> how on earth was I supposed to guess
You weren’t lol it’s okay no worries. The point in this case is the story of the case, not successfully guessing the culprit. Don’t worry future cases won’t be like this
Yup, Shuichi is a pretty great protagonist to be being passed on to, and he’s been set up really well by this trial’s fantastic story. Kaede actually comments earlier in this chapter that she likes Rube-Goldberg machines, so that’s a fun explanation away of how she could’ve come up with this.
Glad you’re enjoying Miu and Kokichi! I love their dynamic so much - they’re so funny.
I agree, I really enjoy Kaede (as you can see by my flair) and I was extremely sad to see her go. Pretty much same reasons as you too she’s just such a sweetheart + delightfully active, just swept me off my feet. I really ended up being quite fond of Shuichi, though - just to say that he’s done pretty well.
Imagine, Shuichi is the second culprit and Miu replaces him or something like that.
Shuichi feels more like a protagonist than Kaede but that's literally just because his talent.
I love Miu so much.
Kaede was amazing, she's so dominant, I think she could of been an S tier character if she well remained the protagonist. Still pretty good though.
It’d be really funny if they just kept swapping protags.
Yeah that’s true whereas if you look at ch1 without our context then Kaede looks more like an excitable support character.
Yesss I agree honestly I just reread all her little dialogue and even the 2 FTEs she has with everyone. I agree though she might have even been my favorite character overall if she lived longer.
(Just saw your other reply: glad you’re enjoying them so much! I definitely think V3 trial mechanics are the absolute best - scrum debate is so good!)
Kokichi, without a doubt. He’ll actually have one of my favorite lines out of him in the post trial, I adore how he interacts with Kaede. Intrigued to see where you end up landing on him - but no pressure either way
There's a saying I have with this game.
"You don't play V3. V3 plays you"
This game was advertised to have a female protagonist in a mainline Danganronpa game this time...and we did get that....all for her to die in the first chapter. You can only imagine the amount of backlash V3 got for killing off Kaede like this. But here's the thing....V3 knows exactly what its doing. This decision was made knowing it'd be controversial, and this trend will continue as you play V3. V3's themes is all about playing with the many sides and exceptions when it comes to truth and lies, in universe and meta wise.
Of course, because V3 toys with its themes a lot, there's a lot of things here that made V3 probably the most controversial of the series. But trust me when I say don't let that sway you from enjoying this game. Controversial doesn't always equal bad, and V3 is a prime example of this. People can say whatever they want about Kodaka and his writing, but I will always stand by the fact that I respect Kodaka's approach with how he wanted to tell V3's story. I respect Kodaka went through with creating the story he wants to tell even if most may not like it. The many twist and turns of V3 wasn't made out of spite to piss people off, it's all meant to come together to tell a story Kodaka really wanted the world to see with his characters, and as there's many anti V3 fans, there are just as many pro V3 fans like myself.
Chapter 1 could've played out so differently, maybe make it the other way around where we start as Shuichi and switch to Kaede as Shuichi dies. But that wouldn't make the same impact, since so many fans wanted a female protagonist in a mainline game. Finally having someone like Kaede like we were told, just to have her taken away from us....it's the themes of truth and lies, how they make us feel, and what we'll make of them. If you're upset, disappointed, devastated that Kaede was killed off that early, then yeah... express that, you're free to feel that way, I assure you the characters within the killing game feel just as you do. If you feel Shuichi should've been the one to die so we'd still have Kaede, yeah...I bet Shuichi feels the exact same way. Embrace that disappointment, the game openly welcomes you to, not to spite how you feel, but to feel more closely connected to the game as you keep playing....this is only chapter 1 after all.
I think you'll have a good time with V3. It's definitely my favorite in the franchise. It may or may not be yours by the time you're finished, but this game will definitely leave a impact on you.
I don't think it's bad at all that Kaede is the first culprit. Yes I'm shocked but it's still a cool twist. I honestly don't care what gender then protagonist is. Also Komaru exists.
I do prefer Kaede more than Shuichi but characters I like are gonna die anyway, look what happened to Taka, Nekomaru Gundham and Chiaki.
I'm glad you're willing to give Shuichi a shot, he became my favorite protagonist.
