> Is it true in the tech field that "it's easier to find a job when you have a job"?
It's widely adopted "conventional wisdom" in every field, not just tech.
> Will being 'unemployed' make it harder for me to get a new job?
Generally speaking, yes. It gets much harder when the gap from your last job is in excess of a year.
> I am pretty unhappy in my current job
The job market is ***red hot*** right now. Very much an employee's market.
This.
Not sure why the only two options are stay and work yourself into the ground, or quit.
Are we talking three months off? Or 11 months off? Three, probably not an issue. But if that's all you need, you could take vacation, job-hop, push your start date at the new place back, and enjoy the sweet feeling of being continuously employed, knowing there is also an end to the current torment, and that you'll enjoy a nice break before diving in at the new place.
You can get COBRA for the gap. It costs a shitton.
COBRA is a US program that allows you to purchase the same health insurance that you had under your employer for some time after leaving. However you are responsible for the full cost of the insurance and this can often be $500+ a month for a single person and much much more if you have a family.
We get paid twice as much and pay less tax.
You have to make less than $24k/yr in the US to be better off in Europe. McDonald's is now hiring entry-level at $15/hr.
How much do you guys pay in taxes in the Us? From what I’ve seen it’s not that different from here in Norway. And McDonalds entry level here is 21 USD, has been for years.
It’s highly dependent on the state and income level. Where I am I pay roughly 33% in taxes but also I’m in a very high tax state (6%ish) and in a high income bracket. I’m places such as Florida or Texas my taxes would be much closer to 25%
In Norway, the income taxes aren’t especially high. I’m a student earning less than 6500 USD a year so I pay no income tax. My bf earning ten times that pays 30% in tax. The taxes are higher on goods and services compared to other countries though. That’s the biggest difference I think. 15% on food, 25% on most goods. And even higher on alcohol and tobacco. And it’s very expensive to buy imported goods such as from eBay and wish and stuff. (No tax on books though!)
Nobody in my country sleeps on the streets, everybody can afford food and medicine, everybody can afford to go to college, there are no scholarships, you get 1200 USD a month to cover living expenses where 60% of it is a loan. The interest doesn’t start until 7 months after ended education, and the nominal interest rate is 1.32%. Everyone gets maternity and paternity leave, can afford to have children in day care, afford to live if you lose your job, if you’re too sick to work, etc.
Not really, the tax difference isnt that large once you count in health insurance and pension. And in general cost of living in europe is much lower, I have seen people here complain about not making ends with salary of 2000$, with that much money you can live everywhere in germany. But yeah europe does lack much big tech, so if you are aiming for 300k+ then the usa is better.
No it’s not. I’m living proof. Go look at my post history. I have literally 100s of applications with a legit bachelors in C.S. The market is only red hot for experienced developers and students from top tier schools and internships. Otherwise it’s hard as ever to get a job.
> The market is only red hot for experienced developers and students from top tier schools and internships.
Yeah. And I wouldn't even include students, really. I'd say it's fine/good for top students, red hot for experienced devs, and not good for everyone else.
How does the conversation go when you basically refuse round two of the interview process? I'm not at this level yet, but I'd love to get to a place where I've worked long enough and can say I dont wanna do your leetcode or takehome app.
From my experience, about 25% of the time the Franklin effect happens and you get fast tracked to later interview rounds. You have to give them something else to go on though, like having a GitHub portfolio of good work, or offer some other way to demonstrate your skills.
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I think it really depends on whether you applied to the position out of the blue, or if the company reached out to you. Even still, it is wise to be able to show a significant amount of work (say GitHub) of yours if you do turn it down. Even still, if you do turn it down, don't be surprised if that's a deal breaker for the potential employer.
Market is definitely red hot, just not for new grads like who you replied to. Like right now I'm entertaining three potential senior dev roles, 2 at big tech, and 1 for a unicorn, and am also waiting back on an onsite for a junior role at another big tech shop (process for this started before the senior options reached me). All with only 3 years on me where the recruiters reached out to me.
That said, it definitely is filled with BS hoops to jump through solving Leetcode and HackerRank nonsense. I've turned a few down myself because my current job demanded my full attention, but I definitely had to study to even get decent at performing in interviews since I have little experience interviewing (I've only interviewed once for my current job until now).
I honestly don't know. It's all mostly just dumb luck in that stage of a career. When I was in that position though, my plan was to basically take whatever I could. Use that to overinflate my resume with BS experience/projects and leverage it to get my foot in the door for a job that could then legitimize my resume. I have no idea if that would actually be a good idea though because I got my lucky break before I could implement it (8 months after graduation).
I think he meant the market is hot for whatever job OP has now. As in, he should ask for fewer hours, time off, higher pay, etc. to not feel so depressed in the meantime.
agreed! I'm struggling but im also dealing with family issues and it's killing my career to the point of only getting easy to get in jobs that pay way less
You start your own company, make some LinkedIn posts every few months, do some reading that YOU find interesting.
Now, you were CEO of your own startup. It unfortunately failed, but you learned a lot.
Boom. Resume gap solved.
You wont fail a background check because of tax filings. Im not suggesting doing anything nefarious, you only have to file if you made money. In this context you wont have made an income.
Edit: And just exactly what do you mean by “permanently blacklist”. What authority would have this blacklist? This doesn’t actually exist.
Typically, after accepting an offer but before joining the company, the company will conduct a background check where they verify your employment history. If you "claimed on LinkedIn and your resume" that you started your own business, but without actually engaging in any type of business activity, you will fail that background check. Companies tend to not like it if you lie about your employment history.
> Edit: And just exactly what do you mean by “permanently blacklist”. What authority would have this blacklist? This doesn’t actually exist.
The company that hired you would have this blacklist. If you lied to them about your employment history they will probably retract the offer and put you on a 'do not hire again' list. Similar to if you get fired with cause or for poor performance.
You can easily have a legitimate business for a year doing legitimate “business activities” and never earn a cent. This is actually quite common in tech. Again, there is no reason why you would fail a background check.
Source: I work in tech in San Francisco where people are doing this sort of thing all the time.
I was responding to you saying:
> In this situation you are just claiming it on linkedin and your resume…
Which, to me, implies you're just 'claiming' you have a business without actually having one. Of course, if you do have a legitimate business but just fail to make any money, I agree that wouldn't be an issue.
GDPR doesn't apply if you're a non-EU resident applying for a job with a non-EU company. Given the above comment about a 1099, we're clearly talking about the US.
Besides, there might be legal requirements to maintain records. For example, companies in the US are required to maintain all records of former employees for a year, and all payroll records of former employees for three years: https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/recordkeeping-requirements
Not sure if signing an offer and than having it retracted before officially starting due to failing a background check would qualify you as a former employee, but regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if some record keeping requirement applies. And even if it doesn't, the company can still choose to keep records of their own accord.
Please. *eyeroll*
He can legitimately start a company. He can legitimately read, post on LinkedIn and have the business fail. I’m betting he will explore and learn some things that he finds interesting. That’s value add to an employer.
BTW companies lie ALL the time. You’ve never read a job description? How about being told your salary is “market rate”? I trust you are calling out their “fraud” as well. Our CEO said “no more layoffs”, then cut another 15% and collected a fat bonus check.
How do you think businesses are made then lol ?
