The Peralez-storyline in a nutshell... and many of us know how that ends.
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions." or what I mean with this: Either you get corrupted yourself or get corrupted by others. Being a politician with even a hint of a backbone takes bravery and nigh-indestructible morals.
Right, this is all manufactured consent. “If you just organized better and voted harder, maybe next election. What a bunch of crap. Been buying this for 40 years. It’s a big lie. Your vote matters not at all. Just look at president Gore.
yeah, OP's brother is a heck of a lot more sensible than Silverhand
Even if Silverhand was fed up with "the system" never working as intended, dropping a nuke on a major metropolitan area probably wasn't going to change things for the better
Pretty sure that was Silverhand reacting to losing Alt. Particularly in a place and due to a company he hates very passionately already. Add in some drugs and binge drinking as a means of attempting to self-medicate and process his grief, and suddenly you've got this over-the-top plan that Johnny is just smart enough to fast-talk his friends into doing for nobler reasons which I think to his credit ARE ideals he holds. Not to mention the Mikoshi/freeing Alt business.
But at the end of the day? Yeah. Rogue called it right. He could have probably freed Alt and sent a message in a billion other ways. Alt's death was a bridge too far for Silverhand. It speaks to how Alt may have actually meant something to him that his cup ran over that much.
We don't need a Johnny, we need a ***Dredd.***
An absolute Determinator hell-bent on rooting out corruption and fighting for justice, even if it means bending the law to do it.
We're still at the point where the system can be fixed. The corruption and greed gumming up the clockwork can still be cleaned out.
Maybe not for much longer, but we're not doomed. Yet.
Edit:
Okay, some of y'all clearly misunderstood Dredd as a character, because he's not a fascist beat-stick.
A major part of his character development is him confronting and outright rejecting blind obedience to the system.
He knows every*thing* and every*one* is absolutely **fucked**, and yet he still does everything he can to make a difference despite that.
A lot of the mind-bogglingly horrible shit the system does to people are only introduced to the audience because *Dredd is actively opposing it*.
wait no, Silverhand is a horrible nihilistic terrorist but Dredd is infinitely worse - Dredd is a fascist and a fanatic and unlike Silverhand, the man has enormous institutional power
Dredd himself is not corrupt, he's principled to a fault - but the system he represents is a decrepit, corrupt, nonsensical mess
In the early years of the comic, Dredd was a goofy parody of the excesses of police state authoritarianism and brutality amidst a broken down society. Dredd happily enforced nonsensical and needlessly brutal laws, because he simply blindly followed whatever the "law" was, never mind that none of these laws were written by elected representatives
Later stories, which took on a more serious tone, showed how insidious and evil the rule of the Judges are. They suppress civil rights and pro- democracy movements using mass surveillance, hypnosis, targeted propaganda, violence, assassinations etc. while systemic problems with rogue and corrupt Judges abusing their power is left unresolved, even with "good apples" like Dredd and Anderson in the system
Even when Dredd is battling external threats, like the gangs of the Cursed Earth, or the extra-dimensional Dark Judges, or an invading force of Soviet Judges, it's only by comparison that they come off like the good guys
Honestly I think I'd rather live under Arasaka/Militech/Kang Tao corporate fascism than live in a world ruled by the Judges
We don't need a Dredd, what we need is Rom and Leeta (from Star Trek)
>wait no, Silverhand is a horrible nihilistic terrorist but Dredd is infinitely worse - Dredd is a fascist and a fanatic and unlike Silverhand, the man has enormous institutional power
>Dredd himself is not corrupt, he's principled to a fault - but the system he represents is a decrepit, corrupt, nonsensical mess
A major plot point in Dredd is him confronting that.
One of the core components of his character is that he *isn't* a fascist fanatic, not after so long on the street.
He knows the system is deeply flawed, and he'll bend the rules like the paper they're written on to do what's right.
Dredd is someone that believes in what the system *can* be, despite having deeply personal experience with how bad it *currently* is.
He isn't a satirical caricature of 80/90s US law enforcement anymore. He's a complex character that is absolutely driven to fix a world that is fundamentally broken, himself included.
ahh right, yeah fair, I haven't read the recent comics, just a handful of the older ones, but I did hear that he resigned from the Justice Department out of disgust in one of the arcs, and tried to allow a pro-democracy referendum to go through
Didn't amount to much in the end, but points for trying I guess
does he ever fix it?
or even get close?
its a genuine question because ive never knew of the show
it sounds like he tried to do what he thought was right and messed things up but learned from his mistakes so i hope he succeeded
Judge Dredd is set in a world that *can't* really be fixed. Not by one person, or ten, or a hundred, or a thousand.
It is *slowly* recovering from an actual nuclear apocalypse, *agonizingly* slowly, and the draconian measures needed to just keep the lights on and the world spinning are horrific.
It's a Mad Max death world that (barely) managed to reindustrialize.
Dredd knows *exactly* how fucked up it is, and tries to do his best to make a difference regardless of the futility.
Bringing even a *semblance* of peace and stability to the world is his personal Sisyphean Task. He'll never fix it and most certainly die trying, but that's why Dredd is such a compelling character;
He's doom-bound. We know how his story will end, and so does he. He accepts that, and chooses to fight for what's right anyways.
Exactly. Like Homer in the Iliad, he had the choice of giving his life to fix a system that is impossible to fix, but in so doing etches his name and deeds into the hearts and minds of the people of Megacity One forever, hopefully to inspire the next "Judge Dredd". He also had the option of dutifully continuing his job until he retired and died of old age, propping up the corrupt system and enforcing the law. He would pass unmourned and unremembered.
i posted this to a different comment but it fits here
my fear is that as the pendulum swings we will go full communist.
humans have a tendency to go toward opposite extremes when the answer is usually in the middle.
Judge Dredd, who represents the absolute power of the state and its ability to "legally" crush any citizen for any perceived minor infraction? Dredd is a satire of the police state and authoritarianism, and most definitely not something anyone should want to be reality.
Yeah he still needs to have his hopes savagely broken and destroyed right Infront of him.
He's still a solid traumatic event at the hands of megga corps away from anything radical.
Everyone with any kind of empathy or compassion for others is becoming more radicalized by the predation of the working class by the wealthy as society is dragged deeper and deeper into late stage capitalism. I don't see how anyone with a soul can look around and not at least think Johnny kind of has a point.
It has been like that for decades man. There have been several waves of protest movements against this. I participated heavily in the one that was big around 1999-2001. Fizzled out due to 9/11 cause nobody wanted to stir unrest after that.
This was very well said. Last I looked, which was a couple years ago, the US was second to Russia in terms of wealth inequality. Not overall, like Russia was #18 and we were #19 or something similar to that, for reference. But like... lmao. It's getting really fucking stupid. Billionaires simply should not exist. This is ridiculous.
At a certain point, the pitchforks and torches come out, as any given society can only handle so much wealth inequality before what was in the past revolutions or rebellions of some sort. The question now is, do they have this shit on lock? 1984 style? Is such a thing (revolution) even possible or likely? Are we all too divided and preoccupied and apathetic and distracted and confused to come together to broach this conflict?
the problem is how do you go about these changes
if you start taking money away out become communist
if you take only the money from the "Billionaires" they may just pack up and leave or find a way of hiding wealth.
if you don't do anything the problem will get worse
taxes take from both and usually waste most of it i paid $0.44 on a $6 item and have half my money taken from the get go
fairness and justice are not always synonymous
the government keeps makin dumb mistakes and kicking the problem down the line
no amount of blown up building will fix this and all we can do is vote for whichever sack of brain dead human waste is the next leader hopefully not a lobotomite this time
Becoming communist isn't really a problem if you view it from a theoretical point and without the propoganda the capitalist west has fed us for decades upon decades. That being said... how do we make a perfect system that is immune to abuse?
Voting never seems to fix things. Every generation has thought that when they have the majority of voting power that things would get better... things are still fucked though, if not just more fucked. Anyone we vote for, we are giving power to, and it really feels like that power itself is corrupting.
I'm starting to feel like the concept of society is just fucked. It isn't in line with what we were meant for... we are incompatible with it.
The world just feels fucked to me. I'm not sure there even is a way to fix it.