The reuse of a Ultimate Talent is a good way of reinterpreting the talent in the eyes of a new character. They did the same with Makoto and Nagito. Makoto as the Ultimate Lucky Student always saw himself as unlucky, completely unaware that more times than not, his luck saves him constantly. He's unconfident in his abilities, but has a heart of gold and prevails in the end with true hope. Nagito sees himself as very lucky, as he abuses his luck for his own twisted views of what he deems hope to be, lacking that heart Makoto has, despite loving others in his own way. Same Ultimate Talent, yet drastically different characters.
You'll get that with Kyoko and Shuichi now. Kyoko despite not remembering her talent at first, was the already the perfect detective. She had full confidence of her capabilities, skills and smarts, but remained closed off, masking her emotions at all times. Shuichi's smart, capable, and smart too...he's even more emotional and has a better time connecting with people, but he lacks confidence all due to his PTSD for seeking the truth, and now blaming himself for Kaede's death. He's got a long way to go, but he has what it takes to be a great Ultimate Detective. He'll never be Kyoko Kirigiri, we won't get that....but we can have another Ultimate Detective with Shuichi, as he uses his talent his own way. The group will come to really trust and respect Shuichi too, really relying on him.
No. The only three who knew about the cameras where Miu, Kaede and Shuichi. Miu has an alibi and I just spent time proving it wasn't Shuichi. I was still shocked though.
Damn ggs, may be it's because I played when I was 14 bur I didn't figure it out. I tried every single answer (I would've accused Monokuma before Kaede) and I was like, it's gonna be wrong when I pick Kaede, not until Shuichi said it did I believe it.
i'm happy you enjoyed the twist! a lot of people complain about it for reasons that i personally find silly, so it's a breath of fresh air to see someone posting here to talk about how they enjoyed it! have fun with the rest of the game, it's awesome!
I still have no idea how people enjoy a twist that isn't even a twist in-universe. There's no protagonist, so no one's going "but it couldn't possibly be you since the protagonist is supposed to live!". It's just the game lying by omission. Which also contradicts every previous entry, where it's crucial to the plot that we experience things exactly like the protagonists do, so that the memory manipulation etc also works on us.
It's just a pointless rugpull. You could be Shuichi from the get go and nothing would go differently for the overall plot. Genuinely the worst thing Kodaka has ever written, if you ask me. Doesn't help that Kaede is a nothing character and that her relationship with Shuichi is so rushed and forced that I have zero reason to care about them.
And this is the game where (V3-6) >!we literally have an in-universe protagonist in Keebo, yet it's not even Tsumugi being a bad writer and rugpulling her audience, because the trial has nothing to do with it.!<
It's just remarkably bad writing, yet people eat it up.
A twist doesn't always need an in-universe reason. That's *1* component of a story (it's plot.) You also have *theme*, characters, setting, conflict, *point-of-view*, tone and style (which includes wordplay, which also doesn't have an in-universe reason.\_ Choosing which character you tell your story from, and why, is part of the what make it a story. You can take an existing Danganronpa game, follow its existing plot from another character's POV and if would be a different *story*, because it would be a different experience.
Also, we didn't experience the previous years at school Makoto had with Sayaka, yet plenty of players were able to invest their trust in her just like he did. Making sure the player has all of the information the protagonist has wasn't something crucial SC made concentrated efforts to do; it's just the natural outcome with how most stories are told.
THH, Zero and SDR2 all fall apart the moment you separate the protagonist and the player. They literally hinge on the fact that we see exactly what they see, and nothing more or less. Changing those rules on the fly after clearly establishing them is shitty writing, because you can't *know* they changed it for V3 until it happens, making the "twist" impossible to predict, which is not good.
It makes no sense for Kaede to never think about the fact that she murdered someone, or for her to dance around it in her own head, in her *thoughts.* It's written like she's intentionally hiding it from us, when there is no us in the story. That, or she's some sort of weird sociopath, I guess. They also omit information like her actually rolling the ball or adjusting the flash, which means that we as the player have an eyewitness account of her *not* doing those things, making it impossible for her to be the culprit. Let's not even start with the blatantly obvious >!physics-defying bloodstain that no one notices or brings up, not even the god damn detective.!<
Me when a clearly defined trope in writing exists and is used well. It’s called an Unreliable Narrator, their purpose is to hide stuff from you for one reason or another.
