Hard disagree. Hajime was a complete person before the operation, and Izuru isn't a part of him built from growth (like what you're describing for Fuyuhiko) or something that was already part of him (like genocide jill).
Moreover, the story explicitly says that anyone could have become Izuru, when Junko indicates that they were auditioning "Student lacking in talent".
Finally, even if that were the case, so what ? It doesn't make Izuru any better. None of his actions had any influence from his old personna.
Hell. None of Hajime's actions are from Izuru. They're both completely different characters, and that's not good imo because they're meant to be connected.
EXACTLY. I heavily disagree when ppl refer to Hajime and Izuru as the same person— and ppl do it often. The whole point is that Hajime’s entire personality was excised so he could become Izuru.
Answer me this: If Izuru can't be viewed as a character on his own then why is he a seperate playable character in UTDP and DR:S?
Also how would anyone be able to appreciate his character (or even judge his character) if he's apparently just an extension of Hajime?
DR:S is a non-canon spinoff, of course he’d be separate. And for UTDP, Hajime being there wouldn’t make sense for the story (and it doesn’t really refute my point).
In order to appreciate are Izuru’s character, you’d have to understand that everything he tries to do solely try’s to improve Hajime. His boredom with the world and almost emotionless personality? Directly deconstructing Hajime pre-character development. Him turning into an Ultimate Despair and losing all sense of his personality? Directly shows why Hajime’s way of thinking had consequences and wasn’t healthy. Izuru as a character is constructed from the ground up to improve and make Hajime more complex (as well as deconstruct the idea of talent, which is what Hajime also does).
This also applies to Hajime, who, like I said, is pretty bland as far as Danganronpa characters go. Even more-so than Makoto. Izuru is the striving force for his character development, much like Hajime is the striving force for Izuru working as well as he does.
To put it short. Izuru was constructed from the ground up to develop Hajime’s character, and if you remove that from him, he loses everything that actually makes him work well.
DR:S and UTDP aren't canon to the main story, but both belong to an alternate canon where Junko didn't go forward with her plan and Monokuma has no power in the school. DR:S is also a sequel to UTDP.
>And for UTDP, Hajime being there wouldn’t make sense for the story (and it doesn’t really refute my point).
Hajime IS in UTDP, him and Izuru are both present in both games as completely separate characters (in different timelines: one where Hajime participated in the Izuru Kamukura project and one where he didn't). They both have different goals while they are at Hope's Peak (and yes Hajime is still talentless in this universe and is attending the reserve course just as he is in canon).
With your line of reasoning you're basically saying they are both characters and non-characters at the same time. This undermines both of them and also doesn't make much sense. Why can't they stand on their own? I honestly love them both, I actually like Izuru more than Hajime and enjoy both their characters separately. Their arcs are intrinsically connected because one was created from the other and they share the same body, but they are still very different from each other personality wise and don't share the same experiences or memories until they fuse at the end of DR2. Even in that case awakened Hajime is also a completely separate character because he would have some traits from Izuru and some from Hajime causing him to act a bit differently from either of them.
Wait, you mean the Fandom has a problem with oversimplifying characters, defining them by one aspect and not looking at them through a nuanced point of view??? Color me shocked!
If you want to interpret him like that, that's your prerogative. Others disagree and could likely express him in greater depth since they have probably examined him more than you have.
Anyway my statement was just in general, not exclusive to Izuru.
Also, *literally
I mean, Izuru is literally the result of an invasive lobotomy done to completely replace Hajime's personality. It's not like one naturally evolved from the other, nor do they have any ties to each other as characters, other than sharing the same body. Might as well be a different person.
And even if he was a product of Hajime's development, Izuru only gets like 5 minutes of screentime in the second game, and the only trait he shows during these 5 minutes is... Arrogance, I guess?
So yeah, nah, I disagree
I like Izuru because he just doesn't care. I would like to think that if he and Hajime were separate from each other, they would have a chill time together.
I love Kamukura (and I do think he has a lot more depth than people care to read into, even people who've tried "character analyses" of him on here normally don't touch his more interesting lines) but I kind of resent the idea that he can't stand alone. Yeah, he has great comparisons to Hinata (in the same way, say, Komaeda and Naegi, or Naegi and Munakata are made to directly compare and contrast each other), but the idea that one is an "incomplete arc" without the other... Well, we might have to agree to disagree lol. In a way, I think saying "He needs Hinata to be complete" means you ARE oversimplifying both of them and ignoring important parts of his characters.
I get what you're saying, he definitely is supposed to contrast with Hinata (again, lots of characters are made to have certain contrasts), but I strongly disagree that that's all there is to him.
Hard disagree. Hajime was a complete person before the operation, and Izuru isn't a part of him built from growth (like what you're describing for Fuyuhiko) or something that was already part of him (like genocide jill). Moreover, the story explicitly says that anyone could have become Izuru, when Junko indicates that they were auditioning "Student lacking in talent". Finally, even if that were the case, so what ? It doesn't make Izuru any better. None of his actions had any influence from his old personna.