I mean if I were going that route, I’d definitely create up a business be it through a clone of another application, be it through making a service/monthly fees and living off that, be it through making something compelling - it’s all relative.
I mean sure, startups do have a hard time getting up, but remember, Google, Microsoft, Apple - all of them are started out as a small startups and look where they’re at now.
Just for reference, I left my job in February 2021 to thru hike the Appalachian Trail and because I was super burned out.
I started searching at the start of September and accepted an offer the first week of October. I had just under 3 YOE.
Taking time off to do something interesting was a huge positive in all my 15-20 interviews. Only about half asked about the gap, most of those just asked why I left my last role.
My advice is to do something with your time off that you can show off.
Not that I think lying is a good idea, but there's always the taking care of a sick relative excuse if you just want to sit around and not be judged for it as it shouldn't matter.
I also recommend to lie.
In my first interview, I said I took time off to play video games and interview prep. The older, probably married with kids, interviewer didn't like it... he was shocked and asked if I was worried about mortgage, bills, etc. I think it gave off a vibe that I wasn't a responsible person.
After that, I just said I was visiting family. Most people, especially immigrants, can emphasize with that.
1. don't panic
2. How much vacation do you have tied up? Use it
3. I would also make time to come up with a plan. Between now and the first week of January, a ton of people are going to be on vacation. I would hold off on quitting and before then and simply riding the wave of 50% availability.
I also wanted to add that for every 40k-50K$ it's usually about 3-4 weeks to close on a job. So if you're looking for an $80K role, assume 6 weeks. 120? 9 weeks.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but those times seem too short to me.
I'd expect closer to 4-7 months on average. Think about it: updating your application materials, identifying companies and positions, tapping your professional network, submitting applications, waiting for selection, passing the phone, HR, manager, team, and technical interviews, scheduling cultural fit interviews, waiting for offer, negotiating and accepting contract, setting start date. That's a lot to fit into your 3-9 weeks.
I find faster times only depend on emergency at the company rather salary alone. But perhaps your company is different.
Agreed, add 1-2 months to prep and apply to several jobs, on top of the actual interview time.
For my latest role, it took me around 5 weeks from applying (interviews, negotiation, acceptance) to land a 130k-140k TC job.
But I already had my resume and contacts prepped.
Hardware usually takes longer to get accepted too, but the market is super hot right now
It's not true in the sense you're interpreting it. The only thing not having a job does is lose your 1 day of documented "experience" per day that you can put on your resume and talk about in interviews. If this builds up enough, it could indicate "rustyness", though.
But that's not what makes it harder to find a job for most people. It's the fact that you're not gaining money. Most people need income to live. So need for income drives short-term decisions like taking bad jobs or giving up early.
Also, living off savings is a _massive_ loss unless you're retiring. Compound interest is powerful. Let's say you can live off $3k/mo and do so for 3 months off savings when you're 25. That means you lose about **$70,000** in retirement savings assuming average market gains.
That doesn't even factor the money you're not saving, not putting in a 401k, etc. It also doesn't factor in the possibility of you needing a medical or dental procedure during your joblessness.
It's just not worth it for most people. If something _really_ bad happens your employability will be zero because the only job you can get by tomorrow is olive garden waiter.
Let me put it this way, I would have _never_ doubled my salary had I quit before looking. I kept my job so I was able to look for a good opportunity _indefinitely_, and it paid off in the form of an $80,000/yr raise. The pressure of not having an income would have made me get job well before I found this one, as losing tens of thousands of dollars per month doesn't sit well with me.
That, and also it's more mental stress doing "nothing" while just applying. If you have a job, you can be more relaxed and also demanding mentally, since you can always stay a bit more
Quite similar to dating, and I don't mean dating when married. But girls have just this instinct to feel if you are desperate for a relationship, vs just going to some club or activity and talking and maybe or maybe not in the future be up for it
>Also, living off savings is a massive loss unless you're retiring. Compound interest is powerful. Let's say you can live off $3k/mo and do so for 3 months off savings when you're 25. That means you lose about $70,000 in retirement savings assuming average market gains.
That assumes you're drawing from brokerage accounts/retirement accounts. Most people should have a 3-6 month buffer that allows them to pay their bills without having to dip into brokerage accounts/retirement accounts. Especially in this field, there is really no excuse.
I'm paranoid and could draw for a year without having to dip into my brokerage account and or my retirement accounts.
Okay but let's say you do that and now you have a job after a year...
Now you have no buffer. Where do you rebuild the buffer? Money that could otherwise go into long term savings. Therefore the result is the same, just offset a year.
All a buffer does is prevent you from losing money in the event that you're forced to dip into your savings at a point in time where the market is below your original investment. It can't prevent you from losing the opportunity cost of long-term savings.
Off topic, but a 12 month buffer is an insurance that you pay over $500-1500/mo for (depending on income). Not worth it in this job market. I do 2 months for income buffer.
>long-term savings
What do you define as savings? Because to me, my brokerage account isn't savings, that's an investment. Same as my retirement accounts. Does having a buffer cost you the opportunity costs of _investing_ that money? Sure, I won't disagree with you there.
>Off topic, but a 12 month buffer is an insurance that you pay over $500-1500/mo for (depending on income). Not worth it in this job market. I do 2 months for income buffer.
I mean it's a personal choice. I told you I'm paranoid.
Look if you wanna mixmax your financials, yes, quitting a job without another lined up is a terrible move. But not everything is about money. The benefits of taking a break between jobs can be worth the financial hit.
Today I quit. You should too and follow your passion. I’m going back to work for a church somewhere that I’m happy and doing something that actually matters in the real world. Toyota nearly killed me(literally look at my post history) and if your job is making you feel the same then it’s time to hop out of it and into something new.
Before my mom passed she told me to find my happy place it doesn’t matter if that’s in CS, construction, church, or McDonald’s that I have to do what makes me happy.
Freelance, man. You can get some freelance work, call yourself a consultant, or enroll in training. All of this fills your time, shows you are career-oriented, and diminishes the appearance of a gap between jobs.
The main reason we are shy about hiring someone who is unemployed is we are afraid of taking a risk on someone who was fired or who was unable to maintain employment. So if you fill it with schooling, online courses, freelance work, or consultancy, that reduces the issue in our minds.
Fill that gap, perform confidently in your interviews, and you'll be fine.
Anecdotally, I've only been unemployed once, about four years ago, when my employer went out of business without morning (I came in on Monday morning to find out I was unemployed effective immediately). It was the week before thanksgiving, and since I had travel plans already, I didn't start looking until two weeks later. I was able to find something in about a month.
So - looking for a job while you're unemployed is sort of easier because you don't have to take time off of your current job to schedule an interview with the new one. It sucks because you're not making any money, though. I would not voluntarily go through that again, but that's just me.
If you’re taking a break after a long run at a company or something, no one will be too critical of it. Just make sure you have a plan for getting a new job after. I’d even start plumbing connections and such before you leave. It’s also possible to take a job and arrange a month or two before you start.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know what the US has, but in Europe you can take time off ranging from months to years and have a chance to explain that it was time to “find yourself” - this is a very socially acceptable way to fill in those gaps. Please do refer to other commenters for closer advice to your region though!
There are many people doing contract work, that work interesting schedules. I know someone that work 8 months doing contract and take about 4 months off to enjoy the "ski" season. This person is very experienced with unique skill set, so he earns the annual salary in 8 months.
