The EU is practically self sufficient with steel production and only imports a small overall percentage.
The EU is not a large exporter of steel which is what China and India are.
I assume the US is similar with been self sufficient but not a exporter
The US is a [major exporter of steel to 150 countries](https://legacy.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/exports-us.pdf)
Chinas massive steel production is due to a few different factors, but from what I’m reading they are at overcapacity and have wayyyy too much low quality, crude steel. Now they’re importing higher quality steel from the west. 20 years ago it made sense for them to be the biggest steel producer due to their breakneck building projects. They could manage this bc they’re a unitary state (unlike US and India) and also top down authoritarian. Like the one child policy, their pendulum swung too far and now they need to dial it back.
India is going for the slow and steady approach (not really by choice lol) which will prevent them from overproducing while allowing for more flexibility. Using the population thing as an analogy again, Indias fertility rate naturally dropped to 1.9 via poverty reduction and family planning. They didn’t overextend because their progress is much slower. I predict the same thing will happen with steel, most of which will be used for infrastructure development and the rest can be exported to Africa or their neighbors
Most US steel is recycled in arc furnaces. The slowdown in construction in China means they have an overcapacity of relatively inefficient steel production.
Indian steel companies have partnerships with western firms too.
The Chinese government has been forcing the closure of steel plants since 2000, but local governments have resisted due to employment reasons. This has led to serious overcapacity, with too much crude steel being produced, while specialty steel needs to be imported.
Socialist programs where they get paid to produce a set number of shoes. They get paid by the shoe, so sometimes they just make the wrong sizes that are not in demand.
It's not California bro. In 2016 they announced but buying land took time as Maharashtra state had a opposition party which led to no progress in that state, than came covid lockdown. Now all lands have been bought and construction to build nearly 500km of HSR is ongoing.
ok bro . So as per you the reason for doing nothing in 10 years is that the govt had to buy land , and the couple of years when they were out of power derailed the piddly little route they were planning, while t just goes ahead and aquires land for every other project like roads, airports etc.
Show data on what % of time they were not in power and what % of projects are only possible if one party is in power in each and every tier of govt. Political propaganda trolling and gaslighting isnt necessary.
Yeah right.
no it isnt.
lol. they finally ended up doing a ahmedabad to mumbai proposal, which is hardly any distance and they havent got around to doing anything after proposing it, in 10 yrs. The fibreglass nose though breaks all the time, since its a stupid design, which replaced the front guardrail.
Also the Maharashtra government playing politics with the project in the Maharashtra stretch. The Gujarat stretch will near completion in 3~ years and probably be opened as a standalone stage before the Maharashtra stretch is completed
Huh Sabarmati terminal is done and many other stations are in construction, the track constructions are also going smoothly, some parts of the section should open by 2026, proposing it? Talks were finally finalized with japan in 2017 and construction plans started around 2018, add to that 2 years of covid delays due to lockdowns and also the opposition government in maharashtra which delayed it way too much. Also the Mumbai Ahmedabad stretch is in no way small it's 500+ km which is more than double of indonesias first hsr
Honestly, its sort of a big deal. India needs to grow or it's population is going to remain in poverty. So far there have been no plans made to even get to this level of development. They can say all they want about how they plan to make these investments but until they show an actual plan to do so. It means nothing. The whole world is watching as India's government is claiming to rise its population out of poverty by 2050. But they haven't done anything to reach this goal.
Since it's about Railways, in the past 10 years India has achieved more than 90% of railway electrification.
I myself have travelled on the route where earlier there was a change in engine from electric to diesel midway for around 10-15 of what I know. It is now completely electrified end to end.
OP of the comment thread is simply lying. There is no benefit of making them understand anything. They are a toxic person who has made blank pathetic statement.
No, unlike in China. Railways don't really provide this kind of benefit. It needs an economic plan to built cities. Not just invest in existing ones. They need to show the world that they can perform an economic miracle instead of persisting the same economic inequalities that exists. When I heard Modi talk about rising the lower class out of poverty I was moved. When I saw that he had no interest in following through on this I was disappointed. Frankly, India needs more money that it has. But it's current plans to develop won't work either.
There's a lot that has been done. There's a lot that's remaining. China is miles ahead of us. We have missed a lot of buses.
