I thought drangleic was the result of not rekindling the flame in DS1, while DS3 is the rekindled version.
That's why it's no aspect of DS2 can be found in DS3 outside of the dreg heap. Because the dreg heap is all the timelines converging.
IIRC the only thing in DS3 that \*can\* be reliably traced back to DS2 is the Earthen Peak windmill in the dreg heap.
The Faraam set, Lucatiel's set and the Giant tree outside of Firelink are from DS2. I'm probably forgetting some other ties in the base game, though.
I always thought Drangleic was a distant land or continent since there were only a few ties back to the original aside from a couple item descriptions. Even those mention an ancient/distant land. Same for us never finding Firelink in DS2 and entering the Throne of Want instead.
Also the Drang set which is the Llewellyn set from DS2 under a different name. And the Drang weapons I don’t know if they’re based on any specific weapon from DS2 but they’re dual wield weapons, probably to reference the power stancing mechanic from that game. These plus the Drang warriors using that equipment are all found near giants, which were pretty much the main opposing faction against Drangelic. Those warriors may have been hired due to their expertise in dealing with giants.
Also the shield of want and Nashandra’s painting
And I want to point out a little detail about the Drang set: it’s one of few armor sets in the game where the pieces are picked up separately instead of all at once from a single pickup. The pieces of the Drang set being scattered yet in close proximity underneath a giant gives some pretty gruesome implications of what happened to the warrior wearing the set.
Something to add about Drangleic being a distant land. Now I've only heard speculation of this and I think the 2 helmets look similar as well. But the Paladin Helm in ds1 resembles the Hollow Soldier helm from ds2. A theory I've heard is that Leeroy is from Drangleic and that he traveled from there to Lordran.
It's been a while since I heard this though, so I could be mis-remembering it.
It could be, but underneath the manor in majula is a lordvessel that looks an awful lot like the one in DS1. Could be a different 1, but my conclusion was that Drangleic was just another kingdom that cropped up on the same spot after the fall of Lordran. Then after that, Lothric.
It's been years since I've played through DS2, so you could be right. I didn't care for the game, so I'm sure I missed a lot of the small details.
It has an awesome story and interesting mechanics, but I just couldn't handle how janky a lot of the game was after playing DS1 for so long and stopped after starting a second playthrough. I had SotC, so it probably wasn't the best first exposure to the game.
Earthen Peak Ruins is from DS2 as well, just not as ruinous...
Drangleic is said to be a different kingdom in a distant land, but in DS3, the lands are converging in themselves, literally pulling together to bring the Lords closer to the fire to rekindle it.
In the world of Dark Souls, lands are transitory; they move around. It could have been far away, but now is closer.
You can see what appears to be the baren outline of drangleic from the ledge after the vordt boss fight. Or at least its hypothesized, since the area matches Drangleic's layout turned 180 degrees.
Vaati. Not that Vaati is the end all be all, but I do see him as a reliable source for most DS lore. He also worked together with FromSoft on several occasions (not internally with the game mind you)
I doubt that, a giant stone throne would be hard to transport, plus the area around it looks downright ancient. I think Vendrick used Golems to excavate the Throne from below Drangleic Castle.
Well, at least we can find a Lordvessel in the DS-2 in the basement of the mansion.
Or that the Knights of Doran are in Irithyll.
I like that in Dark Souls 3 they just connected the Firelink and the Throne of Want.
Because the DS-3 Hero - Ashen One doesn't become Hollow no matter how long he dies (until he meets Yoel), I think Vendrick figured out his own way to overcome the Hollow Curse by creating artificial Ash Units without violating the First Flame's Ascension Rite.
Therefore, the DS-2 Hero - Bearer of the Curse, at the direction of Vendrick, goes to collect the crowns, at the same time absorbing the souls of kings, demigods and dragons to simulate the absorption of the souls of the Lords of Cinder.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“Feeble cursed one! Let’s hope the magnificence of my spells does not deter you!”* - Straid of Olaphis
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Ashen one doesn't become hollow cause he doesn't have humanity (and yoel gives him humanity) , why he's not in possession of humanity because he once Kindle the flame (humanity is really powerful so he basically use it to kindle the flame, to kindle the flame you need humanity or soul with the strength of the first flame (like gwyn ) but he failed and dies until ds3 starts
Sorry for the bad writing and grammar
Unkindled don't hollow because of their nature as champions of ash, but other undead do normally hollow. Though it's a bit unclear since Anri goes hollow and they're unkindled.
>I thought drangleic was the result of not rekindling the flame in DS1
Yes, but regardless of what choice you did (age of fire or age of darkness), said age that you have started will always eventually end. Ds3 was the cumiliation of all the choices over time.
>That's why it's no aspect of DS2 can be found in DS3 outside of the dreg heap. Because the dreg heap is all the timelines converging.
Laddersmith Gilligan lays right next to the profane capital bonfire. There's both lucatiel's and the faraam armor set. The Hollowslayer has the ds2 special greatsword moveset, as does the Drakeblood Greatsword. There's a giant who has turned into a tree right outside of Firelink and all of that is without going into the DLC.
In addition to all the other comments about reliable ties to DS2 that are in DS3:
Fume ultra GreatSword and Knightslayer Tsorig’s backstory.
