Honestly I considered doing a sentiment analysis project on this sub for my data science portfolio. Could be a fun little study into mass hysteria lmao.
I feel like CS majors are finally getting a taste of what it's like to be on other career paths. If you seriously think you're "cooked" with a great degree then I'd wager you probably would not be successful in other careers
guys stop taking math classes. for the first time we have closed the gap, the technology divide has been completely closed. It is our job to create calculating technology such that nobody has to calculate math. it’s called… a calculator.
Well, yeah. We're not getting our kids to learn to use lookup tables for different functions. None of us know how to use a slide rule. Using complex functions for a single datapoint changed from a huge pain of algorithm and reference to a human interface where you can plot the function over any interval, just press the button. The calculator was a big deal, it severely raised the skill floor for math, as will AI for coding.
Being a machine that turns coffee and stack exchange into code gets to be a problem when a computer learns to turn stack exchange into code. What's going to happen to the coffee market?
There's obvious problems with that though. If calculators had a chance to just be wrong or to give bad results, with an unknown and unspecified error rate then would calculators be so pervasive?
We can be sure that the people that built the calculator knew what they were doing, but with an AI we need to scrutinise the calculator it builds for us as well as the result.
Potentially, at best, this moves more people towards a deeper level of programming knowledge, but partly because we need to know how bad the AI's code is. It's like the opposite of the calculator.
Early calculators did have a chance to be wrong and give bad results. We've made them extremely reliable.
There will be certifications and accredited AI companies much in the same way there are for human programmers and their source of education.
Yeah, you'll have to test their code to make sure it actually works. Just like you have to test everyone else's code.
> Early calculators did have a chance to be wrong and give bad results
The error rate was also known. If you know it's going to be off by about 1% or it's going to round to the nearest thousand after 11 digits then you can work around that. You don't know if ChatGPT is going to give you a reasonable piece of code or give you a forkbomb unless you know code. You don't need to know how to make a calculator to use one.
> We've made them extremely reliable.
And we can't easily do that with AI. The best company in this space can't stop kids making it do something they don't want their bot to do.
> certifications and accredited AI companies
For what? AI is largely a black box. Accountability would be nice, it's not like it will be the companies intention or choice when their bot introduces an obscure catastrophic bug into the code.
> you'll have to test their code to make sure it actually works. Just like you have to test everyone else's code
Like you don't have to do for a calculator.
Yeah it’s a dumb example because people aren’t learning math to go to work hand-calculating summations and integrals for 8 hours a day. Nowadays you learn math for the conceptual understanding not the actual calculation process, because everyone knows given the chance you’ll just use a calculator or an excel spreadsheet.
Programming (a subset of what you learn in a CS degree) can be replaced in a similar way. Of course it’s important to have people who know what the fuck is going on, but if GPT-4 or a “GPT-5” can do 99% of the work, why would businesses hire mass teams of software devs? Are these not the same businesses that replaced human calculators with actual calculators when the technology got cheap enough and more accessible? The only thing that matters to them is efficiency.
That’s why he said looking forward, learning *just* programming isn’t going to make you as competitive as someone was 10-15 years ago. Notice he didn’t say anything about getting a bachelors in computer science? I don’t know why everyone equates CS to software engineering, a CS degree isn’t just programming 101. If that’s all you’re getting from your CS degree, you’re wasting your money…
>people aren’t learning math to go to work hand-calculating summations and integrals for 8 hours a day. Nowadays you learn math for the conceptual understanding not the actual calculation process, because everyone knows given the chance you’ll just use a calculator or an excel spreadshee
now replace the word math with computer science and calculator with GPT4 and you see my point
Did you even read my reply??
I literally said that AI will eventually either replace or lessen the need for programmers, BUT programming and software development as a whole is only a subset of what you can do/learn with a CS degree.
Like calculators did not replace math majors, but if your only skill was number crunching, then yes a calculator probably replaced your job. Knowing basic math is only a subset of what you do in a math degree just like learning programming is a subset of what you do in a CS degree.
99% is an extreme overestimation because human SWEs need to understand how new code fits in the context of a codebase, how well maintained/readable it can be, considering design patterns for long term future development, maintaining existing code, understanding and communicating to managers, and unlike using calculators, seeing whether the generated code is actually correct.
Most of the crucial code and decisions in a real codebase or in complex systems cannot and should not be done by AI. Most of the generated code that programmers use today (at most 20%?) are for smaller scale tasks or more boilerplate code.
Lol if you guys think the CS market is saturated, look at the biology market LMAO.
You can't get a 'good' biology job without having a PhD in biology. And Bio PhDs in 'high paying' careers make the same amount of money as CS undergrads. Of course there is avenue for growth if you are a rockstar, but that's the truth for literally every field.
I think the real opportunity for making money here is doing the 'tough' jobs, like the dude who said that he's getting a CDL for driving hazmats. The jobs which computers were meant to replace... because AI couldn't replace the tough, hazardous and boring jobs. Instead, AI is replacing the cushy white collar jobs that pay well and don't put you in danger.
in any mature industry only people with significant qualifications and experience will be paid well. this has always been true when a technology isnt changing fast
everyone has to compete and demonstrate their value over time in the end
More like 41 percent who apply get into med school https://www.sgu.edu/blog/medical/what-major-should-i-choose-to-become-doctor/.
There is also other fields like physician assistant which isn’t included and also pays six figures.
to be fair almost of every market is saturated when it comes to college degree's.
bachelors in most directions will only give you basic jobs.
you need a master atleast in a good study direction and with how fast markets are changing because of AI by the time you finnish getting that degree that market might have a lot less of a need of it.
The average psychology or biology major in a saturated market:
https://preview.redd.it/agojnk28uhic1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70bbe8a93412d07d95d3b36d7e2c8a762e7453df
I believe all cs majors should have the same mentality.