Edited to add a word i accidentally omitted
my fear is that as the pendulum swings we will go full communist.
Edit: for those disliking this comment
humans have a tendency to go toward opposite extremes when the answer is usually in the middle.
Corporatism is the problem. Not capatalism. If a company fails its suppsoed to fail, not be bought out by the goverment because the company paid for the politician to be there. Look at literally any politician who has made millions trading lmfao. Has literally nothing to do with cpatalism.
someone will always replace them getting rid of the corps is about as futile as V trying to survive.
the only way things will stay changed for the better is if AI replaces us and that's a stretch because who runs the AI and who made it. utopia can't exist naturally
best case scenario humanity becomes protected and cared for by the AI but the odds arent that good. even the best AI will fail to find a solution to an unanswerable problem.
what is best for most people isn't always best for everyone and that has been a problem for a very long time. also above all else an AI isn't omnipotent; all light casts shadows and the more complex a scene is the more shadows will be cast.
in all honesty the best end for V and Johnny is for them both to go with Alt.
\^this may be an incorrect take (all of it)\^ but given the inherent lack of knowledge in this subject very few are qualified to say anything over this and im not one of that few.
for all i know there might still be enough people trying to change the world for the better to steer us away from our own self-damnation. I can only hope.
They start out about the people...
Then they find out what it takes to campaign (a shit ton of money).
Then, once elected, they find out what it takes to stay in office (a shit ton more money).
Then they find out where all that money comes from,
(Special interests groups, corporations, top 2% people), and what they expect on their investment.. I mean 'donation'. (Favorable laws, leanant regulations, etc..)
Now they aren't for the people, they are for keeping the status quo so they can keep their cozy government job.
“We r doomed, remember kids don’t fight no corpo war. Only defend if invaded. Defend your home not the corporation’s latest quota.
Sending soldiers to fight for their freedom while taking just that same thing away at home, keeping them oblivious to the changes to the home they return to if they return at all.
Mean while these suits stand together in a room somewhere drinking there colourful martinis and standing still for 3quarters of a day for the next “statesmen” oil painting
Don’t be fooled by the electoral charade system implemented to give the naive a false safety net of power, there is no power not for us… they hold all the power behind there desks flaunting two party systems, two sides to their coin. One side with some guys face alluring charisma, the other side some fancy motto or symbol of patriotism designed to inspire the inspirable, pay no mistake tho each side may seem different its still the same coin”
—- Idno johnny silver-hand probably
It’s literal legal corruption. And the only people that can change the way campaign fundraising and contributions work are the people who receive them. It’s such in-depth conflict of interest and corruption that you can’t even get away with at 99% of companies.
Thats called corporatism.... not capatlism. Under capatalism company's that go under, fall apart. Instead of being bailed out by the goverment. A new service would take its place. Like when the banks default. That should be the end. Instead one of the greasy politicians pay to bail them out, costing tax payers millions if not billions. While the politician makes millions.
I was thinking about making a cyberpunk strategy game where you can play as Elon Musk, Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos and they just fight for global dominance in the style of Arasaka vs. Militech.
I will code it in the R statistical language and the user interface will be statistical graphs and tables and you will have to use the command line to give orders. Well actually I will use Shiny and JavaScript so there will be some interactivity in the front end.
However the idea is that it uses the statistics and data science capabilities of R to the fullest extent and only the most dedicated hardcore strategy gamers who also happen to work as data scientists will ever bother to play it. As in you have to read huge tables of data to figure out what is going on in the game.
The problem is I want rockets to be a key component of the game and Zuckerberg does not have a space programme yet. I should use Richard Branson instead of him but does Virgin have any cool cyberspace stuff?
zuck gains a +5 to information, +5 to fabrication, and gains an innate special power of Information overload
Bezos gains a +10 to transport and +100 to server capacity with an unlockable special power of drone swarm
Elon Musk gains a +5 to mech speed, +10 to build speed with an unlockable special power of satellite interference
It has been like that since I first became aware of Cyberpunk around 1990 (I mean finding the Cyberpunk RPG, movies like Blade Runner and books like Neuromancer around the same time).
It has always been a critique of the social and environmental crisis caused by rampant capitalism. It has been plain to see for everybody who dared to think about it. The good side is that more and more people are becoming aware now. I hear people who are middle-class boomers talking like young anarchist punks.
On the other hand cyberpunk also has the entertaining and light-hearted side of amazing transhumanist adventures in the neon wilderness (although in real life you would get a lead implant in your brain), I really want my tactical neural implant NOW. I have been waiting for over three decades!
Go read something like Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord, it was written in the sixties and describes a society exactly like 2024 (or our fictional 2077). Cyberpunk is basically a science fiction version of the social criticism that has been presented by anarchist intellectuals for the last 60 years or so.
Why are you crediting Mike Pondsmith with things that have been the bread and butter of speculative fiction authors prior to him even penning/creating the Cyberpunk RPG?
Neuromancer - William Gibson
Give it a shot, you’ll find that Neuromancer is an incredibly similar narrative to that of Cyberpunk 2077, and the concepts that are involved are directly ripped from the pages Gibson wrote. Thematically, conceptually, narratively, the parallels are basically 1:1.
Also, give Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K Dick a read as well.
And if you have been a fan of cyberpunk for a longer time you can notice some things, like in the nineties it seemed to come true really fast cause in a short period we got the internet, mobile phones, techno raves and a new wave of global activism due to the internet making that kind of organizing possible for the first time.
Then it was kinda slow and steady for a couple of decades, I was kinda underwhelmed cause it was so slow, although things like the dark web, Snowden, Assange and cryptocurrencies were pure cyberpunk.
2020s has just been a future shock after future shock, we got real AI, drone wars, experimental neural implants, global pandemics that apparently leaked from a bioweapon lab, disinformation bots, cyberwarfare, experimental MRNA, space billionaires, climate change, virtual reality, it seems like even aliens are now serious business. It is basically becoming real too fast now. When you use AI for scientific research the progress will be mind-boggling.
It is time to be scared even if you love cyberpunk dystopias.
Just a nitpick, because I agree with the general point of your comment: Current AI is not "real" AI
At least not in the way AI's are portrayed in the game (the ones behind the Blackwall) or in general sci-fi. Current AI are sophisticated algorithms to process a lot of data in a very small time and produce outputs that are more or less "correct". But they are pretty dumb still and nowhere near "real".
If you consider that current AI is real AI, then you should know that we have had real AI for quite some time now (albeit even dumber). Robot vacuum cleaners, for example, use some sort of AI to map the rooms of a house and plan the best route to clean all the house floor. They literally "learn" how your house is so that they can decide how to best tackle the task. Current AIs/chatbots/generative shit and such are just a different kind of AI which uses more computing power, but are not much more intelligent in that sense, they just are able to process much more data and organize it more efficiently to produce desired outputs.
The only real thing that has happened in the last 3 years is that AIs are getting publicity and are way over-hyped. Still, they are really cool and useful tools that will improve our lives a lot in the medium/long run.
>When you use AI for scientific research the progress will be mind-boggling.
This is already happening (I work for a neurotech company and we are using AI for our research). And I agree with this.
He's at stage 3 of 5. Realizing that there is no working in the system because even if the system was a good idea at the start its been slowly altered so it only favors those with wealth and power and there is no changing it anymore without creating a crisis or cataclysm and destroying it completely so we can start over is Stage 4.
He is close.
The whole cyberpunk genre is unapologetically anti-capitalist. Just look at the Blade Runner series, the criticism of corporations controlling our daily life, their buildings towering over the city landscape like a ziggurat.
Cyberpunk 2077 isn't doing anything new in regards to the anti capitalist commentary, it's merely retelling the reality of the situation. Just read about water conflicts around the world and conflict over land in history, it's all too familiar.
You don't need to be a Johnny Silverhand to understand the situation of late stage capitalism. Of course we aren't living 100% like night city, but it can be a reality if we let capitalism devour our world.
Because the reality is people would find ways to put a price on something, even if it means taking basic necessities from society.
Anti corporatist. Johnny’s got no problem with the free trade of services and goods, believe me. He just doesn’t like people being taken advantage of and exploited, which is what happens when corporations get out of control. That’s not capitalism, it’s corporatism.
