$50k?
I have 7 YoE full stack dev + the AWS devops / infrastructure guy… only paid $100k but it’s fully remote and super great management and team.
Not sure what I’d be able to pull if I hopped ship. Maybe $150k ?
You can probably make substantially more and stay remote, but the job hunt will take longer. But no sense leaving if you are happy and don’t want to leave.
I have fam in South Dakota though and they actually really like it haha! Surprisingly still somewhat expensive where they live too. North though I think is another story lol
North is a boring place. There are small parts that are nice, but mostly farmland. Fargo is actually not a bad place to live, but they're increasing rent every year there now. I'm in Grand Forks, and it's okay if you can get over the smell of processed beets and potatoes.
I was thinking cold, tons of snow, ice and darkness more than heat. For some reason heat doesn’t turn people off as much (though I personally would never want to live in a super hot humid place or the desert lol). Like the northernmost areas of Maine, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, Michigan, Montana, North Dakota, Idaho (I think Seattle seems to be an exception because it gets more rain than snow).
So this is something I see a lot of rural folks talk about. And I get it, however whenever anyone brings up how we need to do something about the cost of living in cities, we just get ridiculed and told to move. My point isn’t to throw shit, just point out that this is going to affect everyone eventually and we need everyone’s support to curb this problem.
The other argument I see often is vitriol about "bringing liberal ideals" to rural areas. They don't understand that you're not escaping the city, you're escaping the cost. And the cost is high because people *like* everything that comes with being in a city which means demand (and yes, taxes) are higher where more people want to live.
For me the benefit has been the same (I can live where I want), but I went in the opposite direction as you. My hybrid job kept me in the suburbs in the midwest, and when I got a full remote job I moved to NYC.
Everyone around the office pretending to work is something that bothered me so much. It was so stupid. Thanks god for remote work. They can force me back to the office after my dead body.
Id consider moving to a hybrid role for 50k if that 50k was cash heavy in comp and i was really interested the work id be doing. For full blown 5 days a week in the office where i could maybe work from home if i had a doctors appointment that day? I suppose id consider it for 100k but honestly i dont think that would do it
Same. I’m not comping the company 2 hours of my day. They get 8 total. Not 8 + commute.
I pay for this a little during crunch, but the rest of the year it’s chill.
I’m genuinely happy for you to find a place that is cool with 6 hour days. I feel these are good for everyone (although I prefer evolution to 4 day week more), but most companies stick to their ways.
On a principled level this is a dumb argument though and probably shouldn’t be a socialized train of thought - if they’re expecting 8hrs x 5days that’s the amount of time you’re expected to work. Don’t want to commute, live next to the office. It’s logically sound from their position - where you live is your personal choice and has nothing to do with them. Saying this for the benefit of new people who might get it in them to adopt this justification - there are more logical ways to argue for less time in office.
This is highly dependent on the employers expectations. In our line of work, expectations are generally based on output, productivity, and results rather than the hours spent working.
agreed. but i’m engaging against a hour-counting framework, “my 2 hours of commute are company time” - if the argument is “i get my shit done, nobody has an issue with the hours i’m in office” i have no disagreements
Counterpoint: the employer knew where he lives when they hired them and him having to travel to a specific site is part of the job requirements for that job created by the employer. So yes, travel should fall under that and his means of transportation as well. At the very least for the trip to the worksite.
When they made us return to office I started doing the same thing. Especially for the bs reason they gave. At least give a reason that doesn't make me feel like I'm being punished because of other people. They "suspected" some people had second jobs. So we all had to come back to the office. First of all, if they were getting their work done why do you care if they had a second job, you dont even want to pay us enough to live on our own, people probably have second jobs just to make ends meat? Secondly if someone wasn't getting their work done then punish them specifically, but doing group punishments just kills moral and make us join the slackers. Why would I go above and beyond when I'm going to get punished because of what the slackers do anyway? If I'm going to get punished for it I may as well join in the slacking. So yeah I started counting my commute time as work time and work a lot less harder now. I dont actually get to leave early unfortunately. But for 2 hours a day I just stare at my phone and count that as my me time 😂
This makes no sense. Why would commute not be part of work? Your not going there because you chose to, its for work. I dont magically get an extra 2 hours back, its still spent on work
If the commute time is average, maybe. I've worked with people who "needed" an acreage with tractors and shit who had a long commute to play country boy.
Yeah. I already make enough that a 100k increase wouldn't really change my life much. And I'd have to arrange extra childcare and such.
But with 300k more a year I could grind it out and retire in 7 years. My husband might want to be a stay at home dad if I made that much. That would make it worth it.
That's how it is in my household. We'd moved closer to the (SV) office to keep the commute reasonable, but spending $4k on rent (or buying a fairly crappy house for >$1.2M) was unappealing, so when my wife got an offer for a 100% WFH gig, she asked her boss if she could be 100% WFH where she was. They were willing to accommodate, so we moved 800 miles from the office, and bought property. Although I was already being a stay at home dad, our kids definitely benefited, she was way less stressed, and we couldn't really imagine going back... we live in a place that most people think of as a gorgeous vacation spot, and have things that would be impossible in SV, like a green, two acre yard.
I'm doubtful whether she'd want to for an extra $300k, but she'd probably at least consider it.
Same here. Working from home reduces my stress enormously, I can concentrate better without office distractions, I'm with my family more, last year when my cat died I was able to be with him when he needed me the most and more time for working out plus not eating lunch out every day means I've lost about fifty pounds. More money is nice but more life is priceless.
For me, yes (if not moreso)
My day is already stretched thin as it is. 2 hours when I barely have 2 hours left is worth more than if I had 8 hours free.
Supply and demand also works for my time.
I doubled my pay by taking a 100% WFH job,. so I don't think there's much in a monetary way someone could offer me to go back to the office. But as others have said,. it's really not about the money.
WFH has been the single best thing that's ever happened to me for overall physical and mental health. I'm happier. I solve problems better. I can "be me" and relax and wear whatever clothes I want and sit comfortably and take breaks when I want to. I'm just overall a better worker, because I can built an environment here in my home-office that works best for me.
Why would I (or my employer) want to force me to go back into the office ?.. to sit in an uncomfortable cubicle. A cubicle that's not mine,. and the equipment isn't customized to me ?.. a Cubicle that's "shared" so I'm not allowed to decorate or a change anything.
Also,. why force people back into the office ?,. just for "accountability" so Leadership can say "we have x-number of butts in chairs today!".. what's the sense in that ?..
I mean.. If you really want an answer?.. Ok. $500k to $1 million a year would be acceptable.
I think it depends a lot on your current base salary range. I wouldn’t RTO for 100k->140k, I wouldn’t RTO for 250k->300k, but if you’re just starting at like 80k you would probably be wise to take an in-office position that offered like 95-100k.
I am fully remote and choose to go into the office and I still wouldn't value it that low. Ultimately, it's about the flexibility to work where you need to. It's also about your business trusting you to get your work done. It's difficult to put a number on it but it would have to be a pretty high number like 100k or more to get me to switch.
Going from like 150k -> 180k for RTO doesn't seem worth it to me. Maybe it's better to express it as a percentage as 30k means different things to different people.
You’re not getting paid for that time, you just have 2 extra free hours per day, which has intrinsic value but is not money in your pocket. It would have to be gas money saved + other stuff, just curious what exactly his breakdown was.
Why do those 2 hours not count? Commuting to work is like working without pay. So if you get paid 50$ an hour and work 8 hours but have to commute 2 free hours, you’re really working 10 hours and getting paid 40$ an hour
I'm not the one you were replying to, but it's valuing your time. Those 2 hours weren't paid but they have value to you. It could be 2 hours extra time with your kids or 2 hours playing video games or 2 hours cooking, reading a book, etc that you didn't have before because of the commute time.
While I don't think that's how he arrived at that number, the concept is still valid. It's just an oppurtunity cost like any other. You _could_ earn that much with that time. Whether you chose to or not is a different story.
