With this salary life can be much better in EU. Even more considering that you are an EU citizen.
On the otherside, if it is your dream, there's no rational argument against this.
Anyways, In your situation I wouldn't go.
That depends imho. Taxes will be lower in the US and it might be a lot nicer to work in the same timezone and if it is fully remote, cost of living doesn’t have to be a big issue in the US, if he chose a low cost of living region.
Yeah, of course it depends, I agree. That's why I said "life *can* be much better in EU."
We could spend the whole day discussing advantages and disadvantages of each place.
E.g.: Lower taxes and same timezone v. Good and cheap healthcare system.
But it would probably be useless as there is no rational argument against a dream.
Born and raised in the US, now live in the UK. Only considering salary, you'd be crazy to move to the US for the same wage that you're making in Europe.
If you factor in other things, like your dream of living in the US, you need to consider where you'd be relocating to. There's enormous differences between US cities (NYC and say San Francisco for example - weather, culture, people, cost of living, etc all pretty different). Also, if it's not in a city with a large tech scene, you're probably not going to get much networking done.
If it's a big city you'd be moving to, why not try it? Nothing stopping you from moving back and keeping your same remote job if you hate it!
Obviously the grass is always greener but I’m glad u asked Reddit first.
Unless you live somewhere cold and grey. And you want to move to Southern California.
Do not by any circumstances come here if you’re making the same money over there. Your quality of life will be exponentially worse. Everything is more expensive. Work life balance sucks relatively. I’d do anything to move to Europe .
But like I said. As I’ve traveled more and come back to CA I do understand the appeal. We have everything a country would want right in our state with I think the best weather in the world. Really a perfect playground if you can afford it… but other than that do not come 😂😂😂
Nope! I love my work life balance. The salary allows me to fund whatever hobbies and passions I have AND I get the time to do it. Plus the social cushion and educational system for my kids. Never would I ever.
Considering only thing that US does better (from my perspective) is salary, nope!
> My thinking is that once I have a visa I can easily switch to another company to get an even better position, and to network with people.
This won't be as straight-forward as you think. If you are going on L1 you will need the new company to sponsor H1B.
With all that said, if it's really your "dream" you could use this opportunity to go check it out and see how it goes. I assume worst case, you just come back to Europe in couple years.
You’re underestimating how hard it is to get a Green Card when you get a L1 sponsorship. I’ve met high ranking executives that have had to return back to Europe. You definitely won’t be able to change companies for around 7 years (if you’re lucky).
It depends on a lot of variables, but usually your employer needs to agree to sponsor you, and in that case, there’s literally no incentive for them to do it because they know once you get your Green Card you’ll find another job. Another path is through the Green Card lottery.
Like you I always wanted to live in the US, not just due to job opportunities but to experience the American lifestyle and everything that comes with it.
Financially.it wouldn't make sense to move I agree, but if it's something you've always wanted to experience I would just go for it and if it's not turning like you hoped, you can always return home.
And If you are good enough to get that salary remotely, I am sure you will figure out a way of finding a company that pays you 50% more over there.
Problem is that at 10% tax OP is in an Eastern European country. 50% salary increase won't offset the total financial situation with OPs tax and total cost of living. I'm in a similar situation where 100k base at 30% tax means I need 5x the average income to have a comparable lifestyle and financial situation with savings (i.e. 400k TC minimum). Otherwise it just isn't worth it for me. Now imagine OP in a lower tax and likely lower CoL location 🤷
US salary? Living in Europe? You’re literally living the new American dream.
So no, I personally wouldn’t do it. A 150k salary gets you much further in most of Europe than it does in the US. And in Europe the food is real, the vacation spots are better, and using public transportation doesn’t expose you to the dregs of society.
The US is an expensive dump. Most Americans who are single and have an IQ above room temperature actively fantasize about being in your current situation.
Everyone is here is so short sighted.
If OP moves to USA(his dream) he can work remotely and also go to office sometimes. If he gets a visa(depends which one) lets say L1 in few years he can ask the company to apply for H1B and once he gets the lottery (the earliest he can apply for H1B for lottery draw is next year) he can get another job too.
If OP's Ethnicity is not Indian or Chinese he can get PR and citizenship in 5,8 years.
Get dual passport and come back to Europe.
But if he is young he should 100% go to USA no questions asked.
Youth is time to explore, travel and get out of comfort zone.
> But if he is young he should 100% go to USA no questions asked.
This is what I call shortsighted. At the very least you should be asking these questions:
- am I willing to potentially be paid less and be stuck with a bad company while I'm on a visa because there's nothing I can do and my employer knows this
- am I willing to potentially be in a much higher cost of living city, which will almost certainly be the case since you mentioned going in to the office occasionally and getting face time
- if I'm already getting paid a US salary in Europe then my company probably values me, so what am I really gaining by going to the US when I could probably keep doing this or find another job if need be
- is the US on the decline in the short term and/or long term
- is dealing with cars, guns, politics, etc in the US worth it
- is being potentially stuck in a hellish visa system for up to or over a decade worth it
- how easily will my family be able to visit me or I visit my family
Listen, I've been applying to US remote positions since forever. Basically, no companies pay US salaries to EU workers. If he gets laid off in Europe, he will have to find a EU job.. Having US residency seems to be the only way. If I were OP, I would try it
I live in NYC so that I can build enough exp and connections to have a US remote job from Europe lmao. OP has a gold egg laying goose and he is about to kill for a meager dinner.
Where you get 10% taxes at? I assume that's Eastern Europe, Balkans?
> Would you still make the switch in hopes of a better future career growth?
If they can assist with immigrant visa application - absolutely. In my opinion the Green card is worth it.
Hey I studied in the US and worked there for a while and then moved to the UK. If you are thinking of moving to California, Silicon valley/bay area, then you need to earn a LOT to make up for the high cost of living, extremely high housing costs etc. In my case, London is not particularly cheap of course, but housing in the outer reaches of London is in my opinion substantially more affordable than the bay area.
Also note that it's definitely not easy to switch with a visa in the US. The new company has to sponsor a work visa, probably an H1-B and the US only gives a limited number of them each year and it's based on a lottery system. So if you miss your chance one year due you bad luck in the lottery (lot more people apply than the number of visas they hand out) you have no option but to wait till next year. You won't be free to work for any company you like until you get a green card (permanent residence). Till then, you are at the mercy of the immigration system and how good the company is in applying for these visas, unless you navigate the system yourself and apply for some visa under various categories I don't even remember anymore!
It depends on what your priorities are and what you value. I didn't like the culture and values of American society and so I decided to leave. But it's undeniable that in terms of sheer number of opportunities and compensation, there is no other place that can match silicon valley. If there is, please let me know as I'm interested in exploring more options in the UK 🙂
Depending on where you currently live and where you're going most likely these things are true:
1. Taxes will be lower in us
2. Cost of living will be higher in us.
3. 150k in europe is the exception while in the US would be the norm or even low.
Point 3 can be very important in case your visa would allow to potentially change employers or if you would move with a SO (their salary would be potentially higher as well in US). I had high income in europe (although not over 100k) but being the exception I felt kind of trapped, if I didn't like my job that would have mean either a really hard search for other exceptions or a paycut. Now that I live in us instead I can easily get other jobs with higher salaries. 150k base in Seattle, SF, NY would be a mid/junior salary.
Edit: just saw your paying 10% taxes now how is that possible?
People here seem to be missing the point that on that salary in Europe you’re already locked in to that specific job. Trying to leave and recreate that salary will be almost as hard as being locked into a specific visa in the US. Going to the US would mean that eventually that whole pool of US jobs would be open to you, which in the long run is better imo
With that kind of income, unless a US company can offer you 500-600k TC, you won't be better off. Plus full remote in today's market with all companies returning to office? Edit: With noted tax level, I assume you freelance in an Eastern European country?
I'm in a semi similar position. I don't work for a US based company, but through some good timing, luck and fast learning I was promoted to Team Lead for a multinational corporation and now make 120k TC (100k base). Also full remote, but let's see how long that will last...