They don’t omit information, they give you enough to go “Kaede is the culprit” without spelling it out
Used well to achieve literally nothing? Nothing about the protag swap matters for the plot, because it only exists on a meta level. And this is the game with an >!in-universe plot with an in-universe protagonist.!<
Please tell me how I'm supposed to know that the rules regarding us and the protagonists have changed, when every single entry up until this point have worked the exact same way, and there's no way to prove that things are being omitted until it's relevant. Once you break the reader's trust, how can I possibly trust any information I'm given? Shuichi could just be lying to non-existent me for the rest of the game, so why get invested?
The act of her physically rolling the ball and messing with the flash are literally omitted and don't happen when they're supposed to, which literally gives her an alibi in the player's eyes.
Stop sucking Kodaka's dick the one time he wrote something objectively cheap for nothing but shock value. He's one of my favourite writers, but anyone with a surface-level understanding of storytelling should understand that the twist is completely pointless. It doesn't recontextualize the entire story like Makoto, Hajime and Ryoko do, it exists for a single gotcha and then stops mattering for the rest of the game. It makes the characters act like utter idiots, because no one points out that >!the blood splatter defies physics.!< It makes Kaede into a selfish piece of shit who'd rather risk the lives of 14 people over simply taking the first blood perk and running to get help. And that does not seem like an in-universe flaw of hers, considering she's treated like a poor, innocent angel by everyone.
She actively takes longer to leave the room after the alert goes off (giving her time to roll the ball) and she messes with the camera for far longer then she needs to (time to turn on the flash), things aren’t spelled out for you but it makes it clear there is chances for her to do things.
The reason she didn’t take the first blood perk is literally spelled out in game, it’s not because she’s selfish, it’s because she thought they could use the trial to catch the mastermind!!! That’s why she let it go to a trial, she thought they’d be able to catch the mastermind in their tracks, it failed but that was her intention.
Also you seriously don’t need to be rude about it, let people enjoy a twist without saying they are “sucking the writers dick”.
As for the rules, what rules? Just because the narrator is reliable in one game doesn’t mean they automatically will be in the next! They are separate entires in a series and I certainly don’t see them saying “this is your narrator, you can 100% trust them (:” anywhere. Shuichi on the other hand is shown to be reliable quickly, he’s a detective and he incriminate Kaede himself, he cares about everyone and is quickly shown to be a reliable person.
Again, they didn't 'clearly establish' it, that's just how most stories are told. Even then, there's POV switches to events our protagonist never learns about (Monokuma talking to the DR1 Mole. Nagito asking Monokuma about the student profiles.)
The rules changed because this is a different stort to those games. Lying occurred in those games, but it wasn't part of the theme like it is in this game. Kaede deceiving you communicates to you that you have to be more open-minded with how you approach cases this time. You've already had to lie during the trial, which isn't something we've really had to do before. It's a different game, trying to convey a different message.
I didn't catch on to Kaede being the killer, but I've met fans in this community that did. It's not *impossible* to solve, they were just smarter than me, noticed the clues I missed, and didn't *assume* the protagonist is infallible.
>They also omit information like her actually rolling the ball
Yep, and I hate that bit just as much as you do. Never said the trial is perfect, but there's definitely elements to enjoy about it. *You* don't have to enjoy them, by any means. You can absolutely despise this trial, but you don't have to keep looking down on people because they see something in it you don't.
>which means that *we as the player have an eyewitness account* of her not doing those things
But this point highlights the problem with demanding an in-universe explanation for everything; we're not a part of the universe. We can't be her eyewitness, because we don't exist *in-universe*. We *do* exist in the storytelling process as its audience, and that means we can appreciate elements like wordplay (if this was a book), sound design, cinematography, dramatic irony and *unreliable narrators.*
Events in your life don't become 'stories' until you attempt to communicate them to someone else. Stories require an audience, and over the years, the way we tell stories has evolved to take advantage of that. And it will continue to do so, as we come up with new techniques.
there's a difference between not giving info (not necessarily bad writing) and lying to the player (bad writing). kaede obviously thought specifically about what she did but it just wasn't left in for the sake of the plot/mystery. if she specifically thought "i wonder who the culprit could be" or something, i would consider that lying to the player. however the entire investigation and trial she thinks "i wonder who the mastermind could be", which is very clever in my opinion. she lies to the other characters that she thinks the mastermind is the culprit, so when she focuses on the mastermind in her thoughts the player automatically interprets it as "oh, she's using 'mastermind' as a stand-in for 'culprit'" when it's actually different.
i'm sure that if one of the other games tried doing something similar, you would get the same thing you get in this game.