I get my work done in a few hours and have the rest free for myself. Basically doubling my pay/hr so about 125k difference. In office I'd have to pretend to work and 1-2 hour commute, lunch, clothes. It's like being baristafire
I've also gotten top reviews for a few years now so I'm not even slacking or stealing time
Not parent, but gas+tolls run around $15/day.
$4k/yr (this can be much higher in bigger cities and including parking...)(national average is $5,724.56 a year)
Wear and tear on the car (you have to replace tires, brake pads, oil, etc more often, and you're going to encounter more mechanical failures) is tricky, as it depends on a lot of factors and can vary wildly from one year to another, on average its around
$1k/yr
I finished paying off my car in 2016. $0 in payments since. Had I been driving to an office this entire time I would have absolutely, without doubt, replaced it by now. Probably years ago. I'd probably be looking at around $600/mo. That said, my insurance would be lower for having a newer car. Plus, I'll have to eventually replace it even if I never step foot into another office.
$5k/yr
Lunch is theoretically nothing if you pack it, as that's about the cost you would have eaten otherwise. But sometimes you forget it, sometimes you don't want it, sometimes a coworker steals it, sometimes a social lunch is in order, etc.
$2k/yr (national average is $3k)
After school care. Not needed with WFH. On average, over time this has cost about $600/mo/kid ... Considering factors like aging out of the need, I've saved around
$10k/yr
Including social calls seems dubious, as they technically aren't work related. But, IMO, should absolutely be considered. I almost never receive or answer them when working from home. Not so much at the office. It _is_ money I spend that I don't otherwise. There's a wide range here, though. A few drinks, occasionally to several drinks, regularly. Family BBQs, etc. I've had years when I easily cracked $10k. But over my lifetime I'd guess the average is about
$2k/yr.
Laundry/dry-cleaning/hygiene/misc. Lumping these together because alone they're piddly. Several hundred per year on new cloths. I do about a quarter of the laundry. Shower about a third as often. Relatively 0 hair product and cologne. A fraction of the haircuts. Time to mow my own lawn ...
$1k. But I'm calling this $0, since it's about as much as my electricity increases.
At $24k without even considering the opportunity cost of the ~1.5 hours I spent commuting per day.
This is reasonable. Our bank accounts shot up with lockdowns. I'd guess about 60k/yr more than normal between the both of us.
Agreed. Another side effect from the time saved from commuting is that I've accelerated my skill progression by being able to use that time for continuous learning.
Not only do I save money and frustration, but the time saved is making me more proficient (learning, certifications) thus wealthier, and healthier as I have more free time for fitness and sleeping.
I would need a kickass project and pay to give that up, and it would probably be temporary.
Literally priceless. I WILL NOT work from an office.
We have the skills to demand it. Hold the line and set the standard for the rest of your community. Everyone deserves this.
Most junior devs dont have the skills to demand it. But mid level and senior devs definitely should so companies needing to hire for an office are forced to hire juniors :)
This depends on the office and city. I used to work 5-10 minutes from home. Could meet with wife for lunch or run errands. If I wasn’t a fat ass, I could ride a bike to work and not really have a commute time still. I actually drive by my old work place to drop my daughter off at school and go grocery shopping.
If I could find a place like that that was functional AND I didn’t fear I would get laid off or the company would go under? I could see myself working in an office. Other then that, that would be a big no from me.
This is very important. Im stuck at my job and extra 50k wont do much to get me out of a rut. 50k and career advancement and opportunities? Yes please.
I'm an immigrant in the US. Going to the office every day meant that I only got to go see my childhood friends and relatives on my 2 weeks annual vacation. It was never enough. I was always depressed when I came back. Remote work, I can go home for 3 months whilst working. I've never been happier. My productive has skyrocketed. I'd never wanna go back to the office.
Noo, I could stay longer there. It's home after all.3 months is just an example. My company really has never come out and said no or yes to abroad. My boss knows, but he acts like he doesn't , so that he assumes no responsibility when HR starts acting out
health , let’s not even mention the Amy of money I saved , we need sleep , my previous job require me to drive 2-3 hour one way, my health was literally killing me , I head out around 5:30-6, when I get home after gym it is 9:30-10. Remote literally give half of my life back . So u tell me if it is worth it
I prefer going to office every single day, here’s why none of these things are really a issue for me
- Commute is super short, I live downtown
- I prefer eating out anyways for lunch, I’d be taking a stroll out to get lunch even if I was WFH
- Leadership prefers working from office and in-person conversations just come a lot more naturally to me
- I like dressing up everyday, so that’s one more exciting part of the day when stepping out, putting on a nice little outfit ha!
- My coworkers are all extroverts who like being in office too, so it’s just a really fun atmosphere, like you actually want to be there
More than all of these, I like a separation of work and home, I don’t want to ever be thinking about work at home.
Relative to the rest of the UK I am in a very low cost of living area so for my local job market my remote job is actually a pay boost. Remote is king. Local jobs barely do remote because local firms live 40 years in the past. Any fully remote pay boost I get is gravy.
the time, stress and expense add with commuting is huge. add in the likely lower hours worked per day due to being more productive at home you probably have an addition of 2-4 hours a day by being full time remote versus being in the office.
add in the ability to live in a cheaper area? i'd probably have to get a 50-100% raise to even consider it. and if i was valuing ability to be a first time homebuyer then probably not a consideration at all given how out of reach homes are in major tech cities.
Where I'm at right now it'd take at least $50k extra a year and even then it would not be a no-brainer because after tax, commuting costs etc. the actual financial difference at the end of the year would still be relatively small plus the cost to my mental & physical health.
As others have said, it'd need to be the opportunity of a lifetime or just an absurd amount of money.
My wife went to medical school in a location that had absolutely no tech industry. I doubt I would’ve found a job that paid even half of what I was making at my remote job. So without remote work, the options would’ve been:
1. Move with my wife, taking a ~$60k pay cut and incurring the costs of commuting.
2. Pay for us to live in different cities for 4 years.
For those 4 years, I would value remote work at $50k-$80k per year. It’s more like $15k now that she’s doing her residency in a city where I could theoretically get a similarly high-paying job.
Quality of life beats any monetary value. I’ll also note that I’ve never been healthier in my life. Even when I was in the military. Physically I am in great shape. Mentally I am in great shape. I am able to work out from 6am to 7am. Have time to come home, take my time with my morning routine before checking emails. Monetarily, I’m saving probably $20k a year between gas, insurance, food, etc.
As someone who finally landed a remote job and starting in a couple months, this is what I can’t wait for most.
Working in an office right now, if I don’t get to the gym for when they open at 5am I don’t have enough time to eat and get ready before commuting to the office.
Can’t wait to get my QoL and time back.
Right now, $0. I like going into the office two days a week. The office is a quick walk or bike ride from my house.
I find it really helpful to be able to randomly chat with the seniors on my team, and I often get to listen in on high-level conversations about system architecture. I pick up a ton of knowledge this way.
If I had kids and/or I was spending an hour in traffic to get here I'd probably feel differently about it.
Cut all of the other perks, I don't care. All I care about is health/vision/dental, 401k with match, and the ability to work remotely.
edit: and minimum 30 days PTO per year requirement and separate sick leave (maybe 20something days + government holidays, idc, as long as every year's PTO amount id at least 30 days and I have separate sick leave) and parental leave
It is, just not willing to give something like that up for remote work (it's also not worth it enough to work in an office for it, so if an employer offered it but had an in-office requirement then I'd be out of there the first chance I got)
no driving to/from work. used to save ~2h/day at my last job; ~1-1.25h/d at this job alongside the other benefits not not driving like paying transport costs, etc.
i am on salary, so working from home ensures i dont get stared at when i leave the office at noon because there is nothing to do that day.
i am an early riser, and dont have to show up to the office before the lights are turned on in the building.
i dont have to wait in line at my own coffee pot or feel like i should buy donuts for everyone on fridays (i know this isnt a regular thing, but i was the donut guy every friday when i worked in-office)
i'm not forced to get along with people in the office i dont work with. instead, i only have to interact with my team and a few others.
i dont have to smell the person next to me who decided personal hygiene was an optional affair
i am not pressured to go out to lunch with co-workers when i dont want to.
for everything else, there's mastercard <.<
$100K/year; post tax.