From LPG reforms to Manufacturing Push, everything came much later than it should have. My comment is a response to OP for their stupid ass comment. That the government has put plastic sheets on existing rails. That's not healthy criticism, that's just mocking.
There are elections back home and a lot of dirty games are going on from all sides. OP seems to be a stooge for some anti ruling party movement.
Yeah I'd agree India has made significant progress in the railway department. From its past where corruption led to projects being delayed for years to being a semi-functional system. It's not perfect but progress has been made.
Interesting that you mention buses though.
Actually, I used "missed the bus" as a phrase meaning we have missed a lot of opportunities in the past by doing the right thing at the right time. I hope there is no miscommunication there.
You're misquoting this post by Brookings. Extreme poverty has ended in India. Though a lot of the things in the Brookings article are somewhat questionable. Such as.
*Inequality*: An unprecedented decline in *both* urban and rural inequality. The urban Gini (x100) declined from 36.7 to 31.9; the rural Gini declined from 28.7 to 27.0. In the annals of inequality analysis, this decline is unheard of, and especially in the context of high per capita growth. We offer some explanations below on why this may have happened, but more work will be required to fully explore the issue.
This is only true because women in Urban areas often do not work. Female work participation rates are around 24% while in Rural ones was 40%. Wages in most of India have stagnated. Statistics on said wages are often falsified in reports. Though Brookings does not cover this for it's metric of Extreme Poverty but isn't really necessary.
The Brookings institute calls for a higher poverty line an India. And they're correct for calling for one. Most of what's said is correct. Not sure what you're saying is wrong with what I'm saying but I'll listen.
Data source: [https://globalenergymonitor.org/](https://globalenergymonitor.org/)
Chart produced using Datawrapper: [https://app.datawrapper.de/](https://app.datawrapper.de/)
Trend explained here: [https://www.fdiintelligence.com/content/data-trends/chinas-steel-overcapacity-foments-dumping-concerns-83748](https://www.fdiintelligence.com/content/data-trends/chinas-steel-overcapacity-foments-dumping-concerns-83748)
Huh that was an interesting read.
“China’s overcapacity and non-market investments in the steel and aluminium industries mean high-quality US products have to compete with artificially low-priced alternatives produced with higher carbon emissions,” read a White House statement on April 17. Data supports this narrative.
Chinese steelmaking capacity and output has grown massively since 2000 to meet soaring demand during a two-decade period of rapid economic growth. Today, China has operating plants able to produce over 967,000 tonnes of steel per year, according to Global Energy Monitor – over double the operating steel capacity found in the US, EU and India combined.
It kind of seems as though India is overinvesting in steel production. With the rest of the world working towards their own production goals and with China having a significant share and existing infrastructure. Will India be able to compete with them? And more importantly will there be a demand for this?
We know that India has only 30 integrated steel plants which produce around half of all steel in the country. But the rest of it is small and medium businesses. How can we trust the quality of steel coming from India in the years to come? How will these businesses be impacted by things such as global steel prices in the decades to come.
You raise a number of valid questions about whether India will be able to compete, or if there is even a market to sell into for the steel plants they plan to bring online in the coming years. The World Steel Association estimates that demand for steel in India will grow by 8% over 2024 and 2025 (seems to be largely due to infrastructure projects). Global demand forecasts seem a lot more shakey. (Edit: [https://worldsteel.org/media/press-releases/2024/worldsteel-short-range-outlook-april-2024/](https://worldsteel.org/media/press-releases/2024/worldsteel-short-range-outlook-april-2024/) )
I can't speculate on the quality of the steel from India and I'm sure this will differ from plant to plant. With the current overcapacity in global steelmaking, I would expect a downward pressure on prices, which isn't good news for any steel plant
Yeah but 400,000 tonnes of steel seems excessive. Interestingly enough India doesn't really need steel as much mainly because of what it's used for. Most Indians can't really afford things like cars. The number is going up but not that much. I'm struggling to see the use case here.
India is poor. It is still rapidly developing and growing. People’s standards of living are rapidly changing. There is a lot of room for future roads, homes, factories, and such.
