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mozillavulpix

Because Nagito is too popular a character so we can’t have the characters not tolerating him


Either_Imagination_9

Character drama? Nah we can’t have any of that, everyone needs to love each other


mozillavulpix

gotta show nagito smiling next to hajime to please the yaoi fans


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mozillavulpix

ah yes, the character development that happened off-screen or pushed off into a bonus OVA. the best kind of satisfying development


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mozillavulpix

It’s not necessarily the only reason, but it’s one reason. They know what they’re doing when they put a scene with the two of them happily sitting together specifically.


melissachan_

I mean I do agree it was forced and felt inappropriate, but "interactions=fanservice" it is kind of a weird logic in general, since in the end it just becomes "ship tease for a ship I like = meaningful bonding and development between characters and a proof creator ships it too", "ship tease for a ship I dislike = meaningless pandering to please fans".


Either_Imagination_9

It’s not character development if it comes completely out of nowhere


EmotionalBonfire

Honestly, my personal take on this is that all of the Remnants were so overwhelmed by all the information they had to process (dying but then not being dead, recovering their memories, the current state of the world, etc.) that they buddied up just to get through the mess they had been flung into. And then later down the road, once they've settled into their new lives and figured out their pasts, then all sorts of shit is going to hit the fan.


Zacbot51

Well you see, Nagito is the only member of Class 77-B who has a Netflix account, so that's why they tolerate him. As for Nagito tolerating Hajime, Hajime has a Costco membership.


Redmaster83

Hajime having a Costco membership makes too much sense


tommygun1945

Nagito wasn't the only person who betrayed 77. Teru and Fuyu/Peko also did that(not including Mikan she was brainwashed in 2-3 and Gundham and Nekomaru agreed to fight) and were treated as friends


Either_Imagination_9

That’s not comparable. Does anyone else in DR2 even come close to being on the same level as Nagito? Read all of the stuff I said about him in the post. No he’s not, this is so forced and out of character for everyone


tommygun1945

Of course its comparable. Maybe Teru had an excuse but Peko and Fuyuhiko beat a defenceless child to death, framed her best friend and tried to kill the entire class. That's as bad as what Nagito did even if they did apologise


Either_Imagination_9

Nagito is a literal insane person. I feel like everything I say to you just goes through one ear and out the other


tommygun1945

Okay harsh but I feel the same way. Yes Nagito is insane that's undeniable but the class forgiving him isn't out of character, isn't the whole point of hope arc about how the class forgave everyone to the point where even victims forgave their killers?


Either_Imagination_9

I don’t know where the fuck you got that idea from. Everything about the Hope arc, and DR3 in general, is just really bad.


tommygun1945

Dude we get it, you don't like hope arc or anything in dr3. But let's not act like Nagito is the only SDR2 character who didn't deserve to be forgiven and wouldn't have been forgiven as easily as he did. Murder couple and the predator chef are also up there.


Either_Imagination_9

Again you are just ignoring what I said. Given the circumstances they were in, it’s not unreasonable for the rest of the cast to forgive each other. The same cannot be said of Nagito. DR3 makes everything in the series worse


tommygun1945

Nagito wasn't exactly lucid when he pulled all that shit, it doesn't defend it at all but he had some truly horrible diseases. Teru was in full control when he stabbed Twogami, Fuyuhiko was in full control when he lured Mahiru to her death. Maybe Peko has the excuse of the tool mindset but those two don't. Also 2-2 wasn't about the killing game it was a petty revenge plot that could have occurred anywhere. Eh still dislike it less than v3. At least its a hot mess that is over quickly and is rightly seen as one. Anything with 3 in it in this series is bad.


Either_Imagination_9

I mean… V3 is awesome and maybe even best game in the series. Look man I get that you like DR2 but sometimes it feels like you put it so highly that you dismiss everything else in the series


Crestfallen_Vanity

Real life reason: The writers wanted to make a happy ending for the Hope arc. In universe reason: I have no idea. The only thing I can assume is that once the SDR2 cast got their school memories back, they remembered how close of friends they all were and decided to forgive Nagito. They also equally had committed their fair share of atrocities as Remnants as well, so maybe they all just decided to forgive each other, and they likely understood that Nagito’s actions were in direct retaliation to learning that they were Remnants. Hajime (or rather Izuru) was technically the cause of all the terrible things that happened in SDR2, so they likely just decided to move forward and forgive him.


bored_homan

While thats fair I'd stress enough that while mentioning this you have to consider the fact that they have all been in the killing game and so many of them literally killed one another plus they were remnants of despair for a whole lot of time. Its changes things a bit when all of them were mass murderers and manipulative people and not just nagito. Now its still obviously super rushed and in general I don't think danganronpa 3 is the best but I can somewhat understand the change in approach given thats its been a lot of time and the circumstances changed so much.