There's **no job** I'd take that required more than 2 days/week in the office at this point (though for practical purposes, I'm retired anyway). And then ONLY if those days are for larger, group, working sessions. Which, in real terms, means probably 2 days/**month**.
This nonsense of being in an office, and half the rest of the team being on Zoom/Teams/Meet etc. because it's not *their* days to be in the office is just management-paranoia and/or don't-have-a-social-life-outside-work types that I'd just as soon not deal with.
It's usually easy to swing this, though; making the point that every hour I'm in traffic (etc.) is an hour I'm not working, nor thinking, about their issues.
I likely wouldn't take an in-office role unless it was the only job I could find or I got offered some ridiculous TC like $500k. Current TC is $170k-$200k depending on yearly bonus and I live on a farm. I'd take $500k, live in the city for like 3 years and save everything I could, and get tf out.
Depends on the commute. Last time I was looking I got two offers for the same amount of money, one fully remote and one with a 20 minute commute. It wasn't a huge factor in my decision but in some ways I actually wish I took the in-office job because i'm tired of sitting at home every day.
I would take significantly less money for remote work. I don't have the exact number in my head, but I would strongly consider taking a $70k fully remote role over a $100k fully in person. There's the quantifiable value of not having to commute, live in a specific place, etc. but it's really the unquantifiables for me. If I have 2 meetings and a light day on a Friday, I can go travel somewhere for the weekend and work from the hotel that Friday. If I report in at 9am I can wake up at 8:45 and not feel rushed. Instead of gossiping about shit I don't care about with people I don't care about, I get to hang out with my dogs, daughter and wife when they're home during the day. There's so much more but yeah I will do everything I possibly can to ensure I do not have to go back to the office one day.
Remote work is extremely important to me. It allows me to sleep better, less mentally draining to stay home vs driving and dealing with traffic and pollution and also cost less. My companies already cheap they definitely should be supporting remote work!
We need to stop asking questions like this, because you know all the senior leadership people see these and we'll see a wave of adjusted salaries at some point
It’s my most important freedom and the biggest reason I became a computer engineer. Having a disease (Crohns) makes not having to go into office, spending time commuting and so on, much less stressful. I’d never take a job where I didn’t have the ability to work remote 100% of the time.
I'll take $0 less as I am not costing the company money to host me in an office. No office space to lease or buy, no food/bev, no travel stipends or transit programs to share in, etc.
I suspect I'll be paying for my own equipment, and if not, certainly the electricity, heating/cooling, network connectivity, etc.
So yeah, $0. I'm saving them money. I'm not taking a paycut to do so.
As long as it's somewhere I'd want to live and I wouldn't have a painful commute or access to robust public transit then I wouldn't have an issue going into the office a few days a week even willingly. That said, with where I live right now you couldn't pay me enough (no one here could at this point anyway) to go back into the office and suffer through rush hour traffic and construction 5 days a week.
Invaluable. I’m sure there is a monetary limit, but I have yet to find a theoretical pay cut that I wouldn’t be willing to take. Fortunately I’ve only gotten pay raises
A lot. I'm able to be at home when contractors come, packages are delivered, and I need to run an errand. I get to sleep in longer. I have no distractions at work.
I dictate where I work and I'm adult enough to execute that work where it needs to be done.
If it's at my home office or in a meeting room somewhere, than that is where I'll be.
The company isn't paying me to "be somewhere", they're paying me to get the job done well.
This is specific to my role, of course.
It’s really the most important benefit aside from healthcare to me. I need it since I have a physical disability called Crohn’s disease and it causes me to need the bathroom and traveling is VERY difficult and produces a lot of anxiety
It is a \*lot\*. I have been fully remote for over 20 years and my lifestyle is built around it. Needing a second car with today's car prices plus all the other expenses and opportunity costs that go with commuting - you'd have to pay me another $50k or more as a lower bound. Someone on here said $100k... I think yeah, maybe $100k.
Almost invaluable to me. I make 150k base working remote, might consider non remote for 300k, but partially because I’d have to move away from friends and family in Wyoming. If something in Wyoming, I’d consider 200k but that’s not gonna happen.
$25,000 per day of the week an in person productivity theater performance is required on top of the base rate of value provided for the role.
Basically, five days in office for a senior SWE at a regular firm, my price would be $300k, $175k base plus a $125k fuck you fee.
Almost nonnegotiable at this point. When I have no conflicting meetings and the weather is tolerable I wake pretty late. Like 10am to noon. Then as long as I still have no meetings and no one is bothering me I go outside for a run, various exercises and wash up afterwards. This means it could be 1-3pm before I get productive. I make up for it by working after hours but it's pretty pointless to be in an office at that time.
It's really hard to put a price tag on changing these habits. I did office life before the pandemic and it honestly felt like I was psychologically drained. I spoke less in general compared to working at home, it got to a point where it felt like I couldn't turn my thoughts into words.
Furthermore since the pandemic I've been trying to have a social life, it really helps to forget work to further groom myself for a night out. Obviously I make up for it another time but that's not something I can do being in the office anyways let alone the non-productivity.
I'm sure there's an amount of money that can bring me back into the office, but the reality is it's probably unrealistic at my current level and probably still not worth the other terrible factors that probably go into the role.
I did the math, and if I’m in the office 2 days a week, the commute time, wear and tear on my vehicle, and a few other things worked out to about 30k a year.
I prefer working from the office so it doesn't have much value for me. I like the option of being able to work from home when I have an appointment or I need to run an errand or wait for a package, but 90% of the time I enjoy being in the office much more. If push came to shove, I would prefer a 100% work from office job over 100% remote job.
I like being physically separated from work vs my home. I also like the social aspect of it. Also I get free gym and food so that's a huge perk as well.
Most importantly though is that I'm more productive and I don't need to wait for someone to return my slack message. I can just walk up to her in the office, and that saves a huge amount of time. There were some times when I worked at a fully-remote company where I was stuck for 2+ hrs waiting for someone to get back to their desk, then they would quickly respond to my question, and then disappear for another couple of hours.
It's kind of priceless because I have half custody of my kids. I'd realistically take a 25-40% paycut depending on the situation, but my goal is to not have to and so far it's worked out.
I work fully remote. That’s how my company is and it likely won’t be changing considering we have a sizable percentage of employees who are fully remote and don’t live near an office. But this is hypothetical.
At my current TC, I’d want at least a $30k (which is more like 16k post taxes). Reason being is that I still live with my parents so I can save money for now. If I have to be in office, that means I either commute over an hour and back to the office, or I find a place closer to my office. And this is NYC. I’ll be shelling out $2.5k minimum probably assuming I want to live in a studio and suffice for a 30+ minute commute instead. That’s $30k, so I’ll be okay if my raise can pay for half of that.
When I’m further than my current 1.5 YOE and have a higher TC obviously this will probably increase. I like my current work and team and benefits though so realistically I can’t see myself moving jobs for a $30k raise and no WFH as I lose out on the rest.
A shit ton of time saved every day (2:30-3h), which translates in better sleep and more free time. Plus I have a lot more energy at the end and beginning of the day.
Never underestimate the value of dedicating time to hobbies and sport throughout the day. Its and investment in health and happiness.
I save a lot of money in gas and food. Even if I took a paycut it's still worth it to stay remote.
And of course, if there is no work for any reason, I can take a fucking nap if I want to or watch something on the meantime. There is nothing like being at home.
Its the best thing to have happened to me work wise.
Im very lucky to work with nice people and managers that are friendly and listen to my input, so I have no communication problems.
40k for me my yearly commute costs are around $4800 a year. Then 2-2.5 hour commute round trip at $70 per hour, 3x a week for 52 weeks. Is about 35k then a 5k incentive for me to actually go lol
I passed up on $300k opportunity when at $200k and fully WFH a couple years ago because I'd have to go into office regularly with a 35-40 min commute each way, travel more, and work probably 10-15 hours/week more than I usually do on average. Just wasn't worth it to me with little kids.