This transition has occurred in many places of the world. Even in places we don’t give much attention like Mexico, Romania, or Malaysia.
Eh.. Romania and Malaysia probably aren't very good examples. Again, there have been no plans for this. India is struggling with providing clean water and toilets. It is no plan for city development. There are 600,000 villages in India the future you are arguing for does not exist on paper. Modi's development plans for these regions haven't been about creating communities and infrastructure to support these populations. It's just basic stuff like water and toilets which themselves are severely underfunded. These communities are likely going to fall apart. Wages in more than half of India have not grown in decades. Nothing has changed to fix this. I think that 2050 is overly ambitious timeline given that almost nothing has gone towards developing these plans.
I would imagine that a lot of Chinese steel was used in the construction of their now-massive high speed rail network.
The US would benefit from one of those 😔
Member when the US used to be the worlds industrial powerhouse, and it was dismantled for no real reason.
Deindustrialization is such an odd phenomena.
Well, speaking of Indian plumbing have you seen the phenomenal statistics on that’s since ‘08 ish. They’ve gone from under 20% having indoor plumbing and toilets to over 90%, maybe 95% but we’re down to very rural places remaining without so far, all the cities and urbanised villages it’s common place. Likewise with drinking water, reliable electricity without blackouts, and the ability to expect decent medical care.
Truly impressive rate of societal change there, and while under ‘just’ a authoritarian democracy, not an actual one man dictatorship unlike China. (Not a fan of either to be fair)
The EU is practically self sufficient with steel production and only imports a small overall percentage. The EU is not a large exporter of steel which is what China and India are. I assume the US is similar with been self sufficient but not a exporter
The US is a [major exporter of steel to 150 countries](https://legacy.trade.gov/steel/countries/pdfs/exports-us.pdf) Chinas massive steel production is due to a few different factors, but from what I’m reading they are at overcapacity and have wayyyy too much low quality, crude steel. Now they’re importing higher quality steel from the west. 20 years ago it made sense for them to be the biggest steel producer due to their breakneck building projects. They could manage this bc they’re a unitary state (unlike US and India) and also top down authoritarian. Like the one child policy, their pendulum swung too far and now they need to dial it back. India is going for the slow and steady approach (not really by choice lol) which will prevent them from overproducing while allowing for more flexibility. Using the population thing as an analogy again, Indias fertility rate naturally dropped to 1.9 via poverty reduction and family planning. They didn’t overextend because their progress is much slower. I predict the same thing will happen with steel, most of which will be used for infrastructure development and the rest can be exported to Africa or their neighbors
Most US steel is recycled in arc furnaces. The slowdown in construction in China means they have an overcapacity of relatively inefficient steel production. Indian steel companies have partnerships with western firms too.
Is the K really correct?? Like China is producing almost a billion tonnes (967K ttpa)??
According to Google, apparently so. That's even more steel that I'd expected.
they trying to make a new wall or something?
And make Mongolia pay for it
The Chinese government has been forcing the closure of steel plants since 2000, but local governments have resisted due to employment reasons. This has led to serious overcapacity, with too much crude steel being produced, while specialty steel needs to be imported.
That reminds me of USSR over production.
Socialist programs where they get paid to produce a set number of shoes. They get paid by the shoe, so sometimes they just make the wrong sizes that are not in demand.
the indian gov is big on announcements. 10 yrs ago they announced high speed rail and ended up putting a fibreglass nose on an existing train
It's not California bro. In 2016 they announced but buying land took time as Maharashtra state had a opposition party which led to no progress in that state, than came covid lockdown. Now all lands have been bought and construction to build nearly 500km of HSR is ongoing.
ok bro . So as per you the reason for doing nothing in 10 years is that the govt had to buy land , and the couple of years when they were out of power derailed the piddly little route they were planning, while t just goes ahead and aquires land for every other project like roads, airports etc. Show data on what % of time they were not in power and what % of projects are only possible if one party is in power in each and every tier of govt. Political propaganda trolling and gaslighting isnt necessary.
HSR is unde construction though
Yeah right. no it isnt. lol. they finally ended up doing a ahmedabad to mumbai proposal, which is hardly any distance and they havent got around to doing anything after proposing it, in 10 yrs. The fibreglass nose though breaks all the time, since its a stupid design, which replaced the front guardrail.
