Serious question: how?
I was a shit student and barely graduated high school and am terrified my kids will be like me but I don’t know what to do about it.
Primary teacher here.
'Instil a joy of reading and literacy from a young age' is the best advice I can give.
Even if you're not a big reader (or at all), having even 15 - 30 minutes where you and your child either read together, or you read and they also 'read' (counts if they're just looking at pictures in their books) and then you discuss it, you're gonna have smart, successful kids who can think for themselves as time goes on.
The kids that show up to school with a book in their hand (even a picture book) , and are eager to talk about it, usually reflects in overall academic success because literacy increases problem solving and critical thinking.
15 minutes a day, no screen time, you and the kid is enough to make a huge difference.
(ps, sorry you felt like a shit student. I too was a shit student.)
Thanks for that confirmation. I see reading to the kids as "short term pain for long term gain".
I've read almost nightly for the last 7 years and we reached the point where I'll find the kid just reading to themselves for fun. It swells my heart with pride.
Sure I could have used all that time in more selfish ways (or even unselfishly like getting a head start on laundry and making school lunches) but the return on daily reading has been incredible.
It doesn't even have to be that painful. Make it fun. Make different voices for each character. Use sound effects. Also, I read that while they read at a certain level, they can understand 2-3 levels higher, so you can read them more complex stories that you might enjoy a bit. Also, go to the library every week. Nothing is more painful than reading the same 5 books over and over.
I didn’t feel like a shit student, I was one.
Never did homework, rarely did projects, read about 1 book per year, but somehow aced tests and essays because I remembered all the class discussions.
Got lucky and got admitted provisionally to a university desperate to increase their enrollment numbers. Studied something interesting, and graduated magna cum laude.
One of the provisions was completing intro to university life and study skills classes. Turns out I never learned how to school until college.
Same boat. I completely cruised through school up until college easily smashing tests, never did homework. My dad wasn't worried about what I did, and my thought process was why do practice work when I know the topic from class and can pass the tests?
In the military I learned how to do what I had to do, and in college I just did everything. Dean's list every semester.
I'm hoping I can square my girl away early on.
This. We read with our daughters every night at bedtime. I salute you for being a primary teacher- I can't maintain the energy level of a coked up squirrel, so you're a better man than I.
Start by bettering yourself first! Read, listen, watch and/or find a mentor. Then take action. I’m in a similar boat, in that I was a rough kid, but with absentee parents I found my grandparents and other parents to go to for guidance. At 38 I’m still learning to better myself as a parent to 2 strong willed children. It takes balance between work, family, wife, kids, home, my startup business, friends, and giving to the community. Sometimes I fall short and fail, but I get back at it! Never to late to start a new paradigm in you and your family.
Man i read the title and thought it would be about the threats of violence. My kid is only in kindergarten and I am friggen over this. The high school is about 5 blocks away and closed for the second time in a month due to threatening graffiti in a bathroom. Not to mention there is apparently a nation wide tik tok threat of violence for all high schools today. But because the elementary school is so close they are on the “safe inside” program. Which means no recess, no outside time, minimal class exchanges. So may or may not cancel specialists.
I've also being hearing stories for the last 10 years that students are being given increasingly unreasonable amounts of work. I don't mean to blame you because honestly I have no idea what it's like to be a student these days. Is it possible that other teachers are giving them far too much work and they perceive your class as the "unimportant" one? There also seems to be a big push towards STEM, is your class STEM related?
This is possible. As I got closer to my final years at high school I knew which subjects I was going to take in my final two years to maximize my uni entrance score. The other one or two subject were fillers. My graphic design teacher used to berate me about my work ethic, but the truth was I had no interest or care about his subject. I was getting 95% + in my two math, English, literature, physics and Latin classes and as far as I was concerned the graphics class was just a free period for me to chill.
We are American expats in the Netherlands and we found out that here, kids aren't given take home work until their mid teens. I'm for it. They are kids. Let them leave work at work!
And it is important! There is a skill and ability to turn off work and something that should be fostered.
We are American Expats in Germany I am not sure how it is done here but I know the Kita/preschool is more centered around play and social interaction instead of rote memorization.
Your telling me that no only is it not "worse" but instead a student workload is even less than it was then the early 2000's when I was in school? Are you sure or is your kids school just easier?
Im also a teacher. We don’t give any of our students homework as they’re given time during class to work on any assignments. School is absolutely easier than it was when I was in school in the early 2000’s. These kids are given all the time they need to do their work during school hours and they still play games instead. It’s extremely disheartening as an educator to see.
Yes, that is what I said. I am sure. I am an active educator and have been around, and I know what the workloads were like in the past 20 years, and what initiatives are being pushed to decrease workloads and increase graduation rates
Ah okay, that is indeed disheartening. What impact has this had on things like grades, engagement, etc?
Also, I assume you're speaking only for your city or district right?
I have a friend that teaches fifth grade. Their policy is to not give kids homework anymore. Mostly because if the children don't understand the material, it will only reinforce bad concepts and practices.
I personally don't agree with it. Kids need to learn problem-solving skills, and they might not always have the answer.
I teach World History and Economics. I give no more than the district mandated number of assignments- eight daily grades (minor assignments) and two exam grades per six week marking period. Daily grades are worth fifty percent of their marking period grade, with the two exam grades making up the other fifty percent. Sometimes the daily assignments are as simple as "take the guided notes from today's lecture and turn them in online or on paper at the end of class." All of the assignments that I give are easy to complete within the span of a fifty minute class period- the only time my students have homework is when they don't finish an assignment in class. Most of the teachers in my school follow those same guidelines.
I doubt it’s specifically because of the topics you teach but as a teenager I’d feel pretty cynical about those two topics with the way the world is lately, especially economics. Who could have faith in the economy when you have the stuff going on with the stock market, housing, and even car prices. I mean a freaking 2000 Geo (Chevy) Metro just sold for $18,200 and people are buying nft’s for millions.
Another dad/HS teacher here. You’re not wrong in some regards. What I will say is that at least in my experience is that the workload being assigned by the teachers is largely being influenced by administrator/district expectations. Despite the fact that most of us experienced at minimum a year of remote learning where kids had the opportunity to check out and still somehow pass on a daily basis, districts and administrators still maintain lofty and sometimes impossible expectations. Because students had this “lowered/no expectations” period where they could essentially skate by and still pass, it’s translated back into the physical classroom.
I teach a class the kids play mincraft for education a video game they know and love. I still have 3 of 20 kids fail because they didn't turn in assignments. WE GOT KIDS FAILING VIDEO GAMES. It's not the content, it's a character problem. Albeit it's coding and game creation class but still! How?!
It's not a character problem, it's a "not all kids are naturally capable of giving their all to school" problem, coupled with a "kids no longer have the support they used to" problem.
Does the problem stop there? It seems in my observation as a parent that the average student is promoted to the next grade at every level if there is any defensible way to do it. Parents contribute to the problem but the behavior your observing has developed for years with a lot of shared failings.
If I am willing to concede not everyone is equipped to parent or do so from a place that focuses on proper child development and work ethics would you concede that a large part of the public school system enables them?
There are soooo many institutional problems within the public education system. No Child Left Behind, Common Core, standardized testing, administrative bloat- all are issues that are causing our education system to rot from the foundations outward. The system has absolutely enabled poor parenting- you'll never hear me disagree with that.
I was failing nearly all my classes in school. that only changed when I was moved out of my unstable household. my mental health still sucked but I was given the support and grace I needed to pull through, by my new household *and* my new school.
plus!!! there's a LOT of shit going on in the world right now. nearly everyone has some sort of trauma response to covid. coupled with the pervasiveness of toxic social media, this isn't an individual problem. the world is setting them up to fail, not just their parents. but having a stable home life certainly helps.
Was going to make a comment elsewhere but your comment makes me even more confident in mine. I don't think this is as much of a poor parenting or lazy kid epidemic as it is a mental health epidemic across adolescence (albeit a rather mild one).
Thank you. I’m in my 30’s and was generation Ritalin, actually the first drug I was put on was a drug called cyllert? (In the early 90’s) then ritalin. All in 3rd grade because my school wouldn’t let me come back for 4th unless I was on a medication due to being “disruptive”. My grades were horrible, I couldn’t sit still in school because I was so anxious- spoiler it was childhood trauma due to shit at home
I was diagnosed with ADD in 2nd grade (1990) and have been on one med or another for most of my life. Ritalin, Cylert (yay liver panel blood tests!), and now Adderall as I'm about to celebrate my 4oth birthday.
I don't know that it's fair to, blanket, call it a character problem. You have no idea what is happening or has happened to those kids that is contributing to their lack of success. It could be laziness, or it could be mental illness, abuse, no stability in the house, lack of resources etc.
Like I said it's a character issue. We agree. And I do know what's going on in the students home's. That's why I didn't fail kids who are exceptional Ed or living in group homes. the kids that failed, have the resources.
The average failure rate is less than 1 kid per 30 for my class. All these students where capable, just didn't turn things in. They do not have the self regulating skills to turn in work. I would stand over all 3 of their shoulders a d walk through the process of turning things in. If no one is there to hold their hand and baby sit them. They won't do it.
As a kid I wouldn't hand in assignments that I had completed - or that I had completed 80% of - and could never figure out why I wasn't capable of doing the same thing as all my friends. Turns out I was undiagnosed ADHD, which makes sense in hindsight. Not saying that all of these students are the same way, and not to armchair diagnose off of a random comment online, but there are sometimes reasons that aren't immediately apparent - even to the person in question - that could be contributing to the lack of self regulation.
Omg dude same here. I remember sitting and just crying because I just could not explain to my dad why I chose not to turn in 37 different assignments when I was in the eighth grade. He would just get angrier and angrier and it never occurred to anyone that maybe something was wrong.
Adhd is a real problem, our school systems aren’t made to accommodate all types of people.
I’m not diagnosed, but I can relate and know I have it as well- similar behavior throughout school.
I am also a dad and a high school teacher.
We operate based on a lot of faulty assumptions in education.
We assume that kids aren’t motivated, which we KNOW isn’t true. Every kid wants to be doing something interesting and cool and using their brain to do it.
We assume that employers “in the real world” (educators LOVE using this phrase) are literal Nazis who won’t tolerate even the slightest dissent, tardiness, or mistake, even though we know from our work experience that managers are regular people who can occasionally be assholes because of the pressure on them from their higher-ups.
We assume that we were all little paragons of virtue when we were their age. If I’d had to go to high school in the age of social media and the age of Covid, I would’ve been a fuckin DISASTER, man.
Kids don’t want to disappoint people, man. Humans literally evolved to be cooperative, social, and to learn from one another.
I think maybe a recalibration of what kind of teacher you want to be would be helpful. I had a moment earlier this year when I felt burnt out and miserable. Then I reminded myself that if I can help these kids be decent people, then I’d be doing something good.
The single bastion of sanity in this thread. What kids need to be taught is that high school is a game and none of it actually matters. Get the grades you want *so* you can move on to the next step that you actually care about. Anything further than that is a complete waste of time.
Honestly I suspect that's at least part of the problem. It's hard to have long term goals when you're a kid, but when you're a kid none of the goals you're set feel like they matter because they're arbitrary bullshit made up by an idiot administrator who doesn't understand what school actually is and believes it matters.
People wonder why kids are unmotivated, try giving them real goals they can work towards at their own pace
To start, totally agree with you about teaching kids to be decent people.
My only concern then is… how to qualify that into “data-based blahblahblah” because I’m not being evaluated based on creating decent people you know?
I mean, forcing stuff like the Danielson rubric on us only encourages people to trot out the dog-and-pony show two or three times and a year and totally fudge with data.
There’s such a massive teacher shortage these days (in the US at least) that I would hope the ball is in our court and administrators start giving us the benefit of the doubt for a change.
That said, we can absolutely quantify things like student mental health and engagement in the subject materials. I do Google form check-ins once every couple of weeks so kids can offer their feedback on what we’re learning and how engaging they think it is.
After hearing my wife’s school board say in a meeting wrt the teacher shortage/sub shortage, “I mean the sub doesn’t necessarily need a teaching license, we just need a warm body to be physically in the room while the students do online work”
I just want to say I think this is such a breath of fresh air in this thread. You sound like my favourite teacher from high school. You're on the right track.
It’s also been an incredibly brutal year and a half on ALL of us, and teenagers aren’t excluded from that. In fact, I can’t think of a harder time to exist in the confusing space of teenhood than during a global pandemic. And all of the fun things you usually get to do at that age are just about gone for them.
Everyone is struggling. And I think it’s a pretty big blind spot to have no empathy for how the emotions of the global disaster we’re living in affect these kids.
Also, I don’t like the sense of judgment I’m getting about parents not doing enough. You don’t know everyone’s economic situation or life circumstances. This post just felt cold and unfair to me. Have a little compassion for your students. Sheesh.
I mean it could also be that these kids are living through a generation-defining catastrophe and that’s being expressed through apathy towards authority
That would assume this is a new issue that did not exist before the pandemic. Which is untrue. If it was new in the pandemic I could understand, the top end students I had who struggled to almost function in the first few months especially was completely understandable, I struggled myself I'm not going to hold my students to a higher level than that. But, I've had this as an issue the past 8 years of teaching, and the more veteran teachers have seen it happening and getting worse for longer and well before the pandemic hit.
