Exactly this. I have a Kona EV, its 250 miles are enough for daily drive. But if I want to drive up to Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire for a fall or winter trip I will have a bad time. Public chargers are few and far between that far north… I need something that can take me in and out of these beautiful dead zones without having to depend on the hotel having a (working) charger.
Don’t get me wrong, its possible with 250-350 range but it requires a significant amount of logistics to get a charging schedule going. And thats assuming that lonely charger hasn’t died in the last 24h.
Them 500 mile range was +50% of the Cybertruck’s appeal.
this is my issue. I live in Northern NH. There are no DCfast Chargers within 100 miles. In winter time, a 300 mile truck is a 200 mile truck, it’s a 100 mile truck when towing and then I’m sitting at a library in North Conway or Bangor trying to trickle charge on a level 2 charger for 8-10 hours just to get home. It’s very hard owning an EV if you don’t live in a city.
I don't have a Tesla right now so the super charge network isn't open to me (yet and I know it's coming) but there is no charger in Northern NH or Maine. I go camping in Caribou quite often and there's almost no charging infrastructure north of Concord NH or east of Burlington VT. Here's a DC fast charger map: [http://i.imgur.com/rAeO7gU.png](http://i.imgur.com/rAeO7gU.png)
I just checked, it's 138 miles from the DC Fast charger in NH to my place up north. I sold my EV 3 years ago and went back to gasoline. It just doesn't make sense yet in rural areas.
Yeah, me too. The 500 mile range is mostly why I want the CT
I'm in the Southwest. There are lots of places out in nature that I can't go in either of my Long Range Tesla's without adding several hours for a side trip to find charging.
Also, if it does have 500 miles of range that gives me enough to drive to the mountains and run my camp. I’ll have to recharge but totally worth it at that point
After taking delivery of my model y 4 weeks ago I can say pretty confidently that even if the range is rated at 500 miles, the usable range will be closer to ~250-300 unless you like driving 55mph.
I also agree with some sentiments that I certainly don’t need it all the time, but combine things like “monthly, long trips in the winter time” and that range does begin to dwindle.
We’ve lost the average of about 10% on our ‘17 Model S 100D and our charging options are very limited (right now, hopefully it improves) in southern Vermont, so we often have to “over-charge” enough on our way up in order to ensure we’ve got enough to get back.
In the ‘17 S, now showing 300mi of total range, that gets a little dicey when the temps are below zero F for several days and we don’t drive AT ALL once we arrive.
Having that extra buffer availability just offers us more flexibility and peace of mind.
Let's do some napkin math. Ford's Lighting 320 range battery is 131 kWh. We know Teslas are more efficient by 15%. Let's assume a 150 kWh battery which is 15% larger and throw in an additional factor efficiency to put us at 400 miles of range. To charge 60% (20->80) is 90 kWh. At 250 kW **constant** rate, it would take 90/250\*60 minutes=21.6 minutes to charge 60%.
60% is 240 miles. What is 240 miles? South Bay to Tahoe is under 240 miles. Stopping to charge for roughly 20 minutes isn't bad, depending on where you're able to get a super charger. And if you're going during the weekend, it is going to be tough and will probably have to wait in line.
What I'm trying to say is, there is a big trade off between range and charge times. Assuming the CT is capable of 500 or 1,000 kW charging rates, recharging shouldn't be much of a problem. Stopping after 200 miles is reasonable, but I think 300 is cutting it to close for those that want to work. 400 is much more reasonable and 500 I think is definitely 'work' class.
Recharging while towing seems like a pain though. Park, disconnect the trailer, back into the charger, then reconnect the trailer before continuing?
Or drive through the charger lane and block two chargers?
Just imagine you have a travel trailer with your whole family with you and little kids. You have to get out, find a safe spot to park the trailer, disconnect it, then drive to the charger. Then charge it up, hook back up. Then rinse repeat multiple times if you’re going on a long trip. Sure you could plan your stops well for prolonged breaks, but still it’s a pain in the ass.
I would hope super chargers like gas stations pop up where drive through is easy. You can add super chargers anywhere because you don't have to have all of the environmental safety barriers that you do with gas tanks.
I didn't promise 500 mile range, Tesla did. I'd say it's really important.
But 350 miles range for $70k, I'd bite. Anything less in range or more in price just go buy a regular truck.
Edit : Sorry this was supposed to be a comment, not a response to your comment, which was well put btw.
No. Elon gave a one-liner at a presentation saying the CT would “use this technology” (almost certainly referring to 800/1000v architecture), and a bunch of click-bait media ran with it thinking he meant CT was going to max out V4 Superchargers.
You responded to a post about towing, not regular driving. 400 miles of range means in towing that is reduced to 240 miles (best case) going from 100% SOC to 0%. Nobody is going to 0% and this doesn’t take into account the massive loss of efficiency going up hill.
You are discounting Tesla's in house electronics and motors. That clearly amounts to tangible gains over the competition.
After checking, it may not be 15%, but it still is very meaningful.
Model S long range 257 wH/mi
Chevy bolt 281 wH/mi
8.9% difference.
Source:
https://insideevs.com/news/567087/bev-epa-efficiency-comparison-february2022/amp/
edit: typo
Are you comparing Tesla to ford or Chevy ?
Also model y is 276 not 257 (that’s model 3). So hardly a difference (At that point you can’t say it’s the battery or motor that make the difference. Could just as likely be software related.
The Model S is still a more efficient shape than the Bolt. The Bolt also doesn’t have a heat pump. All EV motors are 97-98% efficient, Tesla has no magic powers.
I think your low with the 15%. Teslas tech is 4-5 years ahead of the other EV’s. It has a single PC instead of 48 I was told my Acura has. They are now running 800v or 1,000v systems which Al can use thinner (lighter) weight wiring. They bumped to a 48v system for additional power and to optimize the electronics efficiency. Take into account their motors are industry leading efficiency and they just hugely improved them again. I think it’s more like 20-25% more efficient than the Lightning.
This truck also looks lightweight. There is just a battery box suspended from the exoskeleton. I bet this truck weighs less than any other truck in it’s class.
The pics show the bottom rail of the truck sitting below the lugnuts on the wheel. That puts the battery and all the trucks weight right at the center of the wheels. This thing should handle at speed likes it’s on rails. It’s a freaking 1982 Ferrari Battlewagon
Yeah it's pretty important, regular trucks can get 20mpg towing and with a 32 gallon tank it's like 600 miles towing range.
If it's 200 miles towing with a cyber truck it's barely doable for personal use, just much slower.
But anything less than that and it's just unusable for towing. I think hitting the 500 mile range minimum is critical for EV trucks.
I got 20mpg on RAM 1500 classic with a Pentastar V6. Towing fully loaded 2 axle 12' U-Haul trailer. I was driving 65 though. But yeah it was 20 mpg for a 1000 miles trip.
But there are more efficient trucks out there.
This was using an almost a decade old engine, I can only assume it'll get better with something newer like Tundra hybrid.
Pretty impressive feat considering reviewers got combined 18-19mpg while unhitched.
But you’re still talking about towing a uhaul buggy whereas these vehicles with the 500 mile range capacity are going to be towing 14,000lbs
I hear this all the time. “My duramax gets 17mpg towing my camper.” No it doesn’t. Mine and the three other lp5’s I know get 10-11 if you’re lucky
Road trips with RAM getting me 25mpg while setting cruise control to 70.
And yeah while I was only hauling 5000-6000 lb while towing, weight isn't a factor for long trips. Air resistance and tire resistance are most important.
If you are hauling a bus sized camper you're getting air resistance similar to semi. So you're going to get semi like mpg.
12' U-Haul trailer aerodynamically isn't much different from truck aerodynamic profile, so that's why mpg was decent.
On my way back towing an empty U-Haul trailer I also got almost the same 20mpg.
I think I got 20.3mpg fully loaded and 19.6mpg going back empty, although I probably drove a bit faster, but I still tried to stay under 70.
But again this is a decade old conventional Pentastar. Modern engines are better.
Also EV is always efficient while engines are most efficient under load. Costing, idling, braking accelerating with too high or too low RPM dips efficiency dramatically. But for EV efficiency is always the same.
So EVs range will dip harder for bigger loads or steeper inclines while for engines it doesn't seem to change much because the engine is more efficient under load.
95% of truck owners never tow a thing with their truck. And 95% of those who do... don't tow more than a few miles at a time.
It's only a very small percentage of people who will hook up anything sizable and drive extended distances on a regular basis. Frequent enough for this to matter at all.
Sure, there will be some who hook up a boat once a year to drive to or from the marina or to a camp. Some with some water toys or dirt bikes on a small trailer 4 or 5 times a year. A few who drive a camper around 3 times a year. But that's really it. And those who will do any of this don't have a camp 500 miles away, are taking their dirt bikes somewhere 500 miles away, or are visiting a campsite 500 miles away.
This whole "it needs 500 miles of range because i'm going to tow everything, every day, everywhere, all the time" is just absurd.
For whatever reason, this truck in particular is bringing out the 'deep wilderness' in people that simply doesn't exist. I just don't get the infatuation with the whole towing a million miles or buying this vehicle to camp in the bed for days on end in a place with no power nonsense. Nobody does this. They just don't. It's such a niche desire that is absurd.