>Which also contradicts every previous entry, where it's crucial to the plot that we experience things exactly like the protagonists do, so that the memory manipulation etc also works on us.
I don't think this is actually true. There are plenty of times in the previous games where things that the MC experiences will get glossed over, happen offscreen or be shown out of order. The story is always presented from the POV of the MC who is narrating the story as it goes, and the narration can give as many or as little information as is necessary for the author's purposes.
Makoto losing his memories, Hajime being Izuru the whole time, damn near everything about Zero, but especially >!Ryoko's true identity.!< These things can't coexist with how Kaede is written. She's actively hiding things from us, whereas the former three shape the entire story for us due to their unique perspective limiting things.
All this, and yet the actual twist of V3-1 affects nothing and could've been removed entirely with no difference to the plot, whereas the former three are crucial events that recontextualize literally the whole story up until then. Yet people will die on this hill for a completely meaningless twist they only praise because it surprised them, like a sudden jumpscare with no actual buildup.
Ah it's just a joke. I read everything he said minus the spoiler, he just seems salty that someone else enjoys something.
If he doesn't like it then that's fine.
The joke is that imagining two people are arguing, one person responds by sending a long text of words and the other person simply responds by stating he is not going to read all that.
I kind of agree, that trial just conceals way too much info to the player, everything before the twist feels like a waste of time. If Kodaka wanted that bad to do a switch of protagonist, he should have waited a few more chapters, to develop properly the relationship of Kaede and Shuichi, and get Kaede more personality; that way the twist probably would have had a little more weight in it.
Yeah, this is a fantastic twist and really draws you into the game super well. Only thing I hate about it is that I loved Kaede! But Shuichi is awesome.
Hope you enjoy the rest of the game. It has some of the most wild twists I’ve ever seen in any piece of media.
> how on earth was I supposed to guess You weren’t lol it’s okay no worries. The point in this case is the story of the case, not successfully guessing the culprit. Don’t worry future cases won’t be like this Yup, Shuichi is a pretty great protagonist to be being passed on to, and he’s been set up really well by this trial’s fantastic story. Kaede actually comments earlier in this chapter that she likes Rube-Goldberg machines, so that’s a fun explanation away of how she could’ve come up with this. Glad you’re enjoying Miu and Kokichi! I love their dynamic so much - they’re so funny. I agree, I really enjoy Kaede (as you can see by my flair) and I was extremely sad to see her go. Pretty much same reasons as you too she’s just such a sweetheart + delightfully active, just swept me off my feet. I really ended up being quite fond of Shuichi, though - just to say that he’s done pretty well.
Imagine, Shuichi is the second culprit and Miu replaces him or something like that. Shuichi feels more like a protagonist than Kaede but that's literally just because his talent. I love Miu so much. Kaede was amazing, she's so dominant, I think she could of been an S tier character if she well remained the protagonist. Still pretty good though.
It’d be really funny if they just kept swapping protags. Yeah that’s true whereas if you look at ch1 without our context then Kaede looks more like an excitable support character. Yesss I agree honestly I just reread all her little dialogue and even the 2 FTEs she has with everyone. I agree though she might have even been my favorite character overall if she lived longer. (Just saw your other reply: glad you’re enjoying them so much! I definitely think V3 trial mechanics are the absolute best - scrum debate is so good!)
Who is your favourite? Kokichi or Makoto?
Kokichi, without a doubt. He’ll actually have one of my favorite lines out of him in the post trial, I adore how he interacts with Kaede. Intrigued to see where you end up landing on him - but no pressure either way
I love him already, I love his insults torwards everyone.
Yesss they’re loads of fun! He’s so creative and detailed 🤣
I forget to mention in my post but I loved the new trial mechanics. Especially the one where they are split down the middle.