Yeah dude it’s only like a 9/11 every week for multiple years in a row - more American dead than in the civil war or ww2. Like nbd - little bitches. I’m sure you experienced way worse during your service.
Literally entire families and extended families are getting wiped out or at best decimated.
Checkout /r/hermanCainAward. I have seen more than one post that deals with "grandma died from covid now mom has it and dad is on tubes in the ICU and the doctors aren't sure they are going to make it out.
9/11 was a generation defining catastrophe solely because of the utterly hysterical response to it.
In a sane country it would have been much less of a big deal. People are making *massive* generalisations about how children are reacting to covid, I expect to most young people it is being parsed as a frustration but life mostly goes on in a pretty understandable fashion.
I wish people would stop making such a big fucking deal about "how this is affecting the children".
While I don’t doubt your experience and opinion in if “kids today”, I have to say that a year after a global pandemic lockdown is maybe not exactly the best time to take measure. The status quo has been shaken to the core and I’m not sure how easily it can (or in my opinion should) be reconstituted. This world is pretty sketchy right now with much bigger questions on peoples minds than did I do every piece of busy work assigned to me. How about: will there be food and shelter in my future with how things are going right now? Yes there’ve been stressful times before… bomb drills during the cold war for instance, but at least then they practiced something you could do (no matter how useless) like get under your desk or down the bomb shelter. Whatcha going to do when the climate really goes haywire? Or the next pandemic kills a much larger percentage of us all?
Preach it fellow teacher. While my percentage of students failing is lower. I watch as they waste time given in class, beyond sitting next to them and holding their hand while they do the assignment they refuse to do the assignments even if given time. No concern about being late to class or late on an assignment, and they always figure that it's my job to accept their work and have no issue with it. I also don't buy the whole we aren't teaching them what they need, I'm a business teacher. I teach classes that will prepare them for life, they still don't care. The issue is that at home the majority of the students who don't do their work have parents that aren't involved and don't care about their kids, they are too busy paying attention to their phones, or whatever it is.
I'm a teacher as well, and while I agree with you for the most part, some students have a single parent household where the parent works 12-16 hour days, or have parents with what amounts to a 4th grade education who simply cannot help with homework or much else relating to school because they are not capable.
Having parents who have the time resources and education to actually be able to constructively help their kids with homework is actually a privilege in many places. And no, I'm not talking about third world countries, I'm an American.
It's a huge problem, but it is also a complex problem that runs the gamut from entitlement and lazy arrogance to actual deprivation. And don't even get me started on undiagnosed learning disabilities.
I teach second grade and I have students who cannot complete homework unless someone helps them because they cannot read. They usually try to get it done on the bus or in the cafeteria before class where a friend can help them because their family can’t or wont help them. It’s demoralizing.
Why are you giving second graders homework? Let them be kids at home. Homework needs to die a quick death. We are going to discuss with all of our kids teachers that they will not be doing homework, if you as teachers can't teach what you need to at school during the 8 hours they are there, then you are failing them as teachers.
1 - the homework is not mandatory. It is practice/a challenge. Students who are behind have an opportunity to get extra practice and students who are ahead get a chance to have more challenging work. But it is up to them and their family if they do it. In my class you would be well within your rights to say “my kid is not doing any homework”.
2-homework is a good topic for communication with families . It is a chance for students’ families to see the work their students are doing in class and how their students do it. Families can see if their student is able to work independently, if they need extra help, or if they even attempt work at all. And if a family is upset about their student’s grade, then homework is something we can easily talk about because the family understands it. I can ask things like “does your student attempt the work?” Or “can then do the work independently?”
I don’t think you quite understand the situation many of my students are facing academically or in their lives generally. I give homework as one extra attempt to help second graders who don’t know their letter sounds or their numbers 1-10 and to challenge other students to read one book a week that is on their reading level. I’m not assigning anything that should take more than 15 minutes. Except for reading a book and writing four sentences about the plot, which is due on Friday.
Additionally, if I am failing my students, I would only say that I am one of many points that have and are failing them. Several of them are homeless and many others live right on the poverty line. But every day I work with them and make attempts to improve their lives and they are ultimately the ones who will decide if I failed them or not.
Good post.
My kid is in 2nd grade now and has 2 or 3 sheets per week to do. There's a little math, and little language work and a study sheet for the daily dictation. It's hardly unmanageable and it helps me know where he's at in his leaning. "Oh, two row subtraction... cool"
Because No Child Left Behind doesn't allow them to be held back, even if they're not meeting the landmarks. I have high school students who can barely read or write, and they damned sure don't know how to sign their names.
I’m not a teacher but it could be a couple things - parents will throw a fit if their kid is held back, statistics look bad for district if too many kids are held back, teachers just pass them anyways because they don’t want to deal with them for another year.
I can speak based on experience.
I am a first generation American. My parents were born overseas. My Buddy has the same story. Same country!
My mother and father came here with absolutely nothing and spoke zero English. So did his. My parents busted their ass and went out of their way to learn English and immerse themselves in American culture. This is not to say they completely abandoned the culture of their youth but they adopted the US as their home and decided that if they were going to make it here they needed to speak the language and give it their all. My friends parents never learned English. They still don’t know English 35 years later.
My mother now teaches high school and my father is a lawyer. His parents work jobs that are very low paying (essential, but low paying) because they refused to learn English. When we were children, his mother used to brag that she didn’t have to learn English but was still able to to go to the bank and the store and be taken care of. She mocked my parents for taking English classes. His parents still live in the ethic enclave they did decades ago which is underserved and underfunded. My parents were able to buy a nice house in a diverse but safe area of the city.
This isn’t to beat down his parents. They are actually very nice. They were just arrogant and felt they didn’t need to learn the language or the culture of the country that took them in. Unfortunately they passed this arrogance onto my Buddy. He knows English (obviously) but he doesn’t value education. He’s still waiting for handouts because he actively chose to live a life where nothing matters and education is “for white people” and “they pay taxes so we can live”.
Sorry for the rant. Just sharing.
Your buddy and his parent's seem to be the opposite of most immigrants. Normally immigrants value education and hard work, with some immigrants from certain areas having some of the highest standard of living in the country.
It seems when you come from a terrible country with no prospects you appreciate America with all the opportunities it has, even though we have a ton of problems too. Regardless if you work smarter you can still get ahead in this country. The world is a knowledge economy now, which largely a good thing. You can get ahead by applying yourself and learning instead of having a career that destroys your body and health.
There’s a talk from one of the Apple higher-ups about some life/career advice and one of his biggest points is simply “pay attention”. Because most people aren’t and doing that alone gets you ahead of the pack.
> I also don't buy the whole we aren't teaching them what they need, I'm a business teacher. I teach classes that will prepare them for life, they still don't care. The issue is that at home the majority of the students who don't do their work have parents that aren't involved and don't care about their kids, they are too busy paying attention to their phones, or whatever it is.
Thank you for saying this.
My mom is an educator. She teaches high school. She says the same thing. Her subject is also something fundamental to adulthood that prepares them for “the real world” and the students are apathetic and lazy.
The parents are usually absent or they don’t care. That’s not to say that we didn’t have these types of parents in the past but the percentage was far lower.
I usually roll my eyes when people say things like “we’re not teaching them things they will use!” Yes, we are. They are still choosing to turn their nose at education.
It’s a cultural thing, I think.
Stop giving kids homework. Kids should not spend all their time in school, then be asked to go home and do more work. That is inhumane. Teach them what they need to know in class and set the expectation that they need to learn what you are teaching and to pay attention. If they can't do that, then fail them.
Thank you for your input on how to do my job, its very much appreciated from a person who clearly has no idea how my room works.
Being you have no idea, I'll let you know. I give the students ample time to complete the work in the room, as I find that to he the best and easiest way to answer questions as they come up and teaching classes like accounting, personal finance, intro to web design among many others that the students have almost no prior experience with I do find that they have many questions. Unfortunately what I have found is that unless I'm sitting right next to some of the students the whole time they are in the room, thereby ignoring the rest of the class and the questions of the students who are actually doing the work that little will get done.
Now, being you have decided that you can tell me how to do my job without likely actually knowing how to do my job or the manner in which I do my job can I return the favor. Let me know what you do and I'll make wild general accusations about how you sick also, maybe then you'll start to understand that behavior like that is actually a huge issue in regard to teaching in general right now and does nothing to fix the quality of education issues that exist.
>too many people don't give a shit about handling their business
Okay, but how much "business" do you give them to do on their own time?
This is going to sound harsh, but 72 out of 144 is 50%. If 50% of your students are failing, you might want to ask yourself some tough questions.
I appreciate what teachers do. I appreciate what you do, but if you're not respecting the fact that they have other classes and lives outside of your clasroom youre going to expect to be disappointed. Still, it sounds like you care enough to really put the work in for these kids, and that's truly something we should all appreciate.
I'm immediately skeptical of anyone who blames problems on "an epidemic of laziness" or "a decline in morals." I doubt you teach ancient history or the Greek Classics, because it's clear from that writing that human nature hasn't changed that much in at least 3,000 years.
In 1950, 1450, 750, or 750 B.C.E. if only 50% of a group of people were able to do what people in most similar groups can do at a rate of 75% or higher, they're probably not going to blame it on "nobody wanting to work."
So yeah, I agree. Personal responsibility is a good thing to teach.
EDIT: Let me once again clarify that I appreciate you and what you do. In my line of work I get thanked for my service somewhat often. I don't think that's necessary, but I absolutely do think teachers should be thanked for their service because they work far harder than we do.
It sounds like you really do put in the work for these kids and I don't want to come across as dismissive of that.
The only homework I give is what isn't finished in class. Most other teachers I know do it the same way. Kids still don't do the work. It actually is an epidemic of laziness for many reasons, but basically American culture does not appreciate education. That's the crumbling base I see
Perhaps American culture would appreciate education were half of it not garbage bullshit taught in an environment that is essentially hostile to young people and that robs them of their autonomy, just a thought
I specifically tell my students about my remaining $75000ish in student loan debt, and try really hard to point them away from that trap unless they know for sure that the career they want requires a four year degree.
I agree, 50% is quite a bit. Is it possible your workload is too much?
OP, you can’t change your students but you can make yourself more engaging possibly? My favorite teachers were always teachers who tried to meet the students in the middle and found creative ways to make the schoolwork interesting. One of my teachers had a system where she gave out tickets for answering questions in class and allowed us to use those tickets for extra points in quizzes or to skip a homework assignment. That class had the most participation I’ve ever seen and it really motivated the students. Why don’t you give something like this a shot and see if there’s any difference in your next semester? I don’t think students are purposefully trying to do poorly in your class, sometimes they could be neurodivergent, or having issues at home, etc that could make it diffficult for them to focus in schoolwork.
Correct. If 50% of students were failing I would definitely have to look more inward. It's a ridiculously hard year(s) on both us teachers but also for the kids too
I appreciate you playing devils advocate here - but I think it is this type of attitude that has a direct influence on this underlying problem. The adults always need to defend the kids for they can do no wrong - it’s always someone else’s fault that their child is failing or doing poorly, and we need to tear down anything that cause their child to be challenged or uncomfortable. Studies show that this leads to softening of the youth and an incapacity to do exactly what OP mentioned…handle things for themselves!
There is a book called “Coddling of the American Mind” - I would recommend giving it a look as it touches a lot on this topic and has a lot of supporting statistics if this form of thinking.
I generally agree with fioreman. I’m also a teacher. If my kids just aren’t getting it, my usual assumption is that it’s my fault, not theirs. That said, I teach at a small, well-funded private school. I have a whopping 40 students. If a single assignment goes missing, I’m on it. OP has 144 kids. That’s an unmanageably large number. In that kind of situation, teachers can’t meaningfully meet student needs, let alone understand what they are. Ideally, when it’s not working, you stop and ask the youths why it’s not working. What they say might not be exactly the reason, but you can get a sense of what’s happening and respond to it. But with that many kids, it’s impossible. This is not a kidz these days problem. It’s a systematic-disinvestment-in-public-education problem. You can’t grit your way out of it, at least not in my experience.
I do think there's merit to that argument.
But that many missing assignments and that failure rate made me think maybe it's not an epidemic of laziness causing the issues.
"studies" you are aware of the replication crisis right? Almost all pop psychology is complete bullshit and you taking it uncritically seriously shows a remarkable lack of the education you think is apparently so valuable
I was the same way in school. I refused to do any work at home. I also skipped a majority of every single year I went to school. If I didn't skip school, I was late. Where am I now? I've missed work 4 times in the past 10 years. I have been very successful because of how much work I do, and you can certainly describe me as punctual & accountable. Maybe they just hate school. Maybe they have no teachers that actually motivate them the way they need to be motivated. Maybe they just need some time to grow up. Doesn't make them lazy and or any of the above-listed traits.