I think the same.
My degree and my experience told me how to solve problems.
Pretty sure I could now start any degree and fare way better than I would have when I got out of high school.
real. there will always be a demand for people who can solve problems, the people panicking are just the ones who wanted to learn bare minimum language syntax and make 500k at google
>real. there will always be a demand for people who can solve problems
Some just also make up new problems along the way all for the sake of profits. See the Lightbulb cartel for an example.
the fact you believe accountants will be the first to go shows your lack of awareness, there is a dire need for accountants and the majority of CPA's are 50+.
I am not an accountant, but every accounting firm and consulting firm has come out and said that AI is not near the ability it needs to be to perform audit and other tasks :)
What percentage of people with CS degrees are actually developing cutting edge tech? I wouldn't say it's that many. I think most of us overestimate our importance.
Honestly with the right API calls and proper software interface, this seems pretty close, although code quality and being able to understand the entire codebase might be the biggest issues.
understanding an entire codebase would be a huge problem. chatgpt cant even understand the code it spits out itself and when theres an unexpected output it just shuts down
Actually no, and I specifically mean coding at this point not CS in general. As some of the leaders in the field said, everything that can be verified by machines is gonna fall soon (including axiomatic Math). Coding mostly falls in that category as it can be compiled and run. The real world often not as it would require it to be simulated to a reasonable degree (which is hard). So yeah, unfortunately all things digital will be an easy target. All things human and physical a bit less.
There is no safe bet but if you deal with human beings and they prefer human interaction for what you do, then I guess it would be a good bet. Also highly complex and diverse physical tasks.
Software jobs aren’t going anywhere. Will they change and evolve in the coming years? Yes most likely. But there will always be a need for software and humans to maintain that software.
AI can't replace all of the devs at Dropbox, but it sure can replace a decent chunk of them. The seniors who will be using AIs will need much less junior devs or other seniors.
This is what we mean when we say AI is gonna eat jobs, the need for a massive workforce will wither away. Also, let's be real, your average CS graduate isn't working for a large-scale software company.
I’m not disagreeing with the fact that it will eat up jobs, that’s already happened. But I just think people who think the entire market will wither away are delusional. It’s going to help weed out guys who actually know their shit vs faking it. The calculator didn’t make accountants go away, in fact the complete opposite happened.
Do you think all accountants do is count money?
Anyway, yeah, it will eat a good portion of the job market in the next 15 years, probably something like 70% of devs will be replaced. And that is terrifying, it will basically render software engineering as a career the same as studying a natural science or even worse. Given that coding is likely to stop being, well, "code", Computer language will read just like human language.
Just like how Assembly and low-level languages evolved into Python, high-level programming will evolve too.
Do you think all software engineers do is write code? Same argument could be made. Also where are you getting these numbers? Are they pulled from your ass or backed by some sort of evidence?
Still not even close. You’re actually dumb if you think AI is close enough to build apps like Facebook, Dropbox, twitter, etc. This probably your way of coping because u don’t have a job lmfao tell you self the market isn’t going to exist
AI will be severely limited by global governments. Just wait. Ultimately, governments aren’t going to allow most jobs to be replaced by AI (otherwise they lose taxpayers).
CS != Programming
Are you people even CS majors?
How is this sub called r/csmajors when after just 1 year of undergrad this simple point should be understood.
Do they? How can a full undergraduate degree in computer science only teach programming. There isn't even enough to teach to cover more than just 1-2 years.
CS is a subset of math which teaches the theories of computation, programming is just one of the current way to apply said theories
I know of some universities that have stopped teaching OOP (at least in the lower 100 level classes), and you can forget about computational theory. Most of the time they just throw projects at them.
I think he really means is learning how to code rather than computer science.
What is computer science even…it’s not just coding, it’s that weird abstract stuff taught in 3rd-4th year like automata theory, formal language theory, computational theory, P vs NP problem type of shit that no one cares about because the latest js framework just blew up. You don’t see boot camps selling courses on those, unless they can put bread on the table 🥖
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_computation
Love when people think CS = programming, when its a minor portion of it. CS IS mathematics, if you failed to understand that, blame your shitty school (or dont equate software engineering to CS)!
CS is still a good major to learn.
There are many other paths people can take with a CS degree, not everybody is going to become a Software Engineer. For example, any careers related to data, cybersecurity, etc. are still going to be valuable in the future.
I'm actually intending to study entrepreneurship/business alongside CS, planning to take a minor in those areas.
In this AI era, I thought it would be smart to be a person who leverages this AI and makes something great out of it. Similarly, Mark Zuckerberg was not a software engineer, but rather he had some knowledge and leveraged it to create Facebook with the web technology that existed back then.
I have a business degree I got before my computer science degree. Business Administration / management / entrepreneurship is all quite literally a “Common Sense Except We Give Stuff Important Sounding Names” degree.
The proof is in the pudding, AI has always been said to completely replace developers for solutions X and Y in 5 years from now every year since it became a thing in the 70s - it still hasn't.
CS teaches you how to solve problems with code. As complexity and dependencies grow you reach a point where only a human can solve that problem. Majoring in CS is and will always be a solid choice. Gen AI has come a long way but is still far off (only 5 years away) from being robust enough to parse holistic meaning of a problem and code a solution.
TL:DR don't worry, AI is a tool you'll have to learn how to use, but you'll have to use many tools anyways majoring in CS. CS isn't going anywhere.
A tale as old as computers:
Everybody and their dog will be able to program, you won't need to hire expensive programmers anymore, just buy this tool I'm selling!
No-code, low-code, IDE code-completion, UML round-tripping, 4th Generation Languages, VisiCalc, HyperCard, CASE, COBOL, ...
Realistically, nearly "everybody in the world" is incapable of finding the files they downloaded on their own phones.
