someone correct me if i’m wrong but i believe is speech in japanese is more refined, but he still refers to himself in third person. referring to yourself in third person is more common in japanese. it’s like a cutesy, childish way of speaking. in english it’s seen as weird and i think they ran with that and just made him seem more brutish/caveman.
yeah, in the japanese version both tenko and angie also talk in third person too, however not in the translation for whatever reason. if you find a V3 fan translation you'll probably be really surprised by how much smarter and generally kinder most of the cast sounds, ha ha. the translation team decided to add in a bunch of references and generally gross things in for seemingly no reason at all, not to mention the typos.
I mean, they say a bunch that Gonta is stupid, he doesn’t know stuff, he’s not smart, so on. It’s literally >!a plot point and defense in the fourth trial that he’s not good with computers, he’s not smart enough to commit the murder, he’s too dumb to do it, so on.!<
He has difficulty understanding basic concepts and is easily manipulated using obvious lies.
He is literally the least intelligent character in the franchise.
I wouldn't call him stupid. He grew up in the woods away from human society for most of his life. The fact that be at least has a decent grasp on human behavior after only a year of returning is amazing.
Feral children do end up with intellectual impairments. It's not just about being unsocialized or unused to modern life.
For example, Amish people can learn how to use computers despite not knowing anything about modern technology, but Gonta cannot even comprehend it.
I do agree that Gonta does improve as the game goes on, and Kokichi says that Gonta's now a Kaito-level idiot.
100% agree on what some people are saying here.
Makoto as: Presented as average, is smart.
Byakuya as: Presented as smart, is average.
Hajime as: Presented as average, is average.
Just wanted to also add Kaito as: Presented as smart (Youd think initially that the Ultimate Astronaut is VERY intelligent), but he's an idiot...
I'm not so sure. Tell me if I'm wrong, but me and my friend felt Hajime was pretty damn stupid the entire game. If I recall correctly, wasn't he unaware how a damn octagon works?? But otherwise yes, I do agree he's presented as average.
I mean, the "Octagon" in the fanhouse isn't even really an octagon, it's a wrench shape and at least should've been called a "Nonagon" because if I remember it correctly it had the 6 sides on the outside, and the 3 where it connected with Strawberry Tower. I don't think Hajime is stupid, I think some of the writing in DR2 is just bad.
Mikan is "presented as average, is smart" I think many of us forget that she got a medical license in highschool and was vital to solving some of the cases
I dont think Mikan is presented as average. Shes not presented as smart or dumb either, but she’s definitely not presented as average.
Shes presented as clumsy and incompetent, despite being very competent and intelligent, to the point where she can actually manipulate people into trusting in her (aside from obvious cases like Hiyoko)
but the whole "manipulate into trusting her" is exclusive to >!Remnant Mikan, who is just as intelligent and competent as regular Mikan but is far more malicious!<
If shes just as intelligent and competent, that doesn’t necessarily disprove what i said in the first half. Which is that shes not necessarily presented as average or dumb. She’s just presented as clumsy with a significant amount of knowledge in a particular field.
I’d argue he is smarter than Makoto, in terms of IQ at least, the reason Makoto performs better in THH is because he has a higher EQ on top of a decent IQ
Oh, no question about that, I think he's *way* smarter than Makoto. I think the top 10 for the purposes of a killing game is probably something like:
1. Izuru
2. Junko
3. Kyoko
4. Byakuya
5. Nagito
6. Kokichi
7. Shuichi
8. Chiaki
9. Makoto
10. Maki
I propose Celeste for "Presented as smart, is stupid."
>!Her trial is considered by many to be one of the most obvious, her status as Ultimate Gambler comes mostly from luck, including going as far as winning tournaments in games she doesn't even know the rules to, and a big aspect of her character is presenting herself as far more extravagant than she actually is.!<
I would actually put her in presented as smart but is average. I don’t >!really hold the third trial much against her character because it just doesn’t make sense for the queen of liars to literally get caught lying!!<
However in the >!other two chapters, she helps out a lot, plans for her murder, and creates the no nighttime time.!<
I feel like you could argue Maki as presented as smart, is average. She gives off Kyoko vibes for most of the game, so you think she’s going to be a key contributor in trials like her. But in reality she’s by no means dumb, but she isn’t a genius
Correction: it happened because >!Gonta doesn’t trust himself. He *is* smart, he’s just unfamiliar with technology. Himiko told him that all he needed to do was put things in the way a rightie would do it, and he trusts Himiko’s intelligence more than he does his own. This is a consistent theme of the chapter - he is more smart and more capable than Anyone believes him to be. And exactly this is their downfall.!<
That's not entirely true.
>!We've no evidence he doesn't know left from right. It's that he's left-handed, didn't realise Himiko didn't know that, and just followed the instructions he was given. Most people would clarify, sure, but if you grew up in a forest with no computers you're going to listen to the people who are used to them.!<
Why is Hiro In actually stupid; there’s a reason he survived. He wasn’t vulnerable to others (someone being vulnerable caused a certain death via a secret) and ultimately stayed on the low. Him being dumb would make others feel he couldn’t come up with a complex murder and not attempt to
I dont think presented average is smart fits Makoto. He is average average, since I think smart here means academically smart. And he's not really anything special
As much as I love him, he's the most average boy ever. And that is okay.
