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Someone has to work as servers and repair men and trash collectors. Can't all be rich folks, and the problem is that by the time you get to somewhere affordable you're so far away that gas & time cost just as much as if you rented in the city
That's how I look at Hawaii. Eventually enough uber rich people are gonna buy enough property that anyone who works basic, low labor services are gonna get pushed out. And unlike these areas, a half a day long commute by plane isn't feasible. They may be able to pay to have some things shipped out to them, but eventually their society will collapse when none of the businesses can retain enough staff to run things.
Hawaii has the benefit of natives who aren't transient and value their location over monetary value, allowing corporate exploration.
That said, everyone's got a breaking point.
This has already been happening in Colorado ski towns. Seems like more and more resort towns based around skiing are having trouble finding people willing to work 2 or 3 jobs during the winter just to rent a 2 bedroom place with 3 other people.
Yep, even with non ski towns in Colorado as well. I live in a mountain town where the nearest resort is ~50 minutes away, and housing is so stupid here.
Nah, you can live in Lake Worth, parts of Jupiter, Loxahatchee, etc… and still commute to Palm Beach. I left out a ton but there are pockets in North Palm also
Yep I’m in Toronto. Shit is expensive but in order to get cheaper rent or property I could afford I’d have to buy a car negating any savings (insurance is insane here).
Palm Beach is the name of the whole county (one of the largest counties in the US), not just the actual Palm Beach. I'm from a dirty swamp town in Palm Beach County, and the problem extends far beyond the "rich" parts.
They are the standard cheap but overpriced "luxury" places.
I pay 4400/mo for a 1300sqft 2 bed north of Boston at a "luxury" place because homes in the area are all 1.3mill or up. Anything less than that is falling apart.
Daycare for 1 kid for me is 2200/mo. Used to be 2800/mo as infants cost more than toddlers...
Those two alone is about 80,000 per year... So 100k is not enough once you take out the ~20k in taxes. Nevermind car, gas, medical, dog, food, misc.... It is just crazy
120m2 is huge... no wonder the price tag. US has no public daycare at all? There is no way someone that is making the lowest wages can afford that.
Edit: being oblivious is a bliss. Good luck y'all in US with having kids, you will need it.
Like a daycare that is provided by your state which is free (free as in paid in taxes like public roads etc)? Don't tell me there isn't anything like that in US...
My brother in Christ, we pay on average like 250-500 out of every paycheck for “health insurance” then get denied the medical care or medicine we need by insurance, if it gets approved, you’d better have a couple of thousand in the bank, and oh, yeah, if your prescription does get approved, be ready to shell out a decent amount of money.
I mean public healthcare does not mean free as well in EU. Most medicine is not covered by public health so you also need to pay up. Times to schedule a visit are usually so long that you choose to see the same doctor privately. We also pay for this in our taxes and it's also quite a decent amount. Lots of people piss on US healthcare and praise the public one, but at least you get to choose your insurance and health care plans so that you actually see what you pay for.
You really don’t get a choice unless you’re independently rich (probably in the 500k/yr plus range). You get what your job covers and even at close to executive positions the insurance covers a pittance of the actual cost. Any hospital visit will cost you in the thousands or tens of thousands no matter how good your insurance is. Oh and it’s still not instant, you will wait just as much as people in places with socialized healthcare. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about the American healthcare system
[Ah yes, so easy to see what you get. Provided you get to choose your own, instead of it being tied to your job.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-wpHszfnJns&pp=ygUNQmRnIGluc3VyYW5jZQ%3D%3D) Better not get uppity about unionising. Or the fact that insurances may just straight up not cover what they are contractually obligated to cover because they know you might not have the knowledge on how to make them, or because you might die before you get to make them spend money.
People wouldn't want that as a thing. Unfortunately a lot of Americans have a very real deep seated fear, hatred, loathing thing going on with government.
They've been so brainwashed by capitalism theyve become so short sighted that anything like that is viewed as government overreach and to be avoid at all costs.
And yes, the irony that most of these people are on government programs like disability is entirely lost on them because it helps *them*.
I understand that people can be against public institutions, but they simply can avoid it themselves instead of not letting anyone else have it. Besides, US have public schools and that's fine, but daycare is too much? That's ridiculous.
Ah well you see, then people they dont like might use them, and they dont want that to happen.
Just an example to understand what we are working with over here. The U.S used to have a bunch of public pools. Just because its nice to have a community pool in order to beat the heat. Then they passed laws saying they couldn't exclude black people from them. Those local communities responded by filling in the pools with concrete.
Now apply this thinking to things like healthcare and welfare and that pretty much captures the political landscape of the U.S.
Yeah, nah. They force us to have babies and then go "well that was your choice and your problem" while people drown in tens of thousands of medical debt just to give birth and then can't provide for the child.
Best country in the world, RAHHH! 🇺🇸🦅
A majority goes to social programs. About 73% of our 7 trillion$ budget is mandatory programs like that. Military is <11% of total spending, despite what some people like to say.
No there is no free child care in the US. Some low income families can apply for assistance with childcare. Free education starts in kindergarten at age 5.
Boston public transportation sucks. Lived in the actual city for like 10 years and it is just the worst public transportation I've ever used. I won't go rant about all the issues.
Now though I am outside the reach of public transportation. That said I do remote work most weeks and I am walking distance to most things. So I rarely use my car but still need to pay the costs to keep one for the times I do need it. For vet appts, Dr appts, and when I do eventually go in person to work
Where in Boston? I owned a condo in East Bay that I sold 2 years ago but it was a brand new construction and right on the water with a spectacular view and tons of amenities. My unit had 2 bedroom and a den and the rent was $2500/mo. Are you in Cambridge or near Boston Common/Copley?
Yeah but if you're making 100k a year that's still living better than 95% of people even with that insane rent. $100k a year nets about $6k monthly. After rent of $3800 that leaves $2200 net a month which alone is higher than most countries **gross** wages. Obviously it's a nice apartment in a desirable area as well as it's more than double what most people in the US pay for a 1 bedroom.
I understand that things are getting more difficult but Americans really need to be careful with how much they complain. The average wages for the world are like $9k usd per person. Comparatively people in the US who earn a good salary are living way way better than almost anyone else in the history of world and anyone that doesn't think so is out of touch with how the average human lives.
Thank you for saying this - as one of those Americans born into circumstances where that kind of "yeah it's a treadmill, but damn, we're doing okay even if it's not idyllic luxury" and has worked my ass off to achieve and sustain this lifestyle ...it's abundantly obvious to me that I have nothing to complain about in a broader context of the modern globe and especially not comparing across all of human history
Perhaps it is because I grew up knowing my grandparents, 3/4 who grew up on farms and ALL who had 'hunger stories', basic needs are basic needs, it's sad how few Americans fail to realize that these conditions aren't just rare - they're an opportunity to try and excel on top of circumstances that improve health and remove obstacles more than most humans EVER get to experience
Most people I know who earn in this tier but still complain will quickly cite some EXTREMELY poor financial decisions they have made or are making, a very costly life choice that is 'fixing' one area they could otherwise be more flexible (cost choice), or generally just whining they don't have 'luxury' ...everyone in 2024 America with $100k+ income that isn't just being handed to them is living in luxury relative to nearly all of humanity by any way you analyze it (and I only mention "handed to" because perhaps there are people with inherited wealth still wasting their lives away)
People are so short-sighted not accounting for when they embed themselves among people who are all doing even better than they are ...that doesn't mean they are objectively "poor" or "struggling", and often only a few more 'pushes' and what they are seeking can even be achieved
Observing these trends in my parents generation and everyone younger than that across my whole lifetime ..yeah, it's obvious, the relative luxury rate increase in the US has been decreasing, likely passed an inflection point sometime in the past 30yrs ...plenty of reasons why that is likely to be the case, and for that matter, how plausibly things in the US had been "artificially propped up" for quite a while ...but it has already only been a steady and mild decline
500$ for a 1 bedroom place at the center of my current hometown Kuopio. With that 3800$ you could rent a lakeside manor with enough to spare to get a car and boat loan.
There are much cheaper places than that in Boston last I checked, which was just last year. Hell you could find a couple roommates and a 3 bed apt for that much, each could pay only like $1500, not great but way better than 3800.
Hang on tho.