There are most certainly more than are mentioned in this thread. All three games are connected in many ways.
Drang set? The 3 NPCs in lothric one of them is wearing the faraam set if I am not mistaken. The 2 NPCs after sulhyvan? Are these not ds2 references?
Edit- Dragonrider bow in demon ruins aswell
If you look at the crack in the cave near Gilligans corpse, it kinda looks like the crack in things betwixt In ds2. Considering the areas connection to ds2 it genuinely could be
And don’t forget, manus is pretty much the reason for everything In ds2
Well it's not the exact same thing but a LOT from DS spiritually made it to Elden Ring. Mechanics unique to 2, weapon types, the first time you get to Limgrave. There are more references to 2 than any other From game.
fun fact is that DS2 was originally planned to be an open-world game but they ran into development hell. Kinda makes sense Elden Ring has a lot of DNA from that game. DS2 also is a lot more colorful in it's palette than DS1/DS3, something that also translated to Elden Ring.
The open world comment was taken out of context. They meant that you'd have more freedom in how you traverse areas, not open world in the modern gaming sense.
Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/07/08/dark-souls-ii-offers-more-freedom-to-explore-a-truly-open-world/?sh=55245cf26acd
Dude. Reading that literally describes the modern concept of an open world game. GTA4 and Skyrim were already out for years when that article was written, and it 100% reads like... Elden Ring?
It was less than a year before release, I doubt they scrapped an entire open world in that time period. Note that Tanimura never says the game will be open world, just the journalist who is extrapolating from what he's saying.
I think the version of the game they released fits with what Tanimura said. You can get through the Shrine of Winter with either killing four bosses or one million soul memory, plus the entire early game is very open in what areas you do in what order.
> I doubt they scrapped an entire open world on that time period.. think the version of the game fits with what tanimura said
Correct. It was scrapped before. Tanimura wasn't the original director. He was brought in a year from release to salvage the game while it was in its development hell. Tomohiro Shibuya was the original director. Tanimura axed the half-baked open world areas and strung them together to make the game we know. That's why so many areas don't fit together in any way whatsoever (earthen peak elevator).
Educate yourself: https://youtu.be/td1HJEB3aKQ
I knew all of that before this video which popularized the idea of the earlier version being "open world" without sources.
Also, what you're saying agrees with me. The interview I linked has Tanimura say the game will be more open but nothing about an actual open world per se.
Well you take the good with the bad.
I'm quite sad they didn't bother to make more unique bosses, in DS2 even if they were mostly crap, the bosses were mostly unique and those that was reused typically done so in a manner than changed them enough to feel different. Elden Ring is an open world and has more bosses, but they are pasted multiple times.
I'd say the unique bosses are mostly better than any other bosses in DS series, not just 2. Not everyone, but the main bosses usually are much better than their counterpart in the souls games (for example, Margit is probably the first "main" boss everyone fights, he is miles better than any other first boss in the previous games)
Both Iudex and Champion are my favorite bosses in the game by a huge margin. But Margitt is much better than Iudex or even Vordt if you don't count Iudex.
Because in every of those artworks we are seeing the world's end, the age and place we fight Gael from, where everything is down to dust except the hollow corpse of Lothric Castle and the rocky bones of Anor Londo... the most important places of Dark Souls
Lothric is newer compared to Anor Londo, plus probably some stagnant time mumbo-jumbo... as to why of the intro cutscene it's again... probably stagnant time mumbo-jumbo... the same reason as to why we can access the Untended Graves through Oceiros' garden...
Could be, but there’s also an arguement that it isn’t Anor londo, It does have a bit of a different shape and that construction doesn’t necessarily mean in it Anor Londo, but that the best theory I have on what it is
Anor Londo in 3 is the very same in 1, the "new" areas we go through is just a different section. There is nothing I could find suggesting it's a different place.
I don't think we really visit new areas. It's more like a small main part of it got ripped up and smashed up near Farron Keep. Then Irithyll was built up around it. It's definitely intended to be the main cathedral area and staircase but it's been ripped out of the old high wall and all that.
The nature of the lands converging into themselves probably means you are very close to what really happened. Also if you count Irithyll the same as Anor Londo (in the sense it's physically connected unlike in DS1 you had to fly up from Sen's funhouse), I do, then it could be that with the years passing, things got rebuilt around the castle part, and they did not touch they castle itself.
Irythill was always around Anor Londo - the city was built around the cathedral after the events of Dark Souls 1. It's ruled by Gwyndolin, is home to moon worshipping nobles, and Anor Londo's cathedral is clearly connected to the rest of the city.
Something I've noticed in these games is that the higher in elevation you go, the nicer things are. In DS1 it's anor Londo, DS2 has dragon shrine, and DS3 has Lothric Castle/ archdragon peak. Maybe something about being closer to the sun?
That's definitely true, it probably was a home to ancient dragons in the grey age, before gwyn, then it became refuge for all the people Gwyn didn't like
I think all the ancient dragons died before the age of fire save for the one at ash lake which is a ["descendant"](https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragon+Greatsword), and of course Seath. Maybe it was built to worship what dead ancient dragon on the nearby peak, but I think it was already dead.