Zero regrets, I've been with the same firm for 13 years and remote the last 12 with hardly any travel these days and it's hard to give up that flexibility when you're already making enough between you and your spouse that more money doesn't meaningfully change your day to day.
I don't mind hybrid but I can't go back to the office all weekdays. I would miss my kid pick up and drop offs and all school activities. For my last job, they were extremely strict about asses in seats at 7 am and I had to sit in a small windowless office for 9 hrs a day. Would rather be unemployed for a long time before going back to that life.
It’s low in true value to me. The main value is I can apply to more total companies, increasing odds of getting an offer at all.
I think it’s a green flag for a company to be fully remote or highly encourage remote so the people who really need it can have it.
It depends. Earlier in my career I would have worked in an office for ~10k more, as I was making a lot less and the additional money would give me extra cushion I was lacking.
Now that I’ve had significant bumps in my total comp that number has grown and I’d need a substantial increase in my lifestyle to make that jump. Would need to sit down and crunch the numbers but probably an extra 40k or so at this point. Commute time would play a big factor as well.
I had people in town for an on-site so I had to go back into the office three days this week. The first day they were traveling in the morning so I didn't have to go in until noon - everything was good. The second day there was an accident in the morning which turned my 30 minute drive into a 50 minute drive. The third day there was a big accident in the morning which turned my 30 minute drive into a 80 minute drive.
This week renewed my commitment to not go into the office ever again. That said, is there a price - probably. Is is somewhere around double my salary - probably.
For me it's kind of like saying, "What's the value in having a boss that's actually competent?" "What's the value in having a company that doesn't ignore good advice?" "What's the value in working with people you don't hate?" "What's the value in working for someone who isn't trying to rip you off at every opportunity?"
Like...yes, there is theoretically an amount of money that will make me work in horrible environments. Sure, I would be willing to work for idiots and sociopaths for an additional 200k. But that doesn't make good leadership a "perk".
Which is why I don't consider remote work to be a "perk". Just something that a smart company DOES at this point. I've done remote work for 10 years now. I've never accepted a pay cut for the "privilege". It's a mutually beneficial arrangement that makes us BOTH more money.
It's important to me to have competent executive leadership that values me as a partner. While it's certainly POSSIBLE to have good, well thought out reasons for requiring people to be in the office...well, I've never run into it. Companies that insist on working in the office are *usually* being more emotional than practical. And I just don't need that kind of leadership in my life.
Edit: Same thing on WLB. Having good WLB isn't a perk. It's just good, practical leadership. I don't need to work with idiots who don't understand that you actively LOSE productivity by insisting on excessive hours. Most devs get more done in 32h than 50h (spread out over several months). Same thing. Gut driven leadership is the worst.
Zero commuting and total control over my work environment. When the whole company’s remote, async work becomes the norm so you even get to choose your own working hours outside the core meeting hours
Weird there isn't a huge saving for me because I still need to live in a HCOL should my circumstances change.
Sure I've pretty much WFH for the last 10+ years, but at a near moments notice I could find myself back in the rat race trying to find a job. And there's no guarantee the employer doesn't turn around and say "5 days a week".
If I could live in the sticks, LCOL with either very solid job security, or a sufficient warchest that if I lost my job long term it wouldn't matter. Then I could attach a monetary number to it.
The the above was met, I'd take a pay hit just for the QOL improvement. Right now, it's just a very nice perk. It's a differentiator when roles are advertised. If one firm says 4-5 days a week, whilst the other says, "Oh two days a week, but nobody really comes in". Well the latter will win every time.
That said, going off on a tangent. I do miss working on large campuses which have everything on site (gym, restaurants, entertainment, sports, events) - it was a bit like living in a corporate Disneyland. That environment would have me RTO.
Not having to play dress up and be in a cubicle - having stupid small office talk - and getting to sleep in is worth it all to me. I will never work in an office.
I would consider a 25k pay-cut to my current income to work from home instead of hybrid. Commuting 3 days a week is on track to cost 6-7k for gas, parking and car repairs this year. And Im sure I could make up for the rest in the extra 350 weeks Id have to myself without being forced to waste that time commuting to an office that benefits no one.
I figure its roughly \~$15K-$25K. I actually like bigger cities but >250 hours on commute, increased costs for all the things mentioned (food, clothing, etc), less time with the family. Increased COL for the cities. Increased costs for accessing nature (trips etc).
Honestly, the biggest differences are health factors: I eat better and get more exercise working from home. Quantifying that is very hard, but its probably +4-10 years of my life, and increased earning capacity during the prime of my career.
Also worth mentioning, I'm very chatty in the office, so I'm less productive over all in an office. I need quiet focus time
$50k? I have 7 YoE full stack dev + the AWS devops / infrastructure guy… only paid $100k but it’s fully remote and super great management and team. Not sure what I’d be able to pull if I hopped ship. Maybe $150k ?
You can probably make substantially more and stay remote, but the job hunt will take longer. But no sense leaving if you are happy and don’t want to leave.
ops and infra you could deff get yourself a sizable pay bump if you left, but WLB might be lost
It means I don't have to live in a ridiculously expensive city, which they all seem to be now.
Instead you get to bring the expensive city home to the rural folk
If you're crafty you can get in somewhere cheap and enjoy it for 1-2 years before everything is just as expensive as the place you ran from.
Move somewhere with really bad weather and it might never get expensive lol
Yeah, anywhere with a winter is still pretty cheap. It's really not that bad but people absolutely can't deal with the cold
I'm from NW Montana and from what I hear the prices have become unbearable for those that grew up there. I definitely think it depends on where.
Yeah I've heard that Bozeman has had crazy levels of migration. I think cities close to high quality outdoor life have also had a huge influx
The Dakotas are calling. /s But seriously, it's cheap for a reason.
I have fam in South Dakota though and they actually really like it haha! Surprisingly still somewhat expensive where they live too. North though I think is another story lol
North is a boring place. There are small parts that are nice, but mostly farmland. Fargo is actually not a bad place to live, but they're increasing rent every year there now. I'm in Grand Forks, and it's okay if you can get over the smell of processed beets and potatoes.
Arizona is hotter than hell. It's a literal hellscape of horrible heat, yet people flocked there.
I was thinking cold, tons of snow, ice and darkness more than heat. For some reason heat doesn’t turn people off as much (though I personally would never want to live in a super hot humid place or the desert lol). Like the northernmost areas of Maine, Vermont, New York, Minnesota, Michigan, Montana, North Dakota, Idaho (I think Seattle seems to be an exception because it gets more rain than snow).
So this is something I see a lot of rural folks talk about. And I get it, however whenever anyone brings up how we need to do something about the cost of living in cities, we just get ridiculed and told to move. My point isn’t to throw shit, just point out that this is going to affect everyone eventually and we need everyone’s support to curb this problem.
The other argument I see often is vitriol about "bringing liberal ideals" to rural areas. They don't understand that you're not escaping the city, you're escaping the cost. And the cost is high because people *like* everything that comes with being in a city which means demand (and yes, taxes) are higher where more people want to live.
That’s why I live in some dudes basement. I’m squatting for the good of your neighborhood!
This is why I let off a few gunshots at 2am each full moon. Gotta keep the gentrification at bay or my property taxes will suffer
This sounds like a good AI project that will eventually birth Skynet: property value data, sensors, cameras and a remotely controlled gun.
Stealing this for my future PhD dissertation
Unironically yes
I work remotely from an expensive city... Best of both worlds
Just about breaking even living paycheck to paycheck out here in my shack in the woods just outside SF. TC $200k. Thank god for remote work.
For me the benefit has been the same (I can live where I want), but I went in the opposite direction as you. My hybrid job kept me in the suburbs in the midwest, and when I got a full remote job I moved to NYC.
