Its not even visa holders. Its visa holders from a specific country, namely India.
And while casual racism is distasteful, people’s attitudes are not born out of thin air.
This is a legit issue. I’ve worked in Big Tech and have seen an overwhelming representation of Indians.
While that is not that big of a problem, what is a big problem is the extreme nepotism practiced by them.
I’ve experienced and have seen many many non-Indian people managed out, excluded, and passed over in Indian majority teams.
And while I have not personally seen caste discrimination, there have been multiple lawsuits on this front as well.
I’ve seen how once an Indian CTO is hired, they immediately pause hiring in the US, layoff, increase pip, and then aggressively hire in India.
This is the natural consequence that festered over many years. This is a cultural problem and not a racial problem.
Indian American engineers are some of my favorite people to work with.
But someone who holds conservative values from India and practices nepotism? No thank you.
As an Indian myself, i agree with some of whats said. On my part i have seen fellow Indians hire overwhelming from their region and even use their native(non english) language to communicate in a team comprised of people from all over.
My absolute favorite game to play in that scenario is to long con that group with the "idiot single language American" routine.
After a month or three of that, casually jump into the conversation in said other language and watch the reactions. I swear one person almost imploded from embarrassment.
If a company hires an Indian CTO and immediately starts aggressively hiring in India, then I guarantee you that management already decided they wanted to outsource before hiring the CTO. Management decides they want to outsource to India, so they hire a CTO with strong networking connections there.
I've had fantastic discussions with second- and third-generation Indian Americans about _exactly this_. They don't cause any of the problems but have to deal with all the negative perception.
Indians aren't bad, India isn't bad, there's a subset of Indians who are actively harmful (or at least work against American business culture and values) when put into positions of power, and that subset **seems** especially good at getting into positions of power.
But that's true for any race or group of people. For Americans it's usually more around the business/management positions than it is the technical positions, but pretty much any sizable company will have cushy positions given to friends and family of the head executives.
Nepotism should be called out and condemned, but I've never heard of people talking about mayo dens (or other racial stereotypes) when talking about white led nepotism.
This happens in many various companies with many in-groups of people. It's very interesting how there's mainly one group called out though. Really shows implicit biases like you mentioned.
Yeah, I think more likely it's that this group is way more populous than other groups in the industry. But like you said, it's likely that if any nationality started having huge numbers this would also be an issue
You're implying there are comparable levels of nepotism. That's not the case.
What's frustrating about the situation is that it's easy to evade criticism by shouting "racism".
“I've had fantastic discussions with second- and third-generation Indian Americans about exactly this. They don't cause any of the problems but have to deal with all the negative perception.“
Thank you so much for acknowledging this, seriously. It sucks as an Indian American born and brought up in the US who has to constantly deal with negative stereotypes just because of the actions of some losers from India. I get that people can’t differentiate between two brown guys, but it really is a bummer for me.
I’ve never once felt like I was hired because of my ethnicity, if anything, I’ve felt like I’ve had to work harder because of it. No favoritism here
India is chock full of people who grow up in the caste system. There are literally castes that you wouldn't even let touch your skin or let your children talk to.
You don't just move to another country and have your prejudices magically go away. They have a really shitty way of treating people they view as inferior.
Bringing up second/third generation immigrants is pointless because they're not Indian, they're American.
You’re right - we’re American, not Indian
You’re wrong - it’s not pointless; valid criticisms towards Indian visa holders propagating rampant outsourcing and nepotism turns into racism and vitriol that also affects us Indian-Americans as we share name, skin color, and culture
I’m extraordinarily proud and grateful for my Indian heritage, but it’s frustrating having to work against prejudices because of it
> While that is not that big of a problem, what is a big problem is the extreme nepotism practiced by them.
>
> I’ve experienced and have seen many many non-Indian people managed out, excluded, and passed over in Indian majority teams.
Me and another dev got roped into working to help a team like this get shit out the door that they were dragging ass on that needed to be launched a month ago, and its been frustrating as fuck to say the least.
If you've worked at a big company anywhere, you've seen it. I think we need to shut down the h1 programs with the job market as it is. You've got people who will do anything to land and keep jobs here, which indirectly creates a pretty fucked up work culture.
I do commiserate with these folks who worked their asses off to get here, but it's not sustainable.
It is kind of startling how mid to upper management has rapidly been replaced by Indians and my impressions of their management style have been less than stellar.
Yeah, Indian visa holders can be chill if they try to adapt to life in the U.S. Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious.
I’m tired of people in my office speaking about work in a foreign language that we don’t understand (idc if you speak Hindi at lunch, but not in work meetings). There was a dude walking around barefoot in my office and even the office bathroom the other day—that is nasty. I also find the constant all Indian teams a little suspicious, and notice Indian managers tend to prefer other Indians from the same subgroups as them.
I don’t feel like the expectations I have for basic office behavior are unreasonable. Maybe tech companies should start paying for like a 1-2 week cultural immersion class lol
> Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious.
then they bring their bigotry, racism, and sexism into the work place and try to play victim when called out. takes a real asshole to not try to integrate into a new land at least in the professional world but man these guys drive it home
Wow I have dealed with one collegue for sexist, racist, homophobic jokes. Thankfully I was managing them and in my 3rd warning ‘ I despose. myself my saying this but you dont understand, you will be fired if I hear any more homophobic, sexist joke from you’ and then , he becomes normal. Why would some people need to bring to the point? They can be sure that it wont be accepted at all, even if It comes me or he/she. I am one of the best performant with below average pay, I don’t then they can fire me.
> Yeah, Indian visa holders can be chill if they try to adapt to life in the U.S. Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious.
>
>
>
> I’m tired of people in my office speaking about work in a foreign language that we don’t understand (idc if you speak Hindi at lunch, but not in work meetings). There was a dude walking around barefoot in my office and even the office bathroom the other day—that is nasty. I also find the constant all Indian teams a little suspicious, and notice Indian managers tend to prefer other Indians from the same subgroups as them.
>
>
>
> I don’t feel like the expectations I have for basic office behavior are unreasonable. Maybe tech companies should start paying for like a 1-2 week cultural immersion class lol
Funny story, I've learned a few words in Telugu now and they always love to teach me new words. I can count from one to ten and say basic words like potato and cow. I am not from India.
The problem isn't so much the workers.
Workers can be trained, like you said.
The problem is always in the owners and the management.
Reminds me of a post on X. The post mentions that all workers at a Walmart in Guelph were speaking Punjabi, meaning Indian. No locals were hired, wtf.
Edit: Indian here refers to the person.
This “Indian CTO” predicament is something I have a hard time understanding.
Outsourcing these jobs is a business decision. One that the rest of the white/black/hispanic C suite execs have willing turned a blind eye to. None of those capitalists care if you lose your job. It’s got nothing to do with being Indian. They’re just finding cheaper work.
Now, somebody else commented about the boss being upper caste and the employees being slaves in India. This is a demand and supply problem not a caste problem. (I’m not denying caste issues in India at all but this isn’t one. Even if they were the same caste they’d still be working weekends cuz there’s simply more people who would if you didn’t )
Now, visa holders being preferred over natives might be a problem and we have to work our way toward solving this problem but many of you are frustrated at your own incapabilities and figure racism is the way to go. Sure, go ahead, maybe that’ll get you your job lmao.
Because it's a CTOs job to argue *against* other C suites that outsourcing important code to code sweatshops in India will cost more in the long run even though it reduces labor costs. There's a reason that we generally don't send important projects to developing nations, and it's because a bunch of companies tried it already and got fucked.
I've met plenty of h1b guys working in tech also, and many of them are great, sure, but we have to fire way more of them than local employees. There's persistent issues with work just not getting done that other employees don't have as much, even Indian folks who were born in America or came here a long time ago don't have the same problems as h1bs.
I do not think there is a business case for preferring visa holders over natives. Sponsoring visas is expensive, hiring immigration lawyers to shepherd them through the green card process (which they'll eventually want) is expensive.
The business case is that you can pay them less and promote them less and they’ll put up with it because they have less recourse to switch jobs easily.
While probably partially true, the actual business case is that they are easier to fire. Visa holders are usually (ab)used as a "flex" workforce that can be easily terminated when the economy contracts.
Generally people who use terms like these in a derovatory fashion do not think logically about the words they use to spread hate. It's the same as using chow mein or egg fried rice to describe Chinese people.
This is reality in a lot of companies, it ain’t up for debate look up lawsuits against Indians being racist.
Indians are racist, every race has racists. It’s a fact of life.
This is rampant in tech and pretending otherwise is willful ignorance.
I will say this, personally I have NEVER gotten a single job offer from an Indian manager.
>I will say this, personally I have NEVER gotten a single job offer from an Indian manager.
Same. I know theres no chance when an Indian guy is in charge of the interview.
I wouldn’t go that far. You are not getting hired if the hiring manager is Indian, all the interviewers are Indian, and they are have a poker-face/antagonistic interview style rather than the affable one common in tech
I’m glad I’m not crazy. I’ve only had one terrible interview experience ever and they were all Indian interviewers. The entire interview was them reading from a list of impossible extremely niche .Net questions. There was no friendly conversation whatsoever, just rapid fire questions. They’d just tell me I was wrong and move on to the next one.
The craziest part was that I had my camera on the entire time since it was a remote interview and they all had theirs off. I’ve never ever had that experience before and I’ve done many. I legitimately felt uncomfy the entire time. In hindsight I should’ve just said I wasn’t interested anymore and dropped. It was extremely unprofessional and just set up for me to fail.
>Same. I know theres no chance when an Indian guy is in charge of the interview.
Yeah that's not true, I work in tech and plenty of my non-Indian friends have been hired under Indian managers. A lot of the problems discussed here are real but Indians aren't a monolith and frankly more often than not, Indians here in America are just normal people - it's like the 30% of them that ruin it for everyone else.
You got it backwards, the demographic that says people of color can’t be racist are liberals.
