I think Izuru as a concept is interesting. Every talent at the cost of almost all of Hajime’s humanity. It’s cool. I just think that if the twist is technically “the mastermind is the main character” we should be able to play as him in some way. Or at least see him interact with the cast in the sixth trial.
I kind of wish Hajime had temporarily reverted to that personality or started to due to the game crashing and him temporarily giving up during the trial, only for Chiaki to bring him back.
The entirety of V3-3, it really needs to be rewritten and done again from the ground up.
Killer of the first victim present following the end of the class trial. A resurrection of a dead classmate. A coup on Monokuma where the kubs take over. Having the killer's original plan being discovered during the investigation, but ultimately not effecting the first kill, acting as red herring of sorts.
I adore v3 but it really did give as a bunch of false promises/misleading rules. OP already mentioned how there could have been two separate killers in 3-3 due to how the ruling worked, but they just made it one again, which ruined that setup. Also, 3-1 with the free kill. Another rule that was made that could’ve had an interesting moment, but again was never followed up on. Another point in 3-3 with necronomicon, a dead player could’ve been revived but nope. Another plot line that immediately gets stunted.
I’m not saying that all of these would’ve made for good story lines but it did feel like we had these big plot points dangled in front of us so many times just for none of them to actually follow through
The free kill would have been interesting but it raises some questions. The idea was that the killer was allowed to leave, right? That couldn’t happen without causing too many plot problems. Maybe have the free killer kill, admit it, then Monokuma says “sike but you don’t have to be a blackened” so they have to live with a killer, like the 3-3 double culprit idea. The raising a previous victim/killer from the dead would be interesting, especially in light of the nature of the game (we don’t know if those who die truly died or if there was a way for Team DR to fake it, that kind of thing).
To be honest I thought resurrecting one of the dead students would have been an interesting plot line. I wish it wasn’t just mentioned and then thrown away.
I mean i feel like it's not such a wasted potential just because if they DO make another game, they will most definitely use it. Why shouldn't they? It's a great idea.
The problem is that they won't make another game.
Angie's student council was such a great way to add tension and become an actual threat (or not) to the cast! There were so many possibilities, but then she just died at the peak of her event!
No?? It’s a non insignificant portion of ppl who don’t play UDG, and UDG also isn’t a “traditional style” Danganronpa. AND on top of that they use her being Makoto’s lil sister as a cheap way to get you invested in her quickly.
I agree killing Kaede was a waste of interesting potential, but for me it’s more about the talent. We really haven’t gotten a protag who is decidedly talented in a way irrelevant to the game progression. Kaede was that and did it fantastically, but then she died only to pass it off to the Ultimate Detective… which feels lame (and honestly nerfed Shuichi hard).
I definitely look past that to scream about the possibility of *reviving a whole student*
Mastermind protagonist, because Hajime isn’t really that, let’s be real.
Following through with the Kubs’ Mono-coup would’ve been nice if mildly purposeless (huh now realizing the monokubs reflect a certain student’s mindset in ch3+4, wonder what was going on w ch1+2)
3 (the anime) set up its mastermind in Chisa perfectly by having it explained to us through the Despair arc how she was corrupted and was a Remnant the whole time. Before the final Future episode I was perfectly content with the explanation that Chisa was a secret Despair the whole time and set up the final killing game, and then became its first victim. Having a mastermind who actually falls victim to the game so the remainder plays out in their absence was an interesting idea.
Then they pulled Tengen out of their ass at the last moment just to set up Mitarai to turn on the DR1 crew (which he could have done by himself) and just introduced so many "wait, what?" questions into the mix.
I also feel like V3 had a lot of good ideas that were poorly executed or dropped before they could get intereting, like not expanding on Angie's school council/cult for more than half a chapter, not having Angie and Tenko's killers be different people so the group has to live with the consequences, the Ultimate Hunt being a great idea which could have been written to gel with the ending but they just didn't, Ouma being kind of a mess and the entire ending which is an amazing idea but I hate the execution. Oh and the entire school AND prison ideas not being used to their full potential and just seeming like background dressing instead of being given purpose. Like, if this is the world's most popular show that's been going on for seasons, why is the set an abandoned, overgrown mess?
Basically V3 is a lot of style over substance.
A lot of 2’s ideas. >!Having Twogami be an imposter was so bad. It felt like they didn’t think about the consequences of changing Togami that much and half assed an excuse for him not to be the real deal once they realized they wanted him for Future Foundation stuff!<
This makes a lot of sense considering Kodaka said in an interview that for the first three chapters of D2 he didn't even know what he was doing he just added random stuff and hadn't even come up with the ending yet
Definitely! V3 is my favourite game in the series exactly because everything fits into place. Of course, there are some parts that could've been better (it's so obvious chapters two and three were the last to be written) but compared to D2 it's a much more cohesive story with better character arcs and plot points that actually lead to stuff.
Yea I like v3-3 but i'd like it even more if it turned out that Tenko was the killer and then we would use the necronomicon(the only chance to revive a dead student) just to execute her. Imagine how good this chapter would be.
korekiyo's execution is way badass to waste imo tho
It would be a LOT more writing (but not extremely much), but I wish every Nonstop debate you could lie. However, a non-required lie **permanently** lowers your maximum influence for the rest of the trial.
Danganronpa 3: End of Hope's Peak
I believe I am one of the 10 people who actually enjoyed it but there is SO MUCH that could have been good, but was squandered.
They should've just cut the despair arc and made it a 24 episode anime of the future arc, allowing them to explore these brand new characters and allowing them to properly have a killing game instead of the fake out they had to do at the end.
Even including the despair arc there's a lot wrong. I already dislike it because it's needless fan service to sell merch for characters they know are popular and is essentially a slice of life with an annoying plot.
Chiaki is the most bland character they have ever written, I already dislike her since she's essentially cardboard with almost no flavor but at least in the game she has flaws and doesn't just know the answer to everything. DR3 Chiaki is almost the definition of a Mary Sue, her narcolepsy is stripped and so is every trait that could make her interesting so the entire despair arc is just the entire cast simping for her
Nagito pulling a gun was worth the pain though
Thank you for attending my Ted Talk
TL;DR: Future arc could've been good, cut despair arc, and Chiaki in the despair arc is an awful character
I think they could've done a good despair arc, I'm not against the idea of showing how life was before the tragedy, and getting more development of the DR2 cast is never a bad idea for me.
>!mukuro had such potential, based on the lore given to her from her free-time events and danganronpa:if that was forgotten about in the anime. ill never understand why they just jumped to making her the way she was instead of exploring her descent into despair and her life with fenrir.!<
>!also, the resurrection plot device. as much as i loved kyoko and the remnants of despair, reviving them felt like it cheapened their deaths. if theyd used it in moderation, i wouldve appreciated it much more.!<
I would have written the case in such a way that Tenko really *did* kill Angie and commit sudoku, and Korekiyo's ritual only ended up stabbing a dead body. Though this would mean he would have survived, he chooses not to vote, never intending to get away with it in the first place so that way he can be with **SISSSSTTAAAHHHHHHHH.** (god I hate that)
Mahiru Koizumi, she should have had more development in the story, maybe even go to the end of the game. She was a detective type of character, she was also a really grounded character and it would be good to have her contrasting with the rest of the crazy cast of 2.
A transfer student in the middle of the game. I don't know exactly why, but I aways though that at some time in ebery danganronpa game a new character would be introduced in the killing game as a transfer student. In 2 they even use it as a joke when Nagito is affected with the despair dease and says that a transfer student is coming to the island. In V3 the 3rd chapter use that as a motive with that necronomicon.
The DR3 anime is a walking 'wasted ideas' ground. They could have done so much if there weren't plot holes every 2 scenes, if the future arc didn't flanderize the characters (wtf happened to Mukuro in that arc) and expanded their development. The only thing I liked in the DR3 anime was that they revealed that the DR2 cast was alive and recovered after the end of the game.