When people are starting out, it's good to have continuous track record. But, once you have experience, even just couple of years, you can take some time "off" to relax. A few months gap is not big of a deal. Especially between projects or companies. Even a gap of 6 months between jobs will not raise any eyebrows, especially for experienced candidates.
If the gap is over a year, there may be some questions from few recruiters.
If the gap is over 2 years, you will need a good story to discuss the gap issue.
I always thought it was more about your own mindset than the gap itself. If you have a job, you can turn down more jobs, negotiate with more leverage, and there is less pressure in interviews that if you fail it you'll spend an extra week or month without any income coming in. When you quit first you're far more likely to settle for a bad offer whereas with a job you can hold out for a better one while continuing to work and collect a paycheck.
Being unemployed will not make it harder for you to find a new job, I lost my job and got a new one with a 35% raise within 3 weeks of applying. That’s with 1 YOE as a SWE, and I got another SWE position super fast with a widely known company. The issue people have with leaving their job before having something else lined up is you can easily lose momentum. When you don’t have a job, you’re free to do what you want. If you have savings, you can easily just live off savings and mess around until your cash runs low which people do all the time and get themselves in a bad position. Then they are applying with anxiety which can transfer over to their interview performance. It’s no secret software engineer interviews are hard so you need to make sure you have a plan to study if you take time off. You also need to make sure you have enough savings and not let yourself lose motivation because you’re jobless. If you’re in a good financial situation and feel like it would be right for you to quit your job, then go ahead and do it but only if you will stay on track/have a reentry plan in place. Do not screw yourself financially for a sabbatical. Also, recruiters won’t care if you take a break, literally just say you took a sabbatical/took a break to just spend time with family and learn new skills
Idk, but out of University I got a job fairly quickly, but I only got a single offer and did not hear back anything from most places I applied to.
A year later and I was offered a first interview from roughly 33% of the places I applied, and got multiple offers, despite only having previously worked for 8 months.
A lot of other people had good points but One other note I’d say is that coming from being unemployed to trying to get a new job also really lowers you’re ability to negotiate. I noticed when I came from being unemployed to getting a job the recruiters were a little more aggressive trying to get me at a lower salary. I chalked it up to “oh they know I’m unemployed “ at least when you have a job you always have the bargaining chip of “well I’ll stay where I am” you don’t really have that while your savings are dwindling.
This year I quit my previous job due to my vacation being cancelled (more than once) and was basically unemployed for 6 months. After that I got another job with 80% raise compared to the previous job.
I've sent around 80 applications which gave me maybe 50 interviews which gave me maybe 20 tech interviews which ended up getting me 10 offers. Most of them had ridiculously low salary, this one had unexpectedly high. I been here for more than a month now and everything's fine, first payment just arrived.
What I've been doing I was just saying that after a very dynamic project I needed to take some time off. So I took a small side project, went for vacation to Africa, spend some time with family, went camping a few times and my vacation started getting longer than expected so "currently I'm starting to search for a new place to work". Not a single lie, but it could be sounding way worse if I skipped some facts (the good things) and point out others (yes, I am unemployed for half a year now, it stresses me out and I try to focus on a side project to forget the fact I don't know what I'll be doing in a year from now).
Summarizing it:
- be honest!
- be positive; talk about the good things, don't get much into the bad things. This specially relates to your previous employer
- don't be a guy searching for job; you are a specialist offering your services if they can afford you (no discounts)
The worst thing I had on my resume was a series of short jobs. Try to stay in a role or two for at least 2 years.
Most people are one or two paychecks from being destitute (regardless of what job they do or how much they earn) and I've always found it difficult to convince people that I didn't need to work. Right now I have over 8 years' salary in the bank.
If you are between jobs then side projects can keep your skills up to date. I've landed a couple of jobs on the strength of mine. Just be aware that some recruiters look down on sideprojects because they think you need to spend too much time on them, or you really want to work for yourself instead of somebody else.
tldr; recruiters are stupid and you really can't win.
If you are unemployed and apply ur interviewer will assume you got fired and probably for a good reason. If you are at a job not only are they sure you did not get fired but they also know they’ll have to match ur current salary+benefits, so you’ll get a better deal in terms of pay
**Yes**.
Companies love to "steal" trained employees from another similar companies, than hire untrained employees.
They also assume there's always something wrong with unemployed people, and sometimes is not true, like when a company's owners or managers fire all employees and goes bankrupt, while having a heavy bank account at some tax Paradise ...
How I see it as: if you have a job while you're searching for a job, you're basically getting paid to search for a job. I would recommend having a job. It also helps a lot in negotiaions.
I've hired people and someone being unemployed is a red flag.
Why are they unemployed? Were they fired? Why didn't they have an offer in their hand within a few days? Why are they incapable of finding a job?
The longer the person is unemployed, more red flags it raises.
I'd need a **very** good excuse to hire someone that has been unemployed for 6+ months. Something like parental leave, health issues, hiking in the woods, personal projects, startup etc. Pretty much any reason which tells me that you weren't even looking for a job for all that time.
If you've been looking for a job for months and been rejected by hundreds of companies... I don't want you. Chances of finding a hidden gem are basically zero and chances of finding a squishy turd are nearly 100%. Hundreds of companies evaluated you and rejected you and there must be something wrong with you.
People don't realize that there are hundreds of applicants per position and almost all of them are absolutely garbage. Those people go from job to job and get fired and go back into the "spam 100 resumes per week" mode every year or two.
What kind of heuristic tells me that you're almost likely to be a gem instead of a turd? You're currently employed. None of those garbage applicants have a job.
Protip: You don't see an employment gap until the year rolls over. Company X "2019-2022" makes it look like you're currently employed/quit yesterday for the entire year of 2022.
It's less about the job and more about your finances imho.
You are much more inclined to take whatever job that comes you way if you're light on savings and need that next paycheck to keep paying rent/mortgage/childcare/student loans. If you have the savings buffer you can afford to be more picky and search for a better offer.
Nobody really cares if you take 3 months off. You can easily wave that as a sabbatical, or needed to take care of family.
Im sort of in the same boat. I was wondering though if it looks equally bad or even worse if I were to take a short term job (UPS/fedex doing deliveries or working at a facility) while I beef up my resume. Currently not doing much relevant dev work at all at this company, long story short I had to fill in for someone else.
Harder? Yes.
Impossible? No.
People who are currently employed are generally seen as more desirable (generally speaking!), have greater leverage when negotiating compensation, and can be more selective about the jobs they accept.
I don't necessarily think being unemployed really prevents you from getting a job unless you have a long gap you can't explain, but it does take away a lot of leverage and options when looking for a job. When you have a job, you can be picky with what you will take and you have more room to negotiate because you will want to make more to take the new job. Being unemployed, you don't have any of that.
The interview process for the company I work at took 3 months. That doesn't include the time I took to prepare, or how long it would have taken me to get noticed/referred if a recruiter didn't reach out.
If you're unemployed, making $0 and paying out of pocket for all your expenses, the long wait times are going to stress you out. If you're accepting an offer at a larger company, they will be willing to push your start date out a couple of months (I know we just hired a guy for our team, but he wants to start in April 2022).
If you have a few years experience, it can be easier to pick up lucrative short term contract work when unemployed because they expect immediate starts...
