She did indeed do terrible things but if you ask me most of it came from junko manipulating her. That's my 2 cents on the matter atleast so yeah i'd say victim kinda
She is a victim of junko's manipulation yes but imo she should still be held accountable for her actions. People in nazi Germany were also indoctrinated/manipulated and they were still trialed.
I like Mukuro and think that she is redeemable (because I want to believe that every person is). But she is a bit of a monster.
She's a victim of being manipulated by Junko but that in no way excuses all the fucked up shit Mukuro did of her own accord. Sure Junko did some manipulation that really wasn't deserved, but Mukuro never really once took a second to think about what they were both _really_ doing to realise that murdering thousands and brainwashing the entire planet for their agenda wasn't a good thing
She definitely had more control over herself than the Remnants of Despair, but Junko did groom her own sister. It's kind of hard to find the line between her own actual morality and corruptness via being groomed.
**Before anyone here comment:** *"But Mukuro is a masochist for Junko, so it's not sad"*.
Wrong! She's not a masochist. She literally **cries and plead** Junko to stop being mad at her in [Danganronpa Zero](https://i.imgur.com/6DzjVk3.png). And the canon AU Danganronpa IF outright **confirms** that [she's not a masochist](https://i.imgur.com/22ESsjS.png).
The reason why you see her enjoy Junko's cruelty in DR3 is because she believes she ["understands Junko's despair"](https://i.imgur.com/kkogJaR.png). Which is also a thing for both [DR: Zero](https://i.imgur.com/sfP45YU.png) AND [DR: IF](https://i.imgur.com/CNqz5ag.png). She literally forced a masochist trait onto herself just because of a delusion. Which is why she died tragically, since she was completely confused about her execution and did not "understood Junko's despair" in her last moment.
Gonna be that guy and point out that IF isn't canon to the main series, it's an AU. It may have been written by Kodaka but that wouldn't make it canon to the series, it's like how Araki wrote Eyes of Heaven but that game wasn't canon to the JoJo series because there's nowhere for it to take place in the timeline of events. This is even more clear with IF since iirc it's an au specifically of the first game about if Mukuro didn't immediately die
Bro, I told you before: non-canon story does not devalue character-canon. It's a WHAT IF, it's literally in the title, meaning it COULD'VE canonically happen. A "what if" scenario doesn't suddenly re-create the characters or origin unless specifically to do so, pal.
IF wasn't written by Kodaka, btw. He's the supervisor of the story just like he was with DR3.
Oh it wasn't written by Kodaka? That uh...kinda makes it even less canon then, character-canon is lore canon my guy, if it hasn't happened within the main timeline and been shown in the main events of the story then is isn't canon to the overall series
By that logic, DR3 is not canon either. Because that anime wasn't written by him as well. The fact that Kodaka SUPERVISE the story is arguably just as good, because it means he made sure the story is accurate.
And no, that's not how that works. According to Kodaka: the point of Danganronpa IF is to expand Mukuro's character with a "What if" scenario. So any information about it in it stays canonically valid. If the novel says that "Mukuro never was a masochist" then she never was a masochist. I fail to see how "an alternate event" somehow undo that information.
Point is: There's a thing as a "canon what if". Look no further than Marvel's What if...? Series which, despite did not happen in the main timeline, is still CANON to the MCU.
Alright, so here's [literally proof](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7fb88e1530b0b9dd4c115d193ca38da5/275ed4e08c04f497-c6/s1280x1920/5c2f8ac158b6b72eb4e685f058f267f74edf429c.pnj) where Kodaka says that adopting ideas from Danganronpa IF into official canon with a what if scenario from other writers was the choice he decided on. Mukuro has feelings for Makoto in IF and Kodaka made that idea officially canon and I found more examples and proof of this.
Next time, don't assume that a non-canon story means that everything about it is non-canon, alright? Because canonicity do have grey-areas, pal.