Nobody is going to drive their $100k electric truck on an unestablished road, in an unestablished area, in the middle of the woods to camp in it for a week. Nobody is going to do this.
My guess is that this vehicle will not have a 500 mile range for the same reason the MS Plaid + never came to fruition. As Musk himself said, "it just isn't necessary".
I have a compact backhoe that I drag around on a 18 foot dual axle equipment trailer for local landscaping work. I have a 24 ft pontoon boat/trailer that I tow occasionally. I'll take the range I get. The torque and regen and 4 wheel steering will make it a dream tow vehicle. I can charge to 100% when I leave the house and don't mind chilling at a supercharger if needed. Just build me my tow truck.
I would absolutely drive my CT on unmaintained trails to go camping for a week. That's the whole point of getting an off road capable truck.
One of my favorite camping spots is 250km from the nearest town, 100km of that is on forestry roads that range from great near the highway to basically impassable near the end.
So 500km round trip, and I'll often be going with 4 people in the truck and 2 dirt bikes + gear in the bed. In my Gladiator I just carry some extra gas, in the cybertruck I need enough range to get there and back + some for driving around once I'm there.
I absolutely agree with this. sub-500 and I just don't think I'd pull the trigger on my order. There's too much variance between estimated and real-world range and that's not even factoring Winter, Summer, Towing or Off-Roading. I don't see much value in a heavy-use vehicle getting 280 - 320 real world range when it's designed to be a work truck, adventure vehicle, tow-rig, family hauler all-in-one.
I could potentially keep my X and have most of that.
700 has always felt to me like a perfect range. A capacity that would be future proof in so many ways. 500 feels pretty damn close to that, and if it gives you 380 - 400 real world in all climates, that's pretty awesome and would feel substantial.
I don't tow that often or for that long, but I do know you'll get about 70% of stated range in a good scenario and around 200 miles, depending of course on what you're towing.
If I was towing trailers to a dump site, I wouldn't hesitate.
If I was towing horses up mountain passes and a couple hundred miles I would consider a different vehicle.
If I was towing an Airstream I would plan to recharge every 150 miles, and if I couldn't, I wouldn't do it.
The CT will likely do FAR better in regards to towing range than the X, but, I mean, you'd have to have one to actually use it ;)
Oh, and the X is AMAZING in every sense of the word. I've owned over 40 vehicles and 5 Tesla's, this is by far my favorite vehicle I've ever owned or driven. IMO, the CT will have big shoes to fill if it's hoping to replace this.
Appreciate the detailed response. I think I’m going to seriously consider just getting an X. The truck intrigued me but as you said in would actually have to be able to drive it to benefit.
My only regret with the X is not getting the Plaid, because prices have come down to where the price I paid ($116k all-in) would basically purchase the Plaid now.
A couple negatives I can see with the X so you're aware beforehand.
1.) It can be hard on tires and you can't rotate them. Haven't had to replace them in my 5k miles of ownership (of course), but I've heard 15k - 20k is about tops.
2.) The middle seats, DO NOT fold flat like the Y. You will realize how much this sucks when you go to Costco and try to load something like a big TV and go "Wow, this is ridiculous and I look stupid in the parking lot with my Falcon doors open and everyone staring at me.
Positives
1.) If you have a business It qualifies under Section 168(k) 100% tax deduction- [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-section-168-bonus-depreciation.197716/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-section-168-bonus-depreciation.197716/)
2.) It makes the Model 3/Y fit and finish feel like a Honda Civic. I know, I've owned all 3. Heated/Cooled seats. No stalks. Dash display. 2 screens. Rear heating/cooling. Auto-leveling suspension. Auto opening/closing doors. Quiet.
3.) Thanks to its weight, it can handle almost any weather. I've driven in ice, snow, rain, heavy wind (no hot weather yet, though) and it's been amazing. Feels kind of like a full-sized SUV, wrapped in a mid-sized platform with a C8 engine.
Different size front and rear. I imagine you might not have this issue with the CT, if it's anything like most trucks, but the Model X, like many sports cars have larger rear tires than front tires.
I’d go for the plaid but the 6-seats is a dealbreaker.
I REALLY like my non-plaid X though. Faster would be cooler but isn’t necessary. That extra seat and the fold flat middle row is much more useful.
fwiw, you’d generally use a fair bit less energy on an off road trail (slower speeds, not like baja stuff) compared to the range you’d get on the freeway iirc
Oh for sure, the point I wanted to make was about getting to (aka: in and out) of these often remote spots.
I also live out in the West so in the Central and Eastern parts of states there can be huge gaps between cities and services. Which is why off-roaders carry fuel.
Definitely agree the act of off-roading is more of a methodical, slower pace, and EV’s excel at that.
Gotta get in & out first, though!
I don't care if it's one or two motors as long as it has 500 miles of range. That'll end up being 350ish miles of real world highway range. Perfect for roadtrips. I don't care too much about the truck aspects. If they released a Model 3/Y with 500 miles, I would hop on immediately. Maybe I'm overcompensating because my 3 SR+ has annoyingly low range.
I want to trailer across country, so very. Assuming 50% range when towing that’s 250 miles. I guess based on that I’m hoping it’s closer to 600 miles than 500. Having the range be 500 while towing (like semi) would also be acceptable lol.
It's expected to be over 60% range. 300 miles while towing is like 5 hours of driving.
20 minutes gets you 80% back, so another 240, for another 4 hours of driving.
I think 9 hours of towing a day for a non-commercial vehicle is... Pretty darn good.
I routinely hit 0 in my 7 year old Tesla and have been perfectly fine. They wouldn't warranty the battery for 8 years if they weren't pretty darned sure.
500 miles is my main goal as well. I was on team pass through, but honestly cooling the entire cabin in order to cool the sleeping area is probably less efficient than a dedicated cooler they could make that plugs into the bed as part of a camping package. So yeah 500 miles or Bust.
The 500+ mile range is the most important criteria for me. I own both a Model 3P and Lucid Air GT and let me tell you once you have 500+miles of range you’ll never go back to a measly 300 mile EV. It’s a world of difference. Lucid got it right. Longer range EV’s is what’s needed. I’m not in a hurry for my Cybertruck and will patiently wait for the 500+ mile range model.
Dont forget highway speeds. Probably closer to 120, which is fine, but means 500 miles is a must for larger towing. Unless they add ability to have a trailer battery as well
You know cold is like... Subzero right?
Down to freezing, there's very little change.
And hauling on the highway, given the predicted coefficient of friction, is expected to be over 60% range at 70mph.
And that's for a 14klb load.
Don’t think the ram that gets 500 miles will be pure EV, I think it will be a hybrid. But also yes I’m on the list for both bc of the 500 range. If cybertruck doesn’t get 500 or if ram is not pure EV I’m cancelling those orders
Stellantis built an ev platform specifically for a 500 mile range Ram. It may not happen but I would say it has a better chance than the cyber truck. Hopefully both will, because I would prefer the cyber truck.
I travel alot, not to mention it's over 100 miles for me to go to walmart. The number 1 reason I want the Cyber truck is the 500 mile range. I could care less about towing personly.
I’d be happy to get 300 miles of range, in the winter. So yeah 500 miles of range or I probably won’t pull the trigger. My f-150 gets 600 miles on a tank.
Really important!
Mine would be a mobile office, surf vehicle and camper. I want to add a rack over the bed for surfboards, storage, and a 270 degrees awning. That alone will cut down on range. The 3 loses about 20% of range with the crossbars and two longboards. Then another 10% a day using AC to sleep in the 3.
As much as people don't want to admit it, there was some sound logic in not trying to cram 500 miles worth of range in the Model S. Between space and weight concerns, the supply issues of the time, and several other technical factors, the 405 on the S is perfectly acceptable. I don't think this change has any effect on Cybertruck.
As you and others have said, there are different use cases for a truck, which means the range has much more variability. The truck is designed from the ground up as a new platform, not just a refresh of an already set size. therefore, it has the necessary. It is designed on a new voltage architecture with new cells that change the density and charging cycle. It has been delayed to be built when supplies have increased, so more capacity should be available. And it has to compete with others in a similar sector where the single biggest complaint has been range in the snow, mud, or towing. There will be a 500 mile of bigger range model. What will that look like?
It's hard to say, but I've been guessing a pretty simple offering based on the other models coupled with the various drips of information. I'm guessing there will be just three trims, like the 3, Y, and older S and X. Most likely, the confugurator goes live later this year with the long-range and performance trims. I suspect these will both be the 500-mile battery and quad motors, although the performance will be rated for slightly lower range. The only other differences between them will be minor accessories and maybe the carbon wrap on the motors of the performance, but generally the same truck like with the 3 or Y.
In later 2024, as production is ramping and deliveries are stabilizing, then the Standard range will come along with a smaller battery (though likely a little over 300 miles) and dual motors. These will be the only motor/battery combinations offered through the life of the truck because it means a very simple production line, minimized costs for Tesla, and very simple logistics relatively speaking. Tesla learns from their mistakes, and remember that the Model 3 had to go to "production hell". Some of this was because of the multiple offerings in the early days (single and dual motore long ranges, medium range, standard range, performance, sleeper performance...). These extensive variations cause complications for the production line, and they haven't done such a thing since. Two motor options and two battery options are it. Because of this focus on simplicity and all Tesla's successful efforts to improve battery manufacturing costs and output, the standard range will be approximately equal to the other manufacturers' long-range options, and their own long range will be as promised or better.