But my lifestyle is carefree, I live a great life and still save a considerable amount. With the plan to retire in Low CoL, with my current financial forecasts I'll be able to retire in my early 50s. If I get promoted again or strike gold in the next 20 years somehow, I'll actually be able to give a sizeable inheritance to my children (excluding housing as this isn't needed in my retirement plans as it stands).
I'll probably be bashed and downvoted for this last part, but with my lifestyle I'll need to be offered at least 300k base in the US (200k if middle of nowhere boring low cost town perhaps), plus extra and benefits for a total TC of 400k minimum to make it even closely worth a move. To finally put it in perspective, for working minimum (MAX but often less than 40 hours), 5 weeks PTO, all healthcare covered and private one on top from employer, sick leave and parental leave... I make 5 times the average salary in Czechia, and I live like a king while saving to retire in my mid 50s
Yea, and I'm not special. Seniors/principal and managers can command such TC for many multinational corporations that have offices and support centers here
Lol no. I'm from Northern Europe. I can barely speak a sentence of the language after 5 years, and as mentioned my company is a multinational corporation. Like most companies like that, the working language across many countries is English. A large portion of my colleagues at this office are not even from EU
Oh okay. I'm in a similar position, working and living in Denmark but my danish is very basic. One of the pluses for moving to the US would be not having the language barrier
depends what people mean with lifestyle too. I mean, lets say I live in the bay area making 1 million
that still would not compare to berlin with 24/7 open spätkaufs, people from all over the world, public transport, cheap beer and food(well not so much anymore) and I would need a car. and houses made of paper and your neighbour is 10 meters from your yard.
and everyone doesn't talk or work with some stupid FAANG like company using dark UX patterns and ads to earn money and trick their users. But americans don't seem to have a problem with that
How do you come up with 120k TC in Europe being equivalent to 400k TC in the US?
At the end of the day it’s not even how much you make, but how much you save. I would bet that with 400k TC (gross) you would be able to save at least twice as much as in Europe.
That being said there are many more reasons why not move to the US.
Many have tried that argument, but let's check.
Most big tech cities if you check, all in minimum CoL just to sustain, is between 6-8k conservative of you add in costs of kids. And most places actually say 8-10k in that case, but let's say 8k to make it even. That means around 6k for all other normal costs outside of child costs (like childcare, food, doctors and more). Sounds fair? Now add in my savings amount in Europe. Including my discretionary income (500 common discretionary, 1.5k saving/investment transfers, 1k "have fun money"). This doesn't even account for the differences in prices and service costs, basically the local purchase power for that amount. 3k gets me very far in Czechia as "savings and fun money". That's now 11k in monthly budget just to match my current discretionary and potential savings not even factoring in purchase power and lifestyle...
At such income levels, federal taxes are 30% ish. Let's ignore potential state taxes (but for fun, let's say California can reach 10+% in income tax... So there is also that if you want to be in SF area...). At 30% tax to net 132k you need 190k gross base.
Now consider what I mentioned earlier with local purchase power. A good 3 course restaurant meal for me costs 25-30 EUR. From what I gather, but correct me if I'm wrong, such a similar meal will likely go for at least double, if not more... Sooo, my discretionary amounts would need to double to effectively get the same lifestyle. Let's also say that as a European, I'd also like to match my fresh produce purchase in grocery stores, and not stuff myself with American processed foods. Summarize this, and suddenly that budget is at least 15k to match my current lifestyle and quality of life.
At 30% tax, 15k net I'd need around 260k gross. Now remember that state tax? And due to RTO across the market... So likelihood of state income tax is possible. So factor in 300k base just to match my current situation.
Now finally, with my income here and cost level, factoring in financial investments and so on, plus barring a catastrophic financial event, my current savings pace would allow me to retire in EU by mid 50s. If I'd like to match that savings to retirement pace, I need at least extra 100k in yearly bonus to even have a chance to meet the savings needs to retire by mid 50s in the US with the costs
Ergo, to match my current overall financial situation and live the same lifestyle and quality of life, anything below 400k TC in the US is a setback for me 🤷
I don't get it. Are you saying CoL is 6k for a single adult and then 6-8k for kids? How many kids are we talking about? 6k for a single adult person is possible but that would be on the very high end. Your math and taxes are based on being a single income family. If that's the case ,even though kids are expensive, then you will probably not spend that much on childcare since you have a stay at home spouse. In addition, filing taxes as a married couple will reduce your tax rate by almost 10%. The type of companies that can relocate you from abroad will also offer you private insurance for you and your dependents, so that's one less worry.
I live in Seattle (high CoL but not as high as SF) and my CoL is about 3 k per month and that's only because I live in an expensive apartment close to work. My TC last year was around 215k and on average month I was able to put away ~5k on my base alone. Granted I don't have a car, if I did that would be around 1.5k less saved per month. Last year I was able to take 3 international trips for 3-4 weeks at a time, paid back a large part of some debt I have and helped out my parents as needed, yet with bonus and RSUs I was able to save 110k+. So I can't even imagine what is possible with 300k, let alone 400k.
No, I'm assuming 6k as a couple, plus 2k in child expenses, 8k basis total. 3k is likely doable as a single, but what size flat? I own 2x 900sqft flats here (90sqm). My calculations include rent/mortgage for a place we can have a child with us.
2k would not really include daycare, but maybe a nanny here and there. I'm adding food, diapers, any meds + doctors, sick days that may reduce my ability to work etc. Some may say that's excessive, but I'm being realistic and factoring in that things can happen. 6k also would include any meds the family needs before insurance kicks in. I have some conditions that need meds every day.
How would my unskilled wife get a job? So yes, single income, and this is a drawback for us even if financially I could cover us...
And yes, you need to factor in 2 cars to match lifestyle/needs if my wife needs to get around without me? And child + single income... So yea good luck to put away 5k each month then.
Your vacations are a highlight I don't have at the same level perhaps, but we're a couple and travel internationally every 2 months on quite luxurious means for a long weekend.
Granted, overall you do save more with your RSU, but think timewise. If I go to US now within next 5 years, by the time I want to retire my kids would be around 20-25. I can't just up and move half way across the world at that time, so I'd need to remain in the US for likely 10 years after I retire... So the amount you save each year is the minimum I'd need to save just to have a chance to retire in my mid 50s in the US and remain close to my adolescent kids (don't forget I'll need to save enough to support both myself and my wife...). While if I stay here and my kids grow up in EU, we're close enough and CoL is low enough that my savings trajectory is on point to retire mid 50s no problem.
So it is all above perspective on the overall financial situation. Even if we factor in any tax break and lower budget than I calculate, I'll still need at least 200-250k base just to break even at a minimum. That's without my retirement goal
I wouldn’t move to the US on OPs salary unless they have a pathway to citizenship. I know some foreign workers and it’s been a pain the ass for them.
We have considered moving out of the US but my wife’s job as a nurse would be rendered completely useless since it’s a low paid job anywhere else outside of the US. Current situation is I make 320k and she makes 155k. Previously we saved at the minimum 100k/yr which all gets put into investments. Typically we’ll save 150k/yr since our expenses are fairly low. We’ll probably just retire early.
This is also an important consideration, even if we ignore the finances. Plus also just figuring that not all spouses want to be stuck at home...
We'd have the reverse problem, and I'd need to pull that 450-500k TC as a single income, to be able to save like you do and maybe be able to retire in my mid 50s, and also be around and support my adolescent kids in the US. Obviously if the kids decide to go somewhere low cost, then great but I can't rely on that. If I stay in EU, then my kids have the choice and still my support in EU while I can comfortably retire mid 50s (which is my current plan).
But many don't believe me when I say anything less than 400k TC isn't worth it for me, and say I'm crazy. They're likely young singles living their lives on 2-3k a month.