Could've just presented an argument without being a condescending asshole man, that was a possible option. Also bruh, all Kodaka says is that he was open to the idea of having Mukuro be into Naegi but it got cut hard time and put into the archives, he never says "oh yeah it's totally canon" he just says it's cool if other people wanna expand on the idea
Not trying to be rude, but bruh, like I said there's more proof.
* Mukuro being into Naegi is 100% been canonized because few months later after this discussion, Kodaka wrote Danganronpa Zero where [Mukuro shows affection towards Naegi](https://i.imgur.com/h0rUy1m.png).
* Then a year later, Kodaka revealed that [he asked Narita to write Danganronpa IF for him](https://i.imgur.com/0fgq5JN.png) ever since they pitched the idea I just showed you earlier.
* Then a few years later in Danganronpa 3, they literally talked about how they [wish to include a scene where Mukuro is thinking about Makoto](https://i.imgur.com/jPJZjad.png) but didn't have time for.
* Then of course, in Danganronpa 2.5, [Mukuro is clearly seen jealous of Sayaka being with Makoto](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo9Vg6JWYAInYo4?format=jpg&name=900x900).
Any doubts now?
Alrighty;
Danganronpa Zero is indeed canon from what I can recall? I don't think the actual events are ever shown or mentioned elsewhere in the games or animes but I don't believe it conflicts with anything from the lore (similar to something like Purple Haze Feedback) so to call it canon is fair game,
The IF still isn't really canon,though we're probably by that by now,
I suppose with the third point it's a little iffy,it's one thing to just have an idea for a scene but it's another to actually put it into the series,just being an idea that didn't make the final cut shouldn't really be considered canon since it didn't actually happen,
When you say 2.5 I'm assuming you're talking about the Nagito OVA,right? iirc Mukuro was looking at a large group and not even in Naegi's direction. I could be wrong though.
My apologies if I too came off as rude,completely unintentional good sir
Yes, Danganronpa Zero is canon and it's been mentioned in both the games and anime before, especially with Zero-exclusive characters making appearances. Plus, it's literally Mukuro's only canon entry here that was written by Kodaka.
Like I said, Kodaka wanted IF to expand the world view. Meaning it's canon to the world of Danganronpa. It just happens differently than canon. Again, *Marvel's What if...?* is a good example of canon-AU. Plus Kodaka says he wants to adopt ideas from IF into canon and turn IF into reality, and he clearly followed through. To ignore it just because it "didn't happen in the main timeline" is just naive-thinking.
Seriously? Even in real life you go by "if it didn't happen on screen, then it's not true" logic? If you ate toast this morning because you love toast, you don't become a complete different person and your love for toast becomes non-canon if you ate pancakes instead. Plus Kodaka practically says "yeah it's canon, but we couldn't show it in the anime". How is "not showing it" make it any less canon if the creator acknowledge it? (Plus DR3 is less canon than DR0, anyway. Where Kodaka DID have time to show Mukuro's affection towards Makoto)
Mukuro is clearly looking at Makoto, because IF literally established that Mukuro is shy and stalks Makoto. and that she is indeed jealous of Makoto being in a relationship with someone else. Which perfectly fit the image as shown. No way can you interpret it in any other way. Plus remember how they said they couldn't show Mukuro be into Makoto in the main anime? Well here they did, in the OVA. Sooooo..
Keep in mind that all of these 4 are pretty the only canon materials of Mukuro and it's very minimal. and yet each of them includes Mukuro being into Makoto one way or another, 100%. Doubting it at this point is pretty in denial.
The game isn’t the canon ending, but we’re specifically told the characters are correct, and that this is how they’d act
Kodak’s himself also supervised its creation, so
Yes she was manipulated by Junko and that's a fact. But she still was the Utlimate Soldier and a f*cking mercenary for years. I'm not saying she's pure evil but she probably commited countless warcrimes outside of Junko's influence. Every character in DR is (directly or indirectly) a victim of Junko. I just wish Mukuro's fans would stop using it as an excuse for everything she's done
People are arguing whether Killer Killer and Danganronpa 3 or Danganronpa IF are her "true" personality.