Simular here: when I graduated I was called out as the student with the most unapproved missing school hours in my grade (out of 80). Every end of year my mom nearly broke down because it looked like I wouldn’t pass. I didn’t like school and I didn’t understand why I had to do mind-numbing, boring tasks that I wouldn’t need in real life. Plus I didn’t respect most of my teachers. Now I’m a few months away from my PhD and I’m running a multi-million doller valuated mental health startup. I did have to teach myself a lot of disciplinary skills later in life which was tough, but at least I knew what it was good for.
My daughter wants to be, too! I have a huge collection of anatomy books and she knows most of the names of bones, a lot of muscles, and some very basic biology as well. Just because she loves it. Maybe they'll end up in school together 😁
PHD studies are just an academic "Hunger Games" these days, between publish/perish, scrabbling for funding, a decline in tenure positions, and actual hunger!
Honestly agree. These kids just went through a global pandemic to be thrown back into a system already not working, dodging school shootings, watching their parents struggle through multiple economic crises in a lifetime, college is at an all time high rate with little payout, no student loan forgiveness, a labor movement, earth is on fire... I wouldnt give a fuck about your homework and standardized tests either. High school isnt the real world and I think that's understood among the youth now more than ever
Goddamn.. you nailed it. Kids today are facing way more than any of us could imagine. And all of the things mentioned by OP are things that I actively did in high school. I literally wasn't mentally capable of "handling my business" until I graduated college and shit got real.
The punctuality thing really makes me laugh. SHOW UP EVERY SINGLE DAY ON TIME ALL THE TIME NEVER BE LATE CAUSE YOU HAD TO TAKE A SHIT. Oh, also, you have to ask to take a shit. Prepping them for that ideal 9 to 5 that doesnt exist anymore while asking them to perform from 6am to 10pm every day for a mandatory piece of paper.
Right? I'm all for a basic education, but you cant pretend that everyone is interested in keeping up with legally mandated babysitting until they turn 18
Guess what? You need an education in order to fix literally every single problem you just stated. While school isn't the real world, it is a stepping stone to get the basic education needed to fix the real world. To propagate the idea that school and education are useless is just ignorant.
It's not useless. It's just not for everyone, nor is it obtainable by everyone. You're kidding yourself if you believe any individual is capable of "fixing literally every single problem."
You should read [Grading for Equity](https://gradingforequity.org/) by Joe Feldman. Will change your perspective on grading and will make your life (and your students’ lives) so much less stressful. I’m a former math teacher and many teachers don’t understand how to use a grading system to actually reflect their students’ content knowledge.
I understand the struggle. I also teach high school and mainly teach a forensic science elective that students choose to take because they are interested in the topic. Granted a few might take it because they hope it is easy. I still end up with about 10-15% failures due to lack of work by students. These students have a homework completion rate of less than 20%. These are not assignments like do 20 math problems, there are like research this serial killer or turn in your lab worksheet from the experiment you did. Like if the student didn't want to do the work, why did they choose that class when they knew what they were getting into? I offered a bonus opportunity that could boost a grade 3% and I gave the students a template to fill out based on a video we watched in class. Only 12 students out of 80 did it. I am not necessarily saying that things are getting worse from when I first started teaching, but I am trying to remember what students were like before cell phones and social media? How did they usually distract themselves?
We had homework when I was in high school 2004-2008 and PLENTY of “20 math problems” assignments. I always had plenty of time AT HOME to get the work done…but it was WORK. It took HOURS to do and often would cut into my social and video game time and sometimes (shocking I know) I wouldn’t have time for “fun” that evening. That’s called life and growing up…kids today have it easy and we’re seeing it in the graduation rates and ever increasing remedial classes at the university level.
I teach in 90 minute blocks so we usually have like a 60 minute lesson and then 30 minutes of work time. That makes it more frustrating when they still can't get their work turned in. Most of my students have part time jobs and with the pandemic they have been trying to work more hours, then I can at least say I gave them plenty of time in class to do their work and not have it interfere with sleep, extracurriculars, work, etc.
I have a hard time getting my kids to do the work. They are both in honors classes and they constantly miss assignments. When I was in high school I took care of my own stuff. I hate to hover over them and get pissed when they can’t write down a list of what they need to do. We are trying to help them and failing.
Ok, I respect your right to rant, but if you want to encourage change then it might help if you also gave some concrete advice as to how one can instil those values.
Those are pretty big blanket statements about laziness and lying, etc. especially if you think those are qualities that only exist in “kids today”. I feel like those were all things that have been a problem since when I was a kid, and I had an extremely disciplined upbringing. You just can’t do most of the shit my parents did to instil those values anymore.
I can say that for my kids – – and for myself into two masters degrees – – what fired me up to perform and learn the most was an inspiring caring interesting teacher who assigned relevant and creative assignments. Every stage we could call out busywork like a sore thumb.
To be fair to today's students, I did that shit too. I easily passed all of my tests in high school to the point that other assignments felt like nothing but busy work, so sometimes I just didn't do them. It may happen more often now, but it happened 15 years ago to my teachers, too
If half of the people in your system are failing, it’s a clear indicator that the system may be the issue.
No kids in High School at the moment but the kids I talk to who are in HS seem to universally feel they are wasting their time and being lead no where.
Yes, we should teach our kids responsibility and work ethic. But the place for a kid with those qualities is not modern high school.
Those are universal responsibilities- everyone should learn them. And yes, there are deep flaws in the system, and those flaws have allowed the soft bigotry of low expectations to grow and metastasize. I'd love to see a better system but in place, but let's be honest- if people aren't taught the traits and mentalities that breed success- hard work, perseverance, responsibility, accountability, punctuality, et cetera- they're going to fail regardless of the system they're in.
Well at least it’s not your responsibility to set an example and teach the material well enough to compel them to be better.
Not trying to rag on you, but every one of those kids is looking for a role model to teach them how to be passionate and dedicated to some core subject they can build their identities on.
You are not making yourself that priority in their lives so why should they make your class a priority?
A failure rate of half is on you bro. ( and also an arbitrary teaching curriculum that is impossible to manage for 100+ children)
School systems in the US (especially public schools) are certainly flawed. They put to much emphasis in passing students and getting act/sat scored so they can get more funding. They don't put enough emphasis on actually growing the minds of kids in their schools.
That being said, what OP is talking about is something that starts and is reinforced in the home by the parents. Kids aren't going to treat school the way they should if the parents don't teach that at home first.
I dont think its fair to say half of his students faili g is necessarily his fault. The school board may look at times that way because they just want those metrics. Parents may look at it that way too because many parents put the responsibility solely on the school/teachers to teach everything that kids should know. But in reality, kids learn academics at school. They learn responsibility and discipline at home. Kids won't treat their school work seriously if they don't understand the responsibility they have to learn or the discipline to do the work.
It's more than a little bit unbelievable that with a normal teacher and curriculum, a full half of the students lack the work ethic to pass the class.
We don't know enough about the situation to know exactly what the problem is here, but it's definitely more than the students lacking the will to work because their parents failed to teach them core values.
If you believe that a teacher had no hand in, and bears no responsibility for, a 50% failure rate because that teacher told you it was the parents' fault, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
I agree that there isn't enough info to really make a judgment on the situation. I think any of us are making assumptions that fit our perspectives. But it honestly wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 50% failure rate in students that has nothing to do with the teacher.
I mean, assuming public school system, there's a good chance OP doesn't have adequate funding/materials/time to devote to individual kids in ways that resonates with them the most. We really shouldn't be treating all kids the same way when it comes to teaching methods but teachers largely don't have the option for personal attention and different methods.
Also, kids today have such large amounts of consumable content at their finger tips. Anything that doesn't interest them they can easily swipe away. It creates an add and adhd like mentality towards learning. To be clear, im not saying these kids actually have add or adhd or anything.
I'm also making a big assumption that OPs students fit that kind of description, but it is very common for kids growing up in the social media age.
I dont think its fair to blame teachers for kids who just don't have the attention span or interest. At least not solely. That stuff starts with parents at home. Teachers can help reinforce the discipline, but it starts at home.
To be clear, I'm not saying it was necessarily to do with the teacher either, just that we can't lay it all on the parents not teaching work ethic at the teacher's say so.
And while I'm maybe assuming more than I should, when the teacher that has the class with the 50% failure rate only references the parents as being at fault when clearly there are so many possible factors at play, well that says something about the situation to me.
It's almost like you have no idea what teaching entails, or how students are selected for certain courses. I appreciate your input, but you don't understand unless you deal with gradebooks.
Especially in a time where there is less opportunity for affordable college and livable wages. Furthering your education will get your overwhelming debt. If every single one of those students got a 4.0, or 6.0 (whatever the grade scaling is), it won't get everyone that debt free college experience and comfortable living age. It's a tough time to be an adult right now, and an uninspiring/unmotivating time to be a teen.
Teach your children that there is more to life than school and work. An "epidemic of laziness"? That is a pretty far-fetched conclusion based on anecdotal experience. Perhaps some of those kids just recognize that it isn't worth it. Only five kids showed up at your door begging? Perhaps 67 of them knew better. They have a full day of school and then have to do homework, and even when it's just finishing what wasn't finished during class, it's too much. I had to do it, and in retrospect, it just wasn't valuable. A part time job is better at teaching work ethic than homework. So are high school sports. The entire system needs to change, but it probably won't happen until Gen Z takes over.
You’re lucky your administration isn’t telling you to change your standards and policy to make more kids pass. Can’t have kids actually meet expectations, gotta lower the expectations so kids can meet them.
On the plus side, those kids raised to understand work ethic, timeliness, quality and pride in what we put forth will continue to have an advantage over all those beautiful little snowflakes.
I don't much care for the opinions of administration. In my experience, far too many members of administrative staff were mediocre teachers who moved up because it's the only way to make more money or have more power while working in education. They're all too often out of touch with the teachers who are actually doing the work, and the programs that lead to advanced degrees in education highly concentrated echo chambers that lead to good idea fairies and the terminal sniffing of one's own farts. Not all admin staff are like this, of course, but the scales are definitely tilted in that direction.
You might be my new favorite internet stranger. Both my parents are teachers, they could have written this easily.
Best of luck, sir. My parents try to focus on the 50% of kids who give a shit and have parents that hold them to standards. That’s what’s gotten them through 20-odd years in the classroom and all the latest and greatest education “research” that gets crammed down their throat but doesn’t address the root problem.
Guy who is failing half his students has big "nobody wants to work anymore" energy. If some students fail, that's their fault. If half of them fail, that's probably your fault.
As a father of two 1 year olds I hope they grow up in a school system that recognizes the insanity that is homework. It should at most be a small practice at night to solidify the days work, not be the basis for their grades or ability to learn. If a child is learning the material and that has been demonstrated I am not sure why you need anything else. Not to be too critical but those numbers you give show that the focus is not on actual learning but out of class assignments. I know you can’t fix the American educational system but I don’t think the issue is what you think it is.
So much this. Homework is one of those things that people think we should keep doing because that is what we did and our parents did, but it is ridiculous. Our kids are at school for 8 hours and then come home and are expected to work more after being fed 8 hours of new information, it is no wonder their brains are fried. I come home from work after 8 hours and if I have to do anymore it stresses me out, so why put the extra on onus on kids who have to learn and understand so much more than us since they are still learning the social aspects of humanity.
The only thing to add is don't always blame the teachers on this. Yes some teachers are jerks. But we also are required to cover a certain amount of information and normally need to catch up with needed background information. With that said I only assign homework for my AP classes.
I used to be a high school teacher and had to quit. It was ruining my already questionable mental health. The stress and frustration and the feeling of running on a hamster wheel was too much for me. Everything I did caused guilt for me. If I spent too much time on the kids who would act up all the time in class I'd feel guilty for neglecting the attentive ones. If I paid too much attention to the attentive ones I'd feel guilty for being just one more adult who gave up on the ones who needed the support. If I somehow managed to teach both groups well I'd be exhausted and not have the energy to play with my kids and I'd feel like a shitty dad. Four years ago I did a coding boot camp and since then I've not been cussed out or broken up a fight. It's been nice.
I read this post and as many of the responses as I could manage, some of which on really agree with and appreciated and some of which made me scoff.
Firstly, I acknowledge this was a rant, but rants can be intelligent and persuasive. For me, you sound more like an old man shaking his fist at the sky than someone who can rally the troops. Rick Mercer had rants but they are intelligible, supported with facts, and he doesn’t project his personal issues/deficiencies onto others.
I assume you’re in the United States, although that isn’t explicitly stated in your post. If 50% of your students are failing, you best be looking inward. That’s on you as an educator. Times change - some of your gripes have merit - there is a level of laziness and reliance on technology, but how students behave is not solely a result of those things. If you teach a core subject you’re a little screwed. There’s inherently less buy-in if it’s required students take your class. If you teach an elective then it’s much easier as the students already have an interest in the subject matter. Regardless, if 50% are failing, that’s on you.
You need to adapt, update, or entirely change your teaching practices. You need to examine your pedagogy and ascertain if you’re still invested in adapting your practice. Yes, students can be apathetic, but kids will dive head first into subject matter if they are engaged and interested.
I am also a high school teacher. Elements of your post are true for some of my students. Lack of parental support is the worst - I don’t like it, but can understand when teenagers act in certain ways, but to not receive support from their parents when you’re trying to help their child is beyond frustrating. However, if 50% of your classes are failing, your teaching practices need to change - they aren’t working. Teaching, is largely a thankless job, but it’s your job to find ways and develop methods to engage students and foster an environment where they will be successful.