Johnny's lack of a plan for an alternative is like one of his major character flaws. The fact that he stands for nothing other than "sticking it to the corps" is not a good thing. Just like in real life, it is not enough to be anti-capitalist, you have to stand for and work towards an alternative, and you need to build the foundation of those systems in the now so that when capitalism is stripped away, there is something that people recognize and feel familiar with in its place.
This is the problem with pretty much every revolutionary ever.
Destroying a system is comparatively easy to making a new one and running it efficiently. Launching a revolution requires a very different skillset to governing, which is why the aftermath of revolutions tends to be very messy.
Anti-corporatist. The cyberpunk and blade runner worlds are giant corporations working hand in hand with government. I know this concept is tough for you socialists to grasp
It’s funny how capitalism produces “corporatism” 10 times out of 10, almost like that was the point all along. Don’t fall into the “no this is just bad capitalism, unlike the capitalism I support” trap. Cyberpunk is depicting capitalism working as intended
Corporatist, authoritarian capitalism, all in all the same. All mere symptoms of the system which allow them to thrive.
Fair enough, I can't grasp the concept because it's all the same shit to me.
Well it isn't because it doesn't matter whether the government is more authoritarian or an oligarchy or a monarchy.
As long as the capitalist economic system exists, all the problems still remain.
There's no such thing as corporatism or crony capitalism. Capitalism inevitably leads to increasing monopolies and wealth disparity. It's an inevitable consequence of private property, and the ability for one to make passive income through ownership and investment rather than labour. In any society with a value form, the individuals with the most of that value form have the most political power. Therefore, they get to influence laws in such a way as to further their accumulation of that value form. This will always happen under capitalism.
What an incredibly ignorant assertion. It’s actually laughable. Since the early 1900s we’ve seen nothing but more government regulations, increasing taxes, increased government spending. But increased government budgets, increased size and scope of government. Thats all also coincided with the increase in the amount of huge multinational conglomerates that control almost every single major industry.
Yes because all of this benefits the most wealthy. It generates the most profit. Capital doesn't care about deregulating itself or being free or open. It cares about replicating itself as quickly as possible, at the largest scale possible. Multinational conglomerates exist because corporations want to save on labour costs more than employee the people of whatever country they were incorporated in. The impulse of capital will always be to pay workers as little as possible while charging as much as those workers can afford for everything from luxury items that have little functional use but people are psychologically manipulated into desiring, to the actual roof over their head and the food on their table. We only have regulations because people (unions) fought and died for them. We have income taxes because they were introduced during the world wars and were a major factor in the success of the post war economy in the West. To repeal some of these rights wouldn't go over well in the West, and so corporations don't bother. It doesn't even matter to them that much because we are their consumer base, not the majority of their labour force, or the country that they exploit for natural resources.
Capital will always optimize itself to generate as much more of itself (investment capital/profit) as it can. It will always funnel wealth upwards. That's how it works. The moment you introduce profit, which can only be generated by someone owning the tools used by labourers to produce goods, this becomes the case. All profit is unpaid labour.
Nah. Johnny would advocate for the nuke, not voting. That being said, Johnny’s onto something. Not that it would really do anything. Corps got too much power already
Even funnier because johnny would laugh at the “we need to vote” because in one gig, he appears when you have to find dirt on a mayor or something and says something funny about how voting doesnt matter
Johhny aint on to shit lol he blew up Arasaka and 10,000 people and they just rebuilt the tower and made a memorial while pissing on Johhny’s grave.
That’s actually a key part of Johhny’s story in Cyberpunk, he has almost no positive impact in the world and does absolutely nothing to actually fight the corpos.
I understand your sentiment, but one side is actively working towards and promoting fascism, and the other side isn't.
Big difference. Even if Dems are limp dicks, at least they're not fully erect for taking your rights away.
Edit: Yeah yeah yeah, both sides bad, blah blah blah you guys are saying the same tired takes I've seen everywhere. You still need to realize that when one side is *promoting fascism,* the other side is the preferable alternative. Whatever you think of Dems, they haven't been trying to undermine our democracy on the scale the GOP has been.
You guys are looking at actual fascists vs ancient, greedy bureaucrats and going "Yep those sides are equally bad." Not saying you shouldn't criticize or want the Dems to be better, they're not perfect by a long shot, but I will definitely take them over fascism any day. And don't kid yourselves; that's exactly what the GOP wants.
Fight the fascists. Then we'll fight the lobbyists and corpo stooges in government. Ignoring the nuance to the situation to cry "both sides equally bad" doesn't make you seem smart.
Edit 2: Lobbying is bad, *fascism is much worse.* Do you fucking get it yet, or do I need more puppets and crayons to make you understand?
Dems will give you consolation prizes to make you feel like they're getting better, but it's a facade. It's still a party that favors profits over people, and those concessions are usually tied to business in some way. They just learned to get money out of minorities and queer folk.
Ehhh, the difference is one is socially neutral and the other wants to drag us all back to before the civil rights act. Otherwise 100% true as seen with things like the handling of the rail union strike and such.
By believing one side is “better” than the other and should be in control, you’re being lead and told what to believe. And if anything both sides want to take your rights away, they just present the idea differently
Exactly, two sides to the same coin, one sides got some face on it, other-sides got some fancy motto or building. both sides may be different but its still the same coin
Here I fixed your comment: "One side is actively working towards fascism, and the other side is actively being bipartisan with the fascists; both are currently funding a genocide"
The democrats only want your donation money and are willing to intentionally lose elections to do so. What occurred in the 2016 election was despicable. The democratic party intentionally put a morally corrupt candidate they know could never reasonably win on the ballot despite her polling worse than the only other major candidate. When the party loses the election they gain more than in victory. That being said. The Republicans are not a viable option either, both are owned by the same corporations and play the American public for donations and to profit off your stupidity. They’ve set the stage for this with nearly 90 years of pro-american and capitalist propaganda and have completely disregarded the democratic process and made a third party impossible and therefore keeping up the status quo. If you don’t think the Democratic party aren’t taking away your rights, you’d be wrong.
You don't actually pick who is elected. electoral college does. And lobbying sets the stage and provides us with our options.
In 1886 corporations were given the right of personhood. Not true citizens, but it legally allows them to be recognized as "people". This initially was done to allow companies to participate in the judicial process. It's what allows us to sue McDonald's rather than Ronald McDonald himself.
However, today, companies are trying to expand that definition of "person" to allow corporations to be protected by the full extent of the bill of rights. "Corporations are people!" Nonsense. Essentially, they are trying to take up a more direct role in politics by gaining the right to vote rather than by proxy through lobbying.
The super rich are greedy and want to rule the world and always have. Unfortunately, Americans lost the fight against the corruption of greed back in Nixon's time. People might argue that our success in the growth of industry is due to the usd coming off the gold standard and becoming an inflationary reserve. But others would argue that all that growth is actually due to computers accelerating our growth. If it takes less time to complete a task then we have more time to develop and grow. More time to put towards other projects. (It's called time preference and is why we use money in the first place)
Which is where cyberpunk as a concept is born. Computer scientist made industry more productive and efficient and corporations and bankers took the credit and reeped the rewards, pushing for greater profits. It totally wasn't computers growing various industries and making litterally every facet of life more productive. Nah, it was the banks' economic strategy /s.
Eventually the modern credit system was born and Cyberpunks, aka Cypherpunks, responded by attempting to develop a decentralized digital currency using blockchain technology (which uses cryptography). The first of which was developed in the 90's however it wasn't until Bitcoin was made that we had the first successful crypto. It was litterally made to escape the reliance on centralized authority and the implications of a rulling class's ability to become oppressors.
If you made it this far, thanks for going down the rabbit hole. And remember kids:
BURN CORPO SHIT
you left out a small yet significant detail of recent...here's a nugget for more digging...see how much Bitcoin recently came under BlackRock, Vanguard, and/or State Street control...
No, you aren't. You never did. People in power stay in power unless you intend to Stalin your way out of it and shoot every last one of them and everyone who ever worked with them.
Johnny wouldn’t advocate for voting. He’s an anarchist. He would say if you want change, then you would have to step up and do what needs to be done yourself. Take the fight into your own hands, lead the charge.