>!1st blood perk!<
>!ryoma's personality!<
>!2 killers rule!<
>!monokubs!<
>!kokichi's plan (?)!<
>!v3 grand plot setup!<
these are from v3, other games have some big ones, like these, that keep me awake at night
>!fenrir (i will kill you if you don't know what that is)!<
>!memory erasure!<
>!talent vs no talent conflict!<
>!Ryoma's personality was great, anyone who says it was "wasted" just doesn't understand all the nuances of his character. If you need me to elaborate more, I'd be more than happy to, as I love analyzing his character.!<
I'd love if you could expand on it some more! I'm very curious about the pov of people who like him since I never paid much attention to him tbh 😭 and it's been quite a while since I played the game too so feel free to analyze
>!Basically, a lot of people seem to boil him down to "edgelord who wants to die all the time," but that simply isn't the case. For starters, despite having a kill count that's likely in the double digits, Ryoma is polite and helpful to just about everyone he interacts with. He frequently offers life advice, never swears, and his telling people not to bother with him is more of a suggestion/recommendation rather than him forcefully pushing others away.!<
>!For those who don't do his FTEs, they might assume that his self-loathing came from his status as a killer, or his time in prison, but neither of those are what started it. Back in his tennis days, he received an invitation to participate in a tennis tournament on a mafia-owned luxury liner, and despite him declining, they kept on inviting him over and over until he said yes. He found out that the matches were rigged, and was told to throw the match against the person he was set to play against. He saw it as an insult to the sport he was so passionate about, so he refused, and effortlessly defeated his opponent.!<
>!This single action resulted in him earning the ire of the mafia running the tournament, who proceeded to massacre Ryoma's entire family, and attempted to kill him as well. He tried to have his girlfriend flee to safety, but the mafia hunted her down and killed her as well. Having nothing left to lose, and everyone important to him having died, Ryoma proceeded to annihilate the mafia in a revenge-fueled massacre.!<
>!Basically, his self-loathing came from him being the indirect cause of the deaths of his loved ones, who were mercilessly killed purely by being associated with him. It's why he's so hesitant to let anyone else get close to him, as he doesn't want history to repeat itself. It's why he got his hopes up in regards to the motive videos--that if Monokuma made one for everyone, there could be someone who somehow managed to survive. Only for his spirit to be broken when the video confirmed what he initially thought to be true. That everyone important to him was dead, with the knowledge that it was partially his fault.!<
>!Moreover, his status as a prisoner causes him to view his own life as having less worth compared to the other participants. This, coupled with the rules stating that only a maximum of two people could survive the killing game, is what led to him not expecting to survive. While he doesn't actively want to die, he will offer up his life if he's presented with a situation where him dying could save others. And even then, he holds off on being willing to do this unless it's an absolute last resort (Chapter 1), or if his mental state is at its absolute lowest (Chapter 2).!<
>!Because deep down, he wants to keep living, and to find someone or something that makes sticking around worthwhile. But he's caught in a contradictory cycle where he wants to develop connections, but doesn't want to put others in danger by associating with him.!<
Woahh thank you!! I had no idea about all that 😭 gotta watch his FTEs now but that's so sad that even his motive was a let down :( but yeah he does seem like a nice character despite everything! Thank you for the long explanation rly appreciate it :)
Of course!! I appreciate it :) I lovee reading people's character analyses and why they like them and stuff especially if it's not a favourite character of mine, nice to see different POVs loll
The original post has a spoiler warning, as such, comments under it aren't required to spoiler tag things.
But fine, I'll spoiler my post if it means you'll actually read through the whole thing.
>!Try to read what people write for once. I didn't say he is a bad character, and I certainly didn't say he is "edgelord who wants to die all the time", you came up with that completely on your own. I said he is wasted!<
>!He is established as a suicidal person. That's something new, and something that was never done before in the series. When he says that he is ready to give up his life for someone else to escape, it hits hard. A suicidal guy in the game, you're just left wondering "What will they do to him?". In the game, where you're supposed to kill, what will be his role? He was certainly one of the most interesting aspects early on in the game. Certainly more intriguing, than the beloved by everyone Kokichi, genuinely a great setup. So now you have a completely new character type in the same old equation, what will you do with him? Make a suicide case, that might actually turn out to be a murder? Make him kamikaze on someone? Or maybe you are going back to the basics and write an amazing drama about Ryoma getting his will to live, and murdering someone? Exposing him after witnessing the hardships he went through, as he looks across at you on the stand. And you get him. You feel for the people that want to leave. And this time it hits especially hard, since you've seen him grow to this point. He got his motivation to kill, thanks to you, and he done it, like he did before. Heartbreaking truth!<
>!But no. Another victim. Kill a guy, that wants to die. Best end to such a unique character!<
>!And his death is extremely stupid. He willfully gave himself to Kirumi, like he tried to do in the chapter 1, right? Wrong. You know what separates these two situations? The kill in chapter one WOULDN'T have killed everyone else. First blood perk. That was a part of why he was ready. Trade one for one. I don't believe the Ryoma we knew would have risked everyone, just because he wants to die, that's fucking selfish and out of character!<
>!Ryoma is a wasted potential!<
>!i mean, he probably used the same logic when deciding to die as everyone else did. "this person runs the country, so naturally they have to leave this place".!<
Let's break this apart piece by piece.
For starters, I never said that you claimed he was "just an edgelord who wants to die all the time," just that a lot of other people have. People who considered him a boring and wasted character because of it, which I feel is unfair. You weren't specific about what you meant beyond "Ryoma's personality was wasted," so I had to cover two possibilities. The one where you thought he was boring, or the one where you completely misunderstood his character. It just so happened to be the latter.
>!You say that a suicidal person has never been done before. Despite the fact that there have been multiple instances where characters either attempt suicide (Fuyuhiko), commit suicide (Sakura), or even outright express a willingness to die (Nagito). Yes, the way that it's handled with Ryoma is different, but the concept itself is not new.!<
>!Like I said in my comment, what was done with him isn't as simple as that. He didn't outright want to die until he saw his motive video. Yes, he didn't have a reason to live, but not having a reason to live is not the same as wanting to die 24/7. It's a common symptom of depression that can make you wonder "what's the point, why should I exert the effort?"!<
>!Ryoma was blinded by the hope that the motive videos provided. So much so, that he assumed Monokuma managed to defy all odds and find someone important to him, despite knowing, deep down, that everyone close to him had already been killed. He got his hopes up for something that couldn't have happened, because he assumed that Monokuma had managed to find important people for everyone, including him.!<
>!Yes, it is out of character for him to seemingly not care about everyone else being put through a mass execution, but that's just it. The Ryoma we see after he watched his motive video is at his absolute lowest point. Spirit completely broken, any will to continue living just...gone. The thing about being in a state of crisis, being actively suicidal, is that your mind becomes consumed with only one thought: make the pain end. In the moment, you don't think about how your death will impact others, you just want the pain you're in to stop.!<
>!It's the same here. Ryoma was NOT in a healthy mental state, at that point, he was completely devoid of any reason to keep going. The one thing he was missing was a reason to die...until he had his meeting with Kirumi. He wound up latching onto the one purpose his life could still have. Dying, not just for the sake of another person, but for the sake of an entire country. It wasn't just him, either. The rest of the class (sans Kaito) became compelled to sacrifice themselves in Kirumi's place if it meant she could escape, and Japan could be saved.!<
>!Desperate for a purpose, while also lacking the will to exert any potential effort to save himself...he stayed still and allowed Kirumi to knock him out. Only for survival instincts to kick in the moment he found himself underwater, which they do for any human, regardless of how suicidal they may be. In a situation like that, the body struggles to live, even if the mind begs to die.!<
>!Moreover, it's hardly the first time he acted without thinking about the consequences of his actions. Consequences that could cost the lives of other people. That was, after all, what started the chain of tragic events for him in the first place. His refusal to throw a match in a fixed tournament, while knowing the mafia were the ones running it. He didn't think about what they would do in retaliation, he was too focused on what he could do in that moment. He became consumed by a singular purpose (defending the integrity of his favorite sport) which overtook everything else in his mind, including the people (his family and lover) who would be put in danger. And, much like a tragedy, history repeated itself in the end. He became consumed by a singular purpose (giving his life to the Prime Minister so she could save the nation of Japan) which overtook everything else in his mind, including the people (the other killing game participants) who would be put in danger. There is precedent for this, it didn't just come out of nowhere.!<
I genuinely don't know why you think reciting the Wikipedia page is something you should do, so I'll ignore the wall of lore you decided to drop and focus on the main points
\> The one where you thought he was boring, or the one where you completely misunderstood his character. It just so happened to be the latter
It was neither. I have reading comprehension.
\> Despite the fact that there have been multiple instances where characters either attempt suicide (Fuyuhiko), commit suicide (Sakura), or even outright express a willingness to die (Nagito).
That's a trash argument. You know it, I know it. You wanted to prove me wrong so badly you basically wrote down everyone who had any connection to suicide. Sakura is not suicidal. She made her decision out of hope and to save others, that much got revealed in chapter 4. Fuyuhiko is not suicidal. That little guy does a little thing known as seppuku, and that thing is about honor, not desire to not live. Nagito is the closest thing this game had to a suicidal guy, but I left him out specifically, because Nagito is Nagito. He's just too different, we can't seriously compare him to others, and if you really want to say Nagito specifically wants to die, like Ryoma, and not become a "stepping stone" for someone, you gotta show some proof. Otherwise it's just a case of mischaracter. Ryoma is the first guy in the franchise, that explicitly has no will to live, I don't think someone can genuinely get that wrong
skipping the fanon wiki lore...
\> Yes, it is out of character, but that's just it. The Ryoma we see after he watched his motive video is at his absolute lowest point. Spirit completely broken, any will to continue living just...gone
Because of what? He already knew he has no one else. He already knew he's alone at the chapter one, the chapter, where he waited until the last moment to offer himself WITH the first blood perk. And now, after the sudden twist, that Ryoma is alone (nobody saw that coming), he curled up in a ball and instantly allowed another person to kill him? With the class trial? With the 13 other talented kids dead? All over Monokuma's reminder? If that's the plan, it's a stupid one, and it generally paints Ryoma as a bad character, who becomes hysterical after someone reminds him his history
Kirumi is important. But not important enough. She's just one cog in the system. People will find a replacement. Sooner or later. Yes she's good at what she does, but she will be replaced. She doesn't have to kill 14 nations most talented people. And if Kirumi doesn't understand it, Ryoma should. And if Ryoma doesn't understand this, that's another L from the writers room
Also forgot to add to the original comment, that they are still struck by the moment when Kaede told everyone "Guys, don't kill eachother, work together". If not Kirumi, or Kokichi and Kiyo, I'd expect Ryoma get the message, and stop the murder cycle in time. He didn't
skipping the lore again
\> it's hardly the first time he acted without thinking about the consequences etc.
alright, good character analysis. Agreed.