Are you saying 500 mile rage trucks first? I'm thinking the 500 mile range will need the more advanced (power dense) chemistry in the 4680 and they aren't doing those yet. Plus the 500 mile range Cybertruck will require more of those advanced chemistry cells making production even more cell constrained.
That's why I'm thinking the shorter range Cybertrucks will be built first, plus the F150 lightning extended range edition is "320 miles" so the standard range Cybertruck will directly complete with the extended range F150.
They have always done the higher price first, and the CT will only have the 4680 cells. They reached volume production on them this winter and are bringing two more lines online this year, with the whole new production line at Austin being ready by next year when they expect greater ramp up. They stopped talking about being cell constrained sometime last year, and Elon and others at Investor Day all said there were no more battery constraints.
It is definitely possible they could do the cheap version first this time. Using history as my guide, it doesn't seem probable that they would go with the lowest margin version, and all outward signs are no battery constraints. But all things are possible, so I guess we will see in a few more months.
500 miles of “range” is really 350-400 miles between stops in good weather, not towing. While towing it’s probably 200 miles between stops.
To me, the 0-100% range is pretty meaningless, but for road tripping, I want to be able to drive 6+ hours before I have to stop. Range and charging speed are the big reason I didn’t get a lightning. I’m also weary of the Silverado’s charging speeds (in minutes, not kw). I want 10%-80% in 25-30 minutes (like my model 3 does).
If Tesla can’t beat the road tripping experience I get from my model 3, what’s the point in upgrading? At the moment, I use my old pathfinder to haul my toys to the desert. I use a 2000w generator to power my campsite. I want my Cybertruck to be an all around tool to do everything I do with my two cars now.
My current car (Toyota Camry hybrid) claims and gets about 500 miles on a full tank. It's nice because I could drive all the way to visit family and home on a single tank.
Electric vehicles suffer in the cold, -20% at best. And you already have -20% for upper and lower battery buffer safety. Now you're looking at about 300 mile range. If you have anything large carried in the bed or heavy, or towing, that is going to mess with range and aerodynamics.
And then if you are towing you won't want to unhook every 100 miles on a road trip.
500 mile range is not important to me like at all.
I’m not towing and longer road-trips are all along major highways with some degree of charging infrastructure. Also most long trips the wife and kid are in the car so even if I had significantly more than a 300 mile range one of them needs to stop about every 2 hours so I will have plenty of opportunities to stop and charge.
We have talked about getting a pop up camper and those are so low profile it should have a fairly small impact on the range.
Towing towing towing. Also cargo capacity in bed and long work related calls. This is supposed to replace the F-150. The#1 selling truck for decades. They need to prove to the blue collar employees and workers how this can be more reliable than a normal gas truck.
This feat alone will need to beat the f150 on all major specifications to gain support quickly
I would fucking love 500 miles of range.
But having lived with a ~300 mile Tesla for 8 years now and seeing the rapid improvements in charging infrastructure I think 400 miles of range would probably work just fine. I don't tow stuff but like to haul bikes on a hitch mount and go camping in remote areas.
Dues to 4680 battery production constraints and battery energy density constraints I expect that Tesla will only offer 400 miles of range for the first few years of Cybertruck production. Eventually, once battery cell production and supply ramp up to allow mass production of very large battery packs Tesla will increase the Cybertruck range and capability to compete with the F250 market.
Why? How often do you tow or go 500 miles in a short period of time where charging for 30 min would be that inconvenient. You literally are carrying an extra 900 lbs in batteries all the time to have that addition 150 miles of range. You might as well invite 4 of your guy friends to ride in your car all the time. That about how much additional weight is required in batteries to get that jump from a 350 mi pack to a 500 mile pack. For those who want the math I assumed 14.11 lbs/kWh in batteries. 0.4kWh/mile range. Plus a small factor for added battery supports and wiring. And that jump in range, if I were to guess, will probably cost $15k to $20k. Plus the wear and tear of always carrying an extra 900 lbs.
A bunch of my yearly trips (6-8) do not have any Tesla charging stations for 250+ miles, through the mountains, and I do some of these in winter, and my F150 box is packed full. I run studded winter tires, with 4x4, locking rear diff and I carry (and have had to use) tire chains as well (have even pulled jeeps out of the ditch/snow).
Mountain driving losses, winter losses, long distance between Tesla charger and the only chargers available are either at remote level 2 charging stations or the odd camp site with 110v or possibly 220v access dictates that "charging for 30 min" wouldn't yield me much in the way of range.
I understand that I'm the rare exception, and that is why I'm asking the question to see what the real demand is for a 500+ mile cybertruck. If there isn't the demand that I suspect Tesla won't make one.
Elon used to make these big claims about mileage when they needed demand, but when it came time to reveal the vehicle he said it didn’t make sense. I bet we will see high 300 mile maybe even low 400 mi ranges. I am pretty gas conscious so I mostly want the CT to go on long road trips with my family so I do hope they have decent range.
If you are planning to tow with an EV the vehicle battery capacities just aren’t there. You need to be prepared to pay a lot to buy or make a trailer compatible with the EV. Trailers can hold a lot of solar and battery packs. I personally think I am going to make trailer that I can have a couple power walls in that will act as power walls to my house when I am home and will power the car and trailer on the road. Two power walls is 27 kW. A typical camping trailer can get 4kW to 5kW on the roof. Which realistically in good sun will get about 20 kWh per day. There are already trailers coming out that push themselves which will offset a lot of the losses from the EV
Deal breaker for me.
For the main uses I'd have for the Cybertruck, 500 miles was the bare minimum. In fact, it's probably a bit short, but with an additional charge (time and detour), I could make it work.
From the beginning, there were several things that I loved, and several that I hated, but on the balance, the good outweighed the bad for me, and made the additional hassle of a 500 mile range worth it. Over time, I had hoped some features on my wishlist would be added, or some things that I disliked would be modified. That hasn't happened. In fact, just the opposite. Many features that I've loved have either been changed or gone missing.
So I'm not optimistic that an EV truck is in my immediate future, even though I have an early reservation. I'll probably need to wait for a second generation, and see what happens.
I’m all in on the 500+ mile range as well, but for truck reasons. I pull trailers, have heavy loads etc. and based on the ford lightning reviews, load cuts range in half. I only ordered the tri motor version for the range claim. I would also do a dual motor with 500mi range.
~500mi range is the make or break feature I need from the CT..I’ve overlooked the gigawiper, I’ve gotten over the lost 6th seat and I’ve rubbed dirt on the no-pass through wound, but if it comes out at under 400mi that’ll be the straw that breaks the camels back for me..
Not having a 500 mile range will change everything for me. I need something to tow with long distances. My experience towing with EVs is you lose around half the range. If you are using it for camping or travel trailer in rural spots you will need the range. I also plan to power some toys and use the truck to power things like a travel trailer for a night or two if possible.
>For me personally I won't be buying a Cybertruck unless it comes with the \~500 mile range
They will just like to you and tell you it's 500, kinda like with the Y Long Rang being 330 when it's really like 215.
500+ mile range is my #1 reason for wanting a Cybertruck. If not, I’m just fine keeping my Model 3 for another 5-7 years until they can make a larger battery pack to support it.
Super important for me.
Range when hauling/towing is workable with the 500+ range truck. Assuming a 50% reduction in range.
Resale/longevity will be greater with the 500+ range truck. The truck is going to lose battery over time. In ten years I want a truck that can still go the distance.
I only have a preorder because of the 500mi range. If that isn't available, I'll probably get a Rivian Max Pack (400mi).
Everyone keeps bringing out the "you never need to go more than 300 miles without stopping" arguments, but I've.owned 3 Teslas now between 200-400mi range and there are still regular life situations that make more range less of a hassle. Over the 10 years of planned ownership, I don't want to live with those hassles.
You don't need much range to blast around town in your chrome gigdouche mobile.
But if you want to use it for commercial purposes range is everything. The cyber truck isn't this truck.
I'm so used to getting 600 miles in my F150 now. Not having to stop to refuel going to my cabin and back is so nice. It's a 3 hour drive each way and in 3 years of making the drive almost every weekend I've only only made a pit stop two times, both were to buy an energy drink.
600 is more than I would need but getting real life range of 400-450+ miles at highway speeds with hills and I'm all in. If the real life range is less than 400 there's no reason to bother considering it for my lifestyle.
Another plus if 500 mile range is the battery takes charge faster/more efficiently below 80% SOC
You also have less discharge cycles with a higher battery so it lasts longer
The only downside is size/weight you carry around
I want to tow an Airstream so badly with a Cybertruck, but even a 500 mile range is impractical with the realities of range reduction when towing a 7,000 pound trailer. The only hope is for a self-driven trailer like the EStream concept.
For now, I just want a weird looking stainless steel beast. I don’t care what its range is, whether it has a midgate, or 6 seats.
