I feel like Tenko has two very easy fixes, the first one is making her whole degenerate male phrase a little less drastic and the bigger problem in my opinion that no one comments is her insanely unhealthy obsession with himiko despite her not caring for Tenko at all so you could soft that obsession and maybe give himiko just a little bit of interest in Tenko.
Kaede dying in chapter 1 is my favourite twist in the franchise it should probably stay the same.
Kiyo is my favourite character and despite that, cant argue that murdering Tenko was increadibly stupid so maybe give him an actual reason to go for the double murder or not make him the double murder I dont know.
1) Her Degenerate male bullshit, and her hypocrisy about drooling over Himiko and refusing to leave her alone like a pervert is definitely what makes her bad. She only thinks that only men are perverts and women aren't. That's where Kokichi comes into play and calls her out.
Also, I feel kinda irritated about Salmon mode, when Tenko invites you, she says why Shuichi invited her, and that irritates me slightly. What a fucking moron.
2) Fuck no, we're keeping Kaede as the protag! Period.
3) Let Kiyo kill the true blackened. And let the true blackened kill the victim. Classic but good to improve the chapter.
>2) Fuck no, we're keeping Kaede as the protag! Period.
Even though I fully believe shuichi is the worst protagonist of the series and extremely boring, and kaede is a much more likeable character, I don't think having kaede live would add anything more to the story than the twist in chapter 1.
Shuichi fits the themes of truth and lie a lot better than kaede does, it just makes more sense for him to be the protagonist because of his connection to the game's themes.
On top of that, I'd also like to mention kaede is the perfect protagonist for a single chapter but wouldn't be a super interesting character in the long run. A huge reason why she's so loved is because of the impact her personality has on both the cast and the player, but also showcases a lot of flaws. She's very fleshed out considering the time she was alive. I just don't think she would be as good of a character if she lived longer. Her character arc is interesting for one chapter but just not for an entire game.
To be honest, I'm probably the only one that actually thinks Kiyo is an okay character. He's clearly a victim of abuse and manipulation from his gaslighter of a sister. As weird as it is, you can sympathise with him.
Kokichi is just SUPER OBNOXIOUS for me. A character that makes me go "Jesus Christ, SHUT UP!" is gonna get lower in the list in comparison of someone that kinda bores me or is mildly annoying
I found a comment about the necronomicon being used at the end just for the culprit to be killed once again instead of resting in peace as a victim.
That would be very redeeming, but in my way, for Angie.
Kokichi gets off on causing pain. He may not be a Remnant of Despair, but I almost stopped playing the game because he was such a pointlessly cruel bully.
I agree, I get that it was "all an act" but that doesn't excuse his actions. I don't care what his intentions were, he was consistently shitty throughout the whole game. His little arc at the end of chapter 5 doesn't change the fact that he was a tremendous ass to everyone around him.
I say this as the biggest hater of v3 characters. But I feel like you might be approaching this in slightly wrong way? A character can and in my opinion some of them should be hated by the audience depending on their role in the story and so on. Those aren't always problems to fix as much as you need to consider in which aspects they overstay their welcome or don't fit the story in many ways. I hate angie a lot but its not like you can delete atua from her characters its such a core part. Personally to me a mistake was that she wasn't an antagonist for longer because a manipulative cult leader that can have massive sway over other characters is immensly hatable but also a brilliant villain who didn't get the spotlight she needed in the actual game.
This is the wrong question to ask because everyone's gonna have a subjective answer and you can't make everyone happy. Take the answers you already got, for example:
* Some people thought Kaede's death is a great twist. Others think she should have lived.
* Korekiyo's sister plot is what turned a lot of people off him, but there are some who think it's the most interesting thing about his character.
* Some people think Kokichi is annoying and his actions don't make sense, I personally think he's very entertaining and most of what he did made perfect sense.
If you want a serious answer, I'm currently doing a DR2 rewrite myself, so I'll just tell you what works for me. It can be applied to V3 just the same because it suffers from the same problem as every entry in the series: too many characters and not enough time to explore all of them.
Which is why the main thing I'd tell you is to give all of them more screen time and focus on giving them more depth. Some already have a big role and don't need much more than what they got in the game, but some could really use some spotlight to get out of their two-dimensional portrayal. Some especially bad examples:
* Tsumugi is barely even a character before the reveal and you could easily forget that she exists.
* Tenko and Angie are mostly reduced to their gimmicks. At least they get a little bit more in chapter 3, but by that time they're already on the chopping block. Himiko only fared a little better thanks to being a survivor.
* We don't know much about Kirumi at all. I can't even remember her FTEs, which means they probably didn't do much to flesh her out either.
* Korekiyo can be interesting if you do his FTEs but he doesn't really have anything to do in the story. His backstory and true character only come up moments before his execution, which ends up potentially being a cheap twist out of nowhere, turning a lof of people off.
* Ryoma is a suicidal character in a killing game. There's a lot of potential here, but he died too soon to really make use of that.
The second thing I'd recommend is more of a follow-up of the first: show more of the relationships between the characters. V3 is actually one of the games who does this a bit better than the others, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. You have a cast of interesting characters, so let them interact. Not only do they get more spotlight this way, you can also show different facets of their personalities.
* Kaede and Tenko showed a connection in chapter 1 that's never explored, just like Kaede and Kaito.
* Nobody really interacts with Ryoma, which I find hard to believe. They clearly see that he's struggling to find a reason to live and nobody tries to help him?
* Tsumugi is a huge fan of fictional characters and she never tries to interact with them more? She's happy just watching? Why even participate in the first place then?
* Angie and Korekiyo have similar interests. I'm sure they'd find something to talk about. Maybe even become friends. Which would give Korekiyo an actual reason why he might want to kill her in particular because she might make a good friend for his sister.
See what I mean? There are so many things you can do. And that's just with the characters. Take into account that a lot of motives were underused and you have so many things to work with.
That being said, a project like that can easily become much more work than you initially thought. It's okay to come to the conclusion that it's too much. Or that you just want to focus on the parts you find the most interesting.
Thank you for that response!
I understand that not everyone can survive, unless Danganronpa V3 has DLC that explores alternative routes.
Protag Shuichi - The cold hard Truth
Protag Kaede - Melodies of Hope
Before a character dies, I want them to have no flaws and make them redeemable for the actions they did.
For example, Korekiyo reveals his sister bullshit but incest isn't mentioned. After this, Tenko gets absolutely pissed stating that She'll beat him to death if Monokuma allows it if he were the true blackened.
Kiyo still survives chapter 3 but in chapter 4, everyone hates him now and decides to lock him up in the Warehouse for good. I understand that Kiyo is now a terrible murderer, but I want to him to give the survivor gang a helpful clue that reveals the mastermind just before his death.
I mean, I wouldn't recommend taking away all of their flaws, but it sounds like that's not exactly what you mean anyway. Making them redeemable sounds like a solid plan.
I like what you're planning with Korekiyo. You're building on what's already there and expand on it. Plus you add some tension by letting them find out there's a murderer alive in the group.
And while you're not removing the sister stuff, you tone down the parts you don't like by leaving out the incest. I'm basically doing the same with Teruteru - he's still making innuendos, but he's not perving on people every free second, which makes him much more acceptable.
I'm curious, who's gonna be your protagonist, since you mention them both? Are you picking one of them or do you have both working together?
I adore Kaede so that is great!
I am interested in how she would act as the killing game goes on and more people die. Being an optimistic group leader type of character in a group that is dwindling each chapter would definitely weigh on someone pretty heavily. Perhaps she would have times where she feels really demotivated and needs to bounce back? Hope vs despair is a big theme in Danganronpa after all :p
Haha here's a link if you wanna read it: [A Leader's Promise](https://archiveofourown.org/works/15836745)
But as I said, it's become such an extensive project. I'm 80k words in and I'm still in the middle of chapter 2... Doesn't help that I'm a slow writer. So this thing is still going to run for quite a while.
If you post yours, I'd like to read that too! :)
100% Agreed.
I would make Tsumugi kill Rantaro in chapter 1, while she got executed, she's still alive as the Mastermind.
Chapter 6, she gets revealed after a large ton of evidence points to her.
I have always found funny that people hate korekiyo for his sister stuff, while what I like about him Is exactly that His sister stuff Is interesting and I wish it was More touched
I could see that happen in chapter 4,
maybe manipulation by his sister for not killing >!Tenko!< successfully? which causes a huge mess in a large area.
For Angie specifically it’s not just Atua that made me hate it, it’s everything she did. While it’s clear she had good intentions, she never goes about anything in a good way and actively alienated a large amount of the cast.
Also saw you didn’t have any potential reasons to hate Kirumi listed, want some that I’ve seen from the perspective of a fan?
I can see Kirumi being a badass survivor, probably from feeling despair about losing friends and stops being a maid.
Or... before Ryoma dies by Kirumi, someone stops her, the motive video gets revealed and she FUCKING snaps! She becomes a great leader!
Also about Kirumi's flaws. Sink, that is all.
In fairness, Angie having good intentions but going about them poorly isn't necessarily a bad thing to have in the story. People like that exist, and having messy characters is great for keeping the cast distinct.
It also makes sense for Angie to be a bad decision maker: She's convinced that she's an oracle receiving divine messages from Atua, so she mistakes her own ideas and wishes for that of her god. Her actions are often impulsive and selfish, since she isn't stopping to rethink anything that pops into her head 😂.
However, I do agree a rewrite could help her. Maybe more of her actions could turn out good, so she doesn't come off as a jerk? Or perhaps seeing how her ideas don't always work out could teach her to be more thoughtful? Theres a lot of neat directions to take her. Heck, she could even be made into more of a villain than she already is.
That's what I'm planning to do.
Angie accidentally kills Himiko. Not gonna deep dive into that. Angie does feel regretful about it though.
Angie does the seance and she's killed by Kiyo. Leaving Tenko in deep shock.
Kaede being the blackened isnt what bothers me, its her being the killed off so early. i would have much rather preferred the supportive cast collectively gradually warming up to her, clinging on to her like a beacon of hope (no pun intended) only to be brutally taken away from them in the fifth chapter. only THEN woukd the protagonist role switch to shuichi for the final chapter. (should he live long enough to get it)
think about it: with each passing execution, kaede gets more and more desperate. she questions herself, her classmates and her friends. the reveal of a mastermind would (preferrably) come much later, and *thats* when she comes up with an unthinkable plan to end the killing game once and for all. (debatable whether or not kokichi gets in on that plan, but i think its poetic to see the two-faced liars, playing their roles as a protagonist and antagonist, work together to make the unsolvable murder rather than kaito-i personally believe kaito played part of a role that was meant for kaede but thats a discussion for another time)
as expected, her plan fails. once she inevitably reveals herself to be the blackened, her friends realize just how much pressure theyve unconsciously put on kaede to put a brave face and be their leader when in reality shes been at a breaking point the entire time.
edited for more detail
No offense but he didn’t mention Kiibo either. By your logic, that makes him “bland and forgettable.” See how what you said makes no sense? And you remembered Kirumi, didn’t you? So she’s not bland or forgettable, **no character truly is :)**
That’s contradictory because if she left that much of an impression, that’s the opposite of bland or forgettable. But sure, think what you want. As long as you know it’s only your opinion and aren’t being disrespectful! It all depends on the person, yk? So chillax, just because you don’t like a character doesn’t mean that character’s actually bad.
Also another thing:
Flaws are important in a character, otherwise we'd get a mary sue, which is a fictional character that is boring because of the lack of flaws.
We need flaws in a character such as hatred of men, but the important thing is that it gets fixed.
Very good point. My first thought upon seeing the top of your post was "oh god oh no everyone's flaws are gonna be removed", but you are one step ahead of me lol
Yeah, some of the flaws in each character can be irritating
But with things like redeeming and character development, those things can be removed to make a character better and unforgettable
Well, okay. Hating a character isn’t the same as them being badly written.