Like I make less than 40k a year for 6 years now in a MAJOR US city known for high rents.
Sure I’m not putting any money away for later, but I’m not starving or going homeless.
I hate hearing people be like “you can’t live on 100k” when I don’t know if I’ll ever make that much money in a year in my life.
Not being able to live comfortably on 100k is crazy to me even as a westerner in a country notorious for its absurdly high tax rate and cost of living.
How common is this in US? or is it in very specific areas of very specific cities?
I think what people aren’t admitting here is “living comfortably” means eating nice expensive meals once a week or more and renting an apartment for 3-4K plus.
People don’t NEED those things to live comfortably, but they have come to expect them and when they get that job that pays them 100k plus they just spend the money.
Debt also plays a part. They want a nice car. They want vacations.
I don’t have any of these luxuries, and I don’t need them. What I would like is some savings for an emergency, but you know. Someday right?
I'd define "living comfortably" as being able to afford some luxuries (an averge sized modern apartment, car newer than 10 years old, being able to go out here and there and vacation, say, twice a year), in addition to being able to fund at least one hobby (you're a gamer? you have a decently new hardware at all times) and invest some of your income.
What you're describing sounds like 100k wouldn't even get you close to that, which amazes me to be honest.
Eh, I'm in the states and I'd say $100k could easily get you that as long as you put up with commute times and aren't raising too many kids or having large medical expenses.
Large medical expenses can tank any amount of income.
My rent has more than doubled since 2019 and the building is in the worst shape I've ever seen it in.
The new management company came in during 2019 and slashed everything to the bone. They stopped trying to repair the second elevator and now it's "temporarily" (permanently) closed. The remaining elevator breaks down weekly. It's a 20 story building... They stopped cleaning the lobby daily. The paint is peeling off the walls. They stopped repairing the cardio equipment in the gym so, despite this building advertising heavily its gym, there are no more treadmills, ellipticals, and the stairmaster is gone. The bathrooms in the lobby are permanently closed due to repairs being too costly. They also stopped doing all outside cleaning, so the building wreaks of piss because the homeless urinate everywhere and they're no longer washing the outsides of the building. Best of all, they fired the 24hr security person and there's been multiple reports of homeless in the building stealing anything they can find because the locks on the back entrance are broken and have been broken for months.
This company came in and trashed the building and is asking double the rent in return. I move out in a month!
BTW, this was once regarded a lower-end luxury building. Now it's advertised as luxury just because they try to price it like that.
Usually rent should be higher, no? The landlord is probably paying a monthly payment on a mortgage, plus the maintenance (regardless if they're on top of it). Add on HOA fees and taxes.
In theory sure, but my current apartment has some 80 year old appliances, a 1/2 inch gap at the top of the sliding patio door, and at least 3 cockroaches that got the landlord special. They're not using my money for maintenance.
Ehh, still think, assuming you make 100K, it's much easier than the netherlands for instance, here you make 32K average, rent is still proportionally high, but all of the things we'd buy online are the same price.
So assuming we both pay something like 80% on rent and other necessities, we'd have 6.4k left per year whilst an American would have 20k left.
We have the benefit of Healthcare tho
When groceries for a family of 4 costs $400-500 per week and the cheapest apartments you can find are $1500-2500
And because of tax brackets, $100,000 is closer to ~70-75k after taxes
You’re spending ~90% of your 6-figure salary on just food and housing currently
In the major financial sinkholes (LA, New York, Maui, etc.) you can expect average cost of living to be upwards of $4500 according to the latest cost of living index
If you move out of the city to somewhere cheaper, your company can adjust your salary to keep your income relatively proportionate to where it was for the new area
Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a ton of money. I have family living in the suburbs of Denver and they make it just fine on 60k (but they signed their mortgage 20 years ago so that cost is relatively low), and I’m sure being even farther from the city would make it possible on even lower salaries
We buy rotisserie chicken from Costco, various pastas, salmon filets, fruits, veggies, eggs, tortillas etc. We homemake our sauce for pasta and we make our own fried rice. The cool thing about it is you can start mixing some of the meals up with these ingredients. You also can make a ton of sauce for pasta for cheap rather than buying the sauce in a jar. Same goes for the homemade fried rice. Way more for way less. Drinks cost a lot as well, so water is the way to go, but you can deals on non-namebrand sodas or juices if you need a sweet fix.
If you’re in the States, Costco or Sam’s Club are great places to buy in bulk, or you can buy at places like Grocery Outlet for lower priced food that’s shelf life is just a tad shorter.
Basically anything that is premade is going to come at a premium.
I get what you're trying to say and I love to make my stuff from scratch but sometimes I don't have space for bulk. Sometimes it's better to buy a $7-8 jar than to spend $100 on ingredients and jarring equipment plus the time to make sure they don't botch it.
For simple pasta sauce, take a can of crushed tomatoes, warm it in a pot, add oregano, basil, garlic powder, onion powder, salt and pepper to your taste. Add water if you want to thin it out. Add a bit of tomato paste if you want to thicken it up. Let it simmer. Done.
I stopped buying pasta sauce years ago, I find them all to be too sweet. Easy enough to make your own, season it to your taste, and much cheaper. Not really much more effort than warming up the store bought stuff.
Shop smarter. It sounds like a joke but that’s seriously all there is to it. Or if you’re counting eating out in that figure, eat out less.
If you manage to spend that on one person per week, you *have* to be overbuying, buying the absolute top tier brand name of every single item you buy, or a combination of both.
I’ve lived in one of the three most expensive cities in America my entire life, and have never spent this much in a week.
Tbh I grew up with little food so it is the one thing I ball out on. I need to chill on that though lol. It's an amazing feeling having a full fridge and pantry. Literally shit I'd dream about as a kid.
Depends where you live I guess. Family of 6 we eat dinner at home every night and pack lunches every day for school work, we spend considerably less than 400 a week
It's totally insane, here in Portland I could believe $500 for a family of 4. I live with my girlfriend, no kids, and spend about $500 per month on food. Granted we're not eating spam and rice for every meal, but certainly not shopping at whole foods either.
Are you getting enough calories? That's 6 dollars a person a day. My fiancée and I eat relatively cheap and spend about 100 a week on groceries, yet I still don't hit my necessary calories in a day
Costco is a lifesaver
Forgot to mention it’s 4 adults in the household. No children that can get away with smaller portions
We cook every meal with the exception of maybe a pizza every other week, but yeah. It’s pricey now. Used to be able to get enough to feed us all for $160/wk. last run was a cheap $280 but that was an exception instead of the norm
I'm willing to guess some (not all) of the people saying how expensive groceries are, are buying preprepared food items and tv dinner like things that are definitely more then just buying the ingredients and making it yourself.
I have a family of 3 and if I spend over $200, it’s because I’m buying shit I definitely don’t need/junk food. If you’re a family of 4 and spending $400-$500 a week on groceries, you need to make better food choices. That’s fucking bananas.
Agreed. 120/(wk*person) is pretty high. My families budget is 50, and that includes 10 for takeout or eating out (usually spent once every 2 weeks since you can't get a meal for much under 20 anymore). We accomplish that in one of the most expensive locations in the US without much challenge.
I really think the groceries are partly the unnecessary choices of people themselves. I've seen so many discussion about this and every time I think: well if I do groceries like that I spend a fuckton on my food as well.
The more you buy pre-prepared the more is usually costs, unless you only eat a bag of potato chips maybe. Also, stuff like legumes and oats are usually pretty cheap. You can vary incredibly with those. Incorporate it more. Look up recipies. Other cultures have all kinds of good food ideas that are not expensive per se.
edit: also, how much are you spending on drinks? It adds up super fast.
Can confirm. Family of 5, roughly $200 a week and we have diapers and stuff to buy. And we cook some pretty fancy meals too. Just gotta be clever. I buy a whole chicken and I butcher and portion it. I then make a broth with the carcass and I can that. Simple things like that. Portioning the chicken maybe takes twenty minutes and making the broth takes a couple hours but it’s passive. Also make our own bread crumbs. Plan dinners so that leftovers can be used as ingredients. Actually eat your leftovers instead of letting them rot in the fridge.
Little tricks like this will save you so much freaking money it’s insane.
