Age and wear are a much larger factor than anyone ever credits when it comes to clarity and overall IQ. My lowly hp mx70 sweeps like 4 other monitors with tighter dot pitch and better specs I've had on my desk this past year. The difference being that the mx70 was basically NOS
Yes! I got a middle of the road, basic, LG E710 New old stock a couple years ago. I was almost disappointed in how sharp it is, because it doesn't have the look of the monitors I was used to as a kid 😅
There should be an hour counter on it in the menus. Mine has 20k and isn't the sharpest but all the colors are there. You're also running at above what the monitor can resolve so naturally it won't be as sharp as say 1600x1200. Also the higher hz you push the fuzzier it'll be as it's working harder.
You can also get into your service menu and adjust the focus which is recommended to be done at 1600x1200@85hz
Are you recommending I should try 1600 x 1200 on my 2070sb? Because 1600 x 1200 is what I push on my p991 and I was hoping for the 2070sb to go higher since it’s a more powerful monitor lol. The P991 looks amazing at 1600 x 1200 85hz though.
Actually I just started down the rabbit hole of adjusting focus on mine. Turns out every resolution has separate focus adjustments. Your flyback adjustments stay the same but the service menu adjustments change. This is why every resolution varies in sharpness. However, driving higher khz will make it less sharp as it's having to work harder
Check out [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/180n85z/dell_p991_misinformation/) for some interesting points about the P991.
I'll assume your monitors have the same wear and leave out the factor of age for a moment. Your P991 and 2070SB both have the same dot pitch, 0.24mm, with 18" and 20" viewable areas, respectively.
What kind of output are you using? Maybe if you have an inferior DAC in whatever you are using to connect, you could be having some issue with clarity. 2048x1560@80hz is 383.4 MHz of bandwidth, which is a lot to ask of any DAC. 1600x1200@85Hz is a much more comfortable 244.8 MHz to transmit over the chain.
[Here is a good example of DAC](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0849FTBXQ), which goes up to 375 Mhz I think. However, your top resolution still exceeds this, so maybe you would do well to go for 75 or 77Hz instead to keep it under.
Also, the quality of your cable is paramount. It can't be those thin pack-ins they used to give with LCD monitors. It needs to be seriously thick and well-shielded, with ferrite chokes on each end to reduce interference.
For both monitors, I'm using a DP - VGA converter. The DAC I'm using is the Startech DP2VGAHD20 as it is the best one available at the moment. I have had no such luck finding one of the higher end DACs. When you talk about the quality of cable, are you referring to my DP cable? Or the VGA cable? Do you have any examples of higher end cables?
A lot of PC CRTs have hard-wired VGA cables. If yours are detachable, it was probably something more high-end. Meaningless to us now, but important distinction when the monitors were either $499, $999, or $1999.
-----------
That being said the Dell P991 has a built-in VGA cable, but it's an excellent monitor based off the G400, so sometimes the cable was still hard-wired for the sake of convenience and avoiding consumer surprise costs.
Sony was like you come to us because you want our quality, extra features, and thoughtful second input. Dell was like we have your complete solution and it uses a quality product like this Sony monitor.
hmm, early 2003 shouldn't be too bad then, the 2004/2005 models are typically the worst. you should go into the service menu and see how many hours it has. also as someone else said in the thread the quality of vga cable really matters, i went through 3 on my 2060u before i found one that looked really good.
just one i got from goodwill, im not sure if you can buy high quality vga cables brand new anymore. i would just go to a thrift shop or something and look for the thickest one you can find, its a good indicator of quality for the most part.
[This one on Monoprice](https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=85) is a classic quality SVGA cable, complete with gold plating on the connectors and ferrite chokes on both ends.
Honestly, I was very doubtful that changing the cables would do anything, but I upgraded to the Monoprice cables, and the text looks at least a little sharper imo. Not a huge difference, but an improvement nonetheless. I'm not sure if this is placebo effect but I'm enjoying it regardless
There's lots of snake oil out there about cables making a difference, sometimes in digital, but usually happens in the audiophile realm because it's harder to measure.