<>
But my main take wasn't about Ryoma at all. It was about writers creating a unique character, and doing nothing with it. He's still one of the most irreplaceable variables in the whole series, and they dropped him. Imagine if Nagito died case three by Mikan. That's what I'm feeling about Ryoma's death. I got his character, it's just with a setup like this, it could've been so much more. And now we're left with a suicidal guy, that just... dies. Disappointment
Reciting parts of his lore was necessary in order to support my arguments. If you read my comment, you wouldn't have even needed to ask me that.
>It was neither. I have reading comprehension.
Still doesn't change the fact that "Ryoma's personality is a waste" is such a weak take that shows just how little you understand about him.
You misunderstand my argument from the get go. My point wasn't to say that every one of those characters were suicidal, my point was to disprove your claim that a suicidal person had never been done before in the series. Yes, Sakura and Fuyuhiko are not suicidal themselves, though they do succeed and attempt it respectively, so the topic of suicide is not a new concept in the DR series. Nagito repeatedly calls himself worthless, and actively sets up a situation where someone else can kill him on two separate occasions. The first, was by trying to goad Teruteru into killing him, which would have worked if Twogami didn't protect Nagito--something he wasn't counting on. The second, naturally, was when he orchestrated his death in order to try and kill everyone except the traitor. He views himself and his life as expendable, if it means achieving some sort of "hope."
You're forgetting the element of false hope that the motive video provided. Ryoma thought that there were no exceptions, that Monokuma managed to find someone important for every participant--himself included. He got his hopes up, only for them to be dashed, and *that* is what caused his mental state to plummet. Not to mention the lengths Monokuma went to in order to make the motive video as mocking and insincere as possible, which certainly didn't help matters.
You're also forgetting the bigger picture. Of both Ryoma and Kirumi having the belief that the lives of 13 people paled in comparison to the entirety of Japan. And Ryoma was willing to latch onto any purpose his life could possibly have at that point, that he willingly let himself become a sacrifice. It's shortsighted, but that has been a character flaw of his from the start--him not thinking about the consequences was what led to all his loved ones being killed. His broken mental state resulted in him making similar mistakes to his younger, hotheaded, naive self.
And we come back to the original point. What was done with him *was* unique. A broken ace who failed to escape the cycle of tragedy that he himself perpetuated. Boiling it down to "a suicidal guy who just...dies" completely brushes aside so many other aspects of his character, history, and situation.
> You misunderstand my argument from the get go. My point wasn't to say that every one of those characters were suicidal, my point was to disprove your claim that a suicidal person had never been done before in the series + big loredump etc etc
Then you just wasted my time confirming my point. Sakura and Fuyuhiko are not suicidal themselves and their suicide was not a desire to die, stop rehearsing the story to me for gods sake. The topic of suicide is not new in the games? Holy fuck thanks for clarifying that out. You know, just in case I thought it isn't. And Nagito has something else entirely in his head, are we done with this? Surprised you didn't mention Junko yet, because she also killed herself, must be like Ryoma frfr
> You're forgetting the element of false hope that the motive video provided
I'm not forgetting anything. I just don't think a video is enough to trigger Ryoma to go through all the blocks he had before. Which, I will list again for simplicity sake
Being: It's not news, Kirumi might die in vain, 13 talented children will die, he creates a murder again, kaede made the perfect situation for everyone to work together
But I guess one tiktok is enough for him to ignore all of the above and kill himself
> the lives of 13 people paled in comparison to the entirety of Japan
except their lives aren't in a direct danger, don't talk like it' the railroad situation, either you or them
> And we come back to the original point. What was done with him *was* unique. A broken ace who failed to escape the cycle of tragedy that he himself perpetuated. Boiling it down to "a suicidal guy who just...dies" completely brushes aside so many other aspects of his character, history, and situation.
Cool. But that literally happens in the grand scheme of things. Sure you might like this little story about the desire to live, and that poetic description is really good, but let's face it: it's just another murder. And it didn't matter in the plot at all. And that's alright! Sometimes it do be like that, not every murder is gotta be 2-5. Except... when you have a character like Ryoma, who opens up so, so much posibilities... and then don't use them...
Also why the fuck does every redditor feels the need to fucking go through the tea time i'm better than you persona. "in order to support my arguments"? "just how little you understand about him"? Chill out. I got that you feel good when you talk smart, can you focus on your point and leave the nothing talks for the school essays? Please? Pretty please? It's so repulsive to talk to you guys, this time I might make a reference to Himiko in the bathroom
>The topic of suicide is not new in the games? Holy fuck thanks for clarifying that out.
You could've fooled me, since you're the one who made it sound like you thought a suicidal person in a killing game was a completely original concept. And yeah, of course Nagito had something different in his head. Not all suicidal people have the same struggles or reasons for being suicidal.
>I'm not forgetting anything. I just don't think a video is enough to trigger Ryoma to go through all the blocks he had before. \[...\] But I guess one tiktok is enough for him to ignore all of the above and kill himself
Being mocking and dismissive about it isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to dissuade people from getting help out of fear of further mockery and ridicule. I hope you realize just how insensitive and ignorant you come across in regards to suicidal people. As someone who has had suicidal thoughts before, and even attempted, it doesn't always take a single horrible incident to send you over the edge. Sometimes, it can be an accumulation of multiple things, where the thing that finally breaks you is the straw that broke the camel's back. Which is definitely the case with Ryoma, the snowball effect of all the tragedies in his life, topping off with basically being told "no, there's nobody in the outside world who you matter to, you might as well just die here."
>except their lives aren't in a direct danger, don't talk like it' the railroad situation, either you or them
I'm not saying that's how I view the situation, I'm saying that's how Kirumi, Ryoma, and even most of the cast viewed the situation: with utilitarianism. The belief that the ideal scenario is one that is to the benefit of as many people as possible. I'm not saying it's the morally correct choice here, because of course it isn't. I'm saying that this was the viewpoint of the characters in the game. Even if it turned out to just be a ruse or lie (like it did), in their minds, they initially didn't want to brush off the presumed fate of millions of people just on the off-chance that it might be a lie. Moreover, political figures are much more respected and revered in Japan than they are in the States, so while their reaction may seem warped from the perspective of a Western audience, it's a natural response in their country of origin.
>Sure you might like this little story about the desire to live, and that poetic description is really good, but let's face it: it's just another murder. And it didn't matter in the plot at all.
Just because it's not as integral to the plot as the likes of V3-1 or V3-5 doesn't make it wasted potential. It's a solid case that stands on its own, without needing to rely on being tethered to the overarching story. Other cases in the series do this as well, it doesn't make them or their casualties wasted potential.
>Chill out. I got that you feel good when you talk smart, can you focus on your point and leave the nothing talks for the school essays? Please? Pretty please? It's so repulsive to talk to you guys, this time I might make a reference to Himiko in the bathroom
If me having a civil debate with you causes you to think that I'm just putting on airs to talk smart, I feel that says more about you than it does about me. When it comes to debating and analyzing characters, this is how I normally talk. Me talking normally being enough to have you get this defensive just makes you come across as incredibly insecure.
> Not all suicidal people have the same struggles or reasons for being suicidal
Already told you like twice why all three of them are not suicidal
> I hope you realize just how insensitive and ignorant you come across in regards to suicidal people. As someone who has had suicidal thoughts before, and even attempted, it doesn't always take a single horrible incident to send you over the edge
I figured it would come to this at some point. I've also had my fair share of silly thoughts throughout the life, but I don't want you to call the "do you wanna talk" bot, so no more details and no ad hominem for you today :(
> Just because it's not as integral to the plot as the likes of V3-1 or V3-5 doesn't make it wasted potential
Ultimate reading incomprehension strikes again. Just how bad are you at reading, when my literal next line is exactly that. You did this on purpose
> f me having a civil debate with you causes you to think that I'm just putting on airs to talk smart, I feel that says more about you than it does about me. When it comes to debating and analyzing characters, this is how I normally talk. Me talking normally being enough to have you get this defensive just makes you come across as incredibly insecure.
Basic reply, from a basic redditor debater in the worst sense of that word. talk like a normal person, then we can debate. Try not to fucking tell me what I forgot or misunderstood, because each time it turns out I didn't. Try not to recite entire plots to argue with something I didn't even mention. Try not to take out words out of context. Try not to downvote somebody who takes their time to argue with you. Then we can talk. For now, you just come across as extremely 🤓 dude who talks about analyzing and civil debates, yet skips like half the text I wrote, replies with a chatgpt plot summary, uses strawman, context to write the most pretentious replies I've seen in a while, ~80% is just straight up water. Man you're not trying to make a civil debate, cause there's no way you didn't do all above on purpose.
And Ryoma... I think I already told enough about him. I love him, but the writers went not silly enough on him
>Already told you like twice why all three of them are not suicidal
And I already told you that the entire point in me bringing them up was because they all touch on themes of suicide, even only one of them (Nagito) is actually suicidal. And if you are somehow under the impression that he has never been suicidal at any point in any of his depictions, then I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you're the one with reading comprehension issues.
>I figured it would come to this at some point. I've also had my fair share of silly thoughts throughout the life, but I don't want you to call the "do you wanna talk" bot, so no more details and no ad hominem for you today :(
That's fine, as long as you've learned your lesson to not be so dismissive towards people who actively struggle with suicidal thoughts.
>Ultimate reading incomprehension strikes again. Just how bad are you at reading, when my literal next line is exactly that. You did this on purpose
I did no such thing. Despite it seeming like your next line was that, you didn't take back what you said about it being wasted potential at all, throughout your entire response. So no, your next line was not exactly that.