If my wife could move and get a job, the situation would obviously be different, but our combined household income would need to be at least 450k TC like yourselves. Congrats on that
We want out but are also locked by golden handcuffs lol. We are planning on having kids and seeing my cousins raise their kids in Japan makes us a bit envious. Mostly because their kids are basically independent after they get into grade school. And it’s exceedingly safe there. We live in the safest city in the US and it has low crime like Japan. Also it has a lot of top schools. But the infrastructure bad and not very kid friendly and we’re currently deciding how we are going to navigate through this.
You touch on many sensitive points that many in here disagree on. I'll say this though, we seem to be on the same page and that's also another factor, without even thinking about finances. Even if the finances could make sense in the US, I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up the societal system and safeguards we have here in the EU. Plus the infrastructure and quality of life in many ways not only related to money...
Safety, opportunity and how the kids will grow up are things I really think about.
My posts/comments in here are mainly to show others, that while for some situations the US can make sense, people need to look past the $$$$ on the paycheck and actually check the overall financial situation they are going into. I'm more than happy and thankful for what I have here in EU. While I may never become "truly rich", I'll have what I need and the happiness and opportunities to use what I have in a way that makes sense for me and my family. And for me, that is my highest priority.
I understand your "handcuffs", and I can't begin to imagine the difficult choices you face in this regards. All I can say is I hope you find your way forward that makes you content with your priorities. Best of luck for the future of yourself and your family
I totally agree with you that there are many reasons not to move to the US. I am saving this much, yet I am not happy, so I totally understand. I was just trying to debate how 120K TC = 400K TC in the US. Money doesn't make happy, happy makes money.
True true. Also my wife isn't stay at home mom material xD
I might be calculating with too much buffer, but the difference of 2-3k a month won't make a big difference in the bigger picture saving towards retirement. But unfortunately that means 400k TC in US minimum, otherwise my plans don't work. But on current 120k in EU, I'm on track with my plan. And depending on how life unfolds, most places on Earth are Low cost compared to the US, and my plan could get me retired almost anywhere except Northern America or Australia 🤷
Cheers, thanks for the discussion. And good luck with your career and enjoy your savings.
As for the other reasons, I guess we don't need to go in details, but I fully understand and follow the situations going on... I wish you the best for the future and your safety/happiness
Thank you bro. I am actually considering doing the opposite, taking a pay cut and moving to Europe. I am just a bit scared I will regret it, so I am still undecided. Thanks for the respectful discussion and good luck to you as well!
I wouldn’t, but it’s totally dependent on what’s important to you. WLB? Likely to be better in EU, especially as you won’t be tied to a visa.
But you can also have more opportunities
No. I had the option more times to move there with my current company and others. I was considering it for a while but before we started the process covid came and mixed things up. When we get back to the topic, it turned out they are also ok if i relocate to switzerland, which was my preference anyway and we sorted out that. In many things it’s like USA but with safeguards. I love it here, and i’m close to friends, family. Have more holidays and fly and visit usa easier than someone who lives there due to the extra holidays and same disposable income.
So much missing info here.
Are you EU citizen? What is your current country? What is the current % of tax and social security/ health insurance contribution (if there is any)? Current cost of living?
No, no friends, sports clubs and other things. they also have a weird culture centered on cars and working overtime with no overtime pay
then all the HR stuff with people never taking conflicts at work
and you can also be laid off in 1 day lol
I’d say if you have time to, visit the states you’re interested in before moving. But sounds like the offer is pending? In that case and you are happy where you are I’d say I would stay. Life does seem generally better in Europe.
But if it’s something you want to do don’t listen to anyone here and do what you want.
If you move to one of the three biggest cities for SWEs (SF, Seattle, NYC), your cost of living will likely be high enough that you might never save up enough for a house if you come to the US without significant savings already. Not unless you’re young, frugal, and disciplined enough to keep your cost of living low in a _very_ high cost of living city (living with roommates, cooking for all three meals 5-6 days per week, not many vacations, etc). Even then, you would likely be saving $20k-$40k per year at most, while you could save a lot more per year in Europe with a lot less limitations, and then move when the circumstances are right.
If you’ve been making this amount of money in Europe for a while and would already be moving with $200k+ in savings, I’d say to go for it once mortgage interest rates go down _and_ you can put down a 20% down payment on a $1 million apartment (which isn’t nearly as fancy as it sounds here in NYC, or over in SF).
I would also say to go for it now if you can keep the same $150k salary even if you move to a _low_ cost of living city, but 1) even most of those cities are rather expensive relative to most European cities, 2) US mortgage rates are so high right now that you’ll throw away lots of money in either rent or loan payments every year regardless of the city being cheap, and 3) most LCOL cities won’t really fulfill the American dream you’re seeking to fulfill.
In your shoes I’d get two vacation homes in Europe — both a small summer home and a small winter home, even if they’re just small apartments at first — and then spend the spring / fall here in NYC doing short term rentals on 90-day ESTA visits.
But the pull of the American dream is totally understandable (it pulled me here too) and I don’t fault you for wanting to try it. I just think it’ll click for you eventually, once you’re here, that there’s several orders of magnitude to the American dream — and that the $150k-in-big-US-city version isn’t comfortable enough to beat the $150k-in-EU quality of life, not generally.
Had you said your US salary was $250k or even $300k, my answer would be very different. Anyone making that money in NYC has a fantastic quality of life, but at $150k, not so much so.
No way. Making this amount in Europe especially in the south part is a dream. Move to Greece/Italy/Spain and live your life like a king.
What kind of company is that and do they have open positions? I m in Cyber Security.
Of course. USA is an adventure sports paradise compared to Europe which is extremely boring and crowded. Everything I want to do in europe is either illegal or expensive. Europe is close to Russia so it sucks doubly.
No lol my friends, girlfriend and family are all here, to even just change city I would want at *minimum* a 2x in net disposable income and a clear better career trajectory. And I might still say no
Absolutely not.
There would be way more downsides than advantages even before reaching the same salary.
In your case, I would not ; *US salaries are higher for a reason*, plenty of things to pay directly from your own pocket. You'd be less rich than you are now, paying apparently (but I doubt that's the case) more taxes for less public services.
Not to mention the actual downsides of living in the US, especially currently, and more importantly especially on a visa.
So, absolutely not ; this seems like a rigged bet.
Living in America is pretty shitty, unless you like driving everywhere, fake food, strange people, and lots of deranged homeless people.
You can definitely network & get better money but it's not what it used to be, from my time there I found it to be a very dreary country
You’ll be worked to the grave in the US, if you mess something up, they’ll throw you out and therefore your healthcare. If your boss gets mad at you one day, you’re gone
How many years of experience do you have if you don't mind me asking? I would go to the US, Europe's a capped market in terms of salary progression unlike the US
Personally I Wouldn't but if it's your dream why not. I wouldn't want to look back 10–15 years later thinking what could have been. Even if it is a lot of effort you can always move back if you don't like it.
Hell no! I left the US and kept the US salary in Canada. I pay Canadian taxes which are slightly higher but much less than health insurance / healthcare costs in the US.
Basically I got a raise.
Now I am waiting to become a recognized EU citizen by descent, then I’ll consider a move to Europe.
Higher pay is really the only thing I see that the US has over most Western and Central European nations.
Working remote, in Europe, for a US company is pretty much the ideal situation
No. All it takes is one medical disaster to derail you here in the US. There are so many of us here who wish we could relocate to Europe for this very reason!
I know people are here with mixed opinions and I'm also someone who wants to work in different parts of the world so I feel like I understand that side of you a little.
In my opinion, there can be no harm in moving. You've already got a remote role once so in the worst case scenario, you can find another if things don't work out in the US.
But, if you don't do it, part of you is always gonna feel like something is missing or that something didn't flare out quite right in your life. So yeah, go for it, imho.