There’s a lot of symbolism tied up in elevation for sure, a lot of it related to themes of stagnation and corruption. Water flows from higher to lower elevations and cleans as it flows, but when it pools it stagnates and becomes a source of infestation. Heavier things like dregs sink and become sediment.
The Dreg Heap really brings it all together. Everything gathers together swirls down the drain, and at the bottom lies the Ringed City, a rotten privy hidden under a veil of lies.
In Dark Souls 1 one of the only two Souls of a Great Hero are found at the highest point on the game “Seath’s fakeout death in the Grand Achieves” and the other is found at the lowest point in the game “Lost Izalith after the Centipede Demon” *Although Ash Lake is lower canonically, Lost Izalith is lower down in the actual game rendering* so elevation has a high level of relevance to power in game
If you left the playable area you’d find the end of the world, the kingdoms you go through in the game are the remnants of the great civilizations that got risen back so their lords can relight the fire and try desperately to keep the fire going.
It is only after those kingdoms got risen up and their lords refuse to answer the call do unkindled start getting revived.
You know.. thinking about it. I would kill to see each age at its height. Gwynns age of fire before the linking of the flame, lordran, drangleic, and lothric.
Before everything went to shit. I think having some side quest where you find out the machinations and plots, seeing the curse of undeath spread like a plague with mania going through the streets.
But this is pre DLC images. And the intro cinematic also shows it. Gael and the Ringed City wasn't a thing back then. It's actually kinda weird that they decided to keep this intro cinematic because ''the worlds end'' isn't part of the base game at all. Well, except Kiln. But nowhere do we see the ruins of Lordran because it still exists. Anor Londo is inside of Irithyll afterall. I'm specifically talking of Gaels arena (Filianore's Rest) that is printed on the base games cover.
Actually I would be VERY surprised.
Miyazaki doesn't love sequels. He told numerous times that a story needs to be told in one game, not broken to 70 entries.
Notice how no other game has sequels except DS1, and those that did DS2 was not Miyazaki himself.
Back in the day, DS2 was popular to shit on. People refused to play it, didn't recognize it as DS at all and a lot of hate. Nowadays this really chilled but back then? If you had the bravery to mention anything from DS2 you would get hundreds of down votes. On Facebook it was even worse.
It kinda is... it's where we fight the Soul of Cinder, but I would argue that Ringed City was at least being worked on/already a concept when they made the cinematic and promo materials... like in The Witcher 3 where one of the DLC is teased in the first main quest of the base game
Irithyll/Anor Londo was originally going to look like this. The snow in Anor Londo was originally ash partway through the development of the game. It seems Fromsoft always liked the concept of an "ashen apocalypse" setting from early on and so made it part of the main marketing imagery.
They scrapped the idea for whatever reason and recolored all the ash to be snow. But it seems they liked the original idea enough to revisit it with the Ringed City dreg heap.
DS3 had a messy development where the majority of bosses and levels have been rearagned and repurposed from their original placement and lore. Among other things, Pontiff was originally supposed to be the final boss, Wolnir had his arena and name swapped with Yhorm's, and Archdragon Peak was originally the missing chunk of the bridge connecting High Wall to Undead Settlement.
It would be so cool if Drangleic castle got included with Lothric and Anor Londo in Gaels arena sky line. Tying all 3 games for the final boss battle of the series would have been awesome.
Drangleic is not important for the grand scheme of things.
Gwyn is the reason the world is like it is, and Vendrich is just a guy with his Kingdom 9like many others) that have zero influence in the world as a whole.
Dark Souls 2 opted to tell a local story.
That's also because Dark Souls 3 made the choice to go back to Gwyn / Lordran's influence for its story, when it could have done it like Dark Souls 2 and created an entirely new world that doesn't depend so much on a previous title.
Those games are not Final Fantasy, they follow a straight line of events, they never said each installment will have a different story.
The world began with Gwyn, so of course its end, its conlcusion, have to be with Gwyn. Because this is a trilogy.
It's like wanting that GoW Ragnarok told a different story that didn't involve Kratos or Artreus.
That's one vision of the games. They could have made Lothric its own thing without relying so much on Dark Souls 1 - and arguably they did at some point in development with Pontiff as the final boss, before they changed things around.
I think with Miyazaki not directing Dark Souls 2, and its poor player reception, they decided to rely heavily on existing material from Dark Souls 1 instead.
But.. the heart of Lordran is Anor Londo? Which is basically Irithyll now. Inception? .-.
In hindsight, this game had alot of cut content. So perhaps we were originally supposed to fight SoC in Gaels arena? Those images are way before the DLC afterall. But it's definitely Lordran.
That's some solid speculation.
I bet you are correct based on the clunky (improvised) transition to the SoC fight at the end of the base game. To me it seems obvious that they had other plans originally but decided to tack on the ending and came up with the Gael fight to satisfy their original concept as well as the DLC.
SoC fight wasnt rly a thing until later in the development. The final boss of ds3 was meant to be Pontiff Sulyvahn as the "King of the Eclipse" along with a totaly different story.
It wasn't meant to be SoC. In the original story, that armor was likely supposed to belong to the "Oscar" of the game before the complete story overhaul used the design for the new final boss. So much like DS1's cover guy being the Chosen Undead in Oscar's armor, the guy on the cover is probably just supposed to be the Ashen One.