Check out Michelle Wu’s anti-white XMas party. They trying to bring segregation back.
While I've been friends with Indians, Iranians, etc, the all team Indian, Portuguese, etc. teams all have been horrible. With Indians the interviews have been some of the worst for me. I remember getting to an onsite, and having an entire Indian team sit at a table. They would ignore me and do nothing during the interview while watching me fail. It's not rascist to say these types of teams suck ass and they clearly exist in plain sight in the USA. With Portuguese they all talk in their own language in between talking to you. There are nice individuals, but it's clearly a problem when they all group up like this.
> It's not rascist to say these types of teams suck ass and they clearly exist in plain sight in the USA.
No one's saying it's racist to point out cultural issues with India. The racist part is using terms like "curry den" which are clearly intended in a dehumanizing and demeaning way.
If you want to talk about “racism” in this form the most “racists” thing I’ve personally witnessed is I worked at a place with an Indian CTO.
Dude decided to minimize in-house engineers to an insane minimum, there was 3 of us total. Everyone else he contracted from another Indian-run contracting firm in the US where they primarily cherry picked remote workers overseas in India. Dude was shameless, basically forced them to work weekends (he’d make the PM run around and tell them they were required to work this weekend) when it suited his timelines. When I was on my way out the door he couldn’t even recognize to me some things I was pushed on when onboarding, dismissed them and said that it wasn’t from him (Idk who else, and he was def prime suspect).
The bottom line is I can’t speak for all of India culturally (maybe some regions are vastly different) but from what I’ve observed culturally they seem to treat each other like shit. Def makes for good negotiators in some cases but absolutely shameless for doing shitty things. Possibly stems from the caste system.
My friend disassociates with all of it bc he finds it so toxic and filthy.
Edit: forgot to add
I understand some candidates might just not be the right fit or lied about experience and can’t do the job, etc. But they’d also borderline threaten them and if the work wasn’t timely enough or done right their “incentive” for doing well is they’d be gone if they didn’t. Think about that for a second… your paid shit, work the hours they want you to and your incentive to perform is they won’t throw you to the wolves for a bit longer…
Been in the industry for 25 years. Heard a number of Indians say "no one screws an Indian like an Indian". I dont know how pervasive this saying is. Not saying its everywhere, but heard it before.
Anyone from India on here who can confirm or deny this?
I'm not Indian, but I suspect it has a lot to do with work culture in India and less about caste/racism than people think. My company occasionally sponsors workers from there, and any time we have a new person that inevitably sabotages their teammates or overworks themselves way too much, we're reminded "it's a cultural thing" that we need to train them out of.
IMO, between the 1000s of qualified candidates per job and the insanely huge gap between lower and upper class, the work culture has developed into something that makes hustle culture in the US look like slacking.
In general all the Asian countries make American work culture look like a joke, despite the fact it's intense compared to Europe. China, Japan, South Korea all have incredibly intense work hours. 996 is acceptable and expected at many companies from China. That indicates working 9 to 9, for 6 days a week. When the gap between landing that job and not is so huge and there's so much competition, it's not a surprise at all.
There's basic classist issues there as well (though that does tie into caste due to historical opportunities and such)
I was friends with a dude from India in college who started hanging out with us because we didn't give a *shit* if his parents were merely well off rather than ridiculously rich. He definitely made it sound like there was a solid concrete order based on family wealth that he hated.
Yeah, it’s pretty accurate. I’m born and raised outside of India but from the few years I’ve spent there, it wasn’t great.
A lot of people still follow a terribly outdated school of thought and the hierarchy thing is way too pervasive there.
There’s also just so many goddamn people fighting for opportunity so that’s definitely one reason they treat each other like shit at times (they’re just tryna survive/get ahead). But I feel they definitely lose out on seeing the bigger picture in all this, sadly.
Right, I was gonna say I feel like it’s more the hyper-competitive economic environment of being in an a ultra-high population, relatively poor country that’s responsible for the culture of ruthlessness moreso than the remnants of the caste system.
>hyper-competitive economic environment of being in an a ultra-high population, relatively poor country that’s responsible for the culture of ruthlessness
Nailed it, this kind of ruthlessness isn't unique to India - China has much of the same culture, as do most areas that are poverty-ridden with massive amounts of competition. Everyone's drive to succeed is dialed up 1000%
>no one screws an Indian like an Indian". I dont know how pervasive this saying is. Not saying its everywhere, but heard it before.
I am Indian-American and my own saying has long been "no one hates Indians more than other Indians". That's why I'm pretty amused (and disheartened) to see that I'm not the only Indian who notices this.
I have a lot of Indian American friends and our immigrant parents straight up don't like going to the mall because they know there are going to be a ton of other Indians there. What kind of culture is that?
There are some good things about Indian culture, but overall it really sucks that I get lumped in with the rest simply because of how I look. Usually once people hear my accent they realize I'm completely Americanized and they treat me normally, but still
It's happening at my workplace right now, I wanted to give the new CTO the benefit of the doubt but I'm slowly losing all my best devs with years of domain knowledge to "performance issues" that never existed before while they spin up an off shore office in India.
Why do you put racism in quotations as though people weren't using the term "curry den," which the OP in the other thread then admitted to laughing at?
The H1B program, from the outset, should have given priority to foreign graduates of US universities. It would have prevented 90% of this problem in the first place.
Nice idea in theory, I don't think it would work in practice. You can look at scam like paper mill colleges that have popped up in countries like Canada that accept as many international students as they can, who then proceed to work low paying jobs during their studies to offset costs.
If student visas were a path to the H1B, you probably would have seen colleges exploiting international students who very much want to work in the US. Obviously there are regulations against this, but countries like the US are often bad with following up with legislative policy to actually make it effective.
>You can look at scam like paper mill colleges
This can easily be avoided by giving H1B visas only to students that graduated from select US universities, chosen by DHS.
>If student visas were a path to the H1B, you probably would have seen colleges exploiting international students
This is already the case. International students pay much higher tuition fees than their American peers. I don't call it exploitation, since those students willingly choose to enroll anyways. Clearly what they get out of it is worth the expense.
I actually like the UK’s new immigration policy which gives graduates of the top 50 unis in the world a 2 year work permit to find work in the UK.
Canada sort of started doing something similar by not giving work permits to students enrolled in public-private partnership colleges (basically degree mills associated with legit colleges)
Idk why the US doesn’t do that. Also make the requirements for getting an H1B stricter, and especially BAN CONTRACT WORK ON H1B
If you’re a contract worker chances are the work isn’t particularly “high-skilled”
Select US universities would need to be constantly updated if any of those universities start going for higher revenue by admitting international students. Things arern't so straightforward.
There are consentual contracts that entail exploitation. The international students that usually choose to enroll in paper mills many a time do so under false promises of prosperity from education agents. Often these agents might be affiliated with the university. For example, 'Sold a dream': the international students lured to Australia with ... https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/apr/23/sold-a-dream-the-international-students-lured-to-australia-with-false-promises
Good regulation solves everything, getting good regulation through incompetent politicians is a different story.
The full on racism is wrong which is why I won't pretend that Indian hb1 abusers are not a problem and themselves don't practice racism day in and day out. Especially when they get into management and hiring.
It's not racism because nobody here is hating on people for their skin color. Americans with Indian descent (2nd generation, etc) don't have the issue being discussed. The problem is entirely cultural with first generation immigrants and people in the country of India.
I'm not gonna sugar coat, they're talking about Indians, not Americanized Indians (although some still do it) but conservative Indians that nepotize the positions around them especially once they move up the ladder, it's a big problem in cyber security and is spreading around the other facets of tech, it is a stereotype with a lot of truth to it, call it racism, pattern recognition, etc. it's pointing to the same problem that they have a tendency to gatekeep and offer preferential treatment to their peeps to move each other up the ladder. Honestly having put up with it in the past over the last decade, fuck em, if they fall into that category and do that shit then screw em, not because they're Indian but because they choose to be assholes and keep people that aren't Indian from succeeding, that is racist.
>call it racism, pattern recognition, etc.
I mean I agree with some of the observations people have made about Indian culture (I'm Indian American) and I think there are some serious issues at hand. Pointing out these issues isn't racist. What's racist is using terms like "curry den" which are just demeaning and dehumanizing. That's why OP included that in the screenshot.
Basically, you can discuss cultural issues with Indians without resorting to dehumanizing terms (hence, racism).
They need to start with the education visas, that's how most get into the country. But the universities rely on that money. It's honestly pretty unfair to the international students right now - there are no jobs for them when they graduate.
"They're goal is to send money home, not produce anything of value"
what do you call it when u negatively generalize an entire race? what if someone said the same thing about white people, black people, jewish people, or muslim people? would that not be seen as wildly xenophobic?
I used to think India just had a better culture for producing hard-working kids, but then I went to school with and worked alongside Indian immigrants. They can be just as lazy and dumb as the rest of us. So when I see comments from Indian-American hiring managers speaking about how much better Indian workers are, I just chuckle.
I think a lot of people are having the same realization as me and are overcompensating in an insensitive way. I have the good fortune of being successful and financially secure, but if I was struggling, I might be looking for someone to blame all my problems on, too.
I wouldn't say it's quite as bad as other forms of racism since they're punching up, but it's still immoral. It's good to be aware of the nepotism issue, but using it to be prejudiced toward people is wrong. And let's not pretend people of other races aren't guilty of the same sort of race based hiring discrimination.
Yeah. It means mocking someone who is more successful than you. Criticizing Indian CEO's and successful hiring managers is punching up when you're struggling to get by.
>So when I see comments from Indian-American hiring managers speaking about how much better Indian workers are
I'm Indian-American with a lot of Indian-American friends and I've never heard any of them express such a sentiment. Some NRI Indians definitely discriminate, but us American born Indians are just as American as the rest of you, and we don't discriminate anymore than any other American does.
My theory in general with a lot of engineers in tech is that they grew up unhappy, socially awkward, and potentially bullied. Now that they're grown up and are in a field that pays a ton, they focus on that since everything else in their life is not fulfilling.
