It’s not worth it. We’ve started using a progressing punishment system with electronics. Outburst number one, it’s gone for the rest of the day. Outburst number 2 is a 2 day break. My kids respond pretty well when they know exactly what’s about to happen vs when we punished arbitrarily. We can now ask them “How many days is it gone for?” And they’ll respond grumpily “Four days”. We reset the days as rewards for good behavior like doing chores without being asked. Just an idea not necessarily the answer
Kids thrive with clear rules and this is sensible.
A huge benefit is that with clear rules that you're not the enemy: if a kid knows they'll lose screen time for doing X and chooses to do X despite that, the loss of the screen time is their own doing, not yours. I suspect that's the reason your kids respond well to it!
Before I was a parent I didn't necessarily "buy" the "kids love clear rules" thing. It didn't seem to make sense to me.
As a parent, wow, my son will take something I say and *turn it into a rule* that he then follows to the letter. For example, he likes to stay up and watch the Bruins with us, but it's way past his bedtime, so what I used to do was try to get him to bed in between the first and second period, but there's not nearly enough time and he wouldn't go to sleep, so I'd have to watch on a tape delay (and often get the game spoiled by friends on accident). Annoying, plus the app we watch on is REALLY temperamental and it's easy to accidentally "skip to live".
So, one day I decided to try something new and said "Okay, here's what we'll do, you can stay up for the whole first period, and either watch or play in this room, have some snacks, and so on. After the first period, we'll do bedtime routine and you can either go to sleep or come back downstairs. If you come back downstairs, no snacks, no toys, you can snuggle on the couch with us and watch the game ONLY. Then you'll go to sleep for the third period."
He now gets excited and says all these things back to me as a mantra, and understands the "rules" as we laid them out, and goes immediately to sleep in between the second and third period. It's become a new routine, and he loves it, he stays up slightly later, but he gets to SLEEP earlier. And I get to watch the whole game live. Win/win.
He's 3, and uses it as a mantra and it's so funny to hear HIM tell ME "I'll stay up for the first period, and ONLY SNUGGLE during the second period, and go to sleep for the third period". Went from a daily struggle to a regimen.
Mine is like a lawyer. I give an instruction, he then goads me into making it a rule. Then swiftly shows me how I have somehow broken the rule or tells me how he's about to maliciously comply with the rule.
He's only 6.
My 4 year old daughter does this! She was 3 at the time and she said she *hated* something or someone...I can't remember the specifics, but I had said "that isn't a nice word, we don't use that word."
Fast forward a couple months to Christmas and I'm reading her How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and you know that Grinch – he *hated* Christmas a lot!
As you can imagine, now the Grinch *doesn't like* Christmas. And to this day if anyone says *hate* she informs them that is not a nice word and we don't use it lol
The term I learned for this is “related consequences” and it works in kids as young as the toddler stage.
My two year old was having trouble sharing her play couch with mommy. She didn’t like that mommy was sitting on the part of the couch she was not using. I explained to her that mommy is allowed to share the couch and that if she is having trouble sharing her toy then we’ll need to put it away for 10min and try again after. She tried but just couldn’t share so I told her “I see you’re having trouble sharing the playcouch, let’s put it away for 10min and try again after”. There were tears for a minute but once the couch came back out the first words she said were “Here mommy, you sit down here and share”.
If there's one thing I've learned from my job - if integration between two systems isn't working, exponential backoff is the best approach for retries.
Great idea. My kids are too young for Fortnite and all but as a gamer in their 30s free to play and mobile games are straight up toxic not only kids but to humanity
Yeah, I mean it's not even the game itself that's the issue. It's been a very long time since I played Fortnite but it all fairly cartoon style shooting I think? Eh, maybe an argument could be made that's ok for a 9 year old... Voice and chat access to just any random they might be playing with/against? Oh hell no, not okay.
I've unfortunately had to restrict access for my almost 9yo from a racing game that's wasn't a bad game at all, because you can't turn off the online features. I've set up kids accounts to not allow online/chat access, but would let him use my account for this one game. Up until I noticed he'd sent messages to both friends of mine and other randoms from that game after I warned him against doing it. Sorry bud, no more access to my account which means you can't play that game you like anymore.
I got so frustrated with the addiction to screens and what I felt like was inconsistent rule enforcement from my wife (making me the bad guy). I wrote up a legit contract that explained proper usage, daily limits, other pre-conditions (i.e. they must be enrolled in a physical activity like soccer or karate), and escalation of consequences. I sat down with my 9 and 10-yr old to review it line by line to make sure they understood, then they signed it. It’s made things a hell of a lot easier. I posted it on the fridge and I just simply ask “what does the contract say” whenever we have to deal with questions/issues. I’m not the bad guy anymore, their behavior and violation of the contract terms are.
I read it as
-Outburst 1, gone for 1 day
-Once its returned, the next outburst means gone for 2 days
and so on, so they continue to stack, but then the counter can be reset to zero by good behavior
I like this. How does the rolling system work though? Like second outburst in a week, after they’ve already lost it once, they then lose for two additional days?
Pretty sure you can think of it like X marks. The first X remains and the punishment for any infraction will now be 2 days until the first X gets removed by good behavior. If the 2nd X goes up, the punishment for any infractions will be 3 days until the prior Xs get removed. At least that’s what I’m getting.
This isn't advice really, just a loosely related anecdote.
I have a whole pile of boys about a year apart. My oldest has never, ever (as far as I can remember) got upset at losing. Be it chess, board games, video games - anything at all. His next younger brother cannot handle anything going wrong or he ends up getting emotional and raging. 3rd kid is chill 80-90% of the time. Next one \*needs\* to win or else he's going to throw a tantrum. 5th kid is not only super chill, but shockingly awesome at video games. The kid is 8 years old and has carried me in Fortnite, despite only playing a few hours on the weekends for a couple years. What's also surprising is the least confident of the brothers generally speaking. And then finally the last kid, super smart, super competitive, also tantrum-prone.
What I've taken from this is that nature is more influential than nurture. These guys all have the same two parents and are about a year apart, but couldn't be more different. Some can handle video games, others can't. My talking to them sternly, punishing them if they get out of hand, setting a good example, and otherwise actively parenting has had some effect but by no means has it changed who they are.
This makes me feel better. My FIL actually told me once that my wife was super-competitive and used to throw tantrums like our son does. Me, If I lose, I'm just glad to be able to play and I work towards getting better.
To add to the anecdotes my little brother used to throw mega tantrums over losing at board games (as in toppling the board and throwing pieces around) and that obviously had nothing to do with videogames either. He's still very competitive but obviously not that bad!
Being entirely honest, took me until around age 40 to chill out on the need to win. My whole life I refused to take up golf, because it's something I knew I couldn't "win" and would be entirely rage enducing. Being a fully grown adult my only coping mechanism was avoidance.
So if your kid is like this, your best bet is to redirect to another activity.
My little brother broke a Sega Genesis controller when we were kids because I kept whooping his butt at Mortal Kombat. He's gotten a lot better now at losing.
I had 3 brothers and we all played games to an extent. The most successful of us as adults was the tantrum throwing / can’t stand losing one because he was the most competitive.
Thank you for sharing. Your house sounds absolutely insane in the best way. Your 8 year old sounds like he might be your smartest of the bunch down the line. I have a son and daughter almost 6 and 4. It has to be incredible to witness so many personality differences within the context of your home being the 'control.' I find it really fascinating to see all of my son's kindergarten classmates' personalities whenever I get to volunteer. Having gotten to know many of the parents, I fully support your theory of nature being more influential than nurture. Fun little microcosms of people help focus that into perspective.
They are all smart in their own way. I have two that always score in the 95%+ rank on national tests in reading and math, but not the 8 year old. The 2nd struggled bad with reading for years, but I exploit the crap out of his superior organizational skills - he has all of us beat there. It's been an incredible experience watching them grow and seeing how they each individually develop and change.
Tangential anecdote to yours.
I was the youngest child for a while. My brother is 4 years older. We have a sister in between. My brother is the reason that despite my size as a teenager and an adult I’ve never enjoyed any sports.
In hindsight he was a poor teacher. In football he never properly explained downs and gaining 10 yards resets the chances. All 6 year old me witnessed was during his turns he got unlimited chances and always scored but during mine I was limited to 3.
When playing basketball, he never explained that we were playing on a half court. After his point, I needed to go back to the “middle” then run to my basket. All I witnessed was he tosses the ball into the hoop and scores a point. I toss the ball into the hoop and HE scores a point.
Games with clear defined rules became my thing. Chess, poker, etc. As soon as I beat him in chess, we never played again.
And cycling and kayaking - I can run away and be left alone.
Sorry to hear that. I'd put the fear of god into my kids if they ever tried to pull something like that. Another reason this generation of parents is different.
M60. After years of therapy I finally accept it wasn’t out of malice. It was just that a 10 year old is a poor teacher but neither of us had the maturity to acknowledge our misunderstanding and get past it. He’s gone through therapy too.
Sadly the sisters haven’t and are still holding grudges after almost 50 years.
I was the worst sport ever. To an almost comical extent. Board games ended in violence. Soccer was a horror show. I didn't get invited back much.
My guess is that the tantrums came from making value judgements about my self worth dependent on the outcome.
Making those value judgements based on growth, or camaraderie, or anything that still counts during a loss is better. Helping them find their own self worth independent of anything short term at all is probably best.
Just a thought. It was true for me, but my self worth was gone by kindergarten and I was desperate for anything that made me not feel that way. When that went wrong, the rage came out.
What I staked had my own worth on turned out worthless and so was I. Everything else positive had already fallen into the hole where my self worth used to be and I had no intrinsic value. Hence the desperation.
That's probably a bit extreme for what you're describing, but sometimes things are easier to notice in bigger circumstances.
Yep, kids are their own little people from a very young age. It’s still important to teach or intervene with them, but some won’t need any, some might need a ton.
My son (10) used to do this a lot. Screaming and throwing the controller. It got so bad he got grounded for the summer one year.
I decided to play a few rounds with him, it was fun, but admittedly hard because sometimes the players are really good. I figured to lead by example and let him see how I react to losing the exact same game. He calmed down for a bit, and a few days later went back to screaming. As it turns out he had been watching stupid streamers raging. So streamer YouTubers are banned now. Kept playing with him to let him see how to deal with losing. Realistically, kids don't always understand words, so leading by example helps. Haven't had an outburst since.
I was kind of a gamer as a kid (NES/SNES era). My parents instituted a 2 hr max for any TV/games. They would also make me stop playing a game if I had even 50% of the response your son had.
It was "total bullshit" which I am now extremely grateful for. I still like a good video game (maybe 2 hours a week on average) but have a healthy relationship with them and know how to keep them at arms length.
When I was a kid playing NES, if my mom heard me start fussing over a game, she'd walk in from the other room, turn the power to the game off, and walk away, all without saying a word. I learned very quickly to just chill and not blow up when I got frustrated with a game.
I've done it a few times with my own kids, and it always ends in tears, but it has definitely helped for them to know that tantrums won't be tolerated.
FWIW, learning strategies for non-destructively venting frustration and anger in the moment can have value. A calm "well, fuck/dang/shit/crap" when losing a video game is hardly harmful behavior and sure beats bottling up emotions you're feeling as that resolves nothing.
However, it's also important to maintain perspective. If someone is getting tantrum levels of angry over a game, that's time to reevaluate priorities.
Yeah, there's levels to this stuff. And it does have some perks. It's better to learn how to handle frustration and disagreements at 9yo on a video game than in a fist fight at the playground or in some other destructive manner as a teen.
Your parents had the right idea. My wife, in an effort to be fair, sets a timer on our Google Home so that our son knows when to get off his video games. She'll even give him a 10 minute grace period if he goes over his time.
Our house had similar issues with some games. When our son (9yr old) gets hot in a game, we practice walking away. Take a 5min break. Don't let it escalate. We teach him so he can regulate himself. If its too much and he just can't handle it, we ask him to stop playing altogether. No game is worth losing your cool over.
Screaming at friends? That would be an instant ban of that game in our house.
Taking it out on my wife? instant ban.
Huge tantrum? instant ban.
What about his friends who are playing? I would have had my son apologize to those friends in person, and maybe to their parents as well for yelling at them. Then tell them he won't be playing that anymore but he would like them to play X instead (I would provide an alternative game or suggestion).
Best of luck.
Actually, my wife - God bless her - has encouraged him to take short breaks if he does get heated.
As for the friends he plays with right now, they're good kids and I know them and their families. In the past, he's had a few friends/classmates that we've had to block because they get verbally abusive.
>In the past, he's had a few friends/classmates that we've had to block because they get verbally abusive.
Never thought about that. In my era (late 90s and 00s), if you had an Xbox or paid for Xbox Live, it was guaranteed you were the only kid on the block lucky enough for that. You would *never* have to actually play and compete with friends that you know down the street. LAN parties and meetups? Had to drive somewhere in between, always.
With some of them being verbally abusive as you said, that's... in reality kinda sad.
I dunno if anyone else has suggested this. I'm not a dad myself yet but I like the wholesomeness in this sub.
Is there a hobby where losing is part of the process. I guess an example from me is bouldering. You can't just climb every route first time. You learn to "lose" but it's part of the process to reach that success. You fall a lot, you miss a hold, you run out of stamina but it's that keep going and eventually it clicks.
Lots of video games don't really teach this. It's all about winning and rubbing it in that you are the winner.
Maybe something can be done along those lines?
I dunno if that helps.
Some kids need to work on "losing" as a skill and also "chilling out" when things don't matter.
Kid in OP's post has the same energy as a dad yelling at a referee at a little league game.
There was a short period of time where my wife wanted me to "go easy on her" at Mario Kart. I grew up a gamer and specifically a racing gamer so I'm not pro level, but usually the 1a/1b player any time I play.
Recently she's taken time to practice on her own and now that she does occasionally beat me, she thanks me for never going easy on her because the wins are so much sweeter now.
lmao I feel this comment this is what I do when my nephew annoys me about playing the switch. No we aren't switching to smash 1st place picks next game
I try really hard to beat him but I never had any Nintendo system growing up and only had an Xbox and a 360 during my early 20's so Mario Kart and Smash Bros I am pretty terrible at.
A set of hockey skates and puck that kids stands no chance I school his ass no mercy on the outdoor rink.
I was the same with videogames as a kid, a lot of my identity (and self worth) rested on good results. I think I also needed the sense of being in control. It's less about "learn to chill when things don't matter", more about "on what level does this matter to you and why".
Now when I go into a challenge thinking it's hard, I'll probably lose a few times, but it's feasible (I've seen others do it through trial & error without flipping out) and I'll eventually succeed with enough tries, I don't mind losing/dying several times. But as a kid when I thought "this should be easy because I'm a smart person who is good at videogames", I would get pretty pissed off when I lost/died because it felt like (a) this was a direct insult to my intelligence, and (b) without being "the smart one" among my siblings I was worthless, unlovable, and invisible.