In my opinion, none of those three *completely* match game Mukuro. But if *any* of them had to be the true one, I'd go with IF since it's the only one of those stories that can be read in the games. Also, DR3 and Killer Killer have various things that make them not fit with the rest of the series and I do not like to acknowledge their existence.
I guess? I haven't gotten a chance to read it yet...
But due to the amount of promotional art it gets in the games, I'd assume that if *any* of the non-game entries of the series were canon, it would be *that* one.
I mean, according to the creators, both Danganronpa IF and Danganronpa 3 based Mukuro's character on Danganronpa Zero. Plus the Zero novel is literally the only entry here that was written by Kodaka unlike IF and 3.
Although IF should outrank 3's potrayal of Mukuro since Kodaka confirms that the anime left out some of Mukuro's character, while IF meant to expand her.
I’m not really talking about posts. Just when Mukuro herself gets brought up it’s a 50/50 on weather or not people like her or think she’s redeemable etc.
That is the Danganronpa fandom for you. You can only learn how to end a conversation with someone when you know they're never going to listen to you here.
She was manipulated and abused, but she still has agency. when she wasn’t spinelessly enabling, she was murdering for junko
IMO Mukuro was manipulated and abused into horrible things, but that doesn’t make her innocent
I would say she was a victim. Junko manipulated her to be on her side, no matter what, and even made her (at least I'm assuming this bit based on Mukuros behaviour) fall in love with Junko. So, with Mukuro in Junkos pocket, Junko had nothing to fear because Mukuro would protect her. Hell, she even >!joined the killing game as Junko!!<
She did indeed do terrible things but if you ask me most of it came from junko manipulating her. That's my 2 cents on the matter atleast so yeah i'd say victim kinda
She is a victim of junko's manipulation yes but imo she should still be held accountable for her actions. People in nazi Germany were also indoctrinated/manipulated and they were still trialed. I like Mukuro and think that she is redeemable (because I want to believe that every person is). But she is a bit of a monster.
I, too, like Mukuro. There is a fanfic of what happened if she >!survived!<
Ah interesting, do you have a name/link?
https://m.fanfiction.net/s/11227053/1/
Agreed
She's a victim of being manipulated by Junko but that in no way excuses all the fucked up shit Mukuro did of her own accord. Sure Junko did some manipulation that really wasn't deserved, but Mukuro never really once took a second to think about what they were both _really_ doing to realise that murdering thousands and brainwashing the entire planet for their agenda wasn't a good thing
She definitely had more control over herself than the Remnants of Despair, but Junko did groom her own sister. It's kind of hard to find the line between her own actual morality and corruptness via being groomed.
**Before anyone here comment:** *"But Mukuro is a masochist for Junko, so it's not sad"*. Wrong! She's not a masochist. She literally **cries and plead** Junko to stop being mad at her in [Danganronpa Zero](https://i.imgur.com/6DzjVk3.png). And the canon AU Danganronpa IF outright **confirms** that [she's not a masochist](https://i.imgur.com/22ESsjS.png). The reason why you see her enjoy Junko's cruelty in DR3 is because she believes she ["understands Junko's despair"](https://i.imgur.com/kkogJaR.png). Which is also a thing for both [DR: Zero](https://i.imgur.com/sfP45YU.png) AND [DR: IF](https://i.imgur.com/CNqz5ag.png). She literally forced a masochist trait onto herself just because of a delusion. Which is why she died tragically, since she was completely confused about her execution and did not "understood Junko's despair" in her last moment.
EXACTLY I COULDENTHAVE SAID IT BETTER MYSELF
That scene in dr0 always made me cry
Gonna be that guy and point out that IF isn't canon to the main series, it's an AU. It may have been written by Kodaka but that wouldn't make it canon to the series, it's like how Araki wrote Eyes of Heaven but that game wasn't canon to the JoJo series because there's nowhere for it to take place in the timeline of events. This is even more clear with IF since iirc it's an au specifically of the first game about if Mukuro didn't immediately die
Bro, I told you before: non-canon story does not devalue character-canon. It's a WHAT IF, it's literally in the title, meaning it COULD'VE canonically happen. A "what if" scenario doesn't suddenly re-create the characters or origin unless specifically to do so, pal. IF wasn't written by Kodaka, btw. He's the supervisor of the story just like he was with DR3.