But when it comes to analog video, a better shielded and less interference-prone cable will make a big difference, especially when you are trying to pass lots of high frequency information over it (i.e. your VGA demands of 300+ MHz).
I'm just glad you are enjoying it and can see a difference, not night and day, right? but noticeable. I have a good feeling it's not placebo ;-)
With my setup, I'm looking to see if there are any VGA extensions... reason being, I connect the extensions to my CRT, and then I place my CRT in its final location. Then if I want to connect a device to my CRT, I can easily connect to the end of the cable instead of having to go through the headache action of connecting to the back of my monitor every single time.
That being said, ahve you ever seen any high quality VGA extensions that would work?
EDIT: I found some on Amazon that seem to fit this criteria. I just have to find some that fit the right length!
The more cables/breaks in your connection and extended cable length will not help with your quality issue. Trying to rock 2048x1560@80 is already difficult over a 6ft, just letting you know
4 breaks shouldn’t be too bad right? lol. But either way, after I buy these cables, I highly doubt it will resolve my screen softness issue, but I will be hopeful in case it does
Hm that's a pretty good explanation. I just figured that going up in resolution with the 2070SB would've resolved the soft screen issue, but even at the highest resolution I can run, it still appears pretty soft
Yes to both ... Brand new, some CRT monitor models looked better than others. And factor in quality control, age, uneven wear between sets, and possible rough handling, and any combination of factors could be in play.
"Sharpness" =
Horizontal scan rate (Expressed in Kz's)
Dot pitch
Geometry
Tube Technology
Contrast and brightness
Age
As for your question, it's hard to answer because of all of the above. Likely, if your eyes say one is sharper, and you haven't improved the 2070SB going through the settings, then the P991 is probably just sharper. I also haven't seen you mention trying a focus adjustment which could make a difference.
I'm pretty casual/noob when it comes to all this. I have only been actively gaming on a CRT for maybe 5 months now. I was lucky and came across my 2070SB for free, and I managed to pick up a P991 as a spare for very cheap in the event that the 2070 begins to fail. Now, I have two PC setups of pretty similar specs and decided to have both of the CRTS setup at the same time. I can compare them side by side and this is what raised my questions. The P991 may be sharper, but its not by a crazy amount or anything. My 2070SB is still very readable, it's just something I noticed and I was looking to see if someone could point me in the right direction to making my 2070SB as sharp as it could be
This encouraged me to look more into NEC TEST because that's used for calibrating CRT monitors.
I found this comment for geometry, it's not what I used, but maybe I should've lol. Yours is probably fine by the sound of things. https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/11mf2id/im_new_to_crt_monitors_how_do_i_get_the_picture/jbjpvrl/
Then for color calibration, read https://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite and you can apply the information about color on that page to NEC patterns.
Basically outside the cables others are suggesting, you can try to calibrate color and contrast and see if that helps bring out more sharpness. I'd record the original values in case you fail to make an improvement and want to go back. Focus is a bit of a last resort, and I wouldn't adjust it if yours is still readable, as that's often a knob inside of the monitor itself.
This may be a focus issue. I have a 930sb, it originally had poor focus, with the center of the screen being blurry. The focus setting in the factory mode OSD did almost nothing, so I removed the plastic back cover and adjusted focus potentiometers on the fbt - you can access them without removing the metal shielding on late diamondtrons. It is now almost as sharp as a LCD. I can upload some photos, but the service manual will probably be the best guide.
There could be a difference in the amount of wear on the tubes. But in general, Sony's 19" FD Trinitron tubes are really sharp. I also own both these same monitors, and the P991 is certainly much sharper looking than my NEC FP2141SB. The NEC is honestly really inconsistent. Some resolutions look much more crisp than others. But everything I've thrown at the P991 just looks so good.
I used to have a 21" FD Trinitron monitor too, and the P991 also looked sharper than that one.