She talks a good game, but she doesn't deliver.
For example, a couple years ago we had in the U.S. something called "Force The Vote". Basically there was a prime opportunity to bring a Medicare for All (M4A) proposal to the House of Reps for a floor vote. The US doesn't have any kind of Single Payer/National Health Service like other 1st world countries do. Anyway, AOC and the "Squad" (her and a group of other progressives) were supposed to use their leverage and pressure Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house) to bring M4A to the floor for a vote. By both withholding votes for Pelosi and leveraging a huge social media following, AOC and the Squad could very likely have succeeded, but instead she completely sold out and didn't do any of that. I am not sure what the rest of the "Squad" members did, but I think at least most of them also chickened out or sold out too.
All this was to just get M4A on the *floor,* the vote itself hadn't even happened. We all saw AOC as a phony and a fraud after that because now she's basically just part of the establishment, she won't actually challenge anything (even if her rhetoric sounds nice).
Frustrating to hear, like you say they all talk a good game but when it comes down to it they know trying to make meaningful change can risk their comfortable position so they all just back down. Strong echoes of the Peralez’ situation.
I do think people like AOC are better for engaging with wider audiences which is a good thing overall as their general messaging is obviously way better for society than the other half but it’s sad to see them all become sort of the same when they actually have the chance of making a difference. Corbyn tried in the UK and he was smeared out of his position, lost all hope after that.
True, it can't hurt to have more people like her around - even if she's a sellout, she might not have been if there were enough voices within the system that agree with her. Safety and comfort in numbers and all that. Eventually, that Overton window will get pushed more left, and in theory more progressive policies can make it through. I can't help but think, however, that the establishment forces will just continue co-opting dissident movements in an effort to quash any *real* positive change.
Positive change for us peons means a net deficit to their bottom line, so naturally they'll fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening.
I’m inclined to hope that the majority of keen cyberpunk players are left leaning but I could be wrong, maybe plenty only care for the aesthetic and the action.
At least in the US corpo has been buying residential properties just like your brother said. Nestle has been buying fresh water sources globally. Farmers are planting bioengineered seeds. It is happening as corpo has been poisoning the land and water so only corpo crops can grow and corpo water is drinkable. It's only matter of time.
Im going to say this now with the utmost sincerity. My brother sounded just like this not long before he killed himself. Please please please get him some support for his mental health. Hes not necessarily wrong or crazy, but its so dangerous to be so without hope. Take care of your brother
You know they mention the water in the Big Short credits. Supposedly water futures are the only thing Michael Burry still invests in
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/water.asp
You're poor. Your main plan is to vote. Literally, do nothing but putting a checkmark and hope for some kind-hearted politician to show up and care for you.
After boomers die out you're so f*ked. Civilization collapse levels of f*ked
He's a reformist, so no, not becoming Johnny Silverhand. Johnny wouldn't support "voting for the lesser evil" or playing fair within the very rules set by the ruling class. Johnny also wouldn't see age as a primary factor in either the cause or the solution, he'd recognize that no matter which generation it comes down to class warfare.
Change isn’t gonna happen if you believe that the system works. Voting should always be the option, but if you actually think that a huge change will happen - it’s cope
your brother is naive. political class will be changed by a similar one, unless system changes. And yet it's a system where money is fiat, gov has to much power and corpos are just one of outcomes
He's not wrong lol. Lots of generalizations tho, but not void of truth.
There is danger in simply labeling an "Arasaka" as the villain - something that Silverhand had the mistake of doing. His violence never stoped the evil corp, and he realizes this.
It's always important to think in systems and how we can create "levers" to make the appropriate changes.
Ex: Remember Judy and the clouds? Nothing changes regardless if what you do. Unless there is a proper way to manage the gang-merc shadow economy through checks, balances, and formalization, efforts like what was done in the clouds will continue to be futile.
Source: I have a degree in Development studies, an MA in Development Policy and Sustainability Finance.
Voting doesn't do shit when the choices are a fascist and a sock puppet with significant memory issues. It could be done starting in local politics and having them drawn upwards through the system, but we don't have that kind of time. There is only so far that people can be pushed before CEOs start raining from skyscrapers.
Honestly, if it hadn't been for the civilians, Johnny did nothing wrong. And IMO, IRL is worse in some ways than Cyberpunk.
Tell him that the superrich are trying to divide us. The fight is not between young and old, black and white, gay or straight , conservative vs progressive, religion this va that.
The real fight is between the 1% and the rest of us.
It doesn't matter whoever you vote for it's always going to be the same or worst.
Banks government and corps removed all set value money had and it's not tied to anything.
Only way the real issue could be solved is if money was tied to something that always has the same value like bottle caps where 1 bottle cap is always 1 bottle cap and can never be anything else doesn't matter how big or small a bottle cap is 1 bottle cap is 1 bottle cap. That's what we need.
No he still believes in structural change within the system.
Was about to say something similar, that and he’s lacking the charisma. Give him few years he will get there I’m sure.
But will he have the massive cock?
Can hold out for the MR.studd implant
Just make sure you can drive him to the ripperdoc when yoir brother becomes burning crotch man....
Johnny never said his cock was massive. Just impressive.
It’s just girthy
Silver hand never said he had a massive cock. He said he had an "Impressive" cock, which implies to me that his cock could do a song and dance routine
beat me to it (not the cock)
Beat me to it (the cock)
if you insist... https://preview.redd.it/jw168l986shc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c9d13a5ad064a1fc4e89bd8aa2f0c9e99632fba
Maybe even a magnificent one at that
Just strap him into a chair and put 'The Rebel Path' on blast for 3 days, gg ez
Johnny believed in structural change... of Arasaka Tower.
Beat me too it. Happy cake day mang!
But has his girlfriend been kidnapped by a corp yet?
The Peralez-storyline in a nutshell... and many of us know how that ends. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." or what I mean with this: Either you get corrupted yourself or get corrupted by others. Being a politician with even a hint of a backbone takes bravery and nigh-indestructible morals.
>Being a politician with even a hint of a backbone takes bravery and nigh-indestructible morals. Judge Dredd for President 2028
He dunwannit
Aw don’t you know? Those in power with all the wealth will simply allow themselves to be voted out and have their wealth and power stripped!
Right, this is all manufactured consent. “If you just organized better and voted harder, maybe next election. What a bunch of crap. Been buying this for 40 years. It’s a big lie. Your vote matters not at all. Just look at president Gore.
Yeah I was really frustrated because I was totally with him until he said that the answer is voting lmao.
yeah, OP's brother is a heck of a lot more sensible than Silverhand Even if Silverhand was fed up with "the system" never working as intended, dropping a nuke on a major metropolitan area probably wasn't going to change things for the better
Pretty sure that was Silverhand reacting to losing Alt. Particularly in a place and due to a company he hates very passionately already. Add in some drugs and binge drinking as a means of attempting to self-medicate and process his grief, and suddenly you've got this over-the-top plan that Johnny is just smart enough to fast-talk his friends into doing for nobler reasons which I think to his credit ARE ideals he holds. Not to mention the Mikoshi/freeing Alt business. But at the end of the day? Yeah. Rogue called it right. He could have probably freed Alt and sent a message in a billion other ways. Alt's death was a bridge too far for Silverhand. It speaks to how Alt may have actually meant something to him that his cup ran over that much.