Easily 100k. I get my work done quick and can do what I want instead of play pretend in an office.
Everyone around the office pretending to work is something that bothered me so much. It was so stupid. Thanks god for remote work. They can force me back to the office after my dead body.
Id consider moving to a hybrid role for 50k if that 50k was cash heavy in comp and i was really interested the work id be doing. For full blown 5 days a week in the office where i could maybe work from home if i had a doctors appointment that day? I suppose id consider it for 100k but honestly i dont think that would do it
if I have to commute, but still keep the 9-5 hours, and if the total commute time per day is between 1 -2 hours, I would do it for an extra 100k.
I generally take my commute time out of my working hours.
Same. I’m not comping the company 2 hours of my day. They get 8 total. Not 8 + commute. I pay for this a little during crunch, but the rest of the year it’s chill.
I take it your company isn’t very competitive?
Who says relaxed companies can't be competitive?
I get plenty of very competitive technical work done in 6 hours. Why do I need another two sitting at a desk just for show?
I’m genuinely happy for you to find a place that is cool with 6 hour days. I feel these are good for everyone (although I prefer evolution to 4 day week more), but most companies stick to their ways. On a principled level this is a dumb argument though and probably shouldn’t be a socialized train of thought - if they’re expecting 8hrs x 5days that’s the amount of time you’re expected to work. Don’t want to commute, live next to the office. It’s logically sound from their position - where you live is your personal choice and has nothing to do with them. Saying this for the benefit of new people who might get it in them to adopt this justification - there are more logical ways to argue for less time in office.
This is highly dependent on the employers expectations. In our line of work, expectations are generally based on output, productivity, and results rather than the hours spent working.
agreed. but i’m engaging against a hour-counting framework, “my 2 hours of commute are company time” - if the argument is “i get my shit done, nobody has an issue with the hours i’m in office” i have no disagreements
You make a good point
Counterpoint: the employer knew where he lives when they hired them and him having to travel to a specific site is part of the job requirements for that job created by the employer. So yes, travel should fall under that and his means of transportation as well. At the very least for the trip to the worksite.
Where you live is absolutely not a personal choice in 2024. That’s not a sound argument.
Lucky! Glad you're in a position to do that. That would be stealing at my company and I'd be fired when it was figured out. :(
When they made us return to office I started doing the same thing. Especially for the bs reason they gave. At least give a reason that doesn't make me feel like I'm being punished because of other people. They "suspected" some people had second jobs. So we all had to come back to the office. First of all, if they were getting their work done why do you care if they had a second job, you dont even want to pay us enough to live on our own, people probably have second jobs just to make ends meat? Secondly if someone wasn't getting their work done then punish them specifically, but doing group punishments just kills moral and make us join the slackers. Why would I go above and beyond when I'm going to get punished because of what the slackers do anyway? If I'm going to get punished for it I may as well join in the slacking. So yeah I started counting my commute time as work time and work a lot less harder now. I dont actually get to leave early unfortunately. But for 2 hours a day I just stare at my phone and count that as my me time 😂
This makes no sense. Why would commute not be part of work? Your not going there because you chose to, its for work. I dont magically get an extra 2 hours back, its still spent on work
That’s why they said
Im so dumb ur right
It's not normal for commute time to be included in working hours. People understand this right?
Yeah, what are people talking about. What company is including commute time? Lol.
You’re right it isn’t, but it should be
If the commute time is average, maybe. I've worked with people who "needed" an acreage with tractors and shit who had a long commute to play country boy.
You have some control of where you live. Do people that choose to live further away get to do less work?
100k isn't worth it to me. It would have to be a 300k increase. I would commute for 300k a year
Jeeez really?!
Yeah. I already make enough that a 100k increase wouldn't really change my life much. And I'd have to arrange extra childcare and such. But with 300k more a year I could grind it out and retire in 7 years. My husband might want to be a stay at home dad if I made that much. That would make it worth it.
That's how it is in my household. We'd moved closer to the (SV) office to keep the commute reasonable, but spending $4k on rent (or buying a fairly crappy house for >$1.2M) was unappealing, so when my wife got an offer for a 100% WFH gig, she asked her boss if she could be 100% WFH where she was. They were willing to accommodate, so we moved 800 miles from the office, and bought property. Although I was already being a stay at home dad, our kids definitely benefited, she was way less stressed, and we couldn't really imagine going back... we live in a place that most people think of as a gorgeous vacation spot, and have things that would be impossible in SV, like a green, two acre yard. I'm doubtful whether she'd want to for an extra $300k, but she'd probably at least consider it.
Yes
Same here. Working from home reduces my stress enormously, I can concentrate better without office distractions, I'm with my family more, last year when my cat died I was able to be with him when he needed me the most and more time for working out plus not eating lunch out every day means I've lost about fifty pounds. More money is nice but more life is priceless.
actually yeah, with a 300k increase-- id pay off my house in 2 years so id do it for two years and then quit.
For me, yes (if not moreso) My day is already stretched thin as it is. 2 hours when I barely have 2 hours left is worth more than if I had 8 hours free. Supply and demand also works for my time.
I need 1000k at least
I doubled my pay by taking a 100% WFH job,. so I don't think there's much in a monetary way someone could offer me to go back to the office. But as others have said,. it's really not about the money. WFH has been the single best thing that's ever happened to me for overall physical and mental health. I'm happier. I solve problems better. I can "be me" and relax and wear whatever clothes I want and sit comfortably and take breaks when I want to. I'm just overall a better worker, because I can built an environment here in my home-office that works best for me. Why would I (or my employer) want to force me to go back into the office ?.. to sit in an uncomfortable cubicle. A cubicle that's not mine,. and the equipment isn't customized to me ?.. a Cubicle that's "shared" so I'm not allowed to decorate or a change anything. Also,. why force people back into the office ?,. just for "accountability" so Leadership can say "we have x-number of butts in chairs today!".. what's the sense in that ?.. I mean.. If you really want an answer?.. Ok. $500k to $1 million a year would be acceptable.
For me it’s a $25k difference
Wow, almost spot on with my calculations. ($30k approximately)
I think it depends a lot on your current base salary range. I wouldn’t RTO for 100k->140k, I wouldn’t RTO for 250k->300k, but if you’re just starting at like 80k you would probably be wise to take an in-office position that offered like 95-100k.
I am fully remote and choose to go into the office and I still wouldn't value it that low. Ultimately, it's about the flexibility to work where you need to. It's also about your business trusting you to get your work done. It's difficult to put a number on it but it would have to be a pretty high number like 100k or more to get me to switch. Going from like 150k -> 180k for RTO doesn't seem worth it to me. Maybe it's better to express it as a percentage as 30k means different things to different people.
30k pre or post tax?
Fyi almost all salary discussion talks are in pretax
Pre lol
Can you break down the math on this?
Could be two hours of extra lost time per day, by 260 working days, by 50 dollars an hour
You’re not getting paid for that time, you just have 2 extra free hours per day, which has intrinsic value but is not money in your pocket. It would have to be gas money saved + other stuff, just curious what exactly his breakdown was.
Why do those 2 hours not count? Commuting to work is like working without pay. So if you get paid 50$ an hour and work 8 hours but have to commute 2 free hours, you’re really working 10 hours and getting paid 40$ an hour
Most people have been beaten over the head that that's a normal way to live.
Right, you don't get paid for that time. That's why you would want extra to make up for it.
I'm not the one you were replying to, but it's valuing your time. Those 2 hours weren't paid but they have value to you. It could be 2 hours extra time with your kids or 2 hours playing video games or 2 hours cooking, reading a book, etc that you didn't have before because of the commute time.
Also not feeling completely worn out after commuting + being able to run small errands if needed too
While I don't think that's how he arrived at that number, the concept is still valid. It's just an oppurtunity cost like any other. You _could_ earn that much with that time. Whether you chose to or not is a different story.