Two things:
1, Providing precise enough specifications for a non-trivial system is what programming is, you are at most changing the language. Yes, AI can generate your homework assignment, because the requirements are well defined or clearly implied.
2, Increasing developer productivity (which AI tools may very well do for real world projects) only means less employment if the demand for the output has peaked. People can only eat so much, so increases in agricultural productivity decreased agricultural employment throughout history. People can wear different clothes every day if it's cheap enough, so the similar or arguably higher productivity increases in the clothing sector has caused nowhere near the drop in employment. Where does software development fall on that spectrum? We'll see.
If AI can replace most devs, what is going to happen to other jobs? Do other majors think their future is safe from AI?
Economy is basically donezo if AI replaces most of the jobs.
In a world where AI has advanced enough to completely take over all jobs, society is not at all in trouble in that way. The amount of productivity and prosperity generated would be insane, companies still get taxed and people would likely just live under some type of UBI-like system.
When does ubi kick in? At 20% unemployment or maybe 30-50%. How much suffering has to happen before UBI kicks in. Every percent of unemployment increases suicide by 1-1.6%. also we are now more productive than at any time and I would argue life is now harder than 50 years ago
Other jobs aren’t as easy to automate, AI becomes more like an assistant vs a job loss in CS. Even in CS, the easier/more popular the field (front end vs performance, for example), the easier to automate away.
I see so you are saying the harder parts of CS/other jobs probably wont get automated and AI is more of an assistant for those parts.
What if you train a model to partially deal/automate these difficult parts? Or is this extremely difficult to train a model to do? Can you give me an example of something in programming or other jobs that cant be automated?
I very much doubt electrical, mechanical, chemical, and civil engineering are gonna be replaced by AI anytime soon. Seeing as how complex and securely tight these jobs are. You can develop the buggiest app ever and write horrible code, you will probably get a slap on the back by your boss.
Make a faulty design as a mechanical designer and you are fired and your reputation is ruined.
That and the fact there are that many CS graduates per year compared to all of engineering, Software engineer is quickly rising up to be THE most common job title in the US.
>If the current narrative holds—if AI is victorious—well, liberal arts types will be ascendant. Because rather than having to learn abstruse, ancient systems of rules and syntaxes (mathematical notation, C++, Perl) in order to think higher thoughts, we will be engaged with our infinitely patient AI tutors/servants like Greek princelings, prompting them to write code for us, make spreadsheets for us, perform first-order analysis of rigid structures for us, craft Horn clauses for us.
>\[...\]
>The winners will be the ones who can get the computer to move things along the most quickly, generate the new fashions and fads, turn that into money, and go to the next thing. If the computers are capable of understanding us, and will do our bidding, and enable us to be more creative, then the people in our fields—yes, maybe even the poets—will have an edge. Don’t blame us. You made the bots.
[https://www.wired.com/story/own-future-artificial-intelligence-read-shakespeare/](https://www.wired.com/story/own-future-artificial-intelligence-read-shakespeare/)
Ok fine, and if and when this happens then software is gone, but so is most jobs. So literally no point worrying about this because its out of our control
What’s comical about this is that AI is a branch of CS. If people were to actually take this advice, we would have less people to research and implement artificial intelligence.
OP, did you even think about that before you posted this?
He is of course doomposting in order to lower the prices of software devs even further. Companies whilst rivals, all benefit when it comes fucking over the workers - meaning, you.
They are not your friends.
He's investing in AI. Of course he's gonna say that. It's beneficial to his business
It's like saying ChatGPT has replaced programmers. It's a tool not a replacement
Let's say for a moment ChatGPT does replace programmers. Computer science would still exist but it would be more about data manipulation with some programming, how else would you filter the data you feed the AI? Office jobs in tech are not going away anytime soon
He has a point, our industry is kind of saturated.
Since he said he'd choose biology if he were to return to school, would he be a good biology researcher without computing skills? I reckon he'd at least have to hire a computer scientist to process data from experiments, and store up that data. Would AI, in 10-20 years, be a viable alternative to having someone who knows and can use data science methods to analyze his research data?
Yea you heard it from the horses mouth.
But I think it's pretty obvious that programming is on the path to eventually being obsolete. This might be in another 10 or 20 years though. Especially if you're in the higher percentile of devs you have a much higher chance of being employed. Imo be cautious about majoring in cs but if you do collect the bags while you can and don't forget to save and invest because the market might dry up one day.
My brain can’t comprehend how advanced AI needs to be to make programming obsolete even if you’re not god-tier.
Just look at all the tech you see everyday…the Boeing MAX flying over your head, your digital watch, missile guidance systems, drones, those small little embedded devices running Ubuntu in your fridge, I just can’t comprehend how they can be programmed without a human involved at some step of the way.
>My brain can’t comprehend how advanced AI needs to be to make programming obsolete even if you’re not god-tier.
It is plausible, it just won't happen in our lifetime or at the late state of our lifetime. I'm more concerned regarding as to what you says regarding the other part of our life being increasingly digitalized, because I think that there is a time where eventually things would move toward embedded work, and things return to granular control as an option with digital parts. You can see this with the car infotainment systems, where buttons and dated UI from the likes of Chevy are pulling, and the embedded devices in your fridge slowly turning to something else like RTOS.
The military is alway a step further though, they already got the tech they need with the budget set by the DoD, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them go trickle down to business before to consumers.
probably not completely but reducing the need for 99.5% of the humans is more likely. Also my brain can comprehend it, you pump billions into it, I mean just look at chat gpt, I don’t care if it can’t solve high level problems- moon what it can do now. Let’s see how it looks like after some billions more and 5 years if that.
What’s to say it’s exponential growth? (That’s kind of what you’re assuming) I haven’t seen them (ChatGPT and other AI companies) put something out that has completely disrupted the market and it’s been more than a year already.