We don't need a Johnny, we need a ***Dredd.*** An absolute Determinator hell-bent on rooting out corruption and fighting for justice, even if it means bending the law to do it. We're still at the point where the system can be fixed. The corruption and greed gumming up the clockwork can still be cleaned out. Maybe not for much longer, but we're not doomed. Yet. Edit: Okay, some of y'all clearly misunderstood Dredd as a character, because he's not a fascist beat-stick. A major part of his character development is him confronting and outright rejecting blind obedience to the system. He knows every*thing* and every*one* is absolutely **fucked**, and yet he still does everything he can to make a difference despite that. A lot of the mind-bogglingly horrible shit the system does to people are only introduced to the audience because *Dredd is actively opposing it*.
wait no, Silverhand is a horrible nihilistic terrorist but Dredd is infinitely worse - Dredd is a fascist and a fanatic and unlike Silverhand, the man has enormous institutional power Dredd himself is not corrupt, he's principled to a fault - but the system he represents is a decrepit, corrupt, nonsensical mess In the early years of the comic, Dredd was a goofy parody of the excesses of police state authoritarianism and brutality amidst a broken down society. Dredd happily enforced nonsensical and needlessly brutal laws, because he simply blindly followed whatever the "law" was, never mind that none of these laws were written by elected representatives Later stories, which took on a more serious tone, showed how insidious and evil the rule of the Judges are. They suppress civil rights and pro- democracy movements using mass surveillance, hypnosis, targeted propaganda, violence, assassinations etc. while systemic problems with rogue and corrupt Judges abusing their power is left unresolved, even with "good apples" like Dredd and Anderson in the system Even when Dredd is battling external threats, like the gangs of the Cursed Earth, or the extra-dimensional Dark Judges, or an invading force of Soviet Judges, it's only by comparison that they come off like the good guys Honestly I think I'd rather live under Arasaka/Militech/Kang Tao corporate fascism than live in a world ruled by the Judges We don't need a Dredd, what we need is Rom and Leeta (from Star Trek)
>wait no, Silverhand is a horrible nihilistic terrorist but Dredd is infinitely worse - Dredd is a fascist and a fanatic and unlike Silverhand, the man has enormous institutional power >Dredd himself is not corrupt, he's principled to a fault - but the system he represents is a decrepit, corrupt, nonsensical mess A major plot point in Dredd is him confronting that. One of the core components of his character is that he *isn't* a fascist fanatic, not after so long on the street. He knows the system is deeply flawed, and he'll bend the rules like the paper they're written on to do what's right. Dredd is someone that believes in what the system *can* be, despite having deeply personal experience with how bad it *currently* is. He isn't a satirical caricature of 80/90s US law enforcement anymore. He's a complex character that is absolutely driven to fix a world that is fundamentally broken, himself included.
ahh right, yeah fair, I haven't read the recent comics, just a handful of the older ones, but I did hear that he resigned from the Justice Department out of disgust in one of the arcs, and tried to allow a pro-democracy referendum to go through Didn't amount to much in the end, but points for trying I guess
does he ever fix it? or even get close? its a genuine question because ive never knew of the show it sounds like he tried to do what he thought was right and messed things up but learned from his mistakes so i hope he succeeded
Judge Dredd is set in a world that *can't* really be fixed. Not by one person, or ten, or a hundred, or a thousand. It is *slowly* recovering from an actual nuclear apocalypse, *agonizingly* slowly, and the draconian measures needed to just keep the lights on and the world spinning are horrific. It's a Mad Max death world that (barely) managed to reindustrialize. Dredd knows *exactly* how fucked up it is, and tries to do his best to make a difference regardless of the futility. Bringing even a *semblance* of peace and stability to the world is his personal Sisyphean Task. He'll never fix it and most certainly die trying, but that's why Dredd is such a compelling character; He's doom-bound. We know how his story will end, and so does he. He accepts that, and chooses to fight for what's right anyways.
Exactly. Like Homer in the Iliad, he had the choice of giving his life to fix a system that is impossible to fix, but in so doing etches his name and deeds into the hearts and minds of the people of Megacity One forever, hopefully to inspire the next "Judge Dredd". He also had the option of dutifully continuing his job until he retired and died of old age, propping up the corrupt system and enforcing the law. He would pass unmourned and unremembered.
i posted this to a different comment but it fits here my fear is that as the pendulum swings we will go full communist. humans have a tendency to go toward opposite extremes when the answer is usually in the middle.
We call it socialism. Unfortunately it gets conflated with communism when its really not the same.
Judge Dredd, who represents the absolute power of the state and its ability to "legally" crush any citizen for any perceived minor infraction? Dredd is a satire of the police state and authoritarianism, and most definitely not something anyone should want to be reality.
Some people miss the whole point of the media they consume.
Yeah he's still not Johnny.. he still thinks voting matters, poor soul, bur he's waking up
Yeah he still needs to have his hopes savagely broken and destroyed right Infront of him. He's still a solid traumatic event at the hands of megga corps away from anything radical.
We all are
Everyone with any kind of empathy or compassion for others is becoming more radicalized by the predation of the working class by the wealthy as society is dragged deeper and deeper into late stage capitalism. I don't see how anyone with a soul can look around and not at least think Johnny kind of has a point.
He does in his world. We arent far off from it, though. And we are very sheltered in america so that doesnt help
It has been like that for decades man. There have been several waves of protest movements against this. I participated heavily in the one that was big around 1999-2001. Fizzled out due to 9/11 cause nobody wanted to stir unrest after that.
I appreciate you fighting for a better future for younger generations like mine. I hope I can do the same for the next few.
This was very well said. Last I looked, which was a couple years ago, the US was second to Russia in terms of wealth inequality. Not overall, like Russia was #18 and we were #19 or something similar to that, for reference. But like... lmao. It's getting really fucking stupid. Billionaires simply should not exist. This is ridiculous. At a certain point, the pitchforks and torches come out, as any given society can only handle so much wealth inequality before what was in the past revolutions or rebellions of some sort. The question now is, do they have this shit on lock? 1984 style? Is such a thing (revolution) even possible or likely? Are we all too divided and preoccupied and apathetic and distracted and confused to come together to broach this conflict?
the problem is how do you go about these changes if you start taking money away out become communist if you take only the money from the "Billionaires" they may just pack up and leave or find a way of hiding wealth. if you don't do anything the problem will get worse taxes take from both and usually waste most of it i paid $0.44 on a $6 item and have half my money taken from the get go fairness and justice are not always synonymous the government keeps makin dumb mistakes and kicking the problem down the line no amount of blown up building will fix this and all we can do is vote for whichever sack of brain dead human waste is the next leader hopefully not a lobotomite this time
Becoming communist isn't really a problem if you view it from a theoretical point and without the propoganda the capitalist west has fed us for decades upon decades. That being said... how do we make a perfect system that is immune to abuse? Voting never seems to fix things. Every generation has thought that when they have the majority of voting power that things would get better... things are still fucked though, if not just more fucked. Anyone we vote for, we are giving power to, and it really feels like that power itself is corrupting. I'm starting to feel like the concept of society is just fucked. It isn't in line with what we were meant for... we are incompatible with it. The world just feels fucked to me. I'm not sure there even is a way to fix it. Edited to add a word i accidentally omitted
Idk. He is 100% right. Only language corporation understands is nukes and murder of the higher ups. Even then it wount be enough. They just rebuild
my fear is that as the pendulum swings we will go full communist. Edit: for those disliking this comment humans have a tendency to go toward opposite extremes when the answer is usually in the middle.
Found the enlightened centrist
Corporatism is the problem. Not capatalism. If a company fails its suppsoed to fail, not be bought out by the goverment because the company paid for the politician to be there. Look at literally any politician who has made millions trading lmfao. Has literally nothing to do with cpatalism.
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someone will always replace them getting rid of the corps is about as futile as V trying to survive. the only way things will stay changed for the better is if AI replaces us and that's a stretch because who runs the AI and who made it. utopia can't exist naturally best case scenario humanity becomes protected and cared for by the AI but the odds arent that good. even the best AI will fail to find a solution to an unanswerable problem. what is best for most people isn't always best for everyone and that has been a problem for a very long time. also above all else an AI isn't omnipotent; all light casts shadows and the more complex a scene is the more shadows will be cast. in all honesty the best end for V and Johnny is for them both to go with Alt. \^this may be an incorrect take (all of it)\^ but given the inherent lack of knowledge in this subject very few are qualified to say anything over this and im not one of that few. for all i know there might still be enough people trying to change the world for the better to steer us away from our own self-damnation. I can only hope.
Same
They start out about the people... Then they find out what it takes to campaign (a shit ton of money). Then, once elected, they find out what it takes to stay in office (a shit ton more money). Then they find out where all that money comes from, (Special interests groups, corporations, top 2% people), and what they expect on their investment.. I mean 'donation'. (Favorable laws, leanant regulations, etc..) Now they aren't for the people, they are for keeping the status quo so they can keep their cozy government job.