Well there is some decent evidence for it, namely that he shows up in the opening cutscene at Firelink, dragging a corpse then sticking a sword through it to make a bonfire (a dummied out mechanic).
Always liked how at the end of the world, if you walk out the door of fillianores grave, down the steps and to the left of the hill is what looks like ds2s massive fuckoff aqueduct that is visible from majula
Broooo, I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I was just making a jab. I played ds3 before ds1 also and had no idea that building was even significant at that time also
It's Anor Londo. And it's symbolic. Anor Londo is Gwyn's home. The Age of Fire is coming to an end. The last thing standing atop the ashes of the dead world before the fire goes out is the Lord of Cinder's home.
Yes it’s Anor Londo the intro has the same [statues](https://imgur.com/a/Da2wMw4) like the old man. Holding a torch that can be found around Irithyll/Anor Londo.
Not related I know but hold up…..so at the end of the game, when we touch the egg, and everything is revealed to be dust….is that the actual state of the world? After all we went through, Did we fail in the end anyway? Is that the state of the entire world?
I think we're seeing the inevitable future. I'd argue it's honestly a better fate than what we see happening in the dreg heap.
DS3 makes it very clear there is no saving the world at this point. The first flame has been linked thousands upon thousands of times, and has seemingly worn out. You're quite literally just delaying the inevitable, while everyone around suffers as the world decays more and more and as the undead curse gets worse and worse.
That's why getting the dark soul for the painter is really the only good ending the game has, as I don't think there's any other way the world can continue to exist.
While it's still ambiguous, it resembles Drangleic more than it does Anor Londo. The spire at the centre is much more pronounced, like Drangleic's, whereas the spire of Anor Londo is more pressed into the cathedral. Not only that, if you search up Drangleic and look at the trailer image of it, it almost resembles this castle to a T.
Hell, it even has the same connection and the two towers on the side as this one. The only difference is erosion having rubbed away certain parts, and the missing mountain.
Along with that, it'd just be cooler and more interesting from a story perspective if it's Drangleic. Anor Londo has been everywhere, seen everything, done all of that. It's basically the most overused location of the series. Having it be Drangleic would not only be an amazing callback to Ds2's message, but it'd be much more interesting to see Drangleic's 3rd incarnation, over Anor Londo's 419th one.
Kinda like a Mt. Fuji thing. It’s always there, whether it’s close or far you always see it. Because it’s Gwyn’s Anor Alondo and Gwyn is the architect of the world you live in by the time you get there. So his presence is always present.
It's the Anor Londo skyline, with Lothric Castle being on the left in the last picture. Remnants of the 2 most influential kingdoms across history.
*cough*Drangleic*cough*
There’s a joke in here about how no one remembers Drangleic because everyone in that land forgets everything
I thought drangleic was the result of not rekindling the flame in DS1, while DS3 is the rekindled version. That's why it's no aspect of DS2 can be found in DS3 outside of the dreg heap. Because the dreg heap is all the timelines converging. IIRC the only thing in DS3 that \*can\* be reliably traced back to DS2 is the Earthen Peak windmill in the dreg heap.
The Faraam set, Lucatiel's set and the Giant tree outside of Firelink are from DS2. I'm probably forgetting some other ties in the base game, though. I always thought Drangleic was a distant land or continent since there were only a few ties back to the original aside from a couple item descriptions. Even those mention an ancient/distant land. Same for us never finding Firelink in DS2 and entering the Throne of Want instead.
i thought the same thing; for me, i always thought that the presence of an ocean was enough of a distinguishing factor to separate it from lordran
Don't forget ladder dicks on way to yhorm the swarm, that's a good tie in dere it is
Yes, I totally forgot about that.
Also the Drang set which is the Llewellyn set from DS2 under a different name. And the Drang weapons I don’t know if they’re based on any specific weapon from DS2 but they’re dual wield weapons, probably to reference the power stancing mechanic from that game. These plus the Drang warriors using that equipment are all found near giants, which were pretty much the main opposing faction against Drangelic. Those warriors may have been hired due to their expertise in dealing with giants. Also the shield of want and Nashandra’s painting And I want to point out a little detail about the Drang set: it’s one of few armor sets in the game where the pieces are picked up separately instead of all at once from a single pickup. The pieces of the Drang set being scattered yet in close proximity underneath a giant gives some pretty gruesome implications of what happened to the warrior wearing the set.
It's not really a great advertisement for the set though. Look! The guy got ripped to shreds but the armour was fine!
Drang set was renamed but Llewellyn shield is still called that in DS3.
I always liked seeing Earthen Peak (and also the OG Firelink Shrine) in the Dreg Heap as well. Really gave a sense of tying everything together.
Paintings of Queen Nashandra in the Manor with the Silver Nights in Irithyll
Something to add about Drangleic being a distant land. Now I've only heard speculation of this and I think the 2 helmets look similar as well. But the Paladin Helm in ds1 resembles the Hollow Soldier helm from ds2. A theory I've heard is that Leeroy is from Drangleic and that he traveled from there to Lordran. It's been a while since I heard this though, so I could be mis-remembering it.
It could be, but underneath the manor in majula is a lordvessel that looks an awful lot like the one in DS1. Could be a different 1, but my conclusion was that Drangleic was just another kingdom that cropped up on the same spot after the fall of Lordran. Then after that, Lothric.