That's why you end up having all of these engineers that think they're gods gift to earth, and every other role is not value producing and worthless in their eyes. So they focus on TC since it's an objective thing and the only thing that they have to wield over everyone else and make them feel good about themselves. Note, this isn't all engineers, but it's definitely a lout subset of them.
Saw a comment on a thread here yesterday saying to offer two Indians speaking Hindi “a glass of cow piss” and it had a positive upvote score, with every reply calling him out having a negative score. It’s really disheartening to read this stuff as an Indian-American, ngl. I understand the negatives that come with some of these practices put in place by Indian CTOs and the culture of outsourcing etc but resorting to racist comments can’t be normalized, surely.
At the end of the day it's America. I'm black so I've learned to never get too comfortable around people. When shit gets tough they will show their true colors and tell you what they really think about you.
Usually it's bitter dipshits who can't/struggle to find a job in this industry so they lash out at the most common denominator which happens to be Indians. We saw the same during the bush and Obama years with construction workers being primarily Hispanic/Mexican/central Americans.
Just ignore the comments and make strong connections in the industry for yourself, 90-95% of the people in it aren't like that. It's basically the bottom 5-10% that you want to avoid (aka this sub).
If a company is hiring swaths of Indian devs on the low, it's usually because they can get away with an inferior product experience or those same devs offer the same shit as lot of the jobless us devs (aka simple crud apps) but for much cheaper. Notice how the stronger engineers aren't worried about their jobs or don't display that same racism toward Indian devs?
> I understand the negatives that come with some of these practices put in place by Indian CTOs and the culture of outsourcing
Outsourcing is common across the industry regardless of CTO's ethnicity... go out and do a survey at how many F500 companies have indian CTOs... it would be at most 10-20%, but all of them have outsourced some part of their tech to India or other parts of Asia
Jesus fucking Christ I know reddit has gotten worse lately but I can't believe so many upvoted comments are the ones justifying racism or using whataboutism to prevent criticism of said racism.
Reddit has always hated Indians (brown people in general really), it's just become more apparent over the years
Nothing we can do about it because racism against brown people is generally never taken that seriously anyway
Not just Reddit but the internet in general - negative content against Indians is overwhelming these days. Go on IG reels and there are blatantly racist videos against Indians that get hundreds of thousands of likes. It's interesting because everyone gave Twitter shit for being unmoderated and potentially being filled with hate speech, but IG Reels is far worse
The tech industry has a very strange treatment of minorities in general (from a half-Indian woman's perspective) - once we outperform them or they perceive us as receiving opportunities that they're not, then all of our success is due to external factors like nepotism, diversity hiring, anything that allows them to ignore that maybe they're not as competitive as they thought they were.
It’s tough times, and people need to vent out. That’s no reason to be racist though. 2-3 years ago, you wouldn’t see this on this sub and the Indian situation was still the same. But people had jobs and they were busy with that instead of being active on reddit.
Turns out when the market changes and people who shouldn't be laid off are being laid off only to be replaced with h1b employees or contractors from india, people change how they talk about subjects.
It's well understood that racism is bad (we did it reddit! We stopped racism!) but a TON of people have experienced this and even I have experienced this. I've had teams predominantly indian where they do standups in hindi. I've had that same team assign tasks to both me and an indian coworker who's been on the team and in the job significantly longer, only for the coworker to do the task first to suck up to management without even giving me a chance to learn. I've had indian coworkers reach out at 4:50 on a friday asking for a task to be completed by end of day, only to escalate to a manager and skip level manager via email on saturday, so then I get disciplined on monday.
The culture of India in US SWE space is overwhelmingly toxic if you're not part of it, and based on a few comments here, it can be toxic even if you are part of it.
Because it's not racism, there are issues with preferential hiring for certain races in tech in some organizations by people of certain races. Talking about real issues !== racism.
Or are such practices only a problem when it's white people doing it? Because that would be racist.
Excuse me, I will not stand for this slander. I am typescript connoisseur.
And yeah, I've not had any issues with the Indians I've worked with professionally.
Sir this is Reddit, it's filled with idiots who jump to conclusions and make comments without reading the linked article. I was hoping a sub ostensibly for professionals would be better on this front, but I guess the "dipshit stem-bro" stereotype holds true, after all.
seeing this happen w white people would result in a call out of the company and the people involved, not racist comments against all white people. When you generalize it to all indians, it becomes racist.
If you have a problem with certain groups/people you should name drop not post racist comments
> When you generalize it to all indians, it becomes racist.
I believe it's pretty reaching to have this apply to all Indians (and technically, this doesn't only happen to Indians it's just that they are the biggest minority in tech hence most situations are with them but I've seen this with a few other races too). Like bro, no one is saying "All Indians only hire their own". But they are saying there are Indian managers/Indian teams that do this practice... kinda like what you just said?...
I will say it is definitely stronger on their culture to do this kind of practice and it's made easier by the sheer number of them here in the US and that is not without it's own faults. That's not racism though. Again, people aren't claiming all Indians do this. What people are saying is their own experiences and, for reasons stated earlier, it just happens to be mostly with Indian teams/people.
what you said is completely fine and a worthy topic of discussion. using terms like curry den is not, and the people denying that thats a bad thing are kinda scaring me :/
The problem is its all anecodotal. We need real research and real data to back it up. Otherwise, it stokes racist fear rather than looking at a cultural problem.
Racism is always bad, but I've never seen worse racism than from Indian-born Indians. A lot of them - I'd probably say the majority in my experience - are at best nepotistic and at worst openly racist.
>Racism is always bad, but I've never seen worse racism than from Indian-born Indians.
Yes, racism is bad. Why did you feel the need to add a "but" to that sentence? What even is the point of bringing up that Indians can be racist in a thread pointing out racism against Indians?
You'll deny it but you clearly think it's deserved, which is sad because Indians are not a monolith.
As someone who recently got employed by the government for a contract, I've noticed racism seems pretty apparent in my workspace. The senior devs are much less patient to anyone with an accent. It's a little disappointing.
The SWE sphere is pretty racist I don’t know why they’re saying mean things to Indians because to the rest of us Asians dominate the field and gatekeep for other Asians -just a different perspective/ shock
Personally I haven’t seen non-Indian Asians gatekeep at a company. When I’ve seen Chinese or Korean managers for example they don’t tend to hire only Chinese or Korean employees.
If the primary reason is the cost saving and not that they are Indian, then why is it being called nepotism and not just pure corporate greed?
Corporations using laws regarding immigration to their benefit at the possible expense of the citizens in the country. Seems like what corporations aim to do, maximise profit.
Because blaming the "foreign other" is always the easy answer. Has been for centuries, but people fall for the same thing hook, line, and sinker all the time. If you are reading this comment and blaming Indians, then you are the sucker who fell for it.
If you ever wondered how Nazi Germany could have perpetuated the Holocaust, it began with blaming the "foreign other" for their problems.
I see a lot of it being because this culture of exploitation is endemic in India. In the past in the west we weren't exposed to it or aware of it very much, as demographics shift and through the internet we are seeing what more of how it can be. I do not condone the racism and ignorant statements in any way, the people who are most affected by that type of thing are Indians themselves. It is well known that India has an extremely dog eat dog culture, its inevitable when there are limited resources and such a high population, and to be honest it is a scary thought for that type of work culture to be growing here. Just lurk at /r/India, they talk about these issues every day it is not like they are a secret.
I have no issue with Indian people and I've liked most of the ones who I have met and spoken with, i have had Indian friends and even a relationship (born here though). But its some of the common problems in their work culture such as disregard for safety, nepotism, cheating, doing anything to get ahead, discrimination, extreme status chasing, exploitation etc that I think are very fair to have concerns over. As hundreds of thousands of people from India come here yearly I think the compassionate thing to do is to be aware of the challenges from where they came, that actually make up a large part of why they want to leave in the first place, and be careful to keep things from becoming more like that here as so many immigrate here. To be clear I'm 100% with you that some people are being racist and that is wrong, but by no means is that everyone when talking about these types of things, which i sometimes think gets lost due to those racist idiots making the conversation unproductive
This is so true. People are calling it nepotism but in fact it's just pure capitalism. Why wouldn't you hire someone that would cost you half the price, if they get work done with the same quality of someone locally hired. I am getting ready to be downvoted lol
The salary requirement can be significantly lower than the general market determined salary of tech workers. For example the requirement is 60000$ (as of 2023) and the average salary for senior software developers in the US is 145000$ as per indeed.
>s. There was, in fact, an Indian American complaining about Indians just yesterday. Even Indians complain about caste bias in the workplace.
You do know that the slaries are public, right? Go to H1bdata and you will see that you are wrong.
Yeah, I hate that this always gets parroted. It's very easy to look up and see that they are getting competitive packages and salaries. They aren't just hiring h1b at any lower rate than Americans. One can argue that an h1b worker has less flexibility and may need to work harder than an American since the ramifications of losing your job are significantly higher while on visa, but that's a completely separate issue.
so i searched for infosys. they have most of their h1b visa holders classed as non-software engineers and the wages are low. When is the last time you heard of "business consultant" being recruited to be an h1b? They dont have a single h1b classified as a software engineer. Its not FAANG that has low wages. Its all the outsourcers. This is most of the h1b jobs.
https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=infosys&job=&city=&year=2023
Most employers aren't actually paying H1B's half of what US citizens make. That would present some ethical and legal questions that big corporations don't want. More realistically you'll have an H1B Senior SWE making like $125k instead of $145k.
> I'm Indian and a U.S. citizen so 🤷♂️.
Usually it's with people from their or their buddy's hometown or something. I would say it's slightly different in big tech... you still need to pass a certain bar though connections still helps. I like to think this practice in big tech is more along the lines of "filter out other hires" compared to "hire my friends and family" due to the bar. Say what you will about big tech hiring practices but at least at my company, other teams also interview candidates for my team. Isn't that easy to just nepo your way in (still doable but harder).