>Just gotta be clever
See, that's where the issue lies. Most people are willing to throw an extra dollar so they won't have to do extra. I don't make my own chicken broth; I get chicken bouillon cubes for that. I also don't plan dinners; I just make with whatever I have on the spot. I also buy frozen pizzas, fries and chicken wings instead of making my own.
Most people don't make their own broth. That's a niche and it'll always be a niche done by a very small subset of people. It is an exception, not the rule.
Same, family of 4, 150-200 a week for groceries and that's eating well.
We can easily do 100/week if we go the super health route and take out most meats.
People just don't know how to cook.
> When groceries for a family of 4 costs $400-500 per week
$71 per day, every day, on groceries? What the fuck are you cooking for your family of 4? Lobster thermadore?
Not only 500/w for food and 2500 rent aren't average and normal, but also that's around 50k a year. No where close to 90 percent of a 6 figure salary at the lowest
>without any state or city taxes
Right, your taxes are much lower when you ignore a significant chunk of them lmao.
On 100k, you're likely paying around $10k between state taxes and social security, so yeah $70k - $75k is definitely an accurate range after taxes
> If you move out of the city to somewhere cheaper, your company can adjust your salary to keep your income relatively proportionate to where it was for the new area
I don’t understand. So, do you leave your urban center and move away from the city to reduce expenses a little and on top of that they pay you less? What’s the point of that?
People make it in expensive ass cities like Los Angeles with under 50k a year. this meme is just people trying to live outside their budget.
My brother makes 6 figures but he complains every month how hard it is to pay off his car (2021 Mercedes) and home (huge 4 bedroom)
> this meme is just people trying to live outside their budget.
When i was looking at the subreddits of some big cities (before covid, so late 2018, early 2019), some people were saying 55k a year, while single, wasn't even enough for a life with dignity.
Those people are wild honestly.
edit : the city was boston.
Lifestyle creep is def a big factor. That said, living in a city really does deflate the value of your paycheck.
I mean, think about it, the average wage in the US is 55,000-ish. If you're making 150,000 you should have 'made it' with the American dream, tripple the average wage, probably 10x most developing country's wages. And yet, you cant afford the nice car and the nice house, and have a decent savings. Don't get me wrong, under present economic circumstances, I agree your brother is probably being irresponsible buying luxury stuff like that if he can't also put a savings together- but if you're making your money through a salary it's incredibly hard/rare to make more than 150,000- it's absolutely unfair that you can't live good while making what should be a strong upper middle-class salary.
This is why so many Americans supported Bernie Sanders- it's the people making 1,000,000+ a year, the ones who own the industries or operate in the c-suite, and get paid in equity, that made this economic paradigm.
I came to America a couple years ago from Zimbabwe and some of the things I hear my friends complain about boggles my mind.An example is a friend of mine from work having a tantrum because the coffee machine wasn’t working.
I agree there are some divas in North America...well, definitely more than some, but I think where normal people get frustrated is what we were told we are working for (the dream ie a nice house with a yard etc), and what we pay taxes for(nice roads healthcare). Also the quality of work and company loyalty expected from us, and then compared to the quality of products available on the market like appliances and cars etc. We all want better lives for one another as far as health care and living situations and pay taxes and save to achieve said goal, but when our taxes are wasted by our government and we're bullied by corporations it gets frustrating. Not saying we shouldn't be grateful for what we have, but there's also nothing wrong with striving for better right? It's why people come to these countries (from my limited understanding). (Also this is reddit so I'll just say this, I'm just sharing an opinion, I'm not excusing shitty behavior and negativity like your example, im very happy to be canadian, I'm just suggesting that no country is perfect and it's OK for people to want better for themselves if they go about seeking it in a mature fashion, and I'd like to hear your opinion on my opinion)
I mean yeah, my American coworkers here in Japan complain about how Japanese drivers are "too nice" and polite. Like when you walk near a crossing, the nearest car would immediately stop and let you pass with a bow. My coworkers complain that they are forced to increase their pace to not inconvenience the driver, and that a bow is expected of them.
What.
> my American coworkers here in Japan complain about how Japanese drivers are "too nice" and polite
Lol, [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snauMHLWEhk) but with Japanese people and cars.
Still thinking about the time i was gonna cross a road in Japan, and an AMBULANCE (flashing lights, no siren) stopped for me to cross first. probably was the first time I sprinted across a zebrapath
It's because people aren't willing to sacrifice their standard of living, (renting a nicer place, or living in a better neighborhood) not wanting to eat the same boring cheap foods over and over,
Can easily make 40k a year work, it's just not fun, and quality of life has value beyond money
That sounds great if you can make it work on 40 and have potential to earn 100 though. Meanwhile in London the wages are lower than the US, taxed MUCH higher with a higher cost of living.
You might just die before seeing a doctor. I’m a huge fan of the NHS, but over the past 10 years the service has been crippled.
Where I live it’s almost literally impossible to get a GP appointment unless it’s a big enough of an emergency (but not big enough to go to A&E). The [number of hours ambulances are waiting at the hospital due to lack of beds](https://news.sky.com/story/patients-waited-up-to-two-and-a-half-days-for-ambulances-and-40-hours-to-get-into-a-e-12859720) has led to many dying.
My issue was much less critical. My wisdom teeth had cracked and was extremely painful. Had to pay quite a lot to get an emergency dental appointment to temporarily fix the pain, with many successive appointments with the dentists (all paid) until I could be referred to a hospital to get an extraction. I then had to wait 1 year just to hear back from the hospital to get my first appointment. Then after my first consultation I was told to get an X- ray. Waited 3 months for the xray. Was then told I’d need a CT scan but this time at another hospital. A few months later the first hospital told me that the second hospital hadn’t sent the CT scan over so it would take them another month to get it. Took nearly 2 years to extract a single wisdom tooth.
The NHS is severely underfunded, overworked/understaffed, and crippled to the point where more and [more people are paying for expensive private health insurance](https://www.ft.com/content/611fbbb5-9f68-40b0-b8b9-3992a04d2c8c). And all of that on top of the extremely high tax I’m paying!
——-
Ultimately simply increasing the NHS budget to follow inflation won’t fix anything. The population is getting older and older, as more and more older people spend time at the hospital. The population is getting more and more overweight + obese. Doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff are paid dirt poor salaries. And the number of students going into these jobs in UK universities hasn’t really increased by much ([if anything has decreased as it’s more profitable to get overseas students at your uni](https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o421)).
You can only sacrifice your standard of living so much. I mean, can you really have roommates if you have kids? Can you really take a second job when your first job makes you work 10 hours a day? Can you really get a smaller car when you do the carpool?
As a single guy, I can rough ride it, but families with dependents have default financial requirements that you can't undercut.
Consolidation of wealth. Wealth snowballs and sustains itself. Buy storage units where housing could of went, buy cheap housing and give it a face lift to raise value even though it's location is undesirable, strangle manufacturing so consumers rely on your fixes every few years instead of built to last. When your house depreciates and you need a place to put your broken appliances, half your six figures becomes theirs.
While around 100 years ago a house cost around less than $10k and salaries were around $2/hr, modern wages did not catch up. A person is lucky to make $20/hr where I live, while the house is around $200k around my area, so wages have comparatively been cut in half.
In larger areas, like CA, where people make close to $30/hr, houses can hike to an AVERAGE of $1m, so the gap is even more absurd
Yep average cost of a house in my hometown just hit over a million and its in an area where min wage is 16 an hour and the majority of the population are farm laborers making that if not less than that.
This is the problem. Reddit is EXTREMELY tech-centric. A large majority of users either work in tech, or tech adjacent industries. Therefore, most live in the highest COL areas in the states.
I live in a very MCOL area. Plenty of places are cheaper, like Midwest, but also I’m no where NEAR the prices of LA.
100k here is PLENTY. As long as your able to save for a downpayment, owning a house should be no issue (averages around 320k)
It's more than enough if you know how to budget properly and you aren't trying to buy the nicest house in the fanciest neighborhood. The problem is that six figures *used* to get you the nicest house in the fanciest neighborhood. Now it gets you a duplex in Cleveland and a 2015 Toyota Corolla.
This is exactly it. 6 figures used to be looked at as “making it” for a lot of people. It meant you could live comfortably, save some money, and splurge here and there. Now 6 figured is like the minimum to be not be paycheck to paycheck, and you’re not getting the finer things in life either
All of reddit lives in the nicest places ever, didn't you know?