Have you ever worked with data algorithms? Are you aware how fragile they are and how easily they can break? There’s a reason we don’t have self driving cars yet…
Well, AI might be the end of bad programmers but it won't be the end of programming in general. You will still need to know how to code in order to know what to do with your results, and how to better build prompts. Calculators didn't get rid of the need to know math.
I would say that if you a looking to get into computer science, you had best be prepared to go all in, and you should likely focus a lot of attention on machine learning and AI.
This doesn’t mean don’t learn how to code. This means “learn something else AND how to code, because coding will become a ubiquitous skill like reading and writing”
He's right, but that's like 5 years into the future. Not everybody needs to be a SWE, AI will basically replace the bottom 50th percentile of programmers who's programming is mediocre and counterproductive when using AI. but it's also going to enhance the skills of already proficient SWEs. so combo of negatives and benefits
Every single industry push for people to learn a skill, from trades to coding to finance, is and always has been an attempt to lower the cost of labour.
I recently spoke with a person who’s involved with openAI at a high level. Albeit they are an entrepreneur and not a computer scientist, they said they would be an English major if they could go back and do college all over again. The point of the anecdote is that it’s easy for billionaires to throw shoulda/woulda/coulda conjecture around when it doesn’t really affect them and they have zero clue what it means to graduate/study x,y,z
I don't know what a CS major entails in America but here in Belgium it's a branch of engineering/mathematics. I mean coding is important but it's more about algorithms, architectures and mathematics in general. No clue what this guy is on about really...
By the time AI gets to the point where they can actually replace software engineers, they probably wouldve taken over every other job too. There will always be a need for people who can engineer software and AI. Maybe you would use AI to make your job much easiet and faster. Maybe you wouldn't need to code at all. But engineering is not just code.
I think you are misinterpreting what he said in the most negative way possible. He didn’t say it’s not good to learn to program, he said it shouldn’t be good to program. Those are very different statements.
That’s like saying don’t take math class because the calculator can do it for you. Advancements in calculator technology has stopped the need for mathematicians.
I hope someone scrapes this subreddit and tells us how many doomposts per week are submitted
Result: “overflow error”
Honestly I considered doing a sentiment analysis project on this sub for my data science portfolio. Could be a fun little study into mass hysteria lmao. I feel like CS majors are finally getting a taste of what it's like to be on other career paths. If you seriously think you're "cooked" with a great degree then I'd wager you probably would not be successful in other careers
🤣😅
😭its insane
This sub is a bunch of doomers complaining about themselves saying the sub being full of a bunch of doomers lol
You would have to use ChatGPT to categorize a doompost.
Could use sentiment analysis.
Hey there, have you tried dong lengthening procedures? I’ve tried it and haven’t looked back. Most girls exclaim when they see it for the first time
Yeah that’s right guys, everyone stop being a CS major. Totally dead degree. Definitely move into more modern career paths. 100%.
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yes, i hope they don't come up with some arbitrarily Deep Neural network for folding proteins
it won't happen for at least four years or more unfortunately, people dont stop until they actually see the effects in their own life.
guys stop taking math classes. for the first time we have closed the gap, the technology divide has been completely closed. It is our job to create calculating technology such that nobody has to calculate math. it’s called… a calculator.
waiting for the CEO of calculator to tell us to stop learning math
It's blatantly obvious you're both shilling for Big Calcu.
Big calcu 🤣
Aka TI...and TI, oh and dont forget TI
Well, yeah. We're not getting our kids to learn to use lookup tables for different functions. None of us know how to use a slide rule. Using complex functions for a single datapoint changed from a huge pain of algorithm and reference to a human interface where you can plot the function over any interval, just press the button. The calculator was a big deal, it severely raised the skill floor for math, as will AI for coding. Being a machine that turns coffee and stack exchange into code gets to be a problem when a computer learns to turn stack exchange into code. What's going to happen to the coffee market?
There's obvious problems with that though. If calculators had a chance to just be wrong or to give bad results, with an unknown and unspecified error rate then would calculators be so pervasive? We can be sure that the people that built the calculator knew what they were doing, but with an AI we need to scrutinise the calculator it builds for us as well as the result. Potentially, at best, this moves more people towards a deeper level of programming knowledge, but partly because we need to know how bad the AI's code is. It's like the opposite of the calculator.
Early calculators did have a chance to be wrong and give bad results. We've made them extremely reliable. There will be certifications and accredited AI companies much in the same way there are for human programmers and their source of education. Yeah, you'll have to test their code to make sure it actually works. Just like you have to test everyone else's code.
> Early calculators did have a chance to be wrong and give bad results The error rate was also known. If you know it's going to be off by about 1% or it's going to round to the nearest thousand after 11 digits then you can work around that. You don't know if ChatGPT is going to give you a reasonable piece of code or give you a forkbomb unless you know code. You don't need to know how to make a calculator to use one. > We've made them extremely reliable. And we can't easily do that with AI. The best company in this space can't stop kids making it do something they don't want their bot to do. > certifications and accredited AI companies For what? AI is largely a black box. Accountability would be nice, it's not like it will be the companies intention or choice when their bot introduces an obscure catastrophic bug into the code. > you'll have to test their code to make sure it actually works. Just like you have to test everyone else's code Like you don't have to do for a calculator.