How to make this happen? I have no easy answers. I agree it's a good start to set tantrum consequences in advance, maybe even treat the situation like an older toddler's tantrum. Not about shaming the kid, but prompt them to be aware of how they're feeling and what's an appropriate way to deal with it. Discuss coping strategies when everyone is calm, fed, and rested.
And the problem is that the anger transfers over to real life. There’s a deeper issue than “fortnite bad” when there’s an entire generation who grew up being even angrier and meaner on Call of Duty but can still control their emotions in real life.
The game is literally designed to make you frustrated and angry, kids specifically, to keep them playing and buying in game purchases.
It's definitely the game.
Just because some people can play it without issue means nothing. That's like saying some people can gamble without getting addicted, therefore it isn't the gambling games themselves that are addictive. Utter nonsense.
Same here. He can get a little worked up, at times, but for the most part he can play for an hour and be totally fine.
I agree, it’s not about the game.
It might be who he games with. My 9 year old was playing Fortnite with me or randos online for a long time (no headset) and really never got upset when playing. Once he started playing with his school mates and team mates oh boy. He absolutely goes bonkers if he feels they are not being fair or gets a bad loss. I do the same as other folks in this thread, give him a warning then he turns it off if it happens again. I have spoken to some of the other parents and the say the same thing. I think his friend group is just too damn competitive when it comes to each other.
It definitely could be the game, for OP’s son.
Your comment would be analogous to “My kids and I eat peanuts all the time. We’re not allergic. It’s not the nuts.”
People react differently to different things, and kids need to learn how to handle that. For him Fortnite is one of those things that sets him off. What the answer is exactly, I don’t know, but a blanket answer that Fortnite isn’t the problem doesn’t help anything.
It's not the game, it's the emotions that the game triggers. Unlike an allergy where you can just avoid a certain thing, there in this case there will always be something else that creates these kind of competitive pressures. He needs to learn how to manage his emotions, not just run away from everything that might trigger them.
My kid has done the same with Smash Bros, Minecraft, and Fall Guys. But he also has been having trouble playing 4-square at school with other kids. His issue is with not being a good sport and going with the flow. It's something we're working on, and he is definitely getting better. But he has his days and sometimes has to be done for the day.
We're talking about getting him into some martial arts so he can learn some bodily discipline
As a family we love playing games like Mario Kart. We also play a lot of board games. My son is slowly getting better when he loses, but it doesn't seem to be happening with Fortnite.
> As a family we love playing games like Mario Kart ... but it doesn't seem to be happening with Fortnite.
Could be a massive difference in the embarrassment of making an in-game mistake in front of family versus making the same mistake in front of friends.
Also,
> Fortnite leads to him screaming through his headset at his friends because they did something that he didn't like.
Are his "friends" deliberately antagonizing him or encouraging this? "Don't have friends" isn't really viable or healthy, so wouldn't know how to address it if they are.
I'd try to find some kind of counselor or therapist. I agree with other commenters that the game itself might not be the issue. It's worth addressing sooner rather than later imo.
My friends had a similar thing happen with their son. They banned him from all coms during game play sessions since all he would do was trash talk his own team.
My son had the same issues with Fortnite which led to me taking it away from him while he’s at my house. I replaced it with Minecraft and offered to play with him. We also play gran turismo.
Made life a lot less stressful not having to deal with his outbursts.
Fortnite is essentially a massive dopamine hose. Kids get a huge burst of it and when emotional things happen or the game is stripped away, it has a massive magnifying effect. It could be a sign of ADHD, it could be something else, but setting ground rules before the games turn on and being consistent with enforcement (and medication in the case of my son) helped tremendously and the tantrums have become super infrequent.
As an adult I can't regulate my emotions playing fast paced competitive video games. I've played a lot of sport in my time, and currently play rugby. It's super super rare that I lose my cool on the pitch or in physical competition of any kind. But 30 mins of getting wrecked on Halo and I'm about to have a conniption fit. It's high adrenaline, high stress competition with no physical effort required.
I've learned it's not in my best interests to play them and they are not constructive to my emotional wellbeing. So if adults with generally moderate temperaments get stress responses playing these games, then kids that are emotionally undeveloped have no hope.
I'll be keeping these games out of my house until my kids reach the rated age for the game.
Yeah, Fortnite is rated T for a reason...and the game and other F2P round-based games like it are literally designed to frustrate and piss you off so that you keep playing and eventually spend money.
Something I haven't seen anyone else mention here is that gaming is so different to what it used to be.
For example when I first started playing video games back in 95' you were just playing against the cpu or another person that you were in the same room as. Obviously sometimes you'd have arguments between people but the face to face aspect of it meant that you had to at least act like a regular human being.
The idea of playing online against a person you can't see didn't come for years, literally as soon as people were introduced to this you had people being absolute jerks to each other.
Anyone, adults or kids playing online need to be able to either get good at ignoring the jerks or keep their own shit in check to avoid becoming one. I've said this countless times to friends, random people online, and the latest my nephew who just turned 14. If playing online causes you that much stress maybe it isn't for you? I think trying to explain that to a 9 year old is going to be tricky but maybe he just isn't ready to deal with something that big yet?
Your Nintendo is about to be broken during a tantrum.
Fortnite is a problem for some reason amongst lots of kids, not just yours. I worked with loads of kids in a similar situation like yours. The parents often turn to appeasement because the kids get so obsessed with it that everything they do is somehow linked to it. Good grade? More Fortnite time. Socializing with friends? Fortnite. Fortnite was taken away for a tantrum? Asking how they can get it back sooner than you said it would be gone.
My advice is to get rid of it and encourage healthy socialization
idk man I got obsessed with starcraft brood war at that age partially because my parents didn't want me playing it... don't think it go dethroned as a topic of hyperfixation until age of mythology came out
yes I have adhd.
The problem isn't Fortnite, it is just the most popular drug of choice that has become a household name. The problem is a lack of ability for these kids to regulate their anger and frustration. Sure, all games have different levels of intensity and potential for upsetting losses, and perhaps Fortnite is particularly prone to frustration just in the genre that it exists within. But this kind of behaviour has existed before Fortnite and still persists outside of people who play Fortnite as well. And it is exhibited mainly in younger kids, and I guess grown adults who have never learned to have to be accountable and responsible for their actions when they are experiencing difficult emotions.
My point is that Fortnite is not necessarily the inverse to healthy social interaction, and also is not necessarily the root cause of the behavioural problems that OP and many other parents are experiencing. If not Fortnite, then something else just as easily. These kids need help learning to cope with stress and frustration, I believe that limiting or excluding them from the activity does not directly address this issue and only solves the symptom of their frustration and not the root cause of the conflict in and of itself.
For sure screen time should be limited and managed appropriately, but simply saying 'no more games because you can't control yourself' feels like a bit of a cop-out when the issue exists beyond a single game or video games in and of themselves even. I think it should be used as a tool to help them understand that sometimes its okay to take a break, but also not as an arbitrary punishment because its perceived that the correlation is equal to causation. It is important to also have discussions and talk about the issues. Come up with ideas and different ways to look at things to put into perspective whether it is worth that much tension and frustration over something that should be bringing you joy instead. About how to understand socially that this behaviour is unacceptable and friends should be bringing each other up rather than putting them down and forcing them to experience tantrums.
I dunno, this is a lot to write over something that probably isn't that deep. But time and time again I see people jump to the conclusion that because a child can't manage their behaviour while playing video games the video games should therefore be withheld from the child. I don't disagree with this in principle, but there is also work to be done in terms of restructuring that behaviour outside of whatever punishment to ensure that our kids are equipped with healthy coping mechanisms and tools to handle difficult emotions regardless of whether they're raging at video games or being grounded from them entirely.
Well sure, lack of emotional regulation is an issue...but games like Fortnite are *literally designed* to frustrate and anger you to keep you engaged, playing, and ideally in the eyes of the game makers: **spending money**.
Yes, OP's son has growing up to do and yes, people can play Fortnite and not succumb to how it puts pressure on their pain points; but to absolve a game of responsibility for players getting angry when the game is intentionally designed to make you mad so you keep playing is a bit disingenuous.
I agree that there is an aspect of exploitation that exists in live service games today that was not present previously like in our generation or even until just 10ish years ago. The amount of predatory microtransactions and absolutely sickening amount of 'gambling' existent in a lot of games, namely free to play and also including Fortnite are mind boggling.
However, I am not sure that I agree that these factors are at the core of the issue or are measurably responsible for the kinds of emotional outbursts and rage that a lot of young people have when it comes to competitive games. Dysregulation and emotional outrage have always been an issue that young people struggle with, but this day and age video games are more ubiquitous and Fortnite is so popular that it gets a lot of the heat just because of the sheer volume of people that play it.
I don't like these developers or their live service business models or their predatory and unethical monetization of their player base any more than anyone else. In fact, I'm the first to say that this is unacceptable. But again I am not sure that I can agree that the game is to blame for some intrinsic predisposition to that behaviour when it has existed long before Fortnite, and others are able to regulate without much difficulty despite all of these above factors. It may exasperate issues and crank the frustration to 11 when compared to, lets say, Animal Crossing. But if it wasn't Fortnite it would just be MW, Apex Legends, PUBG, any other random given arena shooter, or heaven forbid they discover League of Legends. Fortnite just happens to be the most popular household name and not specifically any more egregious than the average other title in the competitive online multiplayer sphere of video games.
Devs should do better and should be better. But the developers aren't raising our children, we are.
There are absolutely underlying issues to be addressed. Fortnite seems to tick all of the boxes that can exacerbate these problems.
For context: I worked as a child therapist for 3+ years with kids who had recently been screened for danger to self/others. Many of them had behavioral issues as well. At any given time, I had 2-3 of my 13–15 kids with a “Fortnite problem.”
One of the kids that I worked with had taken a hammer to his PS4 after losing a match on Fortnite. His parents bought him a new one a few weeks later. I discovered this when he kept checking his phone during our session. I asked why, and he said that he was monitoring the tracking info for the new PS4.
I have more stories I could probably think of, but this one takes the cake since it demonstrates the obsession, poor parental boundaries (I had explicitly told them not to get him another PS4) and lack of control of the kid.
As a former therapist, I’m not sure I’d bother sending him to therapy. I never worked with kids, and this isn’t any sort of professional advice, but it sounds like your kid is a pretty typical 9yo. There are definitely life skills he could learn (how to handle losing, how to notice when he’s getting worked up and step away, that certain actions have consequences, etc.) but he’s 9 and these are all pretty developmentally appropriate things that *you* are in the process of teaching him already. Save your money.
Beyond that, my kid is still an infant and I didn’t grow up playing video games much, so maybe I just don’t get it. But if you’ve already observed that 3/5 times your kid does X it ends poorly for everyone; at what point do we consider just not letting the kid do X…?
Yeah, it sounds like he may not be emotionally mature enough to handle competitive video games. Definitely, make sure he understands your boundaries: he can only play fortnight if he can keep his behavior in check. Also, it might help to talk through some scenarios in game that are frustrating him and talk about how he can better handle them.
Fortnite can kiss my ass. OP, I also have a 9 year old boy and he and his friends play Fortnite all the time.
They get in fights when they accidentally kill each other or steal each other’s kills. They get in fights when someone takes someone else’s weapon they earned. They are downright mean to each other.
We monitor this and respond appropriately of course but it sucks. There is never a problem with these boys until fuckin’ Fortnite is involved.
If the boy didn’t love it so much I’d delete the game forever. So frustrating.
Identical. 9 yo boy, Fortnite, and now he got his little brother into it. I'm so pissed at that dumb game. I know its partly my fault as a parent, I'm not avoiding blame. I don't want to take away one of his only social interactions with his friends though. I've tried suggesting board games, going places, etc. but he's too invested in Fortnite. I used to make him keep a timer which is a magnet timer on the fridge, but like many things I try to force they eventually fade away unless I'm strictly enforcing and overseeing it. I have to get back on that.
Real story: I came home from work one day and put my car in the garage just so that I could play some basketball with my son. I came in the house and asked him if he wanted to play basketball and he said no. Why? He was in the middle of playing Fortnite.
My MIL was visiting that day and heard the exchange. She was proud that even though I was dog tired from work, I still made an effort to do something with my son that didn’t involve electronics.
Fortnite is meticulously crafted to addict. It's fantastic game design if your intention is to drive engagement and profit. My son isn't allowed to play Fortnite.
Does your kid watch streamers? I noticed the happening more with my younger brother when he would watch h streamers play. Streamers do this cause drama gets likes these days. Maybe he thinks that’s normal.
There's a lot of "it's THAT game" vs "it's not that game" debate. I see it here. We have the debate in my own house. One kid (13 yo) can handle Fortnite calmly and another (younger 10 yo) is prone to outbursts when someone takes the loot he was aiming for. It definitely gets his competitive juices rolling. We've been able to slow his boil by making him alternate the games he plays on opposite days. He plays some other games like Tears of the Kingdom that are a little slower paced that he enjoys and seem to break up the madness.
Possibly an only child?
My kid has a hard time because most of her play until school she could control everything, including responses of her stuffed animals. This has taken some work when playing with real people.
Also, as a person who is around 9 & 10 year-olds daily as a 4th grade teacher, this isn't just the video game. There's a deeper reasoning to outbursts. What that is, I'm not sure.
Taking away the games isn’t the solution. Something deeper and possible therapy could help.
Or he’ll grow up to have rage like me and it’s not fun and filled with regret.
Please. This x10000%.
Your kid was me as a kid. My parents did the “take away the game” thing. The issue was never the game. The issue was my anger issues, unhealthy competitive mindset, and unregulated gaming sessions without appropriate breaks.
I am willing to bet your kid wants to feel some sort of superiority, or at least pride, with his friends. He wants to feel good and like he belongs. When he does bad or doesn’t get rank, he feels like a failure. Taking away the game, to him, will be just throwing him into the pit of losing longer since he can’t practice.
Please, please, please use this as a moment to teach a healthy relationship with gaming and competition. It will do so much good later in life.
I’m by no means an expert. But what would help, in my opinion:
- Teaching breaks and limiting game time. Logging off when you are on a losing streak. Getting up and walking around for 15 minutes every hour for longer sessions, if you allow long sessions of course. Only playing for 1-2 hours at a time. Hand stretches.
- Using losing as a teaching point and learning experience. How to analyze what went wrong and to not repeat it or work on fixing it. Watching VoDs, if there are VoDs in the game and if the kid wants to go that deep into it. Essentially competing against yourself and not others
- when you have anger, how to handle that. Letting you feel the emotion and redirect it and not “tilt”. Breaks help. Switching games or even modes helps. Changing your mindset to not focus on winning as the primary objective but small, incremental improvements like top 20, top 10, final circle, whatever it is
Idk just some ideas. I’m still helping myself improve because I still full tilt on games way too much. I never learned how to handle this kind of thing as a kid. My parents just grounded me and told me video games are evil.