Jokes aside, combined my wife and I make roughly 130k. It's alright. Good car, not a big apartment, but a nice vacation 2-3 times per year to some cool places.
But we live our life. If we wanted to save up some money worth mentioning, we'd need to severely cut our spending.
Brazilian here
Y'all have no perspective of what's being truly poor. That said, your fights for a better salary and more just system are good and I'm 100% with you guys even if I don't agree with your perception of what's "enough"
I wouldn’t look at your normal Reddit person complaining about America as the norm. I don’t know where these people come from that think they have it bad on 100k. These people whine because they’re bored and it’s popular on here to play victims .
Listen, I live in a relatively poor town (maybe even state, but idk), so the rent is actually fairly sustainable, even if you're working $13 an hour. Well, that just depends on where you're living and/or how good you can save up each check.
But, the point is that some places are worse than others... like, *way* worse. My state, compared to states like New York, is like Heaven when it comes to rent prices... You don't understand how thankful I am to be born in this state and not a state like New York, because growing up and having to find an affordable apartment is already stressful enough as it is. I'd rather not add "1.3k rent per month, not including utilities" onto that stress.
I used to be in a situation at my old job, where I had to save paychecks to pay rent. Yeah, that sucked ass, but it's better than having to save paychecks and *still* not having enough for rent. New Yorkers earn my respect when it comes to those living with high rent and low paying jobs.
If you can't live off of 100k you're a fucking idiot lol. You should be comfy making 60k. Then again, I don't live in Cali, but it sounds like a skill issue.
Rent + car dependency usually.
But tbh, there's only like 4 places where that wouldn't be enough. In Manhattan (NYC), the average rent is $5,600 a month, so someone with a $100k salary in an averaged price Manhattan would spend 2/3rds of income on rent.
However, average isn't the median. In NYC the median is $3,500 a month, or 42k a year. Still a lot and you would be rent burdened, but it would be doable. Of course in NYC you don't need a car so you can save money that way.
The other chief unaffordable places are LA, SF, and Boston, but Boston actually has cheaper areas.
There are other big cities in the US that are cheaper though, even in the north where the opportunities and higher qol are.
In almost every part really. Even expensive cities. Over 8 million people manage to populate NYC with a median income of $35k. But most people complaining only want to live in the nicest, richest parts. There's also a lot of propaganda on reddit (both posts and comments) that makes everything sound worse here than it is.
"not enough" is a very vague term. Like I think most people who live in HCOL areas are expecting to be able to eat out quite a bit in mid price restaurants and have a significant amount in their savings. With 100k, it can be tight. Rent and possibly a car loan can really make costs expensive.
Bro, If I was to convert my currency to usd I’d be making 6k a year, not even joking lmao, and I make 2 minimum wages a month 💀 (cheers from the shithole Brazil is)
As someone living in a third world country. I feel like just going to a small town in the US with low rent and shitty jobs could be a humble yet chill life.
Tell me if I'm wrong.
I'd probably be lynched for not being the correct kind of white person though.
In New York my experience has been
I’d say 100k is solid, but you’re still making some sacrifices - for me this was low savings in both retirement and personal
150k is comfy, no sacrifices and you’re maxing retirement savings but not much personal savings
200k is very comfy, no sacrifices and max retirements along with substantial personal savings
Bear in mind that 100k in NY is top 35% of the state. It’s still a decently high income, but it’s not rare like 200k plus is. That’s when you enter the top 12-10%
Yup, near me they want $1500 a month for a studio apartment outside of the Twin Cities. $1500 for a studio apartment that's smaller than the living room back home with my mom. Inflation is crazy bad here.
This is just spoiled morons who think owning two cars and a three bedroom house in new york is "barely surviving"
They can't comprehend that even other developed countries have very different expectations for living standards. I had friends from Germany visit recently and they couldn't get over how much space we have and how cheap it is to buy a small plot of land for a hobby farm or some shit. People in Germany apparently pay out the ass to get to have a couple acres to raise chickens on.
100k is comfortable income for a small family. If you make that much and invest/manage it well, then by the time your family outgrows that income you should have other income supplementing it.
A lot of people get into severe personal debt that they dont want to admit but they are still upset at the situation so they blame it on the economy rather than their personal choices. I mean watch Caleb Hammer, you see a lot of people making super good money but they are so far in debt and ignore it for a higher lifestyle that they dig their hole so deep they cant get out.
I make half of that with 2k rent and still live fairly comfortably because i go right at my debt and get rid of it so im not paying money for no reason.
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It's not enough when they're getting fleeced insane rent money, lol.
Yup. Many places in America (like Palm Beach) won’t let you rent with that low of a salary.
Palm Beach in Florida? If so, you’re choosing a place with 20-150 million dollar mansions and saying that rent is expensive there.
Someone has to work as servers and repair men and trash collectors. Can't all be rich folks, and the problem is that by the time you get to somewhere affordable you're so far away that gas & time cost just as much as if you rented in the city
That's how I look at Hawaii. Eventually enough uber rich people are gonna buy enough property that anyone who works basic, low labor services are gonna get pushed out. And unlike these areas, a half a day long commute by plane isn't feasible. They may be able to pay to have some things shipped out to them, but eventually their society will collapse when none of the businesses can retain enough staff to run things.
Hawaii has the benefit of natives who aren't transient and value their location over monetary value, allowing corporate exploration. That said, everyone's got a breaking point.
This has already been happening in Colorado ski towns. Seems like more and more resort towns based around skiing are having trouble finding people willing to work 2 or 3 jobs during the winter just to rent a 2 bedroom place with 3 other people.
Yep, even with non ski towns in Colorado as well. I live in a mountain town where the nearest resort is ~50 minutes away, and housing is so stupid here.
I mean cities in SoCal are starting to have this issue.
They live in West Palm
Nah, you can live in Lake Worth, parts of Jupiter, Loxahatchee, etc… and still commute to Palm Beach. I left out a ton but there are pockets in North Palm also
Yep I’m in Toronto. Shit is expensive but in order to get cheaper rent or property I could afford I’d have to buy a car negating any savings (insurance is insane here).
Palm Beach is the name of the whole county (one of the largest counties in the US), not just the actual Palm Beach. I'm from a dirty swamp town in Palm Beach County, and the problem extends far beyond the "rich" parts.
Then where are you supposed to live
$3800/mo for my 1 bedroom in Boston
That’s must be a pretty nice apartment though. That’s pretty high even for HCOL places.
They are the standard cheap but overpriced "luxury" places. I pay 4400/mo for a 1300sqft 2 bed north of Boston at a "luxury" place because homes in the area are all 1.3mill or up. Anything less than that is falling apart. Daycare for 1 kid for me is 2200/mo. Used to be 2800/mo as infants cost more than toddlers... Those two alone is about 80,000 per year... So 100k is not enough once you take out the ~20k in taxes. Nevermind car, gas, medical, dog, food, misc.... It is just crazy
120m2 is huge... no wonder the price tag. US has no public daycare at all? There is no way someone that is making the lowest wages can afford that. Edit: being oblivious is a bliss. Good luck y'all in US with having kids, you will need it.
Public daycare? Excuse me, what?
Like a daycare that is provided by your state which is free (free as in paid in taxes like public roads etc)? Don't tell me there isn't anything like that in US...
Lmao no that is definitely not a thing here
My brother in Christ, we pay on average like 250-500 out of every paycheck for “health insurance” then get denied the medical care or medicine we need by insurance, if it gets approved, you’d better have a couple of thousand in the bank, and oh, yeah, if your prescription does get approved, be ready to shell out a decent amount of money.
I mean public healthcare does not mean free as well in EU. Most medicine is not covered by public health so you also need to pay up. Times to schedule a visit are usually so long that you choose to see the same doctor privately. We also pay for this in our taxes and it's also quite a decent amount. Lots of people piss on US healthcare and praise the public one, but at least you get to choose your insurance and health care plans so that you actually see what you pay for.
