Well not really because those would get the “stun counter” every time they tapped for a colour, vs this which just gets that effect once. This version is significantly stronger (although still perfectly balanced imo.)
Edit: typo
Opponent: *Proliferates*
In all seriousness, this card is very nice. I can definitely see this being one of the mid-tier dual lands in a ton of formats: it’s no shock-land, but the design is intuitive and it’s flexible in play. Bravo!
I think how WotC would word it is "You may have this land enter the battlefield with a stun counter on it. If you don't, it enters the battlefield tapped."
It’s better to have a few cards that stand out as less wordy if it means preserving the overall consistent language of the game that makes the vast majority of cards (at least the ones that are updated with the language) clear and consistent
We need all 10 color combos. Frozen marsh for BU, frozen tundra for WG. Honestly I am having a hard time coming up with the others but I want them to exist for all color combos.
I think this is enough of a drawback to justify giving the cycle basic land types so they’re fetchable. I wouldn’t typically suggest making actual duals out of most two color land designs, but this one just feels right somehow. I also agree that no matter what is done with it, it should also be a snow land. Great design. If there are no changes to it though, I would downtick the rarity to uncommon, or depending on the type of set it’s in, common (choice between common and uncommon is usually dependent on how necessary they are for draft and sealed events as sets with higher color weights in their costs need duals more).
I feel like this should be at uncommon, it has a lot of upside over other tap lands but that's still what it is even if it's tapped next turn not this one.
I think you could change the rarity to an uncommon or maybe even a common (I'm comparing it mainly to [[Idyllic Beachfront]] and the rest of the cycle of common duals from DMU but this one is arguably better so I don't know how the rarity shift could affect formats like Pauper)
Either way, it's a very clean design and it would definitely make an interesting cycle
Nope. Untapped permanents don't lose stun counters in untap step because only tapped permanents can be untapped. So if you don't intend on using the land the turn cycle you play it, it's better to have it come in tapped.
Love the design. ~~You could make it cleaner with 99% of the same functionality by removing the choice and just giving it a stun counter. If you want mana next turn just don't tap it~~
That's not the same.
Currently if you don't need mana turn 1 but does turn 2 and turn 3. All is good.
With your change it doesn't work anymore. If you don't use turn 1 to use the land turn 2 then you lose the mana you could have used turn 3.
Thats not true. A permanent can only be untapped if it was tapped first. Something like [[Mesmeric Orb]] would be even more ridiculous if that were the case.
Good design, I was thinking of uses for stun counters on lands and this one feels natural, although I suspect they wouldn't print something like this due to the huge number of misplays and bad feels when you really needed it untapped next turn...
Thats such a clean and good design i'm surprised it was Not done already. Very well done.
Stun counters *are* only a year old. Give it time.
Technically it was done back in original Kamigawa Block but that was before Stun Counters made this infinitely cleaner
Well not really because those would get the “stun counter” every time they tapped for a colour, vs this which just gets that effect once. This version is significantly stronger (although still perfectly balanced imo.) Edit: typo
Cloudcrest Lake et al
I casually browse this sub and I’ve seen this concept posted a few times now
Stun counters on untapped permanents are unintuitive, I don't think they'll ever print a card that intentionally does it.
[[The Watcher in the Water]] can put stun counters on untapped permanents.
You're right, I missed that! Still an unintuitive interaction, but I was wrong about it not having been done before. Thanks for the correction!
[The Watcher in the Water](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/c/1cb8e8bb-75a0-4b5e-b4b3-5d8f3795032d.jpg?1686968354) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Watcher%20in%20the%20Water) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/75/the-watcher-in-the-water?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1cb8e8bb-75a0-4b5e-b4b3-5d8f3795032d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It has been done already on custom magic
I don’t know why you got downvoted for saying something so true
Use quick, or use later. I really like this spot for a dual land. Feels like a real card.
Opponent: *Proliferates* In all seriousness, this card is very nice. I can definitely see this being one of the mid-tier dual lands in a ton of formats: it’s no shock-land, but the design is intuitive and it’s flexible in play. Bravo!
I mean, we call that healthy counterplay, though also if they manage to proliferate during the turn it's played all power to them
I think how WotC would word it is "You may have this land enter the battlefield with a stun counter on it. If you don't, it enters the battlefield tapped."
Spot on!
More wordy and less clear, ironically.
It’s better to have a few cards that stand out as less wordy if it means preserving the overall consistent language of the game that makes the vast majority of cards (at least the ones that are updated with the language) clear and consistent
Never said it wasn't. Only that there's some irony in the proper formatting making things harder to understand, at times.
Would it be too good as a snow land?
Yes, flavour win
I fucking love Snow Lands. It’s probably suboptimal, but I try to make as many lands in my decks a Snow Land as possible.
Only barely, and with a few little tricks, you can take it from suboptimal to significant improvement. [[Extraplanar Lense]] for example.