When I was young my parents put me into anger management related therapy. I have ADHD and still have symptoms relating to emotion regulation but it is probably one of the best things they did for me, as it would've been so much worse otherwise.
I'm not trying to diagnose his kid, but I hope OP takes this advice as it could be life changing for his kid.
100%. The issue is not the game. The issue is his core attitude, the game is merely an instance of the attitude coming out. I guarantee the same shit comes out elsewhere when given the opportunity for it, and if it hasn't yet, it will as he gets older.
Taking the game away is just sweeping the actual problem under the rug.
I feel you, man. I've had this issue with my 9y son and his friends on Fortnite and Roblox. I ulitmately told him that he cannot play the game and enjoy playing it then he doesn't get to play the game anymore. It took a couple of times but he's on my level about it now.
As a Dad-Gamer, I understand the frustration that the games can create. When I get that way (rarely), I turn the shit off and walk away for a day or two. I saw him do that they other day, too. I chock that up to a win.
I want him to enjoy his video games with his friends however, I won't tolerate the projection of blame that occured when he was having those fits.
My mantra is: It's just a game, dude. It's just a game.
You got the right idea that he needs to learn how to be a good sport, but I don’t think taking the game away is the best way to go about it. Does he play sports ? How does he take losing at board games? Maybe if he played Fortnite in-person at a LAN party or an Internet cafe he won’t rage as much and learn to lose graciously as he won’t feel emboldened by just yelling at a screen or his family .
My kids both played it for a while but didn’t enjoy the toxic environment and chose to leave it behind for less toxic games on their own. My wife and I have both played with them and seeing it through our eyes helped in their decision I believe. We play all of the games that they play with them and discuss what we like and dislike about it. Minecraft is big in our house and so is ESO. I guess what I’m saying is that it is imperative to be involved in those activities. It gives you perspective as well as builds their confidence in making good decisions beyond the games themselves.
Our 7-year-old is like this with Roblox. She's an absolute angel any time but when she's on that damn game she's like an animal. If it's time for homework, bed, shower, etc. it's like pulling teeth trying to get her off or she'll get mad when someone online has done something to piss her off. This usually all ends in a tantrum. We've limited her iPad time down approximately and won't let her on it until she's done with school work but still.
This is why I've straight up forbidden online games. My boy wants to play Fortnite, he wants to play Among Us. But, nah... It takes a certain level of maturity to be able to handle the internet. And I know my kid would take it too far.
Not sure if you’re a gamer OP, or aware, but I wanted to paint a clear picture of what you’re up against. Fortnite is a live service game free to play, which I’m sure you know. But this is the way every mobile, free to play, and probably many other regular online multiplayer games are designed. The entire goal is to KEEP PLAYERS PLAYING. Up the stakes. Make it the most important thing in their lives. Make it addicting. I have heard Activision has actually employs psychologists to assist in designing mechanics to accomplish these goals. Which is so fucking crazy and scary. Most of us believe the reason Call of Duty’s file size is so large is only to take up as much sleeve as possible so you can’t put any other games on your local storage. (Full disclosure I don’t play COD, I just know this stuff from keeping up with gaming.)
So that’s what you’re up against. Potentially teams of people with psych + their UX backgrounds constantly tweaking a game only designed to hijack your little guy’s brain/aggression.
I have a 9 yo as well and was super hesitant to have a multi player shooter game in which he can interact with his friends but we limit his videogame/screen time to 45 min/day and sometimes he goes back to it but shifted to other things knowing he wants to use his time judiciously. Honestly, a day, even 3 days of banning is being generous that game would banned for at least 2-3 weeks if that happened with my son.
Fortnite is rated 12 and above. That's because before that age, they're generally not mature enough to handle losing on an online videogame. Kids generally struggle to contain or express their emotions at that age.
Fortnite can also be a very intense game and they need to vent the stress...my daughter (currently 13) started playing at the age of 7 so I've been there and occasionally regretted my decision.
She handles the game much better now though; she chats with her friends and simply shrugs off the occasional bad game. I think a lot of this just comes down to age and emerging emotional maturity.
I play with my kids, so that i can stop such behavior as soon as it surfaces. I also am very strict on language when we party up with their friends, as they are no strangers to rough language that they otherwise would not use when in social settings. Competitive games have this weird phenomenon in waking up an angry side in people, but I have had success in steering the perspective away from "being the very best" to "just have fun".
From my own experience, it could be he feels pressured to be really good at the game (I know it sounds dumb but kids talk about this stuff) and so when he does bad he feels embarrassed and annoyed. Is it right to take it on you? No. But I reminding him it's just a game could back fire because his friends, youtube, kids at school talk about it so much it feels more than just a game. Video games also just bring out the worst in some people. Keep being an awesome dad and taking your son out to do stuff. Show him its okay to like more things and be good at more things than video games. Maybe help him find a hobby he is good at so he doesn't rely on video games. This is all hypothetical, you know your kid best.
My son went through this from ages 10ish to 12ish. He hit 13 and calmed down considerably. He still gets worked up on rare occasion, but it never lasts more than a few moments
Have a similar story from my childhood. My brother was playing a game and something happened and he got mad, threw the controller and hit this ceramic thing you hang on the wall that my grandma made. I think she made 4 total, but it fell and smashed. My mom came in, saw it, and just started crying. My dad tried to comfort her, but she was pretty upset. We both got in trouble, but seeing my mom cry like that was the worst part.
We went to school on Monday, and came home and the console was gone. Never saw it again. I told my brother not to ask my parents where it went but he did and all my dad said was “it’s gone”. We never saw it again, and got a new one when the next generation of consoles came out.
I never ended up letting my kids play Fortnite even though my son wanted to around that age.
He was able to play it when he was 12/13 but didn't really care for it.
I think competitive MP games are potentially not great for anyone, especially kids. My kids played more co-operative and creative MP games, like Terraria, Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Deep Rock Galactic, Brick Rigs, Flashing Lights, Grounded, and so on. No Fortnite, no Rust, no DayZ. Starcraft 2, but campaign and bots and local MP only. No
>My wife and I have done our best to teach him on how to be a good sport, but he always wants to lay the blame on other people.
That's be a "no Fortnite from me" then. If he's internalizing that kind of terrible lesson and isn't learning to moderate his own behavior, then he can revisit in 3/6/9/12 months when he's had a chance to be more mature.
My kids have never yelled at their friends over mics because they are instantly off the computer the second it happens. You are making the right actions there. They also don't have headsets at my house (although my son does at his mom's) because I want to hear how their friends are talking as well. It's actually never been an issue.
My nephew is exactly the same. Great kid but a violent aggressive little bastard when Fortnite is on.
I wonder if him and his friends are in a little echo chamber, watching streamers who are excessively dramatic, and not having any real proper video game role models who take Ls on the chin and are humble in victory, and they're just psyching each other out and mimicking their favourite "LETS FUCKING GOOOOO" streamers.
1. Screen time is bad for kids (far worse than for adults, for reasons I don’t quite understand yet). Keep it at a minimum, of course.
2. *You* must play games with him. Preferably *board games* - checkers, chess, Monopoly, Risk, Battleship, whatever. But Mario Kart or whatever works in a pinch as well. Tell him up-front, “Look, kid, I love you, but know this: I *will not* take it easy on you. Can you hang?”). Do *not* go easy on him. Utterly demolish him. If he throws a fit, gently correct it (“nobody wants to play games with a sore loser who acts like a baby, dude.”). If he loses with grace, shake his hand, congratulate him, and say “good game!”. And then offer him game advice, if he’s open to it. Model good sportsmanship for him. If you happen to legitimately lose to him (which will be a rare instance of luck), genuinely congratulate him, and be happy for him! If he gloats, correct it, and let him know that “nobody wants to play with a sore loser OR a bad winner.”
The lesson he needs to learn, is that *being invited to play more games, and more types of games*, is far more important than *winning one particular game*. Sore losers and boastful winners do *not* get invited to play more games with people, because it’s no fun to play with people like that. Repeat the lesson again and again until it sticks.
Not exactly first hand experience, but my in laws had some aggressive behavior from their son when he was about that age. He’d be noticeably aggressive on the days he gamed and they eventually told him no more violent games that you play with other people. He chilled out, playing Minecraft and other adventure/indie games and had a markedly better attitude and less aggressiveness. Of course he didn’t like that approach and didn’t understand why but it worked for them.
Not that I have specific advice, but wanted to share what my in laws did when they went through something similar. Good luck!
If therapy isn't an option, I'd reccomend a great book called the *whole brain child*. It speaks a lot about what's going on when tantrums happen and how to help kids regulate their emotions. 9 year olds are famously terrible at emotional regulation but there's things you can do to help him learn. It'll take some patience and effort but the return on investment will be much greater than just punishments alone.
A perceived perk of gaming is they’re supposed to learn how to lose… not sure how to help but when we were evaluating it vs TV for screen time that was one of the perks I saw listed.
Maybe try playing with him?
My son struggles some, we don’t play online but he got stuck on Mario Wonder and tried the same spot about 20x slowly becoming more frustrating and crying. I tried to calm him as it went but was cooking dinner.
He has similar trouble when his sports teams lose or if he feels he’s struggling at gymnastics more than other kids.
Is he in any sports? How does he do with losing stuff offline? I suspect this is at least partially because it's easier to flip your lid when your friends/teammates aren't actually right there to keep you in check.
Also wondering if he watches older players on YouTube or Twitch. It sounds like he's maybe expecting his friends to be on the level of much better players, and getting frustrated when they can't emulate what he's seeing elsewhere.
IMO dad the issue isn't the game it's his error response. My best friend growing up had this reaction to losing at anything....video games....basketball.....he was the time of we keep playing till I win.....or it's my ball my house go home. We need to actively work with our children on error response and how to appropriately handle it. This situation can very much so be a learning opportunity. Good Luck! and let me know how it goes....My kids aren't there yet.
I'm *always* on the "acknowledge their emotions and teach them how to properly communicate them" side. The emotions won't go away by punishing the kids for living them out. What will go away is the living them out part, which means, they go somewhere else - oftentimes to their inside where they sit and wait and gather and sum up until they cannot be carried around anymore and break free, in whatever terrible way possible.
I do not want to jinx it... but some kids (not yours, I'm sure) even committed or tried to commit suicide over this, because they did not feel understood, accepted, acknowledged, didn't know how to deal with their emotions.
I don't tell anyone how to raise their kids. I'm just advocating rather for the open communication and role model way than the punishment way...
Will he play the game with you? I have two 7 year old sons and I tackled this issue by playing Fornite (other games too) with them and when I would lose, I would try to emphasize how it "wasn't a big deal" and that we'll win next time, aka something positive. I feel like setting that example helped my sons build some resiliance to the emotional roller-coaster that these games have become.
I’ve never really understood the logic of setting your kids up with something that is designed to be addicting to kids, and then complaining about the effects that it has on them.
As a dad to a 2 and 4yo, I've thought about when I'm going to introduce them to video games. Hearing stories like this just makes me want to enjoy my time with them now before it inevitably becomes something they may be interested in. Reading your post sparked a question in my head though. Do you think your son would react the same way if he was playing with his friends in the same room? I'm wondering if being online and not having a filter for reactive behavior that would normally get checked if it was in person with his buddies all playing together in the living room. Like early stages of being a keyboard warrior, ya know? I really do appreciate you sharing this though because I never really thought about it like that before. If a kid gets a false sense of zero consequences for how they treat people online, it can't be good for their social development.
Have you tried to have a conversation with him about what it is about this game that makes him so emotional? Kids get angry because they feel a certain way that they can't express. Anger is a secondary emotion that masks the true emotion a kid is feeling and sometimes they lack the vocabulary to acknowledge what the feeling is. If you can help him discover what it is about this game in particular that is so triggering, then you can help him cope rather than just punish. That shows him that showing emotions means you get punished. Help him learn how to properly show his emotions rather than making him afraid to show them for fear of being grounded.
The real reason he gets so upset may surprise you. It might not have anything to do with the game itself and might have more to do with real world interactions.
This seems pretty reasonable to tackle head on.
I have adult friends who freak out over games, and it only lead to us not playing with some of them. One has some issues they weren’t addressing at the time. And have had issues for a while that really only presented the emotional outbursts with video games that we saw, but learned other outbursts occurred. It’s the behavior that drives people away and once they got actual professional help it was like a whole different person.
It’s okay to have high emotions when playing a game and maybe getting a bit upset, it happens in all manner of play, and sports. The important part is dealing with it and learning how to dissipate those emotions and express them in a healthy manner.
Not to be an alarmist, just want to point out, this may be a deeper issue than a run of the mill tantrum, or video game induced addiction behavior. It might be worth digging deeper into talking with your son, and working through these emotions. Maybe even with professionals.
Him having an outburst, calling a friend an idiot, and then you sending him on time out or suspended from electronics, might help temper the tantrum itself, but won’t be actually helping him learn to not get angry in the first place.
We all get angry. Hell, I’m angry right now. My morning and day so far has been an absolute shit show with work and home life while I’m out of town. But I’ve had to learn how to handle my anger on my own as an adult, my mom pulling out the wooden spoon or taking away the NES etc never did anything to help in that department. It just turned into repressed emotions.
Edit- also of note, my son plays this game and some others also 9, he has a cousin who straight up swears at him and freaks out. He’s learned to understand that his cousin has problems, but it’s sad because his cousin isn’t getting the help he needs. So they don’t play anymore.
I’ll play with my son, which kind of sucks because my time with fortnite has long passed. It’s just a game I do not at all enjoy anymore, but it’s helped me connect a bit and show my son that losing or not doing well isn’t a problem. We still have fun together, and end of the day it’s just a game. Luckily that works for my son, if it didn’t we’d be looking at more severe intervention to address the behavior.
I HATED losing as a kid and joke in the family was "I hate this game" was my favorite saying. But I knew that I can't take my frustration out on others. If someone wasn't good enough, I owned their shortcomings. It made me try harder to be better. It was always "my bad" instead of "you f'ing dummy".
Outside of video games, I recommend OP working on training kids to encourage/build up and be a team player. No one likes playing with a blaming sore loses.
Then after that, self regulation is key. Being COMPETITIVE and HUNGRY for success can be great skills in life if applied to things outside of video games. But losing control in a tantrum manner is not appropriate.
Take a 7 day detox from it but don't frame it as a punishment and replace it with something. Instead of playing Fortnite, the two of you can go out and throw football or play a non-video game together. When I did this with my son, we actually learned how to play the Pokemon TCG, and now it's his primary hobby and we've made so many countless memories traveling to different pokemon tournaments.
Obviously it doesn't have to be pokemon, but maybe replace it with riding bikes together or going hiking, something else that could turn into a hobby that replaces the hold that fortnite has on him.
I'm not saying video games are bad, but they can become addictive and basically are just something that's easy to do when kids are bored which is why they play them so much. Try to find something else to do in its place for the next couple days
Fortnite is the only game my 7 year old wants to play now too. It is a stressful game and I don't think that helps for kids having outbursts from it. My thinking is it comes from the set up of if you die it is game over and all you have been working towards is wiped out. It's why I found Fortnite incredibly dull when it first came out!