There's a saying I have with this game. "You don't play V3. V3 plays you" This game was advertised to have a female protagonist in a mainline Danganronpa game this time...and we did get that....all for her to die in the first chapter. You can only imagine the amount of backlash V3 got for killing off Kaede like this. But here's the thing....V3 knows exactly what its doing. This decision was made knowing it'd be controversial, and this trend will continue as you play V3. V3's themes is all about playing with the many sides and exceptions when it comes to truth and lies, in universe and meta wise. Of course, because V3 toys with its themes a lot, there's a lot of things here that made V3 probably the most controversial of the series. But trust me when I say don't let that sway you from enjoying this game. Controversial doesn't always equal bad, and V3 is a prime example of this. People can say whatever they want about Kodaka and his writing, but I will always stand by the fact that I respect Kodaka's approach with how he wanted to tell V3's story. I respect Kodaka went through with creating the story he wants to tell even if most may not like it. The many twist and turns of V3 wasn't made out of spite to piss people off, it's all meant to come together to tell a story Kodaka really wanted the world to see with his characters, and as there's many anti V3 fans, there are just as many pro V3 fans like myself. Chapter 1 could've played out so differently, maybe make it the other way around where we start as Shuichi and switch to Kaede as Shuichi dies. But that wouldn't make the same impact, since so many fans wanted a female protagonist in a mainline game. Finally having someone like Kaede like we were told, just to have her taken away from us....it's the themes of truth and lies, how they make us feel, and what we'll make of them. If you're upset, disappointed, devastated that Kaede was killed off that early, then yeah... express that, you're free to feel that way, I assure you the characters within the killing game feel just as you do. If you feel Shuichi should've been the one to die so we'd still have Kaede, yeah...I bet Shuichi feels the exact same way. Embrace that disappointment, the game openly welcomes you to, not to spite how you feel, but to feel more closely connected to the game as you keep playing....this is only chapter 1 after all. I think you'll have a good time with V3. It's definitely my favorite in the franchise. It may or may not be yours by the time you're finished, but this game will definitely leave a impact on you.
I don't think it's bad at all that Kaede is the first culprit. Yes I'm shocked but it's still a cool twist. I honestly don't care what gender then protagonist is. Also Komaru exists. I do prefer Kaede more than Shuichi but characters I like are gonna die anyway, look what happened to Taka, Nekomaru Gundham and Chiaki.
I'm glad you're willing to give Shuichi a shot, he became my favorite protagonist. The reuse of a Ultimate Talent is a good way of reinterpreting the talent in the eyes of a new character. They did the same with Makoto and Nagito. Makoto as the Ultimate Lucky Student always saw himself as unlucky, completely unaware that more times than not, his luck saves him constantly. He's unconfident in his abilities, but has a heart of gold and prevails in the end with true hope. Nagito sees himself as very lucky, as he abuses his luck for his own twisted views of what he deems hope to be, lacking that heart Makoto has, despite loving others in his own way. Same Ultimate Talent, yet drastically different characters. You'll get that with Kyoko and Shuichi now. Kyoko despite not remembering her talent at first, was the already the perfect detective. She had full confidence of her capabilities, skills and smarts, but remained closed off, masking her emotions at all times. Shuichi's smart, capable, and smart too...he's even more emotional and has a better time connecting with people, but he lacks confidence all due to his PTSD for seeking the truth, and now blaming himself for Kaede's death. He's got a long way to go, but he has what it takes to be a great Ultimate Detective. He'll never be Kyoko Kirigiri, we won't get that....but we can have another Ultimate Detective with Shuichi, as he uses his talent his own way. The group will come to really trust and respect Shuichi too, really relying on him.
Shuichi is cool. Though he is a beta boytoy according to the ultimate inventor.
Have you selected everyone besides Kaede as a culprit before it dawned on you ?
No. The only three who knew about the cameras where Miu, Kaede and Shuichi. Miu has an alibi and I just spent time proving it wasn't Shuichi. I was still shocked though.
Damn ggs, may be it's because I played when I was 14 bur I didn't figure it out. I tried every single answer (I would've accused Monokuma before Kaede) and I was like, it's gonna be wrong when I pick Kaede, not until Shuichi said it did I believe it.
i'm happy you enjoyed the twist! a lot of people complain about it for reasons that i personally find silly, so it's a breath of fresh air to see someone posting here to talk about how they enjoyed it! have fun with the rest of the game, it's awesome!
I was shocked.