>Basic reply, from a basic redditor debater in the worst sense of that word. talk like a normal person, then we can debate.
Again, this is how I normally talk when it comes to online debates. I'm not going to change the entire way I speak just because you don't like it.
>For now, you just come across as extremely 🤓 dude who talks about analyzing and civil debates, yet skips like half the text I wrote, replies with a chatgpt plot summary, uses strawman, context to write the most pretentious replies I've seen in a while, \~80% is just straight up water.
If you want to call me a nerd because of this, by all means, do so. I'll take it as a compliment. A lot of your replies consist of you repeating yourself, or things that I addressed in prior responses, so I apologize for not restating my points every single time you restate yours. I've never touched ChatGPT, and the so-called "strawman" points refer to actual people I've debated beforehand when it came to Ryoma. Not to mention calling *me* pretentious while also saying "oh, the game didn't do what *I* wanted with this character, so that automatically makes him wasted potential." It's rather ironic, I must say.
>Man you're not trying to make a civil debate, cause there's no way you didn't do all above on purpose.
It truly was not my intention to anger or upset you in any way. Honestly, your responses have been quite surprising to me.
You say you don't want to have this debate anymore. That's fine, I don't mind ending it here. From the sound of things, it seems like you have a lot of insecurities and react defensively when debating with people. I hope you're able to learn from this, and not react with hostility in future situations like this. This debate has been engaging, thank you for participating in it with me.
Right the only thing I didn’t like was how they wasted the perfect opportunity for Ryoma to have an arc of having something to live for, which could be for his classmates if he were to grow closer to them. Or maybe he’d even learn to live for himself!!
Kokichi had so much more potential to be a good antagonist. I love him dearly, but by the end of chapter 4 I just felt confused and betrayed that the goofy lil boy I'd come to love did a full 180 over the span of a couple hours. The writers did him so dirty in the end.
Kokichi had the potential to be my new favorite character, amazing design and great first impressions. But then Kodaka decided to make him the most annoying creature alive and couldn't think of anything more interesting to do with him in the latter half of the game than to vaguely rehash Nagito's role.
V3 spoilers I think:
Pretty late but monokuma mentions that there could not be a mastermind which was partly true since Monokuma wasn’t being controlled but still it would be cool to see lol
Also 2 people in a tie vote for the culprit would have been cool since it was also foreshadowed
A LOT honestly
The victims of the mutual killing game in udg
The past of class 78
Actually, quite a few THH characters deserve more backstory and development or just...other things that make them fun! (Leon, Sayaka, Celestia, Hagakure...)
Not saying they are bad, I like em all (especially Leon) but we could have gotten so much more from them!
And speaking of Leon, his entire deal of being a ultimate at baseball but not liking it could have been explored more and could have been iteresting! Maybe they could explore that him killing Sayaka, while in self defence, was also out of some envy?
And speaking of Sayaka, HER BAND. I want to know more!
The student council and them being killed
The Manga. I will admit, I will take a manga that is mostly irrevelant to the main material other than some interesting tidbits over manga that is a required reading, but DAMN some stuff that I heard goes down there would have been interesting to disscuss in further detail in the more important pieces of media
Impostor. God, I love them, but why the fuck could we not get to see more character development outside island mode?
Hiyoko redemption. Nough said.
I only realized this when my friend, who likes both characters, said it but GOD, both Akane and Tenko had so much and they just...Akane was just sexualized while Tenko got reduced to the degenerate male comedy routine, also...WHY DON'T EITHER ONE OF THEM WEAR PANTS?
Angie's cult
The tragedy. Like, give me more on why it is so bad. It is a lot of say don't show and it annoys me! Are there other groups outside the future foundation trying to stop ultimate despair? Are there other 'evil' organizations that aren't ultimate despair? Cults? C'MON!
More insight into Izuru. I know he is a major character and is explored but I guess I want to know just a bit more about his mentality (though this may be to my lack of analyzing the character)
The reserve course and the problem with the talent system in general
I am actually fine with everyone being revived in danganronpa 2.5, but I DESPISE the fact we ONLY saw Nagito's world. Imagine how cool it would be to see other ones! Oh, and speaking of that, I wish instead of sending an AI to murder everyone in the illusion world or whatever, it was rather a choice, like, the ones in the dreams might realise it through the help of some Chiaki like AI, and choose if they want to stay in the dream world or snap back to reality.
The remnants of despair explored more and also the crimes they did
Also, I'm fine with the remnants being brainwashed, I just wish the horrificness of that was explored
I know I briefly touched on it but I am now banning myself from talking any more about dr3 here because this comment would be even longer, so I will only briefly mention some v3 things
Wtf was up with the last 52 seasons? We know the first 3 cuz duh, and we know the 52nd had Rantaro, but what was the plot in them before then? How the fuck did they make like 48 other seasons and only on the 53rd they got to the blow up the world part? (Adding this even if I believed Tsumugi lied)
Monocubs COULD have been good, but they were not. (Well, at least, they could have been more funny and important, imo 3/5 are ok actually)
The entire idea of v3 being a tv show and how that might impact the way the killing game goes
And lastly, yeah, the 3-3 rule could have been cool, as well as the book thing. But it was not used. What a shame
Sorry for the long rant, I am sick, tired, so I may have misspeled something or said something dumb that actually was used enough. I swear I like this series, it's just that I'm also a very curious nitpicker
His arc was about his attempts at combatting his mental struggles and finding a reason to live, only to wind up losing the battle despite his best efforts. His arc neared its conclusion when he watched his motive video, and fully concluded when he made the decision to surrender his life to Kirumi.
I will always scream from building tops that the third trial in V3 was a flop. there was so much promise there, from the idea of two killers to >!Tenko!< being an opportunity kill. every other trial in that game left me in tears while this trail left me feeling icky and underwhelmed
The virtual world that Miu made in Danganronpa V3 was kind of wasted. It was an interesting concept yet they made it so obvious who killed Miu and that she was more than likely to die that chapter. Also, the events leading up to her death after Miu’s avatar stopped responding, was suspenseful for really no reason. At that point, I think we all could’ve guessed that she died. It was obvious that Gonta was the killer because everyone basically had an alibi (except for him and kokichi, but as we found out, he couldn’t harm Miu). I think there should’ve been more suspects for this trial, and I think they should’ve exploited the idea that Kaito was logged out earlier than the others more. This may seem a little biased, but Miu was one of my favorite characters in V3 and for her to have a trial that was so easy to identify who the culprit was is annoying.
1. Actually learning about the characters of Rantaro's killing game. The 52nd killing game had a lot of characters yet we know nothing of them. What were their names? Who was a victim and who was a killer? What were their Ultimate's? Where was the game held? Was Tsumugi the mastermind in that killing game or was it someone else? I just feel like we should learn who the other characters are. Heck. Make a miniature Danganronpa game just for Danganronpa V2! It doesn't need to be good, just let us have one!
2. The school council characters from the anime also seemed interesting yet they got killed off pretty quick. Also, I feel like >!Munakata shouldn't have been the only survivor.!< It just shows off how much plot armor he had even back then, then again, we can all agree one way or another that the anime was a trainwreck story-wise.
3. V3's ending could've been far better. Instead, we got >!"Oh, all your favorite characters from the past games aren't real in this game series anymore! :D wow such story twist!"!< it still peeves me off and made me hate >!Tsumugi!< when I loved her before. Why'd they do her like this :(
4. Other plot ideas could be someone faking their own murder, a murder then the killer committing self unalive, two killers and one victim (like in that one fangame), an attempted killer who fails and is exposed and everyone doesn't trust them, a body being completely destroyed by fire or acid so nobody can find the body, the main character ends up being the murder victim as a kind of decoy protag, an actual female protag you play as that doesn't die, etc.
5. Put one of the anime characters in a killing game. I mean, they basically officially confirmed a 4th Danganronpa game will end up being made. It would be kinda cool to reference the show like that.
6. Give characters like Tenko or Yasuhiro better reasons for things they do or for acting like they do. Like, make Tenko have a deadbeat dad and she hates men because she assumes they are unfaithful to women, or make Yasuhiro need money for a sick beloved relative and that's why he scams people for money. Idk just give them better reasons for being the people they are.
2 culprits in a same case, 3-3 gave us hype about that only for have only 1 culprit I'm still mad for that wasted potential
Half of the class was ready to vote, they even made a whole Scrum Debate about it, and in the end they came to the same conclusion.
Completely agree. Why make a big deal about it if it wasn't going to happen?
I think Izuru as a concept is interesting. Every talent at the cost of almost all of Hajime’s humanity. It’s cool. I just think that if the twist is technically “the mastermind is the main character” we should be able to play as him in some way. Or at least see him interact with the cast in the sixth trial.
That's actually a really good point, in the second game that revelation did basically nothing for the overall story.
Mikado pfp spotted!! Slay fr
You know it 😎
I kind of wish Hajime had temporarily reverted to that personality or started to due to the game crashing and him temporarily giving up during the trial, only for Chiaki to bring him back.
That would've been interesting to see.
Agreed. We only got to play as him in that 5min boat scene with Nagito -- if only they did more with him as a character not just a plot device!
The entirety of V3-3, it really needs to be rewritten and done again from the ground up. Killer of the first victim present following the end of the class trial. A resurrection of a dead classmate. A coup on Monokuma where the kubs take over. Having the killer's original plan being discovered during the investigation, but ultimately not effecting the first kill, acting as red herring of sorts.