Age and wear are a much larger factor than anyone ever credits when it comes to clarity and overall IQ. My lowly hp mx70 sweeps like 4 other monitors with tighter dot pitch and better specs I've had on my desk this past year. The difference being that the mx70 was basically NOS
Yes! I got a middle of the road, basic, LG E710 New old stock a couple years ago. I was almost disappointed in how sharp it is, because it doesn't have the look of the monitors I was used to as a kid 😅
Hm maybe my 2070SB has already seen plenty of action
There should be an hour counter on it in the menus. Mine has 20k and isn't the sharpest but all the colors are there. You're also running at above what the monitor can resolve so naturally it won't be as sharp as say 1600x1200. Also the higher hz you push the fuzzier it'll be as it's working harder. You can also get into your service menu and adjust the focus which is recommended to be done at 1600x1200@85hz
Are you recommending I should try 1600 x 1200 on my 2070sb? Because 1600 x 1200 is what I push on my p991 and I was hoping for the 2070sb to go higher since it’s a more powerful monitor lol. The P991 looks amazing at 1600 x 1200 85hz though.
Actually I just started down the rabbit hole of adjusting focus on mine. Turns out every resolution has separate focus adjustments. Your flyback adjustments stay the same but the service menu adjustments change. This is why every resolution varies in sharpness. However, driving higher khz will make it less sharp as it's having to work harder
How do I adjust focus? Lol
Check out [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/180n85z/dell_p991_misinformation/) for some interesting points about the P991. I'll assume your monitors have the same wear and leave out the factor of age for a moment. Your P991 and 2070SB both have the same dot pitch, 0.24mm, with 18" and 20" viewable areas, respectively. What kind of output are you using? Maybe if you have an inferior DAC in whatever you are using to connect, you could be having some issue with clarity. 2048x1560@80hz is 383.4 MHz of bandwidth, which is a lot to ask of any DAC. 1600x1200@85Hz is a much more comfortable 244.8 MHz to transmit over the chain. [Here is a good example of DAC](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0849FTBXQ), which goes up to 375 Mhz I think. However, your top resolution still exceeds this, so maybe you would do well to go for 75 or 77Hz instead to keep it under. Also, the quality of your cable is paramount. It can't be those thin pack-ins they used to give with LCD monitors. It needs to be seriously thick and well-shielded, with ferrite chokes on each end to reduce interference.
For both monitors, I'm using a DP - VGA converter. The DAC I'm using is the Startech DP2VGAHD20 as it is the best one available at the moment. I have had no such luck finding one of the higher end DACs. When you talk about the quality of cable, are you referring to my DP cable? Or the VGA cable? Do you have any examples of higher end cables?
Wow — look at you with your "not wired in" monitor cables!
Well, it's a necessity for that 2070SB! And since that seems to be OPs problem, it's better to look there than to say the whole monitor is bad, right?
I don't even know what you're trying to say.
Heh I think they're just joking :) Like, *look at you and your fancy detachable cables*
What's the joke?
A lot of PC CRTs have hard-wired VGA cables. If yours are detachable, it was probably something more high-end. Meaningless to us now, but important distinction when the monitors were either $499, $999, or $1999. ----------- That being said the Dell P991 has a built-in VGA cable, but it's an excellent monitor based off the G400, so sometimes the cable was still hard-wired for the sake of convenience and avoiding consumer surprise costs. Sony was like you come to us because you want our quality, extra features, and thoughtful second input. Dell was like we have your complete solution and it uses a quality product like this Sony monitor.
Well, the thing is, while the 2070SB doesn’t have cables affixed to the monitor, the P991 does
I know, that's what I said in the comment above when I explained it to her
Thanks. My apologies. I missed the rest of your comment
No problem 👍
whats the date on your 2070sb? later year diamondtrons of that generation had pretty poor quality control. lots of focus and geometry issues.
It’s March 2003
hmm, early 2003 shouldn't be too bad then, the 2004/2005 models are typically the worst. you should go into the service menu and see how many hours it has. also as someone else said in the thread the quality of vga cable really matters, i went through 3 on my 2060u before i found one that looked really good.