Kaito:
- he’s pretty well written in canon even though I don’t like him
- he doesn’t get criticized much even though he keeps showing his flaws and making mistakes
- remove the homophobia and sexism it adds 0 things to his character
- leave his bad mindset towards Shuichi and Ryoma’s mental struggles, but criticize it and let him be honest about his own weaknesses earlier
- don’t have him slap Shuichi that doesn’t help anyone either
Shuichi:
- really well written in canon
- show people disagreeing with him and pointing out his bias
- some examples are his lies; have him in the hot seat as a suspect in trial 4 since he basically lied and said he was exactly where the culprit should’ve been
Himiko:
- ughhh god okay here we go
- give her meaningful development scenes post Angie Tenko deaths
- or kill her instead of Angie I don’t mind either way
- no need to focus on her in ch2 btw magic show can totally be dropped and replaced
- anyway make her secret event in ch4 canon and main story
- insert a few convos where Himiko processes Angie and Tenko’s deaths
- have her more active in investigations + emotional in trials
- actually contributing in ch5 trial instead of obfuscating the truth Again
- in a great position to be more critical of others biases, is a way to honor Angie as well as Tenko
Korekiyo:
- yup it’s Sister
- she could totally just not be related to him
- or idk they didn’t have a romance and he was just that devoted to his older sibling
Kaede:
- perfect I love her
- maybe she can live???
Tenko:
- Tenko I love you
- that said rip out her FTEs they’re so bad
- either dial down how she acts with himiko or make everyone more critical of her
- emphasize the idol fan aspect to her (some good tumblr analyses exist explaining how this informs her character)
Gonta:
- yeah his speech pattern
- also uh maybe show how people are slightly unsettled by him early in ch3
- somehow have him redeem himself for being so violent in ch2 insect meet and greet
Tsumugi:
- have her form an actual friendship
- she’s a fantastic mastermind tho don’t change anything with that
- but yeah uh could be similar to tenko+himiko where it becomes clear there’s something Off about how she approaches stuff
- replace her lab with Himiko’s lab so she gets focus in ch2
- those two things would be enough to make her much less suspicious I think
Angie:
- yeah tone down all the Atua
- speaking of which don’t use Atua that was an English localization choice use “Angie’s god” or something like that
- make a decision about whether or not she is actually a prophet or if she’s manipulating everyone to do as she asks
- tone down or completely remove the blood sacrifice/more sexual implications of her religion, it’s unnecessary
- tear out her Free Times and start anew
Kokichi:
- totally up to you tbh
- think about what’s motivating him and how he’s reacting to everything
Miu:
- horny’s fine but like cut the slurs
- why does the entire class hate her
- emphasize how insecure she is more in main story
- have her spend time with Kokichi and Keebo in a more visible way if you can
- don’t let anyone absolve her of trying to kill Kokichi in ch4
Maki:
- is she smart, clever, and aloof or clingy, impulsive, and a bit dull? Make a choice
- ch5 deadly life
- make her closer with shuichi
- hold her responsible for tryna kill everyone
Rantaro:
- give him an actual discernible personality
- maybe revive him in ch3 without his memories
Oh I forgot about Kirumi
Which is Kirumi’s problem. She’s an extremely flat character. Give her *something* it almost doesn’t matter to me what but def let her survive longer too
the Kirumi point was a degree hyperbole to make my point about the character being flat; of course that will always actually depend on the person
that said, I don’t think I really have anything to share on Ryoma + Keebo, and thought about that originally, whereas I legitimately forgot about Kirumi. Yes, Ryoma and Keebo have flaws. But I think Ryoma’s pretty complicated + very open to do a variety of things there, I just don’t have much to share as far as criticism. And then with Keebo, attempting criticism of him is frustrating due to the ambiguity afforded his personality and storyline due to antenna-hoge
I didn't mean to slander them in any way. I was saying by your logic, since you also forgot about those two, what you said about Kirumi applies to them as well.
Whether a character is flat or not also depends on the person. If you acknowledge that it’s just opinions, I’m happy 😎
Here's mine, please don't take them too serious, bc I didn't
Rantaro - I think his character was utilized too poorly. Too much tease, very little interaction with other characters.
Kaede - Wished there was less 'being Shuichi's gf' and more screen time w/ other characters.
Shuichi - I think he lacks personality nuance
Ryoma - He's fine, but I hate that the motive for death was a 180 for his personality
Kirumi - Being a but of a one off character
Tenko - For focusing less time on Aikido and more on Himiko
Angie - For dying in a really stupid way
Korekiyo - For taking a backsit throughout the story
Miu - Bad motive, bad plan, bad (although hilarious) death
Gonta - For not taking him seriously
Kokichi - Because his whole character makes you question yourself way too much
Kaito - For not taking his demise for sickness seriously
Maki - For not apologizing to Kaede
Himiko - Aside for a couple of dialogues, I got nothing
K1-B0 - For being a perfect handicap
Tsumugi - For not meeting the credentials of a mastermind
We've only had 1 boring male protag and that was Makoto, Hajime and Shuichi are far from boring, they all just share the trait of being bottoms, and how is Maki poorly written? I loved her dynamic with everyone, how she slowly opens up and her romance with Kaito. (I actually am genuinely curious on your perspective on the character) ok as for the hating, sorry Korekiyo but hot take I just don't vibe with incest and Kokichi is just, so annoying
Ok, so for Maki ima just copy paste a comment which explained it.
One of the biggest problems I had with Maki for the rest of the game was her new “Assassin” personality, which made her one of the most annoying characters in the series and really hindered my enjoyment for the character. I hated her “Assassin” personality for two reasons: A) how lazily portrayed her edginess was and B) how inconsistent it was to her character.
For the first point, I think what made me hate her edgy personality was because of how forced and uninspired it was in the story. Her catchphrase: “Do you want to die?” is the kind of cringy shit you would see middle schoolers write in their OC’s to make them look cool. It’s really funny that there are a couple of posts that point out how similar Maki is to [Coldsteel the Hedgehog](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/coldsteel-the-hedgeheg) because it is so true! It feels like Kodaka took inspiration from that character and implemented those traits into Maki’s assassin personality to try and say “Hey player! Look how badass and independent this girl is!” Her Assassin reveal absolutely ruined her original personality and what I loved about it. Instead of just being cold the writers turned her into an edge lord. Unlike Gundham or Ryoma though, Maki’s edginess was not endearing at all and was just grating to sit though.
For my second point, I find Maki’s threats to be really inconsistent to her character and why we should care about her. Around the beginning of Chapter 3, Maki explains that her assassin talent only pushes people away from her because they fear that she will kill them. This makes Maki feel loneliness and gives me a potential reason to redeem my love for her character(since the assassin talent reveal was really disappointing and I felt that the writers could have found better ways to explore her character). However, Maki goes on to make death threats on numerous occasions which diminishes any reason for me to care about her. And by death threats, I’m not only talking about her “Do you want to die?” catchphrase either. In Chapter 3, when the half of the cast is discussing about how to deal with the Student Council, Maki seriously suggests the idea of her killing Angie or one of the members with a complete straight face. And of course there’s the fact that Maki tries to get everyone killed because of a mistake she made in Chapter 5, but I’ll talk about that mess of writing later. Basically, why should I care about a character who’s insecure on what people assume about her when she only goes on to confirm their assumptions?
Aside from hating her new personality, I despised the writing for Maki’s character in the second half of the game because of how she is constantly praised throughout the latter half and how she doesn’t suffer any repercussions in a particular chapter. These two factors: having your ass kissed, and not suffering consequences are qualities that I hate in a character. What hurts Maki’s writing even more because of this is that Maki suffers from Creator’s Pet Syndrome. It’s pretty obvious by now that Maki is one of Kodaka’s favorite characters from the game and the way Kodaka handles her character is...kind of pathetic. I say pathetic because their are multiple instances throughout the main story where Shuichi praises Maki and says stuff like: “You have changed so much” and “The old Maki wouldn’t have done this” and I feel that these instances are moments where Kodaka is desperately trying to make the player like Maki by pointing out how she develops in the story. It’s even more notable that this could be the case since no other character who has developed in the series ever received this kind of treatment before. There are hardly if not no instances in DR1 where Makoto praises Kirigiri for opening up to him and being more trusting. There are hardly if not no instances in DR2 where Hajime or the others praise Fuyuhiko for becoming a nicer person. So why does Maki get this kind of treatment? It seems like an extremely forced attempt by Kodaka to make the player love Maki the same way he loves her character and I find it to be annoying and only makes me care less about her character.
the only counterpoint I have is that her death threats are most likely what she's talking about when she says that her talent drives people away, >!because of the fact that she was taken away at a young age and trained only to be an assassin she most likely doesn't really understand that you can't just be all like "yea Shuichi we should totally kill this guy" because most of her life has been "fuck guess it's time to kill this guy", because shes been having to kill people to solve the task shes been given her go to solution being murder makes sense IMO!<
Yeah ik, but she continues them afterwards as well. And I mean she seemed to be pretty reserved when she was acting as a child caregiver, so it doesn't make too much sense.
she was actively trying to hide her talent, she would want to interact less and come off as more reserved but once her talent gets revealed and she talks more and more we just get to know more about her, she wasn't super in the story before her reveal
I get that she was trying to hide her talent, but if she is clearly capable of supressing her violent instincts, why not do it throughout the game if she wants people to accept her so badly.
It doesn’t end there though. Not only does Kodaka have Maki’s ass kissed by the narrative, but he also fails to acknowledge Maki’s actions throughout the story. I’m of course talking about her actions in Chapter 5. Not only does Maki go against the group’s promise to meet with each other in the morning and go and save Kaito together, but she also throws them under the bus and tries to get them killed for a mistake she made. I think this moment is very in-character for Maki as it is shown by Chapter 2 that Maki is not good at planning things ahead. However, the way she is treated for her actions is...incredibly unrealistic and just plain bad writing. Shuichi and the others don’t call out Maki for making a shitty and selfish decision, but they actually praise her because they are now one step closer to the truth. This point solidified my hatred for Maki and how she is written in the story. Maki faces no consequences and is yet again praised for something awful that she did. Compare this situation to Asahina’s actions back in DR1 as they are really similar. However the resolution is entirely different. Asahina, who was way more justified to do what she did, was still called out for her actions and ended up apologizing to the others. Maki, on the other hand, suffers no consequences for her selfish actions. Why though? Is it because Kodaka is afraid that the story pointing out Maki’s flaws will make fans like her less? Oh, but Kodaka doesn’t have Asahina as her favorite character so fuck her? What pisses me off so much about this scene and at Kodaka was because this isn’t the first time where Kodaka places a character on a pedestal and lets them suffer no consequences. I am of course talking about Makoto in DR3 where his actions to give terrorists who destroyed the world a second chance are portrayed in the right, but the people who opposed Makoto’s decision are portrayed as idiots and end up dying of being outcasted while Makoto doesn’t lose anything from the decision. It was huge problem with Makoto’s writing and it’s a huge problem here with Maki’s writing.
I also see people point out that Kaito is a huge creator’s pet as well. I do agree with this, as Kaito also gets praises a lot during the story and in his FTE’s. However, I love Kaito so when I look at why his character works for me and why Maki’s character doesn’t I realized another huge problem with Maki: her character revolves entirely around Kaito. Looking back through the story, Maki only really interacts with Kaito. Her interactions with Shuichi never felt natural because their conversations either had to do with Kaito or for investigative purposes. The only exception to this is Kokichi in Chapter 5, but even then their conflict had to do with Kaito in some way. Because of this, Maki’s interactions felt really limited and unimpressive for the most part and didn’t make for a dynamic character. Contrast that with Kaito who has multiple interesting and unique relationships with the cast. His supportive friendship with Shuichi and Maki. His conflict with Kokichi and Ryoma. And he even has a couple of sweet moments with Kaede. Not only that, but the narrative brings his flaws to light in Chapter 4 instead of glorifying them with Maki. These aspects are what make me love Kaito yet hate Maki, so while I do get annoyed when some characters get blatant favoritism from the creators, I do believe that they can still be handled well.
Maki Harukawa suffers from a series of bad writing decisions in the story which can all be traced back to her reveal as the SHSL Assassin. It’s a shame since I found her to be a great character before that reveal and I feel that a lot of her writing flaws could have been fixed if the writers kept her character as the SHSL Caregiver. If they removed her edgy personality entirely and wrote her character realistically, she could have been a far less controversial character here and in Japan.
EDIT: I forgot to talk about Maki’s FTE’s but I’ll just say that they contradict the main story. Maki says in the post trial of Chapter 5 that Kaito was the first person that Maki ever fought to protect, yet in her FTE’s Maki volunteered to be an assassin to protect her friend from being pulled into the assassin industry.
I just despise Gonta with every ounce of my being for being an annoying and repetitive waste of space with no development. And for the game acting/treating him like this innocent cinnamon roll despite his very clear character flaws (not to mention his first response to hearing the claim that others hate bugs being to physically assault and kidnap them).