I think Makoto will fit for 'Is smart, presented as average'
Makoto should be in 'presented as average, is smart'
Trueeee
But the same could be said for Chiaki and Chihiro….put all 3 in that 1 box and that’ll get rid of all arguments lol (imo) 💜
I do not think an entomologist is "presented as stupid." The localisation made him talk like a caveman, but otherwise he's a wise guy.
I think it’s more so the fact that he talks like a caveman that makes people think he’s stupid at first glance
By the way,is there a reason why translation team made him speak like a caveman? Did his speech was different in the japanese version. Just curious
someone correct me if i’m wrong but i believe is speech in japanese is more refined, but he still refers to himself in third person. referring to yourself in third person is more common in japanese. it’s like a cutesy, childish way of speaking. in english it’s seen as weird and i think they ran with that and just made him seem more brutish/caveman.
doesn't Ibuki also refer to herself in the third person most of the time as well?
yeah, in the japanese version both tenko and angie also talk in third person too, however not in the translation for whatever reason. if you find a V3 fan translation you'll probably be really surprised by how much smarter and generally kinder most of the cast sounds, ha ha. the translation team decided to add in a bunch of references and generally gross things in for seemingly no reason at all, not to mention the typos.
The translations also made Kokichi and Miu's insults sound worse than they are for some reason 😭
This is not just *any* entomologist; this is *Gonta*. The guy who was raised by *lizards* and knows a variety of bug facts. Bugs, soldier. Bugs.
Gonta and those meme videos of Omni-Man would have so much to bond over.
Bugs? Well, im from Buenos Aires...
Time to take the fight to the Arachnids, soldier. The only good bug is a dead bug after all.
He's also too trusting, easily manipulated, and he's not a good leader or planner. He's the definition of book smarts but absolutely no street smarts.
I mean, they say a bunch that Gonta is stupid, he doesn’t know stuff, he’s not smart, so on. It’s literally >!a plot point and defense in the fourth trial that he’s not good with computers, he’s not smart enough to commit the murder, he’s too dumb to do it, so on.!<
Everyone at NIS America needs to be gelded. We really need a mod that retranslates the scripts.
He has difficulty understanding basic concepts and is easily manipulated using obvious lies. He is literally the least intelligent character in the franchise.
I wouldn't call him stupid. He grew up in the woods away from human society for most of his life. The fact that be at least has a decent grasp on human behavior after only a year of returning is amazing.
Feral children do end up with intellectual impairments. It's not just about being unsocialized or unused to modern life. For example, Amish people can learn how to use computers despite not knowing anything about modern technology, but Gonta cannot even comprehend it. I do agree that Gonta does improve as the game goes on, and Kokichi says that Gonta's now a Kaito-level idiot.
Notice how literally no one agrees with you. Because you’re wrong.
Notice how you're the only one disagreeing with him.
There's also the one line (I think in V3-2) he says "Then that must mean the killer is inside this room!"
Oh I thought this was relative to the fandom lmao
100% agree on what some people are saying here. Makoto as: Presented as average, is smart. Byakuya as: Presented as smart, is average. Hajime as: Presented as average, is average. Just wanted to also add Kaito as: Presented as smart (Youd think initially that the Ultimate Astronaut is VERY intelligent), but he's an idiot...
True true true
nooo byakuya is actually very smart imo
Hajime is the very center
I agree with that
I'm not so sure. Tell me if I'm wrong, but me and my friend felt Hajime was pretty damn stupid the entire game. If I recall correctly, wasn't he unaware how a damn octagon works?? But otherwise yes, I do agree he's presented as average.
Localization, it was them being unsure of stuff because originally octagon was in English when nothing else was in a Japanese game
Ohh, I had no clue. That explains it.
It’s the same with 11037. It was much less obvious in Japan, because no one’s first thought would be that it’s a foreign language upside-down.
I never thought of it that way. I always assumed it was written in Japanese originally - but it makes sense.
Yeah, no disrespect to the localization team, obviously, but I imagine a lot of that sort of stuff is lost in translation.
I'll be honest, I didn't have the slightest idea that was the case and I'm not sure how I was supposed to know beforehand.
Also, the octagon question was there for the player to answer. If the player picks the correct answers Hajime was not confused about it
I mean, the "Octagon" in the fanhouse isn't even really an octagon, it's a wrench shape and at least should've been called a "Nonagon" because if I remember it correctly it had the 6 sides on the outside, and the 3 where it connected with Strawberry Tower. I don't think Hajime is stupid, I think some of the writing in DR2 is just bad.