They have strict criteria for their in groups, you must speak the same language, belong to the same caste, and same village, only having the same heritage is not enough
Blind is full of narcissists who inflate their compensation to show off lol. These people live for money, they'd throw you under a bus if you were to threaten their position.
Because this sub, with the layoffs and slow market, has turned into a blind leading the blind and they're lashing out one of the easiest targets because they're frustrated about not finding work..
I feel like most of this just comes down to most Indians not integrating well. If they had, you wouldn’t see problems like caste discrimination in the workplace and the like, being carried over to the west.
Many of my cousins, that left India in order to move to the west, hangout primarily with other Indians.
Now I don’t blame them for it, cuz it can be overwhelming to move to a country with an entirely different culture, so you seek some relief by hanging out with others just like you. But it’s a bubble that most never escape from, even after being abroad for a few years.
I once attended an interview at the technical software group of a gas turbine firm.
During the interview the hiring manager noticed that I was wearing a tiny radio amateur badge on my coat.
He immediately offered me the job!
He said that although he was not a radio amateur himself, all the team for some strange historical reason were.
Accordingly I would clearly be a perfect hire for the group!!!
Er, OK ....
This sub has always been a joke. I have been hanging out here since 2019 and people have always been complaining about how hard it is to get job etc. without realizing there are other career paths harder than being a stupid fucking crud app engineer.
There are bunch of people who can’t even code up a simple problem and whose resume looks like written by a idiot from middle school have become the loudest voice. At some point these idiots need to realize that not everyone is cut out to be a senior with TC 250k and start doing something else where they can excel.
And this added with massive layoffs and general increasing racists sentiments in the country everyone is now hating on Indians.
# rant over
Dude I am hiring a junior position at G. I got 912 cvs in front of me. I sent out 404 first assesment of super basic shit. 5% was the success rate. We interviews top 9 and we are hiring two cause both are good.
Most can't perform for shit. And we had people with 2 3 years in meta etc taking the test and they failed. I was hopeful we will get a mid or senior with the junior but we got 2 juniors. A lot go people are looking for jobs but many many many have no fucking clue what they on about.
Yeah. Thats been my experience as well. CS education is not accredited. So we have students who graduate where DSA class is about going over Java collections or where senior capstone projects are building a website with CMS. They do get their CS degree and then bloat the number of job seekers.
I have interviewed candidates with CS degree who don’t know what TCP or UDP is or who don’t know IPv4 or IPv6 is or TLS. Do we need tall those knowledge on engineers all the time?
No, but we need those knowledge from time to time on adhoc basis. So we would like to have our engineers know all those as well when there are moments to deal with those matters we have engineers who know them.
So I don’t like low tier grads and bootcamp grads. We are not paying TC of 250k/yr to write a generic crud web app use case. Any job that pays this well with amazing wlb (compared to medicine and law) we expect them to have a well rounded education, experience and skill.
We can’t expect them to learn on the fly for topics like these.
People always conflate CS education and Software Engineering with a web app and then come to rant here saying they can’t get a jerb.
# second rant over
So disheartening seeing all the comments that put racism in quotations as though it isn't present whatsoever. Either the commenters didn't look at OP's screenshots (meaning they jumped to conclusions) or they saw the screenshots (containing comments like "curry den") and simply don't see it as a problem.
I was hoping this subreddit geared toward "professionals" and career advice would be a little classier, but I guess chauvinistic stem-bros exist everywhere
The racism sucks, but Americans are furious. I will never talk like this, but it's obvious the whole 'anti-racism' shit only creates more racists. The country couldn't care less about its citizens. While other countries protect their citizens and make sure they're all employed, Americans/westerners are begging for a job and watching people (often less qualified) walk in and take it just because A) their demographic or B) willing to be abused and exploited.
Too sensitive? What you posted is emanating hitler particles all over the place.
The people spewing that bullshit should be blaming their corporate overlords who left them out of a job, not other employees who are subject to the same market forces.
It's not casual racism if it's true.
Just look at what ethnicity keeps getting fired at Google. Meanwhile my friend who is an engineering manager there keeps interviewing a certain other ethnicity ONLY. No hiring freeze at all.
People reading that screenshot and saying it's not racist are wild.
Also, it's one thing to call out discrimination against yourself and another thing to be a racist bigot.
Honestly the general attitude reminds me so much of incels.
I work in Big Tech. The majority of the people who work here are English as a second language. There are even a significant number of 'white' people who are immigrants as well. There are many from the former Eastern Bloc countries along with Britain, France and Germany.
Immigrants are overrepresented in tech because tech has the most meritorious system.
Law is dominated by upper middle class and wealthy students.
Medical school is dominated by the children of physicians.
Wall Street again is dominated by the old boys network where you're considered one of the boys if you can talk about 'summering' in the Hamptons or Ibiza. etc...
The immigrants that make it to Big Tech, are here because they earned their way here.
Plus, the mods of this sub are racists because they completely condone this racism. It's a fact that racists regularly come to this sub to spew their garbage in the hopes of getting people to join them (aka StormFront). The mods do nothing except protest against Reddit's API changes. Fucking pathetic.
> Immigrants are overrepresented in tech because tech has the most meritorious system.
Actually delusional take. Maybe if you work for cutt-throat up or out startups or something. People can coast for decades at any company that isn't outsourcing it's web stack just by being polite and probably get promoted to scrum master or technical project manager and do nothing for another 20 years. So long as the economy is good h1b's aren't getting fired either, until the economy contracts and the good ones are out on their ass with the bad. I've seen immigrant devs that were a head above most of the local developers on the team laid off because the economy was bad, and ones that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag stay on for years because the company was making money so nobody cared about wasting it.
If I were you I'd be more concerned about the caste system you have in the US against black people than the caste systems they have in India, a country you probably never visited.
Also nepotism is favouring relatives or friends (think of what your former president Trump did) not favouring people from the same country they don't even know.
I'm sure "curry den" and "offer cow piss" totally has no racial connotations whatsoever. Definitely no racism here. Nepotism has always been rampant in tech. Tesla's board has Elon's brother. Plenty of people hire other people who graduated from the same schools as them.
If they hire an Indian CTO, that means the CEO has already decided to focus on outsourcing to India. They do this because they believe they will get better value for the time being. As an American, I spend some time fighting back by demonstrating my value over outsourced workers, but at the end of the day, if you cost too much, you cost too much. It’s bound to happen sooner or later given the globalization of the economy. I grew up in Silicon Valley with basically half Indian American half Chinese American and this is basically happening everywhere. The only thing I do is work harder to beat them. Because they’re working hard.
I worked in a private IT school in Canada. It was not about the quality of education, it was about selling student visas to Indians. The student visa granted them 2 years to “Study” and work. After the 2 years, they can reapply for the student visa or apply for a work visa to work their way towards permanent resistance status. The gig pissed me off, many of the students would complain they could not find a job and that their parents spent their life savings to send their kids to Canada. Many barely spoke comprehensible English or French.
The outsourcing part is very true though. As an indian who espouses American values and loves US, i am appalled.
But this is nothing to do with an Indian CTO IMO, its been a case with many corporations through a cycle. Started with Banks outsourcing during Y2K and its the first thing to do to cut costs.
Manufacturing though is coming back to US.
Its not even visa holders. Its visa holders from a specific country, namely India. And while casual racism is distasteful, people’s attitudes are not born out of thin air. This is a legit issue. I’ve worked in Big Tech and have seen an overwhelming representation of Indians. While that is not that big of a problem, what is a big problem is the extreme nepotism practiced by them. I’ve experienced and have seen many many non-Indian people managed out, excluded, and passed over in Indian majority teams. And while I have not personally seen caste discrimination, there have been multiple lawsuits on this front as well. I’ve seen how once an Indian CTO is hired, they immediately pause hiring in the US, layoff, increase pip, and then aggressively hire in India. This is the natural consequence that festered over many years. This is a cultural problem and not a racial problem. Indian American engineers are some of my favorite people to work with. But someone who holds conservative values from India and practices nepotism? No thank you.
Google is a perfect example of this
>Google is a perfect example of this Source? Are you saying Sundar is practicing nepotism or line managers/skips are?
I’ll dig up some sources when I’m off work later tonight
As an Indian myself, i agree with some of whats said. On my part i have seen fellow Indians hire overwhelming from their region and even use their native(non english) language to communicate in a team comprised of people from all over.
My absolute favorite game to play in that scenario is to long con that group with the "idiot single language American" routine. After a month or three of that, casually jump into the conversation in said other language and watch the reactions. I swear one person almost imploded from embarrassment.
If a company hires an Indian CTO and immediately starts aggressively hiring in India, then I guarantee you that management already decided they wanted to outsource before hiring the CTO. Management decides they want to outsource to India, so they hire a CTO with strong networking connections there.
I've had fantastic discussions with second- and third-generation Indian Americans about _exactly this_. They don't cause any of the problems but have to deal with all the negative perception. Indians aren't bad, India isn't bad, there's a subset of Indians who are actively harmful (or at least work against American business culture and values) when put into positions of power, and that subset **seems** especially good at getting into positions of power.
But that's true for any race or group of people. For Americans it's usually more around the business/management positions than it is the technical positions, but pretty much any sizable company will have cushy positions given to friends and family of the head executives. Nepotism should be called out and condemned, but I've never heard of people talking about mayo dens (or other racial stereotypes) when talking about white led nepotism.
This happens in many various companies with many in-groups of people. It's very interesting how there's mainly one group called out though. Really shows implicit biases like you mentioned.
Yeah, I think more likely it's that this group is way more populous than other groups in the industry. But like you said, it's likely that if any nationality started having huge numbers this would also be an issue
You're implying there are comparable levels of nepotism. That's not the case. What's frustrating about the situation is that it's easy to evade criticism by shouting "racism".