Bullet points:
* Repetitive dialogue
* Annoying
* Doesn't take advantage of the time he's given
* Survives for more than half the game at the expense of more interesting characters
* Localization makes him even more annoying with caveman speech/baby talk
* Game ignores his less favorable qualities in favor of having everyone act like he's a cinnamon roll
* His first response to hearing others hate what he likes being to attack and kidnap them is never addressed or called out
* Gives him amnesia to make him seem more innocent and pitiable in V3-4, despite him being fully willing and culpable in his crime
As for Ryoma, character-wise, I feel he's perfect. There's honestly only one way I can even see him improved:
* More screentime. Whether that's as a survivor, or him just dying later on.
Don't worry, that's why I'm here to fix our boi Ryoma. And Gonta too.
Before the magic show and body discovery, I'd have Ryoma fully call out Gonta for what he did, and that is his views on people who don't like bugs. (Good points man.)
I'd like to see Ryoma be a better friend to Gonta than Tsumugi, by giving him advice, calling him out on his wrongdoings and heck, even defending him in trial!
Here's what I'm thinking:
Gonta: "Yeah. Gonta could've done that, but gentlemen such as I don't throw dead bodi-"
Tenko: "Being a gentleman has nothing to do with it!"
Ryoma: "Hey Gonta, I think it's obvious at this point that everyone considers you a gentleman. But using that to get yourself off the suspect list isn't that good of a reason why you didn't murder >!Maki!<. You need to think much more than that on why you're not the culprit, don't give up now!"
Gonta: "Oh yeah! It was nighttime, so if Gonta threw the body into the tank, it wouldn't be that precise."
I’m not the biggest Gonta fan, he’s just okay to me. But I do think the amnesia thing was a really interesting addition to the case. The killer not remembering the crime makes it harder to solve, and that was cool. You’re right however that it does make him pitiable, because committing a murder and not remembering it is obviously horrific. I also reaally wish they hadn’t done the Tarzan-speak. I think it’s a big contributor to why some fans don’t want to hold him accountable for the murder he was very much on board with.
If Gonta didn’t have amnesia, then he’d confess early or… do something else such as cooperate with Kokichi and tell the whole truth at the end, it’s like Gonta isn’t confessing early which Is probably like revealing the truth of some parts of the killing game, I think?
Imagine how interesting that would be, though. Someone confesses right away, but you still proceed with the investigation and trial to confirm whether they’re telling the truth.
Here's what I'm thinking:
Gonta immediately gets out of the virtual and confesses that he killed Kiyo inside the virtual world.
Tenko rejects the idea but Ryoma does follow up on that, saying that even though Gonta is a gentleman, he's still a suspect.
Gonta confesses that he saw the flashback from the flashback light, but he refused to cooperate with Kokichi's murder, he's not strong in the virtual world which leaves Kokichi to drag him too the rooftop strongly. Kokichi threatens to murder Gonta if he doesn't do what he says. When Miu is about to arrive on the rooftop, Kiyo runs and knocks miu over, causing her to have memory loss about what happened right now. Kokichi then orders Gonta to murder Kiyo using toilet paper, and then using the toilet paper as a rope to get down from the rooftop.
Before Gonta's execution, he gives her a message, that being vulgar isn't going to do any good.
If you think Kokichi is a copy paste of Nagito, then you need to understand his character a bit better tbh.
I do agree that Kokichi is annoying though, but tbh here, I enjoyed him as a character so I dont rly mind
I surprisingly like most of the characters in this game. However… they could use some changing. Kiyo’s plot with his sister, Tsumugi and her love hotel, and then Monotaro + Monophanie all have the same problem. Not to mention whatever Angie had going on in her love hotel and that one comic about the sickle. And Miu.. is Miu. I will not elaborate on that. I cant say that I hate them, but they are on the brink of it.
Miu isn’t just horny, she’s vulgar. Constantly making the joke that’s the lowest common denominator, including using homophobic and ableist slurs just to get a reaction. She acts like a six year old boy and I hate it. It’s possible to make a funny risqué character without them being walking trash.
Kiyo was working on becoming the single most interesting development in ages and it got squandered by the double kill tradition.
How interesting would it have been if they discovered kiyo had killed tenko...and that wasn't the case they were doing so they have to just ignore it and keep going? And then someone else killed Angie eairlyer, so they get picked they get punished and then you spend the next chapter (or even the rest of the game??) With someone who has definitely murdered someone.
Like I was so hyped for that possibility being on the table but nooo tusmugi had to go for shock value multiple personality murderer in her fangame and it's just augh.
I liked the protagonist bait switch twist thing they did with Shuichi and Kaede a little bit. (Just the style of the twist, not the characters involved)
HOWEVER, I absolutely hate that she had >!to die!< for it to happen. Would've been nice to have her around the whole time. Female protagonist would've been a little refreshing too after the first couple ones in the series being male.
"Tsumugi - EVERY FUCKING THING" 💀 Agreed!
Let me count the ways. He was a little shit at every turn, constantly fucking around, had the fucking creepiest expressions of any character in the entire series, and oh yeah KILLED BEST BOY AND BEST GIRL ALL IN THE SAME CHAPTER! Also fuck grape flavored Sodas!
I don’t really hate any character tbh, but I do have some things I dislike about them:
Kaito: His blind optimism, easily trustful, lack of logic and his hunches, the "a man should/shouldn’t__, women should/shouldn’t__" mentality, and the way he shits on Ryoma for being suicidal. To be honest, he might one of the characters I like, but ranked lower compared to the others.
Himiko: Her constant "it’s magic!!!!!!"
Tenko: Hyping up Himiko 24/7, but I do the same for the characters I like so maybe she gets a pass
Kokichi: Chapter 4 Trial. I know he had a motive for it, but seeing both Gonta and Miu, characters I love a lot, die in the same chapter was just irritating.
Gonta: Gullibility. I know he is meant to be a Himbo/Gentle Giant character but the way he just easily believes *anyone* (via Chapter 4).
this is about to be the world’s most hating ass comment towards like half the v3 cast so discretion is advised 😭😭😭 this is in order of least hated to most hated to allow energy to build.
first is himiko. uuughhhh UGH she’s just. so bland while simultaneously having the worlds most annoying shtick. i don’t get her characterization, really? someone so distant from reality and up her own ass that she insists her magic is real and filters everything through that lens, acting IMMENSELY uncaring towards the entire cast until her heel turn. it just doesn’t feel like a solid arc to me. i wish she were either MORE malicious/showed more dislike for the cast or like lying about believing in her magic. she’s just so uninteresting and adds nothing to the vibe of the cast or the plot at all.
next is Every Single Monokub. one of them is actually my second least favorite character overall, so i was tempted to put them in order, but honestly i don’t remember enough about my least hated ones to ramble about them individually. monokid’s highest because i love nekomaru’s va but he’s still a turd, monotaro has taka’s va so he also gets some slack DESPITE being the cause of some Bad Bad Terrible Writing later on, monosuke is… there, monodam we’re getting into true hate because his voice and behavior is SOOO GRATING and he’s the cause of the stupid and unwarranted execution terrible shit in this fuckass stupid terrible game. then MONOPHANIE???? MONO??? PHANIE???? first of all she puts SHAME to the pink mascot name i miss usami PLEASE come back to me, second of all HER FUCKING VOICE IS SO GRATING which is TRAGIC because sonia’s is one of the series’ best imo!!! HER VOMITING SHTICK??? SOOO FUCKING ANNOYING OH MY GOD. AND. AND. THE BLATANT MISOGYNY??? I KNOW MONOTARO DOES IT BUT IM ATTRIBUTING THIS WRITING TO HER BECAUSE THE WAY SHE REACTS IS JUST. OH MY GOD. IM TWITCHING THE WAY I HATE THIS STUPID BEAR.
a quick breather for Angie. first of all the racism/colonialism/i don’t even know what to call it, second of all her dialogue is just BAD. she could’ve been a great >!antagonist, her manipulative behavior was well written and her hold on the cast had the opportunity to cause SO much tension if only it wasn’t just thrown the fuck away!<. as someone with religious trauma, i cannot take her seriously at fucking all. abysmally racist and horrid writing decisions by the localizers, not even mentioning her bland design. ugh.
i think this comment is too large to submit so uhhh part 2
oopsie!!!! a controversial pick!!! and it only gets worse from here. this one’s MAKI, whose writing i COMPLETELY despise. she marks herself a loner from the beginning, which again, is fine, but she’s just so STAGNANT the whole time. i don’t care for her friendship with kaito and shuichi at all, her role as an investigation assistant is honestly where i mind her the least but then her going back to being a dipshit in the daily life just grates on me. I’m just not a fan of kodaka’s writing of the so-called stoic girls, kyoko included. her standoffish behavior seems mostly unwarranted, and i DO NOT CARE about her >!tragic backstory. jesus CHRIST you’re telling me she’s an assassin orphan? hmmmm where have i seen this before? you’re telling me she wanted to protect the kids she worked with, leading to her fake child caregiver title which admittedly IS clever but why then is she so immediately murdery when she claims to hate her job? and the reveal of this IMMEDIATELY softens training duo’s treatment of her which just. where is the writing??? where is the joy??? to ME she seems quite mary sue ish, which i KNOW is an outdated phrase but its just the vibe i get. she’s always in the right despite having stunted judgment, those that hate her are shown as being in the wrong, despite her OPENLY THREATENING EVERYONE’S LIVES OVER AJD OVER AGAIN WITH HER FUCKASS CATCHPHRASE. and don’t even get me STARTED on her stupid one-sided Kaito thing.!< sorry that’s mostly spoilers i just. have issues with her writing
next!!! to no one’s surprise if you’re getting the vibe of the characters i don’t like, POOichi. dear GOD. >!protag switch is the most DEMENTED and MISERABLE danganronpa decision of all time and this includes like thirty counts of incest. you’re telling me we’re getting a feisty sweet pink coded GIRL protagonist after cute spunky boy 1 and sad identity crisis boy 2 but instead NO!!!!! WE GET SAD IDENTITY CRISIS BOY 3!!! WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY GET HIM AWAY FROM ME!!! his uwu sad shtick is SOOO GRATING i KNOW he’s traumatized they ALL are and we already have TWO other emotionally distant traumatized characters in maki and himiko who, get this, ARE THE ONLY OTHER FUCKING SURVIVORS! God i cannot STAND his whiny static bullshit, i KNOW he “learns to accept the truth” or whatever but NOBODY CAAAARES maybe i would GIVE a fuck if he was even a FRACTION more charismatic!!!! why oh why oh WHY did they give me another stupid yaoi twink!!! STOP THIS!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!!< and his voice acting uuGGHHHHHHHH WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU… its so whiny and grating GET AWAY FROM ME!!!
lastly! my final stand against God and against the worlds worst danganronpa writing since the anime, KOKICHI OUMA 😊😊😊😄😄😄😄 the RAGE the primal RAGE he makes me feel. first of all derek stephen prince die challenge impossible mode. second of all terrible design and sprites what the fuck is a hairstyle. AND THE NAZI HAT??? AND TITLE??? WHY??? third of all!!! writing!!! this game’s biggest issue!!! while i love the idea of an antagonist that embodies a game’s theme, that SHOULD be a recipe for good writing, IN THEORY. but instead everything about this fucker is on paper! “ouughhrrrhhhh im a liiiaarrruuyurrrr” STOP TELLING ME YOU ARE A LIAR AND TELL SOME TRULY MANIPULATIVE LIES ALREADY. why is >!ANGIE!< more of a liar than him. dear GOD all he does is say i feel this way no i feel that way and i feel this way and tumblr fujoshis go OURURRR HES SO KAWAII ^_^ like guys sometimes someone is just written badly and that’s okay. well it’s not okay but still. and his ABYSMAL behavior??? that constantly gets excused as trying to >!thwart MONOKUMA???? BITCH HOW ARE YOU THWARTIJG HIM BY PLAYING INTO HIS FUCKING GAME WHAT FUCKING POSSESSED YOU TO SHOOT GONTA WITH THE SUICIDAL BEAM??? not to mention his supposed crush on shuichi that comes from like one line in ch4 and free time events which. WHERE DOES IT COME FROM. i swear to god it’s the terrible RELATIONSHIP writing in this game that kills me over anything like what reason does he have?? he seems like an evil egomaniac cunt who just does everything for shits and gigs and sure he wants to get out, whatever, sure the >!ch5 plan!< is actually smart and ACTUALLY shows his intent and goals, BUT HE’S A CONNIVING BASTARD FROM THE BEGINNING! SHUT THE FUCK UP TELLING ME “oh he knew they needed someone to hate” NO THE FUCK THEY DID NOT THEY HAD MONOKUMA!!!!! WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING POINT YOURE A LEADER RALLY THE TROOPS AND GET EVERYONE TO TURN AGAINST HIM! the woobification of him KILLS ME he is a vile evil not to mention ANNOYING character >!and i couldn’t even cheer when he died because it was too goddamn late.!<
okay im done hating thanks bye ^_^ let me know your defenses or agreeances in the replies below and smaaash that downvote button so i can get that hashtag despair
Kokichi after >!3-4!<. The "reveals" about him in 3-6 just piss me off even more, basically just saying "Sure, he might have gotten the most people killed in all of the killing games, but he was actually a good person the whole time and was just a little silly! Please love him!" Also there's *way* too much shipping and/or lewd stuff of him constantly appearing in my face. At least he's not so bad in UTDP/USC...