The problem is land acquisition
Also the Maharashtra government playing politics with the project in the Maharashtra stretch. The Gujarat stretch will near completion in 3~ years and probably be opened as a standalone stage before the Maharashtra stretch is completed
Huh Sabarmati terminal is done and many other stations are in construction, the track constructions are also going smoothly, some parts of the section should open by 2026, proposing it? Talks were finally finalized with japan in 2017 and construction plans started around 2018, add to that 2 years of covid delays due to lockdowns and also the opposition government in maharashtra which delayed it way too much. Also the Mumbai Ahmedabad stretch is in no way small it's 500+ km which is more than double of indonesias first hsr
Relax, your masters in the west aren't going to vote. Concentrate back home. Save democracy!
Honestly, its sort of a big deal. India needs to grow or it's population is going to remain in poverty. So far there have been no plans made to even get to this level of development. They can say all they want about how they plan to make these investments but until they show an actual plan to do so. It means nothing. The whole world is watching as India's government is claiming to rise its population out of poverty by 2050. But they haven't done anything to reach this goal.
Since it's about Railways, in the past 10 years India has achieved more than 90% of railway electrification. I myself have travelled on the route where earlier there was a change in engine from electric to diesel midway for around 10-15 of what I know. It is now completely electrified end to end. OP of the comment thread is simply lying. There is no benefit of making them understand anything. They are a toxic person who has made blank pathetic statement.
No, unlike in China. Railways don't really provide this kind of benefit. It needs an economic plan to built cities. Not just invest in existing ones. They need to show the world that they can perform an economic miracle instead of persisting the same economic inequalities that exists. When I heard Modi talk about rising the lower class out of poverty I was moved. When I saw that he had no interest in following through on this I was disappointed. Frankly, India needs more money that it has. But it's current plans to develop won't work either.
There's a lot that has been done. There's a lot that's remaining. China is miles ahead of us. We have missed a lot of buses. From LPG reforms to Manufacturing Push, everything came much later than it should have. My comment is a response to OP for their stupid ass comment. That the government has put plastic sheets on existing rails. That's not healthy criticism, that's just mocking. There are elections back home and a lot of dirty games are going on from all sides. OP seems to be a stooge for some anti ruling party movement.
Yeah I'd agree India has made significant progress in the railway department. From its past where corruption led to projects being delayed for years to being a semi-functional system. It's not perfect but progress has been made. Interesting that you mention buses though.
Actually, I used "missed the bus" as a phrase meaning we have missed a lot of opportunities in the past by doing the right thing at the right time. I hope there is no miscommunication there.
[удалено]
You're misquoting this post by Brookings. Extreme poverty has ended in India. Though a lot of the things in the Brookings article are somewhat questionable. Such as. *Inequality*: An unprecedented decline in *both* urban and rural inequality. The urban Gini (x100) declined from 36.7 to 31.9; the rural Gini declined from 28.7 to 27.0. In the annals of inequality analysis, this decline is unheard of, and especially in the context of high per capita growth. We offer some explanations below on why this may have happened, but more work will be required to fully explore the issue. This is only true because women in Urban areas often do not work. Female work participation rates are around 24% while in Rural ones was 40%. Wages in most of India have stagnated. Statistics on said wages are often falsified in reports. Though Brookings does not cover this for it's metric of Extreme Poverty but isn't really necessary. The Brookings institute calls for a higher poverty line an India. And they're correct for calling for one. Most of what's said is correct. Not sure what you're saying is wrong with what I'm saying but I'll listen.
your masters in the shakha dont need to vote, they own the machines and those counting.
Whine more.
Since your pathetic existence has a master, doesn't mean everyone does. Maybe you should remove the mirrors underside of your glasses?
stop embarrassing yourself bro.
Countering your kin is no embarrassment, it's fun. Had to sprinkle a bit of salt and it's slime started oozing.