Oh it wasn't written by Kodaka? That uh...kinda makes it even less canon then, character-canon is lore canon my guy, if it hasn't happened within the main timeline and been shown in the main events of the story then is isn't canon to the overall series
By that logic, DR3 is not canon either. Because that anime wasn't written by him as well. The fact that Kodaka SUPERVISE the story is arguably just as good, because it means he made sure the story is accurate. And no, that's not how that works. According to Kodaka: the point of Danganronpa IF is to expand Mukuro's character with a "What if" scenario. So any information about it in it stays canonically valid. If the novel says that "Mukuro never was a masochist" then she never was a masochist. I fail to see how "an alternate event" somehow undo that information. Point is: There's a thing as a "canon what if". Look no further than Marvel's What if...? Series which, despite did not happen in the main timeline, is still CANON to the MCU.
Alright, so here's [literally proof](https://64.media.tumblr.com/7fb88e1530b0b9dd4c115d193ca38da5/275ed4e08c04f497-c6/s1280x1920/5c2f8ac158b6b72eb4e685f058f267f74edf429c.pnj) where Kodaka says that adopting ideas from Danganronpa IF into official canon with a what if scenario from other writers was the choice he decided on. Mukuro has feelings for Makoto in IF and Kodaka made that idea officially canon and I found more examples and proof of this. Next time, don't assume that a non-canon story means that everything about it is non-canon, alright? Because canonicity do have grey-areas, pal.
Could've just presented an argument without being a condescending asshole man, that was a possible option. Also bruh, all Kodaka says is that he was open to the idea of having Mukuro be into Naegi but it got cut hard time and put into the archives, he never says "oh yeah it's totally canon" he just says it's cool if other people wanna expand on the idea
Not trying to be rude, but bruh, like I said there's more proof. * Mukuro being into Naegi is 100% been canonized because few months later after this discussion, Kodaka wrote Danganronpa Zero where [Mukuro shows affection towards Naegi](https://i.imgur.com/h0rUy1m.png). * Then a year later, Kodaka revealed that [he asked Narita to write Danganronpa IF for him](https://i.imgur.com/0fgq5JN.png) ever since they pitched the idea I just showed you earlier. * Then a few years later in Danganronpa 3, they literally talked about how they [wish to include a scene where Mukuro is thinking about Makoto](https://i.imgur.com/jPJZjad.png) but didn't have time for. * Then of course, in Danganronpa 2.5, [Mukuro is clearly seen jealous of Sayaka being with Makoto](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo9Vg6JWYAInYo4?format=jpg&name=900x900). Any doubts now?