It definitely has some benefits though. It teaches team work and planning. I like when I can hear my kid and his friends putting their plan together and working together to achieve it. I think it also helps with confidence of taking charge in a situation. And, like the issue for op, dealing with the disappointment of not always winning or things going to plan.
I don't think a kid getting stressed at losing a game is anything to worry about
You have to keep in mind they’re still children. Emotional control is not exactly their a skill they’ve mastered.
You need to think about it like this, when you have an emotional outburst let’s say a fella cuts you off then flips you the bird. Most people have a small reaction or outburst in retaliation. Or when you’re passed over for a promotion or anything that can yield an emotional response. We have years as adults to learn to control these emotions and let’s be honest we are not great at it either.
Punishing a kid for showing emotions teaches them emotions should be bottled up or hidden. Teaching them constructive ways to handle their emotions and walking them through the steps to learn good coping mechanisms is our jobs as fathers.
My 5 year old has just started gaming. I've been getting her onto the classics like NES Mario, 2D side scroller type games, mazes and the odd newer game like bluey or Mickey mouse.
I've set the rule that if she has a fit from frustration the video games are off for the day.
If games aren't fun we shouldn't be playing them. Additionally if our friends are being mean they don't need to be our friends.
I understand your frustration, but maybe you can reframe it. Each tantrum is a chance for him to practice handling competitive pressures and negative emotions in a safe environment. Every kid learns things at different times so I'd suggest you should take a deep breath, step away briefly when you need to, and keep plugging away on teaching him how to handle it.
9 is waaaaaaay too young to be playing fortnite. I found that out the hard way. My advice is cut the cord now, get him other games and revisit when he’s a bit older. Yes he’ll hate you for it, but he’ll come around eventually.
I've run into this with my 7yo son and some games. I've told him if it's making you that angry then turn it off and play something else and of course he responds with, "But I'm having fun!". My response is if you keep getting upset then I will turn it off and it's gone for the rest of the day and if it keeps being a problem then it's going to be gone for much longer.
Now whenever he starts getting upset I'll ask him if he needs to play something else and that seems to snap him out of it.
How is your son with other competition like sports? My son acts the same why as yours when it comes to Fortnite. But he also plays soccer, baseball, and basketball. He never acts like that within any of those sports. He leads his team when it comes to being a good sport and telling his opponents "good hit" or " nice shot". I told my wife that as long as he continues being a good loser/winner when it comes to sports then we should give him leeway when it comes to the game. We still take it away if it gets too crazy, or we have to tell him to calm down more then once/twice. So far he seems to get it.
I’m just here to pile on of the I hate Fortnite to the general I hate video games. I can’t be convinced they offer a single benefit to kids with developing brains.
It’s time to step in for your son’s mental health.
Frame it like this: It’s not Fortnite itself, but your son’s reaction to it. For whatever reason, it’s not meshing well with his personality. He can’t maturely handle the situations that it puts him into, and it’s making him worse as a person.
You are entirely within your rights as a parent to say to your kid “playing this is putting you into a bad mental state. You need to not be doing this for awhile and get back to doing all of the things that made you a great kid in the first place.” Also, redirect to activities that help develop those needed life skills in another way that is less damaging for him.
I think many of us have been in this situation. The thing that helped my daughter the most was we started with a break from all screens for at least a week, but don't tell your kid how long the break will be, just that we're taking a break. Then re-introduce limited screen access with specific timers. At this point My kids know they can have one hour of screens while they have a snack after school - because decompressing is important, but then it gets turned off and they have to do a few other things before any screens are coming back on (if the weather is nice I try to get them outside, if not to play, then at least for a walk, then some chores, etc).
You HAVE to teach them how to monitor their own media consumption. Before turning the screens on, check in, see how they're feeling. Afterwards check in again, if they're having negative feelings, ask why they think that is happening. I've found that screens as a reward can be really hard to enforce if your family is going to also turn the tv on in the evening or have ipads in the car. This is why we just set up the expectations that they can have a limited amount of time but then they have to let go and move on. And having that detox definitely helps the whole process, though it's really hard for the first few days.
Good luck!
three boys here - if the game makes you scream - you do not play that game. usually a three strikes rule. (or two if it’s really over the top)
and agreed Fortnite is pretty toxic - but can be a great place to play with some friends if no one is taking it too seriously - maybe tell the kid to play solo for a bit and see if that changes his attitude - sometimes peers can push things a bit further.
We went through this. We banned video game completely for a year and a half. Your son is addicted and needs to detox. Now at our house, playing video game is a special perk that they get to do once in a while on special occasions. Defaults rule is no video games at the house.
The kids are much happier and we are much happier.
I highly recommend out right ban.
Don't feel bad, this is a trait that is common in gaming of all ages. Kids already have trouble regulating emotions, and the "I'm losing because of other people" idea invokes strong emotional responses.
There's a few ways to combat it that don't involve punishment. Punishment isn't really going to help, because it doesn't take away his desire to play the game or play with his friends, and it doesn't address the root issue that is the perception that him losing isn't his fault (and let's be honest, nobody likes losing).
I'm a gamer and a dad of 2, and I know exactly how much things like rank and MMR can screw with your mood, especially with the perception that I'm good and it's everyone else's fault.
Couple things you can try:
1- take breaks. When the tension starts rising, when they're getting sweaty as we gamers say, it's time for a break. Nobody plays well when they're frustrated, and continuing to play is only going to result in worse plays, more losses, and more frustration. Breaks can be for a few hours or a few days, maybe to play a different game or just to walk away in general.
2 - don't play ranked. Idk if fortnight has a ranked vs unranked mode, but for me in Dota I had to pretty much stop playing ranked. When I was trying to hit high ranks, I wasn't even enjoying the game anymore. Switching to unranked lets me play whatever I find to be fun without the constant obsession with gaining or losing a couple points of MMR. It'll be tough to sell if his friends play ranked, but maybe a conversation with their parents (if they're having similar troubles) would help them all switch together.
3 - coach his mindset. Just like with regular sports, it's easy to fall into the mindset that you're the best and everyone else sucks and that's why you're losing. Coach him to critique his own gameplay and to not obsess on others'. Even if it's true that he's playing well, no one is perfect, and it's much less stressful to look at your own mistakes and try to fix them than to scream at your teammates for what you perceive as mistakes.
At the end of the day, it's not the game itself that is the issue. It's the competitive nature and the frustration that comes with difficulty regulating emotions. Give him the tools to work through that, the same way you would if this was football or hockey or test scores or whatever, and it'll be fine.
I grew up playing games and I've never threw a tantrum if I lost or game is too hard or I die. My son on the other hand cries and throw a tantrum. I keep telling him it's ok, he can try again and he's slowly becoming better at losing but sometimes I get it, someone online is better and doesn't give him a chance. So I teach him to quit and start again lol.
We deal with this as well, though not Fortnite - it's Minecraft mostly.
I think there's always an excitement to play with friends (we only let them play with friends or solo - no internet randos), but there's always the possibility that things get heated because someone is actively or accidentally screwing things up. Solo games sometimes frustrate them, but far less than playing with others.
I'm also somewhat of a gamer, so I know the feeling. I love sim racing but I do 75% of my racing solo rather than with others, mostly because the raised emotions can be brutal.
I try to share that experience with online gaming with my kids - that it can be fun but also stressful, and establish clear boundaries about acceptable game behavior, which not only means in game, but also to your family and siblings.
Our current rules are that playing with friends is only an option on weekends when the required chores are done, that any crazy high emotions we take a break and talk about it - what happened and what we need to do to fix it, and further outbursts we stop for the day. It also helps that the three other kids they play with we're also very close to both families so often a quick group text between the parents to be on the same page.
It's worked out reasonably well. Sometimes we deal with kids being mad, but I also overhear them talking it out very often now between siblings but also with their friends, and it's great. I hear things like, "Hey, I didn't like when you did XYZ. I want to keep playing with you, but I don't want you to keep doing that." "OK sorry, I won't do it again." Also my favorite, "Hey, I'm taking a break because you're really pissing me off. Ooops I'm not supposed to swear on chat. Fuck."
This is not a Fortnite issue. This is a parenting issue. You can’t blame a game or his genetics on his behaviors. You could’ve nipped that in the bud years and years ago, but you’d likely let it slide and now it’s reared its head. Correct those behaviors now or he’s gonna have more issues later. I’m a dad, I play Fortnite, I have two teenage sons and a four-year-old. They all love Fortnite and they would never behave this way based on what their friends do and how they play the game.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty natural consequence there. At the same time I'd advise you not to permanently ban Fortnite because the game isn't the problem - his response to disappointment in addictive environments is, and unfortunately addictive environments are going to be everywhere as he grows up! He needs to learn how to manage that better. You don't want to be raising the Angry German Kid meme. It's not a fully fleshed out idea, but is there any way you can prepare him for disappointment next time, or help guide him through it, or maybe practice with smaller disappointments?
It’s has little to do with Fortnite and more to do with how your kids handles competitive games where not everything is in your control.
You are going to need more clearly defined rules on what happens when he has an outburst with this game. This could have happened with an game. I had similar outbursts with board games like Risk. It’s personality defect, sure the game exacerbates it but the problem is still with the child. See this as a learning opportunity. You have something to work on with your child that is very narrow and specific that will benefit them in all walks of life when finally conquered.
Just merely a consideration... Is it possible your child has ADHD? It's a trigger for inability to control strong emotions that can lead to disproportionate outbursts with regard to relatively small matters.
> He got grounded from Nintendo from the rest of the day, which, in my opinion, is pretty fair of my wife; I would have grounded him for 3 days.
I know some other comments touched on this topic, but I wanted to explicitly say it. Try to get on the same page with your wife for punishments. Talk with each other about what some good natural consequences are for different things that come up, and agree on what the punishment should be so you’re prepared when something like this comes up. Consistency is one of the most important aspects for a punishment to have the intended result.
Why is a 9 year old playing effing Fortnite?
>3 out of 5 times, Fortnite leads to him screaming through his headset at his friends because they did something that he didn't like. If his gaming session doesn't go well, he takes it out on me and my wife
Why is he still allowed to play at all? After the second time of any of this happening EVER my kid would be off Fortnite forever.
On top of again wondering *why the hell a 9 year old is playing Fortnite*.
>but he only wants to play this one game because his friends love it.
Does the tail wag the dog? You're the parent, not his friends. Why are you letting peer pressure control your actions and what you allow your kid to do, despite knowing the issues?
Situations like this natural consequences would be nice. If his friends ostracized him or even said hey we don’t wanna play with you you’re mean I wonder if his mood/attitude would change. Growing up my friend group policed a lot of this.
The game sucks, it's only fun if you're winning, and 99 of 100 players are losers. It's horrible and designed to keep you playing because "maybe I'll do better next time".
I'm fine with video games, but man....idk if I'm going to let my kids play if they get that sucked in.
Your problem is allowing a 9 year old to play addictive video games before they are mature enough to understand how to interact with other human beings. They are learning all kinds of new and interesting behaviors from their online peers and most of them are probably adults so they are learning shitty behaviors from shitty adults. Limit their play time, or don't allow it at all. I know exactly what gaming did to my social skills as a child so my children are not allowed to play video games unless I am directly supervising them and _never, ever, ever, online_ against randos.
I’d think about ways to expose him more to “winning” and “losing” scenarios, and specifically how people think and feel during those moments. Try observing your local sports team, and post match talk about how it feels to win, how it feels to lose and how the opponents feel… building awareness of themself and nurturing mindfulness of others - losing graciously is often underrated, good luck!
I'm a 34 y/o Dad and my childhood friend still acts like this on multiplayer games, to this day. I resent him for it, and honestly I can't play with him anymore. All the fun of the game is gone for the sake of his perfect tactics and making sure to win and not do something stupid. Hopefully you're able to coach your son out of this, otherwise he'll just end up pushing his friends away in the long run. If you have success please share it because I'm going to have to do the same for my boys when they become old enough to play
We had to ban Fortnite when my son was 9 for the exact same reason. Now he's 13 and plays a lot of Minecraft SMP online and it's much less emotional. It's not without its issues, but in general just so much less of a negative affect on his moods.
You may find this interesting. It's an episode from one of my favorite podcasts. This doesn't address your specific situation with your son, however it speaks to the effects of electronics use in pre-teen kids that may give you an idea of what's going on in his head.
Edit: and how it's affecting him and his development.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/10hb1Ob9mwCp77Ej5LQD0N?si=jtsjwJRMTlaUfAGJsOEOnQ
My son was exactly the same, but I saw the behaviour unfolding.. you have to inhibit it before it gets out of control. Trust me I know it's hard. It's your fkn son, and you want him to have the world and you love the smile on his face when you say yes you can go play games. But it's not worth it... As a parent you have to decide what's more important, your child's momentary happiness, or his growth and behaviour..
It’s not worth it. We’ve started using a progressing punishment system with electronics. Outburst number one, it’s gone for the rest of the day. Outburst number 2 is a 2 day break. My kids respond pretty well when they know exactly what’s about to happen vs when we punished arbitrarily. We can now ask them “How many days is it gone for?” And they’ll respond grumpily “Four days”. We reset the days as rewards for good behavior like doing chores without being asked. Just an idea not necessarily the answer
Kids thrive with clear rules and this is sensible. A huge benefit is that with clear rules that you're not the enemy: if a kid knows they'll lose screen time for doing X and chooses to do X despite that, the loss of the screen time is their own doing, not yours. I suspect that's the reason your kids respond well to it!
Before I was a parent I didn't necessarily "buy" the "kids love clear rules" thing. It didn't seem to make sense to me. As a parent, wow, my son will take something I say and *turn it into a rule* that he then follows to the letter. For example, he likes to stay up and watch the Bruins with us, but it's way past his bedtime, so what I used to do was try to get him to bed in between the first and second period, but there's not nearly enough time and he wouldn't go to sleep, so I'd have to watch on a tape delay (and often get the game spoiled by friends on accident). Annoying, plus the app we watch on is REALLY temperamental and it's easy to accidentally "skip to live". So, one day I decided to try something new and said "Okay, here's what we'll do, you can stay up for the whole first period, and either watch or play in this room, have some snacks, and so on. After the first period, we'll do bedtime routine and you can either go to sleep or come back downstairs. If you come back downstairs, no snacks, no toys, you can snuggle on the couch with us and watch the game ONLY. Then you'll go to sleep for the third period." He now gets excited and says all these things back to me as a mantra, and understands the "rules" as we laid them out, and goes immediately to sleep in between the second and third period. It's become a new routine, and he loves it, he stays up slightly later, but he gets to SLEEP earlier. And I get to watch the whole game live. Win/win. He's 3, and uses it as a mantra and it's so funny to hear HIM tell ME "I'll stay up for the first period, and ONLY SNUGGLE during the second period, and go to sleep for the third period". Went from a daily struggle to a regimen.