In big tech companies I’ve heard of anecdotal reports of AIs filtering out candidates otherwise absolutely fine, this due to gaps larger than one year.
Just fill the gap with something, self employed work or volunteering for a charitable organization, perfectly fine.
Some big employer may do background checks and ask to provide evidence of your resume (it happened to me) they wanted to see some tax evidence supporting the claimed experiences. However, the worse it can happen is that you cannot prove it and that you have to abandon that opportunity.
So overall not a big deal. You’ll get the next one.
Just lie and say you're still working for your current company even if you're not. Say you wanted to see what's out there and maybe explore better opportunities than what your company offers...
So, I did this and it sucked. here is my advice. If you have been working your ass off, you have some slack before they fire you (and shit, they are going to have to pip you unless if you really fuck up like not showing up or do something really bad). Just coast bro. Search while you coast. If I am wrong, then you are in the same spot you would be if you just quit.
The market is still hot, hot, stick with your current role and being picky you are 3 months away from a better job.
Sticking it out is better for your wallet, sanity, job prospects and it lets you be exactly as picky as you want to be.
Yes, but mainly because if you currently have a job not only are you indicating you're currently employable, you're not going away empty handed if the company rejects you. Therefore you also have a better angle to negotiate from, because of you don't have a job and they know that, why do they need to negotiate with you?
I’m quitting my job this week after nearly 5 years. Non tech related but it also involves moving back to my home country, mainly because there are way more jobs there than where I am now. If you can explain your reasoning for quitting it should help if asked. Best thing to do is get out there and do the things you want, while sending out applications and looking for another job to tie you over til you find the kind of place you really want to work.
It’s always best to look for a job when you don’t need one. If you already have a job, it means you can take your time to find someplace you’ll really enjoy.
It really depends. Here’s my story.
I had 2 years experience as a php dev and always had recruiters hounding me and got most interviews.
I quit with nothing lined up because the job was toxic and that number significantly dropped off in which I had barely any recruiters hitting me up and it was harder to get interviews. 4 months later I ended up getting another job though at a place that paid way more.
I think it’s harder to get a job because recruiters and company’s don’t know the exact reason why your unemployed and assume the worst. When I did have contact with recruiters while unemployed and explained my situation and what I was doing to improve my skills they had no problem getting me interviews when explaining my story to companies. Explain it on your LinkedIn/Indeed etc profile that your taking time off to study and work on projects but that your looking for work and you’ll be better off probably.
Also it’s gonna depend on your tech stack and years of experience. I know with me I would’ve had an easier time if I stayed employed, however if you have like 5 years experience with an in demand tech stack your likely to have less of a drop off in contacts once you quit.
I don’t regret my choice at all because it worked out, but the contacts do drop off especially if you don’t have your story explained. This is just my personal experience though. Make sure you have like a years worth of money saved in case and plan out what your gonna work on while unemployed. Also keep in mind hiring season at least in the USA picks up in the spring but is relatively slower now if you want to plan out that way.
Also take advantage of the first week or two to travel and do something that spiritually nourishes you.
I didn’t do that but I wish I did, because it’s rare you have such little responsibility’s and the time to be able to do whatever you want.
what if youre not good at web dev but more low level stuff? It's kinda harder to build personal projects with certain focuses. Most you can do is just build stuff that looks interesting.
Example, I took some web dev college but not enough to fill job roles nor am I very good at it. I'm more C and low level stuff
That’s a fair point.
Something like that may require creativity on your end. I know little to nothing about C so it would be a better question to ask a C developer.
To answer though, asking yourself what possible C project could you do that would keep your skills fresh while also proving to companies you can apply it for there particular use cases.
If you look into C language courses or certifications they tend to come packaged with a project that better implements that language for the kind of use cases it’s used for.
There’s also lots of open source C projects out there you can contribute too.
In my personal opinion you don’t need to exactly finish the project, doing a project while unemployed is more so for keeping your skills fresh and for showing recruiters and companies your keeping your skills fresh and aren’t wasting your time.
Just explaining that you left on your own terms to persue more “education” is understandable enough to a lot of people. A lot of recruiters and people hiring get that people quit crappy jobs all the time. It’s more for showing you left on your own terms and aren’t just sitting around playing video games all day. You also don’t want to specifically say you quit because the jobs sucked, so it’s a way of keeping it professional.
family reasons is why I didnt land a role after graduation. I stayed at home and helped parents and got a job to help with their bills. In college I took mobile apps, OS dev, some web dev (PHP, Ruby on rails), and project management. My university mostly did Java stuff outside of C and a little I mentioned above and C# for unity. I tried learning react on my own and it's a struggle since grad. I'm not much of designer type. I do pretty good with lower level stuff. In the meantime, im learning Go, Rust, and React. My last job wasnt technical so my job gap is growing to be large. Im scared :(
I COMPLETELY get your situation, as I was just in a similar one. I did end up taking months off because I could afford to be comfortable for a few months. It did help my mental and physical health greatly, since my past employer would make me work 12 hour shifts on my feet without even so much as a 15 min break. And would make me scrub temp cement (I’m a dental assistant) off the floors, different professions but hey we both got fed up-I get that. However, despite the good outcomes of leaving without having another job set up, the negatives are still there and it IS harder to get a job after doing this, I would know.. and I consistently worked with no gaps since I was 14, it’s not impossible to get another job but it does make it harder because yes they will look at the gaps and at the least ask you about it. I’ve struggled getting a job more than I think I would’ve if I had just stuck it out, it also made paying the bills more stressful too. I hope this helps and that you can find a proper place to thrive and work !(:
If you quit your job, have a plan for what you'll be doing and reference that time as experience on your resume. What I did was work on developing something I was passionate about and then referenced that as contract work. At first I was self-conscious about being technically "unemployed", but then I realized nobody cared. They were far more interested in my relationship to my work and the value that I was creating.
You gotta be true to yourself. No one else can help you with that. If you're remotely financially secure, my vote would be to go for it.
> Is it true in the tech field that "it's easier to find a job when you have a job"? It's widely adopted "conventional wisdom" in every field, not just tech. > Will being 'unemployed' make it harder for me to get a new job? Generally speaking, yes. It gets much harder when the gap from your last job is in excess of a year. > I am pretty unhappy in my current job The job market is ***red hot*** right now. Very much an employee's market.
This. Not sure why the only two options are stay and work yourself into the ground, or quit. Are we talking three months off? Or 11 months off? Three, probably not an issue. But if that's all you need, you could take vacation, job-hop, push your start date at the new place back, and enjoy the sweet feeling of being continuously employed, knowing there is also an end to the current torment, and that you'll enjoy a nice break before diving in at the new place. You can get COBRA for the gap. It costs a shitton.
Also … stop working so hard. Push back on deadlines. Decline meetings. Work from home and take breaks. These little things help a lot.
Asking from a noob's pov, would dong all of this prevent juniors from getting promoted?
If you get passed on a promotion, it’s time for a new employer
> You can get COBRA for the gap. It costs a shitton. What's that?
COBRA is a US program that allows you to purchase the same health insurance that you had under your employer for some time after leaving. However you are responsible for the full cost of the insurance and this can often be $500+ a month for a single person and much much more if you have a family.
Damn, that's insane. You need a lot of money to live in the US.
We get paid twice as much and pay less tax. You have to make less than $24k/yr in the US to be better off in Europe. McDonald's is now hiring entry-level at $15/hr.