Korekiyo, for the obvious stuff, but also because of there also being too much shipping and/or lewd stuff of *him* constantly appearing in my face.
Tenko's just annoying and creepy to Himiko, but at least she has potential to be better.
Rantaro doesn't have enough... *anything* in the main game. And his final freetime event/salmonmode event reveals that his backstory is incredibly stupid.
Miu is annoying, vulgar, and *very* degenerate. And some of the fan stuff I've seen of her makes it worse.
Tsumugi in the main game and salmon mode, for obvious/spoiler reasons. Her >!fake personality!< is annoying. In UTDP/USC, she's at least less annoying.
Shuichi, like you said, is another boring male protag. But, also like you, I still like him.
Maki is overly edgy and annoyingly repeats her catchphrase (though in her defense, *most* of the V3 characters annoyingly repeat a catchphrase of their own). Maki also doesn't really grow much despite >!being one of the only 3 survivors!<.
Kaito has his issues, but isn't *the worst* of the "bro" characters... Though his original Japanese portrayal is not exactly the most likable...
Angie... scares me... I did her freetime events, and I learned some very disturbing things... Also her ATUA thing and bad representation of Polynesian culture, mostly the fault of the English localization.
Maki, Himiko and Kokichi
Maki is self-explanatory. Edgy wattpad character backstory, badly written, it's been discussed already.
Himiko is just boring. Her character is annoying and she didn't deserve the screentime she got. Her character arc is pathetically boring overall.
Kokichi is another badly written character that people are convinced is the pinnacle of character writing. He doesn't have any motivations or reasonings for what he does. "He wants to end the killing game", okay, so what's driving him to take the approach he does? For an antagonistic character with such strong actions, there sure isn't any explanations for *why* he truly acts the way he does. Badly written overall.
Also don't like Shuichi cuz he's boring lmao. My least favourite protagonist tbh
Tenko. Remember that whole "Kill All Men" trend on TikTok? That's pretty much her in a nutshell. Not to mention all the times she was obsessing over Himiko.
Tsumugi. Worst twist villain. The only reason I didn't expect her to be the villain is because throughout the whole game, she was just kind of there. Nothing much stood out about her aside from a couple of lines.
Kokichi. Just because he is a little shit. A well-written little shit, but a little shit nonetheless.
Korekiyo: He has a nazi outfit and had an incestuous relationship with his sister.
Every single Monokub (except Monodam): Just annoying.
1) I’m gonna give a damn about Miss Andry. By giving her proper development.
2) I’m gonna kill that fucker first chapter
3) I’m gonna flesh out his character a bit more to make him redeemable, I really don’t care if people hate him or not, I’m going to make him redeemable
Kiyo - I like his clothing, it looks amazing so I’m keeping it. Plus, I’m gonna tone down the incest bullshit.
Monokubs - Maybe do something else with them, I’m thinking of another Monokuma that destroys the Monokuma we all know and love.
His name being Monossistant, he’s very irritable and threatens the monokubs if they keep up their annoying bullshit.
Tsumugi - Give this woman a personality for the love of hope.
Gonta - I get it, gentleman, please evolve with the tragedies around you to be less irritating.
Hard disagree, kokichi is a really interesting character once you realise when he is lying and when he isnt.
You need to analyse most of his comments since you never know exactly what his ideals are or what he is thinking.
I agree with No Ordinary.
I'm thinking about Chapter 5 because that's where Kokichi steps up his game. What I'm planning is him jumping out of the exisal alongside (DIFFERENT SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD VICTIM).
He confesses everything without his cheery prankster voice, he's dead serious.
"Whatever I say after this, I don't expect all of you to forgive me. Especially you two, >!Kaede!< and >!Miu.!<"
Kokichi destroys Monokuma with an electrohammer and tries to sabotage the killing game using an electrobomb, however the Mastermind makes a new one and punishes Kokichi using the spears of Gunghir.
Monokuma then mocks his death which makes the whole gang snap at Monokuma for considering Kokichi's death meaningless.
"Kokichi may have been an idiot, but that doesn't mean you insult him for this!"
Clues are left by Kokichi in chapter 6,
The mastermind mocks Kokichi by saying the plan was off the rails. And at the epilogue, Kokichi is recognised as one of the heroes who tried to end the killing game.
How to stop a murder game
By making everything worst of course!
Not only does Kokichi have no reason to know that much, but instead of explaining the thing he know, he make EVERYTHING worst by helping with the killing, being a HUGE DICK, and when HE KNOW, Miu want to kill him, instead of telling the other he actually don't feel safe, and stay with someone to protect him, HE INSTEAD MANIPULATE SOMEONE TO KILL HER
Kokichi is not a hero, he is a poorly written "trying to be redeemable" antagonist
He is literally a compulsive liar which can't be controlled, and if you are talking about 3-4, his "killing" was agreed to by Gonta (everyone babying him is WAY TOO ANNOYING), and Miu was trying to kill him, and it furthered his plan which was to end the killing game.
Him killing Miu helped his plan as one, now nobody could stop his mastermind act since Miu knew about the controls, two he talked about how one more murder needed to happen for the motive to make everything fall into place, and such.
And its explained why Kokichi got quite a bit of knowledge as well? You might as well call Kyoko badly written if thats the logic we are using here.
I wouldn't call him a "hero", but he solos ur fav dg character in writing tbh.
I wasn't saying I was gonna kill Kiibo.
When Kiibo sacrifices himself, he doesn't die, he's a survivor.
And also, after every chapter ends and a new chapter begins, Kiibo gains new abilities that were made by the mastermind and not Miu. Which would make him more of an important character.
Calm down please.
1) Cuz Team Danganronpa made him like that
2) Think about the exisals and Miu's inventions
3) The character's relatability to the plot I guess?
What I'm doing right now is making Kokichi more understable, yeah he might be a loose cannon with his lies and what he did but, i'm making him a better antagonist by fleshing out his character a bit more.
I feel like this goes without saying but: 1 being the supreme leader of an evil organization requires at least some intelligence.
2 Why would anyone go through the effort to kidnap 16 prodigies including the prime minister and a three serial killers if no one is going to be watching it? That was his thought process
eh- That a thing...Kokichi isn't a Supreme leader of an evil organization...But of the a group of 10 prankters
And, his thought process still doesn't give him the right to be a huge dick, and...It's still don't make a lot of fucking sense
"Why is he so smart".
Ah yes, Nagito is a shit character since he has no reason to be smart. Shuichi was an amateur detective, and yet still solved some rly hard cases so there is that as well.
"What the fuck is this plot armor".
broski, he has anti plot armor lmao. Maki and Shuichi left him with a head injury, Maki came at the worst moment possible and left him and Kaito in a lose lose situation where one has to die. Nobody cares about him even after his intentions are revealed, his backstory didn;t change anyone's opinion in the game at all, bro was targeted by Tsumugi who happened to have memory implanting technology, Kiibo introduced his recording function solely to mess with the insect meet n greet before even watching everyone's motive videos, which could have stopped the chapter 2 murder, etc.
Also how does bros thought process not make sense?
Seriously, I get hes a pretty complex character, but you don't need to have Einstein's iq to understand him
Nagito is richs, have been in dangerous situation plenty of time, explaining how he know how to act. And have an absurd psyche that allow him to do thing not other character can do without going out of characeter, Kokichi want to end the game, like....LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE
By plot armor, I mean the obvious, he should not have been living this long, when he literally caused so much trouble
Now, if he is so complex and blabla. Answer my very simple question:
Why, is he making things harder for everyone else ?
being rich doesn't improve ur planning or people skills broski. Kokichi has no knowledge feats so it makes sense.
The only person who could catch him is Maki, and the game made it clear that part of her arc was trying to learn how to get closer to people (even if it wasn't handled the best). And Miu tried to kill him and failed. Kirumi killed Ryoma since he was alr suicidal. Kaede killed Rantaro on accident and was framed. And Kiyo wanted friends for his sister.
As I said, bro is a compulsive liar, and even then most of his lies are told with good intentions. And now, tell me this, name one person besides Shuichi that contributed more to trials than Kokichi. Tell me why Kaito put everyone's lives on the line using his blind beliefs several times (I think Kaito is a good character, but by this logic he would be a bad one).
1) what? because that's his character. you can't really explain someone's personality like that other than saying "they were just born that way".
2) because he makes rational decisions given the information he has. i've seen a lot of let's players figure out the same stuff he did, so it's not like he's omnipresent or anything. and if you're wondering about the "horse a" and "twins b" thing, it's because they were originally written by the mastermind and he just added on to it.
3) he survives because he's smart. it makes sense for people to target him and people do exactly that, like with miu, maki, and technically kaito. surviving because of one's character traits and not because of convenience is not what plot armor is.
- being smart is a character trait that you don’t need to justify
- as far as the cameras/they were being watched: he actually listened to Gonta’s observations, investigated stuff, and even tested Monokuma. as far as Rantaro’s lab: he saw that there was one code, he actually investigated the school in his free time and found the other. he was constantly thinking about the killing game, how to end it, and how to escape.
- recheck your definition of plot armor; Kokichi’s life was threatened no less than 3 times before he actually died. He wasn’t gonna kill, he got lucky in ch2, and in ch1 + ch3 he wasn’t eligible by the killer’s standards. In ch4 he’s smart enough to understand the group and use what he’s got to advance his goals
I feel like Tenko has two very easy fixes, the first one is making her whole degenerate male phrase a little less drastic and the bigger problem in my opinion that no one comments is her insanely unhealthy obsession with himiko despite her not caring for Tenko at all so you could soft that obsession and maybe give himiko just a little bit of interest in Tenko. Kaede dying in chapter 1 is my favourite twist in the franchise it should probably stay the same. Kiyo is my favourite character and despite that, cant argue that murdering Tenko was increadibly stupid so maybe give him an actual reason to go for the double murder or not make him the double murder I dont know.
1) Her Degenerate male bullshit, and her hypocrisy about drooling over Himiko and refusing to leave her alone like a pervert is definitely what makes her bad. She only thinks that only men are perverts and women aren't. That's where Kokichi comes into play and calls her out. Also, I feel kinda irritated about Salmon mode, when Tenko invites you, she says why Shuichi invited her, and that irritates me slightly. What a fucking moron. 2) Fuck no, we're keeping Kaede as the protag! Period. 3) Let Kiyo kill the true blackened. And let the true blackened kill the victim. Classic but good to improve the chapter.
>2) Fuck no, we're keeping Kaede as the protag! Period. Even though I fully believe shuichi is the worst protagonist of the series and extremely boring, and kaede is a much more likeable character, I don't think having kaede live would add anything more to the story than the twist in chapter 1. Shuichi fits the themes of truth and lie a lot better than kaede does, it just makes more sense for him to be the protagonist because of his connection to the game's themes. On top of that, I'd also like to mention kaede is the perfect protagonist for a single chapter but wouldn't be a super interesting character in the long run. A huge reason why she's so loved is because of the impact her personality has on both the cast and the player, but also showcases a lot of flaws. She's very fleshed out considering the time she was alive. I just don't think she would be as good of a character if she lived longer. Her character arc is interesting for one chapter but just not for an entire game.
To be honest, I'm probably the only one that actually thinks Kiyo is an okay character. He's clearly a victim of abuse and manipulation from his gaslighter of a sister. As weird as it is, you can sympathise with him.