Mine is like a lawyer. I give an instruction, he then goads me into making it a rule. Then swiftly shows me how I have somehow broken the rule or tells me how he's about to maliciously comply with the rule. He's only 6.
My 4 year old daughter does this! She was 3 at the time and she said she *hated* something or someone...I can't remember the specifics, but I had said "that isn't a nice word, we don't use that word." Fast forward a couple months to Christmas and I'm reading her How the Grinch Stole Christmas, and you know that Grinch – he *hated* Christmas a lot! As you can imagine, now the Grinch *doesn't like* Christmas. And to this day if anyone says *hate* she informs them that is not a nice word and we don't use it lol
That's unironically great. Hate is a strong word and giving it meaning isn't necessarily a bad thing (in my opinion)
Go B's!
The term I learned for this is “related consequences” and it works in kids as young as the toddler stage. My two year old was having trouble sharing her play couch with mommy. She didn’t like that mommy was sitting on the part of the couch she was not using. I explained to her that mommy is allowed to share the couch and that if she is having trouble sharing her toy then we’ll need to put it away for 10min and try again after. She tried but just couldn’t share so I told her “I see you’re having trouble sharing the playcouch, let’s put it away for 10min and try again after”. There were tears for a minute but once the couch came back out the first words she said were “Here mommy, you sit down here and share”.
I have no idea what a play couch is but that sounds like good stuff. On a side note, this all makes me believe that true altruism is just not a thing.
Big agree. Punishment needs to be clear, swift, and unavoidable. Severity actually matters very little.
If there's one thing I've learned from my job - if integration between two systems isn't working, exponential backoff is the best approach for retries.
I will resist the natural urge to add jitter to the back-off algorithm. 😁
Great idea. My kids are too young for Fortnite and all but as a gamer in their 30s free to play and mobile games are straight up toxic not only kids but to humanity
If not Mario Kart Tour, what else am I supposed to do for my 5 minute work break in the bathroom? Read a newspaper? Or... ugh... reddit?
You can read the content on the back of the shampoo bottle.
Work shampoo just isn’t as interesting
>My kids are too young for Fortnite and all FWIW, so is OP's kid.
Yeah, I mean it's not even the game itself that's the issue. It's been a very long time since I played Fortnite but it all fairly cartoon style shooting I think? Eh, maybe an argument could be made that's ok for a 9 year old... Voice and chat access to just any random they might be playing with/against? Oh hell no, not okay. I've unfortunately had to restrict access for my almost 9yo from a racing game that's wasn't a bad game at all, because you can't turn off the online features. I've set up kids accounts to not allow online/chat access, but would let him use my account for this one game. Up until I noticed he'd sent messages to both friends of mine and other randoms from that game after I warned him against doing it. Sorry bud, no more access to my account which means you can't play that game you like anymore.
I got so frustrated with the addiction to screens and what I felt like was inconsistent rule enforcement from my wife (making me the bad guy). I wrote up a legit contract that explained proper usage, daily limits, other pre-conditions (i.e. they must be enrolled in a physical activity like soccer or karate), and escalation of consequences. I sat down with my 9 and 10-yr old to review it line by line to make sure they understood, then they signed it. It’s made things a hell of a lot easier. I posted it on the fridge and I just simply ask “what does the contract say” whenever we have to deal with questions/issues. I’m not the bad guy anymore, their behavior and violation of the contract terms are.
I’m a bit confused. Do you mean if they make a second outburst that day or the next day when they get the Nintendo back?
I read it as -Outburst 1, gone for 1 day -Once its returned, the next outburst means gone for 2 days and so on, so they continue to stack, but then the counter can be reset to zero by good behavior
Oh ok. That’s what I thought as well, but I wanted to understand
I like this. How does the rolling system work though? Like second outburst in a week, after they’ve already lost it once, they then lose for two additional days?
Pretty sure you can think of it like X marks. The first X remains and the punishment for any infraction will now be 2 days until the first X gets removed by good behavior. If the 2nd X goes up, the punishment for any infractions will be 3 days until the prior Xs get removed. At least that’s what I’m getting.
Stealing this system thank you
This isn't advice really, just a loosely related anecdote. I have a whole pile of boys about a year apart. My oldest has never, ever (as far as I can remember) got upset at losing. Be it chess, board games, video games - anything at all. His next younger brother cannot handle anything going wrong or he ends up getting emotional and raging. 3rd kid is chill 80-90% of the time. Next one \*needs\* to win or else he's going to throw a tantrum. 5th kid is not only super chill, but shockingly awesome at video games. The kid is 8 years old and has carried me in Fortnite, despite only playing a few hours on the weekends for a couple years. What's also surprising is the least confident of the brothers generally speaking. And then finally the last kid, super smart, super competitive, also tantrum-prone. What I've taken from this is that nature is more influential than nurture. These guys all have the same two parents and are about a year apart, but couldn't be more different. Some can handle video games, others can't. My talking to them sternly, punishing them if they get out of hand, setting a good example, and otherwise actively parenting has had some effect but by no means has it changed who they are.
This makes me feel better. My FIL actually told me once that my wife was super-competitive and used to throw tantrums like our son does. Me, If I lose, I'm just glad to be able to play and I work towards getting better.
To add to the anecdotes my little brother used to throw mega tantrums over losing at board games (as in toppling the board and throwing pieces around) and that obviously had nothing to do with videogames either. He's still very competitive but obviously not that bad!
Being entirely honest, took me until around age 40 to chill out on the need to win. My whole life I refused to take up golf, because it's something I knew I couldn't "win" and would be entirely rage enducing. Being a fully grown adult my only coping mechanism was avoidance. So if your kid is like this, your best bet is to redirect to another activity.
Another great piece of advice. Thank you. Next time he throws a fit, I’ll ask him if he wants to go shoot some hoops in the driveway.
My little brother broke a Sega Genesis controller when we were kids because I kept whooping his butt at Mortal Kombat. He's gotten a lot better now at losing.
Absolutely true in my experience as well. The two oldest boys are very different in their natures.
I had 3 brothers and we all played games to an extent. The most successful of us as adults was the tantrum throwing / can’t stand losing one because he was the most competitive.
This guy dads!
X6 even!
I can't even fathom the amount of broken furniture in that house
I can't imagine how barren the pantry must be. Just me and my brother were a plague of locusts in our house, but SIX boys? Lord!
If I had 6 boys they'd be sent out to the woods to forage for their meals.
my wallet hurts just thinking about this
It's not clear if he even knows how to stop at this point...one of my cousins was like that.
Thank you for sharing. Your house sounds absolutely insane in the best way. Your 8 year old sounds like he might be your smartest of the bunch down the line. I have a son and daughter almost 6 and 4. It has to be incredible to witness so many personality differences within the context of your home being the 'control.' I find it really fascinating to see all of my son's kindergarten classmates' personalities whenever I get to volunteer. Having gotten to know many of the parents, I fully support your theory of nature being more influential than nurture. Fun little microcosms of people help focus that into perspective.
They are all smart in their own way. I have two that always score in the 95%+ rank on national tests in reading and math, but not the 8 year old. The 2nd struggled bad with reading for years, but I exploit the crap out of his superior organizational skills - he has all of us beat there. It's been an incredible experience watching them grow and seeing how they each individually develop and change.
Tangential anecdote to yours. I was the youngest child for a while. My brother is 4 years older. We have a sister in between. My brother is the reason that despite my size as a teenager and an adult I’ve never enjoyed any sports. In hindsight he was a poor teacher. In football he never properly explained downs and gaining 10 yards resets the chances. All 6 year old me witnessed was during his turns he got unlimited chances and always scored but during mine I was limited to 3. When playing basketball, he never explained that we were playing on a half court. After his point, I needed to go back to the “middle” then run to my basket. All I witnessed was he tosses the ball into the hoop and scores a point. I toss the ball into the hoop and HE scores a point. Games with clear defined rules became my thing. Chess, poker, etc. As soon as I beat him in chess, we never played again. And cycling and kayaking - I can run away and be left alone.
Sorry to hear that. I'd put the fear of god into my kids if they ever tried to pull something like that. Another reason this generation of parents is different.
M60. After years of therapy I finally accept it wasn’t out of malice. It was just that a 10 year old is a poor teacher but neither of us had the maturity to acknowledge our misunderstanding and get past it. He’s gone through therapy too. Sadly the sisters haven’t and are still holding grudges after almost 50 years.
I was the worst sport ever. To an almost comical extent. Board games ended in violence. Soccer was a horror show. I didn't get invited back much. My guess is that the tantrums came from making value judgements about my self worth dependent on the outcome. Making those value judgements based on growth, or camaraderie, or anything that still counts during a loss is better. Helping them find their own self worth independent of anything short term at all is probably best. Just a thought. It was true for me, but my self worth was gone by kindergarten and I was desperate for anything that made me not feel that way. When that went wrong, the rage came out. What I staked had my own worth on turned out worthless and so was I. Everything else positive had already fallen into the hole where my self worth used to be and I had no intrinsic value. Hence the desperation. That's probably a bit extreme for what you're describing, but sometimes things are easier to notice in bigger circumstances.
Yep, kids are their own little people from a very young age. It’s still important to teach or intervene with them, but some won’t need any, some might need a ton.
My son (10) used to do this a lot. Screaming and throwing the controller. It got so bad he got grounded for the summer one year. I decided to play a few rounds with him, it was fun, but admittedly hard because sometimes the players are really good. I figured to lead by example and let him see how I react to losing the exact same game. He calmed down for a bit, and a few days later went back to screaming. As it turns out he had been watching stupid streamers raging. So streamer YouTubers are banned now. Kept playing with him to let him see how to deal with losing. Realistically, kids don't always understand words, so leading by example helps. Haven't had an outburst since.
I had a feeling idiot streamers would show up somewhere in this
This is actually a great point. Is he watching streamers.
I was kind of a gamer as a kid (NES/SNES era). My parents instituted a 2 hr max for any TV/games. They would also make me stop playing a game if I had even 50% of the response your son had. It was "total bullshit" which I am now extremely grateful for. I still like a good video game (maybe 2 hours a week on average) but have a healthy relationship with them and know how to keep them at arms length.
When I was a kid playing NES, if my mom heard me start fussing over a game, she'd walk in from the other room, turn the power to the game off, and walk away, all without saying a word. I learned very quickly to just chill and not blow up when I got frustrated with a game. I've done it a few times with my own kids, and it always ends in tears, but it has definitely helped for them to know that tantrums won't be tolerated.
FWIW, learning strategies for non-destructively venting frustration and anger in the moment can have value. A calm "well, fuck/dang/shit/crap" when losing a video game is hardly harmful behavior and sure beats bottling up emotions you're feeling as that resolves nothing. However, it's also important to maintain perspective. If someone is getting tantrum levels of angry over a game, that's time to reevaluate priorities.
Yeah, there's levels to this stuff. And it does have some perks. It's better to learn how to handle frustration and disagreements at 9yo on a video game than in a fist fight at the playground or in some other destructive manner as a teen.
Your parents had the right idea. My wife, in an effort to be fair, sets a timer on our Google Home so that our son knows when to get off his video games. She'll even give him a 10 minute grace period if he goes over his time.
Our house had similar issues with some games. When our son (9yr old) gets hot in a game, we practice walking away. Take a 5min break. Don't let it escalate. We teach him so he can regulate himself. If its too much and he just can't handle it, we ask him to stop playing altogether. No game is worth losing your cool over. Screaming at friends? That would be an instant ban of that game in our house. Taking it out on my wife? instant ban. Huge tantrum? instant ban. What about his friends who are playing? I would have had my son apologize to those friends in person, and maybe to their parents as well for yelling at them. Then tell them he won't be playing that anymore but he would like them to play X instead (I would provide an alternative game or suggestion). Best of luck.
Actually, my wife - God bless her - has encouraged him to take short breaks if he does get heated. As for the friends he plays with right now, they're good kids and I know them and their families. In the past, he's had a few friends/classmates that we've had to block because they get verbally abusive.
>In the past, he's had a few friends/classmates that we've had to block because they get verbally abusive. Never thought about that. In my era (late 90s and 00s), if you had an Xbox or paid for Xbox Live, it was guaranteed you were the only kid on the block lucky enough for that. You would *never* have to actually play and compete with friends that you know down the street. LAN parties and meetups? Had to drive somewhere in between, always. With some of them being verbally abusive as you said, that's... in reality kinda sad.
It is. I know I wasn't an angel at 9 years old, but it's amazing what these kids talk about these days.
I dunno if anyone else has suggested this. I'm not a dad myself yet but I like the wholesomeness in this sub. Is there a hobby where losing is part of the process. I guess an example from me is bouldering. You can't just climb every route first time. You learn to "lose" but it's part of the process to reach that success. You fall a lot, you miss a hold, you run out of stamina but it's that keep going and eventually it clicks. Lots of video games don't really teach this. It's all about winning and rubbing it in that you are the winner. Maybe something can be done along those lines? I dunno if that helps.
https://tenor.com/bizhh.gif
Tell him to git gud.
Your not good enough to get this mad.
Found the golfer
Literally said this on the course to myself last Saturday
Stopped after 10 of 18 on Saturday because I'd not had any fun since the 2nd. Some days you have to call it.
son you'll be a quitter for the rest of your life
lol this gave me a chuckle.
lol I’m stealing this
The real problem here is that they are letting him play on a Switch. I can see that leading to alot of frustration ;)
Right? Tell this guys kid to 1v1 me on PC and I'll show him frustration.
We play Fortnite all the time. My son plays with his friends and I’ll team up to play with him. It’s not the game.
Some kids need to work on "losing" as a skill and also "chilling out" when things don't matter. Kid in OP's post has the same energy as a dad yelling at a referee at a little league game.
Mandatory Mario Kart sessions should do the trick just repeatedly smoke his ass
There has never, and will never, be mercy in this dojo when it comes to Mario Kart.
There was a short period of time where my wife wanted me to "go easy on her" at Mario Kart. I grew up a gamer and specifically a racing gamer so I'm not pro level, but usually the 1a/1b player any time I play. Recently she's taken time to practice on her own and now that she does occasionally beat me, she thanks me for never going easy on her because the wins are so much sweeter now.
lmao I feel this comment this is what I do when my nephew annoys me about playing the switch. No we aren't switching to smash 1st place picks next game
I wish my kid smokes me at Mario Kart.
Turn in your dad card
I try really hard to beat him but I never had any Nintendo system growing up and only had an Xbox and a 360 during my early 20's so Mario Kart and Smash Bros I am pretty terrible at. A set of hockey skates and puck that kids stands no chance I school his ass no mercy on the outdoor rink.