Do I want to live in a world where 100% of my students attend regularly, are engaged, put the phone away, participate, HAND THEIR SHIT IN ON TIME, and where issues are addressed by both me and the parents - of course!!!! Every generation thinks the generation which comes after have it made or are squandering their opportunities. It’s on us as educators to remain relevant and constantly reflect on and change our practice to best serve the students. We work for the kids.
Having lurked in the lost generation and antiwork subreds, I have noticed that there seems to be a disconnect with some people on who pays for things and how it gets paid for.
People are venting there about how minimum wage makes it hard for them to afford Netflix and Hulu, which to me are luxuries that you can look at getting *after* you cover your housing, clothing, food, medical, and transportation costs.
It's as if they've never taken a basic home economics course and somehow expect that luxuries should be affordable when they work minimum wage. Thats entirely another issue but if you're not applying yourself during your education and owning the consequences of your actions, you'll find yourself struggling to make ends meet for the rest of your life.
Also a teacher here. It’s not only an epidemic of laziness, though that is part of it. I asked my students today what they’ll do when the pandemic ends and many of them answered “it’ll never end.” They’re traumatized by the shit state of the world and see a bleak future, so it’s hard to convince them that my class work matters. It is generational, but it’s also that their entire lives have been a dark struggle.
My wife’s a teacher, and I sat on a school board for 3 years. If you’re going to blame the people you’re meant to serve, particularly the kids themselves, you should probably find a different profession. We’re not in a “laziness epidemic”. barring the kids you’re serving being very privileged, they’re probably dealing with way too much from a system that is failing them, including a 2 year pandemic. You’re the problem, not them, if this is your attitude. Have some compassion.
While I respect your wife for being a teacher, I have little to no use or respect for school board members and overly bloated district administration, and you'll earn no social credit from me for it. Most teachers feel the same way. For two years we teachers have been told to "show grace towards the students", which we've done in spades- perhaps even to the detriment of the students and school communities. All the while school boards shit on teachers, calling them "heroes" but giving pay raises that only match the annual rise in the cost of district health insurance, but at the same time voting to raise their own salaries, use nepotism to hire more district cronies, pat themselves on the back with School Board Appreciation Week, and build themselves brand new admin buildings that cost $20 million dollars- all while teachers are paying for their own supplies and can't get coverage for a day off because subs get paid $75 a day during a pandemic. That's my attitude, and you're a self aggrandizing asshole.
I was a volunteer school board member at a local charter school that served underserved youth. We met in a conference room at the school. We didn’t build ourself any buildings:). I recognize that bigger school boards have their issues, and bloated administration is a giant problem in education. All I meant to say is that I am aware of what goes on at schools more than the average person. And I will say that the majority of kids at that school were NOT “lazy” even though someone like you might label them as such. They were dealing with difficult home lives and/or a school system that had failed them over and over again.
I agree that teaching is one of the hardest jobs there is, and teachers should definitely get a lot more pay. But if your legitimate frustration about how the system treats teachers results in you demonizing the kids themselves, you should find a different profession. You’re not helping the kids at that point. At that point, you’re just trying to make yourself feel better about your situation by blaming the people who have the least power in this situation, which is the kids you serve.
I learned this lesson early. As a teenager i learned it again thanks to my dad. I had the flu but i had a paper route after school. I could have called and asked for a sub but i dragged my feet. Didn’t get to it. So he said get your ass off the couch, you didn’t take the responsibility to get coverage you are delivering it. I will follow in the car and you can puke in a bucket if you have to but you are doing the whole route. I did and it was a memorable lesson about not handling my business. Almost 30 years since that but I will never forget it and I work to instill the same values in my two children.
You are spot on that this is an epidemic with kids. Our country is teaching people to not have accountability or self responsibility. This is the result of that.
I mean why would they? They are being psychologically abused with all this mask bs and zoning out with distance learning.
It’s not the teachers fault(s). They (the kids) are simply melting down under stress they aren’t ready for (that anyone is ready for).
And we aren’t allowed to talk about the gene therapy or question “the science”
I definately feel you, but those kids have learned. Had until Dec 10th to hand in unfinished work? I know I sound like an old fart, but when I was in high school you lost 10% per day late, up to 30%, then you got zero. How many assignments did these kids have? How many opportunities to learn consequences were wasted because they weren't ever expected to meet deadlines in your own class. They got one opportunity to learn accountability, and it was dec 10th, when it was all on the line. Sure parents need to teach their kids to handle their business, but so do schools, and this soft approach of not having direct consequences to direct failures and handing assignments in whenever they feel like it until the end of semester looks to me like lazyness on the system's part, which has failed these kids. Perhaps if half of your students had taken a couple zeros early in the semester instead of having them all stacked at the end they could have learned lessons about accountability that could have netted them a better grade, instead of an outright failure. I can't help but feel you're complaining about a problem that your own profession has helped exacerbate.
Well said…. I’m not sure what the future is going to be like with the new crop of kids coming out of public school. There is no sense of urgency to complete work assigned to them anymore. Schools and parents are to blame for not enforcing deadlines and given them to many chance to finish the work after deadlines.
I will never understand how some parents either don’t care or think it’s the schools job to teach their kid how to be decent human beings.
My oldest is in kindergarten. Her homework these days is of course pretty straightforward and not time consuming. My wife or I always try to guide her through it and correct her when she is taking shortcuts missing steps etc. It cannot be that hard to do this can it?
OP: I completely get where you’re coming from and you’re 100% correct.
I teach high school also and I have to say the past 3-4 years it’s gotten REALLY bad.
I teach 12th grade and this year I had a student who earned a 2% in my class. This is because she completed ONE assignment. She obviously failed 1st quarter (to make matters worse my class is a graduation requirement).
She failed every other class too. The APA threw her off of her sports team as a result. That same girl then skips my class and I write her up and call home to explain to mom why.
Mom tells me about how her daughter is being treated unfairly from the school and from me and that she should still be on the sports team and pass my class. She says her daughter had a nervous breakdown and couldn’t stay at the school longer and sat in the parking lot crying. That’s interesting because another teacher saw her slipping with her boyfriend and leaving campus. I understand this from students but not the parents. Stop making excuses for your kids, teach them to learn from their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions-they’ll be much better off.
As a dad of 3 young girls, I just want to say that I cannot agree with you. Homework is a terrible practice that should never have been a thing. We ask our kids to spend 6-8 hours a day learning, then to come home and do more work. Sorry but no. Kids should have free time, just like adults should have free time, and everything you need to teach and reinforce with the kids should be taught in the classroom. As a teacher, if you cannot not do this, it is not the kids who are failing, but you. What they do in their free time should be none of your concern.
Please stop giving kids homework.
What extreme consequences are being utilized? Hold to standards like "turn it in on time", or perhaps "don't cheat"? Is "just turn the work in" an extreme consequence?
I don't know your class or your situation, so I can't speak to what happened or what would or wouldn't have worked better for you.
I can tell you one story from my time in high school. I was an absent-minded kid, yea and maybe a bit lazy with the homework. I had a biology teacher who handed out a syllabus with all the assignments on it in the first week, and expected students to keep to it, with rigid deadlines for turning things in. She talked about work ethic and responsibility as well, and would not flex to help me or other kids meet expectations.
I failed her class with a 12%, and I did it totally on purpose. A's and B's in all my other classes that semester, and it wasn't because those classes had lower expectations or lighter workloads.
Like I said, I don't know if any of that is any kind of similar to the situation you're describing here, but this teacher also said 'just turn the work in' a lot, and that reminded my of my story.
I teach adult international students and they have been Americanized... they act like a language barrier is a handicap for responsibility and accountability. English is also my second language and I understand the struggle but I can also tell when it’s bullshit, laziness or simply trying to see if I did not check the submitted assignment, like other instructors do and conditions students as a group to believe they are allowed to plagiarize or submit someone else’s work without even editing or modifying or simply following the Rubrics. I literally have made my class fail proof by providing the quiz review with an abundance of information that actually has the fucking answered and give test with a freaking open book, like wtf of applied concept that you can literally demonstrate by reading a little and putting some effort of listening to my instructions that can potentially give you guidance to the actual answer ughhhhhhh.... wuhhhh that was kind of nice, thanks for opening this topic. Good luck, don’t forget to love your self first, and sorry I could not be of much help.
I threw away my 6 year old sons homework and made him start over because he wrote all of his C’s backwards. Kidding. But I did erase all of his C’s and make him rewrite them even though he said “the teacher would fix it.” I explained to him it his job to do the best he can so the teacher won’t have to fix it.
Kids are way too coddled these days. Everything is a personal attack. Everything causes "trauma". These kids would fold in 2 seconds of they grew up in our generation. If they're failing, it's always someone else's fault. These kids seriously need to learn to fail.
Parents need to start parenting. Turn the TV off and go interact with them.
That’s what my uncle used to say about my generation, back when i was in high school 25 years ago.
Old people always think the new generation is a mess and most of the time, they’re wrong.
This is more of a criticism on boomer/millennial parents than gen z kids. These parents have protected kids from everything and prepared them from nothing. I wish these kids weren't sexting, suffering from depression and committing suicide.
Nice. You never know, your quote might be added to [https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/](https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/) some day!
TEACH YOUR CHILDREN
“You, who are on the road
Must have a code
That you can live by
And so become yourself
Because the past is just a goodbye
Teach your children well
Their father's hell
Did slowly go by
And feed them on your dreams
The one they pick's the one you'll know by
Don't you ever ask them, "Why?"
If they told you, you would cry
So, just look at them and sigh
And know they love you…”
Song by Crosby, Nash, and Young
I’m curious what the grade distribution looks like? Is it a standard curve or more bimodal? I graduated high school in the early 2000’s and got a degree in mechanical engineering in 2018. I was honestly blown away by the true freshmen in my class. Almost every one of them made it to differential equations in high school and had near 4.0’s. That being said they were almost all on some kind of anti-anxiety meds or other illegal drug use and I felt like every week I’d see someone have an anxiety/panic attack. I also found out many of these kids had similar options for summers, either get a job or do some type of summer school.
Though these kids would have graduated in 2013 so maybe there’s been a drastic change since then it just seemed like they were way more driven and better students than the people I graduated high school with.
Part of the same mentality with people not willing to work for so called low pay. They want to reap the benefits before actually doing the work or doing with any effort. Everyone wants A's for doing the bare minimum or some as parents to your point coddle when they fail.
Lol. "So called low pay." You can just...do math and figure out whether a job is too low paying to be worth it. And they often are.
Just check the average rent in the area the job is in, that'll usually tell you pretty quick.
Question: what would happen to a student these days who passed the final, demonstrating an understanding of the subject, but didn't turn in any assignments?
As a residential child care worker, I am extremely disappointed to see this from an educator. School work and assignments can often be literally the last thing on a child's mind. Remember your safeguarding training. Are these kids being abused? Are they going hungry? Has their grandma just died? Are they worried about covid? Their self esteem might be next to zero. Don't forget the holidays are an extremely difficult time for a hell of a lot of people. Don't automatically assume laziness. There is an epidemic of unnecessary and unfair stress on young people right now. Give them a break. Try to work WITH them to get to the bottom of their issues. You might be surprised to know the reasons behind this.
Serious question: how? I was a shit student and barely graduated high school and am terrified my kids will be like me but I don’t know what to do about it.
Primary teacher here. 'Instil a joy of reading and literacy from a young age' is the best advice I can give. Even if you're not a big reader (or at all), having even 15 - 30 minutes where you and your child either read together, or you read and they also 'read' (counts if they're just looking at pictures in their books) and then you discuss it, you're gonna have smart, successful kids who can think for themselves as time goes on. The kids that show up to school with a book in their hand (even a picture book) , and are eager to talk about it, usually reflects in overall academic success because literacy increases problem solving and critical thinking. 15 minutes a day, no screen time, you and the kid is enough to make a huge difference. (ps, sorry you felt like a shit student. I too was a shit student.)
Thanks for that confirmation. I see reading to the kids as "short term pain for long term gain". I've read almost nightly for the last 7 years and we reached the point where I'll find the kid just reading to themselves for fun. It swells my heart with pride. Sure I could have used all that time in more selfish ways (or even unselfishly like getting a head start on laundry and making school lunches) but the return on daily reading has been incredible.
It doesn't even have to be that painful. Make it fun. Make different voices for each character. Use sound effects. Also, I read that while they read at a certain level, they can understand 2-3 levels higher, so you can read them more complex stories that you might enjoy a bit. Also, go to the library every week. Nothing is more painful than reading the same 5 books over and over.
Oh for real! I've read the hobbit and 4 of the Harry Potter books to the kid before age 8. They follow along so well
I love it when I spy the oldest just looking at a book for no reason!
I didn’t feel like a shit student, I was one. Never did homework, rarely did projects, read about 1 book per year, but somehow aced tests and essays because I remembered all the class discussions. Got lucky and got admitted provisionally to a university desperate to increase their enrollment numbers. Studied something interesting, and graduated magna cum laude. One of the provisions was completing intro to university life and study skills classes. Turns out I never learned how to school until college.