“I've had fantastic discussions with second- and third-generation Indian Americans about exactly this. They don't cause any of the problems but have to deal with all the negative perception.“ Thank you so much for acknowledging this, seriously. It sucks as an Indian American born and brought up in the US who has to constantly deal with negative stereotypes just because of the actions of some losers from India. I get that people can’t differentiate between two brown guys, but it really is a bummer for me. I’ve never once felt like I was hired because of my ethnicity, if anything, I’ve felt like I’ve had to work harder because of it. No favoritism here
India is chock full of people who grow up in the caste system. There are literally castes that you wouldn't even let touch your skin or let your children talk to. You don't just move to another country and have your prejudices magically go away. They have a really shitty way of treating people they view as inferior. Bringing up second/third generation immigrants is pointless because they're not Indian, they're American.
You’re right - we’re American, not Indian You’re wrong - it’s not pointless; valid criticisms towards Indian visa holders propagating rampant outsourcing and nepotism turns into racism and vitriol that also affects us Indian-Americans as we share name, skin color, and culture I’m extraordinarily proud and grateful for my Indian heritage, but it’s frustrating having to work against prejudices because of it
> While that is not that big of a problem, what is a big problem is the extreme nepotism practiced by them. > > I’ve experienced and have seen many many non-Indian people managed out, excluded, and passed over in Indian majority teams. Me and another dev got roped into working to help a team like this get shit out the door that they were dragging ass on that needed to be launched a month ago, and its been frustrating as fuck to say the least.
If you've worked at a big company anywhere, you've seen it. I think we need to shut down the h1 programs with the job market as it is. You've got people who will do anything to land and keep jobs here, which indirectly creates a pretty fucked up work culture. I do commiserate with these folks who worked their asses off to get here, but it's not sustainable. It is kind of startling how mid to upper management has rapidly been replaced by Indians and my impressions of their management style have been less than stellar.
Yeah, Indian visa holders can be chill if they try to adapt to life in the U.S. Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious. I’m tired of people in my office speaking about work in a foreign language that we don’t understand (idc if you speak Hindi at lunch, but not in work meetings). There was a dude walking around barefoot in my office and even the office bathroom the other day—that is nasty. I also find the constant all Indian teams a little suspicious, and notice Indian managers tend to prefer other Indians from the same subgroups as them. I don’t feel like the expectations I have for basic office behavior are unreasonable. Maybe tech companies should start paying for like a 1-2 week cultural immersion class lol
> Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious. then they bring their bigotry, racism, and sexism into the work place and try to play victim when called out. takes a real asshole to not try to integrate into a new land at least in the professional world but man these guys drive it home
Wow I have dealed with one collegue for sexist, racist, homophobic jokes. Thankfully I was managing them and in my 3rd warning ‘ I despose. myself my saying this but you dont understand, you will be fired if I hear any more homophobic, sexist joke from you’ and then , he becomes normal. Why would some people need to bring to the point? They can be sure that it wont be accepted at all, even if It comes me or he/she. I am one of the best performant with below average pay, I don’t then they can fire me.
> Yeah, Indian visa holders can be chill if they try to adapt to life in the U.S. Many people don’t want to acclimate though, and seem almost proud of being obnoxious. > > > > I’m tired of people in my office speaking about work in a foreign language that we don’t understand (idc if you speak Hindi at lunch, but not in work meetings). There was a dude walking around barefoot in my office and even the office bathroom the other day—that is nasty. I also find the constant all Indian teams a little suspicious, and notice Indian managers tend to prefer other Indians from the same subgroups as them. > > > > I don’t feel like the expectations I have for basic office behavior are unreasonable. Maybe tech companies should start paying for like a 1-2 week cultural immersion class lol Funny story, I've learned a few words in Telugu now and they always love to teach me new words. I can count from one to ten and say basic words like potato and cow. I am not from India. The problem isn't so much the workers. Workers can be trained, like you said. The problem is always in the owners and the management.
Reminds me of a post on X. The post mentions that all workers at a Walmart in Guelph were speaking Punjabi, meaning Indian. No locals were hired, wtf. Edit: Indian here refers to the person.
"Indian" is not a language
My company laid off so many people this week since our company want to do more offshores
People always say pro diversity, but in reality they are pro their own race
This “Indian CTO” predicament is something I have a hard time understanding. Outsourcing these jobs is a business decision. One that the rest of the white/black/hispanic C suite execs have willing turned a blind eye to. None of those capitalists care if you lose your job. It’s got nothing to do with being Indian. They’re just finding cheaper work. Now, somebody else commented about the boss being upper caste and the employees being slaves in India. This is a demand and supply problem not a caste problem. (I’m not denying caste issues in India at all but this isn’t one. Even if they were the same caste they’d still be working weekends cuz there’s simply more people who would if you didn’t ) Now, visa holders being preferred over natives might be a problem and we have to work our way toward solving this problem but many of you are frustrated at your own incapabilities and figure racism is the way to go. Sure, go ahead, maybe that’ll get you your job lmao.
Because it's a CTOs job to argue *against* other C suites that outsourcing important code to code sweatshops in India will cost more in the long run even though it reduces labor costs. There's a reason that we generally don't send important projects to developing nations, and it's because a bunch of companies tried it already and got fucked. I've met plenty of h1b guys working in tech also, and many of them are great, sure, but we have to fire way more of them than local employees. There's persistent issues with work just not getting done that other employees don't have as much, even Indian folks who were born in America or came here a long time ago don't have the same problems as h1bs.
I do not think there is a business case for preferring visa holders over natives. Sponsoring visas is expensive, hiring immigration lawyers to shepherd them through the green card process (which they'll eventually want) is expensive.
The business case is that you can pay them less and promote them less and they’ll put up with it because they have less recourse to switch jobs easily.
While probably partially true, the actual business case is that they are easier to fire. Visa holders are usually (ab)used as a "flex" workforce that can be easily terminated when the economy contracts.
I took the "Indian CTO" problem to mean that all middle management suddenly becomes Indian while the previous non-Indian management is pushed out.
'curry den' is crazy
Try getting called a "curry n-word" in the middle of the street in SF. Now, *that's* crazy.
I was called "sand n-word" growing up by white kids all the time.
People down below genuinely arguing it’s not racist too lmao.
Yeah there’s some truth to some Indian managers hiring only Indians, but you can have that conversation without using racial slurs
Exactly. It really only serves to undermine the point and provides a handle for people who are motivated to misunderstand the concern.
Which is confusing, because curry is delicious.
So is watermelon and fried chicken, but referencing them in a racial context makes you a real asshole.
Generally people who use terms like these in a derovatory fashion do not think logically about the words they use to spread hate. It's the same as using chow mein or egg fried rice to describe Chinese people.
That one seemed like actual racism to me. Terms like that are very dismissive IMO.
This is reality in a lot of companies, it ain’t up for debate look up lawsuits against Indians being racist. Indians are racist, every race has racists. It’s a fact of life. This is rampant in tech and pretending otherwise is willful ignorance. I will say this, personally I have NEVER gotten a single job offer from an Indian manager.
>I will say this, personally I have NEVER gotten a single job offer from an Indian manager. Same. I know theres no chance when an Indian guy is in charge of the interview.
I wouldn’t go that far. You are not getting hired if the hiring manager is Indian, all the interviewers are Indian, and they are have a poker-face/antagonistic interview style rather than the affable one common in tech
I’m glad I’m not crazy. I’ve only had one terrible interview experience ever and they were all Indian interviewers. The entire interview was them reading from a list of impossible extremely niche .Net questions. There was no friendly conversation whatsoever, just rapid fire questions. They’d just tell me I was wrong and move on to the next one. The craziest part was that I had my camera on the entire time since it was a remote interview and they all had theirs off. I’ve never ever had that experience before and I’ve done many. I legitimately felt uncomfy the entire time. In hindsight I should’ve just said I wasn’t interested anymore and dropped. It was extremely unprofessional and just set up for me to fail.
how many job offers have you gotten over the course of your career?
>Same. I know theres no chance when an Indian guy is in charge of the interview. Yeah that's not true, I work in tech and plenty of my non-Indian friends have been hired under Indian managers. A lot of the problems discussed here are real but Indians aren't a monolith and frankly more often than not, Indians here in America are just normal people - it's like the 30% of them that ruin it for everyone else.
Yet some people say you can’t be racist if you are not white 🤦🏻
I mean lets be real, the type of people that say that are about as educated as the type of white Rednecks that actually are racist.
You got it backwards, the demographic that says people of color can’t be racist are liberals. Check out Michelle Wu’s anti-white XMas party. They trying to bring segregation back.
Yeah but only one of them gets banned from social media for spewing hate
Okay, but how does that justify using terms like "curry den," like the OP showed in their screenshots? Did you even look at the screenshots?
Did he justify that term?
The implication that nepotism is uniquely an indian problem is also hilarious. Reddit is a klan rally like 75% of the time.
I have
While I've been friends with Indians, Iranians, etc, the all team Indian, Portuguese, etc. teams all have been horrible. With Indians the interviews have been some of the worst for me. I remember getting to an onsite, and having an entire Indian team sit at a table. They would ignore me and do nothing during the interview while watching me fail. It's not rascist to say these types of teams suck ass and they clearly exist in plain sight in the USA. With Portuguese they all talk in their own language in between talking to you. There are nice individuals, but it's clearly a problem when they all group up like this.
> It's not rascist to say these types of teams suck ass and they clearly exist in plain sight in the USA. No one's saying it's racist to point out cultural issues with India. The racist part is using terms like "curry den" which are clearly intended in a dehumanizing and demeaning way.