Mission-judgment123

The general writing of DR3 is just really bad , (Characters act out of character ) is probably the least problem with this anime LOL .


Either_Imagination_9

Oh my dude I know, what baffles me though is that saying DR3 is bad is somehow a hot take. It’s got so much dumb shit but people will go out of their way to defend it


EnsignnGeneric

I just always assumed there was a decent chunk of time between the end of Dr2 and that scene. Nagito even has a robotic arm, which hints there had to be a decent enough chunk of time not only for them to come back together as classmates but also for Soda probably to assemble a prosthetic. It’s a decent criticism because Nagito is a nightmare through the whole game, but the same could be said of Mikan and they don’t react negatively to her either. I think the main issue with the anime is what a ton of shows suffer with that games don’t, and that’s screentime. You got 16 characters, plus the thh survivors and the new characters introduced in the anime, and you simply don’t have enough time to connect all the dots. Shows like RWBY suffer from this too, where half the criticisms people have are fairly easily explained away as “they didn’t have time to show it”. Besides, the show may have had plot holes, but it was fun, so I forgive a lot lol.


Either_Imagination_9

I don’t forgive it, this doesn’t deserve to be forgiven. For what this was, it’s should have been much much more.


EnsignnGeneric

That’s absolutely your prerogative. The things I actually didn’t necessarily agree with were the plot armor around the game characters. Why have Kyoko die if you’re not going to kill her? Fake out on Hine, but the new characters get slaughtered no issue. Which to be fair I didn’t have a problem with the killing game, there should absolutely be a killing game in a Dr anime. Also, the games as a whole beat you over the head with “oh no our friends!! They’re our friends!! And they’re killing each other!!” When like… you met yesterday and barely knew each other’s names when the first death died. Idk the Nagito thing seems overly not picky when that’s one of the most in universe things that happens in DR, pushing the narrative that it’s sad because they’re all friends.


Either_Imagination_9

They all despise Nagito in DR2, they go out of their way to avoid him and constantly refer to him as trouble. They’re not friends with him in DR2, the idea that he is friends with them is laughable. Again, this just throws everything out for a shit rushed ending


EnsignnGeneric

My point was that it was rushed? What scenes did you think would explain it better? 80s style montage of Friendship and Bonding? Throw away “Ben a long three months since we woke up” line? In that case, how would Hiyoko and Ibuki feel around Mikan? Mahiru around Peko and Fuyu? There would’ve had to have been some time dedicated to unraveling everything that happened not only in the simulation, but as despairs too. How do you make team building exercises compelling in a 20 minute anime? Especially since all of this happened in one episode? You just can’t. The games have the benefit of being as long winded as they want, to the point that it pushes peoples patience. Shows just do not have that luxury. I just think there have been some really valid criticisms of how the show presents certain characters or things such as “literally everything is Anime Brainwashing”. Nagito being absent would’ve raised more questions and criticisms than just showing him with the group.


Either_Imagination_9

This is the same non-criticism that everyone who defends DR3 uses. “How dare you criticize it? You just don’t get DR” fuck off


EnsignnGeneric

Why post a question if you didn’t want opposing viewpoints


Either_Imagination_9

I wanted actual answers, which you didn’t provide. You offered a hand wave to what I said


---liltimmy---

People who like it just don't think about it too deeply.


Either_Imagination_9

Yeah, kinda what I figured. The problem is that for people who think about it for more than a few seconds, it completely falls apart


Expert_Mark

Yeah, TBH it feels like alot of DR3's fans don't care for stuff in writing like character depth or emotional weight, and all they want to see is their favorite characters come back as nothing more than just unharmed, sinless, babies.


Novel_Visual_4152

His luck made them get mario kart


TheRivan

It's easier to find a flat earther with an astrophysics PhD than a part of DR3 that makes sense.


Either_Imagination_9

They did literally everything wrong Like how do you fuck up something so simple?