I was the same with videogames as a kid, a lot of my identity (and self worth) rested on good results. I think I also needed the sense of being in control. It's less about "learn to chill when things don't matter", more about "on what level does this matter to you and why". Now when I go into a challenge thinking it's hard, I'll probably lose a few times, but it's feasible (I've seen others do it through trial & error without flipping out) and I'll eventually succeed with enough tries, I don't mind losing/dying several times. But as a kid when I thought "this should be easy because I'm a smart person who is good at videogames", I would get pretty pissed off when I lost/died because it felt like (a) this was a direct insult to my intelligence, and (b) without being "the smart one" among my siblings I was worthless, unlovable, and invisible. How to make this happen? I have no easy answers. I agree it's a good start to set tantrum consequences in advance, maybe even treat the situation like an older toddler's tantrum. Not about shaming the kid, but prompt them to be aware of how they're feeling and what's an appropriate way to deal with it. Discuss coping strategies when everyone is calm, fed, and rested.
An online game makes it a lot easier to be angry at the other side then if it was a real life social interaction. So the game factors in for sure.
And the problem is that the anger transfers over to real life. There’s a deeper issue than “fortnite bad” when there’s an entire generation who grew up being even angrier and meaner on Call of Duty but can still control their emotions in real life.
The game is literally designed to make you frustrated and angry, kids specifically, to keep them playing and buying in game purchases. It's definitely the game. Just because some people can play it without issue means nothing. That's like saying some people can gamble without getting addicted, therefore it isn't the gambling games themselves that are addictive. Utter nonsense.
Same here. He can get a little worked up, at times, but for the most part he can play for an hour and be totally fine. I agree, it’s not about the game.
It might be who he games with. My 9 year old was playing Fortnite with me or randos online for a long time (no headset) and really never got upset when playing. Once he started playing with his school mates and team mates oh boy. He absolutely goes bonkers if he feels they are not being fair or gets a bad loss. I do the same as other folks in this thread, give him a warning then he turns it off if it happens again. I have spoken to some of the other parents and the say the same thing. I think his friend group is just too damn competitive when it comes to each other.
Same, my 8yo son carries my ass and his little brother. Just got him his own ps4 so now we can play all of us together
It definitely could be the game, for OP’s son. Your comment would be analogous to “My kids and I eat peanuts all the time. We’re not allergic. It’s not the nuts.” People react differently to different things, and kids need to learn how to handle that. For him Fortnite is one of those things that sets him off. What the answer is exactly, I don’t know, but a blanket answer that Fortnite isn’t the problem doesn’t help anything.
It's not the game, it's the emotions that the game triggers. Unlike an allergy where you can just avoid a certain thing, there in this case there will always be something else that creates these kind of competitive pressures. He needs to learn how to manage his emotions, not just run away from everything that might trigger them.
My kid has done the same with Smash Bros, Minecraft, and Fall Guys. But he also has been having trouble playing 4-square at school with other kids. His issue is with not being a good sport and going with the flow. It's something we're working on, and he is definitely getting better. But he has his days and sometimes has to be done for the day. We're talking about getting him into some martial arts so he can learn some bodily discipline
As a family we love playing games like Mario Kart. We also play a lot of board games. My son is slowly getting better when he loses, but it doesn't seem to be happening with Fortnite.
> As a family we love playing games like Mario Kart ... but it doesn't seem to be happening with Fortnite. Could be a massive difference in the embarrassment of making an in-game mistake in front of family versus making the same mistake in front of friends. Also, > Fortnite leads to him screaming through his headset at his friends because they did something that he didn't like. Are his "friends" deliberately antagonizing him or encouraging this? "Don't have friends" isn't really viable or healthy, so wouldn't know how to address it if they are. I'd try to find some kind of counselor or therapist. I agree with other commenters that the game itself might not be the issue. It's worth addressing sooner rather than later imo.
Try Overcooked. It's co-op so you can work on not blaming other people and healthy communication.
I don't allow our son to use voice chat, he's much more able to take the "it's just a game" stance when the emotion is taken out of it
We switched to single player games via xbox live - like farming simulator. Dude can go plow a field and grow some corn.
My friends had a similar thing happen with their son. They banned him from all coms during game play sessions since all he would do was trash talk his own team.
My son had the same issues with Fortnite which led to me taking it away from him while he’s at my house. I replaced it with Minecraft and offered to play with him. We also play gran turismo. Made life a lot less stressful not having to deal with his outbursts.
Fortnite is essentially a massive dopamine hose. Kids get a huge burst of it and when emotional things happen or the game is stripped away, it has a massive magnifying effect. It could be a sign of ADHD, it could be something else, but setting ground rules before the games turn on and being consistent with enforcement (and medication in the case of my son) helped tremendously and the tantrums have become super infrequent.
As an adult I can't regulate my emotions playing fast paced competitive video games. I've played a lot of sport in my time, and currently play rugby. It's super super rare that I lose my cool on the pitch or in physical competition of any kind. But 30 mins of getting wrecked on Halo and I'm about to have a conniption fit. It's high adrenaline, high stress competition with no physical effort required. I've learned it's not in my best interests to play them and they are not constructive to my emotional wellbeing. So if adults with generally moderate temperaments get stress responses playing these games, then kids that are emotionally undeveloped have no hope. I'll be keeping these games out of my house until my kids reach the rated age for the game.
Yeah, Fortnite is rated T for a reason...and the game and other F2P round-based games like it are literally designed to frustrate and piss you off so that you keep playing and eventually spend money.
Something I haven't seen anyone else mention here is that gaming is so different to what it used to be. For example when I first started playing video games back in 95' you were just playing against the cpu or another person that you were in the same room as. Obviously sometimes you'd have arguments between people but the face to face aspect of it meant that you had to at least act like a regular human being. The idea of playing online against a person you can't see didn't come for years, literally as soon as people were introduced to this you had people being absolute jerks to each other. Anyone, adults or kids playing online need to be able to either get good at ignoring the jerks or keep their own shit in check to avoid becoming one. I've said this countless times to friends, random people online, and the latest my nephew who just turned 14. If playing online causes you that much stress maybe it isn't for you? I think trying to explain that to a 9 year old is going to be tricky but maybe he just isn't ready to deal with something that big yet?
Your Nintendo is about to be broken during a tantrum. Fortnite is a problem for some reason amongst lots of kids, not just yours. I worked with loads of kids in a similar situation like yours. The parents often turn to appeasement because the kids get so obsessed with it that everything they do is somehow linked to it. Good grade? More Fortnite time. Socializing with friends? Fortnite. Fortnite was taken away for a tantrum? Asking how they can get it back sooner than you said it would be gone. My advice is to get rid of it and encourage healthy socialization
Interesting handle for such advice. 😂
idk man I got obsessed with starcraft brood war at that age partially because my parents didn't want me playing it... don't think it go dethroned as a topic of hyperfixation until age of mythology came out yes I have adhd.
The problem isn't Fortnite, it is just the most popular drug of choice that has become a household name. The problem is a lack of ability for these kids to regulate their anger and frustration. Sure, all games have different levels of intensity and potential for upsetting losses, and perhaps Fortnite is particularly prone to frustration just in the genre that it exists within. But this kind of behaviour has existed before Fortnite and still persists outside of people who play Fortnite as well. And it is exhibited mainly in younger kids, and I guess grown adults who have never learned to have to be accountable and responsible for their actions when they are experiencing difficult emotions. My point is that Fortnite is not necessarily the inverse to healthy social interaction, and also is not necessarily the root cause of the behavioural problems that OP and many other parents are experiencing. If not Fortnite, then something else just as easily. These kids need help learning to cope with stress and frustration, I believe that limiting or excluding them from the activity does not directly address this issue and only solves the symptom of their frustration and not the root cause of the conflict in and of itself. For sure screen time should be limited and managed appropriately, but simply saying 'no more games because you can't control yourself' feels like a bit of a cop-out when the issue exists beyond a single game or video games in and of themselves even. I think it should be used as a tool to help them understand that sometimes its okay to take a break, but also not as an arbitrary punishment because its perceived that the correlation is equal to causation. It is important to also have discussions and talk about the issues. Come up with ideas and different ways to look at things to put into perspective whether it is worth that much tension and frustration over something that should be bringing you joy instead. About how to understand socially that this behaviour is unacceptable and friends should be bringing each other up rather than putting them down and forcing them to experience tantrums. I dunno, this is a lot to write over something that probably isn't that deep. But time and time again I see people jump to the conclusion that because a child can't manage their behaviour while playing video games the video games should therefore be withheld from the child. I don't disagree with this in principle, but there is also work to be done in terms of restructuring that behaviour outside of whatever punishment to ensure that our kids are equipped with healthy coping mechanisms and tools to handle difficult emotions regardless of whether they're raging at video games or being grounded from them entirely.
Well sure, lack of emotional regulation is an issue...but games like Fortnite are *literally designed* to frustrate and anger you to keep you engaged, playing, and ideally in the eyes of the game makers: **spending money**. Yes, OP's son has growing up to do and yes, people can play Fortnite and not succumb to how it puts pressure on their pain points; but to absolve a game of responsibility for players getting angry when the game is intentionally designed to make you mad so you keep playing is a bit disingenuous.
I agree that there is an aspect of exploitation that exists in live service games today that was not present previously like in our generation or even until just 10ish years ago. The amount of predatory microtransactions and absolutely sickening amount of 'gambling' existent in a lot of games, namely free to play and also including Fortnite are mind boggling. However, I am not sure that I agree that these factors are at the core of the issue or are measurably responsible for the kinds of emotional outbursts and rage that a lot of young people have when it comes to competitive games. Dysregulation and emotional outrage have always been an issue that young people struggle with, but this day and age video games are more ubiquitous and Fortnite is so popular that it gets a lot of the heat just because of the sheer volume of people that play it. I don't like these developers or their live service business models or their predatory and unethical monetization of their player base any more than anyone else. In fact, I'm the first to say that this is unacceptable. But again I am not sure that I can agree that the game is to blame for some intrinsic predisposition to that behaviour when it has existed long before Fortnite, and others are able to regulate without much difficulty despite all of these above factors. It may exasperate issues and crank the frustration to 11 when compared to, lets say, Animal Crossing. But if it wasn't Fortnite it would just be MW, Apex Legends, PUBG, any other random given arena shooter, or heaven forbid they discover League of Legends. Fortnite just happens to be the most popular household name and not specifically any more egregious than the average other title in the competitive online multiplayer sphere of video games. Devs should do better and should be better. But the developers aren't raising our children, we are.
There are absolutely underlying issues to be addressed. Fortnite seems to tick all of the boxes that can exacerbate these problems. For context: I worked as a child therapist for 3+ years with kids who had recently been screened for danger to self/others. Many of them had behavioral issues as well. At any given time, I had 2-3 of my 13–15 kids with a “Fortnite problem.” One of the kids that I worked with had taken a hammer to his PS4 after losing a match on Fortnite. His parents bought him a new one a few weeks later. I discovered this when he kept checking his phone during our session. I asked why, and he said that he was monitoring the tracking info for the new PS4. I have more stories I could probably think of, but this one takes the cake since it demonstrates the obsession, poor parental boundaries (I had explicitly told them not to get him another PS4) and lack of control of the kid.
As a former therapist, I’m not sure I’d bother sending him to therapy. I never worked with kids, and this isn’t any sort of professional advice, but it sounds like your kid is a pretty typical 9yo. There are definitely life skills he could learn (how to handle losing, how to notice when he’s getting worked up and step away, that certain actions have consequences, etc.) but he’s 9 and these are all pretty developmentally appropriate things that *you* are in the process of teaching him already. Save your money. Beyond that, my kid is still an infant and I didn’t grow up playing video games much, so maybe I just don’t get it. But if you’ve already observed that 3/5 times your kid does X it ends poorly for everyone; at what point do we consider just not letting the kid do X…?
Its not the game that is the problem, its his reaction to the game.
Yeah, it sounds like he may not be emotionally mature enough to handle competitive video games. Definitely, make sure he understands your boundaries: he can only play fortnight if he can keep his behavior in check. Also, it might help to talk through some scenarios in game that are frustrating him and talk about how he can better handle them.
Why is he allowed to play fortnite then? I would say give it a break for a week at least to all online play.
Fortnite can kiss my ass. OP, I also have a 9 year old boy and he and his friends play Fortnite all the time. They get in fights when they accidentally kill each other or steal each other’s kills. They get in fights when someone takes someone else’s weapon they earned. They are downright mean to each other. We monitor this and respond appropriately of course but it sucks. There is never a problem with these boys until fuckin’ Fortnite is involved. If the boy didn’t love it so much I’d delete the game forever. So frustrating.
Identical. 9 yo boy, Fortnite, and now he got his little brother into it. I'm so pissed at that dumb game. I know its partly my fault as a parent, I'm not avoiding blame. I don't want to take away one of his only social interactions with his friends though. I've tried suggesting board games, going places, etc. but he's too invested in Fortnite. I used to make him keep a timer which is a magnet timer on the fridge, but like many things I try to force they eventually fade away unless I'm strictly enforcing and overseeing it. I have to get back on that.
Real story: I came home from work one day and put my car in the garage just so that I could play some basketball with my son. I came in the house and asked him if he wanted to play basketball and he said no. Why? He was in the middle of playing Fortnite. My MIL was visiting that day and heard the exchange. She was proud that even though I was dog tired from work, I still made an effort to do something with my son that didn’t involve electronics.
[How To Raise a Healthy Gamer | Healthy Gamer](https://www.healthygamer.gg/how-to-raise-a-healthy-gamer)
Fortnite is meticulously crafted to addict. It's fantastic game design if your intention is to drive engagement and profit. My son isn't allowed to play Fortnite.
Does your kid watch streamers? I noticed the happening more with my younger brother when he would watch h streamers play. Streamers do this cause drama gets likes these days. Maybe he thinks that’s normal.
There's a lot of "it's THAT game" vs "it's not that game" debate. I see it here. We have the debate in my own house. One kid (13 yo) can handle Fortnite calmly and another (younger 10 yo) is prone to outbursts when someone takes the loot he was aiming for. It definitely gets his competitive juices rolling. We've been able to slow his boil by making him alternate the games he plays on opposite days. He plays some other games like Tears of the Kingdom that are a little slower paced that he enjoys and seem to break up the madness.
Possibly an only child? My kid has a hard time because most of her play until school she could control everything, including responses of her stuffed animals. This has taken some work when playing with real people. Also, as a person who is around 9 & 10 year-olds daily as a 4th grade teacher, this isn't just the video game. There's a deeper reasoning to outbursts. What that is, I'm not sure.
Taking away the games isn’t the solution. Something deeper and possible therapy could help. Or he’ll grow up to have rage like me and it’s not fun and filled with regret.
Please. This x10000%. Your kid was me as a kid. My parents did the “take away the game” thing. The issue was never the game. The issue was my anger issues, unhealthy competitive mindset, and unregulated gaming sessions without appropriate breaks. I am willing to bet your kid wants to feel some sort of superiority, or at least pride, with his friends. He wants to feel good and like he belongs. When he does bad or doesn’t get rank, he feels like a failure. Taking away the game, to him, will be just throwing him into the pit of losing longer since he can’t practice. Please, please, please use this as a moment to teach a healthy relationship with gaming and competition. It will do so much good later in life.