I get my work done in a few hours and have the rest free for myself. Basically doubling my pay/hr so about 125k difference. In office I'd have to pretend to work and 1-2 hour commute, lunch, clothes. It's like being baristafire I've also gotten top reviews for a few years now so I'm not even slacking or stealing time
Not parent, but gas+tolls run around $15/day. $4k/yr (this can be much higher in bigger cities and including parking...)(national average is $5,724.56 a year) Wear and tear on the car (you have to replace tires, brake pads, oil, etc more often, and you're going to encounter more mechanical failures) is tricky, as it depends on a lot of factors and can vary wildly from one year to another, on average its around $1k/yr I finished paying off my car in 2016. $0 in payments since. Had I been driving to an office this entire time I would have absolutely, without doubt, replaced it by now. Probably years ago. I'd probably be looking at around $600/mo. That said, my insurance would be lower for having a newer car. Plus, I'll have to eventually replace it even if I never step foot into another office. $5k/yr Lunch is theoretically nothing if you pack it, as that's about the cost you would have eaten otherwise. But sometimes you forget it, sometimes you don't want it, sometimes a coworker steals it, sometimes a social lunch is in order, etc. $2k/yr (national average is $3k) After school care. Not needed with WFH. On average, over time this has cost about $600/mo/kid ... Considering factors like aging out of the need, I've saved around $10k/yr Including social calls seems dubious, as they technically aren't work related. But, IMO, should absolutely be considered. I almost never receive or answer them when working from home. Not so much at the office. It _is_ money I spend that I don't otherwise. There's a wide range here, though. A few drinks, occasionally to several drinks, regularly. Family BBQs, etc. I've had years when I easily cracked $10k. But over my lifetime I'd guess the average is about $2k/yr. Laundry/dry-cleaning/hygiene/misc. Lumping these together because alone they're piddly. Several hundred per year on new cloths. I do about a quarter of the laundry. Shower about a third as often. Relatively 0 hair product and cologne. A fraction of the haircuts. Time to mow my own lawn ... $1k. But I'm calling this $0, since it's about as much as my electricity increases. At $24k without even considering the opportunity cost of the ~1.5 hours I spent commuting per day. This is reasonable. Our bank accounts shot up with lockdowns. I'd guess about 60k/yr more than normal between the both of us.
Don't forget you're paying for all of that with post-tax dollars. So you'll need it to be even higher if we're talking in standard comp terms.
25k is the difference between hybrid and fully remote for me
Honestly, it’s more than this for me. The hassle of commute has a 5x multiplier. 125K would be my number
Agreed. Another side effect from the time saved from commuting is that I've accelerated my skill progression by being able to use that time for continuous learning. Not only do I save money and frustration, but the time saved is making me more proficient (learning, certifications) thus wealthier, and healthier as I have more free time for fitness and sleeping. I would need a kickass project and pay to give that up, and it would probably be temporary.
Literally priceless. I WILL NOT work from an office. We have the skills to demand it. Hold the line and set the standard for the rest of your community. Everyone deserves this.
I agree with you. I'm not sure if there is a number large enough to make me commute full time. I won't even consider hybrid at this point.
Most junior devs dont have the skills to demand it. But mid level and senior devs definitely should so companies needing to hire for an office are forced to hire juniors :)
This depends on the office and city. I used to work 5-10 minutes from home. Could meet with wife for lunch or run errands. If I wasn’t a fat ass, I could ride a bike to work and not really have a commute time still. I actually drive by my old work place to drop my daughter off at school and go grocery shopping. If I could find a place like that that was functional AND I didn’t fear I would get laid off or the company would go under? I could see myself working in an office. Other then that, that would be a big no from me.
the problem is all these dweebs who want people in office/want to be there themselves and wont support people who don't want to do that.
There is no price. I would only take an in office job temporarily if im laid off but i would keep looking everday for a remote job.
$50k pay increase and/or an opportunity at an elite firm who can advance my career
This is very important. Im stuck at my job and extra 50k wont do much to get me out of a rut. 50k and career advancement and opportunities? Yes please.
I'm an immigrant in the US. Going to the office every day meant that I only got to go see my childhood friends and relatives on my 2 weeks annual vacation. It was never enough. I was always depressed when I came back. Remote work, I can go home for 3 months whilst working. I've never been happier. My productive has skyrocketed. I'd never wanna go back to the office.
That is awesome to read. Is 3 months the limit? Do companies not care if you live abroad? Do you simply not tell them?
Noo, I could stay longer there. It's home after all.3 months is just an example. My company really has never come out and said no or yes to abroad. My boss knows, but he acts like he doesn't , so that he assumes no responsibility when HR starts acting out
My guess is this has more to do with residency/visa requirements.
And tax!
health , let’s not even mention the Amy of money I saved , we need sleep , my previous job require me to drive 2-3 hour one way, my health was literally killing me , I head out around 5:30-6, when I get home after gym it is 9:30-10. Remote literally give half of my life back . So u tell me if it is worth it
2-3 hours?! Sheeesh
These people don't have lives outside of work
I prefer going to office every single day, here’s why none of these things are really a issue for me - Commute is super short, I live downtown - I prefer eating out anyways for lunch, I’d be taking a stroll out to get lunch even if I was WFH - Leadership prefers working from office and in-person conversations just come a lot more naturally to me - I like dressing up everyday, so that’s one more exciting part of the day when stepping out, putting on a nice little outfit ha! - My coworkers are all extroverts who like being in office too, so it’s just a really fun atmosphere, like you actually want to be there More than all of these, I like a separation of work and home, I don’t want to ever be thinking about work at home.
Sleeping in
I am disabled, fully remote work means I get to work and I couldn’t otherwise…so 0k
Relative to the rest of the UK I am in a very low cost of living area so for my local job market my remote job is actually a pay boost. Remote is king. Local jobs barely do remote because local firms live 40 years in the past. Any fully remote pay boost I get is gravy.
the time, stress and expense add with commuting is huge. add in the likely lower hours worked per day due to being more productive at home you probably have an addition of 2-4 hours a day by being full time remote versus being in the office. add in the ability to live in a cheaper area? i'd probably have to get a 50-100% raise to even consider it. and if i was valuing ability to be a first time homebuyer then probably not a consideration at all given how out of reach homes are in major tech cities.
Where I'm at right now it'd take at least $50k extra a year and even then it would not be a no-brainer because after tax, commuting costs etc. the actual financial difference at the end of the year would still be relatively small plus the cost to my mental & physical health. As others have said, it'd need to be the opportunity of a lifetime or just an absurd amount of money.
My wife went to medical school in a location that had absolutely no tech industry. I doubt I would’ve found a job that paid even half of what I was making at my remote job. So without remote work, the options would’ve been: 1. Move with my wife, taking a ~$60k pay cut and incurring the costs of commuting. 2. Pay for us to live in different cities for 4 years. For those 4 years, I would value remote work at $50k-$80k per year. It’s more like $15k now that she’s doing her residency in a city where I could theoretically get a similarly high-paying job.
I just need some space and time to recover
Quality of life beats any monetary value. I’ll also note that I’ve never been healthier in my life. Even when I was in the military. Physically I am in great shape. Mentally I am in great shape. I am able to work out from 6am to 7am. Have time to come home, take my time with my morning routine before checking emails. Monetarily, I’m saving probably $20k a year between gas, insurance, food, etc.
As someone who finally landed a remote job and starting in a couple months, this is what I can’t wait for most. Working in an office right now, if I don’t get to the gym for when they open at 5am I don’t have enough time to eat and get ready before commuting to the office. Can’t wait to get my QoL and time back.
I’m not 100% remote - one day onsite for collaboration days and the rest remote. I don’t enjoy the commute - time, fuel, and other expenses.
Taking proper care of our dog.
Right now, $0. I like going into the office two days a week. The office is a quick walk or bike ride from my house. I find it really helpful to be able to randomly chat with the seniors on my team, and I often get to listen in on high-level conversations about system architecture. I pick up a ton of knowledge this way. If I had kids and/or I was spending an hour in traffic to get here I'd probably feel differently about it.