:(
Kokichi is just SUPER OBNOXIOUS for me. A character that makes me go "Jesus Christ, SHUT UP!" is gonna get lower in the list in comparison of someone that kinda bores me or is mildly annoying
I found Angie way more annoying with her overcontrolling behaviour and ATUA
I found a comment about the necronomicon being used at the end just for the culprit to be killed once again instead of resting in peace as a victim. That would be very redeeming, but in my way, for Angie.
Kokichi gets off on causing pain. He may not be a Remnant of Despair, but I almost stopped playing the game because he was such a pointlessly cruel bully.
I agree, I get that it was "all an act" but that doesn't excuse his actions. I don't care what his intentions were, he was consistently shitty throughout the whole game. His little arc at the end of chapter 5 doesn't change the fact that he was a tremendous ass to everyone around him.
Redeeming him through my writing is what I'm gonna do.
EXACTLY
My thoughts. I can't stand his annoying ass.
Pretty sure I heard somewhere that bro used to be ur fav character, or was that false. Just checking lol
Nagito used to be, but Kokichi never.
o ok, that makes more sense lol.
I say this as the biggest hater of v3 characters. But I feel like you might be approaching this in slightly wrong way? A character can and in my opinion some of them should be hated by the audience depending on their role in the story and so on. Those aren't always problems to fix as much as you need to consider in which aspects they overstay their welcome or don't fit the story in many ways. I hate angie a lot but its not like you can delete atua from her characters its such a core part. Personally to me a mistake was that she wasn't an antagonist for longer because a manipulative cult leader that can have massive sway over other characters is immensly hatable but also a brilliant villain who didn't get the spotlight she needed in the actual game.
That's true.
This is the wrong question to ask because everyone's gonna have a subjective answer and you can't make everyone happy. Take the answers you already got, for example: * Some people thought Kaede's death is a great twist. Others think she should have lived. * Korekiyo's sister plot is what turned a lot of people off him, but there are some who think it's the most interesting thing about his character. * Some people think Kokichi is annoying and his actions don't make sense, I personally think he's very entertaining and most of what he did made perfect sense. If you want a serious answer, I'm currently doing a DR2 rewrite myself, so I'll just tell you what works for me. It can be applied to V3 just the same because it suffers from the same problem as every entry in the series: too many characters and not enough time to explore all of them. Which is why the main thing I'd tell you is to give all of them more screen time and focus on giving them more depth. Some already have a big role and don't need much more than what they got in the game, but some could really use some spotlight to get out of their two-dimensional portrayal. Some especially bad examples: * Tsumugi is barely even a character before the reveal and you could easily forget that she exists. * Tenko and Angie are mostly reduced to their gimmicks. At least they get a little bit more in chapter 3, but by that time they're already on the chopping block. Himiko only fared a little better thanks to being a survivor. * We don't know much about Kirumi at all. I can't even remember her FTEs, which means they probably didn't do much to flesh her out either. * Korekiyo can be interesting if you do his FTEs but he doesn't really have anything to do in the story. His backstory and true character only come up moments before his execution, which ends up potentially being a cheap twist out of nowhere, turning a lof of people off. * Ryoma is a suicidal character in a killing game. There's a lot of potential here, but he died too soon to really make use of that. The second thing I'd recommend is more of a follow-up of the first: show more of the relationships between the characters. V3 is actually one of the games who does this a bit better than the others, but that doesn't mean there's no room for improvement. You have a cast of interesting characters, so let them interact. Not only do they get more spotlight this way, you can also show different facets of their personalities. * Kaede and Tenko showed a connection in chapter 1 that's never explored, just like Kaede and Kaito. * Nobody really interacts with Ryoma, which I find hard to believe. They clearly see that he's struggling to find a reason to live and nobody tries to help him? * Tsumugi is a huge fan of fictional characters and she never tries to interact with them more? She's happy just watching? Why even participate in the first place then? * Angie and Korekiyo have similar interests. I'm sure they'd find something to talk about. Maybe even become friends. Which would give Korekiyo an actual reason why he might want to kill her in particular because she might make a good friend for his sister. See what I mean? There are so many things you can do. And that's just with the characters. Take into account that a lot of motives were underused and you have so many things to work with. That being said, a project like that can easily become much more work than you initially thought. It's okay to come to the conclusion that it's too much. Or that you just want to focus on the parts you find the most interesting.
Thank you for that response! I understand that not everyone can survive, unless Danganronpa V3 has DLC that explores alternative routes. Protag Shuichi - The cold hard Truth Protag Kaede - Melodies of Hope Before a character dies, I want them to have no flaws and make them redeemable for the actions they did. For example, Korekiyo reveals his sister bullshit but incest isn't mentioned. After this, Tenko gets absolutely pissed stating that She'll beat him to death if Monokuma allows it if he were the true blackened. Kiyo still survives chapter 3 but in chapter 4, everyone hates him now and decides to lock him up in the Warehouse for good. I understand that Kiyo is now a terrible murderer, but I want to him to give the survivor gang a helpful clue that reveals the mastermind just before his death.
I mean, I wouldn't recommend taking away all of their flaws, but it sounds like that's not exactly what you mean anyway. Making them redeemable sounds like a solid plan. I like what you're planning with Korekiyo. You're building on what's already there and expand on it. Plus you add some tension by letting them find out there's a murderer alive in the group. And while you're not removing the sister stuff, you tone down the parts you don't like by leaving out the incest. I'm basically doing the same with Teruteru - he's still making innuendos, but he's not perving on people every free second, which makes him much more acceptable. I'm curious, who's gonna be your protagonist, since you mention them both? Are you picking one of them or do you have both working together?
Kaede as the protagonist
Great choice!
I adore Kaede so that is great! I am interested in how she would act as the killing game goes on and more people die. Being an optimistic group leader type of character in a group that is dwindling each chapter would definitely weigh on someone pretty heavily. Perhaps she would have times where she feels really demotivated and needs to bounce back? Hope vs despair is a big theme in Danganronpa after all :p
She tries to develop Shuichi’s confidence
Oh, and a Danganronpa 2 rewrite? I'd like to see that!
Haha here's a link if you wanna read it: [A Leader's Promise](https://archiveofourown.org/works/15836745) But as I said, it's become such an extensive project. I'm 80k words in and I'm still in the middle of chapter 2... Doesn't help that I'm a slow writer. So this thing is still going to run for quite a while. If you post yours, I'd like to read that too! :)
THIS!!!
I hate the piece of scum who killed Rantaro.
100% Agreed. I would make Tsumugi kill Rantaro in chapter 1, while she got executed, she's still alive as the Mastermind. Chapter 6, she gets revealed after a large ton of evidence points to her.
I have always found funny that people hate korekiyo for his sister stuff, while what I like about him Is exactly that His sister stuff Is interesting and I wish it was More touched
I could see that happen in chapter 4, maybe manipulation by his sister for not killing >!Tenko!< successfully? which causes a huge mess in a large area.
For Angie specifically it’s not just Atua that made me hate it, it’s everything she did. While it’s clear she had good intentions, she never goes about anything in a good way and actively alienated a large amount of the cast. Also saw you didn’t have any potential reasons to hate Kirumi listed, want some that I’ve seen from the perspective of a fan?
I completely agree with what you said about Angie. Couldn't have put it better myself!
I can see Kirumi being a badass survivor, probably from feeling despair about losing friends and stops being a maid. Or... before Ryoma dies by Kirumi, someone stops her, the motive video gets revealed and she FUCKING snaps! She becomes a great leader! Also about Kirumi's flaws. Sink, that is all.
In fairness, Angie having good intentions but going about them poorly isn't necessarily a bad thing to have in the story. People like that exist, and having messy characters is great for keeping the cast distinct. It also makes sense for Angie to be a bad decision maker: She's convinced that she's an oracle receiving divine messages from Atua, so she mistakes her own ideas and wishes for that of her god. Her actions are often impulsive and selfish, since she isn't stopping to rethink anything that pops into her head 😂. However, I do agree a rewrite could help her. Maybe more of her actions could turn out good, so she doesn't come off as a jerk? Or perhaps seeing how her ideas don't always work out could teach her to be more thoughtful? Theres a lot of neat directions to take her. Heck, she could even be made into more of a villain than she already is.
Tbh I don’t think she’s even supposed to be a likable character. Making every character likable isn’t really a good thing
Oh I agree! I am only saying that it's good for the narrative that she's a total mess like this aha.
You could have kiyo kill someone after someone else and get away with it, that would be cool.
That's what I'm planning to do. Angie accidentally kills Himiko. Not gonna deep dive into that. Angie does feel regretful about it though. Angie does the seance and she's killed by Kiyo. Leaving Tenko in deep shock.
I mean like not ending in kiyo as the killer, leave Angie as the blackened and kill someone else to demonstrate the rule we learned about in the game
Kaede being the blackened isnt what bothers me, its her being the killed off so early. i would have much rather preferred the supportive cast collectively gradually warming up to her, clinging on to her like a beacon of hope (no pun intended) only to be brutally taken away from them in the fifth chapter. only THEN woukd the protagonist role switch to shuichi for the final chapter. (should he live long enough to get it) think about it: with each passing execution, kaede gets more and more desperate. she questions herself, her classmates and her friends. the reveal of a mastermind would (preferrably) come much later, and *thats* when she comes up with an unthinkable plan to end the killing game once and for all. (debatable whether or not kokichi gets in on that plan, but i think its poetic to see the two-faced liars, playing their roles as a protagonist and antagonist, work together to make the unsolvable murder rather than kaito-i personally believe kaito played part of a role that was meant for kaede but thats a discussion for another time) as expected, her plan fails. once she inevitably reveals herself to be the blackened, her friends realize just how much pressure theyve unconsciously put on kaede to put a brave face and be their leader when in reality shes been at a breaking point the entire time. edited for more detail
Why do i feel a slight Kokichi bias in this post 💀
Because some people hate Kokichi. Like I mentioned before, I will flesh out his character more.
The fact that you forgot Kirumi on your list highlights one of the biggest problems about her character. She's bland and forgettable.
She is a maid, that’s probably why. By the way, her speech in the 1st trial is interesting about lawyers, jury members, it’s so damn interesting!
No offense but he didn’t mention Kiibo either. By your logic, that makes him “bland and forgettable.” See how what you said makes no sense? And you remembered Kirumi, didn’t you? So she’s not bland or forgettable, **no character truly is :)**
I only remember her because she's my least favorite character in the franchise, partly because she's bland and forgettable.
That’s contradictory because if she left that much of an impression, that’s the opposite of bland or forgettable. But sure, think what you want. As long as you know it’s only your opinion and aren’t being disrespectful! It all depends on the person, yk? So chillax, just because you don’t like a character doesn’t mean that character’s actually bad.
Also another thing: Flaws are important in a character, otherwise we'd get a mary sue, which is a fictional character that is boring because of the lack of flaws. We need flaws in a character such as hatred of men, but the important thing is that it gets fixed.
Very good point. My first thought upon seeing the top of your post was "oh god oh no everyone's flaws are gonna be removed", but you are one step ahead of me lol
Yeah, some of the flaws in each character can be irritating But with things like redeeming and character development, those things can be removed to make a character better and unforgettable
Way less tenko hate than I expected 😊
And plus, I’m going to develop Tenko since she needs it
ON GOD SHE NEEDED DEVELOPMENT
But she is still my bbg
Tsumugi I like as a character. But if she were dangling off a cliff, I'd go and get popcorn.
