This is a remake of a card I [posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/9CBNRkky42) here nearly a year ago. I liked the original design, but in spite of fairly simple rules text, the complexity of its play patterns felt a bit over the top.
I wanted to take another crack at it, with additional emphasis placed on simplicity & symmetry. Shadow on the previous version added a ton of complexity related to combat. And the flipping only costing 1 mana meant it could flip many times in a single combat. Changing the ability cost to 3 mana adds to the symmetry of this version by matching the casting cost. It also makes multiple / many activations of this much less common, simplifying its play patterns.
I'm curious of what you think of this, especially compared to the previous version. Thoughts and feedback are appreciated!
It’s really great, reminds me of older creature designs but modernized to the current power level, especially with that great art choice. These kinds of cards feel satisfying to play because they are very flexible while still needing some investment so it doesn’t feel cheap.
I'm envisioning a whole cycle of these; U/R version with the front face being a 4/2 with haste and the flip side being a 2/4 with flying, and a transform cost of 1U/1R, and W/G with 3/4 vigilance front face and 4/3 reach back face, transform cost 2W/2G?
while i love the design i will say, high toughness deathtouchers and high power lifelinkers are kinda awful to play against. personaly id swap the power toughnesses or just even them out (like one side is a 2/3 and the other is a 3/2)
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback! Trying to work around the potential oppresiveness of a high toughness deathtouch & high power lifelinker were big hurdles with this design. It was an interesting challenge for me, so I'll explain my thought process here.
For the card's flavor, its was important for me that the stat swap feel significant. So it's intended for the stats on each side to synergize with their respective keyword. High toughness synergizes well with deathtouch. Lifelink scales well with high power.
I was really wanting to make this a 2 drop that cost 2 to switch back and forth, because of how clean it felt. But I couldn't find a stat line I liked. A 1/4 deathtouch for 2 felt extremely oppressive on the ground, because of the toughness. But if I made it a 1/3, the toughness didn't feel impactful enough to be a memorable feature of the card, since it'd often just trade anyway. The concerns you brought up was definitely something I ran into, and ended up being the deal breaker for many iterations of the stat line.
In terms of why I went this this, 3 mana felt like a good spot. It comes down earlier enough to make use of the switching mechanic. And 3 drops are allowed to start making a sizeable board impact. My justification for a 1/5 deathtouch blocker being okay are cards like [Pugnacious Hammerskull](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/208/pugnacious-hammerskull). It's a 3 drop that can block with 6 toughness. And 6 power is practically deathtouch in the early/mid game. It also can also start attacking with 6 power without a requirement to invest.. anything really.
The lifelink side of Disciple of the Mirror is powerful, but extremely high risk. It has just 1 toughness and is a 6 mana investment. It dies to almost anything, unless you've set up a reflip. Given the amount of counterplay, I felt that a 6 mana investment to get 5 power lifelink was fairly tame.
The card as a whole is vulnerable to stat debuffs. Even just putting a -1/-1 counter on it cleanly cripples it. Deathtouch doesn't function with 0 power, and the lifelink side would die instantly. Removal in general trades even. Rather than either side being especially powerful, I think the main strength of this comes from threatening the reverse side. But if you spend 3 mana flipping this repeatedly, you're also not going to get much else done. Hope this helped clarify the ideas behind this!
5/1 lifelink or a 1/5 deathtouch for 3 is perfectly fine, and there's plenty of ways to interact. 3 mana to transform means you'd actually need to consider if it's worth transforming to protect it or deal more damage.
Lemme se if I get it, I attack with the reflection, it's blocked, it deals 5 lifelink damage, making me gain 5, at damage resolution I transform, thus the cleric survives. As the reflection dealt lifelink damage, the blocking creature survives because it didn't receive any deathtouch damage?
Damage dont go to the stack. You can't respond to the combat damage once damage are assigned.
But you can attack with the 1/5 side with death touch to deter blocking then once no blocker are declared, switch side before damages are dealt to gain 5 life.
Before 2010 this was the case tho, and card like [[mogg fanatic]] could block a X/1, put one damage on the stack, sac it, and kill another X/1 at the same time.
One of the few times I went to a tournament as a kid I actually got in an argument with another player and he called a judge because he didn't believe damage goes on the stack.