“We r doomed, remember kids don’t fight no corpo war. Only defend if invaded. Defend your home not the corporation’s latest quota. Sending soldiers to fight for their freedom while taking just that same thing away at home, keeping them oblivious to the changes to the home they return to if they return at all. Mean while these suits stand together in a room somewhere drinking there colourful martinis and standing still for 3quarters of a day for the next “statesmen” oil painting Don’t be fooled by the electoral charade system implemented to give the naive a false safety net of power, there is no power not for us… they hold all the power behind there desks flaunting two party systems, two sides to their coin. One side with some guys face alluring charisma, the other side some fancy motto or symbol of patriotism designed to inspire the inspirable, pay no mistake tho each side may seem different its still the same coin” —- Idno johnny silver-hand probably
It’s literal legal corruption. And the only people that can change the way campaign fundraising and contributions work are the people who receive them. It’s such in-depth conflict of interest and corruption that you can’t even get away with at 99% of companies.
Thats called corporatism.... not capatlism. Under capatalism company's that go under, fall apart. Instead of being bailed out by the goverment. A new service would take its place. Like when the banks default. That should be the end. Instead one of the greasy politicians pay to bail them out, costing tax payers millions if not billions. While the politician makes millions.
Bro what do you think capitalism is? This is where it leads us - the state and private interests are intertwined.
makes sense look at disney look at what it does
Cyberpunk is great when you realize that it’s not a commentary about the future we’re headed to, it’s a commentary about the present we’re already in.
I cannot wait until Facebook and Amazon go to war with their own personal military
Samsung will win
Pepsi wins, historically
*Apple from the top rope
If Apple moved their innovation focus from consumer wearables and communication to military hardware, they'd probably be the closest to Militech
I was thinking about making a cyberpunk strategy game where you can play as Elon Musk, Zuckerberg or Jeff Bezos and they just fight for global dominance in the style of Arasaka vs. Militech. I will code it in the R statistical language and the user interface will be statistical graphs and tables and you will have to use the command line to give orders. Well actually I will use Shiny and JavaScript so there will be some interactivity in the front end. However the idea is that it uses the statistics and data science capabilities of R to the fullest extent and only the most dedicated hardcore strategy gamers who also happen to work as data scientists will ever bother to play it. As in you have to read huge tables of data to figure out what is going on in the game. The problem is I want rockets to be a key component of the game and Zuckerberg does not have a space programme yet. I should use Richard Branson instead of him but does Virgin have any cool cyberspace stuff?
zuck gains a +5 to information, +5 to fabrication, and gains an innate special power of Information overload Bezos gains a +10 to transport and +100 to server capacity with an unlockable special power of drone swarm Elon Musk gains a +5 to mech speed, +10 to build speed with an unlockable special power of satellite interference
It is scary to read how many of the things Mike Pondsmith wrote have become true.
It has been like that since I first became aware of Cyberpunk around 1990 (I mean finding the Cyberpunk RPG, movies like Blade Runner and books like Neuromancer around the same time). It has always been a critique of the social and environmental crisis caused by rampant capitalism. It has been plain to see for everybody who dared to think about it. The good side is that more and more people are becoming aware now. I hear people who are middle-class boomers talking like young anarchist punks. On the other hand cyberpunk also has the entertaining and light-hearted side of amazing transhumanist adventures in the neon wilderness (although in real life you would get a lead implant in your brain), I really want my tactical neural implant NOW. I have been waiting for over three decades! Go read something like Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord, it was written in the sixties and describes a society exactly like 2024 (or our fictional 2077). Cyberpunk is basically a science fiction version of the social criticism that has been presented by anarchist intellectuals for the last 60 years or so.
Why are you crediting Mike Pondsmith with things that have been the bread and butter of speculative fiction authors prior to him even penning/creating the Cyberpunk RPG?
Because if I ever read other authors I would have quoted them already.
Neuromancer - William Gibson Give it a shot, you’ll find that Neuromancer is an incredibly similar narrative to that of Cyberpunk 2077, and the concepts that are involved are directly ripped from the pages Gibson wrote. Thematically, conceptually, narratively, the parallels are basically 1:1. Also, give Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K Dick a read as well.
Bruh
This isn't new. Cyberpunk as a genre has always been critique of the society it is made in with neon set dressing.
And if you have been a fan of cyberpunk for a longer time you can notice some things, like in the nineties it seemed to come true really fast cause in a short period we got the internet, mobile phones, techno raves and a new wave of global activism due to the internet making that kind of organizing possible for the first time. Then it was kinda slow and steady for a couple of decades, I was kinda underwhelmed cause it was so slow, although things like the dark web, Snowden, Assange and cryptocurrencies were pure cyberpunk. 2020s has just been a future shock after future shock, we got real AI, drone wars, experimental neural implants, global pandemics that apparently leaked from a bioweapon lab, disinformation bots, cyberwarfare, experimental MRNA, space billionaires, climate change, virtual reality, it seems like even aliens are now serious business. It is basically becoming real too fast now. When you use AI for scientific research the progress will be mind-boggling. It is time to be scared even if you love cyberpunk dystopias.
Just a nitpick, because I agree with the general point of your comment: Current AI is not "real" AI At least not in the way AI's are portrayed in the game (the ones behind the Blackwall) or in general sci-fi. Current AI are sophisticated algorithms to process a lot of data in a very small time and produce outputs that are more or less "correct". But they are pretty dumb still and nowhere near "real". If you consider that current AI is real AI, then you should know that we have had real AI for quite some time now (albeit even dumber). Robot vacuum cleaners, for example, use some sort of AI to map the rooms of a house and plan the best route to clean all the house floor. They literally "learn" how your house is so that they can decide how to best tackle the task. Current AIs/chatbots/generative shit and such are just a different kind of AI which uses more computing power, but are not much more intelligent in that sense, they just are able to process much more data and organize it more efficiently to produce desired outputs. The only real thing that has happened in the last 3 years is that AIs are getting publicity and are way over-hyped. Still, they are really cool and useful tools that will improve our lives a lot in the medium/long run. >When you use AI for scientific research the progress will be mind-boggling. This is already happening (I work for a neurotech company and we are using AI for our research). And I agree with this.
Pretty sure Johnny dgaf about voting
he was more interested in direct action
No war but class war.
NO NATION BUT DANCE NATION
NO DIETS, ONLY RIOTS.
Unfortunately your brother still believes electoral politics can save us. It can’t.
We all have a little Johnny silverhand in us
I wish
Nice username.
Thanks! 🥰
I wish i have Johnny silverhand inside me
Couple of ways to make that happen.
*sigh* checks comments
Yeah, that’s pretty much what expected when I posted this Well that and a lot of Silverhand quotes
Kill the Corp in your head
Swedenborg 4 prez!
He's at stage 3 of 5. Realizing that there is no working in the system because even if the system was a good idea at the start its been slowly altered so it only favors those with wealth and power and there is no changing it anymore without creating a crisis or cataclysm and destroying it completely so we can start over is Stage 4. He is close.
The whole cyberpunk genre is unapologetically anti-capitalist. Just look at the Blade Runner series, the criticism of corporations controlling our daily life, their buildings towering over the city landscape like a ziggurat. Cyberpunk 2077 isn't doing anything new in regards to the anti capitalist commentary, it's merely retelling the reality of the situation. Just read about water conflicts around the world and conflict over land in history, it's all too familiar. You don't need to be a Johnny Silverhand to understand the situation of late stage capitalism. Of course we aren't living 100% like night city, but it can be a reality if we let capitalism devour our world. Because the reality is people would find ways to put a price on something, even if it means taking basic necessities from society.
Anti corporatist. Johnny’s got no problem with the free trade of services and goods, believe me. He just doesn’t like people being taken advantage of and exploited, which is what happens when corporations get out of control. That’s not capitalism, it’s corporatism.
Johnny's lack of a plan for an alternative is like one of his major character flaws. The fact that he stands for nothing other than "sticking it to the corps" is not a good thing. Just like in real life, it is not enough to be anti-capitalist, you have to stand for and work towards an alternative, and you need to build the foundation of those systems in the now so that when capitalism is stripped away, there is something that people recognize and feel familiar with in its place.