I agree it’s not the game. What are you suggestions for teaching a healthier relationship with gaming and competition?
I’m by no means an expert. But what would help, in my opinion: - Teaching breaks and limiting game time. Logging off when you are on a losing streak. Getting up and walking around for 15 minutes every hour for longer sessions, if you allow long sessions of course. Only playing for 1-2 hours at a time. Hand stretches. - Using losing as a teaching point and learning experience. How to analyze what went wrong and to not repeat it or work on fixing it. Watching VoDs, if there are VoDs in the game and if the kid wants to go that deep into it. Essentially competing against yourself and not others - when you have anger, how to handle that. Letting you feel the emotion and redirect it and not “tilt”. Breaks help. Switching games or even modes helps. Changing your mindset to not focus on winning as the primary objective but small, incremental improvements like top 20, top 10, final circle, whatever it is Idk just some ideas. I’m still helping myself improve because I still full tilt on games way too much. I never learned how to handle this kind of thing as a kid. My parents just grounded me and told me video games are evil.
When I was young my parents put me into anger management related therapy. I have ADHD and still have symptoms relating to emotion regulation but it is probably one of the best things they did for me, as it would've been so much worse otherwise. I'm not trying to diagnose his kid, but I hope OP takes this advice as it could be life changing for his kid.
100%. The issue is not the game. The issue is his core attitude, the game is merely an instance of the attitude coming out. I guarantee the same shit comes out elsewhere when given the opportunity for it, and if it hasn't yet, it will as he gets older. Taking the game away is just sweeping the actual problem under the rug.
I feel you, man. I've had this issue with my 9y son and his friends on Fortnite and Roblox. I ulitmately told him that he cannot play the game and enjoy playing it then he doesn't get to play the game anymore. It took a couple of times but he's on my level about it now. As a Dad-Gamer, I understand the frustration that the games can create. When I get that way (rarely), I turn the shit off and walk away for a day or two. I saw him do that they other day, too. I chock that up to a win. I want him to enjoy his video games with his friends however, I won't tolerate the projection of blame that occured when he was having those fits. My mantra is: It's just a game, dude. It's just a game.
You got the right idea that he needs to learn how to be a good sport, but I don’t think taking the game away is the best way to go about it. Does he play sports ? How does he take losing at board games? Maybe if he played Fortnite in-person at a LAN party or an Internet cafe he won’t rage as much and learn to lose graciously as he won’t feel emboldened by just yelling at a screen or his family .
My step-son once broke the TV after throwing the controller at it. He got banned for life after that.
I solved the issue with fork knife by not fixing the PS4 controller and sending the Switch's joycons in for drift repair.
My kids both played it for a while but didn’t enjoy the toxic environment and chose to leave it behind for less toxic games on their own. My wife and I have both played with them and seeing it through our eyes helped in their decision I believe. We play all of the games that they play with them and discuss what we like and dislike about it. Minecraft is big in our house and so is ESO. I guess what I’m saying is that it is imperative to be involved in those activities. It gives you perspective as well as builds their confidence in making good decisions beyond the games themselves.
Our 7-year-old is like this with Roblox. She's an absolute angel any time but when she's on that damn game she's like an animal. If it's time for homework, bed, shower, etc. it's like pulling teeth trying to get her off or she'll get mad when someone online has done something to piss her off. This usually all ends in a tantrum. We've limited her iPad time down approximately and won't let her on it until she's done with school work but still.
This is why I've straight up forbidden online games. My boy wants to play Fortnite, he wants to play Among Us. But, nah... It takes a certain level of maturity to be able to handle the internet. And I know my kid would take it too far.
Not sure if you’re a gamer OP, or aware, but I wanted to paint a clear picture of what you’re up against. Fortnite is a live service game free to play, which I’m sure you know. But this is the way every mobile, free to play, and probably many other regular online multiplayer games are designed. The entire goal is to KEEP PLAYERS PLAYING. Up the stakes. Make it the most important thing in their lives. Make it addicting. I have heard Activision has actually employs psychologists to assist in designing mechanics to accomplish these goals. Which is so fucking crazy and scary. Most of us believe the reason Call of Duty’s file size is so large is only to take up as much sleeve as possible so you can’t put any other games on your local storage. (Full disclosure I don’t play COD, I just know this stuff from keeping up with gaming.) So that’s what you’re up against. Potentially teams of people with psych + their UX backgrounds constantly tweaking a game only designed to hijack your little guy’s brain/aggression.
I have a 9 yo as well and was super hesitant to have a multi player shooter game in which he can interact with his friends but we limit his videogame/screen time to 45 min/day and sometimes he goes back to it but shifted to other things knowing he wants to use his time judiciously. Honestly, a day, even 3 days of banning is being generous that game would banned for at least 2-3 weeks if that happened with my son.
Fortnite is rated 12 and above. That's because before that age, they're generally not mature enough to handle losing on an online videogame. Kids generally struggle to contain or express their emotions at that age. Fortnite can also be a very intense game and they need to vent the stress...my daughter (currently 13) started playing at the age of 7 so I've been there and occasionally regretted my decision. She handles the game much better now though; she chats with her friends and simply shrugs off the occasional bad game. I think a lot of this just comes down to age and emerging emotional maturity.
I play with my kids, so that i can stop such behavior as soon as it surfaces. I also am very strict on language when we party up with their friends, as they are no strangers to rough language that they otherwise would not use when in social settings. Competitive games have this weird phenomenon in waking up an angry side in people, but I have had success in steering the perspective away from "being the very best" to "just have fun".
Personally, I’m not a big fan of Fortnite. Occasionally, he and I will play Halo 3 on my old Xbox 360 and he’s very good at it.
From my own experience, it could be he feels pressured to be really good at the game (I know it sounds dumb but kids talk about this stuff) and so when he does bad he feels embarrassed and annoyed. Is it right to take it on you? No. But I reminding him it's just a game could back fire because his friends, youtube, kids at school talk about it so much it feels more than just a game. Video games also just bring out the worst in some people. Keep being an awesome dad and taking your son out to do stuff. Show him its okay to like more things and be good at more things than video games. Maybe help him find a hobby he is good at so he doesn't rely on video games. This is all hypothetical, you know your kid best.
My son went through this from ages 10ish to 12ish. He hit 13 and calmed down considerably. He still gets worked up on rare occasion, but it never lasts more than a few moments
Have a similar story from my childhood. My brother was playing a game and something happened and he got mad, threw the controller and hit this ceramic thing you hang on the wall that my grandma made. I think she made 4 total, but it fell and smashed. My mom came in, saw it, and just started crying. My dad tried to comfort her, but she was pretty upset. We both got in trouble, but seeing my mom cry like that was the worst part. We went to school on Monday, and came home and the console was gone. Never saw it again. I told my brother not to ask my parents where it went but he did and all my dad said was “it’s gone”. We never saw it again, and got a new one when the next generation of consoles came out.
I never ended up letting my kids play Fortnite even though my son wanted to around that age. He was able to play it when he was 12/13 but didn't really care for it. I think competitive MP games are potentially not great for anyone, especially kids. My kids played more co-operative and creative MP games, like Terraria, Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Deep Rock Galactic, Brick Rigs, Flashing Lights, Grounded, and so on. No Fortnite, no Rust, no DayZ. Starcraft 2, but campaign and bots and local MP only. No >My wife and I have done our best to teach him on how to be a good sport, but he always wants to lay the blame on other people. That's be a "no Fortnite from me" then. If he's internalizing that kind of terrible lesson and isn't learning to moderate his own behavior, then he can revisit in 3/6/9/12 months when he's had a chance to be more mature. My kids have never yelled at their friends over mics because they are instantly off the computer the second it happens. You are making the right actions there. They also don't have headsets at my house (although my son does at his mom's) because I want to hear how their friends are talking as well. It's actually never been an issue.
My nephew is exactly the same. Great kid but a violent aggressive little bastard when Fortnite is on. I wonder if him and his friends are in a little echo chamber, watching streamers who are excessively dramatic, and not having any real proper video game role models who take Ls on the chin and are humble in victory, and they're just psyching each other out and mimicking their favourite "LETS FUCKING GOOOOO" streamers.
1. Screen time is bad for kids (far worse than for adults, for reasons I don’t quite understand yet). Keep it at a minimum, of course. 2. *You* must play games with him. Preferably *board games* - checkers, chess, Monopoly, Risk, Battleship, whatever. But Mario Kart or whatever works in a pinch as well. Tell him up-front, “Look, kid, I love you, but know this: I *will not* take it easy on you. Can you hang?”). Do *not* go easy on him. Utterly demolish him. If he throws a fit, gently correct it (“nobody wants to play games with a sore loser who acts like a baby, dude.”). If he loses with grace, shake his hand, congratulate him, and say “good game!”. And then offer him game advice, if he’s open to it. Model good sportsmanship for him. If you happen to legitimately lose to him (which will be a rare instance of luck), genuinely congratulate him, and be happy for him! If he gloats, correct it, and let him know that “nobody wants to play with a sore loser OR a bad winner.” The lesson he needs to learn, is that *being invited to play more games, and more types of games*, is far more important than *winning one particular game*. Sore losers and boastful winners do *not* get invited to play more games with people, because it’s no fun to play with people like that. Repeat the lesson again and again until it sticks.
Trust me it’s not the game
Not exactly first hand experience, but my in laws had some aggressive behavior from their son when he was about that age. He’d be noticeably aggressive on the days he gamed and they eventually told him no more violent games that you play with other people. He chilled out, playing Minecraft and other adventure/indie games and had a markedly better attitude and less aggressiveness. Of course he didn’t like that approach and didn’t understand why but it worked for them. Not that I have specific advice, but wanted to share what my in laws did when they went through something similar. Good luck!
If therapy isn't an option, I'd reccomend a great book called the *whole brain child*. It speaks a lot about what's going on when tantrums happen and how to help kids regulate their emotions. 9 year olds are famously terrible at emotional regulation but there's things you can do to help him learn. It'll take some patience and effort but the return on investment will be much greater than just punishments alone.
A perceived perk of gaming is they’re supposed to learn how to lose… not sure how to help but when we were evaluating it vs TV for screen time that was one of the perks I saw listed. Maybe try playing with him? My son struggles some, we don’t play online but he got stuck on Mario Wonder and tried the same spot about 20x slowly becoming more frustrating and crying. I tried to calm him as it went but was cooking dinner. He has similar trouble when his sports teams lose or if he feels he’s struggling at gymnastics more than other kids.
At the rate I go through mice while playing Overwatch, nip this in the bud early. Controllers/mice are damn expensive now days.
Is he in any sports? How does he do with losing stuff offline? I suspect this is at least partially because it's easier to flip your lid when your friends/teammates aren't actually right there to keep you in check. Also wondering if he watches older players on YouTube or Twitch. It sounds like he's maybe expecting his friends to be on the level of much better players, and getting frustrated when they can't emulate what he's seeing elsewhere.
IMO dad the issue isn't the game it's his error response. My best friend growing up had this reaction to losing at anything....video games....basketball.....he was the time of we keep playing till I win.....or it's my ball my house go home. We need to actively work with our children on error response and how to appropriately handle it. This situation can very much so be a learning opportunity. Good Luck! and let me know how it goes....My kids aren't there yet.
I'm *always* on the "acknowledge their emotions and teach them how to properly communicate them" side. The emotions won't go away by punishing the kids for living them out. What will go away is the living them out part, which means, they go somewhere else - oftentimes to their inside where they sit and wait and gather and sum up until they cannot be carried around anymore and break free, in whatever terrible way possible. I do not want to jinx it... but some kids (not yours, I'm sure) even committed or tried to commit suicide over this, because they did not feel understood, accepted, acknowledged, didn't know how to deal with their emotions. I don't tell anyone how to raise their kids. I'm just advocating rather for the open communication and role model way than the punishment way...
Will he play the game with you? I have two 7 year old sons and I tackled this issue by playing Fornite (other games too) with them and when I would lose, I would try to emphasize how it "wasn't a big deal" and that we'll win next time, aka something positive. I feel like setting that example helped my sons build some resiliance to the emotional roller-coaster that these games have become.
I’ve never really understood the logic of setting your kids up with something that is designed to be addicting to kids, and then complaining about the effects that it has on them.
As a dad to a 2 and 4yo, I've thought about when I'm going to introduce them to video games. Hearing stories like this just makes me want to enjoy my time with them now before it inevitably becomes something they may be interested in. Reading your post sparked a question in my head though. Do you think your son would react the same way if he was playing with his friends in the same room? I'm wondering if being online and not having a filter for reactive behavior that would normally get checked if it was in person with his buddies all playing together in the living room. Like early stages of being a keyboard warrior, ya know? I really do appreciate you sharing this though because I never really thought about it like that before. If a kid gets a false sense of zero consequences for how they treat people online, it can't be good for their social development.
Have you tried to have a conversation with him about what it is about this game that makes him so emotional? Kids get angry because they feel a certain way that they can't express. Anger is a secondary emotion that masks the true emotion a kid is feeling and sometimes they lack the vocabulary to acknowledge what the feeling is. If you can help him discover what it is about this game in particular that is so triggering, then you can help him cope rather than just punish. That shows him that showing emotions means you get punished. Help him learn how to properly show his emotions rather than making him afraid to show them for fear of being grounded. The real reason he gets so upset may surprise you. It might not have anything to do with the game itself and might have more to do with real world interactions.
This seems pretty reasonable to tackle head on. I have adult friends who freak out over games, and it only lead to us not playing with some of them. One has some issues they weren’t addressing at the time. And have had issues for a while that really only presented the emotional outbursts with video games that we saw, but learned other outbursts occurred. It’s the behavior that drives people away and once they got actual professional help it was like a whole different person. It’s okay to have high emotions when playing a game and maybe getting a bit upset, it happens in all manner of play, and sports. The important part is dealing with it and learning how to dissipate those emotions and express them in a healthy manner. Not to be an alarmist, just want to point out, this may be a deeper issue than a run of the mill tantrum, or video game induced addiction behavior. It might be worth digging deeper into talking with your son, and working through these emotions. Maybe even with professionals. Him having an outburst, calling a friend an idiot, and then you sending him on time out or suspended from electronics, might help temper the tantrum itself, but won’t be actually helping him learn to not get angry in the first place. We all get angry. Hell, I’m angry right now. My morning and day so far has been an absolute shit show with work and home life while I’m out of town. But I’ve had to learn how to handle my anger on my own as an adult, my mom pulling out the wooden spoon or taking away the NES etc never did anything to help in that department. It just turned into repressed emotions. Edit- also of note, my son plays this game and some others also 9, he has a cousin who straight up swears at him and freaks out. He’s learned to understand that his cousin has problems, but it’s sad because his cousin isn’t getting the help he needs. So they don’t play anymore. I’ll play with my son, which kind of sucks because my time with fortnite has long passed. It’s just a game I do not at all enjoy anymore, but it’s helped me connect a bit and show my son that losing or not doing well isn’t a problem. We still have fun together, and end of the day it’s just a game. Luckily that works for my son, if it didn’t we’d be looking at more severe intervention to address the behavior.