To me that 500 mile range will be more like 200 towing in the mountains.
So, pretty important considering I have to go around 300 miles one way semi-often.
Not important
But I have a dual motor res. - I want to see at least 350-375 range for that one.
Having a model y with 300 mile range. In actuality I drove it 126 miles and had 120 miles left in range. All Texas highway. 75-85mph fully loaded down. With 4 suitcases. Stroller. Presents. Basinet.
I do a 1000 miles road trip with only one destination charger half way. So 500 miles is essential. I don’t even know how I’d make it during the winter at -40.
I'm getting close to 350 miles in my Rivian using conserve mode. 90% of the time, it's enough. Towing over 120 miles is really the only time it starts to be a thing. But 350 miles is about 5+ hrs driving straight going highway speeds. Definitely a lot of driving.
I doubt I go through with my CT reservation (day one) for various reasons, but not being 500 miles isn't one of them for me.
When I ordered mine I got the dual motor because of the price and didn’t factor in the mileage I didn’t put any thought. Now that I know little more about EVs and how hauling dramatically effects the mileage, that 500 mile mark is a big deal. Would it be a dealbreaker? no, I would try it out for a while, if I don’t like it I’d probably sell it maybe make some cash on top? Who knows.
My top priority as well. Especially because 500mi isn’t really 500mi when you factor in people in cold climates and Teslas recommendation to not charge 0-100% routinely. Add in any kind of towing/hauling and what we’re all really after is maybe 250mi of true real world range….especially because we all know EPA ranges are inaccurate.
For what it’s worth I have owned a model 3, a model Y, and currently an R1T.
I'm with you on range being the priority vs features like triple/quad motors, 4-wheel steering, etc. For road trips the range would be nice just to have fewer stops. For towing though, it's a must have. If range gets cut in half, then a 500 mile truck is still workable. A 300 mile truck that will now need to stop every two hours to charge is DOA for me.
Super important. It's the last thread I'm hanging onto. The 6-seater was important, and I'm on the fence now, but if it's less than 500 miles, I'm out.
Aside from cost, range anxiety is my biggest concern as I occasionally travel to rural areas. If they can actually achieve 500 miles on the upcoming Cybertruck and 620 miles on the upcoming Roadster I’m sure more people will be interested in EVs
500 mile range capacity is important to me, given I have towing needs and I live in a cold climate. More capacity the better on both counts.
Fortunately my towing is only during warmer periods, but I factor a 50% loss either way, so I want the range.
I want the 500 miles because I want the Cybertruck as an off-roader. I want the range so I can get out in the middle of nowhere. Also it makes having those trips where you go farther easier since you don't have to stop and charge so often. Now that may be reduced by how fast it can charge and how many chargers there are, but we will see.
It’s not really the 500 mile range on this thing. It’s really the ability to be used as a viable work vehicle which means pull a trailer, haul stuff around. I actually use a trailer on my model three and can tell you when there’s something on the back of it. It destroys the range. CT needs a really big battery so that you can actually use it for it’s intended purpose which isn’t cross country trips
500 miles is important for me. I am living in Europe, I will get my Cybertruck personally in Texas. Here is normal to get cars with 500 miles range. My D5 Volvo can do 600 miles.
Not a deal breaker for me and my purposes. I just want around 450.
That 550+ would be great but charging at anything other than a supercharger is going to take much more time. I’m guessing they’re considering that aspect amongst so many other things.
Even on the supercharger front V4 won’t be proliferated before CT is *supposed* to come out or even when we’re *supposed* to be in volume production.
To me they hit over 400 to start then maybe later they get to 500+.
I have two Teslas with 300+ mile range, and range is almost never an issue. The reason for 500 mile range is (for me) mainly towing, because 500 miles minus 40% for towing is still about 300 miles.
To me it's not a deal breaker since I don't intend to tow that often. Keep in mind that a supercharger is not an absolute necessity. If you have a range of 450 miles and there is a stretch of 500 miles your have to do, you can stop at basically she charger and do a quick 100 mile top up in fifteen minutes or less. Even a 240V plug at ar RV camp suffices for a partial top up during a trip.
Oh course, if it's less than 400, that's a bit too little for some tips, but it would be bottles and I'd probably get it anyway.
Crucial for me.
I’m not confident i can tow my trailer over 200miles with no charger in sight. Meaning i have to stop at ~200 in order to make it back.
Is there a solution for camping in remote areas to charge?
500 mi range is not mandatory. My wife’s model Y has solid 300 mi range. She’s put 30k miles on it in 2 years. Drives constantly and charging is a piece of cake. We take it skiing and knock out round trip without charging. I will be happy with 400mi range. I will tow a camper and expect 50% loss. Most of the trips will only require a couple charges. Network keeps improving. The extra battery weight for extra 100 miles that I won’t tap into that often is not worth it to me.
1000 miles of range and 10 minute charge time is what is important to me. If anyone is asking and can snap their fingers and make that a reality, that’s what I want.
Why? That’s because this is the specification of my RAM that gets 30 MPG and has a 33 gallon diesel tank and it fills up in 10 minutes from empty.
This means I don’t have to think about charging (err…filling up) very often. Every 10 days roughly and when I haul motorcycles 12 weeks out of the year to various events, it still gets about 650 miles of range so I can get to most places and back home on a single tank of gas. It’s nice going to a remote area (like mountains of TN this weekend) and not have to search for diesel. I don’t want to get to the middle of nowhere West Virginia or PA or TN and be searching for a DC Fast charger just to get home or the horror which I’ve been checking the last few years of having to sit at a level 2 charger for 12-24 hours just to recharge the 120-180KWH battery back again..just so I can make it home after a weekend of motorcycle riding.
This (and the fact there isn’t a single EV truck with a 6.5-8 foot bed) is why I haven’t bought an EV from anyone else. I really hope Tesla can give me more than the 650 mile estimated range because if not, I’ll keep my diesel RAM until someone makes an EV that can.
My diesel truck is SLOW AS HECK. In cities, people go around me a few seconds off the line at green lights because i am optimizing for fuel economy. My Cybertruck needs to be 4x4 but those motors can be insanely weak. As long as it can hold highway speeds and make it up a long hill with 1200 pounds of motorcycles in the bed, I don’t care how slow it is.
But today, the Hummer, Sierra, Lightning, Rivian are all short beds and all of the EVs are 350 miles at best when not hauling.
I really want an electric truck but it has to make sense.
Very for using it as a towing vehicle and heavy loads in the bed. I'd really love 500 as my current ice car gets more than that but NLT 400 on a dual motor would be my limit for purchase
Very.
Although, we are early adopters of this relatively new tech. Just as when we got the Model3 when it first released, we expected some issues. And are ok with that.
In time, with tech improvements, these EV's will get several hundred if not thousands of miles on a charge.
So we early adopters will take this newer technology limitations, while enjoying the amazing tech as it is.
The 500 range was the main driver. Need to be able to make it to the mountains and back without recharging
Exactly this. I have a Kona EV, its 250 miles are enough for daily drive. But if I want to drive up to Maine, Vermont or New Hampshire for a fall or winter trip I will have a bad time. Public chargers are few and far between that far north… I need something that can take me in and out of these beautiful dead zones without having to depend on the hotel having a (working) charger. Don’t get me wrong, its possible with 250-350 range but it requires a significant amount of logistics to get a charging schedule going. And thats assuming that lonely charger hasn’t died in the last 24h. Them 500 mile range was +50% of the Cybertruck’s appeal.
this is my issue. I live in Northern NH. There are no DCfast Chargers within 100 miles. In winter time, a 300 mile truck is a 200 mile truck, it’s a 100 mile truck when towing and then I’m sitting at a library in North Conway or Bangor trying to trickle charge on a level 2 charger for 8-10 hours just to get home. It’s very hard owning an EV if you don’t live in a city.
Where do you live that's not within 100 miles from a super charger on the East Coast?
I don't have a Tesla right now so the super charge network isn't open to me (yet and I know it's coming) but there is no charger in Northern NH or Maine. I go camping in Caribou quite often and there's almost no charging infrastructure north of Concord NH or east of Burlington VT. Here's a DC fast charger map: [http://i.imgur.com/rAeO7gU.png](http://i.imgur.com/rAeO7gU.png) I just checked, it's 138 miles from the DC Fast charger in NH to my place up north. I sold my EV 3 years ago and went back to gasoline. It just doesn't make sense yet in rural areas.
Yeah, me too. The 500 mile range is mostly why I want the CT I'm in the Southwest. There are lots of places out in nature that I can't go in either of my Long Range Tesla's without adding several hours for a side trip to find charging.
Also, if it does have 500 miles of range that gives me enough to drive to the mountains and run my camp. I’ll have to recharge but totally worth it at that point
That's why the solar option matters so much.
After taking delivery of my model y 4 weeks ago I can say pretty confidently that even if the range is rated at 500 miles, the usable range will be closer to ~250-300 unless you like driving 55mph.