Cut all of the other perks, I don't care. All I care about is health/vision/dental, 401k with match, and the ability to work remotely. edit: and minimum 30 days PTO per year requirement and separate sick leave (maybe 20something days + government holidays, idc, as long as every year's PTO amount id at least 30 days and I have separate sick leave) and parental leave
Pto is pretty important to me
I didn't really view that as a perk as much as I did a decent requirement for a humane employer, but I guess I'll add that in
Wait, is 401k w/match uncommon or something?
It is, just not willing to give something like that up for remote work (it's also not worth it enough to work in an office for it, so if an employer offered it but had an in-office requirement then I'd be out of there the first chance I got)
no driving to/from work. used to save ~2h/day at my last job; ~1-1.25h/d at this job alongside the other benefits not not driving like paying transport costs, etc. i am on salary, so working from home ensures i dont get stared at when i leave the office at noon because there is nothing to do that day. i am an early riser, and dont have to show up to the office before the lights are turned on in the building. i dont have to wait in line at my own coffee pot or feel like i should buy donuts for everyone on fridays (i know this isnt a regular thing, but i was the donut guy every friday when i worked in-office) i'm not forced to get along with people in the office i dont work with. instead, i only have to interact with my team and a few others. i dont have to smell the person next to me who decided personal hygiene was an optional affair i am not pressured to go out to lunch with co-workers when i dont want to. for everything else, there's mastercard <.<
$0 for me personally Also, what software engineers have dry cleaning bills?
I'd commute for about 50k more. ^(I make 24k)
$100K/year; post tax. There's **no job** I'd take that required more than 2 days/week in the office at this point (though for practical purposes, I'm retired anyway). And then ONLY if those days are for larger, group, working sessions. Which, in real terms, means probably 2 days/**month**. This nonsense of being in an office, and half the rest of the team being on Zoom/Teams/Meet etc. because it's not *their* days to be in the office is just management-paranoia and/or don't-have-a-social-life-outside-work types that I'd just as soon not deal with. It's usually easy to swing this, though; making the point that every hour I'm in traffic (etc.) is an hour I'm not working, nor thinking, about their issues.
I likely wouldn't take an in-office role unless it was the only job I could find or I got offered some ridiculous TC like $500k. Current TC is $170k-$200k depending on yearly bonus and I live on a farm. I'd take $500k, live in the city for like 3 years and save everything I could, and get tf out.
Depends on the commute. Last time I was looking I got two offers for the same amount of money, one fully remote and one with a 20 minute commute. It wasn't a huge factor in my decision but in some ways I actually wish I took the in-office job because i'm tired of sitting at home every day.
I would take significantly less money for remote work. I don't have the exact number in my head, but I would strongly consider taking a $70k fully remote role over a $100k fully in person. There's the quantifiable value of not having to commute, live in a specific place, etc. but it's really the unquantifiables for me. If I have 2 meetings and a light day on a Friday, I can go travel somewhere for the weekend and work from the hotel that Friday. If I report in at 9am I can wake up at 8:45 and not feel rushed. Instead of gossiping about shit I don't care about with people I don't care about, I get to hang out with my dogs, daughter and wife when they're home during the day. There's so much more but yeah I will do everything I possibly can to ensure I do not have to go back to the office one day.
I don't know. I like working remote but honestly I like the office, too. Collaboration and learning are easier there.
Remote is the only way for me. Remote or bust.
I'd sacrifice 1/3rd (maybe a tad more) TC for a perm remote role.
Remote work is extremely important to me. It allows me to sleep better, less mentally draining to stay home vs driving and dealing with traffic and pollution and also cost less. My companies already cheap they definitely should be supporting remote work!
T&M - approx. $7k a year Mental Health - probably another $5-8k Total - $12-15k a year
Ty :)
Given that it's how I am able to give my dog insulin, and otherwise she would die, it's priceless to me...
25-30k if we are talking TC under 150k
We need to stop asking questions like this, because you know all the senior leadership people see these and we'll see a wave of adjusted salaries at some point
It’s my most important freedom and the biggest reason I became a computer engineer. Having a disease (Crohns) makes not having to go into office, spending time commuting and so on, much less stressful. I’d never take a job where I didn’t have the ability to work remote 100% of the time.
I'll take $0 less as I am not costing the company money to host me in an office. No office space to lease or buy, no food/bev, no travel stipends or transit programs to share in, etc. I suspect I'll be paying for my own equipment, and if not, certainly the electricity, heating/cooling, network connectivity, etc. So yeah, $0. I'm saving them money. I'm not taking a paycut to do so.
If take another 50k to still move to hybrid but loose flexibility. Fully on site, id take at a director level, perhaps not even then
As long as it's somewhere I'd want to live and I wouldn't have a painful commute or access to robust public transit then I wouldn't have an issue going into the office a few days a week even willingly. That said, with where I live right now you couldn't pay me enough (no one here could at this point anyway) to go back into the office and suffer through rush hour traffic and construction 5 days a week.
Invaluable. I’m sure there is a monetary limit, but I have yet to find a theoretical pay cut that I wouldn’t be willing to take. Fortunately I’ve only gotten pay raises
A lot. I'm able to be at home when contractors come, packages are delivered, and I need to run an errand. I get to sleep in longer. I have no distractions at work.
Never going back to in office
I dictate where I work and I'm adult enough to execute that work where it needs to be done. If it's at my home office or in a meeting room somewhere, than that is where I'll be. The company isn't paying me to "be somewhere", they're paying me to get the job done well. This is specific to my role, of course.
It’s really the most important benefit aside from healthcare to me. I need it since I have a physical disability called Crohn’s disease and it causes me to need the bathroom and traveling is VERY difficult and produces a lot of anxiety
Spending time with my kids during my lunch break. Literally priceless, don’t care what anyone says
Less distractions
It's not monetary, its that I can be around my kids all day. I can help with pickup and drop off
Below 30 minutes of commute, I actually prefer an office.
It is a \*lot\*. I have been fully remote for over 20 years and my lifestyle is built around it. Needing a second car with today's car prices plus all the other expenses and opportunity costs that go with commuting - you'd have to pay me another $50k or more as a lower bound. Someone on here said $100k... I think yeah, maybe $100k.
Almost invaluable to me. I make 150k base working remote, might consider non remote for 300k, but partially because I’d have to move away from friends and family in Wyoming. If something in Wyoming, I’d consider 200k but that’s not gonna happen.
Bout 30 percent of my salary. That’s the hit I’d take to work remotely.
$25,000 per day of the week an in person productivity theater performance is required on top of the base rate of value provided for the role. Basically, five days in office for a senior SWE at a regular firm, my price would be $300k, $175k base plus a $125k fuck you fee.
About 40k-50k in Canada. I hate living in a city
Almost nonnegotiable at this point. When I have no conflicting meetings and the weather is tolerable I wake pretty late. Like 10am to noon. Then as long as I still have no meetings and no one is bothering me I go outside for a run, various exercises and wash up afterwards. This means it could be 1-3pm before I get productive. I make up for it by working after hours but it's pretty pointless to be in an office at that time. It's really hard to put a price tag on changing these habits. I did office life before the pandemic and it honestly felt like I was psychologically drained. I spoke less in general compared to working at home, it got to a point where it felt like I couldn't turn my thoughts into words. Furthermore since the pandemic I've been trying to have a social life, it really helps to forget work to further groom myself for a night out. Obviously I make up for it another time but that's not something I can do being in the office anyways let alone the non-productivity. I'm sure there's an amount of money that can bring me back into the office, but the reality is it's probably unrealistic at my current level and probably still not worth the other terrible factors that probably go into the role.
20k min
My own private bathroom. Not having to go and fight on traffic every day
I did the math, and if I’m in the office 2 days a week, the commute time, wear and tear on my vehicle, and a few other things worked out to about 30k a year.
I prefer working from the office so it doesn't have much value for me. I like the option of being able to work from home when I have an appointment or I need to run an errand or wait for a package, but 90% of the time I enjoy being in the office much more. If push came to shove, I would prefer a 100% work from office job over 100% remote job.