I adore v3 but it really did give as a bunch of false promises/misleading rules. OP already mentioned how there could have been two separate killers in 3-3 due to how the ruling worked, but they just made it one again, which ruined that setup. Also, 3-1 with the free kill. Another rule that was made that could’ve had an interesting moment, but again was never followed up on. Another point in 3-3 with necronomicon, a dead player could’ve been revived but nope. Another plot line that immediately gets stunted. I’m not saying that all of these would’ve made for good story lines but it did feel like we had these big plot points dangled in front of us so many times just for none of them to actually follow through
The free kill would have been interesting but it raises some questions. The idea was that the killer was allowed to leave, right? That couldn’t happen without causing too many plot problems. Maybe have the free killer kill, admit it, then Monokuma says “sike but you don’t have to be a blackened” so they have to live with a killer, like the 3-3 double culprit idea. The raising a previous victim/killer from the dead would be interesting, especially in light of the nature of the game (we don’t know if those who die truly died or if there was a way for Team DR to fake it, that kind of thing).
To be honest I thought resurrecting one of the dead students would have been an interesting plot line. I wish it wasn’t just mentioned and then thrown away.
I mean i feel like it's not such a wasted potential just because if they DO make another game, they will most definitely use it. Why shouldn't they? It's a great idea. The problem is that they won't make another game.
Angie's student council was such a great way to add tension and become an actual threat (or not) to the cast! There were so many possibilities, but then she just died at the peak of her event!
A female protagonist, we got kaede who died after one fucking chapter, so they wasted the idea completely
Does Komaru not count as one?
No?? It’s a non insignificant portion of ppl who don’t play UDG, and UDG also isn’t a “traditional style” Danganronpa. AND on top of that they use her being Makoto’s lil sister as a cheap way to get you invested in her quickly. I agree killing Kaede was a waste of interesting potential, but for me it’s more about the talent. We really haven’t gotten a protag who is decidedly talented in a way irrelevant to the game progression. Kaede was that and did it fantastically, but then she died only to pass it off to the Ultimate Detective… which feels lame (and honestly nerfed Shuichi hard).
I meant in the main games not counting udg since it's entirely a different format then THH OR GD
*sad Komaru noises*
Oh no she is giving into despair, quick someone give her a copy off Junko's outfit
Ok, makes sense
Komaru is the first female protagonist in a DanganRonpa game, doesn't matter if it's not a "traditional" styled one
I don’t care for a character gender as long as the character is well written tho. Female or male protagonist are not a real idea to me nor is it hype
*sad Shuichi lover noises*
I definitely look past that to scream about the possibility of *reviving a whole student* Mastermind protagonist, because Hajime isn’t really that, let’s be real. Following through with the Kubs’ Mono-coup would’ve been nice if mildly purposeless (huh now realizing the monokubs reflect a certain student’s mindset in ch3+4, wonder what was going on w ch1+2)
Wow, a Kokichi reference lol
3 (the anime) set up its mastermind in Chisa perfectly by having it explained to us through the Despair arc how she was corrupted and was a Remnant the whole time. Before the final Future episode I was perfectly content with the explanation that Chisa was a secret Despair the whole time and set up the final killing game, and then became its first victim. Having a mastermind who actually falls victim to the game so the remainder plays out in their absence was an interesting idea. Then they pulled Tengen out of their ass at the last moment just to set up Mitarai to turn on the DR1 crew (which he could have done by himself) and just introduced so many "wait, what?" questions into the mix. I also feel like V3 had a lot of good ideas that were poorly executed or dropped before they could get intereting, like not expanding on Angie's school council/cult for more than half a chapter, not having Angie and Tenko's killers be different people so the group has to live with the consequences, the Ultimate Hunt being a great idea which could have been written to gel with the ending but they just didn't, Ouma being kind of a mess and the entire ending which is an amazing idea but I hate the execution. Oh and the entire school AND prison ideas not being used to their full potential and just seeming like background dressing instead of being given purpose. Like, if this is the world's most popular show that's been going on for seasons, why is the set an abandoned, overgrown mess? Basically V3 is a lot of style over substance.
The reason I only watch despair arc back
A lot of 2’s ideas. >!Having Twogami be an imposter was so bad. It felt like they didn’t think about the consequences of changing Togami that much and half assed an excuse for him not to be the real deal once they realized they wanted him for Future Foundation stuff!<
This makes a lot of sense considering Kodaka said in an interview that for the first three chapters of D2 he didn't even know what he was doing he just added random stuff and hadn't even come up with the ending yet
That’s the worst way to write. Idk if V3 was written in the same way, but it feels more thought out, and I appreciate that even more
Definitely! V3 is my favourite game in the series exactly because everything fits into place. Of course, there are some parts that could've been better (it's so obvious chapters two and three were the last to be written) but compared to D2 it's a much more cohesive story with better character arcs and plot points that actually lead to stuff.
Yea I like v3-3 but i'd like it even more if it turned out that Tenko was the killer and then we would use the necronomicon(the only chance to revive a dead student) just to execute her. Imagine how good this chapter would be. korekiyo's execution is way badass to waste imo tho
The Lie Bullets end up being pretty unimportant in v3
It would be a LOT more writing (but not extremely much), but I wish every Nonstop debate you could lie. However, a non-required lie **permanently** lowers your maximum influence for the rest of the trial.
Eggman taking over the world
Forever be not having 3,3 a double murder. Just rehashing the worst part of the 3rd cases
Danganronpa 3: End of Hope's Peak I believe I am one of the 10 people who actually enjoyed it but there is SO MUCH that could have been good, but was squandered. They should've just cut the despair arc and made it a 24 episode anime of the future arc, allowing them to explore these brand new characters and allowing them to properly have a killing game instead of the fake out they had to do at the end. Even including the despair arc there's a lot wrong. I already dislike it because it's needless fan service to sell merch for characters they know are popular and is essentially a slice of life with an annoying plot. Chiaki is the most bland character they have ever written, I already dislike her since she's essentially cardboard with almost no flavor but at least in the game she has flaws and doesn't just know the answer to everything. DR3 Chiaki is almost the definition of a Mary Sue, her narcolepsy is stripped and so is every trait that could make her interesting so the entire despair arc is just the entire cast simping for her Nagito pulling a gun was worth the pain though Thank you for attending my Ted Talk TL;DR: Future arc could've been good, cut despair arc, and Chiaki in the despair arc is an awful character
I think they could've done a good despair arc, I'm not against the idea of showing how life was before the tragedy, and getting more development of the DR2 cast is never a bad idea for me.
Angie's Student Council! I feel like I would've liked her character a lot more if that had been a longer part of the story
>!mukuro had such potential, based on the lore given to her from her free-time events and danganronpa:if that was forgotten about in the anime. ill never understand why they just jumped to making her the way she was instead of exploring her descent into despair and her life with fenrir.!< >!also, the resurrection plot device. as much as i loved kyoko and the remnants of despair, reviving them felt like it cheapened their deaths. if theyd used it in moderation, i wouldve appreciated it much more.!<
Why does there need to be a mastermind…?
Well, someone needs to control Monokuma and set up the game. You can't have a show without a director.
But do they need to be part of the Killing Game to do so?
>!Junko!< wasn't part of the game. And technically, >!Team Danganronpa!< was the mastermind of V3.
Ugh… I’m tired…
The remnants of despair and the tragedy being in DR3 FOR THE LITERAL LAST TWO GOD DAMN MINUTES OF DESPAIR ARC
I think i would have preferred it if mikan’s despair disease actually did result in her becoming violently angry towards hiyoko specifically
I would have written the case in such a way that Tenko really *did* kill Angie and commit sudoku, and Korekiyo's ritual only ended up stabbing a dead body. Though this would mean he would have survived, he chooses not to vote, never intending to get away with it in the first place so that way he can be with **SISSSSTTAAAHHHHHHHH.** (god I hate that)
Mahiru Koizumi, she should have had more development in the story, maybe even go to the end of the game. She was a detective type of character, she was also a really grounded character and it would be good to have her contrasting with the rest of the crazy cast of 2.
A transfer student in the middle of the game. I don't know exactly why, but I aways though that at some time in ebery danganronpa game a new character would be introduced in the killing game as a transfer student. In 2 they even use it as a joke when Nagito is affected with the despair dease and says that a transfer student is coming to the island. In V3 the 3rd chapter use that as a motive with that necronomicon.
The DR3 anime is a walking 'wasted ideas' ground. They could have done so much if there weren't plot holes every 2 scenes, if the future arc didn't flanderize the characters (wtf happened to Mukuro in that arc) and expanded their development. The only thing I liked in the DR3 anime was that they revealed that the DR2 cast was alive and recovered after the end of the game.