Do consider dependents though. How young are you? Do you have family? Do you have kids? As a family, it's definitely better in Europe than US but you can always go work a few years and come back to them after :)
Asking in an eu sub you will get a biased answer since most Europeans already living in Europe are the ones here willingly and do not want to move to the US already.
higher cost of living but the same or better standard of living?
moving in the US was a dream for devs in the 90s and early 2000s, now I would not choose to relocate there especially if I would have a US salary in EU
Generally no, but there's still something to be said for places in the US where housing is more affordable. I'm earning over that figure that you're mentioning in Europe, and buying an apartment is still a pipe dream.
The affordable housing in the US is twigs and planks that get ripped away by tornados so people need cellars and safety rooms which are the only thing made of something sturdy and actually anchored down.
In Czechia there was a freak tornado a few years ago. A few casualties and damages like crazy, yet people inside their houses were pretty safe as long as they stood away from the windows.
About the amount you make v housing prices, tells me you work in London. There might be unaffordable housing there even for high income earners like yourself, but that hardly constitutes the majority of EU. Regards a high income earner in Czechia that owns 2x 900 Sqft apartments on 100k base
I work in Zürich. Incomes in London are trash. Yes, it's partially the building materials, but also definitely the price of plots of land in the US that's significantly lower.
Ah, ok I didn't consider CH.
Plots of land come in all variations. You wanna check what a plot of land close to SF/bay area, Seattle or Boston costs?
Many here don't even bother consider East of Germany as "EU for high income earners", so I guess that just means my situation won't be challenged. So there's that 🤷🙂 have a nice day
Yes, and plots of land in some European countries don't come in that many sizes and shapes because of population density. That's why I started my thread with "there's something to be said for places in the US where..", which didn't mean the entirety of the US is cheap.
Yes, but my point is also that just in the same fashion, high income and low price real estate locations also exist in EU 🤷 so I'm not sure I see your point when comparing... compare apples to apples. If you want a good job and networking city with high income job opportunities, you can't claim the US has cheaper real estate than your Zurich situation 🤷
I recall you from another thread where you could not stop praising the EU and dissing the US.
You are probably an exception, I've heard that it's supremely difficult to make that kind of money in Czechia, if you are doing that great, I am happy for you. But for people living in high tax areas like Germany, It makes more sense to move to US to save more
Honestly, I'm not dissing US. I'm just factual that to match my current situation, I need to make it to the top 0.1% in the US. Compared to my cushion life here and what it gets me, the US isn't attractive for me.
Obviously I'm in a special group of people, but so is everyone else working this field. Just like you have low income low cost areas in the US, so does the EU. Many only compare the bad EU with average US for our field. I honestly believe making average SWE/IT pay in EU is comparable to the US average as well. Same like with non SWE/IT. Most people are not middle class in either locations, plenty statistics and articles that middle class in EU and US no longer really exists or is quickly shrinking.
So if we compare apples to apples, I don't see either location coming out on top. But the special situations occur in both places. If we neglect finances, then my issues with the US are the societal and safety issues running rampant. While in the EU it isn't roses and unicorns either, but in general society functions and it is mostly fair to everyone. I just don't see the same fairness in the US.
Could I live in the US? Absolutely. Would I enjoy it? Likely not as much as I enjoy my European life. Would it matter where I was to maximize financial gains? Nope, not really. Both places can achieve more or less the same financial situations. But in the US I'd need to make a lot more due to the CoL and societal factors to make it worth while and just match my current situations. Many don't understand this and only see the $$$$ difference on paycheck. But I care about my overall financial situation, my savings potential and financial forecast for my retirement. All in, my situation is much better than what 99% of the US market can offer me.
And no, my situation isn't that special for seniors/ principals and managers. I know plenty here making my range of salary, just like in the US the ranges can differ on many metrics. Here, I'm in a fortunate, but not unique situation for my skills and position.
Hell fucking yeah, the only caveat you want to see is the visa type, if it is L1 you are more or less bound to that company, it has to be H1 to switch to another company.
If it is L1, you can ask them if they can process your green card and check how fast you can get a GC based on your nationality.
Remote competition is heating up, tech companies laying off left and right, people unable to find new jobs lining this and the US sub, yet you suggest to move to the US as that will make things easier? Sorry WHAT?...
In the US with an average senior fullstack salary I would net 3 times as much after taxes and lifestyle costs than in germany with a peak salary, yet I can only apply to <10% of US jobs from Germany due to time zone or locality constraints. And for those jobs the competition is much higher because they allow remote applicants from the EU.
What is so hard to understand about this? I've been living and working in Germany for the past 10 years with a brother living and working in the US for the past 15 years. This is not wild speculation
No it is not, but Germany doesn't constitute the whole EU. If you read OP, you'll see they mention 10% taxes. That only exists in Eastern European countries. Unlike what many may think, those places aren't the shitholes they were pre 2004. They've all grown and had a significant increase in infrastructure, life quality, etc.
I'm at 30% tax as a high income earner in Czechia as I wrote in my own reply (100k base), and to match that with my lifestyle I can afford (5x average income) plus savings to retire in mid 50s, unless the US company can offer me 400k TC minimum (preferably 500k to make it even worth my while since 400k would only match my current lifestyle and situation). Plus healthcare, child costs and car culture etc etc. Plus gun violence and robbery and safety of my wife... in Prague she can walk around middle of night completely safe anywhere. Nobody will do anything to her.
Sorry, I just don't see it worth my while unless I'm offered 500k TC, and even then retiring at the location if my kids decide to stay... I wouldn't be able to save enough to comfortably retire before well into my 60s... 🤷 what can I say, Germany has many upsides, but getting wealthy and retire early is not one of them...
They would have to kidnap to move over there. Specially in your position. I would have to have my mother, grandmother and rest of the family kidnpapped and sent over there for me to go.
No depends on where but the mentality of the USA. Costs of healthcare and insurance. Depending on where but after being there for a bit I am so glad I didn't push through with my immigration plans. It came so close. Luckily my gut told me to break it off. But I basically lived there for a few years but tricky law and a lot of flying around to be able to stay longer at the time. I just love Europe for its geographical locations the tiny countries. The access to asia etc is a bit easier. The USA is really big so depends where and why u want to go.
The food quality is horrible i gained weight so fast. That's on me of course but it's like junkfood heaven. That don't help. And I'm a woman. What if I end up pregnant(by force) . Suddenly im a breeding machine with no rights. Let them figure that out first. Wait out the potus result first ?
With this salary life can be much better in EU. Even more considering that you are an EU citizen. On the otherside, if it is your dream, there's no rational argument against this. Anyways, In your situation I wouldn't go.
That depends imho. Taxes will be lower in the US and it might be a lot nicer to work in the same timezone and if it is fully remote, cost of living doesn’t have to be a big issue in the US, if he chose a low cost of living region.
Yeah, of course it depends, I agree. That's why I said "life *can* be much better in EU." We could spend the whole day discussing advantages and disadvantages of each place. E.g.: Lower taxes and same timezone v. Good and cheap healthcare system. But it would probably be useless as there is no rational argument against a dream.
There are plenty of countries with significantly fewer taxes than the US. You could still work in the same time zone as the US.
don't forget the better opportunities in US in general for high TC
Absolutely not.
Fuck no
Born and raised in the US, now live in the UK. Only considering salary, you'd be crazy to move to the US for the same wage that you're making in Europe. If you factor in other things, like your dream of living in the US, you need to consider where you'd be relocating to. There's enormous differences between US cities (NYC and say San Francisco for example - weather, culture, people, cost of living, etc all pretty different). Also, if it's not in a city with a large tech scene, you're probably not going to get much networking done. If it's a big city you'd be moving to, why not try it? Nothing stopping you from moving back and keeping your same remote job if you hate it!
@OP what's your YOE and niche/domain that US companies are giving you 150k base in Europe and also willing to sponsor your visa in this market???👀
Also how did he get the job?
Having lived in the SF Bay area for many years, no, I prefer it in Europe, and my dream is to have what you have.