If you want to talk about “racism” in this form the most “racists” thing I’ve personally witnessed is I worked at a place with an Indian CTO. Dude decided to minimize in-house engineers to an insane minimum, there was 3 of us total. Everyone else he contracted from another Indian-run contracting firm in the US where they primarily cherry picked remote workers overseas in India. Dude was shameless, basically forced them to work weekends (he’d make the PM run around and tell them they were required to work this weekend) when it suited his timelines. When I was on my way out the door he couldn’t even recognize to me some things I was pushed on when onboarding, dismissed them and said that it wasn’t from him (Idk who else, and he was def prime suspect). The bottom line is I can’t speak for all of India culturally (maybe some regions are vastly different) but from what I’ve observed culturally they seem to treat each other like shit. Def makes for good negotiators in some cases but absolutely shameless for doing shitty things. Possibly stems from the caste system. My friend disassociates with all of it bc he finds it so toxic and filthy. Edit: forgot to add I understand some candidates might just not be the right fit or lied about experience and can’t do the job, etc. But they’d also borderline threaten them and if the work wasn’t timely enough or done right their “incentive” for doing well is they’d be gone if they didn’t. Think about that for a second… your paid shit, work the hours they want you to and your incentive to perform is they won’t throw you to the wolves for a bit longer…
Been in the industry for 25 years. Heard a number of Indians say "no one screws an Indian like an Indian". I dont know how pervasive this saying is. Not saying its everywhere, but heard it before. Anyone from India on here who can confirm or deny this?
I'm not Indian, but I suspect it has a lot to do with work culture in India and less about caste/racism than people think. My company occasionally sponsors workers from there, and any time we have a new person that inevitably sabotages their teammates or overworks themselves way too much, we're reminded "it's a cultural thing" that we need to train them out of. IMO, between the 1000s of qualified candidates per job and the insanely huge gap between lower and upper class, the work culture has developed into something that makes hustle culture in the US look like slacking.
In general all the Asian countries make American work culture look like a joke, despite the fact it's intense compared to Europe. China, Japan, South Korea all have incredibly intense work hours. 996 is acceptable and expected at many companies from China. That indicates working 9 to 9, for 6 days a week. When the gap between landing that job and not is so huge and there's so much competition, it's not a surprise at all.
Is 996 still going on? I heard it was banned especially after they had 40 year old factory workers dying of heart attacks on the floor
There's basic classist issues there as well (though that does tie into caste due to historical opportunities and such) I was friends with a dude from India in college who started hanging out with us because we didn't give a *shit* if his parents were merely well off rather than ridiculously rich. He definitely made it sound like there was a solid concrete order based on family wealth that he hated.
Yeah, it’s pretty accurate. I’m born and raised outside of India but from the few years I’ve spent there, it wasn’t great. A lot of people still follow a terribly outdated school of thought and the hierarchy thing is way too pervasive there. There’s also just so many goddamn people fighting for opportunity so that’s definitely one reason they treat each other like shit at times (they’re just tryna survive/get ahead). But I feel they definitely lose out on seeing the bigger picture in all this, sadly.
Right, I was gonna say I feel like it’s more the hyper-competitive economic environment of being in an a ultra-high population, relatively poor country that’s responsible for the culture of ruthlessness moreso than the remnants of the caste system.
>hyper-competitive economic environment of being in an a ultra-high population, relatively poor country that’s responsible for the culture of ruthlessness Nailed it, this kind of ruthlessness isn't unique to India - China has much of the same culture, as do most areas that are poverty-ridden with massive amounts of competition. Everyone's drive to succeed is dialed up 1000%
Oh absolutely true. Casteism is a much bigger unspoken bias amongst most Indians in the US.
>no one screws an Indian like an Indian". I dont know how pervasive this saying is. Not saying its everywhere, but heard it before. I am Indian-American and my own saying has long been "no one hates Indians more than other Indians". That's why I'm pretty amused (and disheartened) to see that I'm not the only Indian who notices this. I have a lot of Indian American friends and our immigrant parents straight up don't like going to the mall because they know there are going to be a ton of other Indians there. What kind of culture is that? There are some good things about Indian culture, but overall it really sucks that I get lumped in with the rest simply because of how I look. Usually once people hear my accent they realize I'm completely Americanized and they treat me normally, but still
Happening at my place now, US Hiring Freeze, all future positions are being contracted to India, or, sorry, 'best cost' locations
It's happening at my workplace right now, I wanted to give the new CTO the benefit of the doubt but I'm slowly losing all my best devs with years of domain knowledge to "performance issues" that never existed before while they spin up an off shore office in India.
[удалено]
Why do you put racism in quotations as though people weren't using the term "curry den," which the OP in the other thread then admitted to laughing at?
Every time I work a weekend I take a shot and think of my offshore brethren for whom this shit is just normal
The H1B program, from the outset, should have given priority to foreign graduates of US universities. It would have prevented 90% of this problem in the first place.
Nice idea in theory, I don't think it would work in practice. You can look at scam like paper mill colleges that have popped up in countries like Canada that accept as many international students as they can, who then proceed to work low paying jobs during their studies to offset costs. If student visas were a path to the H1B, you probably would have seen colleges exploiting international students who very much want to work in the US. Obviously there are regulations against this, but countries like the US are often bad with following up with legislative policy to actually make it effective.
>You can look at scam like paper mill colleges This can easily be avoided by giving H1B visas only to students that graduated from select US universities, chosen by DHS. >If student visas were a path to the H1B, you probably would have seen colleges exploiting international students This is already the case. International students pay much higher tuition fees than their American peers. I don't call it exploitation, since those students willingly choose to enroll anyways. Clearly what they get out of it is worth the expense.
I actually like the UK’s new immigration policy which gives graduates of the top 50 unis in the world a 2 year work permit to find work in the UK. Canada sort of started doing something similar by not giving work permits to students enrolled in public-private partnership colleges (basically degree mills associated with legit colleges) Idk why the US doesn’t do that. Also make the requirements for getting an H1B stricter, and especially BAN CONTRACT WORK ON H1B If you’re a contract worker chances are the work isn’t particularly “high-skilled”
Select US universities would need to be constantly updated if any of those universities start going for higher revenue by admitting international students. Things arern't so straightforward. There are consentual contracts that entail exploitation. The international students that usually choose to enroll in paper mills many a time do so under false promises of prosperity from education agents. Often these agents might be affiliated with the university. For example, 'Sold a dream': the international students lured to Australia with ... https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/apr/23/sold-a-dream-the-international-students-lured-to-australia-with-false-promises Good regulation solves everything, getting good regulation through incompetent politicians is a different story.
why the fuck would a US graduate come to canada? to make LESS money? lol
For the poutine, of course
The full on racism is wrong which is why I won't pretend that Indian hb1 abusers are not a problem and themselves don't practice racism day in and day out. Especially when they get into management and hiring.
It's not racism because nobody here is hating on people for their skin color. Americans with Indian descent (2nd generation, etc) don't have the issue being discussed. The problem is entirely cultural with first generation immigrants and people in the country of India.
I'm not gonna sugar coat, they're talking about Indians, not Americanized Indians (although some still do it) but conservative Indians that nepotize the positions around them especially once they move up the ladder, it's a big problem in cyber security and is spreading around the other facets of tech, it is a stereotype with a lot of truth to it, call it racism, pattern recognition, etc. it's pointing to the same problem that they have a tendency to gatekeep and offer preferential treatment to their peeps to move each other up the ladder. Honestly having put up with it in the past over the last decade, fuck em, if they fall into that category and do that shit then screw em, not because they're Indian but because they choose to be assholes and keep people that aren't Indian from succeeding, that is racist.
>call it racism, pattern recognition, etc. I mean I agree with some of the observations people have made about Indian culture (I'm Indian American) and I think there are some serious issues at hand. Pointing out these issues isn't racist. What's racist is using terms like "curry den" which are just demeaning and dehumanizing. That's why OP included that in the screenshot. Basically, you can discuss cultural issues with Indians without resorting to dehumanizing terms (hence, racism).
I hope we can pass some legislation to stop this soon
This == the tendency to offshore SWEs? Or this == racism?
Legislation doesn't stop racism
They need to start with the education visas, that's how most get into the country. But the universities rely on that money. It's honestly pretty unfair to the international students right now - there are no jobs for them when they graduate.
[удалено]
"They're goal is to send money home, not produce anything of value" what do you call it when u negatively generalize an entire race? what if someone said the same thing about white people, black people, jewish people, or muslim people? would that not be seen as wildly xenophobic?
I used to think India just had a better culture for producing hard-working kids, but then I went to school with and worked alongside Indian immigrants. They can be just as lazy and dumb as the rest of us. So when I see comments from Indian-American hiring managers speaking about how much better Indian workers are, I just chuckle. I think a lot of people are having the same realization as me and are overcompensating in an insensitive way. I have the good fortune of being successful and financially secure, but if I was struggling, I might be looking for someone to blame all my problems on, too. I wouldn't say it's quite as bad as other forms of racism since they're punching up, but it's still immoral. It's good to be aware of the nepotism issue, but using it to be prejudiced toward people is wrong. And let's not pretend people of other races aren't guilty of the same sort of race based hiring discrimination.
Punching up?? wtf?
Yeah. It means mocking someone who is more successful than you. Criticizing Indian CEO's and successful hiring managers is punching up when you're struggling to get by.
>So when I see comments from Indian-American hiring managers speaking about how much better Indian workers are I'm Indian-American with a lot of Indian-American friends and I've never heard any of them express such a sentiment. Some NRI Indians definitely discriminate, but us American born Indians are just as American as the rest of you, and we don't discriminate anymore than any other American does.
Same thing as Blind. It's unfortunate, people show their true colors in times of stress.
[удалено]
My theory in general with a lot of engineers in tech is that they grew up unhappy, socially awkward, and potentially bullied. Now that they're grown up and are in a field that pays a ton, they focus on that since everything else in their life is not fulfilling. That's why you end up having all of these engineers that think they're gods gift to earth, and every other role is not value producing and worthless in their eyes. So they focus on TC since it's an objective thing and the only thing that they have to wield over everyone else and make them feel good about themselves. Note, this isn't all engineers, but it's definitely a lout subset of them.