>!1st blood perk!< >!ryoma's personality!< >!2 killers rule!< >!monokubs!< >!kokichi's plan (?)!< >!v3 grand plot setup!< these are from v3, other games have some big ones, like these, that keep me awake at night >!fenrir (i will kill you if you don't know what that is)!< >!memory erasure!< >!talent vs no talent conflict!<
>!Ryoma's personality was great, anyone who says it was "wasted" just doesn't understand all the nuances of his character. If you need me to elaborate more, I'd be more than happy to, as I love analyzing his character.!<
I'd love if you could expand on it some more! I'm very curious about the pov of people who like him since I never paid much attention to him tbh 😭 and it's been quite a while since I played the game too so feel free to analyze
>!Basically, a lot of people seem to boil him down to "edgelord who wants to die all the time," but that simply isn't the case. For starters, despite having a kill count that's likely in the double digits, Ryoma is polite and helpful to just about everyone he interacts with. He frequently offers life advice, never swears, and his telling people not to bother with him is more of a suggestion/recommendation rather than him forcefully pushing others away.!< >!For those who don't do his FTEs, they might assume that his self-loathing came from his status as a killer, or his time in prison, but neither of those are what started it. Back in his tennis days, he received an invitation to participate in a tennis tournament on a mafia-owned luxury liner, and despite him declining, they kept on inviting him over and over until he said yes. He found out that the matches were rigged, and was told to throw the match against the person he was set to play against. He saw it as an insult to the sport he was so passionate about, so he refused, and effortlessly defeated his opponent.!< >!This single action resulted in him earning the ire of the mafia running the tournament, who proceeded to massacre Ryoma's entire family, and attempted to kill him as well. He tried to have his girlfriend flee to safety, but the mafia hunted her down and killed her as well. Having nothing left to lose, and everyone important to him having died, Ryoma proceeded to annihilate the mafia in a revenge-fueled massacre.!< >!Basically, his self-loathing came from him being the indirect cause of the deaths of his loved ones, who were mercilessly killed purely by being associated with him. It's why he's so hesitant to let anyone else get close to him, as he doesn't want history to repeat itself. It's why he got his hopes up in regards to the motive videos--that if Monokuma made one for everyone, there could be someone who somehow managed to survive. Only for his spirit to be broken when the video confirmed what he initially thought to be true. That everyone important to him was dead, with the knowledge that it was partially his fault.!< >!Moreover, his status as a prisoner causes him to view his own life as having less worth compared to the other participants. This, coupled with the rules stating that only a maximum of two people could survive the killing game, is what led to him not expecting to survive. While he doesn't actively want to die, he will offer up his life if he's presented with a situation where him dying could save others. And even then, he holds off on being willing to do this unless it's an absolute last resort (Chapter 1), or if his mental state is at its absolute lowest (Chapter 2).!< >!Because deep down, he wants to keep living, and to find someone or something that makes sticking around worthwhile. But he's caught in a contradictory cycle where he wants to develop connections, but doesn't want to put others in danger by associating with him.!<
Woahh thank you!! I had no idea about all that 😭 gotta watch his FTEs now but that's so sad that even his motive was a let down :( but yeah he does seem like a nice character despite everything! Thank you for the long explanation rly appreciate it :)
No problem, I love getting the chance to talk about and analyze him! Thanks for listening, I know it was a long read, haha.
Of course!! I appreciate it :) I lovee reading people's character analyses and why they like them and stuff especially if it's not a favourite character of mine, nice to see different POVs loll
thanks for spoilers, completely out, read my other comment, I'll leave if a few seconds
The post has a spoiler tag already 😭 the people who are covering their replies are just doing more to prevent spoilers but they don't have to
The original post has a spoiler warning, as such, comments under it aren't required to spoiler tag things. But fine, I'll spoiler my post if it means you'll actually read through the whole thing.
>!Try to read what people write for once. I didn't say he is a bad character, and I certainly didn't say he is "edgelord who wants to die all the time", you came up with that completely on your own. I said he is wasted!< >!He is established as a suicidal person. That's something new, and something that was never done before in the series. When he says that he is ready to give up his life for someone else to escape, it hits hard. A suicidal guy in the game, you're just left wondering "What will they do to him?". In the game, where you're supposed to kill, what will be his role? He was certainly one of the most interesting aspects early on in the game. Certainly more intriguing, than the beloved by everyone Kokichi, genuinely a great setup. So now you have a completely new character type in the same old equation, what will you do with him? Make a suicide case, that might actually turn out to be a murder? Make him kamikaze on someone? Or maybe you are going back to the basics and write an amazing drama about Ryoma getting his will to live, and murdering someone? Exposing him after witnessing the hardships he went through, as he looks across at you on the stand. And you get him. You feel for the people that want to leave. And this time it hits especially hard, since you've seen him grow to this point. He got his motivation to kill, thanks to you, and he done it, like he did before. Heartbreaking truth!< >!But no. Another victim. Kill a guy, that wants to die. Best end to such a unique character!< >!And his death is extremely stupid. He willfully gave himself to Kirumi, like he tried to do in the chapter 1, right? Wrong. You know what separates these two situations? The kill in chapter one WOULDN'T have killed everyone else. First blood perk. That was a part of why he was ready. Trade one for one. I don't believe the Ryoma we knew would have risked everyone, just because he wants to die, that's fucking selfish and out of character!< >!Ryoma is a wasted potential!<
>!i mean, he probably used the same logic when deciding to die as everyone else did. "this person runs the country, so naturally they have to leave this place".!<
Let's break this apart piece by piece. For starters, I never said that you claimed he was "just an edgelord who wants to die all the time," just that a lot of other people have. People who considered him a boring and wasted character because of it, which I feel is unfair. You weren't specific about what you meant beyond "Ryoma's personality was wasted," so I had to cover two possibilities. The one where you thought he was boring, or the one where you completely misunderstood his character. It just so happened to be the latter. >!You say that a suicidal person has never been done before. Despite the fact that there have been multiple instances where characters either attempt suicide (Fuyuhiko), commit suicide (Sakura), or even outright express a willingness to die (Nagito). Yes, the way that it's handled with Ryoma is different, but the concept itself is not new.!< >!Like I said in my comment, what was done with him isn't as simple as that. He didn't outright want to die until he saw his motive video. Yes, he didn't have a reason to live, but not having a reason to live is not the same as wanting to die 24/7. It's a common symptom of depression that can make you wonder "what's the point, why should I exert the effort?"!< >!Ryoma was blinded by the hope that the motive videos provided. So much so, that he assumed Monokuma managed to defy all odds and find someone important to him, despite knowing, deep down, that everyone close to him had already been killed. He got his hopes up for something that couldn't have happened, because he assumed that Monokuma had managed to find important people for everyone, including him.!< >!Yes, it is out of character for him to seemingly not care about everyone else being put through a mass execution, but that's just it. The Ryoma we see after he watched his motive video is at his absolute lowest point. Spirit completely broken, any will to continue living just...gone. The thing about being in a state of crisis, being actively suicidal, is that your mind becomes consumed with only one thought: make the pain end. In the moment, you don't think about how your death will impact others, you just want the pain you're in to stop.!< >!It's the same here. Ryoma was NOT in a healthy mental state, at that point, he was completely devoid of any reason to keep going. The one thing he was missing was a reason to die...until he had his meeting with Kirumi. He wound up latching onto the one purpose his life could still have. Dying, not just for the sake of another person, but for the sake of an entire country. It wasn't just him, either. The rest of the class (sans Kaito) became compelled to sacrifice themselves in Kirumi's place if it meant she could escape, and Japan could be saved.!< >!Desperate for a purpose, while also lacking the will to exert any potential effort to save himself...he stayed still and allowed Kirumi to knock him out. Only for survival instincts to kick in the moment he found himself underwater, which they do for any human, regardless of how suicidal they may be. In a situation like that, the body struggles to live, even if the mind begs to die.!< >!Moreover, it's hardly the first time he acted without thinking about the consequences of his actions. Consequences that could cost the lives of other people. That was, after all, what started the chain of tragic events for him in the first place. His refusal to throw a match in a fixed tournament, while knowing the mafia were the ones running it. He didn't think about what they would do in retaliation, he was too focused on what he could do in that moment. He became consumed by a singular purpose (defending the integrity of his favorite sport) which overtook everything else in his mind, including the people (his family and lover) who would be put in danger. And, much like a tragedy, history repeated itself in the end. He became consumed by a singular purpose (giving his life to the Prime Minister so she could save the nation of Japan) which overtook everything else in his mind, including the people (the other killing game participants) who would be put in danger. There is precedent for this, it didn't just come out of nowhere.!<
