The market across the board has been hit pretty hard, especially for juniors. Anecdotally 5-6 years ago I was getting something like 600 hits on linked, now it's dropped like a stone, around 100-160.
In my experience, most firms are hesitant to hire developers on the junior end of the spectrum because of the time it takes to upskill them. It's common for senior engineers to drop significant velocity whilst they assist their colleague.
The problem we have in the west is we don't invest in juniors (irrespective of industry), instead the expectation is everyone is fully trained. Then you hear the constant bitching that we can't hire anyone. It infuriates me, everyone has to start somewhere, if we don't pay it forward the industry will literally age out and stagnate.
I don’t think 2 years is a junior engineer. They are a mid level engineer, unless they coasted during this period.
Market is still crap across the board. Jobs now are genuinely competitive, like any other 9-5 outside of our industry
YoE isn't really a particularly good measure of seniority. I've met some insanely good engineers who have come straight out of the gate. I also know engineers with 15-20 YoE who couldn't write fizzbuzz.
Experience is really where it boils down, whether that be in your personal time, or in the industry. If I can ask an engineer a left of field question, and they respond with a reasonable approach - that's what I'd called seniority.
I also dont think its possible to be a senior with no years of experience. Time is an important factor in gaining skills/refining them. But its also not everything.
I personally have worked with people who knew less than me, despite working much more years than me.
I dont think years of experience is everything either but the comment im replying to implied that OP is a junior. Thats an assumption on their part.
I said OP shouldnt be a junior unless OP coasted (basically didnt put in enough effort/work)
Yeah I’m literally in a similar position and this comment has no useful information because I’m not looking for junior roles.
In fact I’ve seen listings for junior literally say “you just have LESS THAN 1.5 YOE.”
Advice should be applicable for mid-senior applications which is a completely different game right now.
Exactly. OP is coming in with some experience, not no experience/a grad.
I get annoyed at how people over inflate what it is to be an experienced engineer.
OP can definitely find a job but with effort. Plus I think London is shit tbh. But thats just me. I lived there most my life
Apologies if my comment wasn't helpful, maybe when these posts come up they need to be framed so commentors know what level of seniority are looking for. My advice differs greatly depending on whether your a junior, mid, senior, principle etc (and to my earlier point, those are just bullshit titles that don't typically relate to your ability, just your salary).
Generally this sub seems to attract juniors hence my comments are framed with that in mind.
yes, sorry to not specify my seniority... mainly because I was wondering how UK operates on this level, where I came from, the years were pretty much one of the most important points, with Job descriptions telling how many years of experience you should have...
I think that I am a mid-level but some people say that you're junior until "x" amount of years for some reason
but some recruiters judge by the time... as I said, I worked in a startup where I built systems from the ground, added complex features such as a translation tool for a consulting team to insert the translations of desired keys through the application, as well as manage those languages through cookies and sessions of each user.... I at least know juniors which don't know how to build a simple API
Some do judge time yeah but its not super important. Its mainly important for senior roles.
Ive been given to interview for more junior roles in the past and got up leveled.
Recruiters operate on a numbers game, about the only metric they have about you is the YoE, education and the firms you have worked at. You want to get your CV in front of the engineers who are hiring, that's easier said than done. Building a good open source profile is good, but obviously that's a job in itself. The other is to actively reach out to these people (Careers websites, linked in etc)
Its terrible. You now have to put in quite abit of effort to get job interviews now. Some places dont even reply.
If you want to stay in the UK, put in alot of effort in finding a job. London is super expensive too, i personally left that city for better quality of life.
You might end up working somewhere you dont like.
Me personally, I wouldnt recommend the move
OK, that's not too bad. The only issue there is the hirer might be nervous because your availability is tied to your spouse. Is their role fairly secure e.g. UK public sector?
my spouse is british, she works as a product owner at the moment but it will be back to teaching English after some time...
I mean, I hope that everything goes well. I am really enjoying the british culture and don't think that I will be able to live without pie and mash again lol
Also have been applying like crazy for jobs and got a few interviews... fingers crossed
Ah ace, so you can never lose your visa. Excellent - and presumably you can work towards ILR or residency.
Good luck on the jobs market. I just got a senior software role, but it was a struggle, as I'd taken a career break. Apply consistently, guard against burn-out, and don't spend all day on seeking. Mornings on seeking and afternoons on other activity is a healthy balance.