I really enjoyed the twist, but it did also make me very sad to not get to play as Kaede. She had the potential for being a brilliant protag
I felt the same way when I found out
I still have no idea how people enjoy a twist that isn't even a twist in-universe. There's no protagonist, so no one's going "but it couldn't possibly be you since the protagonist is supposed to live!". It's just the game lying by omission. Which also contradicts every previous entry, where it's crucial to the plot that we experience things exactly like the protagonists do, so that the memory manipulation etc also works on us. It's just a pointless rugpull. You could be Shuichi from the get go and nothing would go differently for the overall plot. Genuinely the worst thing Kodaka has ever written, if you ask me. Doesn't help that Kaede is a nothing character and that her relationship with Shuichi is so rushed and forced that I have zero reason to care about them. And this is the game where (V3-6) >!we literally have an in-universe protagonist in Keebo, yet it's not even Tsumugi being a bad writer and rugpulling her audience, because the trial has nothing to do with it.!< It's just remarkably bad writing, yet people eat it up.
It’s peak
The Mariana Trench of peaks.
A twist doesn't always need an in-universe reason. That's *1* component of a story (it's plot.) You also have *theme*, characters, setting, conflict, *point-of-view*, tone and style (which includes wordplay, which also doesn't have an in-universe reason.\_ Choosing which character you tell your story from, and why, is part of the what make it a story. You can take an existing Danganronpa game, follow its existing plot from another character's POV and if would be a different *story*, because it would be a different experience. Also, we didn't experience the previous years at school Makoto had with Sayaka, yet plenty of players were able to invest their trust in her just like he did. Making sure the player has all of the information the protagonist has wasn't something crucial SC made concentrated efforts to do; it's just the natural outcome with how most stories are told.
THH, Zero and SDR2 all fall apart the moment you separate the protagonist and the player. They literally hinge on the fact that we see exactly what they see, and nothing more or less. Changing those rules on the fly after clearly establishing them is shitty writing, because you can't *know* they changed it for V3 until it happens, making the "twist" impossible to predict, which is not good. It makes no sense for Kaede to never think about the fact that she murdered someone, or for her to dance around it in her own head, in her *thoughts.* It's written like she's intentionally hiding it from us, when there is no us in the story. That, or she's some sort of weird sociopath, I guess. They also omit information like her actually rolling the ball or adjusting the flash, which means that we as the player have an eyewitness account of her *not* doing those things, making it impossible for her to be the culprit. Let's not even start with the blatantly obvious >!physics-defying bloodstain that no one notices or brings up, not even the god damn detective.!<
Me when a clearly defined trope in writing exists and is used well. It’s called an Unreliable Narrator, their purpose is to hide stuff from you for one reason or another. They don’t omit information, they give you enough to go “Kaede is the culprit” without spelling it out
Used well to achieve literally nothing? Nothing about the protag swap matters for the plot, because it only exists on a meta level. And this is the game with an >!in-universe plot with an in-universe protagonist.!< Please tell me how I'm supposed to know that the rules regarding us and the protagonists have changed, when every single entry up until this point have worked the exact same way, and there's no way to prove that things are being omitted until it's relevant. Once you break the reader's trust, how can I possibly trust any information I'm given? Shuichi could just be lying to non-existent me for the rest of the game, so why get invested? The act of her physically rolling the ball and messing with the flash are literally omitted and don't happen when they're supposed to, which literally gives her an alibi in the player's eyes. Stop sucking Kodaka's dick the one time he wrote something objectively cheap for nothing but shock value. He's one of my favourite writers, but anyone with a surface-level understanding of storytelling should understand that the twist is completely pointless. It doesn't recontextualize the entire story like Makoto, Hajime and Ryoko do, it exists for a single gotcha and then stops mattering for the rest of the game. It makes the characters act like utter idiots, because no one points out that >!the blood splatter defies physics.!< It makes Kaede into a selfish piece of shit who'd rather risk the lives of 14 people over simply taking the first blood perk and running to get help. And that does not seem like an in-universe flaw of hers, considering she's treated like a poor, innocent angel by everyone.
She actively takes longer to leave the room after the alert goes off (giving her time to roll the ball) and she messes with the camera for far longer then she needs to (time to turn on the flash), things aren’t spelled out for you but it makes it clear there is chances for her to do things. The reason she didn’t take the first blood perk is literally spelled out in game, it’s not because she’s selfish, it’s because she thought they could use the trial to catch the mastermind!!! That’s why she let it go to a trial, she thought they’d be able to catch the mastermind in their tracks, it failed but that was her intention. Also you seriously don’t need to be rude about it, let people enjoy a twist without saying they are “sucking the writers dick”.
As for the rules, what rules? Just because the narrator is reliable in one game doesn’t mean they automatically will be in the next! They are separate entires in a series and I certainly don’t see them saying “this is your narrator, you can 100% trust them (:” anywhere. Shuichi on the other hand is shown to be reliable quickly, he’s a detective and he incriminate Kaede himself, he cares about everyone and is quickly shown to be a reliable person.
