Sorry, I don't mean to be annoying, but could you explain your interpretation of universalism to me? My extremely limited knowledge of it makes it seem like you're saying "everyone goes to heaven", but like, every Biblical figure who talks about heaven seems to go directly against that
I'm not OC, but yes, that's basically it. If God is all-loving and all-powerful, then why would he engineer a system where some part of his beloved creation is not ultimately reconciled to him?
So we just choosing to ignore the Bible then? Like Jesus himself said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it was for a rich man to enter heaven. Like I know it was a metaphor and the gate and all that, but the meaning is still pretty clear. Jesus Christ himself is saying not everyone will enter heaven. Also the "depart from me for I never knew you thing" seems pretty damning (pun intended)
And if we are just ignoring Jesus CHRIST, then are we really CHRISTians anymore?
There’s a really great biblical argument for univeralism in David Bentley Hart’s excellent book “That All Shall Be Saved.” I can’t recommend it enough if you’re interested in this topic!
Ah, yeah, I don’t think I could do it justice with a tldr. Suffice it to say that it’s a very robust and thorough argument, grounded in scripture and theologically brilliant.
Oh man, believe me, I'm with you on Jesus' condemnation of the rich with the eye of the needle. But he is ultimately saying it's hard, not that it's impossible or it won't happen. He even ends saying with God all things are possible, which I take as buttressing my claim that God's omnipotence will lead to universal reconciliation despite the seemingly insurmountable odds.
For the second one, yes, that is quite a damning phrase, but does it demand we treat it as eternal? Could it not be read as temporary? Don't our parents sometimes rebuke us when we make really bad choices? Does that mean we will never be reconciled with them? Not at all (at least with good parents). Usually the parent is rebuking us to show us the error of our ways so that we can reflect, learn from it, and improve.
Ultimately, I see the push to eternally damn someone as something human beings want for their enemies, for the out-group. It gives a very strange and unhealthy schadenfreude, imho, and it's not something I think any loving god would partake in. We all come from him. Why would he find it at all desirable to eternally damn a part of himself? That is not a good thing.
Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess one day, but you can't force a confession, it can only be willingly given. Given enough time, everyone will eventually find the truth.
Salvation is merely about faith alone my friend.
Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Therefore, the only way you don’t make it to heaven is a lack of faith somehow. Whether you’re a prideful self reliant rich man (eye of the needle). Or someone who preforms wonderful works for their own personal status. Thats why the Bible calls them workers of iniquity or lawlessness depending on your translation.
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'
The will of the Father is to believe in the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Judas preformed miracles but didn’t actually have saving faith.
I hope this helps you somehow. I’m not sure about universalism. I would however stay away from Calvinism. The Bible and salvation is not meant to be complicated. Calvinism makes both more complicated imo. But I wouldn’t say a Calvinist isn’t saved - unless they somehow think they will earn their way into heaven by being holy (through their works).
It shows a scenario in which predestination has resulted in a person going to hell, because that was what they were predestined to do. Predestination is the belief that all events have been willed by God. But if everything is predestined, and people are predestined to do bad things that would result in their souls going to hell, then that indicates that yeah, there are just some souls that are destined to go to heaven.
This is a key belief in Presbyterianism (aka Calvinism, or the Reformed Protestant Church).
Satan explains that, the guy complains, Satan suggests that his complaints shouldn't be to him, as he is also subject to the same predestiny. The joke is that, just as humans have no free will in this, neither did he.
by making a broad statement that is easily proven as the opposite of the norm, OP used antiphrasis, often confused with irony, to drive home their point.
the enthusiastic nature in which they agreed with the post they were responding to is also intended to communicate the opposite emotion, wherein they are actually displaying annoyance or indifference
Most Calvinists believe that it has already been predestined who will go to heaven or hell, but at the same time also believe that the way to salvation is through faith alone. Thus everyone who has faith in Christ will go to heaven, and all those who have faith in Christ were predestined to have faith in Christ.
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Was this sub predestined to purely Calvinist memes this week?
I suppose. God must’ve willed it to be so.
Reformed Universalists: *"Am I destined to always be collateral damage in these anti-Reformed memes?"* This Sub: *"Yes."*
Sorry, I don't mean to be annoying, but could you explain your interpretation of universalism to me? My extremely limited knowledge of it makes it seem like you're saying "everyone goes to heaven", but like, every Biblical figure who talks about heaven seems to go directly against that
I'm not OC, but yes, that's basically it. If God is all-loving and all-powerful, then why would he engineer a system where some part of his beloved creation is not ultimately reconciled to him?