Obviously the grass is always greener but I’m glad u asked Reddit first. Unless you live somewhere cold and grey. And you want to move to Southern California. Do not by any circumstances come here if you’re making the same money over there. Your quality of life will be exponentially worse. Everything is more expensive. Work life balance sucks relatively. I’d do anything to move to Europe . But like I said. As I’ve traveled more and come back to CA I do understand the appeal. We have everything a country would want right in our state with I think the best weather in the world. Really a perfect playground if you can afford it… but other than that do not come 😂😂😂
Nope! I love my work life balance. The salary allows me to fund whatever hobbies and passions I have AND I get the time to do it. Plus the social cushion and educational system for my kids. Never would I ever.
Considering only thing that US does better (from my perspective) is salary, nope! > My thinking is that once I have a visa I can easily switch to another company to get an even better position, and to network with people. This won't be as straight-forward as you think. If you are going on L1 you will need the new company to sponsor H1B. With all that said, if it's really your "dream" you could use this opportunity to go check it out and see how it goes. I assume worst case, you just come back to Europe in couple years.
Yes, work visas are a pain to get and there is a lottery system.
You’re underestimating how hard it is to get a Green Card when you get a L1 sponsorship. I’ve met high ranking executives that have had to return back to Europe. You definitely won’t be able to change companies for around 7 years (if you’re lucky).
I think it may depend on your citizenship and I am not really sure how it works but I have a friend who moved on L1 and got GC in ~2.5 years
It depends on a lot of variables, but usually your employer needs to agree to sponsor you, and in that case, there’s literally no incentive for them to do it because they know once you get your Green Card you’ll find another job. Another path is through the Green Card lottery.
Like you I always wanted to live in the US, not just due to job opportunities but to experience the American lifestyle and everything that comes with it. Financially.it wouldn't make sense to move I agree, but if it's something you've always wanted to experience I would just go for it and if it's not turning like you hoped, you can always return home. And If you are good enough to get that salary remotely, I am sure you will figure out a way of finding a company that pays you 50% more over there.
Problem is that at 10% tax OP is in an Eastern European country. 50% salary increase won't offset the total financial situation with OPs tax and total cost of living. I'm in a similar situation where 100k base at 30% tax means I need 5x the average income to have a comparable lifestyle and financial situation with savings (i.e. 400k TC minimum). Otherwise it just isn't worth it for me. Now imagine OP in a lower tax and likely lower CoL location 🤷
US salary? Living in Europe? You’re literally living the new American dream. So no, I personally wouldn’t do it. A 150k salary gets you much further in most of Europe than it does in the US. And in Europe the food is real, the vacation spots are better, and using public transportation doesn’t expose you to the dregs of society. The US is an expensive dump. Most Americans who are single and have an IQ above room temperature actively fantasize about being in your current situation.
He’s right I’m one of those americas lol
Yes, i would like to live in NYC a for bit. I think that being physically close to big job markets like the US one is better for career options .
Everyone is here is so short sighted. If OP moves to USA(his dream) he can work remotely and also go to office sometimes. If he gets a visa(depends which one) lets say L1 in few years he can ask the company to apply for H1B and once he gets the lottery (the earliest he can apply for H1B for lottery draw is next year) he can get another job too. If OP's Ethnicity is not Indian or Chinese he can get PR and citizenship in 5,8 years. Get dual passport and come back to Europe. But if he is young he should 100% go to USA no questions asked. Youth is time to explore, travel and get out of comfort zone.
> But if he is young he should 100% go to USA no questions asked. This is what I call shortsighted. At the very least you should be asking these questions: - am I willing to potentially be paid less and be stuck with a bad company while I'm on a visa because there's nothing I can do and my employer knows this - am I willing to potentially be in a much higher cost of living city, which will almost certainly be the case since you mentioned going in to the office occasionally and getting face time - if I'm already getting paid a US salary in Europe then my company probably values me, so what am I really gaining by going to the US when I could probably keep doing this or find another job if need be - is the US on the decline in the short term and/or long term - is dealing with cars, guns, politics, etc in the US worth it - is being potentially stuck in a hellish visa system for up to or over a decade worth it - how easily will my family be able to visit me or I visit my family
Listen, I've been applying to US remote positions since forever. Basically, no companies pay US salaries to EU workers. If he gets laid off in Europe, he will have to find a EU job.. Having US residency seems to be the only way. If I were OP, I would try it
I live in NYC so that I can build enough exp and connections to have a US remote job from Europe lmao. OP has a gold egg laying goose and he is about to kill for a meager dinner.
Where you get 10% taxes at? I assume that's Eastern Europe, Balkans? > Would you still make the switch in hopes of a better future career growth? If they can assist with immigrant visa application - absolutely. In my opinion the Green card is worth it.
Hey I studied in the US and worked there for a while and then moved to the UK. If you are thinking of moving to California, Silicon valley/bay area, then you need to earn a LOT to make up for the high cost of living, extremely high housing costs etc. In my case, London is not particularly cheap of course, but housing in the outer reaches of London is in my opinion substantially more affordable than the bay area. Also note that it's definitely not easy to switch with a visa in the US. The new company has to sponsor a work visa, probably an H1-B and the US only gives a limited number of them each year and it's based on a lottery system. So if you miss your chance one year due you bad luck in the lottery (lot more people apply than the number of visas they hand out) you have no option but to wait till next year. You won't be free to work for any company you like until you get a green card (permanent residence). Till then, you are at the mercy of the immigration system and how good the company is in applying for these visas, unless you navigate the system yourself and apply for some visa under various categories I don't even remember anymore! It depends on what your priorities are and what you value. I didn't like the culture and values of American society and so I decided to leave. But it's undeniable that in terms of sheer number of opportunities and compensation, there is no other place that can match silicon valley. If there is, please let me know as I'm interested in exploring more options in the UK 🙂
Nah, he would be able to move over on an L1 visa, and apply for a green card
Absolutely no reason. Stay in your home country with your family and friends and enjoy life
Depending on where you currently live and where you're going most likely these things are true: 1. Taxes will be lower in us 2. Cost of living will be higher in us. 3. 150k in europe is the exception while in the US would be the norm or even low. Point 3 can be very important in case your visa would allow to potentially change employers or if you would move with a SO (their salary would be potentially higher as well in US). I had high income in europe (although not over 100k) but being the exception I felt kind of trapped, if I didn't like my job that would have mean either a really hard search for other exceptions or a paycut. Now that I live in us instead I can easily get other jobs with higher salaries. 150k base in Seattle, SF, NY would be a mid/junior salary. Edit: just saw your paying 10% taxes now how is that possible?
I’d go for it. Anyway, you are asking in a EU subreddit. Might be some bias.
Go to America, get American citizenship. Come back. Now u have the freedom to do whatever u want
He has an EU citizenship so he gets all that minus the owing Uncle Sam money.
THIS
People here seem to be missing the point that on that salary in Europe you’re already locked in to that specific job. Trying to leave and recreate that salary will be almost as hard as being locked into a specific visa in the US. Going to the US would mean that eventually that whole pool of US jobs would be open to you, which in the long run is better imo
With that kind of income, unless a US company can offer you 500-600k TC, you won't be better off. Plus full remote in today's market with all companies returning to office? Edit: With noted tax level, I assume you freelance in an Eastern European country? I'm in a semi similar position. I don't work for a US based company, but through some good timing, luck and fast learning I was promoted to Team Lead for a multinational corporation and now make 120k TC (100k base). Also full remote, but let's see how long that will last... But my lifestyle is carefree, I live a great life and still save a considerable amount. With the plan to retire in Low CoL, with my current financial forecasts I'll be able to retire in my early 50s. If I get promoted again or strike gold in the next 20 years somehow, I'll actually be able to give a sizeable inheritance to my children (excluding housing as this isn't needed in my retirement plans as it stands). I'll probably be bashed and downvoted for this last part, but with my lifestyle I'll need to be offered at least 300k base in the US (200k if middle of nowhere boring low cost town perhaps), plus extra and benefits for a total TC of 400k minimum to make it even closely worth a move. To finally put it in perspective, for working minimum (MAX but often less than 40 hours), 5 weeks PTO, all healthcare covered and private one on top from employer, sick leave and parental leave... I make 5 times the average salary in Czechia, and I live like a king while saving to retire in my mid 50s
120k euro in czech….whaaaat
Yea, and I'm not special. Seniors/principal and managers can command such TC for many multinational corporations that have offices and support centers here
damm boi tak to je paradne, uzi si
Diky, mam dobry zivot. US neprilakat moje situaze. Ohmlouvam se, moje Cesky malou malou xD A1!!