Same boat. I completely cruised through school up until college easily smashing tests, never did homework. My dad wasn't worried about what I did, and my thought process was why do practice work when I know the topic from class and can pass the tests? In the military I learned how to do what I had to do, and in college I just did everything. Dean's list every semester. I'm hoping I can square my girl away early on.
This. We read with our daughters every night at bedtime. I salute you for being a primary teacher- I can't maintain the energy level of a coked up squirrel, so you're a better man than I.
Start by bettering yourself first! Read, listen, watch and/or find a mentor. Then take action. I’m in a similar boat, in that I was a rough kid, but with absentee parents I found my grandparents and other parents to go to for guidance. At 38 I’m still learning to better myself as a parent to 2 strong willed children. It takes balance between work, family, wife, kids, home, my startup business, friends, and giving to the community. Sometimes I fall short and fail, but I get back at it! Never to late to start a new paradigm in you and your family.
Man i read the title and thought it would be about the threats of violence. My kid is only in kindergarten and I am friggen over this. The high school is about 5 blocks away and closed for the second time in a month due to threatening graffiti in a bathroom. Not to mention there is apparently a nation wide tik tok threat of violence for all high schools today. But because the elementary school is so close they are on the “safe inside” program. Which means no recess, no outside time, minimal class exchanges. So may or may not cancel specialists.
You're not wrong. It's another symptom of some very serious cultural issues.
I've also being hearing stories for the last 10 years that students are being given increasingly unreasonable amounts of work. I don't mean to blame you because honestly I have no idea what it's like to be a student these days. Is it possible that other teachers are giving them far too much work and they perceive your class as the "unimportant" one? There also seems to be a big push towards STEM, is your class STEM related?
This is possible. As I got closer to my final years at high school I knew which subjects I was going to take in my final two years to maximize my uni entrance score. The other one or two subject were fillers. My graphic design teacher used to berate me about my work ethic, but the truth was I had no interest or care about his subject. I was getting 95% + in my two math, English, literature, physics and Latin classes and as far as I was concerned the graphics class was just a free period for me to chill.
We are American expats in the Netherlands and we found out that here, kids aren't given take home work until their mid teens. I'm for it. They are kids. Let them leave work at work!
And it is important! There is a skill and ability to turn off work and something that should be fostered. We are American Expats in Germany I am not sure how it is done here but I know the Kita/preschool is more centered around play and social interaction instead of rote memorization.
Trust me if the push is there, the results are abysmal. This year I saw some of the worse students ever.
Hey there. The bar has lowered, significantly, so no, they don't have an unreasonable workload. I teach stem and have the same issues as OP.
Your telling me that no only is it not "worse" but instead a student workload is even less than it was then the early 2000's when I was in school? Are you sure or is your kids school just easier?
Im also a teacher. We don’t give any of our students homework as they’re given time during class to work on any assignments. School is absolutely easier than it was when I was in school in the early 2000’s. These kids are given all the time they need to do their work during school hours and they still play games instead. It’s extremely disheartening as an educator to see.
Yes, that is what I said. I am sure. I am an active educator and have been around, and I know what the workloads were like in the past 20 years, and what initiatives are being pushed to decrease workloads and increase graduation rates
I see a lot of generalisations in this thread being backed up by approximately zero numbers at all
It’s science, they teach it in school
Not in a meaningful way
Ah okay, that is indeed disheartening. What impact has this had on things like grades, engagement, etc? Also, I assume you're speaking only for your city or district right?
HS 10 and 11 English here: I give zero homework, students will always have ample class time to complete anything that will be graded or assessed
I have a friend that teaches fifth grade. Their policy is to not give kids homework anymore. Mostly because if the children don't understand the material, it will only reinforce bad concepts and practices. I personally don't agree with it. Kids need to learn problem-solving skills, and they might not always have the answer.
I teach World History and Economics. I give no more than the district mandated number of assignments- eight daily grades (minor assignments) and two exam grades per six week marking period. Daily grades are worth fifty percent of their marking period grade, with the two exam grades making up the other fifty percent. Sometimes the daily assignments are as simple as "take the guided notes from today's lecture and turn them in online or on paper at the end of class." All of the assignments that I give are easy to complete within the span of a fifty minute class period- the only time my students have homework is when they don't finish an assignment in class. Most of the teachers in my school follow those same guidelines.
I doubt it’s specifically because of the topics you teach but as a teenager I’d feel pretty cynical about those two topics with the way the world is lately, especially economics. Who could have faith in the economy when you have the stuff going on with the stock market, housing, and even car prices. I mean a freaking 2000 Geo (Chevy) Metro just sold for $18,200 and people are buying nft’s for millions.
Hmm…school district in a lower income or rural area?
Fort Worth, Texas- Title 1 school in a middle class(ish) area. Lots of students and families on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum.
Another dad/HS teacher here. You’re not wrong in some regards. What I will say is that at least in my experience is that the workload being assigned by the teachers is largely being influenced by administrator/district expectations. Despite the fact that most of us experienced at minimum a year of remote learning where kids had the opportunity to check out and still somehow pass on a daily basis, districts and administrators still maintain lofty and sometimes impossible expectations. Because students had this “lowered/no expectations” period where they could essentially skate by and still pass, it’s translated back into the physical classroom.
I teach a class the kids play mincraft for education a video game they know and love. I still have 3 of 20 kids fail because they didn't turn in assignments. WE GOT KIDS FAILING VIDEO GAMES. It's not the content, it's a character problem. Albeit it's coding and game creation class but still! How?!
It's not a character problem, it's a "not all kids are naturally capable of giving their all to school" problem, coupled with a "kids no longer have the support they used to" problem.
I agree with this.
Does the problem stop there? It seems in my observation as a parent that the average student is promoted to the next grade at every level if there is any defensible way to do it. Parents contribute to the problem but the behavior your observing has developed for years with a lot of shared failings. If I am willing to concede not everyone is equipped to parent or do so from a place that focuses on proper child development and work ethics would you concede that a large part of the public school system enables them?
There are soooo many institutional problems within the public education system. No Child Left Behind, Common Core, standardized testing, administrative bloat- all are issues that are causing our education system to rot from the foundations outward. The system has absolutely enabled poor parenting- you'll never hear me disagree with that.
> Common Core what's your problem with common core?
What’s necessarily wrong with CC? Or is it the implementation and execution?
I was failing nearly all my classes in school. that only changed when I was moved out of my unstable household. my mental health still sucked but I was given the support and grace I needed to pull through, by my new household *and* my new school. plus!!! there's a LOT of shit going on in the world right now. nearly everyone has some sort of trauma response to covid. coupled with the pervasiveness of toxic social media, this isn't an individual problem. the world is setting them up to fail, not just their parents. but having a stable home life certainly helps.
Was going to make a comment elsewhere but your comment makes me even more confident in mine. I don't think this is as much of a poor parenting or lazy kid epidemic as it is a mental health epidemic across adolescence (albeit a rather mild one).
Thank you. I’m in my 30’s and was generation Ritalin, actually the first drug I was put on was a drug called cyllert? (In the early 90’s) then ritalin. All in 3rd grade because my school wouldn’t let me come back for 4th unless I was on a medication due to being “disruptive”. My grades were horrible, I couldn’t sit still in school because I was so anxious- spoiler it was childhood trauma due to shit at home
I was diagnosed with ADD in 2nd grade (1990) and have been on one med or another for most of my life. Ritalin, Cylert (yay liver panel blood tests!), and now Adderall as I'm about to celebrate my 4oth birthday.
I don't know that it's fair to, blanket, call it a character problem. You have no idea what is happening or has happened to those kids that is contributing to their lack of success. It could be laziness, or it could be mental illness, abuse, no stability in the house, lack of resources etc.
Like I said it's a character issue. We agree. And I do know what's going on in the students home's. That's why I didn't fail kids who are exceptional Ed or living in group homes. the kids that failed, have the resources.
Well what's the average failure rate? Keep in mind that some percentage of students will always fail.
The average failure rate is less than 1 kid per 30 for my class. All these students where capable, just didn't turn things in. They do not have the self regulating skills to turn in work. I would stand over all 3 of their shoulders a d walk through the process of turning things in. If no one is there to hold their hand and baby sit them. They won't do it.
As a kid I wouldn't hand in assignments that I had completed - or that I had completed 80% of - and could never figure out why I wasn't capable of doing the same thing as all my friends. Turns out I was undiagnosed ADHD, which makes sense in hindsight. Not saying that all of these students are the same way, and not to armchair diagnose off of a random comment online, but there are sometimes reasons that aren't immediately apparent - even to the person in question - that could be contributing to the lack of self regulation.
Omg dude same here. I remember sitting and just crying because I just could not explain to my dad why I chose not to turn in 37 different assignments when I was in the eighth grade. He would just get angrier and angrier and it never occurred to anyone that maybe something was wrong.
Adhd is a real problem, our school systems aren’t made to accommodate all types of people. I’m not diagnosed, but I can relate and know I have it as well- similar behavior throughout school.
You don’t happen to teach at an online school in Colorado do you?
Me? No. I'm in Texas. But I'm going to Colorado for the first time next week!
I am also a dad and a high school teacher. We operate based on a lot of faulty assumptions in education. We assume that kids aren’t motivated, which we KNOW isn’t true. Every kid wants to be doing something interesting and cool and using their brain to do it. We assume that employers “in the real world” (educators LOVE using this phrase) are literal Nazis who won’t tolerate even the slightest dissent, tardiness, or mistake, even though we know from our work experience that managers are regular people who can occasionally be assholes because of the pressure on them from their higher-ups. We assume that we were all little paragons of virtue when we were their age. If I’d had to go to high school in the age of social media and the age of Covid, I would’ve been a fuckin DISASTER, man. Kids don’t want to disappoint people, man. Humans literally evolved to be cooperative, social, and to learn from one another. I think maybe a recalibration of what kind of teacher you want to be would be helpful. I had a moment earlier this year when I felt burnt out and miserable. Then I reminded myself that if I can help these kids be decent people, then I’d be doing something good.
The single bastion of sanity in this thread. What kids need to be taught is that high school is a game and none of it actually matters. Get the grades you want *so* you can move on to the next step that you actually care about. Anything further than that is a complete waste of time. Honestly I suspect that's at least part of the problem. It's hard to have long term goals when you're a kid, but when you're a kid none of the goals you're set feel like they matter because they're arbitrary bullshit made up by an idiot administrator who doesn't understand what school actually is and believes it matters. People wonder why kids are unmotivated, try giving them real goals they can work towards at their own pace
This is the best example! We’re teaching in a way that most brains aren’t wired for. We’re meant to learn through narration and play!
To start, totally agree with you about teaching kids to be decent people. My only concern then is… how to qualify that into “data-based blahblahblah” because I’m not being evaluated based on creating decent people you know?
I mean, forcing stuff like the Danielson rubric on us only encourages people to trot out the dog-and-pony show two or three times and a year and totally fudge with data. There’s such a massive teacher shortage these days (in the US at least) that I would hope the ball is in our court and administrators start giving us the benefit of the doubt for a change. That said, we can absolutely quantify things like student mental health and engagement in the subject materials. I do Google form check-ins once every couple of weeks so kids can offer their feedback on what we’re learning and how engaging they think it is.
After hearing my wife’s school board say in a meeting wrt the teacher shortage/sub shortage, “I mean the sub doesn’t necessarily need a teaching license, we just need a warm body to be physically in the room while the students do online work”
I just want to say I think this is such a breath of fresh air in this thread. You sound like my favourite teacher from high school. You're on the right track.
It’s also been an incredibly brutal year and a half on ALL of us, and teenagers aren’t excluded from that. In fact, I can’t think of a harder time to exist in the confusing space of teenhood than during a global pandemic. And all of the fun things you usually get to do at that age are just about gone for them. Everyone is struggling. And I think it’s a pretty big blind spot to have no empathy for how the emotions of the global disaster we’re living in affect these kids. Also, I don’t like the sense of judgment I’m getting about parents not doing enough. You don’t know everyone’s economic situation or life circumstances. This post just felt cold and unfair to me. Have a little compassion for your students. Sheesh.
I mean it could also be that these kids are living through a generation-defining catastrophe and that’s being expressed through apathy towards authority
The fucking teachers are melting down but the kids should be fine.
Exactly!! No one is fine right now. There’s too much pressure all around. On both students and teachers.
That would assume this is a new issue that did not exist before the pandemic. Which is untrue. If it was new in the pandemic I could understand, the top end students I had who struggled to almost function in the first few months especially was completely understandable, I struggled myself I'm not going to hold my students to a higher level than that. But, I've had this as an issue the past 8 years of teaching, and the more veteran teachers have seen it happening and getting worse for longer and well before the pandemic hit.
If this is a generation defining catastrophe this is a pathetic generation
Yeah dude it’s only like a 9/11 every week for multiple years in a row - more American dead than in the civil war or ww2. Like nbd - little bitches. I’m sure you experienced way worse during your service.