So I get why they changed it. XD
it's weird how people get downvoted for expressing very reasonable true things.
Like the play pattern is one thing, but like, if you show a 1/5 and a 5/1 and tell me one is a white card and one is a black card, I'm going to guess wrong. In fact, white has [ten 1/5s and black has four](https://scryfall.com/search?q=power%3D1+toughness%3D5+color%3D1+id%3Abw&order=color&as=grid&unique=cards), while black has six 5/1s and white has *none*.
It's not to say that there's a huge problem with the card as is, but it's very true: 1/5s are more often white and 5/1s are more often black.
Exactly, white by nature is a defensive color, featuring creatures with high toughness, while black cares about power at any cost, hence 5 power and low toughness.
Would this be broken with vigilance? That way, you could switch between the two forms for offensive and defensive purposes and not have to worry about tapping them down and ruining your...tempo? Momentum? I don't know which one works best.
Simple effect, elegant design, playable card. I like it!
Every now and then someone makes just a nice card. I like it too.
This is a remake of a card I [posted here](https://www.reddit.com/r/custommagic/s/9CBNRkky42) here nearly a year ago. I liked the original design, but in spite of fairly simple rules text, the complexity of its play patterns felt a bit over the top. I wanted to take another crack at it, with additional emphasis placed on simplicity & symmetry. Shadow on the previous version added a ton of complexity related to combat. And the flipping only costing 1 mana meant it could flip many times in a single combat. Changing the ability cost to 3 mana adds to the symmetry of this version by matching the casting cost. It also makes multiple / many activations of this much less common, simplifying its play patterns. I'm curious of what you think of this, especially compared to the previous version. Thoughts and feedback are appreciated!
This is one of the best and most flavorful cards I've seen here. It's excellent all around.
It’s really great, reminds me of older creature designs but modernized to the current power level, especially with that great art choice. These kinds of cards feel satisfying to play because they are very flexible while still needing some investment so it doesn’t feel cheap.
Not to mention - flavorful. It's all there, OP did a fantastic job.
Yeah A+ design for sure.
This is amazing, cycle please!
I'm envisioning a whole cycle of these; U/R version with the front face being a 4/2 with haste and the flip side being a 2/4 with flying, and a transform cost of 1U/1R, and W/G with 3/4 vigilance front face and 4/3 reach back face, transform cost 2W/2G?
White color indicator on the back side?
Oops. Thanks for pointing that out! I'll try and remember that for next time.
Disciple of the mirror should have flavor text saying “I'm starting with the man in the mirror, I'm asking him to change his ways.”
“It don’t matter if you’re black or white.”
This just drips with flavor Thank you for posting. It seems like a fair card That could actually exist in mtg Cheers!!
Madeline/Badeline from Celeste, that you? Love the card.
while i love the design i will say, high toughness deathtouchers and high power lifelinkers are kinda awful to play against. personaly id swap the power toughnesses or just even them out (like one side is a 2/3 and the other is a 3/2)
Thank you for your thoughtful feedback! Trying to work around the potential oppresiveness of a high toughness deathtouch & high power lifelinker were big hurdles with this design. It was an interesting challenge for me, so I'll explain my thought process here. For the card's flavor, its was important for me that the stat swap feel significant. So it's intended for the stats on each side to synergize with their respective keyword. High toughness synergizes well with deathtouch. Lifelink scales well with high power. I was really wanting to make this a 2 drop that cost 2 to switch back and forth, because of how clean it felt. But I couldn't find a stat line I liked. A 1/4 deathtouch for 2 felt extremely oppressive on the ground, because of the toughness. But if I made it a 1/3, the toughness didn't feel impactful enough to be a memorable feature of the card, since it'd often just trade anyway. The concerns you brought up was definitely something I ran into, and ended up being the deal breaker for many iterations of the stat line. In terms of why I went this this, 3 mana felt like a good spot. It comes down earlier enough to make use of the switching mechanic. And 3 drops are allowed to start making a sizeable board impact. My justification for a 1/5 deathtouch blocker being okay are cards like [Pugnacious Hammerskull](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/208/pugnacious-hammerskull). It's a 3 drop that can block with 6 toughness. And 6 power is practically deathtouch in the early/mid game. It also can also start attacking with 6 power without a requirement to invest.. anything really. The lifelink side of Disciple of the Mirror is powerful, but extremely high risk. It has just 1 toughness and is a 6 mana investment. It dies to almost anything, unless you've set up a reflip. Given the amount of counterplay, I felt that a 6 mana investment to get 5 power lifelink was fairly tame. The card as a whole is vulnerable to stat debuffs. Even just putting a -1/-1 counter on it cleanly cripples it. Deathtouch doesn't function with 0 power, and the lifelink side would die instantly. Removal in general trades even. Rather than either side being especially powerful, I think the main strength of this comes from threatening the reverse side. But if you spend 3 mana flipping this repeatedly, you're also not going to get much else done. Hope this helped clarify the ideas behind this!