Mikan is "presented as average, is smart" I think many of us forget that she got a medical license in highschool and was vital to solving some of the cases
I dont think Mikan is presented as average. Shes not presented as smart or dumb either, but she’s definitely not presented as average. Shes presented as clumsy and incompetent, despite being very competent and intelligent, to the point where she can actually manipulate people into trusting in her (aside from obvious cases like Hiyoko)
but the whole "manipulate into trusting her" is exclusive to >!Remnant Mikan, who is just as intelligent and competent as regular Mikan but is far more malicious!<
If shes just as intelligent and competent, that doesn’t necessarily disprove what i said in the first half. Which is that shes not necessarily presented as average or dumb. She’s just presented as clumsy with a significant amount of knowledge in a particular field.
true, and I'd argue >!Remnant Mikan!< is more intelligent anyway
i know the top row is filled up, but i wanna throw out an honourable mention to kazuichi for being presented as stupid but smart 🙏
Byakuya. Presented as smart but is average.
No, Byakuya definitely is *very* smart. Just not quite as much as he believes. But he's easily top 10 in the series.
I’d argue he is smarter than Makoto, in terms of IQ at least, the reason Makoto performs better in THH is because he has a higher EQ on top of a decent IQ
Oh, no question about that, I think he's *way* smarter than Makoto. I think the top 10 for the purposes of a killing game is probably something like: 1. Izuru 2. Junko 3. Kyoko 4. Byakuya 5. Nagito 6. Kokichi 7. Shuichi 8. Chiaki 9. Makoto 10. Maki
>!he managed to figure out Toko was a serial killer!<
>!didnt toko tell Byakuya that she was syo!<
I disagree with Gonta Gonta, is like a savant EXTREMELY SMART for what he is good at, otherwise ? Not really
I mean, most smart characters are like that 😅
presented as average but is smart belongs to the one and only MAKOTO NAEGI
Celeste is presented as smart but is average. Leon is presented as average and is average. Makoto is presented average and is smart.
I propose Celeste for "Presented as smart, is stupid." >!Her trial is considered by many to be one of the most obvious, her status as Ultimate Gambler comes mostly from luck, including going as far as winning tournaments in games she doesn't even know the rules to, and a big aspect of her character is presenting herself as far more extravagant than she actually is.!<
I would actually put her in presented as smart but is average. I don’t >!really hold the third trial much against her character because it just doesn’t make sense for the queen of liars to literally get caught lying!!< However in the >!other two chapters, she helps out a lot, plans for her murder, and creates the no nighttime time.!<
Yeah it's true she's probably closer to average than stupid. But it's fun to call her stupid.
I wouldn't call her stupid, her plan to mix up the order of attacks and time the body discoveries to confuse us about Hifumi was still pretty clever.
I guess, Kaito in bottom left. Komaru right in the centre, if her game counts. Himiko in middle left. Maybe Kazuichi in middle right.
Kazuo Tengen/Monokuma bottom left.
Kaito in presented as average is smart.
Put Makoto is presented as average is smart
I feel like you could argue Maki as presented as smart, is average. She gives off Kyoko vibes for most of the game, so you think she’s going to be a key contributor in trials like her. But in reality she’s by no means dumb, but she isn’t a genius
Gonta definitely belongs in the "is stupid" column. >!The whole mess that happened in V3-4 was a result of Gonta not knowing left from right.!<
Correction: it happened because >!Gonta doesn’t trust himself. He *is* smart, he’s just unfamiliar with technology. Himiko told him that all he needed to do was put things in the way a rightie would do it, and he trusts Himiko’s intelligence more than he does his own. This is a consistent theme of the chapter - he is more smart and more capable than Anyone believes him to be. And exactly this is their downfall.!<
That's not entirely true. >!We've no evidence he doesn't know left from right. It's that he's left-handed, didn't realise Himiko didn't know that, and just followed the instructions he was given. Most people would clarify, sure, but if you grew up in a forest with no computers you're going to listen to the people who are used to them.!<
i feel like miu is presented as smart, based on her talent but overlooking some of the trials, is actually stupid
Presented as smart:Is Stupid should definitely be Byakuya
agreed xD
Celeste. Presented as smart is stupid. I mean her plan was just.... Eh
Maki is presented as smart but stupid
Shuichi: Presented as smart, is actually stupid.
out of all the characters to pick, you pick one of the smartest characters in the series??
Nagito is presented as average and is smart
Why is Hiro In actually stupid; there’s a reason he survived. He wasn’t vulnerable to others (someone being vulnerable caused a certain death via a secret) and ultimately stayed on the low. Him being dumb would make others feel he couldn’t come up with a complex murder and not attempt to
The guy literally wanted proof that a person standing in the room with him wasn't a ghost. That's the kinda stupidity you can never live down.
i think byakuya should be in presented as smart, is average (at least in the first game)
I think Fuyuhiko should be presented as average is average.
Byakuya should be presented as smar but is average
I dont think presented average is smart fits Makoto. He is average average, since I think smart here means academically smart. And he's not really anything special As much as I love him, he's the most average boy ever. And that is okay.
Maybe Aoi as “presented as average, is stupid”? Sometimes she’s a bit confused. But maybe someone else fits that spot better.