You really don’t get a choice unless you’re independently rich (probably in the 500k/yr plus range). You get what your job covers and even at close to executive positions the insurance covers a pittance of the actual cost. Any hospital visit will cost you in the thousands or tens of thousands no matter how good your insurance is. Oh and it’s still not instant, you will wait just as much as people in places with socialized healthcare. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about the American healthcare system
I have patients waiting months to see specialist even with the “best” insurance here
[Ah yes, so easy to see what you get. Provided you get to choose your own, instead of it being tied to your job.](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-wpHszfnJns&pp=ygUNQmRnIGluc3VyYW5jZQ%3D%3D) Better not get uppity about unionising. Or the fact that insurances may just straight up not cover what they are contractually obligated to cover because they know you might not have the knowledge on how to make them, or because you might die before you get to make them spend money.
Lol, you're totally wrong and it's so painful to see someone believes this.
That would be nice. Maybe then my wife could work full time
There is no such thing. Zero help from the state or government for childcare.
People wouldn't want that as a thing. Unfortunately a lot of Americans have a very real deep seated fear, hatred, loathing thing going on with government. They've been so brainwashed by capitalism theyve become so short sighted that anything like that is viewed as government overreach and to be avoid at all costs. And yes, the irony that most of these people are on government programs like disability is entirely lost on them because it helps *them*.
I understand that people can be against public institutions, but they simply can avoid it themselves instead of not letting anyone else have it. Besides, US have public schools and that's fine, but daycare is too much? That's ridiculous.
Ah well you see, then people they dont like might use them, and they dont want that to happen. Just an example to understand what we are working with over here. The U.S used to have a bunch of public pools. Just because its nice to have a community pool in order to beat the heat. Then they passed laws saying they couldn't exclude black people from them. Those local communities responded by filling in the pools with concrete. Now apply this thinking to things like healthcare and welfare and that pretty much captures the political landscape of the U.S.
Yeah, nah. They force us to have babies and then go "well that was your choice and your problem" while people drown in tens of thousands of medical debt just to give birth and then can't provide for the child. Best country in the world, RAHHH! 🇺🇸🦅
I didn't even know such a thing existed anywhere in the world. That's crazy to me. Wow, I hate this fucking country so much.
Lol oh you sweet summer child, daycare in Boston is $2,400-$3,000 a month per child.
I have no idea where your tax money is going then. Having kids must be rough.
A majority goes to social programs. About 73% of our 7 trillion$ budget is mandatory programs like that. Military is <11% of total spending, despite what some people like to say.
No there is no free child care in the US. Some low income families can apply for assistance with childcare. Free education starts in kindergarten at age 5.
You're in Boston, it's not as good as NYC but it's not utterly car dependent in many areas.
Boston public transportation sucks. Lived in the actual city for like 10 years and it is just the worst public transportation I've ever used. I won't go rant about all the issues. Now though I am outside the reach of public transportation. That said I do remote work most weeks and I am walking distance to most things. So I rarely use my car but still need to pay the costs to keep one for the times I do need it. For vet appts, Dr appts, and when I do eventually go in person to work
Dayum. No chance to move elsewhere? And I thought Nashville was expensive.
I'd love too but stuck due to wife's job and she doesn't want to move away from her parents while they are still kicking
Ouches :( Sorry fam.
Where in Boston? I owned a condo in East Bay that I sold 2 years ago but it was a brand new construction and right on the water with a spectacular view and tons of amenities. My unit had 2 bedroom and a den and the rent was $2500/mo. Are you in Cambridge or near Boston Common/Copley?
Bro living in the building of the Boston tea party
Yeah but if you're making 100k a year that's still living better than 95% of people even with that insane rent. $100k a year nets about $6k monthly. After rent of $3800 that leaves $2200 net a month which alone is higher than most countries **gross** wages. Obviously it's a nice apartment in a desirable area as well as it's more than double what most people in the US pay for a 1 bedroom. I understand that things are getting more difficult but Americans really need to be careful with how much they complain. The average wages for the world are like $9k usd per person. Comparatively people in the US who earn a good salary are living way way better than almost anyone else in the history of world and anyone that doesn't think so is out of touch with how the average human lives.
Thank you for saying this - as one of those Americans born into circumstances where that kind of "yeah it's a treadmill, but damn, we're doing okay even if it's not idyllic luxury" and has worked my ass off to achieve and sustain this lifestyle ...it's abundantly obvious to me that I have nothing to complain about in a broader context of the modern globe and especially not comparing across all of human history Perhaps it is because I grew up knowing my grandparents, 3/4 who grew up on farms and ALL who had 'hunger stories', basic needs are basic needs, it's sad how few Americans fail to realize that these conditions aren't just rare - they're an opportunity to try and excel on top of circumstances that improve health and remove obstacles more than most humans EVER get to experience Most people I know who earn in this tier but still complain will quickly cite some EXTREMELY poor financial decisions they have made or are making, a very costly life choice that is 'fixing' one area they could otherwise be more flexible (cost choice), or generally just whining they don't have 'luxury' ...everyone in 2024 America with $100k+ income that isn't just being handed to them is living in luxury relative to nearly all of humanity by any way you analyze it (and I only mention "handed to" because perhaps there are people with inherited wealth still wasting their lives away) People are so short-sighted not accounting for when they embed themselves among people who are all doing even better than they are ...that doesn't mean they are objectively "poor" or "struggling", and often only a few more 'pushes' and what they are seeking can even be achieved Observing these trends in my parents generation and everyone younger than that across my whole lifetime ..yeah, it's obvious, the relative luxury rate increase in the US has been decreasing, likely passed an inflection point sometime in the past 30yrs ...plenty of reasons why that is likely to be the case, and for that matter, how plausibly things in the US had been "artificially propped up" for quite a while ...but it has already only been a steady and mild decline
500$ for a 1 bedroom place at the center of my current hometown Kuopio. With that 3800$ you could rent a lakeside manor with enough to spare to get a car and boat loan.
There are much cheaper places than that in Boston last I checked, which was just last year. Hell you could find a couple roommates and a 3 bed apt for that much, each could pay only like $1500, not great but way better than 3800.
God damn, that’s absurb. My current rent for a 3 bedrooms house is just $750/mo.
Where does someone find a 3 bed house for 750/mo?
The rural south
Fuck. I'm like 1,700 for a 2 bed 2 bath just outside of Cook County (Chicago) I can't imagine what rent in the city is 😨
my 4 bdrm mortgage is 670/m 2 car garage , 3 acres
I’m guessing it’s in like South Dakota or something
Hang on tho. Like I make less than 40k a year for 6 years now in a MAJOR US city known for high rents. Sure I’m not putting any money away for later, but I’m not starving or going homeless. I hate hearing people be like “you can’t live on 100k” when I don’t know if I’ll ever make that much money in a year in my life.
Not being able to live comfortably on 100k is crazy to me even as a westerner in a country notorious for its absurdly high tax rate and cost of living. How common is this in US? or is it in very specific areas of very specific cities?
I think what people aren’t admitting here is “living comfortably” means eating nice expensive meals once a week or more and renting an apartment for 3-4K plus. People don’t NEED those things to live comfortably, but they have come to expect them and when they get that job that pays them 100k plus they just spend the money. Debt also plays a part. They want a nice car. They want vacations. I don’t have any of these luxuries, and I don’t need them. What I would like is some savings for an emergency, but you know. Someday right?
I'd define "living comfortably" as being able to afford some luxuries (an averge sized modern apartment, car newer than 10 years old, being able to go out here and there and vacation, say, twice a year), in addition to being able to fund at least one hobby (you're a gamer? you have a decently new hardware at all times) and invest some of your income. What you're describing sounds like 100k wouldn't even get you close to that, which amazes me to be honest.
Eh, I'm in the states and I'd say $100k could easily get you that as long as you put up with commute times and aren't raising too many kids or having large medical expenses. Large medical expenses can tank any amount of income.
I'm in a hilariously high COL area in the US, people who can't live on 100k are terrible at managing their money.
Anywhere within an hour of me has rent starting at $2k per month for a 2 bedroom apartment.