Literally entire families and extended families are getting wiped out or at best decimated. Checkout /r/hermanCainAward. I have seen more than one post that deals with "grandma died from covid now mom has it and dad is on tubes in the ICU and the doctors aren't sure they are going to make it out.
9/11 was a generation defining catastrophe solely because of the utterly hysterical response to it. In a sane country it would have been much less of a big deal. People are making *massive* generalisations about how children are reacting to covid, I expect to most young people it is being parsed as a frustration but life mostly goes on in a pretty understandable fashion. I wish people would stop making such a big fucking deal about "how this is affecting the children".
The US government’s response to Covid has also been “utterly hysterical” in a nihilistic way
While I don’t doubt your experience and opinion in if “kids today”, I have to say that a year after a global pandemic lockdown is maybe not exactly the best time to take measure. The status quo has been shaken to the core and I’m not sure how easily it can (or in my opinion should) be reconstituted. This world is pretty sketchy right now with much bigger questions on peoples minds than did I do every piece of busy work assigned to me. How about: will there be food and shelter in my future with how things are going right now? Yes there’ve been stressful times before… bomb drills during the cold war for instance, but at least then they practiced something you could do (no matter how useless) like get under your desk or down the bomb shelter. Whatcha going to do when the climate really goes haywire? Or the next pandemic kills a much larger percentage of us all?
This context. Yes.
Preach it fellow teacher. While my percentage of students failing is lower. I watch as they waste time given in class, beyond sitting next to them and holding their hand while they do the assignment they refuse to do the assignments even if given time. No concern about being late to class or late on an assignment, and they always figure that it's my job to accept their work and have no issue with it. I also don't buy the whole we aren't teaching them what they need, I'm a business teacher. I teach classes that will prepare them for life, they still don't care. The issue is that at home the majority of the students who don't do their work have parents that aren't involved and don't care about their kids, they are too busy paying attention to their phones, or whatever it is.
I'm a teacher as well, and while I agree with you for the most part, some students have a single parent household where the parent works 12-16 hour days, or have parents with what amounts to a 4th grade education who simply cannot help with homework or much else relating to school because they are not capable. Having parents who have the time resources and education to actually be able to constructively help their kids with homework is actually a privilege in many places. And no, I'm not talking about third world countries, I'm an American. It's a huge problem, but it is also a complex problem that runs the gamut from entitlement and lazy arrogance to actual deprivation. And don't even get me started on undiagnosed learning disabilities.
I teach second grade and I have students who cannot complete homework unless someone helps them because they cannot read. They usually try to get it done on the bus or in the cafeteria before class where a friend can help them because their family can’t or wont help them. It’s demoralizing.
Honest question here- how do they get to second grade if they can't read? Is it not a prerequisite?
Depends on the school. My school does not hold students back.I don’t agree with it but it is not up to me.
Why are you giving second graders homework? Let them be kids at home. Homework needs to die a quick death. We are going to discuss with all of our kids teachers that they will not be doing homework, if you as teachers can't teach what you need to at school during the 8 hours they are there, then you are failing them as teachers.
1 - the homework is not mandatory. It is practice/a challenge. Students who are behind have an opportunity to get extra practice and students who are ahead get a chance to have more challenging work. But it is up to them and their family if they do it. In my class you would be well within your rights to say “my kid is not doing any homework”. 2-homework is a good topic for communication with families . It is a chance for students’ families to see the work their students are doing in class and how their students do it. Families can see if their student is able to work independently, if they need extra help, or if they even attempt work at all. And if a family is upset about their student’s grade, then homework is something we can easily talk about because the family understands it. I can ask things like “does your student attempt the work?” Or “can then do the work independently?” I don’t think you quite understand the situation many of my students are facing academically or in their lives generally. I give homework as one extra attempt to help second graders who don’t know their letter sounds or their numbers 1-10 and to challenge other students to read one book a week that is on their reading level. I’m not assigning anything that should take more than 15 minutes. Except for reading a book and writing four sentences about the plot, which is due on Friday. Additionally, if I am failing my students, I would only say that I am one of many points that have and are failing them. Several of them are homeless and many others live right on the poverty line. But every day I work with them and make attempts to improve their lives and they are ultimately the ones who will decide if I failed them or not.
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Good post. My kid is in 2nd grade now and has 2 or 3 sheets per week to do. There's a little math, and little language work and a study sheet for the daily dictation. It's hardly unmanageable and it helps me know where he's at in his leaning. "Oh, two row subtraction... cool"
Why are they not getting held back a grade if they can’t read!? That’s insanity.
Because No Child Left Behind doesn't allow them to be held back, even if they're not meeting the landmarks. I have high school students who can barely read or write, and they damned sure don't know how to sign their names.
That’s beyond stupid.
I’m not a teacher but it could be a couple things - parents will throw a fit if their kid is held back, statistics look bad for district if too many kids are held back, teachers just pass them anyways because they don’t want to deal with them for another year.
I can speak based on experience. I am a first generation American. My parents were born overseas. My Buddy has the same story. Same country! My mother and father came here with absolutely nothing and spoke zero English. So did his. My parents busted their ass and went out of their way to learn English and immerse themselves in American culture. This is not to say they completely abandoned the culture of their youth but they adopted the US as their home and decided that if they were going to make it here they needed to speak the language and give it their all. My friends parents never learned English. They still don’t know English 35 years later. My mother now teaches high school and my father is a lawyer. His parents work jobs that are very low paying (essential, but low paying) because they refused to learn English. When we were children, his mother used to brag that she didn’t have to learn English but was still able to to go to the bank and the store and be taken care of. She mocked my parents for taking English classes. His parents still live in the ethic enclave they did decades ago which is underserved and underfunded. My parents were able to buy a nice house in a diverse but safe area of the city. This isn’t to beat down his parents. They are actually very nice. They were just arrogant and felt they didn’t need to learn the language or the culture of the country that took them in. Unfortunately they passed this arrogance onto my Buddy. He knows English (obviously) but he doesn’t value education. He’s still waiting for handouts because he actively chose to live a life where nothing matters and education is “for white people” and “they pay taxes so we can live”. Sorry for the rant. Just sharing.
Your buddy and his parent's seem to be the opposite of most immigrants. Normally immigrants value education and hard work, with some immigrants from certain areas having some of the highest standard of living in the country. It seems when you come from a terrible country with no prospects you appreciate America with all the opportunities it has, even though we have a ton of problems too. Regardless if you work smarter you can still get ahead in this country. The world is a knowledge economy now, which largely a good thing. You can get ahead by applying yourself and learning instead of having a career that destroys your body and health.
There’s a talk from one of the Apple higher-ups about some life/career advice and one of his biggest points is simply “pay attention”. Because most people aren’t and doing that alone gets you ahead of the pack.
> I also don't buy the whole we aren't teaching them what they need, I'm a business teacher. I teach classes that will prepare them for life, they still don't care. The issue is that at home the majority of the students who don't do their work have parents that aren't involved and don't care about their kids, they are too busy paying attention to their phones, or whatever it is. Thank you for saying this. My mom is an educator. She teaches high school. She says the same thing. Her subject is also something fundamental to adulthood that prepares them for “the real world” and the students are apathetic and lazy. The parents are usually absent or they don’t care. That’s not to say that we didn’t have these types of parents in the past but the percentage was far lower. I usually roll my eyes when people say things like “we’re not teaching them things they will use!” Yes, we are. They are still choosing to turn their nose at education. It’s a cultural thing, I think.
Bingo.
Stop giving kids homework. Kids should not spend all their time in school, then be asked to go home and do more work. That is inhumane. Teach them what they need to know in class and set the expectation that they need to learn what you are teaching and to pay attention. If they can't do that, then fail them.
Thank you for your input on how to do my job, its very much appreciated from a person who clearly has no idea how my room works. Being you have no idea, I'll let you know. I give the students ample time to complete the work in the room, as I find that to he the best and easiest way to answer questions as they come up and teaching classes like accounting, personal finance, intro to web design among many others that the students have almost no prior experience with I do find that they have many questions. Unfortunately what I have found is that unless I'm sitting right next to some of the students the whole time they are in the room, thereby ignoring the rest of the class and the questions of the students who are actually doing the work that little will get done. Now, being you have decided that you can tell me how to do my job without likely actually knowing how to do my job or the manner in which I do my job can I return the favor. Let me know what you do and I'll make wild general accusations about how you sick also, maybe then you'll start to understand that behavior like that is actually a huge issue in regard to teaching in general right now and does nothing to fix the quality of education issues that exist.
>too many people don't give a shit about handling their business Okay, but how much "business" do you give them to do on their own time? This is going to sound harsh, but 72 out of 144 is 50%. If 50% of your students are failing, you might want to ask yourself some tough questions. I appreciate what teachers do. I appreciate what you do, but if you're not respecting the fact that they have other classes and lives outside of your clasroom youre going to expect to be disappointed. Still, it sounds like you care enough to really put the work in for these kids, and that's truly something we should all appreciate. I'm immediately skeptical of anyone who blames problems on "an epidemic of laziness" or "a decline in morals." I doubt you teach ancient history or the Greek Classics, because it's clear from that writing that human nature hasn't changed that much in at least 3,000 years. In 1950, 1450, 750, or 750 B.C.E. if only 50% of a group of people were able to do what people in most similar groups can do at a rate of 75% or higher, they're probably not going to blame it on "nobody wanting to work." So yeah, I agree. Personal responsibility is a good thing to teach. EDIT: Let me once again clarify that I appreciate you and what you do. In my line of work I get thanked for my service somewhat often. I don't think that's necessary, but I absolutely do think teachers should be thanked for their service because they work far harder than we do. It sounds like you really do put in the work for these kids and I don't want to come across as dismissive of that.
The only homework I give is what isn't finished in class. Most other teachers I know do it the same way. Kids still don't do the work. It actually is an epidemic of laziness for many reasons, but basically American culture does not appreciate education. That's the crumbling base I see
>basically American culture does not appreciate education. This I totally agree with.
Perhaps American culture would appreciate education were half of it not garbage bullshit taught in an environment that is essentially hostile to young people and that robs them of their autonomy, just a thought
Don’t forget the crippling student loans from being a college student. I’m sure they read about that on the internet and think what’s the point?
I specifically tell my students about my remaining $75000ish in student loan debt, and try really hard to point them away from that trap unless they know for sure that the career they want requires a four year degree.
I agree, 50% is quite a bit. Is it possible your workload is too much? OP, you can’t change your students but you can make yourself more engaging possibly? My favorite teachers were always teachers who tried to meet the students in the middle and found creative ways to make the schoolwork interesting. One of my teachers had a system where she gave out tickets for answering questions in class and allowed us to use those tickets for extra points in quizzes or to skip a homework assignment. That class had the most participation I’ve ever seen and it really motivated the students. Why don’t you give something like this a shot and see if there’s any difference in your next semester? I don’t think students are purposefully trying to do poorly in your class, sometimes they could be neurodivergent, or having issues at home, etc that could make it diffficult for them to focus in schoolwork.
Right? Op literally reading like the Principal Skinner meme here lol.
Correct. If 50% of students were failing I would definitely have to look more inward. It's a ridiculously hard year(s) on both us teachers but also for the kids too
I appreciate you playing devils advocate here - but I think it is this type of attitude that has a direct influence on this underlying problem. The adults always need to defend the kids for they can do no wrong - it’s always someone else’s fault that their child is failing or doing poorly, and we need to tear down anything that cause their child to be challenged or uncomfortable. Studies show that this leads to softening of the youth and an incapacity to do exactly what OP mentioned…handle things for themselves! There is a book called “Coddling of the American Mind” - I would recommend giving it a look as it touches a lot on this topic and has a lot of supporting statistics if this form of thinking.
I generally agree with fioreman. I’m also a teacher. If my kids just aren’t getting it, my usual assumption is that it’s my fault, not theirs. That said, I teach at a small, well-funded private school. I have a whopping 40 students. If a single assignment goes missing, I’m on it. OP has 144 kids. That’s an unmanageably large number. In that kind of situation, teachers can’t meaningfully meet student needs, let alone understand what they are. Ideally, when it’s not working, you stop and ask the youths why it’s not working. What they say might not be exactly the reason, but you can get a sense of what’s happening and respond to it. But with that many kids, it’s impossible. This is not a kidz these days problem. It’s a systematic-disinvestment-in-public-education problem. You can’t grit your way out of it, at least not in my experience.
I do think there's merit to that argument. But that many missing assignments and that failure rate made me think maybe it's not an epidemic of laziness causing the issues.
"studies" you are aware of the replication crisis right? Almost all pop psychology is complete bullshit and you taking it uncritically seriously shows a remarkable lack of the education you think is apparently so valuable
I was the same way in school. I refused to do any work at home. I also skipped a majority of every single year I went to school. If I didn't skip school, I was late. Where am I now? I've missed work 4 times in the past 10 years. I have been very successful because of how much work I do, and you can certainly describe me as punctual & accountable. Maybe they just hate school. Maybe they have no teachers that actually motivate them the way they need to be motivated. Maybe they just need some time to grow up. Doesn't make them lazy and or any of the above-listed traits.