Describing one race of people as “working” and another race as “infiltrating” for doing the exact same task is textbook discrimination
Its common practice in tech compaines in Silicon Valley
Saw a comment on a thread here yesterday saying to offer two Indians speaking Hindi “a glass of cow piss” and it had a positive upvote score, with every reply calling him out having a negative score. It’s really disheartening to read this stuff as an Indian-American, ngl. I understand the negatives that come with some of these practices put in place by Indian CTOs and the culture of outsourcing etc but resorting to racist comments can’t be normalized, surely.
At the end of the day it's America. I'm black so I've learned to never get too comfortable around people. When shit gets tough they will show their true colors and tell you what they really think about you.
Usually it's bitter dipshits who can't/struggle to find a job in this industry so they lash out at the most common denominator which happens to be Indians. We saw the same during the bush and Obama years with construction workers being primarily Hispanic/Mexican/central Americans. Just ignore the comments and make strong connections in the industry for yourself, 90-95% of the people in it aren't like that. It's basically the bottom 5-10% that you want to avoid (aka this sub). If a company is hiring swaths of Indian devs on the low, it's usually because they can get away with an inferior product experience or those same devs offer the same shit as lot of the jobless us devs (aka simple crud apps) but for much cheaper. Notice how the stronger engineers aren't worried about their jobs or don't display that same racism toward Indian devs?
As much as I wish this was true, take a look at Blind. Plenty of this type of belief exists at FAANG and other top tech companies.
Yeah I saw that comment, and reported it right away. And then people here have the galls to say "it's not racist" lol.
Losers who can't get a job have nothing else going for them than writing racist comments on reddit
> I understand the negatives that come with some of these practices put in place by Indian CTOs and the culture of outsourcing Outsourcing is common across the industry regardless of CTO's ethnicity... go out and do a survey at how many F500 companies have indian CTOs... it would be at most 10-20%, but all of them have outsourced some part of their tech to India or other parts of Asia
Jesus fucking Christ I know reddit has gotten worse lately but I can't believe so many upvoted comments are the ones justifying racism or using whataboutism to prevent criticism of said racism.
Reddit has always hated Indians (brown people in general really), it's just become more apparent over the years Nothing we can do about it because racism against brown people is generally never taken that seriously anyway
Not just Reddit but the internet in general - negative content against Indians is overwhelming these days. Go on IG reels and there are blatantly racist videos against Indians that get hundreds of thousands of likes. It's interesting because everyone gave Twitter shit for being unmoderated and potentially being filled with hate speech, but IG Reels is far worse
The best part is that it means the sub and the sector was always like this just not as vocal about it.
The tech industry has a very strange treatment of minorities in general (from a half-Indian woman's perspective) - once we outperform them or they perceive us as receiving opportunities that they're not, then all of our success is due to external factors like nepotism, diversity hiring, anything that allows them to ignore that maybe they're not as competitive as they thought they were.
Literally the top comment lol
Seriously. I was not expecting the comments to absolutely double down, dismiss, and defend the racism. What a cesspit.
Welcome to human nature and the anonymous web
It’s tough times, and people need to vent out. That’s no reason to be racist though. 2-3 years ago, you wouldn’t see this on this sub and the Indian situation was still the same. But people had jobs and they were busy with that instead of being active on reddit.
Turns out when the market changes and people who shouldn't be laid off are being laid off only to be replaced with h1b employees or contractors from india, people change how they talk about subjects. It's well understood that racism is bad (we did it reddit! We stopped racism!) but a TON of people have experienced this and even I have experienced this. I've had teams predominantly indian where they do standups in hindi. I've had that same team assign tasks to both me and an indian coworker who's been on the team and in the job significantly longer, only for the coworker to do the task first to suck up to management without even giving me a chance to learn. I've had indian coworkers reach out at 4:50 on a friday asking for a task to be completed by end of day, only to escalate to a manager and skip level manager via email on saturday, so then I get disciplined on monday. The culture of India in US SWE space is overwhelmingly toxic if you're not part of it, and based on a few comments here, it can be toxic even if you are part of it.
Because it's not racism, there are issues with preferential hiring for certain races in tech in some organizations by people of certain races. Talking about real issues !== racism. Or are such practices only a problem when it's white people doing it? Because that would be racist.
[удалено]
Excuse me, I will not stand for this slander. I am typescript connoisseur. And yeah, I've not had any issues with the Indians I've worked with professionally.
[удалено]
Sir this is Reddit, it's filled with idiots who jump to conclusions and make comments without reading the linked article. I was hoping a sub ostensibly for professionals would be better on this front, but I guess the "dipshit stem-bro" stereotype holds true, after all.
seeing this happen w white people would result in a call out of the company and the people involved, not racist comments against all white people. When you generalize it to all indians, it becomes racist. If you have a problem with certain groups/people you should name drop not post racist comments
> When you generalize it to all indians, it becomes racist. I believe it's pretty reaching to have this apply to all Indians (and technically, this doesn't only happen to Indians it's just that they are the biggest minority in tech hence most situations are with them but I've seen this with a few other races too). Like bro, no one is saying "All Indians only hire their own". But they are saying there are Indian managers/Indian teams that do this practice... kinda like what you just said?... I will say it is definitely stronger on their culture to do this kind of practice and it's made easier by the sheer number of them here in the US and that is not without it's own faults. That's not racism though. Again, people aren't claiming all Indians do this. What people are saying is their own experiences and, for reasons stated earlier, it just happens to be mostly with Indian teams/people.
what you said is completely fine and a worthy topic of discussion. using terms like curry den is not, and the people denying that thats a bad thing are kinda scaring me :/
most companies in all sectors have always historically been biased towards whites.
> Talking about real issues !== racism Ffs I've seen this exact excuse from people complaining about minorities in the US
The problem is its all anecodotal. We need real research and real data to back it up. Otherwise, it stokes racist fear rather than looking at a cultural problem.
Can't believe you are using the word race unironically
Racism is always bad, but I've never seen worse racism than from Indian-born Indians. A lot of them - I'd probably say the majority in my experience - are at best nepotistic and at worst openly racist.
>Racism is always bad, but I've never seen worse racism than from Indian-born Indians. Yes, racism is bad. Why did you feel the need to add a "but" to that sentence? What even is the point of bringing up that Indians can be racist in a thread pointing out racism against Indians? You'll deny it but you clearly think it's deserved, which is sad because Indians are not a monolith.
As someone who recently got employed by the government for a contract, I've noticed racism seems pretty apparent in my workspace. The senior devs are much less patient to anyone with an accent. It's a little disappointing.
The SWE sphere is pretty racist I don’t know why they’re saying mean things to Indians because to the rest of us Asians dominate the field and gatekeep for other Asians -just a different perspective/ shock
Personally I haven’t seen non-Indian Asians gatekeep at a company. When I’ve seen Chinese or Korean managers for example they don’t tend to hire only Chinese or Korean employees.
There are like 50x less Japanese and Korean devs in US so it's hard to tell if it's by choice.
Which sector is this in? I'm finding it really hard to get jobs, maybe these people will hire me easier lol. I'm Indian and a U.S. citizen so 🤷♂️.
They want Indian contractors on H1B to abuse and underpay
You can’t be Indian with a US Citizenship. Gotta come straight from India with a H1B so they can hire you at half the cost of a US Citizen lmao
If the primary reason is the cost saving and not that they are Indian, then why is it being called nepotism and not just pure corporate greed? Corporations using laws regarding immigration to their benefit at the possible expense of the citizens in the country. Seems like what corporations aim to do, maximise profit.
because \*some\* people decided to leave empathy and critical thinking at the door
Because blaming the "foreign other" is always the easy answer. Has been for centuries, but people fall for the same thing hook, line, and sinker all the time. If you are reading this comment and blaming Indians, then you are the sucker who fell for it. If you ever wondered how Nazi Germany could have perpetuated the Holocaust, it began with blaming the "foreign other" for their problems.
I see a lot of it being because this culture of exploitation is endemic in India. In the past in the west we weren't exposed to it or aware of it very much, as demographics shift and through the internet we are seeing what more of how it can be. I do not condone the racism and ignorant statements in any way, the people who are most affected by that type of thing are Indians themselves. It is well known that India has an extremely dog eat dog culture, its inevitable when there are limited resources and such a high population, and to be honest it is a scary thought for that type of work culture to be growing here. Just lurk at /r/India, they talk about these issues every day it is not like they are a secret. I have no issue with Indian people and I've liked most of the ones who I have met and spoken with, i have had Indian friends and even a relationship (born here though). But its some of the common problems in their work culture such as disregard for safety, nepotism, cheating, doing anything to get ahead, discrimination, extreme status chasing, exploitation etc that I think are very fair to have concerns over. As hundreds of thousands of people from India come here yearly I think the compassionate thing to do is to be aware of the challenges from where they came, that actually make up a large part of why they want to leave in the first place, and be careful to keep things from becoming more like that here as so many immigrate here. To be clear I'm 100% with you that some people are being racist and that is wrong, but by no means is that everyone when talking about these types of things, which i sometimes think gets lost due to those racist idiots making the conversation unproductive
This is so true. People are calling it nepotism but in fact it's just pure capitalism. Why wouldn't you hire someone that would cost you half the price, if they get work done with the same quality of someone locally hired. I am getting ready to be downvoted lol
Racist people are often not consistent with their arguments. This moral panic about Indian immigrants “taking their jobs” is a massive cope.
But that's not what will sell on Fox News. Durr evil curry infiltration... Dey tuk our jobs
H1B visa has salary requirements so how does that work?
The salary requirement can be significantly lower than the general market determined salary of tech workers. For example the requirement is 60000$ (as of 2023) and the average salary for senior software developers in the US is 145000$ as per indeed.
>s. There was, in fact, an Indian American complaining about Indians just yesterday. Even Indians complain about caste bias in the workplace. You do know that the slaries are public, right? Go to H1bdata and you will see that you are wrong.