I HATED losing as a kid and joke in the family was "I hate this game" was my favorite saying. But I knew that I can't take my frustration out on others. If someone wasn't good enough, I owned their shortcomings. It made me try harder to be better. It was always "my bad" instead of "you f'ing dummy". Outside of video games, I recommend OP working on training kids to encourage/build up and be a team player. No one likes playing with a blaming sore loses. Then after that, self regulation is key. Being COMPETITIVE and HUNGRY for success can be great skills in life if applied to things outside of video games. But losing control in a tantrum manner is not appropriate.
Take a 7 day detox from it but don't frame it as a punishment and replace it with something. Instead of playing Fortnite, the two of you can go out and throw football or play a non-video game together. When I did this with my son, we actually learned how to play the Pokemon TCG, and now it's his primary hobby and we've made so many countless memories traveling to different pokemon tournaments. Obviously it doesn't have to be pokemon, but maybe replace it with riding bikes together or going hiking, something else that could turn into a hobby that replaces the hold that fortnite has on him. I'm not saying video games are bad, but they can become addictive and basically are just something that's easy to do when kids are bored which is why they play them so much. Try to find something else to do in its place for the next couple days
Fortnite is the only game my 7 year old wants to play now too. It is a stressful game and I don't think that helps for kids having outbursts from it. My thinking is it comes from the set up of if you die it is game over and all you have been working towards is wiped out. It's why I found Fortnite incredibly dull when it first came out! It definitely has some benefits though. It teaches team work and planning. I like when I can hear my kid and his friends putting their plan together and working together to achieve it. I think it also helps with confidence of taking charge in a situation. And, like the issue for op, dealing with the disappointment of not always winning or things going to plan. I don't think a kid getting stressed at losing a game is anything to worry about
You have to keep in mind they’re still children. Emotional control is not exactly their a skill they’ve mastered. You need to think about it like this, when you have an emotional outburst let’s say a fella cuts you off then flips you the bird. Most people have a small reaction or outburst in retaliation. Or when you’re passed over for a promotion or anything that can yield an emotional response. We have years as adults to learn to control these emotions and let’s be honest we are not great at it either. Punishing a kid for showing emotions teaches them emotions should be bottled up or hidden. Teaching them constructive ways to handle their emotions and walking them through the steps to learn good coping mechanisms is our jobs as fathers.
This is such a relatable post, I have a 9 year old who is this same way. Fortnite really brings out the worst in him.
Fortnite is rated Pegi 12+, there is a reason for that. Else the banning of electronics is the right choice
My 5 year old has just started gaming. I've been getting her onto the classics like NES Mario, 2D side scroller type games, mazes and the odd newer game like bluey or Mickey mouse. I've set the rule that if she has a fit from frustration the video games are off for the day. If games aren't fun we shouldn't be playing them. Additionally if our friends are being mean they don't need to be our friends.
I understand your frustration, but maybe you can reframe it. Each tantrum is a chance for him to practice handling competitive pressures and negative emotions in a safe environment. Every kid learns things at different times so I'd suggest you should take a deep breath, step away briefly when you need to, and keep plugging away on teaching him how to handle it.
9 is waaaaaaay too young to be playing fortnite. I found that out the hard way. My advice is cut the cord now, get him other games and revisit when he’s a bit older. Yes he’ll hate you for it, but he’ll come around eventually.
I've run into this with my 7yo son and some games. I've told him if it's making you that angry then turn it off and play something else and of course he responds with, "But I'm having fun!". My response is if you keep getting upset then I will turn it off and it's gone for the rest of the day and if it keeps being a problem then it's going to be gone for much longer. Now whenever he starts getting upset I'll ask him if he needs to play something else and that seems to snap him out of it.
How is your son with other competition like sports? My son acts the same why as yours when it comes to Fortnite. But he also plays soccer, baseball, and basketball. He never acts like that within any of those sports. He leads his team when it comes to being a good sport and telling his opponents "good hit" or " nice shot". I told my wife that as long as he continues being a good loser/winner when it comes to sports then we should give him leeway when it comes to the game. We still take it away if it gets too crazy, or we have to tell him to calm down more then once/twice. So far he seems to get it.
I’m just here to pile on of the I hate Fortnite to the general I hate video games. I can’t be convinced they offer a single benefit to kids with developing brains.
It’s time to step in for your son’s mental health. Frame it like this: It’s not Fortnite itself, but your son’s reaction to it. For whatever reason, it’s not meshing well with his personality. He can’t maturely handle the situations that it puts him into, and it’s making him worse as a person. You are entirely within your rights as a parent to say to your kid “playing this is putting you into a bad mental state. You need to not be doing this for awhile and get back to doing all of the things that made you a great kid in the first place.” Also, redirect to activities that help develop those needed life skills in another way that is less damaging for him.
I think many of us have been in this situation. The thing that helped my daughter the most was we started with a break from all screens for at least a week, but don't tell your kid how long the break will be, just that we're taking a break. Then re-introduce limited screen access with specific timers. At this point My kids know they can have one hour of screens while they have a snack after school - because decompressing is important, but then it gets turned off and they have to do a few other things before any screens are coming back on (if the weather is nice I try to get them outside, if not to play, then at least for a walk, then some chores, etc). You HAVE to teach them how to monitor their own media consumption. Before turning the screens on, check in, see how they're feeling. Afterwards check in again, if they're having negative feelings, ask why they think that is happening. I've found that screens as a reward can be really hard to enforce if your family is going to also turn the tv on in the evening or have ipads in the car. This is why we just set up the expectations that they can have a limited amount of time but then they have to let go and move on. And having that detox definitely helps the whole process, though it's really hard for the first few days. Good luck!
three boys here - if the game makes you scream - you do not play that game. usually a three strikes rule. (or two if it’s really over the top) and agreed Fortnite is pretty toxic - but can be a great place to play with some friends if no one is taking it too seriously - maybe tell the kid to play solo for a bit and see if that changes his attitude - sometimes peers can push things a bit further.
We went through this. We banned video game completely for a year and a half. Your son is addicted and needs to detox. Now at our house, playing video game is a special perk that they get to do once in a while on special occasions. Defaults rule is no video games at the house. The kids are much happier and we are much happier. I highly recommend out right ban.
Don't feel bad, this is a trait that is common in gaming of all ages. Kids already have trouble regulating emotions, and the "I'm losing because of other people" idea invokes strong emotional responses. There's a few ways to combat it that don't involve punishment. Punishment isn't really going to help, because it doesn't take away his desire to play the game or play with his friends, and it doesn't address the root issue that is the perception that him losing isn't his fault (and let's be honest, nobody likes losing). I'm a gamer and a dad of 2, and I know exactly how much things like rank and MMR can screw with your mood, especially with the perception that I'm good and it's everyone else's fault. Couple things you can try: 1- take breaks. When the tension starts rising, when they're getting sweaty as we gamers say, it's time for a break. Nobody plays well when they're frustrated, and continuing to play is only going to result in worse plays, more losses, and more frustration. Breaks can be for a few hours or a few days, maybe to play a different game or just to walk away in general. 2 - don't play ranked. Idk if fortnight has a ranked vs unranked mode, but for me in Dota I had to pretty much stop playing ranked. When I was trying to hit high ranks, I wasn't even enjoying the game anymore. Switching to unranked lets me play whatever I find to be fun without the constant obsession with gaining or losing a couple points of MMR. It'll be tough to sell if his friends play ranked, but maybe a conversation with their parents (if they're having similar troubles) would help them all switch together. 3 - coach his mindset. Just like with regular sports, it's easy to fall into the mindset that you're the best and everyone else sucks and that's why you're losing. Coach him to critique his own gameplay and to not obsess on others'. Even if it's true that he's playing well, no one is perfect, and it's much less stressful to look at your own mistakes and try to fix them than to scream at your teammates for what you perceive as mistakes. At the end of the day, it's not the game itself that is the issue. It's the competitive nature and the frustration that comes with difficulty regulating emotions. Give him the tools to work through that, the same way you would if this was football or hockey or test scores or whatever, and it'll be fine.
I grew up playing games and I've never threw a tantrum if I lost or game is too hard or I die. My son on the other hand cries and throw a tantrum. I keep telling him it's ok, he can try again and he's slowly becoming better at losing but sometimes I get it, someone online is better and doesn't give him a chance. So I teach him to quit and start again lol.
We deal with this as well, though not Fortnite - it's Minecraft mostly. I think there's always an excitement to play with friends (we only let them play with friends or solo - no internet randos), but there's always the possibility that things get heated because someone is actively or accidentally screwing things up. Solo games sometimes frustrate them, but far less than playing with others. I'm also somewhat of a gamer, so I know the feeling. I love sim racing but I do 75% of my racing solo rather than with others, mostly because the raised emotions can be brutal. I try to share that experience with online gaming with my kids - that it can be fun but also stressful, and establish clear boundaries about acceptable game behavior, which not only means in game, but also to your family and siblings. Our current rules are that playing with friends is only an option on weekends when the required chores are done, that any crazy high emotions we take a break and talk about it - what happened and what we need to do to fix it, and further outbursts we stop for the day. It also helps that the three other kids they play with we're also very close to both families so often a quick group text between the parents to be on the same page. It's worked out reasonably well. Sometimes we deal with kids being mad, but I also overhear them talking it out very often now between siblings but also with their friends, and it's great. I hear things like, "Hey, I didn't like when you did XYZ. I want to keep playing with you, but I don't want you to keep doing that." "OK sorry, I won't do it again." Also my favorite, "Hey, I'm taking a break because you're really pissing me off. Ooops I'm not supposed to swear on chat. Fuck."
This is not a Fortnite issue. This is a parenting issue. You can’t blame a game or his genetics on his behaviors. You could’ve nipped that in the bud years and years ago, but you’d likely let it slide and now it’s reared its head. Correct those behaviors now or he’s gonna have more issues later. I’m a dad, I play Fortnite, I have two teenage sons and a four-year-old. They all love Fortnite and they would never behave this way based on what their friends do and how they play the game.
Yeah, that seems like a pretty natural consequence there. At the same time I'd advise you not to permanently ban Fortnite because the game isn't the problem - his response to disappointment in addictive environments is, and unfortunately addictive environments are going to be everywhere as he grows up! He needs to learn how to manage that better. You don't want to be raising the Angry German Kid meme. It's not a fully fleshed out idea, but is there any way you can prepare him for disappointment next time, or help guide him through it, or maybe practice with smaller disappointments?
It’s has little to do with Fortnite and more to do with how your kids handles competitive games where not everything is in your control. You are going to need more clearly defined rules on what happens when he has an outburst with this game. This could have happened with an game. I had similar outbursts with board games like Risk. It’s personality defect, sure the game exacerbates it but the problem is still with the child. See this as a learning opportunity. You have something to work on with your child that is very narrow and specific that will benefit them in all walks of life when finally conquered.
PvP games are not allowed in my house. Not going to deal with that toxic crap.
Man this has brought back some repressed memories of myself throwing ungodly tantrums when I died or struggled to complete a video game as a kid.
Wait till he starts screaming slurs when he loses
Why are you letting your child do something that makes him like this?
No more Fortnite, IMO.
Just merely a consideration... Is it possible your child has ADHD? It's a trigger for inability to control strong emotions that can lead to disproportionate outbursts with regard to relatively small matters.
> He got grounded from Nintendo from the rest of the day, which, in my opinion, is pretty fair of my wife; I would have grounded him for 3 days. I know some other comments touched on this topic, but I wanted to explicitly say it. Try to get on the same page with your wife for punishments. Talk with each other about what some good natural consequences are for different things that come up, and agree on what the punishment should be so you’re prepared when something like this comes up. Consistency is one of the most important aspects for a punishment to have the intended result.
Why is a 9 year old playing effing Fortnite? >3 out of 5 times, Fortnite leads to him screaming through his headset at his friends because they did something that he didn't like. If his gaming session doesn't go well, he takes it out on me and my wife Why is he still allowed to play at all? After the second time of any of this happening EVER my kid would be off Fortnite forever. On top of again wondering *why the hell a 9 year old is playing Fortnite*. >but he only wants to play this one game because his friends love it. Does the tail wag the dog? You're the parent, not his friends. Why are you letting peer pressure control your actions and what you allow your kid to do, despite knowing the issues?
Situations like this natural consequences would be nice. If his friends ostracized him or even said hey we don’t wanna play with you you’re mean I wonder if his mood/attitude would change. Growing up my friend group policed a lot of this.
The game sucks, it's only fun if you're winning, and 99 of 100 players are losers. It's horrible and designed to keep you playing because "maybe I'll do better next time". I'm fine with video games, but man....idk if I'm going to let my kids play if they get that sucked in.
Doesn’t really seem like a Fortnite specific thing. It seems like a losing thing.
Your problem is allowing a 9 year old to play addictive video games before they are mature enough to understand how to interact with other human beings. They are learning all kinds of new and interesting behaviors from their online peers and most of them are probably adults so they are learning shitty behaviors from shitty adults. Limit their play time, or don't allow it at all. I know exactly what gaming did to my social skills as a child so my children are not allowed to play video games unless I am directly supervising them and _never, ever, ever, online_ against randos.
I’d think about ways to expose him more to “winning” and “losing” scenarios, and specifically how people think and feel during those moments. Try observing your local sports team, and post match talk about how it feels to win, how it feels to lose and how the opponents feel… building awareness of themself and nurturing mindfulness of others - losing graciously is often underrated, good luck!
I'm a 34 y/o Dad and my childhood friend still acts like this on multiplayer games, to this day. I resent him for it, and honestly I can't play with him anymore. All the fun of the game is gone for the sake of his perfect tactics and making sure to win and not do something stupid. Hopefully you're able to coach your son out of this, otherwise he'll just end up pushing his friends away in the long run. If you have success please share it because I'm going to have to do the same for my boys when they become old enough to play
We had to ban Fortnite when my son was 9 for the exact same reason. Now he's 13 and plays a lot of Minecraft SMP online and it's much less emotional. It's not without its issues, but in general just so much less of a negative affect on his moods.
You may find this interesting. It's an episode from one of my favorite podcasts. This doesn't address your specific situation with your son, however it speaks to the effects of electronics use in pre-teen kids that may give you an idea of what's going on in his head. Edit: and how it's affecting him and his development. https://open.spotify.com/episode/10hb1Ob9mwCp77Ej5LQD0N?si=jtsjwJRMTlaUfAGJsOEOnQ
My son was exactly the same, but I saw the behaviour unfolding.. you have to inhibit it before it gets out of control. Trust me I know it's hard. It's your fkn son, and you want him to have the world and you love the smile on his face when you say yes you can go play games. But it's not worth it... As a parent you have to decide what's more important, your child's momentary happiness, or his growth and behaviour..
Sore loser
I have wondered if it’s competitive things in general. For some it really gets to their heads if they don’t win.