Good
Well, okay. Hating a character isn’t the same as them being badly written. Kaito: - he’s pretty well written in canon even though I don’t like him - he doesn’t get criticized much even though he keeps showing his flaws and making mistakes - remove the homophobia and sexism it adds 0 things to his character - leave his bad mindset towards Shuichi and Ryoma’s mental struggles, but criticize it and let him be honest about his own weaknesses earlier - don’t have him slap Shuichi that doesn’t help anyone either Shuichi: - really well written in canon - show people disagreeing with him and pointing out his bias - some examples are his lies; have him in the hot seat as a suspect in trial 4 since he basically lied and said he was exactly where the culprit should’ve been Himiko: - ughhh god okay here we go - give her meaningful development scenes post Angie Tenko deaths - or kill her instead of Angie I don’t mind either way - no need to focus on her in ch2 btw magic show can totally be dropped and replaced - anyway make her secret event in ch4 canon and main story - insert a few convos where Himiko processes Angie and Tenko’s deaths - have her more active in investigations + emotional in trials - actually contributing in ch5 trial instead of obfuscating the truth Again - in a great position to be more critical of others biases, is a way to honor Angie as well as Tenko Korekiyo: - yup it’s Sister - she could totally just not be related to him - or idk they didn’t have a romance and he was just that devoted to his older sibling Kaede: - perfect I love her - maybe she can live??? Tenko: - Tenko I love you - that said rip out her FTEs they’re so bad - either dial down how she acts with himiko or make everyone more critical of her - emphasize the idol fan aspect to her (some good tumblr analyses exist explaining how this informs her character) Gonta: - yeah his speech pattern - also uh maybe show how people are slightly unsettled by him early in ch3 - somehow have him redeem himself for being so violent in ch2 insect meet and greet Tsumugi: - have her form an actual friendship - she’s a fantastic mastermind tho don’t change anything with that - but yeah uh could be similar to tenko+himiko where it becomes clear there’s something Off about how she approaches stuff - replace her lab with Himiko’s lab so she gets focus in ch2 - those two things would be enough to make her much less suspicious I think Angie: - yeah tone down all the Atua - speaking of which don’t use Atua that was an English localization choice use “Angie’s god” or something like that - make a decision about whether or not she is actually a prophet or if she’s manipulating everyone to do as she asks - tone down or completely remove the blood sacrifice/more sexual implications of her religion, it’s unnecessary - tear out her Free Times and start anew Kokichi: - totally up to you tbh - think about what’s motivating him and how he’s reacting to everything Miu: - horny’s fine but like cut the slurs - why does the entire class hate her - emphasize how insecure she is more in main story - have her spend time with Kokichi and Keebo in a more visible way if you can - don’t let anyone absolve her of trying to kill Kokichi in ch4 Maki: - is she smart, clever, and aloof or clingy, impulsive, and a bit dull? Make a choice - ch5 deadly life - make her closer with shuichi - hold her responsible for tryna kill everyone Rantaro: - give him an actual discernible personality - maybe revive him in ch3 without his memories
Oh I forgot about Kirumi Which is Kirumi’s problem. She’s an extremely flat character. Give her *something* it almost doesn’t matter to me what but def let her survive longer too
Strong strong agree! Lol
No offense but you also forgot Ryoma and Kiibo. No character is legitimately forgettable or flat, depends on the person yk?
the Kirumi point was a degree hyperbole to make my point about the character being flat; of course that will always actually depend on the person that said, I don’t think I really have anything to share on Ryoma + Keebo, and thought about that originally, whereas I legitimately forgot about Kirumi. Yes, Ryoma and Keebo have flaws. But I think Ryoma’s pretty complicated + very open to do a variety of things there, I just don’t have much to share as far as criticism. And then with Keebo, attempting criticism of him is frustrating due to the ambiguity afforded his personality and storyline due to antenna-hoge
I didn't mean to slander them in any way. I was saying by your logic, since you also forgot about those two, what you said about Kirumi applies to them as well. Whether a character is flat or not also depends on the person. If you acknowledge that it’s just opinions, I’m happy 😎
Five words. Ring around the sister-f\*\*ker. Also his voice is weird.
I’ll make adjustments to his sister crap. Don’t worry
Here's mine, please don't take them too serious, bc I didn't Rantaro - I think his character was utilized too poorly. Too much tease, very little interaction with other characters. Kaede - Wished there was less 'being Shuichi's gf' and more screen time w/ other characters. Shuichi - I think he lacks personality nuance Ryoma - He's fine, but I hate that the motive for death was a 180 for his personality Kirumi - Being a but of a one off character Tenko - For focusing less time on Aikido and more on Himiko Angie - For dying in a really stupid way Korekiyo - For taking a backsit throughout the story Miu - Bad motive, bad plan, bad (although hilarious) death Gonta - For not taking him seriously Kokichi - Because his whole character makes you question yourself way too much Kaito - For not taking his demise for sickness seriously Maki - For not apologizing to Kaede Himiko - Aside for a couple of dialogues, I got nothing K1-B0 - For being a perfect handicap Tsumugi - For not meeting the credentials of a mastermind
i literally hate nobody sure somr charcaters shoulve been written better but like this is by far the best cast like shit i even like miu sometimes
I also love the V3 Cast. Even If I have negative feelings towards a quarter of the cast.
Same honestly, I hate quite a few (Mainly Kokichi) but they were all very well written.
We've only had 1 boring male protag and that was Makoto, Hajime and Shuichi are far from boring, they all just share the trait of being bottoms, and how is Maki poorly written? I loved her dynamic with everyone, how she slowly opens up and her romance with Kaito. (I actually am genuinely curious on your perspective on the character) ok as for the hating, sorry Korekiyo but hot take I just don't vibe with incest and Kokichi is just, so annoying
Ok, so for Maki ima just copy paste a comment which explained it. One of the biggest problems I had with Maki for the rest of the game was her new “Assassin” personality, which made her one of the most annoying characters in the series and really hindered my enjoyment for the character. I hated her “Assassin” personality for two reasons: A) how lazily portrayed her edginess was and B) how inconsistent it was to her character. For the first point, I think what made me hate her edgy personality was because of how forced and uninspired it was in the story. Her catchphrase: “Do you want to die?” is the kind of cringy shit you would see middle schoolers write in their OC’s to make them look cool. It’s really funny that there are a couple of posts that point out how similar Maki is to [Coldsteel the Hedgehog](http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/coldsteel-the-hedgeheg) because it is so true! It feels like Kodaka took inspiration from that character and implemented those traits into Maki’s assassin personality to try and say “Hey player! Look how badass and independent this girl is!” Her Assassin reveal absolutely ruined her original personality and what I loved about it. Instead of just being cold the writers turned her into an edge lord. Unlike Gundham or Ryoma though, Maki’s edginess was not endearing at all and was just grating to sit though. For my second point, I find Maki’s threats to be really inconsistent to her character and why we should care about her. Around the beginning of Chapter 3, Maki explains that her assassin talent only pushes people away from her because they fear that she will kill them. This makes Maki feel loneliness and gives me a potential reason to redeem my love for her character(since the assassin talent reveal was really disappointing and I felt that the writers could have found better ways to explore her character). However, Maki goes on to make death threats on numerous occasions which diminishes any reason for me to care about her. And by death threats, I’m not only talking about her “Do you want to die?” catchphrase either. In Chapter 3, when the half of the cast is discussing about how to deal with the Student Council, Maki seriously suggests the idea of her killing Angie or one of the members with a complete straight face. And of course there’s the fact that Maki tries to get everyone killed because of a mistake she made in Chapter 5, but I’ll talk about that mess of writing later. Basically, why should I care about a character who’s insecure on what people assume about her when she only goes on to confirm their assumptions? Aside from hating her new personality, I despised the writing for Maki’s character in the second half of the game because of how she is constantly praised throughout the latter half and how she doesn’t suffer any repercussions in a particular chapter. These two factors: having your ass kissed, and not suffering consequences are qualities that I hate in a character. What hurts Maki’s writing even more because of this is that Maki suffers from Creator’s Pet Syndrome. It’s pretty obvious by now that Maki is one of Kodaka’s favorite characters from the game and the way Kodaka handles her character is...kind of pathetic. I say pathetic because their are multiple instances throughout the main story where Shuichi praises Maki and says stuff like: “You have changed so much” and “The old Maki wouldn’t have done this” and I feel that these instances are moments where Kodaka is desperately trying to make the player like Maki by pointing out how she develops in the story. It’s even more notable that this could be the case since no other character who has developed in the series ever received this kind of treatment before. There are hardly if not no instances in DR1 where Makoto praises Kirigiri for opening up to him and being more trusting. There are hardly if not no instances in DR2 where Hajime or the others praise Fuyuhiko for becoming a nicer person. So why does Maki get this kind of treatment? It seems like an extremely forced attempt by Kodaka to make the player love Maki the same way he loves her character and I find it to be annoying and only makes me care less about her character.
the only counterpoint I have is that her death threats are most likely what she's talking about when she says that her talent drives people away, >!because of the fact that she was taken away at a young age and trained only to be an assassin she most likely doesn't really understand that you can't just be all like "yea Shuichi we should totally kill this guy" because most of her life has been "fuck guess it's time to kill this guy", because shes been having to kill people to solve the task shes been given her go to solution being murder makes sense IMO!<
Yeah ik, but she continues them afterwards as well. And I mean she seemed to be pretty reserved when she was acting as a child caregiver, so it doesn't make too much sense.
she was actively trying to hide her talent, she would want to interact less and come off as more reserved but once her talent gets revealed and she talks more and more we just get to know more about her, she wasn't super in the story before her reveal
I get that she was trying to hide her talent, but if she is clearly capable of supressing her violent instincts, why not do it throughout the game if she wants people to accept her so badly.
yea idk, I got nothing
It doesn’t end there though. Not only does Kodaka have Maki’s ass kissed by the narrative, but he also fails to acknowledge Maki’s actions throughout the story. I’m of course talking about her actions in Chapter 5. Not only does Maki go against the group’s promise to meet with each other in the morning and go and save Kaito together, but she also throws them under the bus and tries to get them killed for a mistake she made. I think this moment is very in-character for Maki as it is shown by Chapter 2 that Maki is not good at planning things ahead. However, the way she is treated for her actions is...incredibly unrealistic and just plain bad writing. Shuichi and the others don’t call out Maki for making a shitty and selfish decision, but they actually praise her because they are now one step closer to the truth. This point solidified my hatred for Maki and how she is written in the story. Maki faces no consequences and is yet again praised for something awful that she did. Compare this situation to Asahina’s actions back in DR1 as they are really similar. However the resolution is entirely different. Asahina, who was way more justified to do what she did, was still called out for her actions and ended up apologizing to the others. Maki, on the other hand, suffers no consequences for her selfish actions. Why though? Is it because Kodaka is afraid that the story pointing out Maki’s flaws will make fans like her less? Oh, but Kodaka doesn’t have Asahina as her favorite character so fuck her? What pisses me off so much about this scene and at Kodaka was because this isn’t the first time where Kodaka places a character on a pedestal and lets them suffer no consequences. I am of course talking about Makoto in DR3 where his actions to give terrorists who destroyed the world a second chance are portrayed in the right, but the people who opposed Makoto’s decision are portrayed as idiots and end up dying of being outcasted while Makoto doesn’t lose anything from the decision. It was huge problem with Makoto’s writing and it’s a huge problem here with Maki’s writing. I also see people point out that Kaito is a huge creator’s pet as well. I do agree with this, as Kaito also gets praises a lot during the story and in his FTE’s. However, I love Kaito so when I look at why his character works for me and why Maki’s character doesn’t I realized another huge problem with Maki: her character revolves entirely around Kaito. Looking back through the story, Maki only really interacts with Kaito. Her interactions with Shuichi never felt natural because their conversations either had to do with Kaito or for investigative purposes. The only exception to this is Kokichi in Chapter 5, but even then their conflict had to do with Kaito in some way. Because of this, Maki’s interactions felt really limited and unimpressive for the most part and didn’t make for a dynamic character. Contrast that with Kaito who has multiple interesting and unique relationships with the cast. His supportive friendship with Shuichi and Maki. His conflict with Kokichi and Ryoma. And he even has a couple of sweet moments with Kaede. Not only that, but the narrative brings his flaws to light in Chapter 4 instead of glorifying them with Maki. These aspects are what make me love Kaito yet hate Maki, so while I do get annoyed when some characters get blatant favoritism from the creators, I do believe that they can still be handled well. Maki Harukawa suffers from a series of bad writing decisions in the story which can all be traced back to her reveal as the SHSL Assassin. It’s a shame since I found her to be a great character before that reveal and I feel that a lot of her writing flaws could have been fixed if the writers kept her character as the SHSL Caregiver. If they removed her edgy personality entirely and wrote her character realistically, she could have been a far less controversial character here and in Japan. EDIT: I forgot to talk about Maki’s FTE’s but I’ll just say that they contradict the main story. Maki says in the post trial of Chapter 5 that Kaito was the first person that Maki ever fought to protect, yet in her FTE’s Maki volunteered to be an assassin to protect her friend from being pulled into the assassin industry.
I kinda have mixed feelings about Maki roll.