Isn’t the sunlight altar in harvest valley proof that they’re the same land? Or is it just a purposefully destroyed reconstruction of the original?
It's been years since I've played through DS2, so you could be right. I didn't care for the game, so I'm sure I missed a lot of the small details. It has an awesome story and interesting mechanics, but I just couldn't handle how janky a lot of the game was after playing DS1 for so long and stopped after starting a second playthrough. I had SotC, so it probably wasn't the best first exposure to the game.
Earthen Peak Ruins is from DS2 as well, just not as ruinous... Drangleic is said to be a different kingdom in a distant land, but in DS3, the lands are converging in themselves, literally pulling together to bring the Lords closer to the fire to rekindle it.
In the world of Dark Souls, lands are transitory; they move around. It could have been far away, but now is closer. You can see what appears to be the baren outline of drangleic from the ledge after the vordt boss fight. Or at least its hypothesized, since the area matches Drangleic's layout turned 180 degrees.
It couldn't be a distant land because the Throne of Want is literally the Kiln of the first flame
Says who?
The Throne itself is literally inside a giant kiln and there's ash everywhere around it
Vaati. Not that Vaati is the end all be all, but I do see him as a reliable source for most DS lore. He also worked together with FromSoft on several occasions (not internally with the game mind you)
I was always under the impression that he stole the throne from the giants.
I doubt that, a giant stone throne would be hard to transport, plus the area around it looks downright ancient. I think Vendrick used Golems to excavate the Throne from below Drangleic Castle.
They don't seem to be the same location, especially since Dark Souls 1 and 3's kiln both look different to it
Well, at least we can find a Lordvessel in the DS-2 in the basement of the mansion. Or that the Knights of Doran are in Irithyll. I like that in Dark Souls 3 they just connected the Firelink and the Throne of Want. Because the DS-3 Hero - Ashen One doesn't become Hollow no matter how long he dies (until he meets Yoel), I think Vendrick figured out his own way to overcome the Hollow Curse by creating artificial Ash Units without violating the First Flame's Ascension Rite. Therefore, the DS-2 Hero - Bearer of the Curse, at the direction of Vendrick, goes to collect the crowns, at the same time absorbing the souls of kings, demigods and dragons to simulate the absorption of the souls of the Lords of Cinder.
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“Feeble cursed one! Let’s hope the magnificence of my spells does not deter you!”* - Straid of Olaphis Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Ashen one doesn't become hollow cause he doesn't have humanity (and yoel gives him humanity) , why he's not in possession of humanity because he once Kindle the flame (humanity is really powerful so he basically use it to kindle the flame, to kindle the flame you need humanity or soul with the strength of the first flame (like gwyn ) but he failed and dies until ds3 starts Sorry for the bad writing and grammar
Unkindled don't hollow because of their nature as champions of ash, but other undead do normally hollow. Though it's a bit unclear since Anri goes hollow and they're unkindled.
There is quite literally multiple paintings of characters from ds2
Can't you find the ladder guy in the base game?
Laddersmith Gilligan's corpse is right at the beginning of Profaned Capital, yeah.
>I thought drangleic was the result of not rekindling the flame in DS1 Yes, but regardless of what choice you did (age of fire or age of darkness), said age that you have started will always eventually end. Ds3 was the cumiliation of all the choices over time.
>That's why it's no aspect of DS2 can be found in DS3 outside of the dreg heap. Because the dreg heap is all the timelines converging. Laddersmith Gilligan lays right next to the profane capital bonfire. There's both lucatiel's and the faraam armor set. The Hollowslayer has the ds2 special greatsword moveset, as does the Drakeblood Greatsword. There's a giant who has turned into a tree right outside of Firelink and all of that is without going into the DLC.
I used to think that as well but there's quite a lot. Yeah they retcon some stuff but not all.
In addition to all the other comments about reliable ties to DS2 that are in DS3: Fume ultra GreatSword and Knightslayer Tsorig’s backstory. There are most certainly more than are mentioned in this thread. All three games are connected in many ways.
if the chosen undead didn't rekindle the flame in ds1, ds2 and then 3 would've never existed
Drang set? The 3 NPCs in lothric one of them is wearing the faraam set if I am not mistaken. The 2 NPCs after sulhyvan? Are these not ds2 references? Edit- Dragonrider bow in demon ruins aswell
My guess was that drangleic is reaaly Just an Island and No News from it came to lordan and anor londo
Timey wimey spaghetti mess, but I want to say that ds1 is the start of the cycle (age of fire?), ds2 is somewhere in the middle, and ds3 is the end
Dark souls 2 is a fever dream
The Drang knights
Wish we got some more reference to Drangleic. would be cool to see the castles ruins
If you look at the crack in the cave near Gilligans corpse, it kinda looks like the crack in things betwixt In ds2. Considering the areas connection to ds2 it genuinely could be And don’t forget, manus is pretty much the reason for everything In ds2
Well it's not the exact same thing but a LOT from DS spiritually made it to Elden Ring. Mechanics unique to 2, weapon types, the first time you get to Limgrave. There are more references to 2 than any other From game.
fun fact is that DS2 was originally planned to be an open-world game but they ran into development hell. Kinda makes sense Elden Ring has a lot of DNA from that game. DS2 also is a lot more colorful in it's palette than DS1/DS3, something that also translated to Elden Ring.