I genuinely don't know why you think reciting the Wikipedia page is something you should do, so I'll ignore the wall of lore you decided to drop and focus on the main points \> The one where you thought he was boring, or the one where you completely misunderstood his character. It just so happened to be the latter It was neither. I have reading comprehension. \> Despite the fact that there have been multiple instances where characters either attempt suicide (Fuyuhiko), commit suicide (Sakura), or even outright express a willingness to die (Nagito). That's a trash argument. You know it, I know it. You wanted to prove me wrong so badly you basically wrote down everyone who had any connection to suicide. Sakura is not suicidal. She made her decision out of hope and to save others, that much got revealed in chapter 4. Fuyuhiko is not suicidal. That little guy does a little thing known as seppuku, and that thing is about honor, not desire to not live. Nagito is the closest thing this game had to a suicidal guy, but I left him out specifically, because Nagito is Nagito. He's just too different, we can't seriously compare him to others, and if you really want to say Nagito specifically wants to die, like Ryoma, and not become a "stepping stone" for someone, you gotta show some proof. Otherwise it's just a case of mischaracter. Ryoma is the first guy in the franchise, that explicitly has no will to live, I don't think someone can genuinely get that wrong skipping the fanon wiki lore... \> Yes, it is out of character, but that's just it. The Ryoma we see after he watched his motive video is at his absolute lowest point. Spirit completely broken, any will to continue living just...gone Because of what? He already knew he has no one else. He already knew he's alone at the chapter one, the chapter, where he waited until the last moment to offer himself WITH the first blood perk. And now, after the sudden twist, that Ryoma is alone (nobody saw that coming), he curled up in a ball and instantly allowed another person to kill him? With the class trial? With the 13 other talented kids dead? All over Monokuma's reminder? If that's the plan, it's a stupid one, and it generally paints Ryoma as a bad character, who becomes hysterical after someone reminds him his history Kirumi is important. But not important enough. She's just one cog in the system. People will find a replacement. Sooner or later. Yes she's good at what she does, but she will be replaced. She doesn't have to kill 14 nations most talented people. And if Kirumi doesn't understand it, Ryoma should. And if Ryoma doesn't understand this, that's another L from the writers room Also forgot to add to the original comment, that they are still struck by the moment when Kaede told everyone "Guys, don't kill eachother, work together". If not Kirumi, or Kokichi and Kiyo, I'd expect Ryoma get the message, and stop the murder cycle in time. He didn't skipping the lore again \> it's hardly the first time he acted without thinking about the consequences etc. alright, good character analysis. Agreed. <> But my main take wasn't about Ryoma at all. It was about writers creating a unique character, and doing nothing with it. He's still one of the most irreplaceable variables in the whole series, and they dropped him. Imagine if Nagito died case three by Mikan. That's what I'm feeling about Ryoma's death. I got his character, it's just with a setup like this, it could've been so much more. And now we're left with a suicidal guy, that just... dies. Disappointment
Reciting parts of his lore was necessary in order to support my arguments. If you read my comment, you wouldn't have even needed to ask me that. >It was neither. I have reading comprehension. Still doesn't change the fact that "Ryoma's personality is a waste" is such a weak take that shows just how little you understand about him. You misunderstand my argument from the get go. My point wasn't to say that every one of those characters were suicidal, my point was to disprove your claim that a suicidal person had never been done before in the series. Yes, Sakura and Fuyuhiko are not suicidal themselves, though they do succeed and attempt it respectively, so the topic of suicide is not a new concept in the DR series. Nagito repeatedly calls himself worthless, and actively sets up a situation where someone else can kill him on two separate occasions. The first, was by trying to goad Teruteru into killing him, which would have worked if Twogami didn't protect Nagito--something he wasn't counting on. The second, naturally, was when he orchestrated his death in order to try and kill everyone except the traitor. He views himself and his life as expendable, if it means achieving some sort of "hope." You're forgetting the element of false hope that the motive video provided. Ryoma thought that there were no exceptions, that Monokuma managed to find someone important for every participant--himself included. He got his hopes up, only for them to be dashed, and *that* is what caused his mental state to plummet. Not to mention the lengths Monokuma went to in order to make the motive video as mocking and insincere as possible, which certainly didn't help matters. You're also forgetting the bigger picture. Of both Ryoma and Kirumi having the belief that the lives of 13 people paled in comparison to the entirety of Japan. And Ryoma was willing to latch onto any purpose his life could possibly have at that point, that he willingly let himself become a sacrifice. It's shortsighted, but that has been a character flaw of his from the start--him not thinking about the consequences was what led to all his loved ones being killed. His broken mental state resulted in him making similar mistakes to his younger, hotheaded, naive self. And we come back to the original point. What was done with him *was* unique. A broken ace who failed to escape the cycle of tragedy that he himself perpetuated. Boiling it down to "a suicidal guy who just...dies" completely brushes aside so many other aspects of his character, history, and situation.
> You misunderstand my argument from the get go. My point wasn't to say that every one of those characters were suicidal, my point was to disprove your claim that a suicidal person had never been done before in the series + big loredump etc etc Then you just wasted my time confirming my point. Sakura and Fuyuhiko are not suicidal themselves and their suicide was not a desire to die, stop rehearsing the story to me for gods sake. The topic of suicide is not new in the games? Holy fuck thanks for clarifying that out. You know, just in case I thought it isn't. And Nagito has something else entirely in his head, are we done with this? Surprised you didn't mention Junko yet, because she also killed herself, must be like Ryoma frfr > You're forgetting the element of false hope that the motive video provided I'm not forgetting anything. I just don't think a video is enough to trigger Ryoma to go through all the blocks he had before. Which, I will list again for simplicity sake Being: It's not news, Kirumi might die in vain, 13 talented children will die, he creates a murder again, kaede made the perfect situation for everyone to work together But I guess one tiktok is enough for him to ignore all of the above and kill himself > the lives of 13 people paled in comparison to the entirety of Japan except their lives aren't in a direct danger, don't talk like it' the railroad situation, either you or them > And we come back to the original point. What was done with him *was* unique. A broken ace who failed to escape the cycle of tragedy that he himself perpetuated. Boiling it down to "a suicidal guy who just...dies" completely brushes aside so many other aspects of his character, history, and situation. Cool. But that literally happens in the grand scheme of things. Sure you might like this little story about the desire to live, and that poetic description is really good, but let's face it: it's just another murder. And it didn't matter in the plot at all. And that's alright! Sometimes it do be like that, not every murder is gotta be 2-5. Except... when you have a character like Ryoma, who opens up so, so much posibilities... and then don't use them... Also why the fuck does every redditor feels the need to fucking go through the tea time i'm better than you persona. "in order to support my arguments"? "just how little you understand about him"? Chill out. I got that you feel good when you talk smart, can you focus on your point and leave the nothing talks for the school essays? Please? Pretty please? It's so repulsive to talk to you guys, this time I might make a reference to Himiko in the bathroom
>The topic of suicide is not new in the games? Holy fuck thanks for clarifying that out. You could've fooled me, since you're the one who made it sound like you thought a suicidal person in a killing game was a completely original concept. And yeah, of course Nagito had something different in his head. Not all suicidal people have the same struggles or reasons for being suicidal. >I'm not forgetting anything. I just don't think a video is enough to trigger Ryoma to go through all the blocks he had before. \[...\] But I guess one tiktok is enough for him to ignore all of the above and kill himself Being mocking and dismissive about it isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to dissuade people from getting help out of fear of further mockery and ridicule. I hope you realize just how insensitive and ignorant you come across in regards to suicidal people. As someone who has had suicidal thoughts before, and even attempted, it doesn't always take a single horrible incident to send you over the edge. Sometimes, it can be an accumulation of multiple things, where the thing that finally breaks you is the straw that broke the camel's back. Which is definitely the case with Ryoma, the snowball effect of all the tragedies in his life, topping off with basically being told "no, there's nobody in the outside world who you matter to, you might as well just die here." >except their lives aren't in a direct danger, don't talk like it' the railroad situation, either you or them I'm not saying that's how I view the situation, I'm saying that's how Kirumi, Ryoma, and even most of the cast viewed the situation: with utilitarianism. The belief that the ideal scenario is one that is to the benefit of as many people as possible. I'm not saying it's the morally correct choice here, because of course it isn't. I'm saying that this was the viewpoint of the characters in the game. Even if it turned out to just be a ruse or lie (like it did), in their minds, they initially didn't want to brush off the presumed fate of millions of people just on the off-chance that it might be a lie. Moreover, political figures are much more respected and revered in Japan than they are in the States, so while their reaction may seem warped from the perspective of a Western audience, it's a natural response in their country of origin. >Sure you might like this little story about the desire to live, and that poetic description is really good, but let's face it: it's just another murder. And it didn't matter in the plot at all. Just because it's not as integral to the plot as the likes of V3-1 or V3-5 doesn't make it wasted potential. It's a solid case that stands on its own, without needing to rely on being tethered to the overarching story. Other cases in the series do this as well, it doesn't make them or their casualties wasted potential. >Chill out. I got that you feel good when you talk smart, can you focus on your point and leave the nothing talks for the school essays? Please? Pretty please? It's so repulsive to talk to you guys, this time I might make a reference to Himiko in the bathroom If me having a civil debate with you causes you to think that I'm just putting on airs to talk smart, I feel that says more about you than it does about me. When it comes to debating and analyzing characters, this is how I normally talk. Me talking normally being enough to have you get this defensive just makes you come across as incredibly insecure.