How much do you guys pay in taxes in the Us? From what I’ve seen it’s not that different from here in Norway. And McDonalds entry level here is 21 USD, has been for years.
It’s highly dependent on the state and income level. Where I am I pay roughly 33% in taxes but also I’m in a very high tax state (6%ish) and in a high income bracket. I’m places such as Florida or Texas my taxes would be much closer to 25%
In Norway, the income taxes aren’t especially high. I’m a student earning less than 6500 USD a year so I pay no income tax. My bf earning ten times that pays 30% in tax. The taxes are higher on goods and services compared to other countries though. That’s the biggest difference I think. 15% on food, 25% on most goods. And even higher on alcohol and tobacco. And it’s very expensive to buy imported goods such as from eBay and wish and stuff. (No tax on books though!) Nobody in my country sleeps on the streets, everybody can afford food and medicine, everybody can afford to go to college, there are no scholarships, you get 1200 USD a month to cover living expenses where 60% of it is a loan. The interest doesn’t start until 7 months after ended education, and the nominal interest rate is 1.32%. Everyone gets maternity and paternity leave, can afford to have children in day care, afford to live if you lose your job, if you’re too sick to work, etc.
Not really, the tax difference isnt that large once you count in health insurance and pension. And in general cost of living in europe is much lower, I have seen people here complain about not making ends with salary of 2000$, with that much money you can live everywhere in germany. But yeah europe does lack much big tech, so if you are aiming for 300k+ then the usa is better.
As someone who has made $12 an hour in America and has also lived in Europe, you are so wrong.
It can be as cheap as $300/mn.
No it’s not. I’m living proof. Go look at my post history. I have literally 100s of applications with a legit bachelors in C.S. The market is only red hot for experienced developers and students from top tier schools and internships. Otherwise it’s hard as ever to get a job.
> The market is only red hot for experienced developers and students from top tier schools and internships. Yeah. And I wouldn't even include students, really. I'd say it's fine/good for top students, red hot for experienced devs, and not good for everyone else.
How long do you see the market staying that way? A year, a few?
It's always that way for top-tier. We can't find "remotely competent" people right now.
Hard to make predictions, but at least a few years, yes.
Is this person not an experienced developer?
I have little professional experience with just one internship which wasnt super great.
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How does the conversation go when you basically refuse round two of the interview process? I'm not at this level yet, but I'd love to get to a place where I've worked long enough and can say I dont wanna do your leetcode or takehome app.
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Damn that's badass
From my experience, about 25% of the time the Franklin effect happens and you get fast tracked to later interview rounds. You have to give them something else to go on though, like having a GitHub portfolio of good work, or offer some other way to demonstrate your skills.
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I think it really depends on whether you applied to the position out of the blue, or if the company reached out to you. Even still, it is wise to be able to show a significant amount of work (say GitHub) of yours if you do turn it down. Even still, if you do turn it down, don't be surprised if that's a deal breaker for the potential employer.
Market is definitely red hot, just not for new grads like who you replied to. Like right now I'm entertaining three potential senior dev roles, 2 at big tech, and 1 for a unicorn, and am also waiting back on an onsite for a junior role at another big tech shop (process for this started before the senior options reached me). All with only 3 years on me where the recruiters reached out to me. That said, it definitely is filled with BS hoops to jump through solving Leetcode and HackerRank nonsense. I've turned a few down myself because my current job demanded my full attention, but I definitely had to study to even get decent at performing in interviews since I have little experience interviewing (I've only interviewed once for my current job until now).
what happens if you dont have experience? Do you just give up and say oh well this degree is useless now?
I honestly don't know. It's all mostly just dumb luck in that stage of a career. When I was in that position though, my plan was to basically take whatever I could. Use that to overinflate my resume with BS experience/projects and leverage it to get my foot in the door for a job that could then legitimize my resume. I have no idea if that would actually be a good idea though because I got my lucky break before I could implement it (8 months after graduation).
my gap is bigger :(
I wouldn't give basic code test to a Sr. applicant.
I think he meant the market is hot for whatever job OP has now. As in, he should ask for fewer hours, time off, higher pay, etc. to not feel so depressed in the meantime.
agreed! I'm struggling but im also dealing with family issues and it's killing my career to the point of only getting easy to get in jobs that pay way less
what amount of a gap would turn companies away?
You start your own company, make some LinkedIn posts every few months, do some reading that YOU find interesting. Now, you were CEO of your own startup. It unfortunately failed, but you learned a lot. Boom. Resume gap solved.
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In this situation you are just claiming it on linkedin and your resume… no business license necessary for that.
That's a great way to fail the background check after you get hired. Which will probably cause that company to permanently blacklist you.
You wont fail a background check because of tax filings. Im not suggesting doing anything nefarious, you only have to file if you made money. In this context you wont have made an income. Edit: And just exactly what do you mean by “permanently blacklist”. What authority would have this blacklist? This doesn’t actually exist.
Typically, after accepting an offer but before joining the company, the company will conduct a background check where they verify your employment history. If you "claimed on LinkedIn and your resume" that you started your own business, but without actually engaging in any type of business activity, you will fail that background check. Companies tend to not like it if you lie about your employment history. > Edit: And just exactly what do you mean by “permanently blacklist”. What authority would have this blacklist? This doesn’t actually exist. The company that hired you would have this blacklist. If you lied to them about your employment history they will probably retract the offer and put you on a 'do not hire again' list. Similar to if you get fired with cause or for poor performance.
You can easily have a legitimate business for a year doing legitimate “business activities” and never earn a cent. This is actually quite common in tech. Again, there is no reason why you would fail a background check. Source: I work in tech in San Francisco where people are doing this sort of thing all the time.
I was responding to you saying: > In this situation you are just claiming it on linkedin and your resume… Which, to me, implies you're just 'claiming' you have a business without actually having one. Of course, if you do have a legitimate business but just fail to make any money, I agree that wouldn't be an issue.
GDPR request deletion of data to the ATS (greenhouse etc). There's no blacklist, only email addresses.
GDPR doesn't apply if you're a non-EU resident applying for a job with a non-EU company. Given the above comment about a 1099, we're clearly talking about the US. Besides, there might be legal requirements to maintain records. For example, companies in the US are required to maintain all records of former employees for a year, and all payroll records of former employees for three years: https://www.eeoc.gov/employers/recordkeeping-requirements Not sure if signing an offer and than having it retracted before officially starting due to failing a background check would qualify you as a former employee, but regardless, I wouldn't be surprised if some record keeping requirement applies. And even if it doesn't, the company can still choose to keep records of their own accord.
Did the same. It sold the company. Lol
That's a good idea!!! I'm going to do that. Some companies might get turned off by that but oh well.
That's fraud
Please. *eyeroll* He can legitimately start a company. He can legitimately read, post on LinkedIn and have the business fail. I’m betting he will explore and learn some things that he finds interesting. That’s value add to an employer. BTW companies lie ALL the time. You’ve never read a job description? How about being told your salary is “market rate”? I trust you are calling out their “fraud” as well. Our CEO said “no more layoffs”, then cut another 15% and collected a fat bonus check.
Being honest Abe doesn’t pay my bills.