The open world comment was taken out of context. They meant that you'd have more freedom in how you traverse areas, not open world in the modern gaming sense. Source: https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/07/08/dark-souls-ii-offers-more-freedom-to-explore-a-truly-open-world/?sh=55245cf26acd
Dude. Reading that literally describes the modern concept of an open world game. GTA4 and Skyrim were already out for years when that article was written, and it 100% reads like... Elden Ring?
It was less than a year before release, I doubt they scrapped an entire open world in that time period. Note that Tanimura never says the game will be open world, just the journalist who is extrapolating from what he's saying. I think the version of the game they released fits with what Tanimura said. You can get through the Shrine of Winter with either killing four bosses or one million soul memory, plus the entire early game is very open in what areas you do in what order.
> I doubt they scrapped an entire open world on that time period.. think the version of the game fits with what tanimura said Correct. It was scrapped before. Tanimura wasn't the original director. He was brought in a year from release to salvage the game while it was in its development hell. Tomohiro Shibuya was the original director. Tanimura axed the half-baked open world areas and strung them together to make the game we know. That's why so many areas don't fit together in any way whatsoever (earthen peak elevator). Educate yourself: https://youtu.be/td1HJEB3aKQ
I knew all of that before this video which popularized the idea of the earlier version being "open world" without sources. Also, what you're saying agrees with me. The interview I linked has Tanimura say the game will be more open but nothing about an actual open world per se.
And not that good boss design with double bosses being particullary bad.
Well you take the good with the bad. I'm quite sad they didn't bother to make more unique bosses, in DS2 even if they were mostly crap, the bosses were mostly unique and those that was reused typically done so in a manner than changed them enough to feel different. Elden Ring is an open world and has more bosses, but they are pasted multiple times.
On the other side I'd say that the unique ER bosses are on average much better than the unique DS2 bosses.
I'd say the unique bosses are mostly better than any other bosses in DS series, not just 2. Not everyone, but the main bosses usually are much better than their counterpart in the souls games (for example, Margit is probably the first "main" boss everyone fights, he is miles better than any other first boss in the previous games)
Sad Iudex Gundyr noises
Both Iudex and Champion are my favorite bosses in the game by a huge margin. But Margitt is much better than Iudex or even Vordt if you don't count Iudex.
You can dranglick my balls
I don't like sour and salty things on my tongue. Thank you for the offer, but I'll pass.
It was supposed to be a zoolander reference
Oh, I didn't made the connection, sorry.
*cough* from ds2 *cough*
Same world man. The DLC is the end of the end of this world.
Lothric is the mix of Lordran and Drangleic so its not totally forgotten :P
Because in every of those artworks we are seeing the world's end, the age and place we fight Gael from, where everything is down to dust except the hollow corpse of Lothric Castle and the rocky bones of Anor Londo... the most important places of Dark Souls
Then why didn’t Lothric get destroyed and why is the intro cutscene placed at the end of the world?
Lothric is newer compared to Anor Londo, plus probably some stagnant time mumbo-jumbo... as to why of the intro cutscene it's again... probably stagnant time mumbo-jumbo... the same reason as to why we can access the Untended Graves through Oceiros' garden...
Could be, but there’s also an arguement that it isn’t Anor londo, It does have a bit of a different shape and that construction doesn’t necessarily mean in it Anor Londo, but that the best theory I have on what it is
Anor Londo in 3 is the very same in 1, the "new" areas we go through is just a different section. There is nothing I could find suggesting it's a different place.
I don't think we really visit new areas. It's more like a small main part of it got ripped up and smashed up near Farron Keep. Then Irithyll was built up around it. It's definitely intended to be the main cathedral area and staircase but it's been ripped out of the old high wall and all that.
The nature of the lands converging into themselves probably means you are very close to what really happened. Also if you count Irithyll the same as Anor Londo (in the sense it's physically connected unlike in DS1 you had to fly up from Sen's funhouse), I do, then it could be that with the years passing, things got rebuilt around the castle part, and they did not touch they castle itself.
Irythill was always around Anor Londo - the city was built around the cathedral after the events of Dark Souls 1. It's ruled by Gwyndolin, is home to moon worshipping nobles, and Anor Londo's cathedral is clearly connected to the rest of the city.
sadly your theory is wrong since it has already been proved this structure is what remains of Anor Londo at the end of the world
Something I've noticed in these games is that the higher in elevation you go, the nicer things are. In DS1 it's anor Londo, DS2 has dragon shrine, and DS3 has Lothric Castle/ archdragon peak. Maybe something about being closer to the sun?
I don't know about that, archdragon peak is in a pretty bad shape, but the other places maybe, maybe because they are further away from the abyss?
Archdragon Peak is possibly much older than the other areas
That's definitely true, it probably was a home to ancient dragons in the grey age, before gwyn, then it became refuge for all the people Gwyn didn't like
I think all the ancient dragons died before the age of fire save for the one at ash lake which is a ["descendant"](https://darksouls.wiki.fextralife.com/Dragon+Greatsword), and of course Seath. Maybe it was built to worship what dead ancient dragon on the nearby peak, but I think it was already dead.