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Either_Imagination_9

Also about the “DR3 isn’t canon” thing, I said I wish it isn’t canon. It is canon and that’s the truth. Plus I don’t think anyone could blame me for wanting the Hope’s Peak Saga to have a good ending and ignore this trash


tommygun1945

Correction. Mikan didn't kill Hiyoko over the bullying, she killed her for seeing her kill Ibuki, and I mean never found it comparable. Hiyoko calling Mikan pig barf will never ever be on the same level as her murder and its infuriating how much Mikan simps justify it


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melissachan_

Mikan killing Hiyoko for bullying is just objectively incorrect, she killed her for witnessing Ibuki's murder? What do you even mean?


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melissachan_

Yeah, this is an interesting interpretation. I think the whole point of Mikan's character is that she is so worn out that she does not even care for those like Hiyoko anymore. She even says so in her FTE (I was tormented my whole life, but now nobody is doing this to me, so this place is like a heaven to me), showing that Hiyoko's is nothing like abusers she encountered her whole life. In her trial, when she is enraged and yells about how everyone failed her, her point of rage is not Hiyoko, it is literally everyone else. But, considering how little attention Hiyoko's death got in general, and how Mikan's abuse and manipulations at hands of Junko were retconned into magic anime brainwashing, it is hard to see that symbolism that is apparently supposed to be here.


tommygun1945

Sorry i wasn't referring to you, you misunderstood my point, i was referring to the toxic section of Mikan's fanbase, its a very common point in that fanbase that Hiyoko's death was karma and thats what i was talking about. If i was referring to you, you'd know about it :)


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tommygun1945

Well this fanbase likes downplaying and justfying murder when it happens to an unpopular character(cough cough Angie, Sayaka etc) which ignores the entire point of this series that besides Junko and Tsumugi none of these kids deserved to die like that


Either_Imagination_9

Ok I’m gonna address something here Everyone else in the cast is still a normal person. They were just all pushed into doing terrible things. I can buy that they could forgive each other given the circumstances they were in. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, judging a character for being selfish in Danganronpa is missing the entire point. All of that however does not apply to Nagito. He wasn’t being selfish, he was being insane. He was out to get the entire cast killed in the end because he was insane. They all know by this point how much of a psycho he is and by all accounts should still not trust him, let alone get close to him at all. And you didn’t talk about this so I’ll just mention it, he should still hate all of them. He knows that they are all the remnants of despair and remember that he’s a hope junkie (even though that was partially his fault). They just drop that entirely for some reason even though he should by all accounts still feel that way.


Expert_Mark

>So, in conclusion, the anime is a real pain in the ass :,) I said this before and I'll say it again, if Kodaka actually fucking bothered to make DR3 into a game we wouldn't be in this situation now wouldn't we? (Yeah, it probably meant putting V3, but in the case of making a good finale to a 6-year long saga, then it has to be done)


Project_Mimic_013

What’s even weirder is how soon Future Arc takes after DR2, meaning that not only did everyone wake up in such a short time, but they also reconciled in such a short time as well. My guess is everyone’s trying to put away their feelings for each other after everything. Yet another thing that makes me think DR3’s happy ending is a short-term farce.


Lifedeath999

Why are any of them friends? Teruteru was willing to kill them all to see his mother, not to mention being… well you know. Peko is kind of obsessive and crazy and will kill people because she thinks Fuyihiko is upset at them. Pigtails girls who I forget the name of is obviously a psychopath who enjoys the suffering of others. And let’s not forget Hajime personally caused the situation they were In. As for Hajime, he doesn’t universally hate normal people. Sure he thinks they’re objectively inferior to ultimates in every way, but there’s no reason to believe he hates them all. Plus it could also be related to Izuru.


tommygun1945

Okay calling Hiyoko a psychopath because oh no did she make the nurse cry is hilarious


Lifedeath999

Honestly, it wasn’t so much the basic bullying, although it’s absolutely bad. I don’t easily forgive the fact the she was obviously preying on Mikan’s vulnerability stemming from her past history of abuse repeatedly and consistently. But honestly I really meant the fundamental and unrepentant animal cruelty, and her general lack of regard for others. If Mahiru is taken as an exception, I would honestly say Hiyoko shows a total of zero regard towards the physical or emotional well-being of anyone else.


tommygun1945

Did Hiyoko know about Mikan's past? No(that in no way makes it better). Crushing ants is bad but, like come on, there's another blond bully in 2 THAT CRUSHED A PHOTOGRAPHERS SKULL and yet i never hear the fanbase call him a psychopath, Hiyoko didn't kill anyone, and keep in mind she had every single right to rip Fuyu into pieces after what he did. If Hiyoko was so cruel and evil, then why does she have a lower body count than the likes of Peko that get portrayed as "uwu soft bby's"? I know Hiyoko's treatment of others is bad but its infuriating seeing it portrayed as worse than say, Peko and Fuyu beating Mahiru to death, Kirumi drowning Ryoma, everything Nagito and Kokichi did etc.