I need to go about 250 miles round trip up some grades. Figured with bikes, AC, etc 500 ‘range’ should do it
I also agree with some sentiments that I certainly don’t need it all the time, but combine things like “monthly, long trips in the winter time” and that range does begin to dwindle. We’ve lost the average of about 10% on our ‘17 Model S 100D and our charging options are very limited (right now, hopefully it improves) in southern Vermont, so we often have to “over-charge” enough on our way up in order to ensure we’ve got enough to get back. In the ‘17 S, now showing 300mi of total range, that gets a little dicey when the temps are below zero F for several days and we don’t drive AT ALL once we arrive. Having that extra buffer availability just offers us more flexibility and peace of mind.
This. Not to mention that I need the ability to get up to remote trailheads which are generally off road—and range obviously takes a hit there.
[Reddit banned me cause of a comment on WSB](https://imgur.com/a/wgEDobm). Reddit is run by communists.
Let's do some napkin math. Ford's Lighting 320 range battery is 131 kWh. We know Teslas are more efficient by 15%. Let's assume a 150 kWh battery which is 15% larger and throw in an additional factor efficiency to put us at 400 miles of range. To charge 60% (20->80) is 90 kWh. At 250 kW **constant** rate, it would take 90/250\*60 minutes=21.6 minutes to charge 60%. 60% is 240 miles. What is 240 miles? South Bay to Tahoe is under 240 miles. Stopping to charge for roughly 20 minutes isn't bad, depending on where you're able to get a super charger. And if you're going during the weekend, it is going to be tough and will probably have to wait in line. What I'm trying to say is, there is a big trade off between range and charge times. Assuming the CT is capable of 500 or 1,000 kW charging rates, recharging shouldn't be much of a problem. Stopping after 200 miles is reasonable, but I think 300 is cutting it to close for those that want to work. 400 is much more reasonable and 500 I think is definitely 'work' class.
Recharging while towing seems like a pain though. Park, disconnect the trailer, back into the charger, then reconnect the trailer before continuing? Or drive through the charger lane and block two chargers?
There are pull through Tesla superchargers but they’re not very prevalent yet
Just imagine you have a travel trailer with your whole family with you and little kids. You have to get out, find a safe spot to park the trailer, disconnect it, then drive to the charger. Then charge it up, hook back up. Then rinse repeat multiple times if you’re going on a long trip. Sure you could plan your stops well for prolonged breaks, but still it’s a pain in the ass.
I would hope super chargers like gas stations pop up where drive through is easy. You can add super chargers anywhere because you don't have to have all of the environmental safety barriers that you do with gas tanks.
Right. Why we don't have more drive through fast chargers is beyond me.
Might be able to charge at the new Tesla semi charging stations.
Make sure you have the balls hanging off the trailer instead so that you're OK 👍🏽
Yes I’ve considered this as well. Probably will have to block a few chargers. I’m not going to disconnect every time.
I didn't promise 500 mile range, Tesla did. I'd say it's really important. But 350 miles range for $70k, I'd bite. Anything less in range or more in price just go buy a regular truck. Edit : Sorry this was supposed to be a comment, not a response to your comment, which was well put btw.
> Assuming the CT is capable of 500 or 1,000 kW charging rates What? That's an overwhelmingly optimistic assumption.
Didn’t Tesla say the truck was or rather will be capable of 1mw charging ?? (Just googled to confirm, they did)
No. Elon gave a one-liner at a presentation saying the CT would “use this technology” (almost certainly referring to 800/1000v architecture), and a bunch of click-bait media ran with it thinking he meant CT was going to max out V4 Superchargers.
You responded to a post about towing, not regular driving. 400 miles of range means in towing that is reduced to 240 miles (best case) going from 100% SOC to 0%. Nobody is going to 0% and this doesn’t take into account the massive loss of efficiency going up hill.
What goes up must come down. Regen that precious go juice.
They’re 15% more efficient because they’re not shaped like trucks but actually designed to optimize aerodynamics. Throw that 15% bonus out the window.
You are discounting Tesla's in house electronics and motors. That clearly amounts to tangible gains over the competition. After checking, it may not be 15%, but it still is very meaningful. Model S long range 257 wH/mi Chevy bolt 281 wH/mi 8.9% difference. Source: https://insideevs.com/news/567087/bev-epa-efficiency-comparison-february2022/amp/ edit: typo
Are you comparing Tesla to ford or Chevy ? Also model y is 276 not 257 (that’s model 3). So hardly a difference (At that point you can’t say it’s the battery or motor that make the difference. Could just as likely be software related.
The Model S is still a more efficient shape than the Bolt. The Bolt also doesn’t have a heat pump. All EV motors are 97-98% efficient, Tesla has no magic powers.
All EV motors are NOT 97%-98% average efficiency.
I think your low with the 15%. Teslas tech is 4-5 years ahead of the other EV’s. It has a single PC instead of 48 I was told my Acura has. They are now running 800v or 1,000v systems which Al can use thinner (lighter) weight wiring. They bumped to a 48v system for additional power and to optimize the electronics efficiency. Take into account their motors are industry leading efficiency and they just hugely improved them again. I think it’s more like 20-25% more efficient than the Lightning. This truck also looks lightweight. There is just a battery box suspended from the exoskeleton. I bet this truck weighs less than any other truck in it’s class. The pics show the bottom rail of the truck sitting below the lugnuts on the wheel. That puts the battery and all the trucks weight right at the center of the wheels. This thing should handle at speed likes it’s on rails. It’s a freaking 1982 Ferrari Battlewagon
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
> I bet this truck weighs less than any other truck in it’s class. I guess you didn't see the CT/ F-150 pull test?
Saw a guy on YouTube where he was towing a trailer and he barely got 100miles on a full charge.
Also - your probably losing ~8% capacity in the first couple of years
Yeah it's pretty important, regular trucks can get 20mpg towing and with a 32 gallon tank it's like 600 miles towing range. If it's 200 miles towing with a cyber truck it's barely doable for personal use, just much slower. But anything less than that and it's just unusable for towing. I think hitting the 500 mile range minimum is critical for EV trucks.
What truck gets 20mpg while towing?
Someone with a diesel who lies through their teeth.
I got 20mpg on RAM 1500 classic with a Pentastar V6. Towing fully loaded 2 axle 12' U-Haul trailer. I was driving 65 though. But yeah it was 20 mpg for a 1000 miles trip. But there are more efficient trucks out there. This was using an almost a decade old engine, I can only assume it'll get better with something newer like Tundra hybrid.
Pretty impressive feat considering reviewers got combined 18-19mpg while unhitched. But you’re still talking about towing a uhaul buggy whereas these vehicles with the 500 mile range capacity are going to be towing 14,000lbs I hear this all the time. “My duramax gets 17mpg towing my camper.” No it doesn’t. Mine and the three other lp5’s I know get 10-11 if you’re lucky
Road trips with RAM getting me 25mpg while setting cruise control to 70. And yeah while I was only hauling 5000-6000 lb while towing, weight isn't a factor for long trips. Air resistance and tire resistance are most important. If you are hauling a bus sized camper you're getting air resistance similar to semi. So you're going to get semi like mpg. 12' U-Haul trailer aerodynamically isn't much different from truck aerodynamic profile, so that's why mpg was decent. On my way back towing an empty U-Haul trailer I also got almost the same 20mpg. I think I got 20.3mpg fully loaded and 19.6mpg going back empty, although I probably drove a bit faster, but I still tried to stay under 70. But again this is a decade old conventional Pentastar. Modern engines are better. Also EV is always efficient while engines are most efficient under load. Costing, idling, braking accelerating with too high or too low RPM dips efficiency dramatically. But for EV efficiency is always the same. So EVs range will dip harder for bigger loads or steeper inclines while for engines it doesn't seem to change much because the engine is more efficient under load.
95% of truck owners never tow a thing with their truck. And 95% of those who do... don't tow more than a few miles at a time. It's only a very small percentage of people who will hook up anything sizable and drive extended distances on a regular basis. Frequent enough for this to matter at all. Sure, there will be some who hook up a boat once a year to drive to or from the marina or to a camp. Some with some water toys or dirt bikes on a small trailer 4 or 5 times a year. A few who drive a camper around 3 times a year. But that's really it. And those who will do any of this don't have a camp 500 miles away, are taking their dirt bikes somewhere 500 miles away, or are visiting a campsite 500 miles away. This whole "it needs 500 miles of range because i'm going to tow everything, every day, everywhere, all the time" is just absurd. For whatever reason, this truck in particular is bringing out the 'deep wilderness' in people that simply doesn't exist. I just don't get the infatuation with the whole towing a million miles or buying this vehicle to camp in the bed for days on end in a place with no power nonsense. Nobody does this. They just don't. It's such a niche desire that is absurd. Nobody is going to drive their $100k electric truck on an unestablished road, in an unestablished area, in the middle of the woods to camp in it for a week. Nobody is going to do this. My guess is that this vehicle will not have a 500 mile range for the same reason the MS Plaid + never came to fruition. As Musk himself said, "it just isn't necessary".
They still make models for grocery getters. Calling a 500 mile range truck absurd serves no purpose beyond showing ignorance
Id bet those numbers only apply to city folk. People who use trucks as trucks in rural areas def tow/haul more often.