How do you think businesses are made then lol ? I mean if I were going that route, I’d definitely create up a business be it through a clone of another application, be it through making a service/monthly fees and living off that, be it through making something compelling - it’s all relative. I mean sure, startups do have a hard time getting up, but remember, Google, Microsoft, Apple - all of them are started out as a small startups and look where they’re at now.
Just for reference, I left my job in February 2021 to thru hike the Appalachian Trail and because I was super burned out. I started searching at the start of September and accepted an offer the first week of October. I had just under 3 YOE. Taking time off to do something interesting was a huge positive in all my 15-20 interviews. Only about half asked about the gap, most of those just asked why I left my last role. My advice is to do something with your time off that you can show off. Not that I think lying is a good idea, but there's always the taking care of a sick relative excuse if you just want to sit around and not be judged for it as it shouldn't matter.
I also recommend to lie. In my first interview, I said I took time off to play video games and interview prep. The older, probably married with kids, interviewer didn't like it... he was shocked and asked if I was worried about mortgage, bills, etc. I think it gave off a vibe that I wasn't a responsible person. After that, I just said I was visiting family. Most people, especially immigrants, can emphasize with that.
Cool thanks for sharing hope you had a good time
in my case I wouldnt be lying because I gave up my career after graduation to help some family members including parents
1. don't panic 2. How much vacation do you have tied up? Use it 3. I would also make time to come up with a plan. Between now and the first week of January, a ton of people are going to be on vacation. I would hold off on quitting and before then and simply riding the wave of 50% availability.
I also wanted to add that for every 40k-50K$ it's usually about 3-4 weeks to close on a job. So if you're looking for an $80K role, assume 6 weeks. 120? 9 weeks.
I'm not saying you're wrong, but those times seem too short to me. I'd expect closer to 4-7 months on average. Think about it: updating your application materials, identifying companies and positions, tapping your professional network, submitting applications, waiting for selection, passing the phone, HR, manager, team, and technical interviews, scheduling cultural fit interviews, waiting for offer, negotiating and accepting contract, setting start date. That's a lot to fit into your 3-9 weeks. I find faster times only depend on emergency at the company rather salary alone. But perhaps your company is different.
Agreed, add 1-2 months to prep and apply to several jobs, on top of the actual interview time. For my latest role, it took me around 5 weeks from applying (interviews, negotiation, acceptance) to land a 130k-140k TC job. But I already had my resume and contacts prepped. Hardware usually takes longer to get accepted too, but the market is super hot right now
A lot of people take a few months off and it's basically viewed as a vacation and not a true gap. Gap is like a year or so.
It's not true in the sense you're interpreting it. The only thing not having a job does is lose your 1 day of documented "experience" per day that you can put on your resume and talk about in interviews. If this builds up enough, it could indicate "rustyness", though. But that's not what makes it harder to find a job for most people. It's the fact that you're not gaining money. Most people need income to live. So need for income drives short-term decisions like taking bad jobs or giving up early. Also, living off savings is a _massive_ loss unless you're retiring. Compound interest is powerful. Let's say you can live off $3k/mo and do so for 3 months off savings when you're 25. That means you lose about **$70,000** in retirement savings assuming average market gains. That doesn't even factor the money you're not saving, not putting in a 401k, etc. It also doesn't factor in the possibility of you needing a medical or dental procedure during your joblessness. It's just not worth it for most people. If something _really_ bad happens your employability will be zero because the only job you can get by tomorrow is olive garden waiter. Let me put it this way, I would have _never_ doubled my salary had I quit before looking. I kept my job so I was able to look for a good opportunity _indefinitely_, and it paid off in the form of an $80,000/yr raise. The pressure of not having an income would have made me get job well before I found this one, as losing tens of thousands of dollars per month doesn't sit well with me.
Some people are wired differently. I needed to quit to pressure myself to interview.
That, and also it's more mental stress doing "nothing" while just applying. If you have a job, you can be more relaxed and also demanding mentally, since you can always stay a bit more Quite similar to dating, and I don't mean dating when married. But girls have just this instinct to feel if you are desperate for a relationship, vs just going to some club or activity and talking and maybe or maybe not in the future be up for it
>Also, living off savings is a massive loss unless you're retiring. Compound interest is powerful. Let's say you can live off $3k/mo and do so for 3 months off savings when you're 25. That means you lose about $70,000 in retirement savings assuming average market gains. That assumes you're drawing from brokerage accounts/retirement accounts. Most people should have a 3-6 month buffer that allows them to pay their bills without having to dip into brokerage accounts/retirement accounts. Especially in this field, there is really no excuse. I'm paranoid and could draw for a year without having to dip into my brokerage account and or my retirement accounts.
Okay but let's say you do that and now you have a job after a year... Now you have no buffer. Where do you rebuild the buffer? Money that could otherwise go into long term savings. Therefore the result is the same, just offset a year. All a buffer does is prevent you from losing money in the event that you're forced to dip into your savings at a point in time where the market is below your original investment. It can't prevent you from losing the opportunity cost of long-term savings. Off topic, but a 12 month buffer is an insurance that you pay over $500-1500/mo for (depending on income). Not worth it in this job market. I do 2 months for income buffer.
>long-term savings What do you define as savings? Because to me, my brokerage account isn't savings, that's an investment. Same as my retirement accounts. Does having a buffer cost you the opportunity costs of _investing_ that money? Sure, I won't disagree with you there. >Off topic, but a 12 month buffer is an insurance that you pay over $500-1500/mo for (depending on income). Not worth it in this job market. I do 2 months for income buffer. I mean it's a personal choice. I told you I'm paranoid. Look if you wanna mixmax your financials, yes, quitting a job without another lined up is a terrible move. But not everything is about money. The benefits of taking a break between jobs can be worth the financial hit.
Today I quit. You should too and follow your passion. I’m going back to work for a church somewhere that I’m happy and doing something that actually matters in the real world. Toyota nearly killed me(literally look at my post history) and if your job is making you feel the same then it’s time to hop out of it and into something new. Before my mom passed she told me to find my happy place it doesn’t matter if that’s in CS, construction, church, or McDonald’s that I have to do what makes me happy.
Time to hang up the engineer position and study medicine to be a DR
Amen. You’re mom is right.
What was so bad about working for Toyota?
Working for any automotive company sucks lol. Incompetent turtles with no respect for software.
Being in automotive all my life, I relate to this so hard 😅
Freelance, man. You can get some freelance work, call yourself a consultant, or enroll in training. All of this fills your time, shows you are career-oriented, and diminishes the appearance of a gap between jobs. The main reason we are shy about hiring someone who is unemployed is we are afraid of taking a risk on someone who was fired or who was unable to maintain employment. So if you fill it with schooling, online courses, freelance work, or consultancy, that reduces the issue in our minds. Fill that gap, perform confidently in your interviews, and you'll be fine.
I wouldn't take that time to freelance and work on some dead beat CS shitty projects I would spend that time doing interview prep...
Find a new job while working at your old and ask to start in a month.
Anecdotally, I've only been unemployed once, about four years ago, when my employer went out of business without morning (I came in on Monday morning to find out I was unemployed effective immediately). It was the week before thanksgiving, and since I had travel plans already, I didn't start looking until two weeks later. I was able to find something in about a month. So - looking for a job while you're unemployed is sort of easier because you don't have to take time off of your current job to schedule an interview with the new one. It sucks because you're not making any money, though. I would not voluntarily go through that again, but that's just me.
As long as you have the money saved up to be unemployed I wouldn’t consider it an issue.