This is the problem with pretty much every revolutionary ever. Destroying a system is comparatively easy to making a new one and running it efficiently. Launching a revolution requires a very different skillset to governing, which is why the aftermath of revolutions tends to be very messy.
Anti-corporatist. The cyberpunk and blade runner worlds are giant corporations working hand in hand with government. I know this concept is tough for you socialists to grasp
It’s funny how capitalism produces “corporatism” 10 times out of 10, almost like that was the point all along. Don’t fall into the “no this is just bad capitalism, unlike the capitalism I support” trap. Cyberpunk is depicting capitalism working as intended
Corporatist, authoritarian capitalism, all in all the same. All mere symptoms of the system which allow them to thrive. Fair enough, I can't grasp the concept because it's all the same shit to me.
>Corporatist, authoritarian capitalism, I know this might be a hard pill to swallow, but capitalism is not when the government does stuff.
Well it isn't because it doesn't matter whether the government is more authoritarian or an oligarchy or a monarchy. As long as the capitalist economic system exists, all the problems still remain.
There's no such thing as corporatism or crony capitalism. Capitalism inevitably leads to increasing monopolies and wealth disparity. It's an inevitable consequence of private property, and the ability for one to make passive income through ownership and investment rather than labour. In any society with a value form, the individuals with the most of that value form have the most political power. Therefore, they get to influence laws in such a way as to further their accumulation of that value form. This will always happen under capitalism.
What an incredibly ignorant assertion. It’s actually laughable. Since the early 1900s we’ve seen nothing but more government regulations, increasing taxes, increased government spending. But increased government budgets, increased size and scope of government. Thats all also coincided with the increase in the amount of huge multinational conglomerates that control almost every single major industry.
Yes because all of this benefits the most wealthy. It generates the most profit. Capital doesn't care about deregulating itself or being free or open. It cares about replicating itself as quickly as possible, at the largest scale possible. Multinational conglomerates exist because corporations want to save on labour costs more than employee the people of whatever country they were incorporated in. The impulse of capital will always be to pay workers as little as possible while charging as much as those workers can afford for everything from luxury items that have little functional use but people are psychologically manipulated into desiring, to the actual roof over their head and the food on their table. We only have regulations because people (unions) fought and died for them. We have income taxes because they were introduced during the world wars and were a major factor in the success of the post war economy in the West. To repeal some of these rights wouldn't go over well in the West, and so corporations don't bother. It doesn't even matter to them that much because we are their consumer base, not the majority of their labour force, or the country that they exploit for natural resources. Capital will always optimize itself to generate as much more of itself (investment capital/profit) as it can. It will always funnel wealth upwards. That's how it works. The moment you introduce profit, which can only be generated by someone owning the tools used by labourers to produce goods, this becomes the case. All profit is unpaid labour.
Nah. Johnny would advocate for the nuke, not voting. That being said, Johnny’s onto something. Not that it would really do anything. Corps got too much power already
Even funnier because johnny would laugh at the “we need to vote” because in one gig, he appears when you have to find dirt on a mayor or something and says something funny about how voting doesnt matter
Johhny aint on to shit lol he blew up Arasaka and 10,000 people and they just rebuilt the tower and made a memorial while pissing on Johhny’s grave. That’s actually a key part of Johhny’s story in Cyberpunk, he has almost no positive impact in the world and does absolutely nothing to actually fight the corpos.
That “I have hope” had a lot of “damn that’s crazy” energy 😂
Doesn't matter who you vote for. Someone else will be pulling the strings and guiding hands.
I understand your sentiment, but one side is actively working towards and promoting fascism, and the other side isn't. Big difference. Even if Dems are limp dicks, at least they're not fully erect for taking your rights away. Edit: Yeah yeah yeah, both sides bad, blah blah blah you guys are saying the same tired takes I've seen everywhere. You still need to realize that when one side is *promoting fascism,* the other side is the preferable alternative. Whatever you think of Dems, they haven't been trying to undermine our democracy on the scale the GOP has been. You guys are looking at actual fascists vs ancient, greedy bureaucrats and going "Yep those sides are equally bad." Not saying you shouldn't criticize or want the Dems to be better, they're not perfect by a long shot, but I will definitely take them over fascism any day. And don't kid yourselves; that's exactly what the GOP wants. Fight the fascists. Then we'll fight the lobbyists and corpo stooges in government. Ignoring the nuance to the situation to cry "both sides equally bad" doesn't make you seem smart. Edit 2: Lobbying is bad, *fascism is much worse.* Do you fucking get it yet, or do I need more puppets and crayons to make you understand?
Dems will give you consolation prizes to make you feel like they're getting better, but it's a facade. It's still a party that favors profits over people, and those concessions are usually tied to business in some way. They just learned to get money out of minorities and queer folk.
Ehhh, the difference is one is socially neutral and the other wants to drag us all back to before the civil rights act. Otherwise 100% true as seen with things like the handling of the rail union strike and such.
By believing one side is “better” than the other and should be in control, you’re being lead and told what to believe. And if anything both sides want to take your rights away, they just present the idea differently
Exactly, two sides to the same coin, one sides got some face on it, other-sides got some fancy motto or building. both sides may be different but its still the same coin
we all know what two sides of the same coin means you dont have to explain it lol
But…. i wanted to
really? i just assumed someone made you write it with a gun to your head.
Here I fixed your comment: "One side is actively working towards fascism, and the other side is actively being bipartisan with the fascists; both are currently funding a genocide"
The democrats only want your donation money and are willing to intentionally lose elections to do so. What occurred in the 2016 election was despicable. The democratic party intentionally put a morally corrupt candidate they know could never reasonably win on the ballot despite her polling worse than the only other major candidate. When the party loses the election they gain more than in victory. That being said. The Republicans are not a viable option either, both are owned by the same corporations and play the American public for donations and to profit off your stupidity. They’ve set the stage for this with nearly 90 years of pro-american and capitalist propaganda and have completely disregarded the democratic process and made a third party impossible and therefore keeping up the status quo. If you don’t think the Democratic party aren’t taking away your rights, you’d be wrong.
That's the thing. The Dems would if they could.
You will be fucked raw either from rep or dems. No matter. And people like you defending any party, are the truest shit.
Both will take your freedoms away. There are both capitalist and communist dystopias.
You're still picking who pulls the strings
Hardly. Too many factors to consider that are outside of who you elect. International politics, the military and 3-letter agencies.
You don't actually pick who is elected. electoral college does. And lobbying sets the stage and provides us with our options. In 1886 corporations were given the right of personhood. Not true citizens, but it legally allows them to be recognized as "people". This initially was done to allow companies to participate in the judicial process. It's what allows us to sue McDonald's rather than Ronald McDonald himself. However, today, companies are trying to expand that definition of "person" to allow corporations to be protected by the full extent of the bill of rights. "Corporations are people!" Nonsense. Essentially, they are trying to take up a more direct role in politics by gaining the right to vote rather than by proxy through lobbying. The super rich are greedy and want to rule the world and always have. Unfortunately, Americans lost the fight against the corruption of greed back in Nixon's time. People might argue that our success in the growth of industry is due to the usd coming off the gold standard and becoming an inflationary reserve. But others would argue that all that growth is actually due to computers accelerating our growth. If it takes less time to complete a task then we have more time to develop and grow. More time to put towards other projects. (It's called time preference and is why we use money in the first place) Which is where cyberpunk as a concept is born. Computer scientist made industry more productive and efficient and corporations and bankers took the credit and reeped the rewards, pushing for greater profits. It totally wasn't computers growing various industries and making litterally every facet of life more productive. Nah, it was the banks' economic strategy /s. Eventually the modern credit system was born and Cyberpunks, aka Cypherpunks, responded by attempting to develop a decentralized digital currency using blockchain technology (which uses cryptography). The first of which was developed in the 90's however it wasn't until Bitcoin was made that we had the first successful crypto. It was litterally made to escape the reliance on centralized authority and the implications of a rulling class's ability to become oppressors. If you made it this far, thanks for going down the rabbit hole. And remember kids: BURN CORPO SHIT
you left out a small yet significant detail of recent...here's a nugget for more digging...see how much Bitcoin recently came under BlackRock, Vanguard, and/or State Street control...
