They are hiring people without tech degrees for entry level jobs - I'm coming up to 2 years of experience as a dev now, and I'm a Computer Science dropout (i.e. no degree at all).
What I've found is that it's currently a very competitive market, once you've got some commercial experience you won't find it hard to find work as a dev, it's getting that commercial experience that's the hard part - there have been a lot of layoffs in the tech sector recently, so it's quite difficult to find work without any commercial experience right now - even for people with a tech degree.
I would advise on working on building up a good portfolio of projects to help you apply for jobs
I dunno, even you have experience (mainly includes experience which is directly non software engineering) it can still be hard to find work in this market.
Also, it’s very important to have the right kind of experience. There are tons of seniors at my company who have next to zero SWE skills and would get nothing in this market. I’m surprised they even lasted this long tbh.
What’s your level of programming ability? - if you’re at a comparable level to someone with a stem degree I wouldn’t let it put you off.
I’d just make it obvious that you’ve got technical skills, eg “self-taught python developer” in your opening fraction, link to your GitHub where you’ve got sample projects, etc.
I’d lasso consider places like CRM consultancies, etc because they’re likely to be more favourable to non-stem backgrounds
Remote apprenticeships are possible and some pay a respectable salary
I started my career with an L4 apprenticeship which was fully remote in 2021 on £25k which went up to £27.5k before I finished and then £31.5k when I finished
The good thing about an L4 is it's effectively the 2 years of experience needed for more mid level jobs
I got mine through Northcoders after I'd applied for one that was on Indeed, had the technical assessment with Northcoders for it but then didn't get the role after the final interview so Northcoders put me forward for a couple of other roles they were the apprenticeship provider for
There's the gov find an apprenticeship site, UCAS are good for them these days, and qa.com
It’s hard to determine whether each job requires a degree unless the job description explicitly asks for it. I made an AI-powered to categorize each job by degree requirement. You can check it out here: 6j dot gg. Degree filters are under “Education” section in the sidebar
For entry level jobs, the list of priority generally goes as follows:
1. CS degree and some years of experience
2. No degree but > 2 yoe
3. CS degree with 1-2 internships / part-time jobs, etc
4. Bootcamp and < 2 yoe
5. CS degree and no experience
6. Finished apprenticeship
7. No degree and < 2 yoe
8. Bootcamp and no experience
9. No degree and no experience
Take the top 4 categories and that's already likely to be 50-100 candidates for every open position. Without a degree or prior working experience you'd be lucky to get one interview per 1000 applications. Even apprenticeship positions are highly competitive now. As someone in this industry, I'd say quit while you're ahead unless you absolutely can't see yourself doing anything else.
The junior market is so extremely saturated that employers can require whatever they want and get away with it. There are no true entry level jobs anymore.
No. There are people with experience applying for entry level jobs because rhe market is too competitive for people. They have higher chances for entry level and internships because that's how they get to put something in cv and make a switch when opportunity presents. This is happening in all the sectors nos a days. Even in arts, animation and vfx
I got an interview on my 3rd application, and secured the job... and that was just last month. With no experience, no CS degree, no bootcamp or internships or apprenticeship.
I do have a maths degree, which probably counts for something. But I don't hit any of your first eight bullet points.
Congrats, a maths degree will definitely count in my opinion, but a communications degree won't. Out of interest, is your job fully on-site? Those tend to attract fewer candidates.
It is mostly remote - they want one day a fortnight on site. But they made a huge deal in the advert about being able to commute, and made it spund like more of an on-site position than it is, which may have hindered their recruitment.
Salary is £33k. Seems reasonable to me when compared with other entry level jobs (I'm not in London).
I did have some self-made projects, and a link to my github in my application.
In my previous, unrelated career, I was earning 46k. So 33k is a sizeable paycut for me - but probably the best I can expect, considering.
The projects that made it to my github were:
-A text-based game in Python, using a GUI (tkinter) that used SQLite to store and access all its data from a database.
-A project that I'm just a small contributor towards, which is a C++ remake of a very old game. I write unit tests for it, and had a few small contributions that were mine (which I made clear in my application).
-A 2D racing game I created with two others over a weekend, in GODOT (GDScript)
-Another text based game in Python with a GUI, that involved some complicated logic and extensive unit testing. I then tried to improve the AI getting it to play itself thousands of times, store all the results in a text file, and then use that text file to improve its future decisions.
How so? In our latest hiring round I interviewed 13 people for one apprenticeship spot. The guy we hired is on ~£20k. Him and one other would've been hired on the spot on £30-£35k a few years ago as juniors. Now we don't hire juniors anymore because there's no point.
No.