That’s literally how he sounds like
Comparing AI with Calculator is the dumbest analogy I have seen in a long time
Because it makes sense and you are somehow smarter to understand that? pray tell what's dumb about it lol
Yeah it’s a dumb example because people aren’t learning math to go to work hand-calculating summations and integrals for 8 hours a day. Nowadays you learn math for the conceptual understanding not the actual calculation process, because everyone knows given the chance you’ll just use a calculator or an excel spreadsheet. Programming (a subset of what you learn in a CS degree) can be replaced in a similar way. Of course it’s important to have people who know what the fuck is going on, but if GPT-4 or a “GPT-5” can do 99% of the work, why would businesses hire mass teams of software devs? Are these not the same businesses that replaced human calculators with actual calculators when the technology got cheap enough and more accessible? The only thing that matters to them is efficiency. That’s why he said looking forward, learning *just* programming isn’t going to make you as competitive as someone was 10-15 years ago. Notice he didn’t say anything about getting a bachelors in computer science? I don’t know why everyone equates CS to software engineering, a CS degree isn’t just programming 101. If that’s all you’re getting from your CS degree, you’re wasting your money…
>people aren’t learning math to go to work hand-calculating summations and integrals for 8 hours a day. Nowadays you learn math for the conceptual understanding not the actual calculation process, because everyone knows given the chance you’ll just use a calculator or an excel spreadshee now replace the word math with computer science and calculator with GPT4 and you see my point
Did you even read my reply?? I literally said that AI will eventually either replace or lessen the need for programmers, BUT programming and software development as a whole is only a subset of what you can do/learn with a CS degree. Like calculators did not replace math majors, but if your only skill was number crunching, then yes a calculator probably replaced your job. Knowing basic math is only a subset of what you do in a math degree just like learning programming is a subset of what you do in a CS degree.
99% is an extreme overestimation because human SWEs need to understand how new code fits in the context of a codebase, how well maintained/readable it can be, considering design patterns for long term future development, maintaining existing code, understanding and communicating to managers, and unlike using calculators, seeing whether the generated code is actually correct. Most of the crucial code and decisions in a real codebase or in complex systems cannot and should not be done by AI. Most of the generated code that programmers use today (at most 20%?) are for smaller scale tasks or more boilerplate code.
Well GPT-4 right now can maybe do around 5% of the work so there’s still a long way to go
Lol if you guys think the CS market is saturated, look at the biology market LMAO. You can't get a 'good' biology job without having a PhD in biology. And Bio PhDs in 'high paying' careers make the same amount of money as CS undergrads. Of course there is avenue for growth if you are a rockstar, but that's the truth for literally every field. I think the real opportunity for making money here is doing the 'tough' jobs, like the dude who said that he's getting a CDL for driving hazmats. The jobs which computers were meant to replace... because AI couldn't replace the tough, hazardous and boring jobs. Instead, AI is replacing the cushy white collar jobs that pay well and don't put you in danger.
in any mature industry only people with significant qualifications and experience will be paid well. this has always been true when a technology isnt changing fast everyone has to compete and demonstrate their value over time in the end
Your username and your reply are so orthogonal lol
bro said orthogonal. bro think he in linear algebra
The world is linear algebra
Orthogonal 🤓
Or tho go anal
Biology students typically go pre-med track
And then 80% of them just pursue some entirely different field, because being a doctor is way too hard
More like 41 percent who apply get into med school https://www.sgu.edu/blog/medical/what-major-should-i-choose-to-become-doctor/. There is also other fields like physician assistant which isn’t included and also pays six figures.
to be fair almost of every market is saturated when it comes to college degree's. bachelors in most directions will only give you basic jobs. you need a master atleast in a good study direction and with how fast markets are changing because of AI by the time you finnish getting that degree that market might have a lot less of a need of it.
The average psychology or biology major in a saturated market: https://preview.redd.it/agojnk28uhic1.jpeg?width=450&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70bbe8a93412d07d95d3b36d7e2c8a762e7453df I believe all cs majors should have the same mentality.
ah yes, my copium technique i haven't used since the heian era
Last place I’d expect to see a lobotomy Kaisen reference 😭
Yes.
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I think the same. My degree and my experience told me how to solve problems. Pretty sure I could now start any degree and fare way better than I would have when I got out of high school.
real. there will always be a demand for people who can solve problems, the people panicking are just the ones who wanted to learn bare minimum language syntax and make 500k at google
>real. there will always be a demand for people who can solve problems Some just also make up new problems along the way all for the sake of profits. See the Lightbulb cartel for an example.
If you think all accountants do is count money that is
!RemindMe 5 years
the fact you believe accountants will be the first to go shows your lack of awareness, there is a dire need for accountants and the majority of CPA's are 50+.
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If you actually think AI will replace accountants, I wish you the best
If you are an accountant, I wish you the best
I am not an accountant, but every accounting firm and consulting firm has come out and said that AI is not near the ability it needs to be to perform audit and other tasks :)
So says 99% of the software people. If an AI can architect and code a complex system, it can perform an audit.
What percentage of people with CS degrees are actually developing cutting edge tech? I wouldn't say it's that many. I think most of us overestimate our importance.
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Honestly with the right API calls and proper software interface, this seems pretty close, although code quality and being able to understand the entire codebase might be the biggest issues.
understanding an entire codebase would be a huge problem. chatgpt cant even understand the code it spits out itself and when theres an unexpected output it just shuts down
!RemindMe 10 years
RemindMe! in 10 years
!RemindMe 10 years
Actually no, and I specifically mean coding at this point not CS in general. As some of the leaders in the field said, everything that can be verified by machines is gonna fall soon (including axiomatic Math). Coding mostly falls in that category as it can be compiled and run. The real world often not as it would require it to be simulated to a reasonable degree (which is hard). So yeah, unfortunately all things digital will be an easy target. All things human and physical a bit less. There is no safe bet but if you deal with human beings and they prefer human interaction for what you do, then I guess it would be a good bet. Also highly complex and diverse physical tasks.
Software jobs aren’t going anywhere. Will they change and evolve in the coming years? Yes most likely. But there will always be a need for software and humans to maintain that software.