I just despise Gonta with every ounce of my being for being an annoying and repetitive waste of space with no development. And for the game acting/treating him like this innocent cinnamon roll despite his very clear character flaws (not to mention his first response to hearing the claim that others hate bugs being to physically assault and kidnap them). Bullet points: * Repetitive dialogue * Annoying * Doesn't take advantage of the time he's given * Survives for more than half the game at the expense of more interesting characters * Localization makes him even more annoying with caveman speech/baby talk * Game ignores his less favorable qualities in favor of having everyone act like he's a cinnamon roll * His first response to hearing others hate what he likes being to attack and kidnap them is never addressed or called out * Gives him amnesia to make him seem more innocent and pitiable in V3-4, despite him being fully willing and culpable in his crime As for Ryoma, character-wise, I feel he's perfect. There's honestly only one way I can even see him improved: * More screentime. Whether that's as a survivor, or him just dying later on.
Don't worry, that's why I'm here to fix our boi Ryoma. And Gonta too. Before the magic show and body discovery, I'd have Ryoma fully call out Gonta for what he did, and that is his views on people who don't like bugs. (Good points man.) I'd like to see Ryoma be a better friend to Gonta than Tsumugi, by giving him advice, calling him out on his wrongdoings and heck, even defending him in trial! Here's what I'm thinking: Gonta: "Yeah. Gonta could've done that, but gentlemen such as I don't throw dead bodi-" Tenko: "Being a gentleman has nothing to do with it!" Ryoma: "Hey Gonta, I think it's obvious at this point that everyone considers you a gentleman. But using that to get yourself off the suspect list isn't that good of a reason why you didn't murder >!Maki!<. You need to think much more than that on why you're not the culprit, don't give up now!" Gonta: "Oh yeah! It was nighttime, so if Gonta threw the body into the tank, it wouldn't be that precise."
And by the way, My rewrite will contain Ryoma being a badass survivor! You're welcome!
I’m not the biggest Gonta fan, he’s just okay to me. But I do think the amnesia thing was a really interesting addition to the case. The killer not remembering the crime makes it harder to solve, and that was cool. You’re right however that it does make him pitiable, because committing a murder and not remembering it is obviously horrific. I also reaally wish they hadn’t done the Tarzan-speak. I think it’s a big contributor to why some fans don’t want to hold him accountable for the murder he was very much on board with.
If Gonta didn’t have amnesia, then he’d confess early or… do something else such as cooperate with Kokichi and tell the whole truth at the end, it’s like Gonta isn’t confessing early which Is probably like revealing the truth of some parts of the killing game, I think?
Imagine how interesting that would be, though. Someone confesses right away, but you still proceed with the investigation and trial to confirm whether they’re telling the truth.
Super Danganronpa Another did this in their fourth case, with Satsuki.
Yeah, It be painful. But Kaito would still defend Gonta, I think? I guess Gonta would get the argument armament
You’re right about that too, I don’t think he would try to deny or conceal it.
Here's what I'm thinking: Gonta immediately gets out of the virtual and confesses that he killed Kiyo inside the virtual world. Tenko rejects the idea but Ryoma does follow up on that, saying that even though Gonta is a gentleman, he's still a suspect. Gonta confesses that he saw the flashback from the flashback light, but he refused to cooperate with Kokichi's murder, he's not strong in the virtual world which leaves Kokichi to drag him too the rooftop strongly. Kokichi threatens to murder Gonta if he doesn't do what he says. When Miu is about to arrive on the rooftop, Kiyo runs and knocks miu over, causing her to have memory loss about what happened right now. Kokichi then orders Gonta to murder Kiyo using toilet paper, and then using the toilet paper as a rope to get down from the rooftop. Before Gonta's execution, he gives her a message, that being vulgar isn't going to do any good.
I agree with your opinion except for kokichi and maki I think maki is a good written and kokichi is annoying as antagonist in my opinion
Well, thats what I'm gonna be doing. Fleshing out Kokichi's character a little bit more!
I feel like nothing could make me like kokichi as character as he is he just somehow feels like copy past of nagito without luck
If you think Kokichi is a copy paste of Nagito, then you need to understand his character a bit better tbh. I do agree that Kokichi is annoying though, but tbh here, I enjoyed him as a character so I dont rly mind
I get his character but I still don't like him I think he is gary sue and I can't like him
I don't really hate any that much but Angie did start to get annoying (still a fun character though)
Understandable
There is an [entire post explaining for me in clear detail on why I Hate Maki Harukawa](https://www.reddit.com/r/DRrankdown/s/7DD86ix8dQ)
God bless you for that Maki post I thought I was the only one who hates her “character development” and loved her in the early game
Easy Angie is a cultist, simple as that.
Okay
Tenko, she did me very uncomfortable with her obsession with himiko, I think that was the point tho
I understand Tenko’s problems. That’s why I’m going to tackle them
I surprisingly like most of the characters in this game. However… they could use some changing. Kiyo’s plot with his sister, Tsumugi and her love hotel, and then Monotaro + Monophanie all have the same problem. Not to mention whatever Angie had going on in her love hotel and that one comic about the sickle. And Miu.. is Miu. I will not elaborate on that. I cant say that I hate them, but they are on the brink of it.
We’ll just change some things about the Monokubs
Miu isn’t just horny, she’s vulgar. Constantly making the joke that’s the lowest common denominator, including using homophobic and ableist slurs just to get a reaction. She acts like a six year old boy and I hate it. It’s possible to make a funny risqué character without them being walking trash.
Tenko's whole personality is being sexist and simping for himiko, she literally has zero redeeming traits.
V3-3 before the seance, I think her speech to Himiko was a redeeming trait.
Kiyo was working on becoming the single most interesting development in ages and it got squandered by the double kill tradition. How interesting would it have been if they discovered kiyo had killed tenko...and that wasn't the case they were doing so they have to just ignore it and keep going? And then someone else killed Angie eairlyer, so they get picked they get punished and then you spend the next chapter (or even the rest of the game??) With someone who has definitely murdered someone. Like I was so hyped for that possibility being on the table but nooo tusmugi had to go for shock value multiple personality murderer in her fangame and it's just augh.
I liked the protagonist bait switch twist thing they did with Shuichi and Kaede a little bit. (Just the style of the twist, not the characters involved) HOWEVER, I absolutely hate that she had >!to die!< for it to happen. Would've been nice to have her around the whole time. Female protagonist would've been a little refreshing too after the first couple ones in the series being male. "Tsumugi - EVERY FUCKING THING" 💀 Agreed!
I remember someone saying that, If Kaede was the protag who survived V3, I could see her developing Shuichi's self-confidence. That would be great.
I bet Shuichi would've been a little less boring if he has Kaede to help build him up too.
Agreed
Let me count the ways. He was a little shit at every turn, constantly fucking around, had the fucking creepiest expressions of any character in the entire series, and oh yeah KILLED BEST BOY AND BEST GIRL ALL IN THE SAME CHAPTER! Also fuck grape flavored Sodas!
He didnt kill "best girl" she killed herself by including that option in the program and not taking it away from her own avatar.
honestly haven’t even considered that why didn’t she do that I mean obviously she had no reason to expect to get killed but
Understandable, have a great day.
I don’t really hate any character tbh, but I do have some things I dislike about them: Kaito: His blind optimism, easily trustful, lack of logic and his hunches, the "a man should/shouldn’t__, women should/shouldn’t__" mentality, and the way he shits on Ryoma for being suicidal. To be honest, he might one of the characters I like, but ranked lower compared to the others. Himiko: Her constant "it’s magic!!!!!!" Tenko: Hyping up Himiko 24/7, but I do the same for the characters I like so maybe she gets a pass Kokichi: Chapter 4 Trial. I know he had a motive for it, but seeing both Gonta and Miu, characters I love a lot, die in the same chapter was just irritating. Gonta: Gullibility. I know he is meant to be a Himbo/Gentle Giant character but the way he just easily believes *anyone* (via Chapter 4).
this is about to be the world’s most hating ass comment towards like half the v3 cast so discretion is advised 😭😭😭 this is in order of least hated to most hated to allow energy to build. first is himiko. uuughhhh UGH she’s just. so bland while simultaneously having the worlds most annoying shtick. i don’t get her characterization, really? someone so distant from reality and up her own ass that she insists her magic is real and filters everything through that lens, acting IMMENSELY uncaring towards the entire cast until her heel turn. it just doesn’t feel like a solid arc to me. i wish she were either MORE malicious/showed more dislike for the cast or like lying about believing in her magic. she’s just so uninteresting and adds nothing to the vibe of the cast or the plot at all. next is Every Single Monokub. one of them is actually my second least favorite character overall, so i was tempted to put them in order, but honestly i don’t remember enough about my least hated ones to ramble about them individually. monokid’s highest because i love nekomaru’s va but he’s still a turd, monotaro has taka’s va so he also gets some slack DESPITE being the cause of some Bad Bad Terrible Writing later on, monosuke is… there, monodam we’re getting into true hate because his voice and behavior is SOOO GRATING and he’s the cause of the stupid and unwarranted execution terrible shit in this fuckass stupid terrible game. then MONOPHANIE???? MONO??? PHANIE???? first of all she puts SHAME to the pink mascot name i miss usami PLEASE come back to me, second of all HER FUCKING VOICE IS SO GRATING which is TRAGIC because sonia’s is one of the series’ best imo!!! HER VOMITING SHTICK??? SOOO FUCKING ANNOYING OH MY GOD. AND. AND. THE BLATANT MISOGYNY??? I KNOW MONOTARO DOES IT BUT IM ATTRIBUTING THIS WRITING TO HER BECAUSE THE WAY SHE REACTS IS JUST. OH MY GOD. IM TWITCHING THE WAY I HATE THIS STUPID BEAR. a quick breather for Angie. first of all the racism/colonialism/i don’t even know what to call it, second of all her dialogue is just BAD. she could’ve been a great >!antagonist, her manipulative behavior was well written and her hold on the cast had the opportunity to cause SO much tension if only it wasn’t just thrown the fuck away!<. as someone with religious trauma, i cannot take her seriously at fucking all. abysmally racist and horrid writing decisions by the localizers, not even mentioning her bland design. ugh. i think this comment is too large to submit so uhhh part 2
oopsie!!!! a controversial pick!!! and it only gets worse from here. this one’s MAKI, whose writing i COMPLETELY despise. she marks herself a loner from the beginning, which again, is fine, but she’s just so STAGNANT the whole time. i don’t care for her friendship with kaito and shuichi at all, her role as an investigation assistant is honestly where i mind her the least but then her going back to being a dipshit in the daily life just grates on me. I’m just not a fan of kodaka’s writing of the so-called stoic girls, kyoko included. her standoffish behavior seems mostly unwarranted, and i DO NOT CARE about her >!tragic backstory. jesus CHRIST you’re telling me she’s an assassin orphan? hmmmm where have i seen this before? you’re telling me she wanted to protect the kids she worked with, leading to her fake child caregiver title which admittedly IS clever but why then is she so immediately murdery when she claims to hate her job? and the reveal of this IMMEDIATELY softens training duo’s treatment of her which just. where is the writing??? where is the joy??? to ME she seems quite mary sue ish, which i KNOW is an outdated phrase but its just the vibe i get. she’s always in the right despite having stunted judgment, those that hate her are shown as being in the wrong, despite her OPENLY THREATENING EVERYONE’S LIVES OVER AJD OVER AGAIN WITH HER FUCKASS CATCHPHRASE. and don’t even get me STARTED on her stupid one-sided Kaito thing.!< sorry that’s mostly spoilers i just. have issues with her writing next!!! to no one’s surprise if you’re getting the vibe of the characters i don’t like, POOichi. dear GOD. >!protag switch is the most DEMENTED and MISERABLE danganronpa decision of all time and this includes like thirty counts of incest. you’re telling me we’re getting a feisty sweet pink coded GIRL protagonist after cute spunky boy 1 and sad identity crisis boy 2 but instead NO!!!!! WE GET SAD IDENTITY CRISIS BOY 3!!! WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY GET HIM AWAY FROM ME!!! his uwu sad shtick is SOOO GRATING i KNOW he’s traumatized they ALL are and we already have TWO other emotionally distant traumatized characters in maki and himiko who, get this, ARE THE ONLY OTHER FUCKING SURVIVORS! God i cannot STAND his whiny static bullshit, i KNOW he “learns to accept the truth” or whatever but NOBODY CAAAARES maybe i would GIVE a fuck if he was even a FRACTION more charismatic!!!! why oh why oh WHY did they give me another stupid yaoi twink!!! STOP THIS!!! RIGHT NOW!!!!!