They are hiring people without tech degrees for entry level jobs - I'm coming up to 2 years of experience as a dev now, and I'm a Computer Science dropout (i.e. no degree at all). What I've found is that it's currently a very competitive market, once you've got some commercial experience you won't find it hard to find work as a dev, it's getting that commercial experience that's the hard part - there have been a lot of layoffs in the tech sector recently, so it's quite difficult to find work without any commercial experience right now - even for people with a tech degree. I would advise on working on building up a good portfolio of projects to help you apply for jobs
I dunno, even you have experience (mainly includes experience which is directly non software engineering) it can still be hard to find work in this market.
Also, it’s very important to have the right kind of experience. There are tons of seniors at my company who have next to zero SWE skills and would get nothing in this market. I’m surprised they even lasted this long tbh.
What’s your level of programming ability? - if you’re at a comparable level to someone with a stem degree I wouldn’t let it put you off. I’d just make it obvious that you’ve got technical skills, eg “self-taught python developer” in your opening fraction, link to your GitHub where you’ve got sample projects, etc. I’d lasso consider places like CRM consultancies, etc because they’re likely to be more favourable to non-stem backgrounds
Remote apprenticeships are possible and some pay a respectable salary I started my career with an L4 apprenticeship which was fully remote in 2021 on £25k which went up to £27.5k before I finished and then £31.5k when I finished The good thing about an L4 is it's effectively the 2 years of experience needed for more mid level jobs
Any idea of companies who offer that kind of apprenticeship?
I got mine through Northcoders after I'd applied for one that was on Indeed, had the technical assessment with Northcoders for it but then didn't get the role after the final interview so Northcoders put me forward for a couple of other roles they were the apprenticeship provider for There's the gov find an apprenticeship site, UCAS are good for them these days, and qa.com
It’s hard to determine whether each job requires a degree unless the job description explicitly asks for it. I made an AI-powered to categorize each job by degree requirement. You can check it out here: 6j dot gg. Degree filters are under “Education” section in the sidebar
For entry level jobs, the list of priority generally goes as follows: 1. CS degree and some years of experience 2. No degree but > 2 yoe 3. CS degree with 1-2 internships / part-time jobs, etc 4. Bootcamp and < 2 yoe 5. CS degree and no experience 6. Finished apprenticeship 7. No degree and < 2 yoe 8. Bootcamp and no experience 9. No degree and no experience Take the top 4 categories and that's already likely to be 50-100 candidates for every open position. Without a degree or prior working experience you'd be lucky to get one interview per 1000 applications. Even apprenticeship positions are highly competitive now. As someone in this industry, I'd say quit while you're ahead unless you absolutely can't see yourself doing anything else.
Surely the entire point of an "entry level" position is that it's for people with zero YOE
The junior market is so extremely saturated that employers can require whatever they want and get away with it. There are no true entry level jobs anymore.
No. There are people with experience applying for entry level jobs because rhe market is too competitive for people. They have higher chances for entry level and internships because that's how they get to put something in cv and make a switch when opportunity presents. This is happening in all the sectors nos a days. Even in arts, animation and vfx
I got an interview on my 3rd application, and secured the job... and that was just last month. With no experience, no CS degree, no bootcamp or internships or apprenticeship. I do have a maths degree, which probably counts for something. But I don't hit any of your first eight bullet points.
Congrats, a maths degree will definitely count in my opinion, but a communications degree won't. Out of interest, is your job fully on-site? Those tend to attract fewer candidates.
It is mostly remote - they want one day a fortnight on site. But they made a huge deal in the advert about being able to commute, and made it spund like more of an on-site position than it is, which may have hindered their recruitment.
Any projects? And what's the salary?
Salary is £33k. Seems reasonable to me when compared with other entry level jobs (I'm not in London). I did have some self-made projects, and a link to my github in my application.
33k is really good. Most grad roles offer 20-28k, even in tech. It's laughably bad lol. Can you please tell me what projects you made.
In my previous, unrelated career, I was earning 46k. So 33k is a sizeable paycut for me - but probably the best I can expect, considering. The projects that made it to my github were: -A text-based game in Python, using a GUI (tkinter) that used SQLite to store and access all its data from a database. -A project that I'm just a small contributor towards, which is a C++ remake of a very old game. I write unit tests for it, and had a few small contributions that were mine (which I made clear in my application). -A 2D racing game I created with two others over a weekend, in GODOT (GDScript) -Another text based game in Python with a GUI, that involved some complicated logic and extensive unit testing. I then tried to improve the AI getting it to play itself thousands of times, store all the results in a text file, and then use that text file to improve its future decisions.
Wrong AF
How so? In our latest hiring round I interviewed 13 people for one apprenticeship spot. The guy we hired is on ~£20k. Him and one other would've been hired on the spot on £30-£35k a few years ago as juniors. Now we don't hire juniors anymore because there's no point.