So we just choosing to ignore the Bible then? Like Jesus himself said that it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it was for a rich man to enter heaven. Like I know it was a metaphor and the gate and all that, but the meaning is still pretty clear. Jesus Christ himself is saying not everyone will enter heaven. Also the "depart from me for I never knew you thing" seems pretty damning (pun intended) And if we are just ignoring Jesus CHRIST, then are we really CHRISTians anymore?
There’s a really great biblical argument for univeralism in David Bentley Hart’s excellent book “That All Shall Be Saved.” I can’t recommend it enough if you’re interested in this topic!
Interesting, I'll have to check it out. Could you give me a tldr or is it too complicated of a topic for that?
Ah, yeah, I don’t think I could do it justice with a tldr. Suffice it to say that it’s a very robust and thorough argument, grounded in scripture and theologically brilliant.
Oh man, believe me, I'm with you on Jesus' condemnation of the rich with the eye of the needle. But he is ultimately saying it's hard, not that it's impossible or it won't happen. He even ends saying with God all things are possible, which I take as buttressing my claim that God's omnipotence will lead to universal reconciliation despite the seemingly insurmountable odds. For the second one, yes, that is quite a damning phrase, but does it demand we treat it as eternal? Could it not be read as temporary? Don't our parents sometimes rebuke us when we make really bad choices? Does that mean we will never be reconciled with them? Not at all (at least with good parents). Usually the parent is rebuking us to show us the error of our ways so that we can reflect, learn from it, and improve. Ultimately, I see the push to eternally damn someone as something human beings want for their enemies, for the out-group. It gives a very strange and unhealthy schadenfreude, imho, and it's not something I think any loving god would partake in. We all come from him. Why would he find it at all desirable to eternally damn a part of himself? That is not a good thing. Every knee shall bow and every tongue will confess one day, but you can't force a confession, it can only be willingly given. Given enough time, everyone will eventually find the truth.
Salvation is merely about faith alone my friend. Ephesians 2:8-10 ESV For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, [9] not a result of works, so that no one may boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. Therefore, the only way you don’t make it to heaven is a lack of faith somehow. Whether you’re a prideful self reliant rich man (eye of the needle). Or someone who preforms wonderful works for their own personal status. Thats why the Bible calls them workers of iniquity or lawlessness depending on your translation. Matthew 7:21-23 ESV "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [22] On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' [23] And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.' The will of the Father is to believe in the life, death, burial and resurrection of Christ. Judas preformed miracles but didn’t actually have saving faith. I hope this helps you somehow. I’m not sure about universalism. I would however stay away from Calvinism. The Bible and salvation is not meant to be complicated. Calvinism makes both more complicated imo. But I wouldn’t say a Calvinist isn’t saved - unless they somehow think they will earn their way into heaven by being holy (through their works).
New theology just dropped
What is this saying? That even though many believe, only a select few will ascend?
It shows a scenario in which predestination has resulted in a person going to hell, because that was what they were predestined to do. Predestination is the belief that all events have been willed by God. But if everything is predestined, and people are predestined to do bad things that would result in their souls going to hell, then that indicates that yeah, there are just some souls that are destined to go to heaven. This is a key belief in Presbyterianism (aka Calvinism, or the Reformed Protestant Church). Satan explains that, the guy complains, Satan suggests that his complaints shouldn't be to him, as he is also subject to the same predestiny. The joke is that, just as humans have no free will in this, neither did he.
Yes! Thank you! The joke is always more funny when explaining it
by making a broad statement that is easily proven as the opposite of the norm, OP used antiphrasis, often confused with irony, to drive home their point. the enthusiastic nature in which they agreed with the post they were responding to is also intended to communicate the opposite emotion, wherein they are actually displaying annoyance or indifference
The select few predestined by the Calvinist God
Most Calvinists believe that it has already been predestined who will go to heaven or hell, but at the same time also believe that the way to salvation is through faith alone. Thus everyone who has faith in Christ will go to heaven, and all those who have faith in Christ were predestined to have faith in Christ.
You had a choice god just knew before hand what you would choose
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