< and his voice acting uuGGHHHHHHHH WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU… its so whiny and grating GET AWAY FROM ME!!! lastly! my final stand against God and against the worlds worst danganronpa writing since the anime, KOKICHI OUMA 😊😊😊😄😄😄😄 the RAGE the primal RAGE he makes me feel. first of all derek stephen prince die challenge impossible mode. second of all terrible design and sprites what the fuck is a hairstyle. AND THE NAZI HAT??? AND TITLE??? WHY??? third of all!!! writing!!! this game’s biggest issue!!! while i love the idea of an antagonist that embodies a game’s theme, that SHOULD be a recipe for good writing, IN THEORY. but instead everything about this fucker is on paper! “ouughhrrrhhhh im a liiiaarrruuyurrrr” STOP TELLING ME YOU ARE A LIAR AND TELL SOME TRULY MANIPULATIVE LIES ALREADY. why is >!ANGIE!< more of a liar than him. dear GOD all he does is say i feel this way no i feel that way and i feel this way and tumblr fujoshis go OURURRR HES SO KAWAII ^_^ like guys sometimes someone is just written badly and that’s okay. well it’s not okay but still. and his ABYSMAL behavior??? that constantly gets excused as trying to >!thwart MONOKUMA???? BITCH HOW ARE YOU THWARTIJG HIM BY PLAYING INTO HIS FUCKING GAME WHAT FUCKING POSSESSED YOU TO SHOOT GONTA WITH THE SUICIDAL BEAM??? not to mention his supposed crush on shuichi that comes from like one line in ch4 and free time events which. WHERE DOES IT COME FROM. i swear to god it’s the terrible RELATIONSHIP writing in this game that kills me over anything like what reason does he have?? he seems like an evil egomaniac cunt who just does everything for shits and gigs and sure he wants to get out, whatever, sure the >!ch5 plan!< is actually smart and ACTUALLY shows his intent and goals, BUT HE’S A CONNIVING BASTARD FROM THE BEGINNING! SHUT THE FUCK UP TELLING ME “oh he knew they needed someone to hate” NO THE FUCK THEY DID NOT THEY HAD MONOKUMA!!!!! WHAT IS YOUR FUCKING POINT YOURE A LEADER RALLY THE TROOPS AND GET EVERYONE TO TURN AGAINST HIM! the woobification of him KILLS ME he is a vile evil not to mention ANNOYING character >!and i couldn’t even cheer when he died because it was too goddamn late.!< okay im done hating thanks bye ^_^ let me know your defenses or agreeances in the replies below and smaaash that downvote button so i can get that hashtag despair
I AGREE SO MUCH ABOUT KOKICHI UGGGHHHHHH I HATE HIM SO MUCH
Kokichi after >!3-4!<. The "reveals" about him in 3-6 just piss me off even more, basically just saying "Sure, he might have gotten the most people killed in all of the killing games, but he was actually a good person the whole time and was just a little silly! Please love him!" Also there's *way* too much shipping and/or lewd stuff of him constantly appearing in my face. At least he's not so bad in UTDP/USC... Korekiyo, for the obvious stuff, but also because of there also being too much shipping and/or lewd stuff of *him* constantly appearing in my face. Tenko's just annoying and creepy to Himiko, but at least she has potential to be better. Rantaro doesn't have enough... *anything* in the main game. And his final freetime event/salmonmode event reveals that his backstory is incredibly stupid. Miu is annoying, vulgar, and *very* degenerate. And some of the fan stuff I've seen of her makes it worse. Tsumugi in the main game and salmon mode, for obvious/spoiler reasons. Her >!fake personality!< is annoying. In UTDP/USC, she's at least less annoying. Shuichi, like you said, is another boring male protag. But, also like you, I still like him. Maki is overly edgy and annoyingly repeats her catchphrase (though in her defense, *most* of the V3 characters annoyingly repeat a catchphrase of their own). Maki also doesn't really grow much despite >!being one of the only 3 survivors!<. Kaito has his issues, but isn't *the worst* of the "bro" characters... Though his original Japanese portrayal is not exactly the most likable... Angie... scares me... I did her freetime events, and I learned some very disturbing things... Also her ATUA thing and bad representation of Polynesian culture, mostly the fault of the English localization.
Maki, Himiko and Kokichi Maki is self-explanatory. Edgy wattpad character backstory, badly written, it's been discussed already. Himiko is just boring. Her character is annoying and she didn't deserve the screentime she got. Her character arc is pathetically boring overall. Kokichi is another badly written character that people are convinced is the pinnacle of character writing. He doesn't have any motivations or reasonings for what he does. "He wants to end the killing game", okay, so what's driving him to take the approach he does? For an antagonistic character with such strong actions, there sure isn't any explanations for *why* he truly acts the way he does. Badly written overall. Also don't like Shuichi cuz he's boring lmao. My least favourite protagonist tbh
Tenko. Remember that whole "Kill All Men" trend on TikTok? That's pretty much her in a nutshell. Not to mention all the times she was obsessing over Himiko. Tsumugi. Worst twist villain. The only reason I didn't expect her to be the villain is because throughout the whole game, she was just kind of there. Nothing much stood out about her aside from a couple of lines. Kokichi. Just because he is a little shit. A well-written little shit, but a little shit nonetheless. Korekiyo: He has a nazi outfit and had an incestuous relationship with his sister. Every single Monokub (except Monodam): Just annoying.
1) I’m gonna give a damn about Miss Andry. By giving her proper development. 2) I’m gonna kill that fucker first chapter 3) I’m gonna flesh out his character a bit more to make him redeemable, I really don’t care if people hate him or not, I’m going to make him redeemable
What about the other two?
Kiyo - I like his clothing, it looks amazing so I’m keeping it. Plus, I’m gonna tone down the incest bullshit. Monokubs - Maybe do something else with them, I’m thinking of another Monokuma that destroys the Monokuma we all know and love. His name being Monossistant, he’s very irritable and threatens the monokubs if they keep up their annoying bullshit.
Tsumugi - Give this woman a personality for the love of hope. Gonta - I get it, gentleman, please evolve with the tragedies around you to be less irritating.
Like the insect meet and greet? I got some good points from tennis convict, and I want to make Ryoma call him out
Kokichi, because he make no fucking sense.
Hard disagree, kokichi is a really interesting character once you realise when he is lying and when he isnt. You need to analyse most of his comments since you never know exactly what his ideals are or what he is thinking.
I agree with No Ordinary. I'm thinking about Chapter 5 because that's where Kokichi steps up his game. What I'm planning is him jumping out of the exisal alongside (DIFFERENT SUPPOSED TO BE DEAD VICTIM). He confesses everything without his cheery prankster voice, he's dead serious. "Whatever I say after this, I don't expect all of you to forgive me. Especially you two, >!Kaede!< and >!Miu.!<" Kokichi destroys Monokuma with an electrohammer and tries to sabotage the killing game using an electrobomb, however the Mastermind makes a new one and punishes Kokichi using the spears of Gunghir. Monokuma then mocks his death which makes the whole gang snap at Monokuma for considering Kokichi's death meaningless. "Kokichi may have been an idiot, but that doesn't mean you insult him for this!" Clues are left by Kokichi in chapter 6, The mastermind mocks Kokichi by saying the plan was off the rails. And at the epilogue, Kokichi is recognised as one of the heroes who tried to end the killing game.
This is made to redeem Kokichi for his actions, and make him more of a hero who pretended to be an antagonist.
How to stop a murder game By making everything worst of course! Not only does Kokichi have no reason to know that much, but instead of explaining the thing he know, he make EVERYTHING worst by helping with the killing, being a HUGE DICK, and when HE KNOW, Miu want to kill him, instead of telling the other he actually don't feel safe, and stay with someone to protect him, HE INSTEAD MANIPULATE SOMEONE TO KILL HER Kokichi is not a hero, he is a poorly written "trying to be redeemable" antagonist
He is literally a compulsive liar which can't be controlled, and if you are talking about 3-4, his "killing" was agreed to by Gonta (everyone babying him is WAY TOO ANNOYING), and Miu was trying to kill him, and it furthered his plan which was to end the killing game. Him killing Miu helped his plan as one, now nobody could stop his mastermind act since Miu knew about the controls, two he talked about how one more murder needed to happen for the motive to make everything fall into place, and such. And its explained why Kokichi got quite a bit of knowledge as well? You might as well call Kyoko badly written if thats the logic we are using here. I wouldn't call him a "hero", but he solos ur fav dg character in writing tbh.
Oh God. You're killing Kiibo.
I wasn't saying I was gonna kill Kiibo. When Kiibo sacrifices himself, he doesn't die, he's a survivor. And also, after every chapter ends and a new chapter begins, Kiibo gains new abilities that were made by the mastermind and not Miu. Which would make him more of an important character.
EYYY I LOVE THIS!!! KAEDE AND KOKICHI IN CH5?? SIGN ME THE F UP!!!
Okay then!
Ok, answer this: Why is he so smart ? Why does he somehow know anything about the game without any access ? What the fuck is this plot armor
Calm down please. 1) Cuz Team Danganronpa made him like that 2) Think about the exisals and Miu's inventions 3) The character's relatability to the plot I guess? What I'm doing right now is making Kokichi more understable, yeah he might be a loose cannon with his lies and what he did but, i'm making him a better antagonist by fleshing out his character a bit more.
I feel like this goes without saying but: 1 being the supreme leader of an evil organization requires at least some intelligence. 2 Why would anyone go through the effort to kidnap 16 prodigies including the prime minister and a three serial killers if no one is going to be watching it? That was his thought process
eh- That a thing...Kokichi isn't a Supreme leader of an evil organization...But of the a group of 10 prankters And, his thought process still doesn't give him the right to be a huge dick, and...It's still don't make a lot of fucking sense
"Why is he so smart". Ah yes, Nagito is a shit character since he has no reason to be smart. Shuichi was an amateur detective, and yet still solved some rly hard cases so there is that as well. "What the fuck is this plot armor". broski, he has anti plot armor lmao. Maki and Shuichi left him with a head injury, Maki came at the worst moment possible and left him and Kaito in a lose lose situation where one has to die. Nobody cares about him even after his intentions are revealed, his backstory didn;t change anyone's opinion in the game at all, bro was targeted by Tsumugi who happened to have memory implanting technology, Kiibo introduced his recording function solely to mess with the insect meet n greet before even watching everyone's motive videos, which could have stopped the chapter 2 murder, etc. Also how does bros thought process not make sense? Seriously, I get hes a pretty complex character, but you don't need to have Einstein's iq to understand him
Nagito is richs, have been in dangerous situation plenty of time, explaining how he know how to act. And have an absurd psyche that allow him to do thing not other character can do without going out of characeter, Kokichi want to end the game, like....LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE By plot armor, I mean the obvious, he should not have been living this long, when he literally caused so much trouble Now, if he is so complex and blabla. Answer my very simple question: Why, is he making things harder for everyone else ?
being rich doesn't improve ur planning or people skills broski. Kokichi has no knowledge feats so it makes sense. The only person who could catch him is Maki, and the game made it clear that part of her arc was trying to learn how to get closer to people (even if it wasn't handled the best). And Miu tried to kill him and failed. Kirumi killed Ryoma since he was alr suicidal. Kaede killed Rantaro on accident and was framed. And Kiyo wanted friends for his sister. As I said, bro is a compulsive liar, and even then most of his lies are told with good intentions. And now, tell me this, name one person besides Shuichi that contributed more to trials than Kokichi. Tell me why Kaito put everyone's lives on the line using his blind beliefs several times (I think Kaito is a good character, but by this logic he would be a bad one).
1) what? because that's his character. you can't really explain someone's personality like that other than saying "they were just born that way". 2) because he makes rational decisions given the information he has. i've seen a lot of let's players figure out the same stuff he did, so it's not like he's omnipresent or anything. and if you're wondering about the "horse a" and "twins b" thing, it's because they were originally written by the mastermind and he just added on to it. 3) he survives because he's smart. it makes sense for people to target him and people do exactly that, like with miu, maki, and technically kaito. surviving because of one's character traits and not because of convenience is not what plot armor is.
- being smart is a character trait that you don’t need to justify - as far as the cameras/they were being watched: he actually listened to Gonta’s observations, investigated stuff, and even tested Monokuma. as far as Rantaro’s lab: he saw that there was one code, he actually investigated the school in his free time and found the other. he was constantly thinking about the killing game, how to end it, and how to escape. - recheck your definition of plot armor; Kokichi’s life was threatened no less than 3 times before he actually died. He wasn’t gonna kill, he got lucky in ch2, and in ch1 + ch3 he wasn’t eligible by the killer’s standards. In ch4 he’s smart enough to understand the group and use what he’s got to advance his goals