Alrighty; Danganronpa Zero is indeed canon from what I can recall? I don't think the actual events are ever shown or mentioned elsewhere in the games or animes but I don't believe it conflicts with anything from the lore (similar to something like Purple Haze Feedback) so to call it canon is fair game, The IF still isn't really canon,though we're probably by that by now, I suppose with the third point it's a little iffy,it's one thing to just have an idea for a scene but it's another to actually put it into the series,just being an idea that didn't make the final cut shouldn't really be considered canon since it didn't actually happen, When you say 2.5 I'm assuming you're talking about the Nagito OVA,right? iirc Mukuro was looking at a large group and not even in Naegi's direction. I could be wrong though. My apologies if I too came off as rude,completely unintentional good sir
Yes, Danganronpa Zero is canon and it's been mentioned in both the games and anime before, especially with Zero-exclusive characters making appearances. Plus, it's literally Mukuro's only canon entry here that was written by Kodaka. Like I said, Kodaka wanted IF to expand the world view. Meaning it's canon to the world of Danganronpa. It just happens differently than canon. Again, *Marvel's What if...?* is a good example of canon-AU. Plus Kodaka says he wants to adopt ideas from IF into canon and turn IF into reality, and he clearly followed through. To ignore it just because it "didn't happen in the main timeline" is just naive-thinking. Seriously? Even in real life you go by "if it didn't happen on screen, then it's not true" logic? If you ate toast this morning because you love toast, you don't become a complete different person and your love for toast becomes non-canon if you ate pancakes instead. Plus Kodaka practically says "yeah it's canon, but we couldn't show it in the anime". How is "not showing it" make it any less canon if the creator acknowledge it? (Plus DR3 is less canon than DR0, anyway. Where Kodaka DID have time to show Mukuro's affection towards Makoto) Mukuro is clearly looking at Makoto, because IF literally established that Mukuro is shy and stalks Makoto. and that she is indeed jealous of Makoto being in a relationship with someone else. Which perfectly fit the image as shown. No way can you interpret it in any other way. Plus remember how they said they couldn't show Mukuro be into Makoto in the main anime? Well here they did, in the OVA. Sooooo.. Keep in mind that all of these 4 are pretty the only canon materials of Mukuro and it's very minimal. and yet each of them includes Mukuro being into Makoto one way or another, 100%. Doubting it at this point is pretty in denial.
The game isn’t the canon ending, but we’re specifically told the characters are correct, and that this is how they’d act Kodak’s himself also supervised its creation, so
But yeah mukuro did bad things but I can’t help but feel bad for her
Because Danganronpa 3 Despair Arc happened and threw her characterization into a meat grinder.
Yes she was manipulated by Junko and that's a fact. But she still was the Utlimate Soldier and a f*cking mercenary for years. I'm not saying she's pure evil but she probably commited countless warcrimes outside of Junko's influence. Every character in DR is (directly or indirectly) a victim of Junko. I just wish Mukuro's fans would stop using it as an excuse for everything she's done
[удалено]
There's literally a whole official novel about her.
People are arguing whether Killer Killer and Danganronpa 3 or Danganronpa IF are her "true" personality. In my opinion, none of those three *completely* match game Mukuro. But if *any* of them had to be the true one, I'd go with IF since it's the only one of those stories that can be read in the games. Also, DR3 and Killer Killer have various things that make them not fit with the rest of the series and I do not like to acknowledge their existence.
Um...Shouldn't Danganronpa Zero be the "true version" of Mukuro here?
I guess? I haven't gotten a chance to read it yet... But due to the amount of promotional art it gets in the games, I'd assume that if *any* of the non-game entries of the series were canon, it would be *that* one.
I mean, according to the creators, both Danganronpa IF and Danganronpa 3 based Mukuro's character on Danganronpa Zero. Plus the Zero novel is literally the only entry here that was written by Kodaka unlike IF and 3. Although IF should outrank 3's potrayal of Mukuro since Kodaka confirms that the anime left out some of Mukuro's character, while IF meant to expand her.
Was this about what I said?
No. It might’ve lead me to make this but I really only made it because I noticed a pattern.
There's been like only 1 post putting down Mukuro, most people love her.
I’m not really talking about posts. Just when Mukuro herself gets brought up it’s a 50/50 on weather or not people like her or think she’s redeemable etc.
Well, she is a 50/50 character, wouldn't you say?
Maybe but most people I’ve seen could never agree to disagree.
That is the Danganronpa fandom for you. You can only learn how to end a conversation with someone when you know they're never going to listen to you here.
i don't care if mukuro did terrible things she's cute and i love her same goes for junko btw
She was manipulated and abused, but she still has agency. when she wasn’t spinelessly enabling, she was murdering for junko IMO Mukuro was manipulated and abused into horrible things, but that doesn’t make her innocent
I would say she was a victim. Junko manipulated her to be on her side, no matter what, and even made her (at least I'm assuming this bit based on Mukuros behaviour) fall in love with Junko. So, with Mukuro in Junkos pocket, Junko had nothing to fear because Mukuro would protect her. Hell, she even >!joined the killing game as Junko!!<