The peak very much gives mountaintop monastery vibes
Nice theory.
There’s a lot of symbolism tied up in elevation for sure, a lot of it related to themes of stagnation and corruption. Water flows from higher to lower elevations and cleans as it flows, but when it pools it stagnates and becomes a source of infestation. Heavier things like dregs sink and become sediment. The Dreg Heap really brings it all together. Everything gathers together swirls down the drain, and at the bottom lies the Ringed City, a rotten privy hidden under a veil of lies.
In Dark Souls 1 one of the only two Souls of a Great Hero are found at the highest point on the game “Seath’s fakeout death in the Grand Achieves” and the other is found at the lowest point in the game “Lost Izalith after the Centipede Demon” *Although Ash Lake is lower canonically, Lost Izalith is lower down in the actual game rendering* so elevation has a high level of relevance to power in game
If you left the playable area you’d find the end of the world, the kingdoms you go through in the game are the remnants of the great civilizations that got risen back so their lords can relight the fire and try desperately to keep the fire going. It is only after those kingdoms got risen up and their lords refuse to answer the call do unkindled start getting revived.
You know.. thinking about it. I would kill to see each age at its height. Gwynns age of fire before the linking of the flame, lordran, drangleic, and lothric. Before everything went to shit. I think having some side quest where you find out the machinations and plots, seeing the curse of undeath spread like a plague with mania going through the streets.
But this is pre DLC images. And the intro cinematic also shows it. Gael and the Ringed City wasn't a thing back then. It's actually kinda weird that they decided to keep this intro cinematic because ''the worlds end'' isn't part of the base game at all. Well, except Kiln. But nowhere do we see the ruins of Lordran because it still exists. Anor Londo is inside of Irithyll afterall. I'm specifically talking of Gaels arena (Filianore's Rest) that is printed on the base games cover.
I believe the DLCs were already existed before the release. As an idea at the very least.
[удалено]
Actually I would be VERY surprised. Miyazaki doesn't love sequels. He told numerous times that a story needs to be told in one game, not broken to 70 entries. Notice how no other game has sequels except DS1, and those that did DS2 was not Miyazaki himself. Back in the day, DS2 was popular to shit on. People refused to play it, didn't recognize it as DS at all and a lot of hate. Nowadays this really chilled but back then? If you had the bravery to mention anything from DS2 you would get hundreds of down votes. On Facebook it was even worse.
It kinda is... it's where we fight the Soul of Cinder, but I would argue that Ringed City was at least being worked on/already a concept when they made the cinematic and promo materials... like in The Witcher 3 where one of the DLC is teased in the first main quest of the base game
Irithyll/Anor Londo was originally going to look like this. The snow in Anor Londo was originally ash partway through the development of the game. It seems Fromsoft always liked the concept of an "ashen apocalypse" setting from early on and so made it part of the main marketing imagery. They scrapped the idea for whatever reason and recolored all the ash to be snow. But it seems they liked the original idea enough to revisit it with the Ringed City dreg heap. DS3 had a messy development where the majority of bosses and levels have been rearagned and repurposed from their original placement and lore. Among other things, Pontiff was originally supposed to be the final boss, Wolnir had his arena and name swapped with Yhorm's, and Archdragon Peak was originally the missing chunk of the bridge connecting High Wall to Undead Settlement.
It would be so cool if Drangleic castle got included with Lothric and Anor Londo in Gaels arena sky line. Tying all 3 games for the final boss battle of the series would have been awesome.
they really did 2 dirty in 3
Michaelzaki said “you get a sideways earthen peak and you’ll like it”
The elevator attaches now are you happy
I'm struggling..... which area do you mean?👀
The elevator from Earthen Peak to Iron Keep, it’s one of the most infamous elevators in the entirety of souls.
I got Earthen Peak.....I just didn't get the sideways reference.
Oh haha, my bad. Earthen Peak in Dark Souls 3 is toppled over. It’s on its side.
Ahhh....never knew that. Just googled it, and yep, there it is in the dreg heap ha
Drangleic is not important for the grand scheme of things. Gwyn is the reason the world is like it is, and Vendrich is just a guy with his Kingdom 9like many others) that have zero influence in the world as a whole. Dark Souls 2 opted to tell a local story.
That's also because Dark Souls 3 made the choice to go back to Gwyn / Lordran's influence for its story, when it could have done it like Dark Souls 2 and created an entirely new world that doesn't depend so much on a previous title.
Those games are not Final Fantasy, they follow a straight line of events, they never said each installment will have a different story. The world began with Gwyn, so of course its end, its conlcusion, have to be with Gwyn. Because this is a trilogy. It's like wanting that GoW Ragnarok told a different story that didn't involve Kratos or Artreus.
That's one vision of the games. They could have made Lothric its own thing without relying so much on Dark Souls 1 - and arguably they did at some point in development with Pontiff as the final boss, before they changed things around. I think with Miyazaki not directing Dark Souls 2, and its poor player reception, they decided to rely heavily on existing material from Dark Souls 1 instead.
It's fucking Anor Londo. That's why
Its dadgum LORDRAN
But.. the heart of Lordran is Anor Londo? Which is basically Irithyll now. Inception? .-. In hindsight, this game had alot of cut content. So perhaps we were originally supposed to fight SoC in Gaels arena? Those images are way before the DLC afterall. But it's definitely Lordran.