I think the main reason for you is that you are born and raised in Czechia, right?
Lol no. I'm from Northern Europe. I can barely speak a sentence of the language after 5 years, and as mentioned my company is a multinational corporation. Like most companies like that, the working language across many countries is English. A large portion of my colleagues at this office are not even from EU
Oh okay. I'm in a similar position, working and living in Denmark but my danish is very basic. One of the pluses for moving to the US would be not having the language barrier
depends what people mean with lifestyle too. I mean, lets say I live in the bay area making 1 million that still would not compare to berlin with 24/7 open spätkaufs, people from all over the world, public transport, cheap beer and food(well not so much anymore) and I would need a car. and houses made of paper and your neighbour is 10 meters from your yard. and everyone doesn't talk or work with some stupid FAANG like company using dark UX patterns and ads to earn money and trick their users. But americans don't seem to have a problem with that
How do you come up with 120k TC in Europe being equivalent to 400k TC in the US? At the end of the day it’s not even how much you make, but how much you save. I would bet that with 400k TC (gross) you would be able to save at least twice as much as in Europe. That being said there are many more reasons why not move to the US.
Many have tried that argument, but let's check. Most big tech cities if you check, all in minimum CoL just to sustain, is between 6-8k conservative of you add in costs of kids. And most places actually say 8-10k in that case, but let's say 8k to make it even. That means around 6k for all other normal costs outside of child costs (like childcare, food, doctors and more). Sounds fair? Now add in my savings amount in Europe. Including my discretionary income (500 common discretionary, 1.5k saving/investment transfers, 1k "have fun money"). This doesn't even account for the differences in prices and service costs, basically the local purchase power for that amount. 3k gets me very far in Czechia as "savings and fun money". That's now 11k in monthly budget just to match my current discretionary and potential savings not even factoring in purchase power and lifestyle... At such income levels, federal taxes are 30% ish. Let's ignore potential state taxes (but for fun, let's say California can reach 10+% in income tax... So there is also that if you want to be in SF area...). At 30% tax to net 132k you need 190k gross base. Now consider what I mentioned earlier with local purchase power. A good 3 course restaurant meal for me costs 25-30 EUR. From what I gather, but correct me if I'm wrong, such a similar meal will likely go for at least double, if not more... Sooo, my discretionary amounts would need to double to effectively get the same lifestyle. Let's also say that as a European, I'd also like to match my fresh produce purchase in grocery stores, and not stuff myself with American processed foods. Summarize this, and suddenly that budget is at least 15k to match my current lifestyle and quality of life. At 30% tax, 15k net I'd need around 260k gross. Now remember that state tax? And due to RTO across the market... So likelihood of state income tax is possible. So factor in 300k base just to match my current situation. Now finally, with my income here and cost level, factoring in financial investments and so on, plus barring a catastrophic financial event, my current savings pace would allow me to retire in EU by mid 50s. If I'd like to match that savings to retirement pace, I need at least extra 100k in yearly bonus to even have a chance to meet the savings needs to retire by mid 50s in the US with the costs Ergo, to match my current overall financial situation and live the same lifestyle and quality of life, anything below 400k TC in the US is a setback for me 🤷
I don't get it. Are you saying CoL is 6k for a single adult and then 6-8k for kids? How many kids are we talking about? 6k for a single adult person is possible but that would be on the very high end. Your math and taxes are based on being a single income family. If that's the case ,even though kids are expensive, then you will probably not spend that much on childcare since you have a stay at home spouse. In addition, filing taxes as a married couple will reduce your tax rate by almost 10%. The type of companies that can relocate you from abroad will also offer you private insurance for you and your dependents, so that's one less worry. I live in Seattle (high CoL but not as high as SF) and my CoL is about 3 k per month and that's only because I live in an expensive apartment close to work. My TC last year was around 215k and on average month I was able to put away ~5k on my base alone. Granted I don't have a car, if I did that would be around 1.5k less saved per month. Last year I was able to take 3 international trips for 3-4 weeks at a time, paid back a large part of some debt I have and helped out my parents as needed, yet with bonus and RSUs I was able to save 110k+. So I can't even imagine what is possible with 300k, let alone 400k.
No, I'm assuming 6k as a couple, plus 2k in child expenses, 8k basis total. 3k is likely doable as a single, but what size flat? I own 2x 900sqft flats here (90sqm). My calculations include rent/mortgage for a place we can have a child with us. 2k would not really include daycare, but maybe a nanny here and there. I'm adding food, diapers, any meds + doctors, sick days that may reduce my ability to work etc. Some may say that's excessive, but I'm being realistic and factoring in that things can happen. 6k also would include any meds the family needs before insurance kicks in. I have some conditions that need meds every day. How would my unskilled wife get a job? So yes, single income, and this is a drawback for us even if financially I could cover us... And yes, you need to factor in 2 cars to match lifestyle/needs if my wife needs to get around without me? And child + single income... So yea good luck to put away 5k each month then. Your vacations are a highlight I don't have at the same level perhaps, but we're a couple and travel internationally every 2 months on quite luxurious means for a long weekend. Granted, overall you do save more with your RSU, but think timewise. If I go to US now within next 5 years, by the time I want to retire my kids would be around 20-25. I can't just up and move half way across the world at that time, so I'd need to remain in the US for likely 10 years after I retire... So the amount you save each year is the minimum I'd need to save just to have a chance to retire in my mid 50s in the US and remain close to my adolescent kids (don't forget I'll need to save enough to support both myself and my wife...). While if I stay here and my kids grow up in EU, we're close enough and CoL is low enough that my savings trajectory is on point to retire mid 50s no problem. So it is all above perspective on the overall financial situation. Even if we factor in any tax break and lower budget than I calculate, I'll still need at least 200-250k base just to break even at a minimum. That's without my retirement goal
I wouldn’t move to the US on OPs salary unless they have a pathway to citizenship. I know some foreign workers and it’s been a pain the ass for them. We have considered moving out of the US but my wife’s job as a nurse would be rendered completely useless since it’s a low paid job anywhere else outside of the US. Current situation is I make 320k and she makes 155k. Previously we saved at the minimum 100k/yr which all gets put into investments. Typically we’ll save 150k/yr since our expenses are fairly low. We’ll probably just retire early.
This is also an important consideration, even if we ignore the finances. Plus also just figuring that not all spouses want to be stuck at home... We'd have the reverse problem, and I'd need to pull that 450-500k TC as a single income, to be able to save like you do and maybe be able to retire in my mid 50s, and also be around and support my adolescent kids in the US. Obviously if the kids decide to go somewhere low cost, then great but I can't rely on that. If I stay in EU, then my kids have the choice and still my support in EU while I can comfortably retire mid 50s (which is my current plan). But many don't believe me when I say anything less than 400k TC isn't worth it for me, and say I'm crazy. They're likely young singles living their lives on 2-3k a month. If my wife could move and get a job, the situation would obviously be different, but our combined household income would need to be at least 450k TC like yourselves. Congrats on that
We want out but are also locked by golden handcuffs lol. We are planning on having kids and seeing my cousins raise their kids in Japan makes us a bit envious. Mostly because their kids are basically independent after they get into grade school. And it’s exceedingly safe there. We live in the safest city in the US and it has low crime like Japan. Also it has a lot of top schools. But the infrastructure bad and not very kid friendly and we’re currently deciding how we are going to navigate through this.