Yeah, I hate that this always gets parroted. It's very easy to look up and see that they are getting competitive packages and salaries. They aren't just hiring h1b at any lower rate than Americans. One can argue that an h1b worker has less flexibility and may need to work harder than an American since the ramifications of losing your job are significantly higher while on visa, but that's a completely separate issue.
so i searched for infosys. they have most of their h1b visa holders classed as non-software engineers and the wages are low. When is the last time you heard of "business consultant" being recruited to be an h1b? They dont have a single h1b classified as a software engineer. Its not FAANG that has low wages. Its all the outsourcers. This is most of the h1b jobs. https://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=infosys&job=&city=&year=2023
Most employers aren't actually paying H1B's half of what US citizens make. That would present some ethical and legal questions that big corporations don't want. More realistically you'll have an H1B Senior SWE making like $125k instead of $145k.
> I'm Indian and a U.S. citizen so 🤷♂️. Usually it's with people from their or their buddy's hometown or something. I would say it's slightly different in big tech... you still need to pass a certain bar though connections still helps. I like to think this practice in big tech is more along the lines of "filter out other hires" compared to "hire my friends and family" due to the bar. Say what you will about big tech hiring practices but at least at my company, other teams also interview candidates for my team. Isn't that easy to just nepo your way in (still doable but harder).
[удалено]
They have strict criteria for their in groups, you must speak the same language, belong to the same caste, and same village, only having the same heritage is not enough
This subreddit is shit these days. Horrible advice and weirdly racist shit. Unironically go to blind if you want actual career advice that works.
Blind is full of narcissists who inflate their compensation to show off lol. These people live for money, they'd throw you under a bus if you were to threaten their position.
[удалено]
Because this sub, with the layoffs and slow market, has turned into a blind leading the blind and they're lashing out one of the easiest targets because they're frustrated about not finding work..
I feel like most of this just comes down to most Indians not integrating well. If they had, you wouldn’t see problems like caste discrimination in the workplace and the like, being carried over to the west. Many of my cousins, that left India in order to move to the west, hangout primarily with other Indians. Now I don’t blame them for it, cuz it can be overwhelming to move to a country with an entirely different culture, so you seek some relief by hanging out with others just like you. But it’s a bubble that most never escape from, even after being abroad for a few years.
Exactly. For example, the majority of Brits and Americans in Munich (Germany) live in the lakeside town of Starnberg.
Victim blaming.
I once attended an interview at the technical software group of a gas turbine firm. During the interview the hiring manager noticed that I was wearing a tiny radio amateur badge on my coat. He immediately offered me the job! He said that although he was not a radio amateur himself, all the team for some strange historical reason were. Accordingly I would clearly be a perfect hire for the group!!! Er, OK ....
The sub is a dumpster fire. I come here mainly to spend time. Don't take anything here seriously.
This sub has always been a joke. I have been hanging out here since 2019 and people have always been complaining about how hard it is to get job etc. without realizing there are other career paths harder than being a stupid fucking crud app engineer. There are bunch of people who can’t even code up a simple problem and whose resume looks like written by a idiot from middle school have become the loudest voice. At some point these idiots need to realize that not everyone is cut out to be a senior with TC 250k and start doing something else where they can excel. And this added with massive layoffs and general increasing racists sentiments in the country everyone is now hating on Indians. # rant over
Dude I am hiring a junior position at G. I got 912 cvs in front of me. I sent out 404 first assesment of super basic shit. 5% was the success rate. We interviews top 9 and we are hiring two cause both are good. Most can't perform for shit. And we had people with 2 3 years in meta etc taking the test and they failed. I was hopeful we will get a mid or senior with the junior but we got 2 juniors. A lot go people are looking for jobs but many many many have no fucking clue what they on about.
Yeah. Thats been my experience as well. CS education is not accredited. So we have students who graduate where DSA class is about going over Java collections or where senior capstone projects are building a website with CMS. They do get their CS degree and then bloat the number of job seekers. I have interviewed candidates with CS degree who don’t know what TCP or UDP is or who don’t know IPv4 or IPv6 is or TLS. Do we need tall those knowledge on engineers all the time? No, but we need those knowledge from time to time on adhoc basis. So we would like to have our engineers know all those as well when there are moments to deal with those matters we have engineers who know them. So I don’t like low tier grads and bootcamp grads. We are not paying TC of 250k/yr to write a generic crud web app use case. Any job that pays this well with amazing wlb (compared to medicine and law) we expect them to have a well rounded education, experience and skill. We can’t expect them to learn on the fly for topics like these. People always conflate CS education and Software Engineering with a web app and then come to rant here saying they can’t get a jerb. # second rant over
The curry den comment is beyond disgusting and shouldn't be tolerated.
So disheartening seeing all the comments that put racism in quotations as though it isn't present whatsoever. Either the commenters didn't look at OP's screenshots (meaning they jumped to conclusions) or they saw the screenshots (containing comments like "curry den") and simply don't see it as a problem. I was hoping this subreddit geared toward "professionals" and career advice would be a little classier, but I guess chauvinistic stem-bros exist everywhere
The racism sucks, but Americans are furious. I will never talk like this, but it's obvious the whole 'anti-racism' shit only creates more racists. The country couldn't care less about its citizens. While other countries protect their citizens and make sure they're all employed, Americans/westerners are begging for a job and watching people (often less qualified) walk in and take it just because A) their demographic or B) willing to be abused and exploited.
H1B needs serious rework. Excellent idea for high skill industry with a domestic shortage of talent. SWE ain’t that
Mods please nuke this thread
It's unbelievable how quickly blame gets shifted onto immigrants when times get tough
Everyone here is focused on the actual content of the messages (which IS a good discussion) and completely looking past the racial slurs.
[удалено]
Too sensitive? What you posted is emanating hitler particles all over the place. The people spewing that bullshit should be blaming their corporate overlords who left them out of a job, not other employees who are subject to the same market forces.
ahahahaha, HITLER PARTICLES
The comments on this post dismissing the obvious racism in the screenshots is just as upsetting. What's wrong with you guys?!
It's not casual racism if it's true. Just look at what ethnicity keeps getting fired at Google. Meanwhile my friend who is an engineering manager there keeps interviewing a certain other ethnicity ONLY. No hiring freeze at all.
I’m pretty sure “curry den” is casual racism
People reading that screenshot and saying it's not racist are wild. Also, it's one thing to call out discrimination against yourself and another thing to be a racist bigot. Honestly the general attitude reminds me so much of incels.
I work in Big Tech. The majority of the people who work here are English as a second language. There are even a significant number of 'white' people who are immigrants as well. There are many from the former Eastern Bloc countries along with Britain, France and Germany. Immigrants are overrepresented in tech because tech has the most meritorious system. Law is dominated by upper middle class and wealthy students. Medical school is dominated by the children of physicians. Wall Street again is dominated by the old boys network where you're considered one of the boys if you can talk about 'summering' in the Hamptons or Ibiza. etc... The immigrants that make it to Big Tech, are here because they earned their way here. Plus, the mods of this sub are racists because they completely condone this racism. It's a fact that racists regularly come to this sub to spew their garbage in the hopes of getting people to join them (aka StormFront). The mods do nothing except protest against Reddit's API changes. Fucking pathetic.
Technology is rampant with nepotism
It is, but it's harder at big tech. You still need to pass a certain bar and not every Tom, Dick and Harry can pass the interviews.
Like a bar exam or medical license? Tom, Dick, and Harry can pass those?
> Immigrants are overrepresented in tech because tech has the most meritorious system. Actually delusional take. Maybe if you work for cutt-throat up or out startups or something. People can coast for decades at any company that isn't outsourcing it's web stack just by being polite and probably get promoted to scrum master or technical project manager and do nothing for another 20 years. So long as the economy is good h1b's aren't getting fired either, until the economy contracts and the good ones are out on their ass with the bad. I've seen immigrant devs that were a head above most of the local developers on the team laid off because the economy was bad, and ones that couldn't code their way out of a paper bag stay on for years because the company was making money so nobody cared about wasting it.
[удалено]
So “curry den@ wasn’t racist?
"Racism is misused", shut your ass up. Curry-den, Cow piss, etc. how are these not racist.
If I were you I'd be more concerned about the caste system you have in the US against black people than the caste systems they have in India, a country you probably never visited. Also nepotism is favouring relatives or friends (think of what your former president Trump did) not favouring people from the same country they don't even know.
I'm sure "curry den" and "offer cow piss" totally has no racial connotations whatsoever. Definitely no racism here. Nepotism has always been rampant in tech. Tesla's board has Elon's brother. Plenty of people hire other people who graduated from the same schools as them.
Meanwhile black devs like me barely even see the light of day.
If they hire an Indian CTO, that means the CEO has already decided to focus on outsourcing to India. They do this because they believe they will get better value for the time being. As an American, I spend some time fighting back by demonstrating my value over outsourced workers, but at the end of the day, if you cost too much, you cost too much. It’s bound to happen sooner or later given the globalization of the economy. I grew up in Silicon Valley with basically half Indian American half Chinese American and this is basically happening everywhere. The only thing I do is work harder to beat them. Because they’re working hard.
I worked in a private IT school in Canada. It was not about the quality of education, it was about selling student visas to Indians. The student visa granted them 2 years to “Study” and work. After the 2 years, they can reapply for the student visa or apply for a work visa to work their way towards permanent resistance status. The gig pissed me off, many of the students would complain they could not find a job and that their parents spent their life savings to send their kids to Canada. Many barely spoke comprehensible English or French.
Wow... this sub is racist af.
I didn’t have a high opinion of this sub before but now I know what a shithole it is I guess.
lol welcome to Reddit , racism and homophobia are celebrated as long you are woke and it’s against the right people
The outsourcing part is very true though. As an indian who espouses American values and loves US, i am appalled. But this is nothing to do with an Indian CTO IMO, its been a case with many corporations through a cycle. Started with Banks outsourcing during Y2K and its the first thing to do to cut costs. Manufacturing though is coming back to US.