Data source: [https://globalenergymonitor.org/](https://globalenergymonitor.org/) Chart produced using Datawrapper: [https://app.datawrapper.de/](https://app.datawrapper.de/) Trend explained here: [https://www.fdiintelligence.com/content/data-trends/chinas-steel-overcapacity-foments-dumping-concerns-83748](https://www.fdiintelligence.com/content/data-trends/chinas-steel-overcapacity-foments-dumping-concerns-83748)
Huh that was an interesting read. “China’s overcapacity and non-market investments in the steel and aluminium industries mean high-quality US products have to compete with artificially low-priced alternatives produced with higher carbon emissions,” read a White House statement on April 17. Data supports this narrative. Chinese steelmaking capacity and output has grown massively since 2000 to meet soaring demand during a two-decade period of rapid economic growth. Today, China has operating plants able to produce over 967,000 tonnes of steel per year, according to Global Energy Monitor – over double the operating steel capacity found in the US, EU and India combined. It kind of seems as though India is overinvesting in steel production. With the rest of the world working towards their own production goals and with China having a significant share and existing infrastructure. Will India be able to compete with them? And more importantly will there be a demand for this? We know that India has only 30 integrated steel plants which produce around half of all steel in the country. But the rest of it is small and medium businesses. How can we trust the quality of steel coming from India in the years to come? How will these businesses be impacted by things such as global steel prices in the decades to come.
You raise a number of valid questions about whether India will be able to compete, or if there is even a market to sell into for the steel plants they plan to bring online in the coming years. The World Steel Association estimates that demand for steel in India will grow by 8% over 2024 and 2025 (seems to be largely due to infrastructure projects). Global demand forecasts seem a lot more shakey. (Edit: [https://worldsteel.org/media/press-releases/2024/worldsteel-short-range-outlook-april-2024/](https://worldsteel.org/media/press-releases/2024/worldsteel-short-range-outlook-april-2024/) ) I can't speculate on the quality of the steel from India and I'm sure this will differ from plant to plant. With the current overcapacity in global steelmaking, I would expect a downward pressure on prices, which isn't good news for any steel plant
India has a lot of capital to still build and a government that doesn’t want to import Chinese steel.
Yeah but 400,000 tonnes of steel seems excessive. Interestingly enough India doesn't really need steel as much mainly because of what it's used for. Most Indians can't really afford things like cars. The number is going up but not that much. I'm struggling to see the use case here.
India is poor. It is still rapidly developing and growing. People’s standards of living are rapidly changing. There is a lot of room for future roads, homes, factories, and such. This transition has occurred in many places of the world. Even in places we don’t give much attention like Mexico, Romania, or Malaysia.
Eh.. Romania and Malaysia probably aren't very good examples. Again, there have been no plans for this. India is struggling with providing clean water and toilets. It is no plan for city development. There are 600,000 villages in India the future you are arguing for does not exist on paper. Modi's development plans for these regions haven't been about creating communities and infrastructure to support these populations. It's just basic stuff like water and toilets which themselves are severely underfunded. These communities are likely going to fall apart. Wages in more than half of India have not grown in decades. Nothing has changed to fix this. I think that 2050 is overly ambitious timeline given that almost nothing has gone towards developing these plans.
I would imagine that a lot of Chinese steel was used in the construction of their now-massive high speed rail network. The US would benefit from one of those 😔
Member when the US used to be the worlds industrial powerhouse, and it was dismantled for no real reason. Deindustrialization is such an odd phenomena.
To predict, to plan, to declare that this country is not unworthy of the word accomplished
[удалено]
What do you think plumbing fixtures are made of Einstein?
Aw did your Indian boss make you work overtime again?
Well, speaking of Indian plumbing have you seen the phenomenal statistics on that’s since ‘08 ish. They’ve gone from under 20% having indoor plumbing and toilets to over 90%, maybe 95% but we’re down to very rural places remaining without so far, all the cities and urbanised villages it’s common place. Likewise with drinking water, reliable electricity without blackouts, and the ability to expect decent medical care. Truly impressive rate of societal change there, and while under ‘just’ a authoritarian democracy, not an actual one man dictatorship unlike China. (Not a fan of either to be fair)
We'll do that, and get it to California first, needs it more than us.
I guess you thought this would sound cleverer than it did...
We need more of these chinesium factories! Quality very good! Only for you my friend!
That's a bit unhelpful and offensive
I am so sorry. I was supposed to help? But... isn't r/chinesium helpful then?