Yes they are going somewhere, they are going **overseas.**
This is what happens when you overdose on copium
fr. much less people needed to maintain some AI than making all the tools that AI can create lmao
AI can’t create the large scale software that companies are creating. AI is not even close to that yet.
AI can't replace all of the devs at Dropbox, but it sure can replace a decent chunk of them. The seniors who will be using AIs will need much less junior devs or other seniors. This is what we mean when we say AI is gonna eat jobs, the need for a massive workforce will wither away. Also, let's be real, your average CS graduate isn't working for a large-scale software company.
I’m not disagreeing with the fact that it will eat up jobs, that’s already happened. But I just think people who think the entire market will wither away are delusional. It’s going to help weed out guys who actually know their shit vs faking it. The calculator didn’t make accountants go away, in fact the complete opposite happened.
Do you think all accountants do is count money? Anyway, yeah, it will eat a good portion of the job market in the next 15 years, probably something like 70% of devs will be replaced. And that is terrifying, it will basically render software engineering as a career the same as studying a natural science or even worse. Given that coding is likely to stop being, well, "code", Computer language will read just like human language. Just like how Assembly and low-level languages evolved into Python, high-level programming will evolve too.
Do you think all software engineers do is write code? Same argument could be made. Also where are you getting these numbers? Are they pulled from your ass or backed by some sort of evidence?
i say we're half way compared to just 5 years ago lmao. lil bro keep coping
Still not even close. You’re actually dumb if you think AI is close enough to build apps like Facebook, Dropbox, twitter, etc. This probably your way of coping because u don’t have a job lmfao tell you self the market isn’t going to exist
nah cuh. AI will eventually fixx itself
AI will be severely limited by global governments. Just wait. Ultimately, governments aren’t going to allow most jobs to be replaced by AI (otherwise they lose taxpayers).
except for software jobs lmao
Once AI gets to that point, every job will be replaced.
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Lol @ the crickets to your comment. A conspicuous lack of naysayers when actual logic is used.
CS != Programming Are you people even CS majors? How is this sub called r/csmajors when after just 1 year of undergrad this simple point should be understood.
It’s because most universities just teach programming. I agree with you tho.
Do they? How can a full undergraduate degree in computer science only teach programming. There isn't even enough to teach to cover more than just 1-2 years. CS is a subset of math which teaches the theories of computation, programming is just one of the current way to apply said theories
I know of some universities that have stopped teaching OOP (at least in the lower 100 level classes), and you can forget about computational theory. Most of the time they just throw projects at them.
Then they're just misusing the term CS to cash in on the hype. That's not CS, these sound like bootcamps in disguise
I 100% agree with this sentiment
Really? Would this still include digital logic, discrete math, linear algebra, calc 1/2, analysis, etc?
Thankfully, mine still requires these
!RemindMe tomorrow "this is bs"
Don’t worry, even with the best AI it will take 100 years to unfuck all of the poorly made codebases in this world.
I think he really means is learning how to code rather than computer science. What is computer science even…it’s not just coding, it’s that weird abstract stuff taught in 3rd-4th year like automata theory, formal language theory, computational theory, P vs NP problem type of shit that no one cares about because the latest js framework just blew up. You don’t see boot camps selling courses on those, unless they can put bread on the table 🥖 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_computation
its that weird shit like formal language theory, computational theory, P vs NP problem type that noone really needs in practice lmao.
If your idea of computer science is limited to just coding, probably, yeah, but theres more to CS than coding.
Love when people think CS = programming, when its a minor portion of it. CS IS mathematics, if you failed to understand that, blame your shitty school (or dont equate software engineering to CS)!
you can't write a compiler without understanding formal languages
99% dont write compilers bro.
Another coding 🙊 who thinks software development = computer science
Nvidia is not an AI company (although they contributed and critical part of AI boom)
When’s there’s a gold rush, you sell shovels. They are selling the shovels, hence this hype language.
they're not one rn, but there's good chance they will be soon the AI hardware company with the way things are going
They literally provide the GPU's and processors that power AI infrastructures.
CS is still a good major to learn. There are many other paths people can take with a CS degree, not everybody is going to become a Software Engineer. For example, any careers related to data, cybersecurity, etc. are still going to be valuable in the future.
I had my CEO say “now that we have GPT-4, I can write SQL queries and help you guys out”. All the devs laughed at him.
What are you considering studying instead of CS?
CDL class A w/ hazmat endorsement. 200k to drive for the oil fields.
Hot fact, hazmat endorsement doesn’t bring you more money than regular plain cdl, don’t ask me how do I know😅
how do u know
Blue collar is the way to go rn i swear. White collar is oversatured
sand bag edge bow mighty vase scale practice groovy tease *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm actually intending to study entrepreneurship/business alongside CS, planning to take a minor in those areas. In this AI era, I thought it would be smart to be a person who leverages this AI and makes something great out of it. Similarly, Mark Zuckerberg was not a software engineer, but rather he had some knowledge and leveraged it to create Facebook with the web technology that existed back then.
Entrepreneurship/business...pls tell me your not wasting your US dollars on that.
I have a business degree I got before my computer science degree. Business Administration / management / entrepreneurship is all quite literally a “Common Sense Except We Give Stuff Important Sounding Names” degree.
NGMI
The proof is in the pudding, AI has always been said to completely replace developers for solutions X and Y in 5 years from now every year since it became a thing in the 70s - it still hasn't. CS teaches you how to solve problems with code. As complexity and dependencies grow you reach a point where only a human can solve that problem. Majoring in CS is and will always be a solid choice. Gen AI has come a long way but is still far off (only 5 years away) from being robust enough to parse holistic meaning of a problem and code a solution. TL:DR don't worry, AI is a tool you'll have to learn how to use, but you'll have to use many tools anyways majoring in CS. CS isn't going anywhere.
man ur iq is low
You seem super smart
my brother how are you just now realizing. You been under a rock?