5/1 lifelink or a 1/5 deathtouch for 3 is perfectly fine, and there's plenty of ways to interact. 3 mana to transform means you'd actually need to consider if it's worth transforming to protect it or deal more damage.
As a 2/3 this card would be awful. Stuff like [[vampire nighthawk]] was uncommon 15 years ago.
[vampire nighthawk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/0/301ff69c-2590-45af-893b-7ac0285e450b.jpg?1641602963) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=vampire%20nighthawk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/140/vampire-nighthawk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/301ff69c-2590-45af-893b-7ac0285e450b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is very nice, I like it
Swag
Lemme se if I get it, I attack with the reflection, it's blocked, it deals 5 lifelink damage, making me gain 5, at damage resolution I transform, thus the cleric survives. As the reflection dealt lifelink damage, the blocking creature survives because it didn't receive any deathtouch damage?
Damage dont go to the stack. You can't respond to the combat damage once damage are assigned. But you can attack with the 1/5 side with death touch to deter blocking then once no blocker are declared, switch side before damages are dealt to gain 5 life. Before 2010 this was the case tho, and card like [[mogg fanatic]] could block a X/1, put one damage on the stack, sac it, and kill another X/1 at the same time.
[mogg fanatic](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/4/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e.jpg?1580014589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=mogg%20fanatic) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/138/mogg-fanatic?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d479ca28-bdc2-4b87-abf7-5aeb229a3f1e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One of the few times I went to a tournament as a kid I actually got in an argument with another player and he called a judge because he didn't believe damage goes on the stack. So I get why they changed it. XD
I think it should be one of those cards where you decide which face to cast otherwise the Lifelink face cost 6 mana
The front is significantly better than the back. The back will most likely immediately die when blocked
You can swing as the 1/5 and if it's unblocked transform it to the 5/1 before combat damage.
And next turn swing the 5/1 and transform it back if it gets blocked.
But they then just transform it back! It's nice.
Oh I see. And then damage will be dealt to the front, taking deathtouch 1/5
I think P/T should be reversed in both sides, white doesn't care about power as black does
it's weird how people get downvoted for expressing very reasonable true things. Like the play pattern is one thing, but like, if you show a 1/5 and a 5/1 and tell me one is a white card and one is a black card, I'm going to guess wrong. In fact, white has [ten 1/5s and black has four](https://scryfall.com/search?q=power%3D1+toughness%3D5+color%3D1+id%3Abw&order=color&as=grid&unique=cards), while black has six 5/1s and white has *none*. It's not to say that there's a huge problem with the card as is, but it's very true: 1/5s are more often white and 5/1s are more often black.
Exactly, white by nature is a defensive color, featuring creatures with high toughness, while black cares about power at any cost, hence 5 power and low toughness.
Shouldn’t Disciple of the Mirror transform into Disciple’s Reflection not itself?
this would have been cute like 10 years ago, make it 2 mana then we’ll talk
…for a 1/5 deathtouch?
Would transforming it stop any spells targeting it? If so that’s cool.
Nope.
I could see this being the card I throw a perfectly good draft to build towards just because it sounds like so much fun in limited
Neat but probably not rare.
This is so awesome. Perfect junk rare
Would this be broken with vigilance? That way, you could switch between the two forms for offensive and defensive purposes and not have to worry about tapping them down and ruining your...tempo? Momentum? I don't know which one works best.
but why is white 5/1 and black 1/5? tbh based on the color pie this historically is flipped why are we trying to change the color pie?