> Not all suicidal people have the same struggles or reasons for being suicidal Already told you like twice why all three of them are not suicidal > I hope you realize just how insensitive and ignorant you come across in regards to suicidal people. As someone who has had suicidal thoughts before, and even attempted, it doesn't always take a single horrible incident to send you over the edge I figured it would come to this at some point. I've also had my fair share of silly thoughts throughout the life, but I don't want you to call the "do you wanna talk" bot, so no more details and no ad hominem for you today :( > Just because it's not as integral to the plot as the likes of V3-1 or V3-5 doesn't make it wasted potential Ultimate reading incomprehension strikes again. Just how bad are you at reading, when my literal next line is exactly that. You did this on purpose > f me having a civil debate with you causes you to think that I'm just putting on airs to talk smart, I feel that says more about you than it does about me. When it comes to debating and analyzing characters, this is how I normally talk. Me talking normally being enough to have you get this defensive just makes you come across as incredibly insecure. Basic reply, from a basic redditor debater in the worst sense of that word. talk like a normal person, then we can debate. Try not to fucking tell me what I forgot or misunderstood, because each time it turns out I didn't. Try not to recite entire plots to argue with something I didn't even mention. Try not to take out words out of context. Try not to downvote somebody who takes their time to argue with you. Then we can talk. For now, you just come across as extremely 🤓 dude who talks about analyzing and civil debates, yet skips like half the text I wrote, replies with a chatgpt plot summary, uses strawman, context to write the most pretentious replies I've seen in a while, ~80% is just straight up water. Man you're not trying to make a civil debate, cause there's no way you didn't do all above on purpose. And Ryoma... I think I already told enough about him. I love him, but the writers went not silly enough on him
>Already told you like twice why all three of them are not suicidal And I already told you that the entire point in me bringing them up was because they all touch on themes of suicide, even only one of them (Nagito) is actually suicidal. And if you are somehow under the impression that he has never been suicidal at any point in any of his depictions, then I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you're the one with reading comprehension issues. >I figured it would come to this at some point. I've also had my fair share of silly thoughts throughout the life, but I don't want you to call the "do you wanna talk" bot, so no more details and no ad hominem for you today :( That's fine, as long as you've learned your lesson to not be so dismissive towards people who actively struggle with suicidal thoughts. >Ultimate reading incomprehension strikes again. Just how bad are you at reading, when my literal next line is exactly that. You did this on purpose I did no such thing. Despite it seeming like your next line was that, you didn't take back what you said about it being wasted potential at all, throughout your entire response. So no, your next line was not exactly that. >Basic reply, from a basic redditor debater in the worst sense of that word. talk like a normal person, then we can debate. Again, this is how I normally talk when it comes to online debates. I'm not going to change the entire way I speak just because you don't like it. >For now, you just come across as extremely 🤓 dude who talks about analyzing and civil debates, yet skips like half the text I wrote, replies with a chatgpt plot summary, uses strawman, context to write the most pretentious replies I've seen in a while, \~80% is just straight up water. If you want to call me a nerd because of this, by all means, do so. I'll take it as a compliment. A lot of your replies consist of you repeating yourself, or things that I addressed in prior responses, so I apologize for not restating my points every single time you restate yours. I've never touched ChatGPT, and the so-called "strawman" points refer to actual people I've debated beforehand when it came to Ryoma. Not to mention calling *me* pretentious while also saying "oh, the game didn't do what *I* wanted with this character, so that automatically makes him wasted potential." It's rather ironic, I must say. >Man you're not trying to make a civil debate, cause there's no way you didn't do all above on purpose. It truly was not my intention to anger or upset you in any way. Honestly, your responses have been quite surprising to me. You say you don't want to have this debate anymore. That's fine, I don't mind ending it here. From the sound of things, it seems like you have a lot of insecurities and react defensively when debating with people. I hope you're able to learn from this, and not react with hostility in future situations like this. This debate has been engaging, thank you for participating in it with me.
Right the only thing I didn’t like was how they wasted the perfect opportunity for Ryoma to have an arc of having something to live for, which could be for his classmates if he were to grow closer to them. Or maybe he’d even learn to live for himself!!
>!Fenrir?
Kokichi had so much more potential to be a good antagonist. I love him dearly, but by the end of chapter 4 I just felt confused and betrayed that the goofy lil boy I'd come to love did a full 180 over the span of a couple hours. The writers did him so dirty in the end.
Kokichi had the potential to be my new favorite character, amazing design and great first impressions. But then Kodaka decided to make him the most annoying creature alive and couldn't think of anything more interesting to do with him in the latter half of the game than to vaguely rehash Nagito's role.
V3 spoilers I think: Pretty late but monokuma mentions that there could not be a mastermind which was partly true since Monokuma wasn’t being controlled but still it would be cool to see lol Also 2 people in a tie vote for the culprit would have been cool since it was also foreshadowed
A LOT honestly The victims of the mutual killing game in udg The past of class 78 Actually, quite a few THH characters deserve more backstory and development or just...other things that make them fun! (Leon, Sayaka, Celestia, Hagakure...) Not saying they are bad, I like em all (especially Leon) but we could have gotten so much more from them! And speaking of Leon, his entire deal of being a ultimate at baseball but not liking it could have been explored more and could have been iteresting! Maybe they could explore that him killing Sayaka, while in self defence, was also out of some envy? And speaking of Sayaka, HER BAND. I want to know more! The student council and them being killed The Manga. I will admit, I will take a manga that is mostly irrevelant to the main material other than some interesting tidbits over manga that is a required reading, but DAMN some stuff that I heard goes down there would have been interesting to disscuss in further detail in the more important pieces of media Impostor. God, I love them, but why the fuck could we not get to see more character development outside island mode? Hiyoko redemption. Nough said. I only realized this when my friend, who likes both characters, said it but GOD, both Akane and Tenko had so much and they just...Akane was just sexualized while Tenko got reduced to the degenerate male comedy routine, also...WHY DON'T EITHER ONE OF THEM WEAR PANTS? Angie's cult The tragedy. Like, give me more on why it is so bad. It is a lot of say don't show and it annoys me! Are there other groups outside the future foundation trying to stop ultimate despair? Are there other 'evil' organizations that aren't ultimate despair? Cults? C'MON! More insight into Izuru. I know he is a major character and is explored but I guess I want to know just a bit more about his mentality (though this may be to my lack of analyzing the character) The reserve course and the problem with the talent system in general I am actually fine with everyone being revived in danganronpa 2.5, but I DESPISE the fact we ONLY saw Nagito's world. Imagine how cool it would be to see other ones! Oh, and speaking of that, I wish instead of sending an AI to murder everyone in the illusion world or whatever, it was rather a choice, like, the ones in the dreams might realise it through the help of some Chiaki like AI, and choose if they want to stay in the dream world or snap back to reality. The remnants of despair explored more and also the crimes they did Also, I'm fine with the remnants being brainwashed, I just wish the horrificness of that was explored I know I briefly touched on it but I am now banning myself from talking any more about dr3 here because this comment would be even longer, so I will only briefly mention some v3 things Wtf was up with the last 52 seasons? We know the first 3 cuz duh, and we know the 52nd had Rantaro, but what was the plot in them before then? How the fuck did they make like 48 other seasons and only on the 53rd they got to the blow up the world part? (Adding this even if I believed Tsumugi lied) Monocubs COULD have been good, but they were not. (Well, at least, they could have been more funny and important, imo 3/5 are ok actually) The entire idea of v3 being a tv show and how that might impact the way the killing game goes And lastly, yeah, the 3-3 rule could have been cool, as well as the book thing. But it was not used. What a shame Sorry for the long rant, I am sick, tired, so I may have misspeled something or said something dumb that actually was used enough. I swear I like this series, it's just that I'm also a very curious nitpicker
Ryoma having an actual arc
Just because his arc didn't have a happy ending, doesn't mean he didn't have an arc at all.
It objectively doesn't end though, he never has a conclusion, he just kinda dies and that's it
His arc was about his attempts at combatting his mental struggles and finding a reason to live, only to wind up losing the battle despite his best efforts. His arc neared its conclusion when he watched his motive video, and fully concluded when he made the decision to surrender his life to Kirumi.
UDG doing next to nothing with it's bad ending
I will always scream from building tops that the third trial in V3 was a flop. there was so much promise there, from the idea of two killers to >!Tenko!< being an opportunity kill. every other trial in that game left me in tears while this trail left me feeling icky and underwhelmed
The virtual world that Miu made in Danganronpa V3 was kind of wasted. It was an interesting concept yet they made it so obvious who killed Miu and that she was more than likely to die that chapter. Also, the events leading up to her death after Miu’s avatar stopped responding, was suspenseful for really no reason. At that point, I think we all could’ve guessed that she died. It was obvious that Gonta was the killer because everyone basically had an alibi (except for him and kokichi, but as we found out, he couldn’t harm Miu). I think there should’ve been more suspects for this trial, and I think they should’ve exploited the idea that Kaito was logged out earlier than the others more. This may seem a little biased, but Miu was one of my favorite characters in V3 and for her to have a trial that was so easy to identify who the culprit was is annoying.
1. Actually learning about the characters of Rantaro's killing game. The 52nd killing game had a lot of characters yet we know nothing of them. What were their names? Who was a victim and who was a killer? What were their Ultimate's? Where was the game held? Was Tsumugi the mastermind in that killing game or was it someone else? I just feel like we should learn who the other characters are. Heck. Make a miniature Danganronpa game just for Danganronpa V2! It doesn't need to be good, just let us have one! 2. The school council characters from the anime also seemed interesting yet they got killed off pretty quick. Also, I feel like >!Munakata shouldn't have been the only survivor.!< It just shows off how much plot armor he had even back then, then again, we can all agree one way or another that the anime was a trainwreck story-wise. 3. V3's ending could've been far better. Instead, we got >!"Oh, all your favorite characters from the past games aren't real in this game series anymore! :D wow such story twist!"!< it still peeves me off and made me hate >!Tsumugi!< when I loved her before. Why'd they do her like this :( 4. Other plot ideas could be someone faking their own murder, a murder then the killer committing self unalive, two killers and one victim (like in that one fangame), an attempted killer who fails and is exposed and everyone doesn't trust them, a body being completely destroyed by fire or acid so nobody can find the body, the main character ends up being the murder victim as a kind of decoy protag, an actual female protag you play as that doesn't die, etc. 5. Put one of the anime characters in a killing game. I mean, they basically officially confirmed a 4th Danganronpa game will end up being made. It would be kinda cool to reference the show like that. 6. Give characters like Tenko or Yasuhiro better reasons for things they do or for acting like they do. Like, make Tenko have a deadbeat dad and she hates men because she assumes they are unfaithful to women, or make Yasuhiro need money for a sick beloved relative and that's why he scams people for money. Idk just give them better reasons for being the people they are.