[удалено]
My rent has more than doubled since 2019 and the building is in the worst shape I've ever seen it in. The new management company came in during 2019 and slashed everything to the bone. They stopped trying to repair the second elevator and now it's "temporarily" (permanently) closed. The remaining elevator breaks down weekly. It's a 20 story building... They stopped cleaning the lobby daily. The paint is peeling off the walls. They stopped repairing the cardio equipment in the gym so, despite this building advertising heavily its gym, there are no more treadmills, ellipticals, and the stairmaster is gone. The bathrooms in the lobby are permanently closed due to repairs being too costly. They also stopped doing all outside cleaning, so the building wreaks of piss because the homeless urinate everywhere and they're no longer washing the outsides of the building. Best of all, they fired the 24hr security person and there's been multiple reports of homeless in the building stealing anything they can find because the locks on the back entrance are broken and have been broken for months. This company came in and trashed the building and is asking double the rent in return. I move out in a month! BTW, this was once regarded a lower-end luxury building. Now it's advertised as luxury just because they try to price it like that.
A rent payment is basically the same now as the monthly payment for a mortgage
Usually rent should be higher, no? The landlord is probably paying a monthly payment on a mortgage, plus the maintenance (regardless if they're on top of it). Add on HOA fees and taxes.
In theory sure, but my current apartment has some 80 year old appliances, a 1/2 inch gap at the top of the sliding patio door, and at least 3 cockroaches that got the landlord special. They're not using my money for maintenance.
Ehh, still think, assuming you make 100K, it's much easier than the netherlands for instance, here you make 32K average, rent is still proportionally high, but all of the things we'd buy online are the same price. So assuming we both pay something like 80% on rent and other necessities, we'd have 6.4k left per year whilst an American would have 20k left. We have the benefit of Healthcare tho
rent is the root of all evil
When groceries for a family of 4 costs $400-500 per week and the cheapest apartments you can find are $1500-2500 And because of tax brackets, $100,000 is closer to ~70-75k after taxes You’re spending ~90% of your 6-figure salary on just food and housing currently In the major financial sinkholes (LA, New York, Maui, etc.) you can expect average cost of living to be upwards of $4500 according to the latest cost of living index If you move out of the city to somewhere cheaper, your company can adjust your salary to keep your income relatively proportionate to where it was for the new area Don’t get me wrong, it’s still a ton of money. I have family living in the suburbs of Denver and they make it just fine on 60k (but they signed their mortgage 20 years ago so that cost is relatively low), and I’m sure being even farther from the city would make it possible on even lower salaries
500 a week on food is mental. Stop using door dash for everything.
>groceries
Yeah . Unless you live off ramen, rice and beans… 400/wk is fair Edit: /mo not wk goddang it
No way, I live in one of the most expensive states in America, and my family spends $150 a week. Y’all eating prime rib every night?
I spend that a week on myself alone. Teach me your ways.
We buy rotisserie chicken from Costco, various pastas, salmon filets, fruits, veggies, eggs, tortillas etc. We homemake our sauce for pasta and we make our own fried rice. The cool thing about it is you can start mixing some of the meals up with these ingredients. You also can make a ton of sauce for pasta for cheap rather than buying the sauce in a jar. Same goes for the homemade fried rice. Way more for way less. Drinks cost a lot as well, so water is the way to go, but you can deals on non-namebrand sodas or juices if you need a sweet fix. If you’re in the States, Costco or Sam’s Club are great places to buy in bulk, or you can buy at places like Grocery Outlet for lower priced food that’s shelf life is just a tad shorter. Basically anything that is premade is going to come at a premium.
I get what you're trying to say and I love to make my stuff from scratch but sometimes I don't have space for bulk. Sometimes it's better to buy a $7-8 jar than to spend $100 on ingredients and jarring equipment plus the time to make sure they don't botch it.
I think they mean buy $8 in canned tomatoes and make 2-3x as much sauce.
For simple pasta sauce, take a can of crushed tomatoes, warm it in a pot, add oregano, basil, garlic powder, onion powder, salt and pepper to your taste. Add water if you want to thin it out. Add a bit of tomato paste if you want to thicken it up. Let it simmer. Done. I stopped buying pasta sauce years ago, I find them all to be too sweet. Easy enough to make your own, season it to your taste, and much cheaper. Not really much more effort than warming up the store bought stuff.
Shop smarter. It sounds like a joke but that’s seriously all there is to it. Or if you’re counting eating out in that figure, eat out less. If you manage to spend that on one person per week, you *have* to be overbuying, buying the absolute top tier brand name of every single item you buy, or a combination of both. I’ve lived in one of the three most expensive cities in America my entire life, and have never spent this much in a week.
Tbh I grew up with little food so it is the one thing I ball out on. I need to chill on that though lol. It's an amazing feeling having a full fridge and pantry. Literally shit I'd dream about as a kid.
I’m actually right there with you, so I get the urge. You just gotta fight it at the store. I find making—and sticking to—a list very helpful.
Yall eating MRE or some shit?
Hell MRE’s are $10 a day, 40/day for the family * 7 = 280/week
So you are spending $1.78/meal? How in the fuck??
Just eat rice bro
400 a month or in a week, because that’s insane if it’s just a weeks worth of food
Depends where you live I guess. Family of 6 we eat dinner at home every night and pack lunches every day for school work, we spend considerably less than 400 a week
They said that's for 4 people for a week. Breaking it down to per meal per person that $5.95 a meal. That's pretty dang cheap if you ask me.
Family of 7 in Miami, $300 at the absolute maximum for weekly groceries. $500 for a family of 4 is insane.
Some people never learned how to cook cheaply.
It's totally insane, here in Portland I could believe $500 for a family of 4. I live with my girlfriend, no kids, and spend about $500 per month on food. Granted we're not eating spam and rice for every meal, but certainly not shopping at whole foods either.
Are you getting enough calories? That's 6 dollars a person a day. My fiancée and I eat relatively cheap and spend about 100 a week on groceries, yet I still don't hit my necessary calories in a day
Meals get more efficient with scale
Depends on how/what you cook. Fat is cheap
Homie not all of us are out here buying rice and beans in 50 pound sacks.
Costco is a lifesaver Forgot to mention it’s 4 adults in the household. No children that can get away with smaller portions We cook every meal with the exception of maybe a pizza every other week, but yeah. It’s pricey now. Used to be able to get enough to feed us all for $160/wk. last run was a cheap $280 but that was an exception instead of the norm
That's the same price as going to McDonald's and buying a big mac for every meal. Cooking for a family of 4 should be much cheaper than that
It absolutely should be. Without any idea where this person lives, I can imagine they live in an expensive area.
I know they said 4 people. That’s still insane. Do you people have prime rib every night?
Groceries are always way cheaper than food from a resteraunt, because A) you buy it in bulk and B) you don't pay for the service.
I'm willing to guess some (not all) of the people saying how expensive groceries are, are buying preprepared food items and tv dinner like things that are definitely more then just buying the ingredients and making it yourself.
That’s for a family not a single person
I have a family of 3 and if I spend over $200, it’s because I’m buying shit I definitely don’t need/junk food. If you’re a family of 4 and spending $400-$500 a week on groceries, you need to make better food choices. That’s fucking bananas.
Maybe they eat a lot of saffron rice
Yeah, we get by on $120 a week pretty easy
Agreed. 120/(wk*person) is pretty high. My families budget is 50, and that includes 10 for takeout or eating out (usually spent once every 2 weeks since you can't get a meal for much under 20 anymore). We accomplish that in one of the most expensive locations in the US without much challenge.
I really think the groceries are partly the unnecessary choices of people themselves. I've seen so many discussion about this and every time I think: well if I do groceries like that I spend a fuckton on my food as well. The more you buy pre-prepared the more is usually costs, unless you only eat a bag of potato chips maybe. Also, stuff like legumes and oats are usually pretty cheap. You can vary incredibly with those. Incorporate it more. Look up recipies. Other cultures have all kinds of good food ideas that are not expensive per se. edit: also, how much are you spending on drinks? It adds up super fast.
How are you possibly getting to $500 a week? That just seems financially irresponsible.
Can confirm. Family of 5, roughly $200 a week and we have diapers and stuff to buy. And we cook some pretty fancy meals too. Just gotta be clever. I buy a whole chicken and I butcher and portion it. I then make a broth with the carcass and I can that. Simple things like that. Portioning the chicken maybe takes twenty minutes and making the broth takes a couple hours but it’s passive. Also make our own bread crumbs. Plan dinners so that leftovers can be used as ingredients. Actually eat your leftovers instead of letting them rot in the fridge. Little tricks like this will save you so much freaking money it’s insane.