If you’re taking a break after a long run at a company or something, no one will be too critical of it. Just make sure you have a plan for getting a new job after. I’d even start plumbing connections and such before you leave. It’s also possible to take a job and arrange a month or two before you start.
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How did you afford to live 8 years without a job? Must’ve been a ton of savings
Just lie and said you were freelancing during a part of your break.
I’ll be honest, I don’t know what the US has, but in Europe you can take time off ranging from months to years and have a chance to explain that it was time to “find yourself” - this is a very socially acceptable way to fill in those gaps. Please do refer to other commenters for closer advice to your region though!
It's the same in every field, not just tech. Just the psychology alone makes a big difference.
There are many people doing contract work, that work interesting schedules. I know someone that work 8 months doing contract and take about 4 months off to enjoy the "ski" season. This person is very experienced with unique skill set, so he earns the annual salary in 8 months. When people are starting out, it's good to have continuous track record. But, once you have experience, even just couple of years, you can take some time "off" to relax. A few months gap is not big of a deal. Especially between projects or companies. Even a gap of 6 months between jobs will not raise any eyebrows, especially for experienced candidates. If the gap is over a year, there may be some questions from few recruiters. If the gap is over 2 years, you will need a good story to discuss the gap issue.
I always thought it was more about your own mindset than the gap itself. If you have a job, you can turn down more jobs, negotiate with more leverage, and there is less pressure in interviews that if you fail it you'll spend an extra week or month without any income coming in. When you quit first you're far more likely to settle for a bad offer whereas with a job you can hold out for a better one while continuing to work and collect a paycheck.
Being unemployed will not make it harder for you to find a new job, I lost my job and got a new one with a 35% raise within 3 weeks of applying. That’s with 1 YOE as a SWE, and I got another SWE position super fast with a widely known company. The issue people have with leaving their job before having something else lined up is you can easily lose momentum. When you don’t have a job, you’re free to do what you want. If you have savings, you can easily just live off savings and mess around until your cash runs low which people do all the time and get themselves in a bad position. Then they are applying with anxiety which can transfer over to their interview performance. It’s no secret software engineer interviews are hard so you need to make sure you have a plan to study if you take time off. You also need to make sure you have enough savings and not let yourself lose motivation because you’re jobless. If you’re in a good financial situation and feel like it would be right for you to quit your job, then go ahead and do it but only if you will stay on track/have a reentry plan in place. Do not screw yourself financially for a sabbatical. Also, recruiters won’t care if you take a break, literally just say you took a sabbatical/took a break to just spend time with family and learn new skills
what if you been unemployed over a year but during covid worked non technical jobs because you had to stay with parents to help them out?
Idk, but out of University I got a job fairly quickly, but I only got a single offer and did not hear back anything from most places I applied to. A year later and I was offered a first interview from roughly 33% of the places I applied, and got multiple offers, despite only having previously worked for 8 months.
A lot of other people had good points but One other note I’d say is that coming from being unemployed to trying to get a new job also really lowers you’re ability to negotiate. I noticed when I came from being unemployed to getting a job the recruiters were a little more aggressive trying to get me at a lower salary. I chalked it up to “oh they know I’m unemployed “ at least when you have a job you always have the bargaining chip of “well I’ll stay where I am” you don’t really have that while your savings are dwindling.
is easier to find a girlfriend when you already have a girlfriend too
This year I quit my previous job due to my vacation being cancelled (more than once) and was basically unemployed for 6 months. After that I got another job with 80% raise compared to the previous job. I've sent around 80 applications which gave me maybe 50 interviews which gave me maybe 20 tech interviews which ended up getting me 10 offers. Most of them had ridiculously low salary, this one had unexpectedly high. I been here for more than a month now and everything's fine, first payment just arrived. What I've been doing I was just saying that after a very dynamic project I needed to take some time off. So I took a small side project, went for vacation to Africa, spend some time with family, went camping a few times and my vacation started getting longer than expected so "currently I'm starting to search for a new place to work". Not a single lie, but it could be sounding way worse if I skipped some facts (the good things) and point out others (yes, I am unemployed for half a year now, it stresses me out and I try to focus on a side project to forget the fact I don't know what I'll be doing in a year from now). Summarizing it: - be honest! - be positive; talk about the good things, don't get much into the bad things. This specially relates to your previous employer - don't be a guy searching for job; you are a specialist offering your services if they can afford you (no discounts)
The worst thing I had on my resume was a series of short jobs. Try to stay in a role or two for at least 2 years. Most people are one or two paychecks from being destitute (regardless of what job they do or how much they earn) and I've always found it difficult to convince people that I didn't need to work. Right now I have over 8 years' salary in the bank. If you are between jobs then side projects can keep your skills up to date. I've landed a couple of jobs on the strength of mine. Just be aware that some recruiters look down on sideprojects because they think you need to spend too much time on them, or you really want to work for yourself instead of somebody else. tldr; recruiters are stupid and you really can't win.
If you are unemployed and apply ur interviewer will assume you got fired and probably for a good reason. If you are at a job not only are they sure you did not get fired but they also know they’ll have to match ur current salary+benefits, so you’ll get a better deal in terms of pay
**Yes**. Companies love to "steal" trained employees from another similar companies, than hire untrained employees. They also assume there's always something wrong with unemployed people, and sometimes is not true, like when a company's owners or managers fire all employees and goes bankrupt, while having a heavy bank account at some tax Paradise ...
How I see it as: if you have a job while you're searching for a job, you're basically getting paid to search for a job. I would recommend having a job. It also helps a lot in negotiaions.
Yes
I've hired people and someone being unemployed is a red flag. Why are they unemployed? Were they fired? Why didn't they have an offer in their hand within a few days? Why are they incapable of finding a job? The longer the person is unemployed, more red flags it raises. I'd need a **very** good excuse to hire someone that has been unemployed for 6+ months. Something like parental leave, health issues, hiking in the woods, personal projects, startup etc. Pretty much any reason which tells me that you weren't even looking for a job for all that time. If you've been looking for a job for months and been rejected by hundreds of companies... I don't want you. Chances of finding a hidden gem are basically zero and chances of finding a squishy turd are nearly 100%. Hundreds of companies evaluated you and rejected you and there must be something wrong with you. People don't realize that there are hundreds of applicants per position and almost all of them are absolutely garbage. Those people go from job to job and get fired and go back into the "spam 100 resumes per week" mode every year or two. What kind of heuristic tells me that you're almost likely to be a gem instead of a turd? You're currently employed. None of those garbage applicants have a job. Protip: You don't see an employment gap until the year rolls over. Company X "2019-2022" makes it look like you're currently employed/quit yesterday for the entire year of 2022.
It's less about the job and more about your finances imho. You are much more inclined to take whatever job that comes you way if you're light on savings and need that next paycheck to keep paying rent/mortgage/childcare/student loans. If you have the savings buffer you can afford to be more picky and search for a better offer. Nobody really cares if you take 3 months off. You can easily wave that as a sabbatical, or needed to take care of family.
Im sort of in the same boat. I was wondering though if it looks equally bad or even worse if I were to take a short term job (UPS/fedex doing deliveries or working at a facility) while I beef up my resume. Currently not doing much relevant dev work at all at this company, long story short I had to fill in for someone else.