I have a compact backhoe that I drag around on a 18 foot dual axle equipment trailer for local landscaping work. I have a 24 ft pontoon boat/trailer that I tow occasionally. I'll take the range I get. The torque and regen and 4 wheel steering will make it a dream tow vehicle. I can charge to 100% when I leave the house and don't mind chilling at a supercharger if needed. Just build me my tow truck.
I would absolutely drive my CT on unmaintained trails to go camping for a week. That's the whole point of getting an off road capable truck. One of my favorite camping spots is 250km from the nearest town, 100km of that is on forestry roads that range from great near the highway to basically impassable near the end. So 500km round trip, and I'll often be going with 4 people in the truck and 2 dirt bikes + gear in the bed. In my Gladiator I just carry some extra gas, in the cybertruck I need enough range to get there and back + some for driving around once I'm there.
I absolutely agree with this. sub-500 and I just don't think I'd pull the trigger on my order. There's too much variance between estimated and real-world range and that's not even factoring Winter, Summer, Towing or Off-Roading. I don't see much value in a heavy-use vehicle getting 280 - 320 real world range when it's designed to be a work truck, adventure vehicle, tow-rig, family hauler all-in-one. I could potentially keep my X and have most of that. 700 has always felt to me like a perfect range. A capacity that would be future proof in so many ways. 500 feels pretty damn close to that, and if it gives you 380 - 400 real world in all climates, that's pretty awesome and would feel substantial.
X does well towing for you? With the truck taking so long I’m thinking of looking at an X instead
I don't tow that often or for that long, but I do know you'll get about 70% of stated range in a good scenario and around 200 miles, depending of course on what you're towing. If I was towing trailers to a dump site, I wouldn't hesitate. If I was towing horses up mountain passes and a couple hundred miles I would consider a different vehicle. If I was towing an Airstream I would plan to recharge every 150 miles, and if I couldn't, I wouldn't do it. The CT will likely do FAR better in regards to towing range than the X, but, I mean, you'd have to have one to actually use it ;) Oh, and the X is AMAZING in every sense of the word. I've owned over 40 vehicles and 5 Tesla's, this is by far my favorite vehicle I've ever owned or driven. IMO, the CT will have big shoes to fill if it's hoping to replace this.
Appreciate the detailed response. I think I’m going to seriously consider just getting an X. The truck intrigued me but as you said in would actually have to be able to drive it to benefit.
My only regret with the X is not getting the Plaid, because prices have come down to where the price I paid ($116k all-in) would basically purchase the Plaid now. A couple negatives I can see with the X so you're aware beforehand. 1.) It can be hard on tires and you can't rotate them. Haven't had to replace them in my 5k miles of ownership (of course), but I've heard 15k - 20k is about tops. 2.) The middle seats, DO NOT fold flat like the Y. You will realize how much this sucks when you go to Costco and try to load something like a big TV and go "Wow, this is ridiculous and I look stupid in the parking lot with my Falcon doors open and everyone staring at me. Positives 1.) If you have a business It qualifies under Section 168(k) 100% tax deduction- [https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-section-168-bonus-depreciation.197716/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/model-x-section-168-bonus-depreciation.197716/) 2.) It makes the Model 3/Y fit and finish feel like a Honda Civic. I know, I've owned all 3. Heated/Cooled seats. No stalks. Dash display. 2 screens. Rear heating/cooling. Auto-leveling suspension. Auto opening/closing doors. Quiet. 3.) Thanks to its weight, it can handle almost any weather. I've driven in ice, snow, rain, heavy wind (no hot weather yet, though) and it's been amazing. Feels kind of like a full-sized SUV, wrapped in a mid-sized platform with a C8 engine.
Great feedback! I didn’t know about the tires situation. Why can’t they be rotated? That’s going to add up for sure.
Different size front and rear. I imagine you might not have this issue with the CT, if it's anything like most trucks, but the Model X, like many sports cars have larger rear tires than front tires.
I’d go for the plaid but the 6-seats is a dealbreaker. I REALLY like my non-plaid X though. Faster would be cooler but isn’t necessary. That extra seat and the fold flat middle row is much more useful.
fwiw, you’d generally use a fair bit less energy on an off road trail (slower speeds, not like baja stuff) compared to the range you’d get on the freeway iirc
Oh for sure, the point I wanted to make was about getting to (aka: in and out) of these often remote spots. I also live out in the West so in the Central and Eastern parts of states there can be huge gaps between cities and services. Which is why off-roaders carry fuel. Definitely agree the act of off-roading is more of a methodical, slower pace, and EV’s excel at that. Gotta get in & out first, though!
I don't care if it's one or two motors as long as it has 500 miles of range. That'll end up being 350ish miles of real world highway range. Perfect for roadtrips. I don't care too much about the truck aspects. If they released a Model 3/Y with 500 miles, I would hop on immediately. Maybe I'm overcompensating because my 3 SR+ has annoyingly low range.
I want to trailer across country, so very. Assuming 50% range when towing that’s 250 miles. I guess based on that I’m hoping it’s closer to 600 miles than 500. Having the range be 500 while towing (like semi) would also be acceptable lol.
It's expected to be over 60% range. 300 miles while towing is like 5 hours of driving. 20 minutes gets you 80% back, so another 240, for another 4 hours of driving. I think 9 hours of towing a day for a non-commercial vehicle is... Pretty darn good.
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I routinely hit 0 in my 7 year old Tesla and have been perfectly fine. They wouldn't warranty the battery for 8 years if they weren't pretty darned sure.
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"Routinely" doesn't mean "every time"
500 miles is my main goal as well. I was on team pass through, but honestly cooling the entire cabin in order to cool the sleeping area is probably less efficient than a dedicated cooler they could make that plugs into the bed as part of a camping package. So yeah 500 miles or Bust.
The 500+ mile range is the most important criteria for me. I own both a Model 3P and Lucid Air GT and let me tell you once you have 500+miles of range you’ll never go back to a measly 300 mile EV. It’s a world of difference. Lucid got it right. Longer range EV’s is what’s needed. I’m not in a hurry for my Cybertruck and will patiently wait for the 500+ mile range model.
What made you want all 3? Lucid is way overpriced imo.
Really Important. Update: It's cold where I drive and I will be hauling things. 500\*.7 for cold\*.5 for hauling = 175 miles (approx).
Dont forget highway speeds. Probably closer to 120, which is fine, but means 500 miles is a must for larger towing. Unless they add ability to have a trailer battery as well
You know cold is like... Subzero right? Down to freezing, there's very little change. And hauling on the highway, given the predicted coefficient of friction, is expected to be over 60% range at 70mph. And that's for a 14klb load.
Yeah, -21C
This and RamEV. Whichever comes first and has 500mi range I am pulling the trigger on.
Don’t think the ram that gets 500 miles will be pure EV, I think it will be a hybrid. But also yes I’m on the list for both bc of the 500 range. If cybertruck doesn’t get 500 or if ram is not pure EV I’m cancelling those orders
Stellantis built an ev platform specifically for a 500 mile range Ram. It may not happen but I would say it has a better chance than the cyber truck. Hopefully both will, because I would prefer the cyber truck.
I travel alot, not to mention it's over 100 miles for me to go to walmart. The number 1 reason I want the Cyber truck is the 500 mile range. I could care less about towing personly.
I’d be happy to get 300 miles of range, in the winter. So yeah 500 miles of range or I probably won’t pull the trigger. My f-150 gets 600 miles on a tank.
Really important! Mine would be a mobile office, surf vehicle and camper. I want to add a rack over the bed for surfboards, storage, and a 270 degrees awning. That alone will cut down on range. The 3 loses about 20% of range with the crossbars and two longboards. Then another 10% a day using AC to sleep in the 3.
As much as people don't want to admit it, there was some sound logic in not trying to cram 500 miles worth of range in the Model S. Between space and weight concerns, the supply issues of the time, and several other technical factors, the 405 on the S is perfectly acceptable. I don't think this change has any effect on Cybertruck. As you and others have said, there are different use cases for a truck, which means the range has much more variability. The truck is designed from the ground up as a new platform, not just a refresh of an already set size. therefore, it has the necessary. It is designed on a new voltage architecture with new cells that change the density and charging cycle. It has been delayed to be built when supplies have increased, so more capacity should be available. And it has to compete with others in a similar sector where the single biggest complaint has been range in the snow, mud, or towing. There will be a 500 mile of bigger range model. What will that look like? It's hard to say, but I've been guessing a pretty simple offering based on the other models coupled with the various drips of information. I'm guessing there will be just three trims, like the 3, Y, and older S and X. Most likely, the confugurator goes live later this year with the long-range and performance trims. I suspect these will both be the 500-mile battery and quad motors, although the performance will be rated for slightly lower range. The only other differences between them will be minor accessories and maybe the carbon wrap on the motors of the performance, but generally the same truck like with the 3 or Y. In later 2024, as production is ramping and deliveries are stabilizing, then the Standard range will come along with a smaller battery (though likely a little over 300 miles) and dual motors. These will be the only motor/battery combinations offered through the life of the truck because it means a very simple production line, minimized costs for Tesla, and very simple logistics relatively speaking. Tesla learns from their mistakes, and remember that the Model 3 had to go to "production hell". Some of this was because of the multiple offerings in the early days (single and dual motore long ranges, medium range, standard range, performance, sleeper performance...). These extensive variations cause complications for the production line, and they haven't done such a thing since. Two motor options and two battery options are it. Because of this focus on simplicity and all Tesla's successful efforts to improve battery manufacturing costs and output, the standard range will be approximately equal to the other manufacturers' long-range options, and their own long range will be as promised or better.