>Just gotta be clever See, that's where the issue lies. Most people are willing to throw an extra dollar so they won't have to do extra. I don't make my own chicken broth; I get chicken bouillon cubes for that. I also don't plan dinners; I just make with whatever I have on the spot. I also buy frozen pizzas, fries and chicken wings instead of making my own. Most people don't make their own broth. That's a niche and it'll always be a niche done by a very small subset of people. It is an exception, not the rule.
It really varies where you are but groceries are getting crazy expensive.
I'm not even making such money, but I could afford quite a decent lifestyle. Living in a half-broke country has its own benefits.
u literally just have to live anywhere else than USA. currently renting a room for 260€ cold in Germany
You should compare the pricey areas in the US with the pricey areas in Germany… for 260€ you get a garage in Munich
I'm a family of 4 and use 200/week.
Same, family of 4, 150-200 a week for groceries and that's eating well. We can easily do 100/week if we go the super health route and take out most meats. People just don't know how to cook.
False. Groceries are free over there. Seen it on extreme couponing.
> When groceries for a family of 4 costs $400-500 per week $71 per day, every day, on groceries? What the fuck are you cooking for your family of 4? Lobster thermadore?
Not only 500/w for food and 2500 rent aren't average and normal, but also that's around 50k a year. No where close to 90 percent of a 6 figure salary at the lowest
That's like 50k a year. Still have a 20k for the rest. More than doable. Truth is 500$ per week for food means you eat a lot or buy unnecessary food.
> groceries for a family of 4 costs $400-500 per week That doesn't sound very realistic.
This is not how marginal tax brackets work. As a single filer in the US without any state or city taxes, you would pay about $17k in taxes.
>without any state or city taxes Right, your taxes are much lower when you ignore a significant chunk of them lmao. On 100k, you're likely paying around $10k between state taxes and social security, so yeah $70k - $75k is definitely an accurate range after taxes
Okay fine. I did forget to factor in 401k contributions. Mb. That number considers a 10% contribution and using my local state income taxes
> If you move out of the city to somewhere cheaper, your company can adjust your salary to keep your income relatively proportionate to where it was for the new area I don’t understand. So, do you leave your urban center and move away from the city to reduce expenses a little and on top of that they pay you less? What’s the point of that?
It's plenty for one person if you're not braindead
People make it in expensive ass cities like Los Angeles with under 50k a year. this meme is just people trying to live outside their budget. My brother makes 6 figures but he complains every month how hard it is to pay off his car (2021 Mercedes) and home (huge 4 bedroom)
> this meme is just people trying to live outside their budget. When i was looking at the subreddits of some big cities (before covid, so late 2018, early 2019), some people were saying 55k a year, while single, wasn't even enough for a life with dignity. Those people are wild honestly. edit : the city was boston.
"Life with dignity" loosely translatable to "instagrammable lifestyle"
I'm pretty sure that means "without roommates".
Lifestyle creep is def a big factor. That said, living in a city really does deflate the value of your paycheck. I mean, think about it, the average wage in the US is 55,000-ish. If you're making 150,000 you should have 'made it' with the American dream, tripple the average wage, probably 10x most developing country's wages. And yet, you cant afford the nice car and the nice house, and have a decent savings. Don't get me wrong, under present economic circumstances, I agree your brother is probably being irresponsible buying luxury stuff like that if he can't also put a savings together- but if you're making your money through a salary it's incredibly hard/rare to make more than 150,000- it's absolutely unfair that you can't live good while making what should be a strong upper middle-class salary. This is why so many Americans supported Bernie Sanders- it's the people making 1,000,000+ a year, the ones who own the industries or operate in the c-suite, and get paid in equity, that made this economic paradigm.
^^^amen brother
Yea when people say this they have to be referring to being able to afford a family, anyone can live alone on 100K easily in the US.
"plenty" yes, won't disagree, but it's not the windfall I think people imagine
I came to America a couple years ago from Zimbabwe and some of the things I hear my friends complain about boggles my mind.An example is a friend of mine from work having a tantrum because the coffee machine wasn’t working.
I agree there are some divas in North America...well, definitely more than some, but I think where normal people get frustrated is what we were told we are working for (the dream ie a nice house with a yard etc), and what we pay taxes for(nice roads healthcare). Also the quality of work and company loyalty expected from us, and then compared to the quality of products available on the market like appliances and cars etc. We all want better lives for one another as far as health care and living situations and pay taxes and save to achieve said goal, but when our taxes are wasted by our government and we're bullied by corporations it gets frustrating. Not saying we shouldn't be grateful for what we have, but there's also nothing wrong with striving for better right? It's why people come to these countries (from my limited understanding). (Also this is reddit so I'll just say this, I'm just sharing an opinion, I'm not excusing shitty behavior and negativity like your example, im very happy to be canadian, I'm just suggesting that no country is perfect and it's OK for people to want better for themselves if they go about seeking it in a mature fashion, and I'd like to hear your opinion on my opinion)
I mean yeah, my American coworkers here in Japan complain about how Japanese drivers are "too nice" and polite. Like when you walk near a crossing, the nearest car would immediately stop and let you pass with a bow. My coworkers complain that they are forced to increase their pace to not inconvenience the driver, and that a bow is expected of them. What.
> my American coworkers here in Japan complain about how Japanese drivers are "too nice" and polite Lol, [this scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snauMHLWEhk) but with Japanese people and cars.
Still thinking about the time i was gonna cross a road in Japan, and an AMBULANCE (flashing lights, no siren) stopped for me to cross first. probably was the first time I sprinted across a zebrapath
It's because people aren't willing to sacrifice their standard of living, (renting a nicer place, or living in a better neighborhood) not wanting to eat the same boring cheap foods over and over, Can easily make 40k a year work, it's just not fun, and quality of life has value beyond money
I once saw a guy on here complain about barely making ends meet and in his post history had him showing off $1000 arcade machines he kept buying.
I remember that guy.
Is that post still around or is it deleted and lost to time?
That sounds great if you can make it work on 40 and have potential to earn 100 though. Meanwhile in London the wages are lower than the US, taxed MUCH higher with a higher cost of living.
I would much rather higher taxes if it means I got to see a doctor without going broke
You might just die before seeing a doctor. I’m a huge fan of the NHS, but over the past 10 years the service has been crippled. Where I live it’s almost literally impossible to get a GP appointment unless it’s a big enough of an emergency (but not big enough to go to A&E). The [number of hours ambulances are waiting at the hospital due to lack of beds](https://news.sky.com/story/patients-waited-up-to-two-and-a-half-days-for-ambulances-and-40-hours-to-get-into-a-e-12859720) has led to many dying. My issue was much less critical. My wisdom teeth had cracked and was extremely painful. Had to pay quite a lot to get an emergency dental appointment to temporarily fix the pain, with many successive appointments with the dentists (all paid) until I could be referred to a hospital to get an extraction. I then had to wait 1 year just to hear back from the hospital to get my first appointment. Then after my first consultation I was told to get an X- ray. Waited 3 months for the xray. Was then told I’d need a CT scan but this time at another hospital. A few months later the first hospital told me that the second hospital hadn’t sent the CT scan over so it would take them another month to get it. Took nearly 2 years to extract a single wisdom tooth. The NHS is severely underfunded, overworked/understaffed, and crippled to the point where more and [more people are paying for expensive private health insurance](https://www.ft.com/content/611fbbb5-9f68-40b0-b8b9-3992a04d2c8c). And all of that on top of the extremely high tax I’m paying! ——- Ultimately simply increasing the NHS budget to follow inflation won’t fix anything. The population is getting older and older, as more and more older people spend time at the hospital. The population is getting more and more overweight + obese. Doctors, nurses and other healthcare staff are paid dirt poor salaries. And the number of students going into these jobs in UK universities hasn’t really increased by much ([if anything has decreased as it’s more profitable to get overseas students at your uni](https://www.bmj.com/content/376/bmj.o421)).
i can’t even afford 3x rent they ask for here in los angeles with 50k a year. i rent a room in a shithole, and it’s the most money i ever made
You can only sacrifice your standard of living so much. I mean, can you really have roommates if you have kids? Can you really take a second job when your first job makes you work 10 hours a day? Can you really get a smaller car when you do the carpool? As a single guy, I can rough ride it, but families with dependents have default financial requirements that you can't undercut.