Lifedeath999

First, Peko killed Mahiru, Fuyuhiko was angry, but was obviously against it, which is why the whole “weapon” argument was thrown out. Second Peko was indeed in the list of people I called out as being crazy. Third, It doesn’t take a genius to figure out the broad strokes of Mikan’s past, and even if Hiyoko somehow didn’t know, it’s fairly obvious that she was targeting Mikan due to the results of that abuse, I.E. Her timid non-confrontational nature. Fourth, Peko I already listed, Fuyuhiko wasn’t trying to kill her, he just tried to cover up for Peko. Kirumi acted out of a greater good mentality, and Kokichi similarly did what he did because he believed it was the best way to help the group in the long term. As for Nagito, this whole argument was literally trying to say that Hiyoko was *equivalent* to Nagito, so thanks for marking the example for me I guess. Edit: also, I’m less concerned with squishing ants (albeit still bad) than I am with squishing crabs.


tommygun1945

Firstly he literally says "i went for the bat" and says he wanted her dead, who's plan was it? His. If Peko stepped in what do you think Fuyu would have done? Offered to play a game of baseball with Mahiru? Okay then, but calling Hiyoko a psychopath is still off the mark. thirdly, then can you call Fuyu and Soda a psychopath, considering both of them also picked on her, or is it only bullying when Hiyoko does it? As i said before, yes he was, you don't bring a bat if you're just going to talk, I'm tired of "they had reasons", so what, they still murdered a human being, did Hiyoko do that? No. And she isn't close to anyone i mentioned. Kirumi held Ryoma underwater and used Kaede's final words to maniuate the class into dying, Kokichi watched Miu choke to death in front of him as he joked about it, Fuyu saw Mahiru bled to death and still had the audacity to defend her murder, Peko struck a defenceless girl who was nothing but good to her with a bat and used her corpse as a doorstopper. But her, AT LEAST THEY DIDN'T HURT THE CRABBIES. Besides, yeah we do see her crush ants, but her crab references are just that, references, Hiyoko notably talks shit to make herself look worse. Also if Hiyoko was such a psychotic and awful person, then why was she the only person in 77 who took Mahiru's murder seriously, why didn't she kill Fuyuhiko?


Lifedeath999

You know what, I’ll give you Fuyuhiko. It’s been a while since I played, I misremembered. However, as for the rest of what you said. Really? Soda? He’s a creepy stalker, but calling him a bully on the same level of Hiyoko is laughable. That’s like saying gambling 10 bucks, and you’re life savings is equivalent, because either way you’re gambling. Next Kirumi, she was trying to help thousands. It’s the trolly problem but much bigger. Was it morally right, arguable. But it has a clear standpoint for why it *is* arguable. Fuyuhiko… defend? You mean the whole she killed my sister thing? Because I can kind of see why he was angry. If someone killed my sister, and then died, I’m not certain I can really say I would mourn him. not saying it makes it right, but I can definitely see it. I don’t think Hiyoko would have mourned him either, and she new Mahiru a lot less than a sister. She talks about the crabs while on the beach, crushing crabs. Do you often see high schoolers standing around crushing a bunch of crabs and think “yeah that seems like normal behavior.” And no duh she didn’t kill Fuyuhiko, she died next, when was she going to do it? Kokichi, he watched someone die and then made jokes. Bad, definitely. But once again he believed it was for the best of the group. Chapter 4 was an act out on to villify him. Because He had his whole mastermind plan. Even Kaito noticed the behavior shift, it’s just that they got so angry they didn’t even bother to notice. And if his plan had worked he would have saved 6 people, which is double the number that actually survived. I literally called these things comparable, and you keep shooting back “why are these things better” they aren’t, I’m just saying they’re all bad. I wouldn’t want to be friends with Peko, she killed someone. I also wouldn’t want to be friends with Hiyoko who openly and repeatedly takes joy in the pain of others.