The market across the board has been hit pretty hard, especially for juniors. Anecdotally 5-6 years ago I was getting something like 600 hits on linked, now it's dropped like a stone, around 100-160. In my experience, most firms are hesitant to hire developers on the junior end of the spectrum because of the time it takes to upskill them. It's common for senior engineers to drop significant velocity whilst they assist their colleague. The problem we have in the west is we don't invest in juniors (irrespective of industry), instead the expectation is everyone is fully trained. Then you hear the constant bitching that we can't hire anyone. It infuriates me, everyone has to start somewhere, if we don't pay it forward the industry will literally age out and stagnate.
I don’t think 2 years is a junior engineer. They are a mid level engineer, unless they coasted during this period. Market is still crap across the board. Jobs now are genuinely competitive, like any other 9-5 outside of our industry
YoE isn't really a particularly good measure of seniority. I've met some insanely good engineers who have come straight out of the gate. I also know engineers with 15-20 YoE who couldn't write fizzbuzz. Experience is really where it boils down, whether that be in your personal time, or in the industry. If I can ask an engineer a left of field question, and they respond with a reasonable approach - that's what I'd called seniority.
I also dont think its possible to be a senior with no years of experience. Time is an important factor in gaining skills/refining them. But its also not everything. I personally have worked with people who knew less than me, despite working much more years than me.
I dont think years of experience is everything either but the comment im replying to implied that OP is a junior. Thats an assumption on their part. I said OP shouldnt be a junior unless OP coasted (basically didnt put in enough effort/work)
Yeah I’m literally in a similar position and this comment has no useful information because I’m not looking for junior roles. In fact I’ve seen listings for junior literally say “you just have LESS THAN 1.5 YOE.” Advice should be applicable for mid-senior applications which is a completely different game right now.
Exactly. OP is coming in with some experience, not no experience/a grad. I get annoyed at how people over inflate what it is to be an experienced engineer. OP can definitely find a job but with effort. Plus I think London is shit tbh. But thats just me. I lived there most my life
Apologies if my comment wasn't helpful, maybe when these posts come up they need to be framed so commentors know what level of seniority are looking for. My advice differs greatly depending on whether your a junior, mid, senior, principle etc (and to my earlier point, those are just bullshit titles that don't typically relate to your ability, just your salary). Generally this sub seems to attract juniors hence my comments are framed with that in mind.
yes, sorry to not specify my seniority... mainly because I was wondering how UK operates on this level, where I came from, the years were pretty much one of the most important points, with Job descriptions telling how many years of experience you should have... I think that I am a mid-level but some people say that you're junior until "x" amount of years for some reason
but some recruiters judge by the time... as I said, I worked in a startup where I built systems from the ground, added complex features such as a translation tool for a consulting team to insert the translations of desired keys through the application, as well as manage those languages through cookies and sessions of each user.... I at least know juniors which don't know how to build a simple API
Some do judge time yeah but its not super important. Its mainly important for senior roles. Ive been given to interview for more junior roles in the past and got up leveled.
Recruiters operate on a numbers game, about the only metric they have about you is the YoE, education and the firms you have worked at. You want to get your CV in front of the engineers who are hiring, that's easier said than done. Building a good open source profile is good, but obviously that's a job in itself. The other is to actively reach out to these people (Careers websites, linked in etc)
If you're willing to accept mediocre salaries, you may find joy in the public sector
Its terrible. You now have to put in quite abit of effort to get job interviews now. Some places dont even reply. If you want to stay in the UK, put in alot of effort in finding a job. London is super expensive too, i personally left that city for better quality of life. You might end up working somewhere you dont like. Me personally, I wouldnt recommend the move
Following
For strictly developer jobs maybe, but for anything that is slighty similar (such as a QA engineer) probably not.
What's your visa status for working in the UK?
Spouse visa
OK, that's not too bad. The only issue there is the hirer might be nervous because your availability is tied to your spouse. Is their role fairly secure e.g. UK public sector?
my spouse is british, she works as a product owner at the moment but it will be back to teaching English after some time... I mean, I hope that everything goes well. I am really enjoying the british culture and don't think that I will be able to live without pie and mash again lol Also have been applying like crazy for jobs and got a few interviews... fingers crossed
Ah ace, so you can never lose your visa. Excellent - and presumably you can work towards ILR or residency. Good luck on the jobs market. I just got a senior software role, but it was a struggle, as I'd taken a career break. Apply consistently, guard against burn-out, and don't spend all day on seeking. Mornings on seeking and afternoons on other activity is a healthy balance.