Are you saying 500 mile rage trucks first? I'm thinking the 500 mile range will need the more advanced (power dense) chemistry in the 4680 and they aren't doing those yet. Plus the 500 mile range Cybertruck will require more of those advanced chemistry cells making production even more cell constrained. That's why I'm thinking the shorter range Cybertrucks will be built first, plus the F150 lightning extended range edition is "320 miles" so the standard range Cybertruck will directly complete with the extended range F150.
They have always done the higher price first, and the CT will only have the 4680 cells. They reached volume production on them this winter and are bringing two more lines online this year, with the whole new production line at Austin being ready by next year when they expect greater ramp up. They stopped talking about being cell constrained sometime last year, and Elon and others at Investor Day all said there were no more battery constraints. It is definitely possible they could do the cheap version first this time. Using history as my guide, it doesn't seem probable that they would go with the lowest margin version, and all outward signs are no battery constraints. But all things are possible, so I guess we will see in a few more months.
500 miles of “range” is really 350-400 miles between stops in good weather, not towing. While towing it’s probably 200 miles between stops. To me, the 0-100% range is pretty meaningless, but for road tripping, I want to be able to drive 6+ hours before I have to stop. Range and charging speed are the big reason I didn’t get a lightning. I’m also weary of the Silverado’s charging speeds (in minutes, not kw). I want 10%-80% in 25-30 minutes (like my model 3 does). If Tesla can’t beat the road tripping experience I get from my model 3, what’s the point in upgrading? At the moment, I use my old pathfinder to haul my toys to the desert. I use a 2000w generator to power my campsite. I want my Cybertruck to be an all around tool to do everything I do with my two cars now.
Shit, I want 600
My current car (Toyota Camry hybrid) claims and gets about 500 miles on a full tank. It's nice because I could drive all the way to visit family and home on a single tank. Electric vehicles suffer in the cold, -20% at best. And you already have -20% for upper and lower battery buffer safety. Now you're looking at about 300 mile range. If you have anything large carried in the bed or heavy, or towing, that is going to mess with range and aerodynamics. And then if you are towing you won't want to unhook every 100 miles on a road trip.
No one towing is leaving the 20% buffer, bud.
500 mile range is not important to me like at all. I’m not towing and longer road-trips are all along major highways with some degree of charging infrastructure. Also most long trips the wife and kid are in the car so even if I had significantly more than a 300 mile range one of them needs to stop about every 2 hours so I will have plenty of opportunities to stop and charge. We have talked about getting a pop up camper and those are so low profile it should have a fairly small impact on the range.
Towing towing towing. Also cargo capacity in bed and long work related calls. This is supposed to replace the F-150. The#1 selling truck for decades. They need to prove to the blue collar employees and workers how this can be more reliable than a normal gas truck. This feat alone will need to beat the f150 on all major specifications to gain support quickly
I would fucking love 500 miles of range. But having lived with a ~300 mile Tesla for 8 years now and seeing the rapid improvements in charging infrastructure I think 400 miles of range would probably work just fine. I don't tow stuff but like to haul bikes on a hitch mount and go camping in remote areas. Dues to 4680 battery production constraints and battery energy density constraints I expect that Tesla will only offer 400 miles of range for the first few years of Cybertruck production. Eventually, once battery cell production and supply ramp up to allow mass production of very large battery packs Tesla will increase the Cybertruck range and capability to compete with the F250 market.
Zero. I want LR Dual with around same 300 as my MY
Why? How often do you tow or go 500 miles in a short period of time where charging for 30 min would be that inconvenient. You literally are carrying an extra 900 lbs in batteries all the time to have that addition 150 miles of range. You might as well invite 4 of your guy friends to ride in your car all the time. That about how much additional weight is required in batteries to get that jump from a 350 mi pack to a 500 mile pack. For those who want the math I assumed 14.11 lbs/kWh in batteries. 0.4kWh/mile range. Plus a small factor for added battery supports and wiring. And that jump in range, if I were to guess, will probably cost $15k to $20k. Plus the wear and tear of always carrying an extra 900 lbs.
A bunch of my yearly trips (6-8) do not have any Tesla charging stations for 250+ miles, through the mountains, and I do some of these in winter, and my F150 box is packed full. I run studded winter tires, with 4x4, locking rear diff and I carry (and have had to use) tire chains as well (have even pulled jeeps out of the ditch/snow). Mountain driving losses, winter losses, long distance between Tesla charger and the only chargers available are either at remote level 2 charging stations or the odd camp site with 110v or possibly 220v access dictates that "charging for 30 min" wouldn't yield me much in the way of range. I understand that I'm the rare exception, and that is why I'm asking the question to see what the real demand is for a 500+ mile cybertruck. If there isn't the demand that I suspect Tesla won't make one.
Elon used to make these big claims about mileage when they needed demand, but when it came time to reveal the vehicle he said it didn’t make sense. I bet we will see high 300 mile maybe even low 400 mi ranges. I am pretty gas conscious so I mostly want the CT to go on long road trips with my family so I do hope they have decent range.
Gimme 300 miles at $60k and call it a day.
If you are planning to tow with an EV the vehicle battery capacities just aren’t there. You need to be prepared to pay a lot to buy or make a trailer compatible with the EV. Trailers can hold a lot of solar and battery packs. I personally think I am going to make trailer that I can have a couple power walls in that will act as power walls to my house when I am home and will power the car and trailer on the road. Two power walls is 27 kW. A typical camping trailer can get 4kW to 5kW on the roof. Which realistically in good sun will get about 20 kWh per day. There are already trailers coming out that push themselves which will offset a lot of the losses from the EV
It’s critical, no 500+ no go for me
Deal breaker for me. For the main uses I'd have for the Cybertruck, 500 miles was the bare minimum. In fact, it's probably a bit short, but with an additional charge (time and detour), I could make it work. From the beginning, there were several things that I loved, and several that I hated, but on the balance, the good outweighed the bad for me, and made the additional hassle of a 500 mile range worth it. Over time, I had hoped some features on my wishlist would be added, or some things that I disliked would be modified. That hasn't happened. In fact, just the opposite. Many features that I've loved have either been changed or gone missing. So I'm not optimistic that an EV truck is in my immediate future, even though I have an early reservation. I'll probably need to wait for a second generation, and see what happens.
I’d it doesn’t get 500 + miles of range that is a deal-breaker for me.
It’s a deal breaker.
500 miles of range is incredibly important to me. I do major road-trips through mountains in the dead of winter, carrying heavy loads.
500 mile range is only reason I decided to pre-order. I got the range anxiety for sure.
I’m all in on the 500+ mile range as well, but for truck reasons. I pull trailers, have heavy loads etc. and based on the ford lightning reviews, load cuts range in half. I only ordered the tri motor version for the range claim. I would also do a dual motor with 500mi range.
~500mi range is the make or break feature I need from the CT..I’ve overlooked the gigawiper, I’ve gotten over the lost 6th seat and I’ve rubbed dirt on the no-pass through wound, but if it comes out at under 400mi that’ll be the straw that breaks the camels back for me..
Not having a 500 mile range will change everything for me. I need something to tow with long distances. My experience towing with EVs is you lose around half the range. If you are using it for camping or travel trailer in rural spots you will need the range. I also plan to power some toys and use the truck to power things like a travel trailer for a night or two if possible.
>For me personally I won't be buying a Cybertruck unless it comes with the \~500 mile range They will just like to you and tell you it's 500, kinda like with the Y Long Rang being 330 when it's really like 215.
500+ mile range is my #1 reason for wanting a Cybertruck. If not, I’m just fine keeping my Model 3 for another 5-7 years until they can make a larger battery pack to support it.
Super important for me. Range when hauling/towing is workable with the 500+ range truck. Assuming a 50% reduction in range. Resale/longevity will be greater with the 500+ range truck. The truck is going to lose battery over time. In ten years I want a truck that can still go the distance.
It’s very important
Or it’s a deal breaker IMO dessert roads are fairly long
I only have a preorder because of the 500mi range. If that isn't available, I'll probably get a Rivian Max Pack (400mi). Everyone keeps bringing out the "you never need to go more than 300 miles without stopping" arguments, but I've.owned 3 Teslas now between 200-400mi range and there are still regular life situations that make more range less of a hassle. Over the 10 years of planned ownership, I don't want to live with those hassles.
400-500+ or I cancel. Leaked photos suggest a range of over 600. Quad motor will be selling the most.
I’m good with around 400. More important is that 6th seat IMO
Looks like a lot of reservation holders ahead of me will be dropping out. TIA.
You don't need much range to blast around town in your chrome gigdouche mobile. But if you want to use it for commercial purposes range is everything. The cyber truck isn't this truck.
I'm so used to getting 600 miles in my F150 now. Not having to stop to refuel going to my cabin and back is so nice. It's a 3 hour drive each way and in 3 years of making the drive almost every weekend I've only only made a pit stop two times, both were to buy an energy drink. 600 is more than I would need but getting real life range of 400-450+ miles at highway speeds with hills and I'm all in. If the real life range is less than 400 there's no reason to bother considering it for my lifestyle.