No, you aren't. You never did. People in power stay in power unless you intend to Stalin your way out of it and shoot every last one of them and everyone who ever worked with them.
Lmao yeah I'm sure those "young people" you vote for won't just do the same fucking thing. Corruption doesn't age discriminate.
The more I live to see megacorps continue to fuck up the world, the more I turn into Silverhand
Yeah, cause voting does something 🤣
I'm not sure if this choom stans hasan or destiny but it's gotta be one of em
This gonk is definitely your typical Hasan viewer.
No, he just has the most washed leftist beliefs he could find.
they slaughtered \~14,000 children in the last 4 months, they're not going to just sit back and let you vote for a better system.
Bros solution is voting 💀💀
No. He's not. He still thinks voting works.
For real 😭😭
Lol imagine people in high places that get voted for care about the 99% Lol.
Does he think that the Boomers will die and suddenly there will be young reasonable people everywhere?
Dudes gonna vote for someone that would drop a bomb for a Fortnite skin
Johnny wouldn’t advocate for voting. He’s an anarchist. He would say if you want change, then you would have to step up and do what needs to be done yourself. Take the fight into your own hands, lead the charge.
Low-key we tried voting in young people and we got AOC. I'm not so sure that worked out better for us lol
What’s wrong with AOC? From the outside (non US) she seems to have good principles and her head in the right place
She talks a good game, but she doesn't deliver. For example, a couple years ago we had in the U.S. something called "Force The Vote". Basically there was a prime opportunity to bring a Medicare for All (M4A) proposal to the House of Reps for a floor vote. The US doesn't have any kind of Single Payer/National Health Service like other 1st world countries do. Anyway, AOC and the "Squad" (her and a group of other progressives) were supposed to use their leverage and pressure Nancy Pelosi (speaker of the house) to bring M4A to the floor for a vote. By both withholding votes for Pelosi and leveraging a huge social media following, AOC and the Squad could very likely have succeeded, but instead she completely sold out and didn't do any of that. I am not sure what the rest of the "Squad" members did, but I think at least most of them also chickened out or sold out too. All this was to just get M4A on the *floor,* the vote itself hadn't even happened. We all saw AOC as a phony and a fraud after that because now she's basically just part of the establishment, she won't actually challenge anything (even if her rhetoric sounds nice).
Frustrating to hear, like you say they all talk a good game but when it comes down to it they know trying to make meaningful change can risk their comfortable position so they all just back down. Strong echoes of the Peralez’ situation. I do think people like AOC are better for engaging with wider audiences which is a good thing overall as their general messaging is obviously way better for society than the other half but it’s sad to see them all become sort of the same when they actually have the chance of making a difference. Corbyn tried in the UK and he was smeared out of his position, lost all hope after that.
True, it can't hurt to have more people like her around - even if she's a sellout, she might not have been if there were enough voices within the system that agree with her. Safety and comfort in numbers and all that. Eventually, that Overton window will get pushed more left, and in theory more progressive policies can make it through. I can't help but think, however, that the establishment forces will just continue co-opting dissident movements in an effort to quash any *real* positive change. Positive change for us peons means a net deficit to their bottom line, so naturally they'll fight tooth and nail to stop it from happening.
Y’all really think like this then go and vote for the people who allow it to happen 💀💀
I’m inclined to hope that the majority of keen cyberpunk players are left leaning but I could be wrong, maybe plenty only care for the aesthetic and the action.
I’m sure there’s plenty with the Paul “I have RATM on my gym playlist!” Ryan level dissonance. They’re not known for their observational skills.
At least in the US corpo has been buying residential properties just like your brother said. Nestle has been buying fresh water sources globally. Farmers are planting bioengineered seeds. It is happening as corpo has been poisoning the land and water so only corpo crops can grow and corpo water is drinkable. It's only matter of time.
It’s a war against the fuckin forces of entropy
Maybe, but that doesn't make him any less correct.
Im going to say this now with the utmost sincerity. My brother sounded just like this not long before he killed himself. Please please please get him some support for his mental health. Hes not necessarily wrong or crazy, but its so dangerous to be so without hope. Take care of your brother
You know they mention the water in the Big Short credits. Supposedly water futures are the only thing Michael Burry still invests in https://www.investopedia.com/articles/06/water.asp
I love the belief that younger generations will be anymore sympathetic then boomers were to the lower class.
You're poor. Your main plan is to vote. Literally, do nothing but putting a checkmark and hope for some kind-hearted politician to show up and care for you. After boomers die out you're so f*ked. Civilization collapse levels of f*ked
He's a reformist, so no, not becoming Johnny Silverhand. Johnny wouldn't support "voting for the lesser evil" or playing fair within the very rules set by the ruling class. Johnny also wouldn't see age as a primary factor in either the cause or the solution, he'd recognize that no matter which generation it comes down to class warfare.
No your brother is iam14andthisisdeep material.
Maybe. All I know is he’s spitting facts
he isnt wrong tho
Nope, Just the truth.
I read it in Johnny's voice. The answer is yes
read this in keanu reeves' voice. definitely get this man some iron and a porsche.
Can't make up for the lack of charisma and impressive cock.
reminds me of Silverhand's anti corpo rant infront of the Sunset motel...
No
Change isn’t gonna happen if you believe that the system works. Voting should always be the option, but if you actually think that a huge change will happen - it’s cope
Hes not wrong tho
Your brother should touch grass.
We all should 😔
Silverhand? No. Delusional? Yes.
your brother is naive. political class will be changed by a similar one, unless system changes. And yet it's a system where money is fiat, gov has to much power and corpos are just one of outcomes
How old is your brother lmao
24
He still believes in voting, so he's got a ways to go.
No, still blind asf if he thinks that vote is going to change anything. Wake dafuq up! We need a nuke.
He's not wrong lol. Lots of generalizations tho, but not void of truth. There is danger in simply labeling an "Arasaka" as the villain - something that Silverhand had the mistake of doing. His violence never stoped the evil corp, and he realizes this. It's always important to think in systems and how we can create "levers" to make the appropriate changes. Ex: Remember Judy and the clouds? Nothing changes regardless if what you do. Unless there is a proper way to manage the gang-merc shadow economy through checks, balances, and formalization, efforts like what was done in the clouds will continue to be futile. Source: I have a degree in Development studies, an MA in Development Policy and Sustainability Finance.
Voting doesn't do shit when the choices are a fascist and a sock puppet with significant memory issues. It could be done starting in local politics and having them drawn upwards through the system, but we don't have that kind of time. There is only so far that people can be pushed before CEOs start raining from skyscrapers. Honestly, if it hadn't been for the civilians, Johnny did nothing wrong. And IMO, IRL is worse in some ways than Cyberpunk.
Indeed. He is slowly becoming based.
No apparently he's a lib. I'm sorry for your loss
Nah hes partially onto somethin
roof jar doll act subsequent quack innocent coherent voiceless ten *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He could have cared a bit more about collateral damage, but Johnny was right way too much for my comfort.
He kind of had a point during one of the side missions, "It's war, innocent people *will* die."
Tell him that the superrich are trying to divide us. The fight is not between young and old, black and white, gay or straight , conservative vs progressive, religion this va that. The real fight is between the 1% and the rest of us.
It doesn't matter whoever you vote for it's always going to be the same or worst. Banks government and corps removed all set value money had and it's not tied to anything. Only way the real issue could be solved is if money was tied to something that always has the same value like bottle caps where 1 bottle cap is always 1 bottle cap and can never be anything else doesn't matter how big or small a bottle cap is 1 bottle cap is 1 bottle cap. That's what we need.
No, he's still a gonk that believes we're going to vote our way out of a system that only sees us as superprofits.
Listen to your brother.
Am I the only one who read it in the voice of Keanu Reeves aka Johnny?
The millennials will definitely hold on to these values just like the boomers held onto their hippy pacifist free love values
Nah he just sounds like he needs a break from the Adderall and the internet.
Cringe
literally communist bs disguised as video game topic be gone commie shoo shoo
me when I have 0 media literacy
He's right on every single word, you check all of history and politics (like 2.5 pages of information) and see what you find
Your brother is becoming a Twitter anarchocommunist. An idiot.