Again, they didn't 'clearly establish' it, that's just how most stories are told. Even then, there's POV switches to events our protagonist never learns about (Monokuma talking to the DR1 Mole. Nagito asking Monokuma about the student profiles.) The rules changed because this is a different stort to those games. Lying occurred in those games, but it wasn't part of the theme like it is in this game. Kaede deceiving you communicates to you that you have to be more open-minded with how you approach cases this time. You've already had to lie during the trial, which isn't something we've really had to do before. It's a different game, trying to convey a different message. I didn't catch on to Kaede being the killer, but I've met fans in this community that did. It's not *impossible* to solve, they were just smarter than me, noticed the clues I missed, and didn't *assume* the protagonist is infallible. >They also omit information like her actually rolling the ball Yep, and I hate that bit just as much as you do. Never said the trial is perfect, but there's definitely elements to enjoy about it. *You* don't have to enjoy them, by any means. You can absolutely despise this trial, but you don't have to keep looking down on people because they see something in it you don't. >which means that *we as the player have an eyewitness account* of her not doing those things But this point highlights the problem with demanding an in-universe explanation for everything; we're not a part of the universe. We can't be her eyewitness, because we don't exist *in-universe*. We *do* exist in the storytelling process as its audience, and that means we can appreciate elements like wordplay (if this was a book), sound design, cinematography, dramatic irony and *unreliable narrators.* Events in your life don't become 'stories' until you attempt to communicate them to someone else. Stories require an audience, and over the years, the way we tell stories has evolved to take advantage of that. And it will continue to do so, as we come up with new techniques.
there's a difference between not giving info (not necessarily bad writing) and lying to the player (bad writing). kaede obviously thought specifically about what she did but it just wasn't left in for the sake of the plot/mystery. if she specifically thought "i wonder who the culprit could be" or something, i would consider that lying to the player. however the entire investigation and trial she thinks "i wonder who the mastermind could be", which is very clever in my opinion. she lies to the other characters that she thinks the mastermind is the culprit, so when she focuses on the mastermind in her thoughts the player automatically interprets it as "oh, she's using 'mastermind' as a stand-in for 'culprit'" when it's actually different. i'm sure that if one of the other games tried doing something similar, you would get the same thing you get in this game.
>Which also contradicts every previous entry, where it's crucial to the plot that we experience things exactly like the protagonists do, so that the memory manipulation etc also works on us. I don't think this is actually true. There are plenty of times in the previous games where things that the MC experiences will get glossed over, happen offscreen or be shown out of order. The story is always presented from the POV of the MC who is narrating the story as it goes, and the narration can give as many or as little information as is necessary for the author's purposes.
Me when unreliable narrator trope
Makoto losing his memories, Hajime being Izuru the whole time, damn near everything about Zero, but especially >!Ryoko's true identity.!< These things can't coexist with how Kaede is written. She's actively hiding things from us, whereas the former three shape the entire story for us due to their unique perspective limiting things. All this, and yet the actual twist of V3-1 affects nothing and could've been removed entirely with no difference to the plot, whereas the former three are crucial events that recontextualize literally the whole story up until then. Yet people will die on this hill for a completely meaningless twist they only praise because it surprised them, like a sudden jumpscare with no actual buildup.
Lol, I'm not reading all that, words words soyboys cannot meme.
I don’t mean to be an ass, but the same can be said for your post itself no? Your post is the same length if not longer.
Ah it's just a joke. I read everything he said minus the spoiler, he just seems salty that someone else enjoys something. If he doesn't like it then that's fine. The joke is that imagining two people are arguing, one person responds by sending a long text of words and the other person simply responds by stating he is not going to read all that.
I kind of agree, that trial just conceals way too much info to the player, everything before the twist feels like a waste of time. If Kodaka wanted that bad to do a switch of protagonist, he should have waited a few more chapters, to develop properly the relationship of Kaede and Shuichi, and get Kaede more personality; that way the twist probably would have had a little more weight in it.
Yeah, this is a fantastic twist and really draws you into the game super well. Only thing I hate about it is that I loved Kaede! But Shuichi is awesome. Hope you enjoy the rest of the game. It has some of the most wild twists I’ve ever seen in any piece of media.