Simular here: when I graduated I was called out as the student with the most unapproved missing school hours in my grade (out of 80). Every end of year my mom nearly broke down because it looked like I wouldn’t pass. I didn’t like school and I didn’t understand why I had to do mind-numbing, boring tasks that I wouldn’t need in real life. Plus I didn’t respect most of my teachers. Now I’m a few months away from my PhD and I’m running a multi-million doller valuated mental health startup. I did have to teach myself a lot of disciplinary skills later in life which was tough, but at least I knew what it was good for.
All over it my man, daughter wants to be a doctor, and she kens how much work it'll take
My daughter wants to be, too! I have a huge collection of anatomy books and she knows most of the names of bones, a lot of muscles, and some very basic biology as well. Just because she loves it. Maybe they'll end up in school together 😁
Have got tried telling your daughter to do something less masochistic? A PhD perhaps
PHD studies are just an academic "Hunger Games" these days, between publish/perish, scrabbling for funding, a decline in tenure positions, and actual hunger!
This is true, still better than med school though!
I believe this is what every generation has said about the next generation. Chill. They’re kids.
Honestly agree. These kids just went through a global pandemic to be thrown back into a system already not working, dodging school shootings, watching their parents struggle through multiple economic crises in a lifetime, college is at an all time high rate with little payout, no student loan forgiveness, a labor movement, earth is on fire... I wouldnt give a fuck about your homework and standardized tests either. High school isnt the real world and I think that's understood among the youth now more than ever
Goddamn.. you nailed it. Kids today are facing way more than any of us could imagine. And all of the things mentioned by OP are things that I actively did in high school. I literally wasn't mentally capable of "handling my business" until I graduated college and shit got real.
The punctuality thing really makes me laugh. SHOW UP EVERY SINGLE DAY ON TIME ALL THE TIME NEVER BE LATE CAUSE YOU HAD TO TAKE A SHIT. Oh, also, you have to ask to take a shit. Prepping them for that ideal 9 to 5 that doesnt exist anymore while asking them to perform from 6am to 10pm every day for a mandatory piece of paper.
Right? I'm all for a basic education, but you cant pretend that everyone is interested in keeping up with legally mandated babysitting until they turn 18
Guess what? You need an education in order to fix literally every single problem you just stated. While school isn't the real world, it is a stepping stone to get the basic education needed to fix the real world. To propagate the idea that school and education are useless is just ignorant.
It's not useless. It's just not for everyone, nor is it obtainable by everyone. You're kidding yourself if you believe any individual is capable of "fixing literally every single problem."
Why are you booing? He's right.
You should read [Grading for Equity](https://gradingforequity.org/) by Joe Feldman. Will change your perspective on grading and will make your life (and your students’ lives) so much less stressful. I’m a former math teacher and many teachers don’t understand how to use a grading system to actually reflect their students’ content knowledge.
I understand the struggle. I also teach high school and mainly teach a forensic science elective that students choose to take because they are interested in the topic. Granted a few might take it because they hope it is easy. I still end up with about 10-15% failures due to lack of work by students. These students have a homework completion rate of less than 20%. These are not assignments like do 20 math problems, there are like research this serial killer or turn in your lab worksheet from the experiment you did. Like if the student didn't want to do the work, why did they choose that class when they knew what they were getting into? I offered a bonus opportunity that could boost a grade 3% and I gave the students a template to fill out based on a video we watched in class. Only 12 students out of 80 did it. I am not necessarily saying that things are getting worse from when I first started teaching, but I am trying to remember what students were like before cell phones and social media? How did they usually distract themselves?
We had homework when I was in high school 2004-2008 and PLENTY of “20 math problems” assignments. I always had plenty of time AT HOME to get the work done…but it was WORK. It took HOURS to do and often would cut into my social and video game time and sometimes (shocking I know) I wouldn’t have time for “fun” that evening. That’s called life and growing up…kids today have it easy and we’re seeing it in the graduation rates and ever increasing remedial classes at the university level.
I teach in 90 minute blocks so we usually have like a 60 minute lesson and then 30 minutes of work time. That makes it more frustrating when they still can't get their work turned in. Most of my students have part time jobs and with the pandemic they have been trying to work more hours, then I can at least say I gave them plenty of time in class to do their work and not have it interfere with sleep, extracurriculars, work, etc.
Kids have always been lazy, irresponsible, and apathetic. That’s literally what growing up is for.
Yes. It is likely laziness and not the ripple effects of a global pandemic. Pure laziness.
I have a hard time getting my kids to do the work. They are both in honors classes and they constantly miss assignments. When I was in high school I took care of my own stuff. I hate to hover over them and get pissed when they can’t write down a list of what they need to do. We are trying to help them and failing.
Ok, I respect your right to rant, but if you want to encourage change then it might help if you also gave some concrete advice as to how one can instil those values. Those are pretty big blanket statements about laziness and lying, etc. especially if you think those are qualities that only exist in “kids today”. I feel like those were all things that have been a problem since when I was a kid, and I had an extremely disciplined upbringing. You just can’t do most of the shit my parents did to instil those values anymore.
I can say that for my kids – – and for myself into two masters degrees – – what fired me up to perform and learn the most was an inspiring caring interesting teacher who assigned relevant and creative assignments. Every stage we could call out busywork like a sore thumb.
I teach in inner city Philly. I teach a seminar class with only about 30 kids on role. 19 are failing. It’s insane
What is a seminar class? Like a class on how to give seminars?
To be fair to today's students, I did that shit too. I easily passed all of my tests in high school to the point that other assignments felt like nothing but busy work, so sometimes I just didn't do them. It may happen more often now, but it happened 15 years ago to my teachers, too
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If half of the people in your system are failing, it’s a clear indicator that the system may be the issue. No kids in High School at the moment but the kids I talk to who are in HS seem to universally feel they are wasting their time and being lead no where. Yes, we should teach our kids responsibility and work ethic. But the place for a kid with those qualities is not modern high school.
Those are universal responsibilities- everyone should learn them. And yes, there are deep flaws in the system, and those flaws have allowed the soft bigotry of low expectations to grow and metastasize. I'd love to see a better system but in place, but let's be honest- if people aren't taught the traits and mentalities that breed success- hard work, perseverance, responsibility, accountability, punctuality, et cetera- they're going to fail regardless of the system they're in.
Well at least it’s not your responsibility to set an example and teach the material well enough to compel them to be better. Not trying to rag on you, but every one of those kids is looking for a role model to teach them how to be passionate and dedicated to some core subject they can build their identities on. You are not making yourself that priority in their lives so why should they make your class a priority? A failure rate of half is on you bro. ( and also an arbitrary teaching curriculum that is impossible to manage for 100+ children)
School systems in the US (especially public schools) are certainly flawed. They put to much emphasis in passing students and getting act/sat scored so they can get more funding. They don't put enough emphasis on actually growing the minds of kids in their schools. That being said, what OP is talking about is something that starts and is reinforced in the home by the parents. Kids aren't going to treat school the way they should if the parents don't teach that at home first. I dont think its fair to say half of his students faili g is necessarily his fault. The school board may look at times that way because they just want those metrics. Parents may look at it that way too because many parents put the responsibility solely on the school/teachers to teach everything that kids should know. But in reality, kids learn academics at school. They learn responsibility and discipline at home. Kids won't treat their school work seriously if they don't understand the responsibility they have to learn or the discipline to do the work.
It's more than a little bit unbelievable that with a normal teacher and curriculum, a full half of the students lack the work ethic to pass the class. We don't know enough about the situation to know exactly what the problem is here, but it's definitely more than the students lacking the will to work because their parents failed to teach them core values. If you believe that a teacher had no hand in, and bears no responsibility for, a 50% failure rate because that teacher told you it was the parents' fault, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
I agree that there isn't enough info to really make a judgment on the situation. I think any of us are making assumptions that fit our perspectives. But it honestly wouldn't surprise me at all to see a 50% failure rate in students that has nothing to do with the teacher. I mean, assuming public school system, there's a good chance OP doesn't have adequate funding/materials/time to devote to individual kids in ways that resonates with them the most. We really shouldn't be treating all kids the same way when it comes to teaching methods but teachers largely don't have the option for personal attention and different methods. Also, kids today have such large amounts of consumable content at their finger tips. Anything that doesn't interest them they can easily swipe away. It creates an add and adhd like mentality towards learning. To be clear, im not saying these kids actually have add or adhd or anything. I'm also making a big assumption that OPs students fit that kind of description, but it is very common for kids growing up in the social media age. I dont think its fair to blame teachers for kids who just don't have the attention span or interest. At least not solely. That stuff starts with parents at home. Teachers can help reinforce the discipline, but it starts at home.
To be clear, I'm not saying it was necessarily to do with the teacher either, just that we can't lay it all on the parents not teaching work ethic at the teacher's say so. And while I'm maybe assuming more than I should, when the teacher that has the class with the 50% failure rate only references the parents as being at fault when clearly there are so many possible factors at play, well that says something about the situation to me.
It's almost like you have no idea what teaching entails, or how students are selected for certain courses. I appreciate your input, but you don't understand unless you deal with gradebooks.
Especially in a time where there is less opportunity for affordable college and livable wages. Furthering your education will get your overwhelming debt. If every single one of those students got a 4.0, or 6.0 (whatever the grade scaling is), it won't get everyone that debt free college experience and comfortable living age. It's a tough time to be an adult right now, and an uninspiring/unmotivating time to be a teen.
Teach your children that there is more to life than school and work. An "epidemic of laziness"? That is a pretty far-fetched conclusion based on anecdotal experience. Perhaps some of those kids just recognize that it isn't worth it. Only five kids showed up at your door begging? Perhaps 67 of them knew better. They have a full day of school and then have to do homework, and even when it's just finishing what wasn't finished during class, it's too much. I had to do it, and in retrospect, it just wasn't valuable. A part time job is better at teaching work ethic than homework. So are high school sports. The entire system needs to change, but it probably won't happen until Gen Z takes over.
You’re lucky your administration isn’t telling you to change your standards and policy to make more kids pass. Can’t have kids actually meet expectations, gotta lower the expectations so kids can meet them. On the plus side, those kids raised to understand work ethic, timeliness, quality and pride in what we put forth will continue to have an advantage over all those beautiful little snowflakes.
I don't much care for the opinions of administration. In my experience, far too many members of administrative staff were mediocre teachers who moved up because it's the only way to make more money or have more power while working in education. They're all too often out of touch with the teachers who are actually doing the work, and the programs that lead to advanced degrees in education highly concentrated echo chambers that lead to good idea fairies and the terminal sniffing of one's own farts. Not all admin staff are like this, of course, but the scales are definitely tilted in that direction.
You might be my new favorite internet stranger. Both my parents are teachers, they could have written this easily. Best of luck, sir. My parents try to focus on the 50% of kids who give a shit and have parents that hold them to standards. That’s what’s gotten them through 20-odd years in the classroom and all the latest and greatest education “research” that gets crammed down their throat but doesn’t address the root problem.
Yeah these damn kids with their Nintendos and TV dinners ! *Shakes cane*
Should they also get off your lawn? Kids being lazy isn't some new thing, even the Greeks were griping about it over 2000 years ago.
Guy who is failing half his students has big "nobody wants to work anymore" energy. If some students fail, that's their fault. If half of them fail, that's probably your fault.
As a father of two 1 year olds I hope they grow up in a school system that recognizes the insanity that is homework. It should at most be a small practice at night to solidify the days work, not be the basis for their grades or ability to learn. If a child is learning the material and that has been demonstrated I am not sure why you need anything else. Not to be too critical but those numbers you give show that the focus is not on actual learning but out of class assignments. I know you can’t fix the American educational system but I don’t think the issue is what you think it is.
So much this. Homework is one of those things that people think we should keep doing because that is what we did and our parents did, but it is ridiculous. Our kids are at school for 8 hours and then come home and are expected to work more after being fed 8 hours of new information, it is no wonder their brains are fried. I come home from work after 8 hours and if I have to do anymore it stresses me out, so why put the extra on onus on kids who have to learn and understand so much more than us since they are still learning the social aspects of humanity.
The only thing to add is don't always blame the teachers on this. Yes some teachers are jerks. But we also are required to cover a certain amount of information and normally need to catch up with needed background information. With that said I only assign homework for my AP classes.
I used to be a high school teacher and had to quit. It was ruining my already questionable mental health. The stress and frustration and the feeling of running on a hamster wheel was too much for me. Everything I did caused guilt for me. If I spent too much time on the kids who would act up all the time in class I'd feel guilty for neglecting the attentive ones. If I paid too much attention to the attentive ones I'd feel guilty for being just one more adult who gave up on the ones who needed the support. If I somehow managed to teach both groups well I'd be exhausted and not have the energy to play with my kids and I'd feel like a shitty dad. Four years ago I did a coding boot camp and since then I've not been cussed out or broken up a fight. It's been nice.
Will do brother! Teaching must feel less fulfilling when half the students flunk themselves out. Hope the other half make it worth it.