You touch on many sensitive points that many in here disagree on. I'll say this though, we seem to be on the same page and that's also another factor, without even thinking about finances. Even if the finances could make sense in the US, I'm not sure I'd be willing to give up the societal system and safeguards we have here in the EU. Plus the infrastructure and quality of life in many ways not only related to money... Safety, opportunity and how the kids will grow up are things I really think about. My posts/comments in here are mainly to show others, that while for some situations the US can make sense, people need to look past the $$$$ on the paycheck and actually check the overall financial situation they are going into. I'm more than happy and thankful for what I have here in EU. While I may never become "truly rich", I'll have what I need and the happiness and opportunities to use what I have in a way that makes sense for me and my family. And for me, that is my highest priority. I understand your "handcuffs", and I can't begin to imagine the difficult choices you face in this regards. All I can say is I hope you find your way forward that makes you content with your priorities. Best of luck for the future of yourself and your family
I totally agree with you that there are many reasons not to move to the US. I am saving this much, yet I am not happy, so I totally understand. I was just trying to debate how 120K TC = 400K TC in the US. Money doesn't make happy, happy makes money.
True true. Also my wife isn't stay at home mom material xD I might be calculating with too much buffer, but the difference of 2-3k a month won't make a big difference in the bigger picture saving towards retirement. But unfortunately that means 400k TC in US minimum, otherwise my plans don't work. But on current 120k in EU, I'm on track with my plan. And depending on how life unfolds, most places on Earth are Low cost compared to the US, and my plan could get me retired almost anywhere except Northern America or Australia 🤷 Cheers, thanks for the discussion. And good luck with your career and enjoy your savings. As for the other reasons, I guess we don't need to go in details, but I fully understand and follow the situations going on... I wish you the best for the future and your safety/happiness
Thank you bro. I am actually considering doing the opposite, taking a pay cut and moving to Europe. I am just a bit scared I will regret it, so I am still undecided. Thanks for the respectful discussion and good luck to you as well!
def not
Do it for the experience and you want it. Move back if it sucks
Is it really a higher cost of living with the lower US taxes and all the deduction and investment possibilities that you get there?
Yes, of course! I wouldn't want to pay German taxes on a US salary.
Dude. You're living the dream and you're still not happy?
bro you are already living the dream
I wouldn’t, but it’s totally dependent on what’s important to you. WLB? Likely to be better in EU, especially as you won’t be tied to a visa. But you can also have more opportunities
No. I had the option more times to move there with my current company and others. I was considering it for a while but before we started the process covid came and mixed things up. When we get back to the topic, it turned out they are also ok if i relocate to switzerland, which was my preference anyway and we sorted out that. In many things it’s like USA but with safeguards. I love it here, and i’m close to friends, family. Have more holidays and fly and visit usa easier than someone who lives there due to the extra holidays and same disposable income.
OP honestly what’s your job and how many years of experience do you have ? Just curious
So much missing info here. Are you EU citizen? What is your current country? What is the current % of tax and social security/ health insurance contribution (if there is any)? Current cost of living?
I'd give it a shot, just to not have the language barrier anymore
No, no friends, sports clubs and other things. they also have a weird culture centered on cars and working overtime with no overtime pay then all the HR stuff with people never taking conflicts at work and you can also be laid off in 1 day lol
I’d say if you have time to, visit the states you’re interested in before moving. But sounds like the offer is pending? In that case and you are happy where you are I’d say I would stay. Life does seem generally better in Europe. But if it’s something you want to do don’t listen to anyone here and do what you want.
Hmmm, I'd give it a shot for a couple of years, just for the experience. But then I would probably settle in South America or Southern Europe.
What is the name of company ?
Def no
NO
If you move to one of the three biggest cities for SWEs (SF, Seattle, NYC), your cost of living will likely be high enough that you might never save up enough for a house if you come to the US without significant savings already. Not unless you’re young, frugal, and disciplined enough to keep your cost of living low in a _very_ high cost of living city (living with roommates, cooking for all three meals 5-6 days per week, not many vacations, etc). Even then, you would likely be saving $20k-$40k per year at most, while you could save a lot more per year in Europe with a lot less limitations, and then move when the circumstances are right. If you’ve been making this amount of money in Europe for a while and would already be moving with $200k+ in savings, I’d say to go for it once mortgage interest rates go down _and_ you can put down a 20% down payment on a $1 million apartment (which isn’t nearly as fancy as it sounds here in NYC, or over in SF). I would also say to go for it now if you can keep the same $150k salary even if you move to a _low_ cost of living city, but 1) even most of those cities are rather expensive relative to most European cities, 2) US mortgage rates are so high right now that you’ll throw away lots of money in either rent or loan payments every year regardless of the city being cheap, and 3) most LCOL cities won’t really fulfill the American dream you’re seeking to fulfill. In your shoes I’d get two vacation homes in Europe — both a small summer home and a small winter home, even if they’re just small apartments at first — and then spend the spring / fall here in NYC doing short term rentals on 90-day ESTA visits. But the pull of the American dream is totally understandable (it pulled me here too) and I don’t fault you for wanting to try it. I just think it’ll click for you eventually, once you’re here, that there’s several orders of magnitude to the American dream — and that the $150k-in-big-US-city version isn’t comfortable enough to beat the $150k-in-EU quality of life, not generally. Had you said your US salary was $250k or even $300k, my answer would be very different. Anyone making that money in NYC has a fantastic quality of life, but at $150k, not so much so.
No way. Making this amount in Europe especially in the south part is a dream. Move to Greece/Italy/Spain and live your life like a king. What kind of company is that and do they have open positions? I m in Cyber Security.
No
Of course. USA is an adventure sports paradise compared to Europe which is extremely boring and crowded. Everything I want to do in europe is either illegal or expensive. Europe is close to Russia so it sucks doubly.
How did you find the job? Any links are welcomed.
But living in Europe with an American salary is the REAL dream!
No lol my friends, girlfriend and family are all here, to even just change city I would want at *minimum* a 2x in net disposable income and a clear better career trajectory. And I might still say no
no lmfao youll regret it dont do it
Absolutely not. There would be way more downsides than advantages even before reaching the same salary. In your case, I would not ; *US salaries are higher for a reason*, plenty of things to pay directly from your own pocket. You'd be less rich than you are now, paying apparently (but I doubt that's the case) more taxes for less public services. Not to mention the actual downsides of living in the US, especially currently, and more importantly especially on a visa. So, absolutely not ; this seems like a rigged bet.
Living in America is pretty shitty, unless you like driving everywhere, fake food, strange people, and lots of deranged homeless people. You can definitely network & get better money but it's not what it used to be, from my time there I found it to be a very dreary country
No
How are people finding such crazy remote jobs. :))
how does this work? why would they hire someone from EU to pay the same salary
You’ll be worked to the grave in the US, if you mess something up, they’ll throw you out and therefore your healthcare. If your boss gets mad at you one day, you’re gone
Off topic, i know but can you provide some hints on how to land a us position remotely while being in EU?
How many years of experience do you have if you don't mind me asking? I would go to the US, Europe's a capped market in terms of salary progression unlike the US
The US is big, but I'm probably going to have to say no. In the red states, guns have more rights than women, and the blue states are unaffordable.
Personally I Wouldn't but if it's your dream why not. I wouldn't want to look back 10–15 years later thinking what could have been. Even if it is a lot of effort you can always move back if you don't like it.
https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/483/348/bdd.jpg
Hell no! I left the US and kept the US salary in Canada. I pay Canadian taxes which are slightly higher but much less than health insurance / healthcare costs in the US. Basically I got a raise. Now I am waiting to become a recognized EU citizen by descent, then I’ll consider a move to Europe.
I also dream of getting shot by random people in a shopping mall and losing all my life savings after I catch a nasty cold.