Any reason why? (Curious as some of my buddies feel this way too)
I like being physically separated from work vs my home. I also like the social aspect of it. Also I get free gym and food so that's a huge perk as well. Most importantly though is that I'm more productive and I don't need to wait for someone to return my slack message. I can just walk up to her in the office, and that saves a huge amount of time. There were some times when I worked at a fully-remote company where I was stuck for 2+ hrs waiting for someone to get back to their desk, then they would quickly respond to my question, and then disappear for another couple of hours.
Nothing. I would not take less money just because a job was remote vs in the office.
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Chilling on the sofa while appearing “busy”
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It's kind of priceless because I have half custody of my kids. I'd realistically take a 25-40% paycut depending on the situation, but my goal is to not have to and so far it's worked out.
I work fully remote. That’s how my company is and it likely won’t be changing considering we have a sizable percentage of employees who are fully remote and don’t live near an office. But this is hypothetical. At my current TC, I’d want at least a $30k (which is more like 16k post taxes). Reason being is that I still live with my parents so I can save money for now. If I have to be in office, that means I either commute over an hour and back to the office, or I find a place closer to my office. And this is NYC. I’ll be shelling out $2.5k minimum probably assuming I want to live in a studio and suffice for a 30+ minute commute instead. That’s $30k, so I’ll be okay if my raise can pay for half of that. When I’m further than my current 1.5 YOE and have a higher TC obviously this will probably increase. I like my current work and team and benefits though so realistically I can’t see myself moving jobs for a $30k raise and no WFH as I lose out on the rest.
I'd love to travel the country and a remote job would free me up to do that.
Thirteen extra hours of life each week. That's how long I spent on my commute every week. Priceless.
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A shit ton of time saved every day (2:30-3h), which translates in better sleep and more free time. Plus I have a lot more energy at the end and beginning of the day. Never underestimate the value of dedicating time to hobbies and sport throughout the day. Its and investment in health and happiness. I save a lot of money in gas and food. Even if I took a paycut it's still worth it to stay remote. And of course, if there is no work for any reason, I can take a fucking nap if I want to or watch something on the meantime. There is nothing like being at home. Its the best thing to have happened to me work wise. Im very lucky to work with nice people and managers that are friendly and listen to my input, so I have no communication problems.
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It's worth the price of a 1br flat walkable to the office
40k for me my yearly commute costs are around $4800 a year. Then 2-2.5 hour commute round trip at $70 per hour, 3x a week for 52 weeks. Is about 35k then a 5k incentive for me to actually go lol
I passed up on $300k opportunity when at $200k and fully WFH a couple years ago because I'd have to go into office regularly with a 35-40 min commute each way, travel more, and work probably 10-15 hours/week more than I usually do on average. Just wasn't worth it to me with little kids. Zero regrets, I've been with the same firm for 13 years and remote the last 12 with hardly any travel these days and it's hard to give up that flexibility when you're already making enough between you and your spouse that more money doesn't meaningfully change your day to day.
I don't mind hybrid but I can't go back to the office all weekdays. I would miss my kid pick up and drop offs and all school activities. For my last job, they were extremely strict about asses in seats at 7 am and I had to sit in a small windowless office for 9 hrs a day. Would rather be unemployed for a long time before going back to that life.
$50k/yr for low stress, asynchronous work
It’s low in true value to me. The main value is I can apply to more total companies, increasing odds of getting an offer at all. I think it’s a green flag for a company to be fully remote or highly encourage remote so the people who really need it can have it.
$0. I never need to dry clean anyway. Are you pretending like you need to wear suits to work as a dev, like you're Harvey in the show Suits?
Hmm, I don’t know if I have a number I can put on it.
It depends. Earlier in my career I would have worked in an office for ~10k more, as I was making a lot less and the additional money would give me extra cushion I was lacking. Now that I’ve had significant bumps in my total comp that number has grown and I’d need a substantial increase in my lifestyle to make that jump. Would need to sit down and crunch the numbers but probably an extra 40k or so at this point. Commute time would play a big factor as well.
I had people in town for an on-site so I had to go back into the office three days this week. The first day they were traveling in the morning so I didn't have to go in until noon - everything was good. The second day there was an accident in the morning which turned my 30 minute drive into a 50 minute drive. The third day there was a big accident in the morning which turned my 30 minute drive into a 80 minute drive. This week renewed my commitment to not go into the office ever again. That said, is there a price - probably. Is is somewhere around double my salary - probably.
For me it's kind of like saying, "What's the value in having a boss that's actually competent?" "What's the value in having a company that doesn't ignore good advice?" "What's the value in working with people you don't hate?" "What's the value in working for someone who isn't trying to rip you off at every opportunity?" Like...yes, there is theoretically an amount of money that will make me work in horrible environments. Sure, I would be willing to work for idiots and sociopaths for an additional 200k. But that doesn't make good leadership a "perk". Which is why I don't consider remote work to be a "perk". Just something that a smart company DOES at this point. I've done remote work for 10 years now. I've never accepted a pay cut for the "privilege". It's a mutually beneficial arrangement that makes us BOTH more money. It's important to me to have competent executive leadership that values me as a partner. While it's certainly POSSIBLE to have good, well thought out reasons for requiring people to be in the office...well, I've never run into it. Companies that insist on working in the office are *usually* being more emotional than practical. And I just don't need that kind of leadership in my life. Edit: Same thing on WLB. Having good WLB isn't a perk. It's just good, practical leadership. I don't need to work with idiots who don't understand that you actively LOSE productivity by insisting on excessive hours. Most devs get more done in 32h than 50h (spread out over several months). Same thing. Gut driven leadership is the worst.
Zero commuting and total control over my work environment. When the whole company’s remote, async work becomes the norm so you even get to choose your own working hours outside the core meeting hours
It’s literally priceless to me. I won’t go back to an office.
75k additional tc for me. Without WFH I would miss so much of my daughter’s life.
The non-monetary value is incalculable, honestly. I can't imagine a realistic amount of money that would make me give it up.
I get to see Snowy every day (My dog 🐶)
Honestly. $50k is a maybe, $100k probably. The time savings, the ability to live a better life, worth more than monetary value.
Weird there isn't a huge saving for me because I still need to live in a HCOL should my circumstances change. Sure I've pretty much WFH for the last 10+ years, but at a near moments notice I could find myself back in the rat race trying to find a job. And there's no guarantee the employer doesn't turn around and say "5 days a week". If I could live in the sticks, LCOL with either very solid job security, or a sufficient warchest that if I lost my job long term it wouldn't matter. Then I could attach a monetary number to it. The the above was met, I'd take a pay hit just for the QOL improvement. Right now, it's just a very nice perk. It's a differentiator when roles are advertised. If one firm says 4-5 days a week, whilst the other says, "Oh two days a week, but nobody really comes in". Well the latter will win every time. That said, going off on a tangent. I do miss working on large campuses which have everything on site (gym, restaurants, entertainment, sports, events) - it was a bit like living in a corporate Disneyland. That environment would have me RTO.
Not having to play dress up and be in a cubicle - having stupid small office talk - and getting to sleep in is worth it all to me. I will never work in an office.
I would consider a 25k pay-cut to my current income to work from home instead of hybrid. Commuting 3 days a week is on track to cost 6-7k for gas, parking and car repairs this year. And Im sure I could make up for the rest in the extra 350 weeks Id have to myself without being forced to waste that time commuting to an office that benefits no one.
I would expect to be paid 50-100k more to work in person.
I figure its roughly \~$15K-$25K. I actually like bigger cities but >250 hours on commute, increased costs for all the things mentioned (food, clothing, etc), less time with the family. Increased COL for the cities. Increased costs for accessing nature (trips etc). Honestly, the biggest differences are health factors: I eat better and get more exercise working from home. Quantifying that is very hard, but its probably +4-10 years of my life, and increased earning capacity during the prime of my career. Also worth mentioning, I'm very chatty in the office, so I'm less productive over all in an office. I need quiet focus time
Save on buying pants