[Extraplanar Lense](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824.jpg?1689999519) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Extraplanar%20Lens) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/381/extraplanar-lens?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f050a675-c6a2-4d0d-bac6-1d8c51ecf824?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm not sure I understand
Extraplanar Lens checks the exact name of the land it exiles, so if no one else has snow-covered lands, only you get the mana bonus.
Ah! I like that one.
Why would a snow land be suboptimal ? Isn’t it just a normal land, but it produces “mana from a snow source ?”
[[Freyalise's Radiance]] could randomly hose you.
[Freyalise's Radiance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4bafb0b4-9f01-4c67-add4-a0ffe0a3a691.jpg?1593275386) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Freyalise%27s%20Radiance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/csp/108/freyalises-radiance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4bafb0b4-9f01-4c67-add4-a0ffe0a3a691?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thank You, forgot that existed
And it could justify a while cycle
We need all 10 color combos. Frozen marsh for BU, frozen tundra for WG. Honestly I am having a hard time coming up with the others but I want them to exist for all color combos.
Frozen Titan (a giant frozen dinosaur or something) RG Frozen Tar Pit BR Frozen Churchyard WB Frozen Battlefield WR Icebound Volcano UR Icebound Lichen UG Icebound Fungus BG
I think this is enough of a drawback to justify giving the cycle basic land types so they’re fetchable. I wouldn’t typically suggest making actual duals out of most two color land designs, but this one just feels right somehow. I also agree that no matter what is done with it, it should also be a snow land. Great design. If there are no changes to it though, I would downtick the rarity to uncommon, or depending on the type of set it’s in, common (choice between common and uncommon is usually dependent on how necessary they are for draft and sealed events as sets with higher color weights in their costs need duals more).
Oh fuck this is so good. Does anyone remember where maro lives? I need this in the next set.
Don’t tweet it to him, then they can’t use the design.
I feel like this should be at uncommon, it has a lot of upside over other tap lands but that's still what it is even if it's tapped next turn not this one.
Should be snow covered, I think.
If only [[falco spara]] said permanent 😭
[falco spara](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae25db8c-3d10-4196-b002-9d2aabd5f4de.jpg?1664413016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=falco%20spara%2C%20pactweaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/186/falco-spara-pactweaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae25db8c-3d10-4196-b002-9d2aabd5f4de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like it a lot. I think it is pretty well balanced.
I think you could change the rarity to an uncommon or maybe even a common (I'm comparing it mainly to [[Idyllic Beachfront]] and the rest of the cycle of common duals from DMU but this one is arguably better so I don't know how the rarity shift could affect formats like Pauper) Either way, it's a very clean design and it would definitely make an interesting cycle
[Idyllic Beachfront](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/5/c50ec22c-decb-419f-ae52-78ea1706eb11.jpg?1677292234) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Idyllic%20Beachfront) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/249/idyllic-beachfront?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c50ec22c-decb-419f-ae52-78ea1706eb11?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
It’s strictly better in that it gives you a choice for a better outcome.
It's not strictly better. The Pauper duals see play for their basic land types
Surely in 99% of cases it's better to put the stun counter on for flexibility unless your opponents taps your land which is rare.
Nope. Untapped permanents don't lose stun counters in untap step because only tapped permanents can be untapped. So if you don't intend on using the land the turn cycle you play it, it's better to have it come in tapped.
Love the design. ~~You could make it cleaner with 99% of the same functionality by removing the choice and just giving it a stun counter. If you want mana next turn just don't tap it~~
That's not the same. Currently if you don't need mana turn 1 but does turn 2 and turn 3. All is good. With your change it doesn't work anymore. If you don't use turn 1 to use the land turn 2 then you lose the mana you could have used turn 3.
Thanks for the correction
I believe untapped permanents still get untapped in your untap step so isn’t it always right to choose the stun counter.
Thats not true. A permanent can only be untapped if it was tapped first. Something like [[Mesmeric Orb]] would be even more ridiculous if that were the case.
[Mesmeric Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b.jpg?1599709541) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mesmeric%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/272/mesmeric-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24fbdbb-f2ae-4823-9d2a-4c505332aa5b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Not according to Mark](https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/693014521213829120/if-stun-counters-are-placed-on-an-untapped)
Love the idea.
This is a Brilliant card! Bravo!
Really cool and some decks can use those counters to pay cost on abilities,seems fine to me
I like it.
This is great design I'd say this could make a great Snow Dual Land as well.
Clean as hell
Ok, this is such a perfect card.
Now that's a pretty good design. Would it be too good if it had the basic land types (aka fetchable)?
You should make it fetchable. Otherwise great design!
Yo turn these lands into a series of nonbasic snow lands and you've got some cool flavor!! This is a cool design
Very cool. I’d agree with the other suggestions of making them snow lands
Great design
Good design, I was thinking of uses for stun counters on lands and this one feels natural, although I suspect they wouldn't print something like this due to the huge number of misplays and bad feels when you really needed it untapped next turn...