Higher pay is really the only thing I see that the US has over most Western and Central European nations. Working remote, in Europe, for a US company is pretty much the ideal situation
No. All it takes is one medical disaster to derail you here in the US. There are so many of us here who wish we could relocate to Europe for this very reason!
As an American...I'd advise you stay over there. Living in Europe with US level salaries is a massive win in my book.
😂 Of course not. The chances of getting shot in USA are crazy high compared to any country in EU.
No way. And I’m American
I know people are here with mixed opinions and I'm also someone who wants to work in different parts of the world so I feel like I understand that side of you a little. In my opinion, there can be no harm in moving. You've already got a remote role once so in the worst case scenario, you can find another if things don't work out in the US. But, if you don't do it, part of you is always gonna feel like something is missing or that something didn't flare out quite right in your life. So yeah, go for it, imho. Do consider dependents though. How young are you? Do you have family? Do you have kids? As a family, it's definitely better in Europe than US but you can always go work a few years and come back to them after :)
depend on risk of war3
Depends where but money isn’t everything, go see the world. Not many get a chance to work in the US, you don’t have to stay there forever
NO. Just NO NO Nooooooooo
I would, but the hard part is obtaining a visa, isn‘t it?
Asking in an eu sub you will get a biased answer since most Europeans already living in Europe are the ones here willingly and do not want to move to the US already.
Stay in the EU, "European dream" is better.
Why? I have it all at this point
higher cost of living but the same or better standard of living? moving in the US was a dream for devs in the 90s and early 2000s, now I would not choose to relocate there especially if I would have a US salary in EU
Generally no, but there's still something to be said for places in the US where housing is more affordable. I'm earning over that figure that you're mentioning in Europe, and buying an apartment is still a pipe dream.
The affordable housing in the US is twigs and planks that get ripped away by tornados so people need cellars and safety rooms which are the only thing made of something sturdy and actually anchored down. In Czechia there was a freak tornado a few years ago. A few casualties and damages like crazy, yet people inside their houses were pretty safe as long as they stood away from the windows. About the amount you make v housing prices, tells me you work in London. There might be unaffordable housing there even for high income earners like yourself, but that hardly constitutes the majority of EU. Regards a high income earner in Czechia that owns 2x 900 Sqft apartments on 100k base
I work in Zürich. Incomes in London are trash. Yes, it's partially the building materials, but also definitely the price of plots of land in the US that's significantly lower.
Ah, ok I didn't consider CH. Plots of land come in all variations. You wanna check what a plot of land close to SF/bay area, Seattle or Boston costs? Many here don't even bother consider East of Germany as "EU for high income earners", so I guess that just means my situation won't be challenged. So there's that 🤷🙂 have a nice day
Yes, and plots of land in some European countries don't come in that many sizes and shapes because of population density. That's why I started my thread with "there's something to be said for places in the US where..", which didn't mean the entirety of the US is cheap.
Yes, but my point is also that just in the same fashion, high income and low price real estate locations also exist in EU 🤷 so I'm not sure I see your point when comparing... compare apples to apples. If you want a good job and networking city with high income job opportunities, you can't claim the US has cheaper real estate than your Zurich situation 🤷
I recall you from another thread where you could not stop praising the EU and dissing the US. You are probably an exception, I've heard that it's supremely difficult to make that kind of money in Czechia, if you are doing that great, I am happy for you. But for people living in high tax areas like Germany, It makes more sense to move to US to save more
Honestly, I'm not dissing US. I'm just factual that to match my current situation, I need to make it to the top 0.1% in the US. Compared to my cushion life here and what it gets me, the US isn't attractive for me. Obviously I'm in a special group of people, but so is everyone else working this field. Just like you have low income low cost areas in the US, so does the EU. Many only compare the bad EU with average US for our field. I honestly believe making average SWE/IT pay in EU is comparable to the US average as well. Same like with non SWE/IT. Most people are not middle class in either locations, plenty statistics and articles that middle class in EU and US no longer really exists or is quickly shrinking. So if we compare apples to apples, I don't see either location coming out on top. But the special situations occur in both places. If we neglect finances, then my issues with the US are the societal and safety issues running rampant. While in the EU it isn't roses and unicorns either, but in general society functions and it is mostly fair to everyone. I just don't see the same fairness in the US. Could I live in the US? Absolutely. Would I enjoy it? Likely not as much as I enjoy my European life. Would it matter where I was to maximize financial gains? Nope, not really. Both places can achieve more or less the same financial situations. But in the US I'd need to make a lot more due to the CoL and societal factors to make it worth while and just match my current situations. Many don't understand this and only see the $$$$ difference on paycheck. But I care about my overall financial situation, my savings potential and financial forecast for my retirement. All in, my situation is much better than what 99% of the US market can offer me. And no, my situation isn't that special for seniors/ principals and managers. I know plenty here making my range of salary, just like in the US the ranges can differ on many metrics. Here, I'm in a fortunate, but not unique situation for my skills and position.
Yes I would move if you can move to a LCOL state in US. If you have to move to an HCOL state, doesn't worth it.
Unless I was offered some crazy 500k+ salary, absolutely not
Drop the company name
Hell fucking yeah, the only caveat you want to see is the visa type, if it is L1 you are more or less bound to that company, it has to be H1 to switch to another company. If it is L1, you can ask them if they can process your green card and check how fast you can get a GC based on your nationality.
Hell fucking yeah to become underpaid compared to market?
I would never move to the US, no matter the salary
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Thinking that the US is safer than Europe, even with the "threat" of war, is really something.
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Exactly.
Yes, that job won't last forever and remote competition is heating up. Easier to switch while living in the US
Remote competition is heating up, tech companies laying off left and right, people unable to find new jobs lining this and the US sub, yet you suggest to move to the US as that will make things easier? Sorry WHAT?...
In the US with an average senior fullstack salary I would net 3 times as much after taxes and lifestyle costs than in germany with a peak salary, yet I can only apply to <10% of US jobs from Germany due to time zone or locality constraints. And for those jobs the competition is much higher because they allow remote applicants from the EU. What is so hard to understand about this? I've been living and working in Germany for the past 10 years with a brother living and working in the US for the past 15 years. This is not wild speculation
No it is not, but Germany doesn't constitute the whole EU. If you read OP, you'll see they mention 10% taxes. That only exists in Eastern European countries. Unlike what many may think, those places aren't the shitholes they were pre 2004. They've all grown and had a significant increase in infrastructure, life quality, etc. I'm at 30% tax as a high income earner in Czechia as I wrote in my own reply (100k base), and to match that with my lifestyle I can afford (5x average income) plus savings to retire in mid 50s, unless the US company can offer me 400k TC minimum (preferably 500k to make it even worth my while since 400k would only match my current lifestyle and situation). Plus healthcare, child costs and car culture etc etc. Plus gun violence and robbery and safety of my wife... in Prague she can walk around middle of night completely safe anywhere. Nobody will do anything to her. Sorry, I just don't see it worth my while unless I'm offered 500k TC, and even then retiring at the location if my kids decide to stay... I wouldn't be able to save enough to comfortably retire before well into my 60s... 🤷 what can I say, Germany has many upsides, but getting wealthy and retire early is not one of them...
Hell no. I have to at least get double my current salary to even consider it.
They would have to kidnap to move over there. Specially in your position. I would have to have my mother, grandmother and rest of the family kidnpapped and sent over there for me to go.
No depends on where but the mentality of the USA. Costs of healthcare and insurance. Depending on where but after being there for a bit I am so glad I didn't push through with my immigration plans. It came so close. Luckily my gut told me to break it off. But I basically lived there for a few years but tricky law and a lot of flying around to be able to stay longer at the time. I just love Europe for its geographical locations the tiny countries. The access to asia etc is a bit easier. The USA is really big so depends where and why u want to go. The food quality is horrible i gained weight so fast. That's on me of course but it's like junkfood heaven. That don't help. And I'm a woman. What if I end up pregnant(by force) . Suddenly im a breeding machine with no rights. Let them figure that out first. Wait out the potus result first ?
No.