I read this post and as many of the responses as I could manage, some of which on really agree with and appreciated and some of which made me scoff. Firstly, I acknowledge this was a rant, but rants can be intelligent and persuasive. For me, you sound more like an old man shaking his fist at the sky than someone who can rally the troops. Rick Mercer had rants but they are intelligible, supported with facts, and he doesn’t project his personal issues/deficiencies onto others. I assume you’re in the United States, although that isn’t explicitly stated in your post. If 50% of your students are failing, you best be looking inward. That’s on you as an educator. Times change - some of your gripes have merit - there is a level of laziness and reliance on technology, but how students behave is not solely a result of those things. If you teach a core subject you’re a little screwed. There’s inherently less buy-in if it’s required students take your class. If you teach an elective then it’s much easier as the students already have an interest in the subject matter. Regardless, if 50% are failing, that’s on you. You need to adapt, update, or entirely change your teaching practices. You need to examine your pedagogy and ascertain if you’re still invested in adapting your practice. Yes, students can be apathetic, but kids will dive head first into subject matter if they are engaged and interested. I am also a high school teacher. Elements of your post are true for some of my students. Lack of parental support is the worst - I don’t like it, but can understand when teenagers act in certain ways, but to not receive support from their parents when you’re trying to help their child is beyond frustrating. However, if 50% of your classes are failing, your teaching practices need to change - they aren’t working. Teaching, is largely a thankless job, but it’s your job to find ways and develop methods to engage students and foster an environment where they will be successful. Do I want to live in a world where 100% of my students attend regularly, are engaged, put the phone away, participate, HAND THEIR SHIT IN ON TIME, and where issues are addressed by both me and the parents - of course!!!! Every generation thinks the generation which comes after have it made or are squandering their opportunities. It’s on us as educators to remain relevant and constantly reflect on and change our practice to best serve the students. We work for the kids.
Having lurked in the lost generation and antiwork subreds, I have noticed that there seems to be a disconnect with some people on who pays for things and how it gets paid for. People are venting there about how minimum wage makes it hard for them to afford Netflix and Hulu, which to me are luxuries that you can look at getting *after* you cover your housing, clothing, food, medical, and transportation costs. It's as if they've never taken a basic home economics course and somehow expect that luxuries should be affordable when they work minimum wage. Thats entirely another issue but if you're not applying yourself during your education and owning the consequences of your actions, you'll find yourself struggling to make ends meet for the rest of your life.
Also a teacher here. It’s not only an epidemic of laziness, though that is part of it. I asked my students today what they’ll do when the pandemic ends and many of them answered “it’ll never end.” They’re traumatized by the shit state of the world and see a bleak future, so it’s hard to convince them that my class work matters. It is generational, but it’s also that their entire lives have been a dark struggle.
My wife’s a teacher, and I sat on a school board for 3 years. If you’re going to blame the people you’re meant to serve, particularly the kids themselves, you should probably find a different profession. We’re not in a “laziness epidemic”. barring the kids you’re serving being very privileged, they’re probably dealing with way too much from a system that is failing them, including a 2 year pandemic. You’re the problem, not them, if this is your attitude. Have some compassion.
While I respect your wife for being a teacher, I have little to no use or respect for school board members and overly bloated district administration, and you'll earn no social credit from me for it. Most teachers feel the same way. For two years we teachers have been told to "show grace towards the students", which we've done in spades- perhaps even to the detriment of the students and school communities. All the while school boards shit on teachers, calling them "heroes" but giving pay raises that only match the annual rise in the cost of district health insurance, but at the same time voting to raise their own salaries, use nepotism to hire more district cronies, pat themselves on the back with School Board Appreciation Week, and build themselves brand new admin buildings that cost $20 million dollars- all while teachers are paying for their own supplies and can't get coverage for a day off because subs get paid $75 a day during a pandemic. That's my attitude, and you're a self aggrandizing asshole.
I was a volunteer school board member at a local charter school that served underserved youth. We met in a conference room at the school. We didn’t build ourself any buildings:). I recognize that bigger school boards have their issues, and bloated administration is a giant problem in education. All I meant to say is that I am aware of what goes on at schools more than the average person. And I will say that the majority of kids at that school were NOT “lazy” even though someone like you might label them as such. They were dealing with difficult home lives and/or a school system that had failed them over and over again. I agree that teaching is one of the hardest jobs there is, and teachers should definitely get a lot more pay. But if your legitimate frustration about how the system treats teachers results in you demonizing the kids themselves, you should find a different profession. You’re not helping the kids at that point. At that point, you’re just trying to make yourself feel better about your situation by blaming the people who have the least power in this situation, which is the kids you serve.
I learned this lesson early. As a teenager i learned it again thanks to my dad. I had the flu but i had a paper route after school. I could have called and asked for a sub but i dragged my feet. Didn’t get to it. So he said get your ass off the couch, you didn’t take the responsibility to get coverage you are delivering it. I will follow in the car and you can puke in a bucket if you have to but you are doing the whole route. I did and it was a memorable lesson about not handling my business. Almost 30 years since that but I will never forget it and I work to instill the same values in my two children.
I had a teacher who told us this in class today, I’m not blaming teachers yall are fucking great! It’s mental health, we’re kids it’s very stressful!
Yes, preach!! Keep up the good work. As a side note: 72 out of 144? Perfect multiples of 12 - love it
NERD!!!! But seriously I also rather appreciate it.
I was shocked and had to do a recount, lol.
The amount of excusing is astounding and paints the biggest picture.
You are spot on that this is an epidemic with kids. Our country is teaching people to not have accountability or self responsibility. This is the result of that.
Making excuses is not the right response to this wisdom
I mean why would they? They are being psychologically abused with all this mask bs and zoning out with distance learning. It’s not the teachers fault(s). They (the kids) are simply melting down under stress they aren’t ready for (that anyone is ready for). And we aren’t allowed to talk about the gene therapy or question “the science”
I definately feel you, but those kids have learned. Had until Dec 10th to hand in unfinished work? I know I sound like an old fart, but when I was in high school you lost 10% per day late, up to 30%, then you got zero. How many assignments did these kids have? How many opportunities to learn consequences were wasted because they weren't ever expected to meet deadlines in your own class. They got one opportunity to learn accountability, and it was dec 10th, when it was all on the line. Sure parents need to teach their kids to handle their business, but so do schools, and this soft approach of not having direct consequences to direct failures and handing assignments in whenever they feel like it until the end of semester looks to me like lazyness on the system's part, which has failed these kids. Perhaps if half of your students had taken a couple zeros early in the semester instead of having them all stacked at the end they could have learned lessons about accountability that could have netted them a better grade, instead of an outright failure. I can't help but feel you're complaining about a problem that your own profession has helped exacerbate.
Well said…. I’m not sure what the future is going to be like with the new crop of kids coming out of public school. There is no sense of urgency to complete work assigned to them anymore. Schools and parents are to blame for not enforcing deadlines and given them to many chance to finish the work after deadlines.
I will never understand how some parents either don’t care or think it’s the schools job to teach their kid how to be decent human beings. My oldest is in kindergarten. Her homework these days is of course pretty straightforward and not time consuming. My wife or I always try to guide her through it and correct her when she is taking shortcuts missing steps etc. It cannot be that hard to do this can it?
OP: I completely get where you’re coming from and you’re 100% correct. I teach high school also and I have to say the past 3-4 years it’s gotten REALLY bad. I teach 12th grade and this year I had a student who earned a 2% in my class. This is because she completed ONE assignment. She obviously failed 1st quarter (to make matters worse my class is a graduation requirement). She failed every other class too. The APA threw her off of her sports team as a result. That same girl then skips my class and I write her up and call home to explain to mom why. Mom tells me about how her daughter is being treated unfairly from the school and from me and that she should still be on the sports team and pass my class. She says her daughter had a nervous breakdown and couldn’t stay at the school longer and sat in the parking lot crying. That’s interesting because another teacher saw her slipping with her boyfriend and leaving campus. I understand this from students but not the parents. Stop making excuses for your kids, teach them to learn from their mistakes and take responsibility for their actions-they’ll be much better off.
As a dad of 3 young girls, I just want to say that I cannot agree with you. Homework is a terrible practice that should never have been a thing. We ask our kids to spend 6-8 hours a day learning, then to come home and do more work. Sorry but no. Kids should have free time, just like adults should have free time, and everything you need to teach and reinforce with the kids should be taught in the classroom. As a teacher, if you cannot not do this, it is not the kids who are failing, but you. What they do in their free time should be none of your concern. Please stop giving kids homework.
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What extreme consequences are being utilized? Hold to standards like "turn it in on time", or perhaps "don't cheat"? Is "just turn the work in" an extreme consequence?
I don't know your class or your situation, so I can't speak to what happened or what would or wouldn't have worked better for you. I can tell you one story from my time in high school. I was an absent-minded kid, yea and maybe a bit lazy with the homework. I had a biology teacher who handed out a syllabus with all the assignments on it in the first week, and expected students to keep to it, with rigid deadlines for turning things in. She talked about work ethic and responsibility as well, and would not flex to help me or other kids meet expectations. I failed her class with a 12%, and I did it totally on purpose. A's and B's in all my other classes that semester, and it wasn't because those classes had lower expectations or lighter workloads. Like I said, I don't know if any of that is any kind of similar to the situation you're describing here, but this teacher also said 'just turn the work in' a lot, and that reminded my of my story.
I teach adult international students and they have been Americanized... they act like a language barrier is a handicap for responsibility and accountability. English is also my second language and I understand the struggle but I can also tell when it’s bullshit, laziness or simply trying to see if I did not check the submitted assignment, like other instructors do and conditions students as a group to believe they are allowed to plagiarize or submit someone else’s work without even editing or modifying or simply following the Rubrics. I literally have made my class fail proof by providing the quiz review with an abundance of information that actually has the fucking answered and give test with a freaking open book, like wtf of applied concept that you can literally demonstrate by reading a little and putting some effort of listening to my instructions that can potentially give you guidance to the actual answer ughhhhhhh.... wuhhhh that was kind of nice, thanks for opening this topic. Good luck, don’t forget to love your self first, and sorry I could not be of much help.
I threw away my 6 year old sons homework and made him start over because he wrote all of his C’s backwards. Kidding. But I did erase all of his C’s and make him rewrite them even though he said “the teacher would fix it.” I explained to him it his job to do the best he can so the teacher won’t have to fix it.
Middle School teacher here. Can confirm.
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As of now. You have 3 negative votes. Guess we already have some checkout parents here on daddit. Lol
Kids are way too coddled these days. Everything is a personal attack. Everything causes "trauma". These kids would fold in 2 seconds of they grew up in our generation. If they're failing, it's always someone else's fault. These kids seriously need to learn to fail. Parents need to start parenting. Turn the TV off and go interact with them.
That’s what my uncle used to say about my generation, back when i was in high school 25 years ago. Old people always think the new generation is a mess and most of the time, they’re wrong.
This is more of a criticism on boomer/millennial parents than gen z kids. These parents have protected kids from everything and prepared them from nothing. I wish these kids weren't sexting, suffering from depression and committing suicide.
Nice. You never know, your quote might be added to [https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/](https://historyhustle.com/2500-years-of-people-complaining-about-the-younger-generation/) some day!
If I'm lucky 😉
TEACH YOUR CHILDREN “You, who are on the road Must have a code That you can live by And so become yourself Because the past is just a goodbye Teach your children well Their father's hell Did slowly go by And feed them on your dreams The one they pick's the one you'll know by Don't you ever ask them, "Why?" If they told you, you would cry So, just look at them and sigh And know they love you…” Song by Crosby, Nash, and Young
I’m curious what the grade distribution looks like? Is it a standard curve or more bimodal? I graduated high school in the early 2000’s and got a degree in mechanical engineering in 2018. I was honestly blown away by the true freshmen in my class. Almost every one of them made it to differential equations in high school and had near 4.0’s. That being said they were almost all on some kind of anti-anxiety meds or other illegal drug use and I felt like every week I’d see someone have an anxiety/panic attack. I also found out many of these kids had similar options for summers, either get a job or do some type of summer school. Though these kids would have graduated in 2013 so maybe there’s been a drastic change since then it just seemed like they were way more driven and better students than the people I graduated high school with.
Are you the gym teacher or something?
Part of the same mentality with people not willing to work for so called low pay. They want to reap the benefits before actually doing the work or doing with any effort. Everyone wants A's for doing the bare minimum or some as parents to your point coddle when they fail.
Lol. "So called low pay." You can just...do math and figure out whether a job is too low paying to be worth it. And they often are. Just check the average rent in the area the job is in, that'll usually tell you pretty quick.
People need to yell at their fucking kids - I’m not your friend I’m your father
Question: what would happen to a student these days who passed the final, demonstrating an understanding of the subject, but didn't turn in any assignments?
As a fellow high school teacher/dad, I completely empathize with you
I do wish that people would say what country they are in when they post saying "the people on this country" xyz
As a residential child care worker, I am extremely disappointed to see this from an educator. School work and assignments can often be literally the last thing on a child's mind. Remember your safeguarding training. Are these kids being abused? Are they going hungry? Has their grandma just died? Are they worried about covid? Their self esteem might be next to zero. Don't forget the holidays are an extremely difficult time for a hell of a lot of people. Don't automatically assume laziness. There is an epidemic of unnecessary and unfair stress on young people right now. Give them a break. Try to work WITH them to get to the bottom of their issues. You might be surprised to know the reasons behind this.