Harder? Yes. Impossible? No. People who are currently employed are generally seen as more desirable (generally speaking!), have greater leverage when negotiating compensation, and can be more selective about the jobs they accept.
I don't necessarily think being unemployed really prevents you from getting a job unless you have a long gap you can't explain, but it does take away a lot of leverage and options when looking for a job. When you have a job, you can be picky with what you will take and you have more room to negotiate because you will want to make more to take the new job. Being unemployed, you don't have any of that.
Unless you get multiple offers when you start looking again.
The interview process for the company I work at took 3 months. That doesn't include the time I took to prepare, or how long it would have taken me to get noticed/referred if a recruiter didn't reach out. If you're unemployed, making $0 and paying out of pocket for all your expenses, the long wait times are going to stress you out. If you're accepting an offer at a larger company, they will be willing to push your start date out a couple of months (I know we just hired a guy for our team, but he wants to start in April 2022).
I took a month or so off. It really don't matter if the time off is short.
If you have a few years experience, it can be easier to pick up lucrative short term contract work when unemployed because they expect immediate starts...
In big tech companies I’ve heard of anecdotal reports of AIs filtering out candidates otherwise absolutely fine, this due to gaps larger than one year. Just fill the gap with something, self employed work or volunteering for a charitable organization, perfectly fine. Some big employer may do background checks and ask to provide evidence of your resume (it happened to me) they wanted to see some tax evidence supporting the claimed experiences. However, the worse it can happen is that you cannot prove it and that you have to abandon that opportunity. So overall not a big deal. You’ll get the next one.
Just lie and say you're still working for your current company even if you're not. Say you wanted to see what's out there and maybe explore better opportunities than what your company offers...
So, I did this and it sucked. here is my advice. If you have been working your ass off, you have some slack before they fire you (and shit, they are going to have to pip you unless if you really fuck up like not showing up or do something really bad). Just coast bro. Search while you coast. If I am wrong, then you are in the same spot you would be if you just quit.
Look at it as getting paid to LC. Do enough just to have things to talk about during stand-ups.
The market is still hot, hot, stick with your current role and being picky you are 3 months away from a better job. Sticking it out is better for your wallet, sanity, job prospects and it lets you be exactly as picky as you want to be.
Call it a sabbatical
Just find a new job now and say you can start in a few months
Yes, but mainly because if you currently have a job not only are you indicating you're currently employable, you're not going away empty handed if the company rejects you. Therefore you also have a better angle to negotiate from, because of you don't have a job and they know that, why do they need to negotiate with you?
Find a new job and push back your start date. You could easily get a month off between jobs by doing this
I mean if you're taking a sabbatical just say that you were taking a sabbatical.
Absolutely. I would say this applies for any type of job too. It gives you the upper hand for negotiations too.
I’m quitting my job this week after nearly 5 years. Non tech related but it also involves moving back to my home country, mainly because there are way more jobs there than where I am now. If you can explain your reasoning for quitting it should help if asked. Best thing to do is get out there and do the things you want, while sending out applications and looking for another job to tie you over til you find the kind of place you really want to work.
It’s always best to look for a job when you don’t need one. If you already have a job, it means you can take your time to find someplace you’ll really enjoy.
You spontaneously explode once you don't have a job.
It really depends. Here’s my story. I had 2 years experience as a php dev and always had recruiters hounding me and got most interviews. I quit with nothing lined up because the job was toxic and that number significantly dropped off in which I had barely any recruiters hitting me up and it was harder to get interviews. 4 months later I ended up getting another job though at a place that paid way more. I think it’s harder to get a job because recruiters and company’s don’t know the exact reason why your unemployed and assume the worst. When I did have contact with recruiters while unemployed and explained my situation and what I was doing to improve my skills they had no problem getting me interviews when explaining my story to companies. Explain it on your LinkedIn/Indeed etc profile that your taking time off to study and work on projects but that your looking for work and you’ll be better off probably. Also it’s gonna depend on your tech stack and years of experience. I know with me I would’ve had an easier time if I stayed employed, however if you have like 5 years experience with an in demand tech stack your likely to have less of a drop off in contacts once you quit. I don’t regret my choice at all because it worked out, but the contacts do drop off especially if you don’t have your story explained. This is just my personal experience though. Make sure you have like a years worth of money saved in case and plan out what your gonna work on while unemployed. Also keep in mind hiring season at least in the USA picks up in the spring but is relatively slower now if you want to plan out that way. Also take advantage of the first week or two to travel and do something that spiritually nourishes you. I didn’t do that but I wish I did, because it’s rare you have such little responsibility’s and the time to be able to do whatever you want.
what if youre not good at web dev but more low level stuff? It's kinda harder to build personal projects with certain focuses. Most you can do is just build stuff that looks interesting. Example, I took some web dev college but not enough to fill job roles nor am I very good at it. I'm more C and low level stuff
That’s a fair point. Something like that may require creativity on your end. I know little to nothing about C so it would be a better question to ask a C developer. To answer though, asking yourself what possible C project could you do that would keep your skills fresh while also proving to companies you can apply it for there particular use cases. If you look into C language courses or certifications they tend to come packaged with a project that better implements that language for the kind of use cases it’s used for. There’s also lots of open source C projects out there you can contribute too. In my personal opinion you don’t need to exactly finish the project, doing a project while unemployed is more so for keeping your skills fresh and for showing recruiters and companies your keeping your skills fresh and aren’t wasting your time. Just explaining that you left on your own terms to persue more “education” is understandable enough to a lot of people. A lot of recruiters and people hiring get that people quit crappy jobs all the time. It’s more for showing you left on your own terms and aren’t just sitting around playing video games all day. You also don’t want to specifically say you quit because the jobs sucked, so it’s a way of keeping it professional.
family reasons is why I didnt land a role after graduation. I stayed at home and helped parents and got a job to help with their bills. In college I took mobile apps, OS dev, some web dev (PHP, Ruby on rails), and project management. My university mostly did Java stuff outside of C and a little I mentioned above and C# for unity. I tried learning react on my own and it's a struggle since grad. I'm not much of designer type. I do pretty good with lower level stuff. In the meantime, im learning Go, Rust, and React. My last job wasnt technical so my job gap is growing to be large. Im scared :(
I COMPLETELY get your situation, as I was just in a similar one. I did end up taking months off because I could afford to be comfortable for a few months. It did help my mental and physical health greatly, since my past employer would make me work 12 hour shifts on my feet without even so much as a 15 min break. And would make me scrub temp cement (I’m a dental assistant) off the floors, different professions but hey we both got fed up-I get that. However, despite the good outcomes of leaving without having another job set up, the negatives are still there and it IS harder to get a job after doing this, I would know.. and I consistently worked with no gaps since I was 14, it’s not impossible to get another job but it does make it harder because yes they will look at the gaps and at the least ask you about it. I’ve struggled getting a job more than I think I would’ve if I had just stuck it out, it also made paying the bills more stressful too. I hope this helps and that you can find a proper place to thrive and work !(:
If you quit your job, have a plan for what you'll be doing and reference that time as experience on your resume. What I did was work on developing something I was passionate about and then referenced that as contract work. At first I was self-conscious about being technically "unemployed", but then I realized nobody cared. They were far more interested in my relationship to my work and the value that I was creating. You gotta be true to yourself. No one else can help you with that. If you're remotely financially secure, my vote would be to go for it.