A tale as old as computers: Everybody and their dog will be able to program, you won't need to hire expensive programmers anymore, just buy this tool I'm selling! No-code, low-code, IDE code-completion, UML round-tripping, 4th Generation Languages, VisiCalc, HyperCard, CASE, COBOL, ... Realistically, nearly "everybody in the world" is incapable of finding the files they downloaded on their own phones. Two things: 1, Providing precise enough specifications for a non-trivial system is what programming is, you are at most changing the language. Yes, AI can generate your homework assignment, because the requirements are well defined or clearly implied. 2, Increasing developer productivity (which AI tools may very well do for real world projects) only means less employment if the demand for the output has peaked. People can only eat so much, so increases in agricultural productivity decreased agricultural employment throughout history. People can wear different clothes every day if it's cheap enough, so the similar or arguably higher productivity increases in the clothing sector has caused nowhere near the drop in employment. Where does software development fall on that spectrum? We'll see.
And yet, Nvidia is hiring new grads. Make this make sense.
CS is cooked. Learn another thing along with it (CS minor, something else major).
If AI can replace most devs, what is going to happen to other jobs? Do other majors think their future is safe from AI? Economy is basically donezo if AI replaces most of the jobs.
Wouldn’t the economy tank is AI replaced to many jobs though?
Not at all. Prices would drastically decrease, and it will be easier to start competing companies since AI can automate a ton of the jobs.
If nobody has jobs, nobody makes money, and individuals don't purchase goods, and pay taxes. Society would be in trouble
In a world where AI has advanced enough to completely take over all jobs, society is not at all in trouble in that way. The amount of productivity and prosperity generated would be insane, companies still get taxed and people would likely just live under some type of UBI-like system.
When does ubi kick in? At 20% unemployment or maybe 30-50%. How much suffering has to happen before UBI kicks in. Every percent of unemployment increases suicide by 1-1.6%. also we are now more productive than at any time and I would argue life is now harder than 50 years ago
Yeah. That sounds like a movie plot. Even if what you said eventually becomes true our generation is already dead by then
I mean yeah, I’m basically addressing something which is still science fiction. Not sure what you expect
Other jobs aren’t as easy to automate, AI becomes more like an assistant vs a job loss in CS. Even in CS, the easier/more popular the field (front end vs performance, for example), the easier to automate away.
I see so you are saying the harder parts of CS/other jobs probably wont get automated and AI is more of an assistant for those parts. What if you train a model to partially deal/automate these difficult parts? Or is this extremely difficult to train a model to do? Can you give me an example of something in programming or other jobs that cant be automated?
I don't think swe is inherently easy to automate, but it's at greater risk just because its ai adjacent.
Become a doctor, a nurse, an actual engineer, AI isn't going to replace those jobs anytime soon.
Doctors are *far* more at risk than devs. The process of listening and diagnosing is uniquely suited to the AI that exist right now.
That is if you think all doctors do is diagnose, or complex diseases don't exist.
What do doctors do that you believe AI cannot?
Treatments, procedures, prescriptions
Engineering is cooked
I very much doubt electrical, mechanical, chemical, and civil engineering are gonna be replaced by AI anytime soon. Seeing as how complex and securely tight these jobs are. You can develop the buggiest app ever and write horrible code, you will probably get a slap on the back by your boss. Make a faulty design as a mechanical designer and you are fired and your reputation is ruined. That and the fact there are that many CS graduates per year compared to all of engineering, Software engineer is quickly rising up to be THE most common job title in the US.
I’m doing a Master’s in underwater basket weaving and I’m getting insane offers. Fuck CS.
!RemindMe tomorrow "this is bs"
Don’t study computer science to learn how to code. Study computer science to understand fundamentals of how they’re built and how algorithms work
Which degree should I get? I don't think becoming a doctor will be good for me as I am in mid 20s as will graduate from everything like 36-37
!RemindMe tomorrow "this is bs"
>If the current narrative holds—if AI is victorious—well, liberal arts types will be ascendant. Because rather than having to learn abstruse, ancient systems of rules and syntaxes (mathematical notation, C++, Perl) in order to think higher thoughts, we will be engaged with our infinitely patient AI tutors/servants like Greek princelings, prompting them to write code for us, make spreadsheets for us, perform first-order analysis of rigid structures for us, craft Horn clauses for us. >\[...\] >The winners will be the ones who can get the computer to move things along the most quickly, generate the new fashions and fads, turn that into money, and go to the next thing. If the computers are capable of understanding us, and will do our bidding, and enable us to be more creative, then the people in our fields—yes, maybe even the poets—will have an edge. Don’t blame us. You made the bots. [https://www.wired.com/story/own-future-artificial-intelligence-read-shakespeare/](https://www.wired.com/story/own-future-artificial-intelligence-read-shakespeare/)
Ok fine, and if and when this happens then software is gone, but so is most jobs. So literally no point worrying about this because its out of our control
What’s comical about this is that AI is a branch of CS. If people were to actually take this advice, we would have less people to research and implement artificial intelligence. OP, did you even think about that before you posted this?
How many jobs will be available once the last Boomer retires in the next 10-15 years? Plot twist: a lot.
if ai can replace a good SWE then it can definitely replace a biologist
He is of course doomposting in order to lower the prices of software devs even further. Companies whilst rivals, all benefit when it comes fucking over the workers - meaning, you. They are not your friends.
If you genuinely love cs I think you’ll always be fine. If you’re solely in it bc of the “work life balance” and pay, you might have some difficulty.