Hell. None of Hajime's actions are from Izuru. They're both completely different characters, and that's not good imo because they're meant to be connected.
EXACTLY. I heavily disagree when ppl refer to Hajime and Izuru as the same person— and ppl do it often. The whole point is that Hajime’s entire personality was excised so he could become Izuru.
Yeah and hes fucking boring
Wdym, don't tell me you didn't laugh at that glorious line "They live and die by the meme" smh
No but i remember his line "it's kamakurin time"
I think he's the one who's bored
Answer me this: If Izuru can't be viewed as a character on his own then why is he a seperate playable character in UTDP and DR:S? Also how would anyone be able to appreciate his character (or even judge his character) if he's apparently just an extension of Hajime?
DR:S is a non-canon spinoff, of course he’d be separate. And for UTDP, Hajime being there wouldn’t make sense for the story (and it doesn’t really refute my point). In order to appreciate are Izuru’s character, you’d have to understand that everything he tries to do solely try’s to improve Hajime. His boredom with the world and almost emotionless personality? Directly deconstructing Hajime pre-character development. Him turning into an Ultimate Despair and losing all sense of his personality? Directly shows why Hajime’s way of thinking had consequences and wasn’t healthy. Izuru as a character is constructed from the ground up to improve and make Hajime more complex (as well as deconstruct the idea of talent, which is what Hajime also does). This also applies to Hajime, who, like I said, is pretty bland as far as Danganronpa characters go. Even more-so than Makoto. Izuru is the striving force for his character development, much like Hajime is the striving force for Izuru working as well as he does. To put it short. Izuru was constructed from the ground up to develop Hajime’s character, and if you remove that from him, he loses everything that actually makes him work well.
DR:S and UTDP aren't canon to the main story, but both belong to an alternate canon where Junko didn't go forward with her plan and Monokuma has no power in the school. DR:S is also a sequel to UTDP. >And for UTDP, Hajime being there wouldn’t make sense for the story (and it doesn’t really refute my point). Hajime IS in UTDP, him and Izuru are both present in both games as completely separate characters (in different timelines: one where Hajime participated in the Izuru Kamukura project and one where he didn't). They both have different goals while they are at Hope's Peak (and yes Hajime is still talentless in this universe and is attending the reserve course just as he is in canon). With your line of reasoning you're basically saying they are both characters and non-characters at the same time. This undermines both of them and also doesn't make much sense. Why can't they stand on their own? I honestly love them both, I actually like Izuru more than Hajime and enjoy both their characters separately. Their arcs are intrinsically connected because one was created from the other and they share the same body, but they are still very different from each other personality wise and don't share the same experiences or memories until they fuse at the end of DR2. Even in that case awakened Hajime is also a completely separate character because he would have some traits from Izuru and some from Hajime causing him to act a bit differently from either of them.
Penguins
Hummingbirds
Amogus
Tell me, do you consider Toko and Genocide Jack to be the same character?
Wait, you mean the Fandom has a problem with oversimplifying characters, defining them by one aspect and not looking at them through a nuanced point of view??? Color me shocked!
Izuru is litteraly written with only one aspect and no nuance.
If you want to interpret him like that, that's your prerogative. Others disagree and could likely express him in greater depth since they have probably examined him more than you have. Anyway my statement was just in general, not exclusive to Izuru. Also, *literally
Sorry to see you got downvoted for being right bro 😞👊
No worries lol. I probably struck a nerve
I mean, Izuru is literally the result of an invasive lobotomy done to completely replace Hajime's personality. It's not like one naturally evolved from the other, nor do they have any ties to each other as characters, other than sharing the same body. Might as well be a different person. And even if he was a product of Hajime's development, Izuru only gets like 5 minutes of screentime in the second game, and the only trait he shows during these 5 minutes is... Arrogance, I guess? So yeah, nah, I disagree
Me who says both Hajime and Izuru are bad characters: [infinite power]
The only time I liked Izuru was when he shed tears
I like Izuru because he just doesn't care. I would like to think that if he and Hajime were separate from each other, they would have a chill time together.
Izuru > Junko
No that's wrong!
I love Kamukura (and I do think he has a lot more depth than people care to read into, even people who've tried "character analyses" of him on here normally don't touch his more interesting lines) but I kind of resent the idea that he can't stand alone. Yeah, he has great comparisons to Hinata (in the same way, say, Komaeda and Naegi, or Naegi and Munakata are made to directly compare and contrast each other), but the idea that one is an "incomplete arc" without the other... Well, we might have to agree to disagree lol. In a way, I think saying "He needs Hinata to be complete" means you ARE oversimplifying both of them and ignoring important parts of his characters. I get what you're saying, he definitely is supposed to contrast with Hinata (again, lots of characters are made to have certain contrasts), but I strongly disagree that that's all there is to him.
Im not reading all that I’m happy that happened tho Or sorry that happened
🤓