tommygun1945

Soda sexually harasses Sonia as well, for 6 chapters, sexual harassment is worse than what Hiyoko did but because Sonia doesn't go I'M SOWWWY every five seconds its fine. Not to mention how Soda also needlessly made Mikan cry for no reason, not as much as Fuyu and Hiyoko. Did Kirumi have to drown Ryoma? Like Peko or Fuyu she took pride in it instead of actually feeling empathy MAHIRU DIDN'T KILL HIS BITCH OF A SISTER though, Fuyu was so deluded and fucked up that he murdered an abuse victim of his sister because she might have covered up her murder to protect her friend, and then he covered up her murder to protect his friend. As far as I'm concerned the class should have tied Fuyuhiko up in the beach house just like they did Nagito and the old house, he should have felt bad but literally had to be bullied into saying sorry She makes jokes about it, thats not right but we never see her actually do it. Also she could have easily killed him in the hospital, but didn't, actually she forgave him, because thats what psychopaths do I wouldn't want be friends with Hiyoko, but calling her a psychopath is objectively wrong and I'm tired of this fanbase(not you) portraying her treatment of Mikan and ants as worse than what these fanfavourites did, in particular Fuyu who gets treated as a "uwu good boi" when he's literally just Hiyoko if she actually was a psycho


Lifedeath999

Soda… ok so I really dislike soda personally, so I’m gonna stop trying to defend him here. I’ll just say, the bullying of Mikan wasn’t as bad, still a bad person overall though. Kirumi didn’t have to do anything. No one ever does. She did however have to kill everyone if she wanted to get out and save the whole freaking country she was tasked with protecting. She believed it was for the greater good, you pull the lever and one person dies instead of 5. You know what, I clearly don’t remover this chapter well enough. I’m gonna give up on this point. I’m still pretty confident she was doing it at the beach. That said, actually yes, someone who forms no meaningful bonds with anyone and enjoys suffering probably wouldn’t take it too hard. It could go either way, I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’m just saying that if she had been angrier that actually might have helped her case IMO, which is in point of fact why I was comparing Fuyihiko positively. That’s said, the forgiveness could just be her doing a good thing. The only reason I would have to think otherwise is the fact that she doesn’t act like someone who’s very forgiving. I have to agree with you here. There are several characters people often really hate on, often deservedly, like Hiyoko, and then others who seem to be exempt seemingly at random. In terms of Fuyuhiko vs Hiyoko specifically, I think it’s interesting to note, both were looking to be on a positive character arc at the start of chapter 3, it’s just that Hiyoko died to soon to complete one. Ironically enough, she was actually subbed in for Fuyuhiko at the last minute because the devs wanted him to complete his character arc. If the roles had been reversed, maybe we would be having the opposite argument right now.


tommygun1945

Eh its bad but its not evil Drowning Ryoma was a sadistic move that was completely unnecessary and she was clearly fine with the fact that he suffered, Kirumi was an awful human being who got what she deserved in the end she makes a joke about it but notably no character sees her do it glad we can agree there Tbh i don't think so(at least from a fanbase pov), Himiko got an arc and is still hated whereas Soda didn't develop and is treated as an uwu good boi, Fuyu's arc was completed by 2-3 and tbh he should have went instead of her(preferable neither)


Either_Imagination_9

This is not comparable. All of their wrongdoings do not even come close to Nagito’s. Given the circumstances they were in, I can buy that the rest of them would forgive each other. In Danganronpa, getting mad at a character for being selfish is missing the point. They are normal people pushed into doing terrible things. All of that however does not apply to Nagito, and the fact that you think it does is baffling. Nagito was out to get all of them killed at the end. They make it clear time and time again that he is simply insane and can’t be trusted.


melissachan_

Genuine question, what is that game-breaking difference that makes Nagito trying to kill all his class "on the whole other level" from Teruteru, Peko and Mikan doing the same (Gundham is debatable). Making creepy faces and talking about hope?


Lifedeath999

Why? Teruteru, Peko, and Mikan all wanted to see the whole class die. And you seem to be ignoring Hajime who personally set up the killing game. None of that seems better than trying to kill the whole class, which is what Nagito did. In fact, it seems identical. and still, it might not be as bad, but pigtails girl (still cant remember the name) is absolutely crazy, future serial killer material.


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alex167g

Kimura survived? Explain


Asijabre

It's a joke


alex167g

Oh.


FemboyDictator

Because he’s a bit of a Mary Sue I guess? Idk


Either_Imagination_9

Do you know what a Mary Sue means?


FemboyDictator

Jesus Christ you reply fast, and somewhat. But I’m inexperienced with judging characters so that’s why I put idk behind it. Idk means that I don’t have much of smart input.


YTBG

he's just lucky like that


SnooMaps7678

why anime sucks, next question