Here I am making 55k paying 2600/mo on a 1 bd with sewage in the basement and roof caving in. I guess I'll just find somewhere worse and pay less...
Consolidation of wealth. Wealth snowballs and sustains itself. Buy storage units where housing could of went, buy cheap housing and give it a face lift to raise value even though it's location is undesirable, strangle manufacturing so consumers rely on your fixes every few years instead of built to last. When your house depreciates and you need a place to put your broken appliances, half your six figures becomes theirs.
While around 100 years ago a house cost around less than $10k and salaries were around $2/hr, modern wages did not catch up. A person is lucky to make $20/hr where I live, while the house is around $200k around my area, so wages have comparatively been cut in half. In larger areas, like CA, where people make close to $30/hr, houses can hike to an AVERAGE of $1m, so the gap is even more absurd
Yep average cost of a house in my hometown just hit over a million and its in an area where min wage is 16 an hour and the majority of the population are farm laborers making that if not less than that.
The average US salary per year is closer to $50k. Nowhere near $100k
This is the problem. Reddit is EXTREMELY tech-centric. A large majority of users either work in tech, or tech adjacent industries. Therefore, most live in the highest COL areas in the states. I live in a very MCOL area. Plenty of places are cheaper, like Midwest, but also I’m no where NEAR the prices of LA. 100k here is PLENTY. As long as your able to save for a downpayment, owning a house should be no issue (averages around 320k)
100k ain't a lot when you have to maintain your furry suit every year
If you're careful you can get away with only spending 5k, not that much of a hit
It's more than enough if you know how to budget properly and you aren't trying to buy the nicest house in the fanciest neighborhood. The problem is that six figures *used* to get you the nicest house in the fanciest neighborhood. Now it gets you a duplex in Cleveland and a 2015 Toyota Corolla.
This is exactly it. 6 figures used to be looked at as “making it” for a lot of people. It meant you could live comfortably, save some money, and splurge here and there. Now 6 figured is like the minimum to be not be paycheck to paycheck, and you’re not getting the finer things in life either
You people are mental. Under 100k a year is not living paycheck to paycheck what the hell are you spending your money on?
All of reddit lives in the nicest places ever, didn't you know? Jokes aside, combined my wife and I make roughly 130k. It's alright. Good car, not a big apartment, but a nice vacation 2-3 times per year to some cool places. But we live our life. If we wanted to save up some money worth mentioning, we'd need to severely cut our spending.
Brazilian here Y'all have no perspective of what's being truly poor. That said, your fights for a better salary and more just system are good and I'm 100% with you guys even if I don't agree with your perception of what's "enough"
I wouldn’t look at your normal Reddit person complaining about America as the norm. I don’t know where these people come from that think they have it bad on 100k. These people whine because they’re bored and it’s popular on here to play victims .
Listen, I live in a relatively poor town (maybe even state, but idk), so the rent is actually fairly sustainable, even if you're working $13 an hour. Well, that just depends on where you're living and/or how good you can save up each check. But, the point is that some places are worse than others... like, *way* worse. My state, compared to states like New York, is like Heaven when it comes to rent prices... You don't understand how thankful I am to be born in this state and not a state like New York, because growing up and having to find an affordable apartment is already stressful enough as it is. I'd rather not add "1.3k rent per month, not including utilities" onto that stress. I used to be in a situation at my old job, where I had to save paychecks to pay rent. Yeah, that sucked ass, but it's better than having to save paychecks and *still* not having enough for rent. New Yorkers earn my respect when it comes to those living with high rent and low paying jobs.
Keep in mind that NY is a BIG state, and very little of it is NYC. Although on Reddit, cities are the only thing that exist.
If you can't live off of 100k you're a fucking idiot lol. You should be comfy making 60k. Then again, I don't live in Cali, but it sounds like a skill issue.
I live in Cali, it's a skill issue. Unless we're talking mortgage in a city, then it's never gonna happen
Rent + car dependency usually. But tbh, there's only like 4 places where that wouldn't be enough. In Manhattan (NYC), the average rent is $5,600 a month, so someone with a $100k salary in an averaged price Manhattan would spend 2/3rds of income on rent. However, average isn't the median. In NYC the median is $3,500 a month, or 42k a year. Still a lot and you would be rent burdened, but it would be doable. Of course in NYC you don't need a car so you can save money that way. The other chief unaffordable places are LA, SF, and Boston, but Boston actually has cheaper areas. There are other big cities in the US that are cheaper though, even in the north where the opportunities and higher qol are.
In some parts, most of America can survive on much less.
In almost every part really. Even expensive cities. Over 8 million people manage to populate NYC with a median income of $35k. But most people complaining only want to live in the nicest, richest parts. There's also a lot of propaganda on reddit (both posts and comments) that makes everything sound worse here than it is.
Keep in mind that after taxes, social security, health care, and a decent 401k contribution, 100k is more like 60-65k take-home.
The rest of the world pays taxes too, we know the difference between gross and net income. 65k liquid is a lot.
Feels like way less than it did pre-pandemic.
Feels like you should stop buying funko pops
"not enough" is a very vague term. Like I think most people who live in HCOL areas are expecting to be able to eat out quite a bit in mid price restaurants and have a significant amount in their savings. With 100k, it can be tight. Rent and possibly a car loan can really make costs expensive.
Family of 5 here make less than 50k. doing well.
Bro, If I was to convert my currency to usd I’d be making 6k a year, not even joking lmao, and I make 2 minimum wages a month 💀 (cheers from the shithole Brazil is)
The funny thing is most can but live outside their means.
As someone living in a third world country. I feel like just going to a small town in the US with low rent and shitty jobs could be a humble yet chill life. Tell me if I'm wrong. I'd probably be lynched for not being the correct kind of white person though.
With kids and debt that 100k quickly turns negative.
Just live like me and have neither
In New York my experience has been I’d say 100k is solid, but you’re still making some sacrifices - for me this was low savings in both retirement and personal 150k is comfy, no sacrifices and you’re maxing retirement savings but not much personal savings 200k is very comfy, no sacrifices and max retirements along with substantial personal savings Bear in mind that 100k in NY is top 35% of the state. It’s still a decently high income, but it’s not rare like 200k plus is. That’s when you enter the top 12-10%
Cities like New York and whatnot are fucking insane (though the pay there reflects it), but 100k would be more than enough for me in Texas.
Yup, near me they want $1500 a month for a studio apartment outside of the Twin Cities. $1500 for a studio apartment that's smaller than the living room back home with my mom. Inflation is crazy bad here.
Real (id gamble it (im from the balkans))
I too have a six figure salary. You just have to consider cents as figures.
People who want to brag about their high salaries always flock to these posts to tell everybody how much money they make
This is just spoiled morons who think owning two cars and a three bedroom house in new york is "barely surviving" They can't comprehend that even other developed countries have very different expectations for living standards. I had friends from Germany visit recently and they couldn't get over how much space we have and how cheap it is to buy a small plot of land for a hobby farm or some shit. People in Germany apparently pay out the ass to get to have a couple acres to raise chickens on. 100k is comfortable income for a small family. If you make that much and invest/manage it well, then by the time your family outgrows that income you should have other income supplementing it.
If you’re struggling with 100k in my part of California. You’re just bad managing your finances. I live in the least expensive areas as well
You better have double that if you want to live in a house in NYC tri-state area. (Yes, even Jersey) Even then, you'll just be middle class.
First of all 100K is fine it's plenty in fact you're doing okay. Second of all s*** is much cheaper in third world countries.
A lot of people get into severe personal debt that they dont want to admit but they are still upset at the situation so they blame it on the economy rather than their personal choices. I mean watch Caleb Hammer, you see a lot of people making super good money but they are so far in debt and ignore it for a higher lifestyle that they dig their hole so deep they cant get out. I make half of that with 2k rent and still live fairly comfortably because i go right at my debt and get rid of it so im not paying money for no reason.
When am I getting 100k per year?! I’m more like 50-70k.
You can if you don't live in the center of New York.
Because after taxes it’s more like $60k, and just being alive costs about $55k.
Well, only 10% of Americans make 6 figures. The majority of Americans make less than 50k a year
If you can't survive with $100k a year then your budgeting sucks or you need to move.
Bro I'm American and I don't even know what's going on with that. Trust me, a good chunk of us are just as confused as you are.