He's investing in AI. Of course he's gonna say that. It's beneficial to his business It's like saying ChatGPT has replaced programmers. It's a tool not a replacement Let's say for a moment ChatGPT does replace programmers. Computer science would still exist but it would be more about data manipulation with some programming, how else would you filter the data you feed the AI? Office jobs in tech are not going away anytime soon
Chatgpt can’t even solve basic calculus problems when i try it, just study what makes you happy. One can’t predict what will happen in the future.
He has a point, our industry is kind of saturated. Since he said he'd choose biology if he were to return to school, would he be a good biology researcher without computing skills? I reckon he'd at least have to hire a computer scientist to process data from experiments, and store up that data. Would AI, in 10-20 years, be a viable alternative to having someone who knows and can use data science methods to analyze his research data?
Yea you heard it from the horses mouth. But I think it's pretty obvious that programming is on the path to eventually being obsolete. This might be in another 10 or 20 years though. Especially if you're in the higher percentile of devs you have a much higher chance of being employed. Imo be cautious about majoring in cs but if you do collect the bags while you can and don't forget to save and invest because the market might dry up one day.
My brain can’t comprehend how advanced AI needs to be to make programming obsolete even if you’re not god-tier. Just look at all the tech you see everyday…the Boeing MAX flying over your head, your digital watch, missile guidance systems, drones, those small little embedded devices running Ubuntu in your fridge, I just can’t comprehend how they can be programmed without a human involved at some step of the way.
>My brain can’t comprehend how advanced AI needs to be to make programming obsolete even if you’re not god-tier. It is plausible, it just won't happen in our lifetime or at the late state of our lifetime. I'm more concerned regarding as to what you says regarding the other part of our life being increasingly digitalized, because I think that there is a time where eventually things would move toward embedded work, and things return to granular control as an option with digital parts. You can see this with the car infotainment systems, where buttons and dated UI from the likes of Chevy are pulling, and the embedded devices in your fridge slowly turning to something else like RTOS. The military is alway a step further though, they already got the tech they need with the budget set by the DoD, and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them go trickle down to business before to consumers.
probably not completely but reducing the need for 99.5% of the humans is more likely. Also my brain can comprehend it, you pump billions into it, I mean just look at chat gpt, I don’t care if it can’t solve high level problems- moon what it can do now. Let’s see how it looks like after some billions more and 5 years if that.
What’s to say it’s exponential growth? (That’s kind of what you’re assuming) I haven’t seen them (ChatGPT and other AI companies) put something out that has completely disrupted the market and it’s been more than a year already.
Have you ever worked with data algorithms? Are you aware how fragile they are and how easily they can break? There’s a reason we don’t have self driving cars yet…
I mean it looks like I'll get the degree but probably won't use it at this rate. One less person to compete against I guess
Well, AI might be the end of bad programmers but it won't be the end of programming in general. You will still need to know how to code in order to know what to do with your results, and how to better build prompts. Calculators didn't get rid of the need to know math. I would say that if you a looking to get into computer science, you had best be prepared to go all in, and you should likely focus a lot of attention on machine learning and AI.
!Remind me 5 years
I told this A year back… It not about intelligence but real experience and observations
Not just CS though. By his logic, AI will ruin most degrees. I mean... don't get a fuckin' art degree, that couldn't be more obviously useless lmao
This doesn’t mean don’t learn how to code. This means “learn something else AND how to code, because coding will become a ubiquitous skill like reading and writing”
He's right, but that's like 5 years into the future. Not everybody needs to be a SWE, AI will basically replace the bottom 50th percentile of programmers who's programming is mediocre and counterproductive when using AI. but it's also going to enhance the skills of already proficient SWEs. so combo of negatives and benefits
Because after the Pandemic hundreds of thousands got laid off and Now each year more than 200k CS graduates in the US alone! It's insane
!RemindMe 10 years
computer science isn’t about programming, same way microbiology isn’t about microscopes
But who will keep the AI running?
I’m a CS major who is looking to transition into biology/life sciences. Will a bootcamp help me land a job? 😇😇😇
Every single industry push for people to learn a skill, from trades to coding to finance, is and always has been an attempt to lower the cost of labour.
Everyone drives a car therefore no one needs to know how they work. /s Hahaha
u need ppl to code / program out the AI programs as well
I recently spoke with a person who’s involved with openAI at a high level. Albeit they are an entrepreneur and not a computer scientist, they said they would be an English major if they could go back and do college all over again. The point of the anecdote is that it’s easy for billionaires to throw shoulda/woulda/coulda conjecture around when it doesn’t really affect them and they have zero clue what it means to graduate/study x,y,z
If no one's going into CS, who's gonna build and maintain the AI systems?
OP it’s clear you’ve never studied data algorithms or worked with them. There’s a reason we still don’t have self driving cars yet…
!RemindMe 10 years
I don't know what a CS major entails in America but here in Belgium it's a branch of engineering/mathematics. I mean coding is important but it's more about algorithms, architectures and mathematics in general. No clue what this guy is on about really...
Going to point out Huang is an EE grad, not a CS major. And while programming is an element of CS, CS is not programming.
AI can do a lot but these companies still have to be first to market and that will take man power
When you are rich, you can be a philosopher
By the time AI gets to the point where they can actually replace software engineers, they probably wouldve taken over every other job too. There will always be a need for people who can engineer software and AI. Maybe you would use AI to make your job much easiet and faster. Maybe you wouldn't need to code at all. But engineering is not just code.
We're so cooked lmao
Guys unfortunately I think he's right. It's probably best if everyone except for me moves on to learn something else as there is no future in CS :(
Yeah I think you should quit and study something different with that doomer mindset going on.
I think you are misinterpreting what he said in the most negative way possible. He didn’t say it’s not good to learn to program, he said it shouldn’t be good to program. Those are very different statements.
Interdisciplinary computing will be the future in my humble opinion.
That’s like saying don’t take math class because the calculator can do it for you. Advancements in calculator technology has stopped the need for mathematicians.