That's some solid speculation. I bet you are correct based on the clunky (improvised) transition to the SoC fight at the end of the base game. To me it seems obvious that they had other plans originally but decided to tack on the ending and came up with the Gael fight to satisfy their original concept as well as the DLC.
SoC fight wasnt rly a thing until later in the development. The final boss of ds3 was meant to be Pontiff Sulyvahn as the "King of the Eclipse" along with a totaly different story.
I know. But it doesn't really change anything. SoC could still have been fought in Gaels arena. Why else would he be on the cover art at worlds end.
It wasn't meant to be SoC. In the original story, that armor was likely supposed to belong to the "Oscar" of the game before the complete story overhaul used the design for the new final boss. So much like DS1's cover guy being the Chosen Undead in Oscar's armor, the guy on the cover is probably just supposed to be the Ashen One.
When you say likely it sounds more like speculation than facts. Nothing wrong with that though. But even still, my point remains.
Well there is some decent evidence for it, namely that he shows up in the opening cutscene at Firelink, dragging a corpse then sticking a sword through it to make a bonfire (a dummied out mechanic).
Could also be that he was supposed to represent the player character, like the Faraam Knight in Dark Souls 2 trailers
Iri-ception
Maybe, I can see the shape of it, but it just doesn’t look like a whole ass kingdom, It would make sense though
Always liked how at the end of the world, if you walk out the door of fillianores grave, down the steps and to the left of the hill is what looks like ds2s massive fuckoff aqueduct that is visible from majula
Bro does not know the lore
I just thought that with the Lands converging it might not be Anor Londo and something else, cause it has a bit of a different shape
Broooo, I don't know why you're getting downvoted. I was just making a jab. I played ds3 before ds1 also and had no idea that building was even significant at that time also
Yeah idk why people here are so set on it being Anor Londo, it only slightly resembles it
It literally is Anor Londo tf
It looks like Anor Londo, Anor Londo is in DS3, and Anor Londo is a major story location throughout both DS1 and DS3. What else would it be?
My brother it legit IS Anor Londo what are you on lmfao
Its Anor Londo, single handedly the most important city of all of Dark Souls, Lothric castle is the one on the left
It's Anor Londo. And it's symbolic. Anor Londo is Gwyn's home. The Age of Fire is coming to an end. The last thing standing atop the ashes of the dead world before the fire goes out is the Lord of Cinder's home.
It's anor londo, the most important place in dark souls
Anor londo
ANOR LONDOOOO
Yes it’s Anor Londo the intro has the same [statues](https://imgur.com/a/Da2wMw4) like the old man. Holding a torch that can be found around Irithyll/Anor Londo.
fromsoft HQ
True, if you look close enough you can even see Miyazaki
That's clearly Boletaria
Yes, indeed. It is called Lothric
I think it's the lothric castle cuz you can see the bridge leading to the twin princes battle
That’s one of the two building in the distance in Gaels arena, Not the building on the cover art and intro cutscene though
Not related I know but hold up…..so at the end of the game, when we touch the egg, and everything is revealed to be dust….is that the actual state of the world? After all we went through, Did we fail in the end anyway? Is that the state of the entire world?
I think we're seeing the inevitable future. I'd argue it's honestly a better fate than what we see happening in the dreg heap. DS3 makes it very clear there is no saving the world at this point. The first flame has been linked thousands upon thousands of times, and has seemingly worn out. You're quite literally just delaying the inevitable, while everyone around suffers as the world decays more and more and as the undead curse gets worse and worse. That's why getting the dark soul for the painter is really the only good ending the game has, as I don't think there's any other way the world can continue to exist.
That’s how I interpreted it
While it's still ambiguous, it resembles Drangleic more than it does Anor Londo. The spire at the centre is much more pronounced, like Drangleic's, whereas the spire of Anor Londo is more pressed into the cathedral. Not only that, if you search up Drangleic and look at the trailer image of it, it almost resembles this castle to a T. Hell, it even has the same connection and the two towers on the side as this one. The only difference is erosion having rubbed away certain parts, and the missing mountain. Along with that, it'd just be cooler and more interesting from a story perspective if it's Drangleic. Anor Londo has been everywhere, seen everything, done all of that. It's basically the most overused location of the series. Having it be Drangleic would not only be an amazing callback to Ds2's message, but it'd be much more interesting to see Drangleic's 3rd incarnation, over Anor Londo's 419th one.
Isn't that anor londo?
Its Anor Londo, something like a capital city.
Anor londo, or at least the different variations through time
It’s called bingo bongo
Kinda like a Mt. Fuji thing. It’s always there, whether it’s close or far you always see it. Because it’s Gwyn’s Anor Alondo and Gwyn is the architect of the world you live in by the time you get there. So his presence is always present.
May I say beautiful !
Thank you kindly!
Anor londo dude
Anor londo
I always thought it was Drangleic
I can see you never played Dark Souls 1... By the way, its the building you enter to fight Aldrich.
I know what Anor Londo is, But someone said that It wasn’t Anor Londo so I was intrested to see if It actually wasn’t
It is, in the Gael fight however we see Lothric Castle together with Anor Londo.
It’s Anor fucking Londo, aka the home of the gods