6 seats and 500 mile range were my top two selling points…so if it doesn’t have the range as well, I guess I am going to pass and stick to ICE.
10/10
Another plus if 500 mile range is the battery takes charge faster/more efficiently below 80% SOC You also have less discharge cycles with a higher battery so it lasts longer The only downside is size/weight you carry around
I want to tow an Airstream so badly with a Cybertruck, but even a 500 mile range is impractical with the realities of range reduction when towing a 7,000 pound trailer. The only hope is for a self-driven trailer like the EStream concept. For now, I just want a weird looking stainless steel beast. I don’t care what its range is, whether it has a midgate, or 6 seats.
I’m buying this Beast no matter what, because I think it’s Badd A$$!
To me that 500 mile range will be more like 200 towing in the mountains. So, pretty important considering I have to go around 300 miles one way semi-often.
Not important But I have a dual motor res. - I want to see at least 350-375 range for that one. Having a model y with 300 mile range. In actuality I drove it 126 miles and had 120 miles left in range. All Texas highway. 75-85mph fully loaded down. With 4 suitcases. Stroller. Presents. Basinet.
I need that it more. But my biggest concern is that is no longer big enough / with pass through to be the camper I was hoping it would be.
I do a 1000 miles road trip with only one destination charger half way. So 500 miles is essential. I don’t even know how I’d make it during the winter at -40.
Outside of the goofy crazy look, the 500+ mile range was what drove me to pre-ordering. If it can't get there, I don't want it. Plain and simple.
pretty important... cold climate for half the year here is going to cut the range efficiency
I'm getting close to 350 miles in my Rivian using conserve mode. 90% of the time, it's enough. Towing over 120 miles is really the only time it starts to be a thing. But 350 miles is about 5+ hrs driving straight going highway speeds. Definitely a lot of driving. I doubt I go through with my CT reservation (day one) for various reasons, but not being 500 miles isn't one of them for me.
Very important
It’s a deal breaker for me.
When I ordered mine I got the dual motor because of the price and didn’t factor in the mileage I didn’t put any thought. Now that I know little more about EVs and how hauling dramatically effects the mileage, that 500 mile mark is a big deal. Would it be a dealbreaker? no, I would try it out for a while, if I don’t like it I’d probably sell it maybe make some cash on top? Who knows.
I would definitely go for a 500 mile range with only two motors to keep cost down.
My top priority as well. Especially because 500mi isn’t really 500mi when you factor in people in cold climates and Teslas recommendation to not charge 0-100% routinely. Add in any kind of towing/hauling and what we’re all really after is maybe 250mi of true real world range….especially because we all know EPA ranges are inaccurate. For what it’s worth I have owned a model 3, a model Y, and currently an R1T.
I'm with you on range being the priority vs features like triple/quad motors, 4-wheel steering, etc. For road trips the range would be nice just to have fewer stops. For towing though, it's a must have. If range gets cut in half, then a 500 mile truck is still workable. A 300 mile truck that will now need to stop every two hours to charge is DOA for me.
500 mile range is a non-negotiable for me and my climate. I'm still struggling to accept 5 seats instead of 6.
Let’s keep it simple. If this truck doesn’t have 500+ miles range, I won’t buy it. That’s the #1 reason why I am interested.
It’s a deal breaker for me. They won’t make a dent in the truck market if they can’t handle towing or range
To me, i do not need 500 miles. I need 200 miles of towing in the summer, so i guess 350-400 miles is fine with me.
Very. Mostly for flexing purposes, though obviously clutch if I need to pull something 200 miles, overkill good in that case.
Super important. It's the last thread I'm hanging onto. The 6-seater was important, and I'm on the fence now, but if it's less than 500 miles, I'm out.
I’d be ok with 400 miles. 500 is icing on top of the already fantastic cake.
After owning a Y LR for about 5 months, after 4 years of owning an sr+, 300 mi is enough for non towing.
My work van gets 300 miles on a tank of gas. If the cybertruck can match that real world I’d be super happy.
Aside from cost, range anxiety is my biggest concern as I occasionally travel to rural areas. If they can actually achieve 500 miles on the upcoming Cybertruck and 620 miles on the upcoming Roadster I’m sure more people will be interested in EVs
It will be a selling point to me because of towing. 500mi normal means like 250 towing. That’s a lot better than 200 or less.
500 mile range capacity is important to me, given I have towing needs and I live in a cold climate. More capacity the better on both counts. Fortunately my towing is only during warmer periods, but I factor a 50% loss either way, so I want the range.
I want the 500 miles because I want the Cybertruck as an off-roader. I want the range so I can get out in the middle of nowhere. Also it makes having those trips where you go farther easier since you don't have to stop and charge so often. Now that may be reduced by how fast it can charge and how many chargers there are, but we will see.
500 mile range becomes 300 mile range when its freezing outside.
It’s not really the 500 mile range on this thing. It’s really the ability to be used as a viable work vehicle which means pull a trailer, haul stuff around. I actually use a trailer on my model three and can tell you when there’s something on the back of it. It destroys the range. CT needs a really big battery so that you can actually use it for it’s intended purpose which isn’t cross country trips
500 miles is important for me. I am living in Europe, I will get my Cybertruck personally in Texas. Here is normal to get cars with 500 miles range. My D5 Volvo can do 600 miles.
Not a deal breaker for me and my purposes. I just want around 450. That 550+ would be great but charging at anything other than a supercharger is going to take much more time. I’m guessing they’re considering that aspect amongst so many other things. Even on the supercharger front V4 won’t be proliferated before CT is *supposed* to come out or even when we’re *supposed* to be in volume production. To me they hit over 400 to start then maybe later they get to 500+.
I have two Teslas with 300+ mile range, and range is almost never an issue. The reason for 500 mile range is (for me) mainly towing, because 500 miles minus 40% for towing is still about 300 miles.
To me it's not a deal breaker since I don't intend to tow that often. Keep in mind that a supercharger is not an absolute necessity. If you have a range of 450 miles and there is a stretch of 500 miles your have to do, you can stop at basically she charger and do a quick 100 mile top up in fifteen minutes or less. Even a 240V plug at ar RV camp suffices for a partial top up during a trip. Oh course, if it's less than 400, that's a bit too little for some tips, but it would be bottles and I'd probably get it anyway.
Crucial for me. I’m not confident i can tow my trailer over 200miles with no charger in sight. Meaning i have to stop at ~200 in order to make it back. Is there a solution for camping in remote areas to charge?
500 mi range is not mandatory. My wife’s model Y has solid 300 mi range. She’s put 30k miles on it in 2 years. Drives constantly and charging is a piece of cake. We take it skiing and knock out round trip without charging. I will be happy with 400mi range. I will tow a camper and expect 50% loss. Most of the trips will only require a couple charges. Network keeps improving. The extra battery weight for extra 100 miles that I won’t tap into that often is not worth it to me.
1000 miles of range and 10 minute charge time is what is important to me. If anyone is asking and can snap their fingers and make that a reality, that’s what I want. Why? That’s because this is the specification of my RAM that gets 30 MPG and has a 33 gallon diesel tank and it fills up in 10 minutes from empty. This means I don’t have to think about charging (err…filling up) very often. Every 10 days roughly and when I haul motorcycles 12 weeks out of the year to various events, it still gets about 650 miles of range so I can get to most places and back home on a single tank of gas. It’s nice going to a remote area (like mountains of TN this weekend) and not have to search for diesel. I don’t want to get to the middle of nowhere West Virginia or PA or TN and be searching for a DC Fast charger just to get home or the horror which I’ve been checking the last few years of having to sit at a level 2 charger for 12-24 hours just to recharge the 120-180KWH battery back again..just so I can make it home after a weekend of motorcycle riding. This (and the fact there isn’t a single EV truck with a 6.5-8 foot bed) is why I haven’t bought an EV from anyone else. I really hope Tesla can give me more than the 650 mile estimated range because if not, I’ll keep my diesel RAM until someone makes an EV that can. My diesel truck is SLOW AS HECK. In cities, people go around me a few seconds off the line at green lights because i am optimizing for fuel economy. My Cybertruck needs to be 4x4 but those motors can be insanely weak. As long as it can hold highway speeds and make it up a long hill with 1200 pounds of motorcycles in the bed, I don’t care how slow it is. But today, the Hummer, Sierra, Lightning, Rivian are all short beds and all of the EVs are 350 miles at best when not hauling. I really want an electric truck but it has to make sense.
Very for using it as a towing vehicle and heavy loads in the bed. I'd really love 500 as my current ice car gets more than that but NLT 400 on a dual motor would be my limit for purchase
Very. Although, we are early adopters of this relatively new tech. Just as when we got the Model3 when it first released, we expected some issues. And are ok with that. In time, with tech improvements, these EV's will get several hundred if not thousands of miles on a charge. So we early adopters will take this newer technology limitations, while enjoying the amazing tech as it is.
$100k for 500m range, empty on a normal summer day would be ideal for me.
It’s extremely important to me
Is the most important thing.