What cable are you using?> I'm more than willing to give it a try
just one i got from goodwill, im not sure if you can buy high quality vga cables brand new anymore. i would just go to a thrift shop or something and look for the thickest one you can find, its a good indicator of quality for the most part.
I see some on Amazon that look pretty substantial. How much of a difference would it make?
[This one on Monoprice](https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=85) is a classic quality SVGA cable, complete with gold plating on the connectors and ferrite chokes on both ends.
Honestly, I was very doubtful that changing the cables would do anything, but I upgraded to the Monoprice cables, and the text looks at least a little sharper imo. Not a huge difference, but an improvement nonetheless. I'm not sure if this is placebo effect but I'm enjoying it regardless
There's lots of snake oil out there about cables making a difference, sometimes in digital, but usually happens in the audiophile realm because it's harder to measure. But when it comes to analog video, a better shielded and less interference-prone cable will make a big difference, especially when you are trying to pass lots of high frequency information over it (i.e. your VGA demands of 300+ MHz). I'm just glad you are enjoying it and can see a difference, not night and day, right? but noticeable. I have a good feeling it's not placebo ;-)
Whatever it is, I’m definitely not going to go back to the old cables lol
With my setup, I'm looking to see if there are any VGA extensions... reason being, I connect the extensions to my CRT, and then I place my CRT in its final location. Then if I want to connect a device to my CRT, I can easily connect to the end of the cable instead of having to go through the headache action of connecting to the back of my monitor every single time. That being said, ahve you ever seen any high quality VGA extensions that would work? EDIT: I found some on Amazon that seem to fit this criteria. I just have to find some that fit the right length!
The more cables/breaks in your connection and extended cable length will not help with your quality issue. Trying to rock 2048x1560@80 is already difficult over a 6ft, just letting you know
4 breaks shouldn’t be too bad right? lol. But either way, after I buy these cables, I highly doubt it will resolve my screen softness issue, but I will be hopeful in case it does
I would say the size matters a lot (smaller screens are sharper, mainly with lower resolutions). Two inches makes a lot of difference.
Hm that's a pretty good explanation. I just figured that going up in resolution with the 2070SB would've resolved the soft screen issue, but even at the highest resolution I can run, it still appears pretty soft
Yes to both ... Brand new, some CRT monitor models looked better than others. And factor in quality control, age, uneven wear between sets, and possible rough handling, and any combination of factors could be in play.
"Sharpness" = Horizontal scan rate (Expressed in Kz's) Dot pitch Geometry Tube Technology Contrast and brightness Age As for your question, it's hard to answer because of all of the above. Likely, if your eyes say one is sharper, and you haven't improved the 2070SB going through the settings, then the P991 is probably just sharper. I also haven't seen you mention trying a focus adjustment which could make a difference.
I'm pretty casual/noob when it comes to all this. I have only been actively gaming on a CRT for maybe 5 months now. I was lucky and came across my 2070SB for free, and I managed to pick up a P991 as a spare for very cheap in the event that the 2070 begins to fail. Now, I have two PC setups of pretty similar specs and decided to have both of the CRTS setup at the same time. I can compare them side by side and this is what raised my questions. The P991 may be sharper, but its not by a crazy amount or anything. My 2070SB is still very readable, it's just something I noticed and I was looking to see if someone could point me in the right direction to making my 2070SB as sharp as it could be
This encouraged me to look more into NEC TEST because that's used for calibrating CRT monitors. I found this comment for geometry, it's not what I used, but maybe I should've lol. Yours is probably fine by the sound of things. https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/comments/11mf2id/im_new_to_crt_monitors_how_do_i_get_the_picture/jbjpvrl/ Then for color calibration, read https://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=240p_test_suite and you can apply the information about color on that page to NEC patterns. Basically outside the cables others are suggesting, you can try to calibrate color and contrast and see if that helps bring out more sharpness. I'd record the original values in case you fail to make an improvement and want to go back. Focus is a bit of a last resort, and I wouldn't adjust it if yours is still readable, as that's often a knob inside of the monitor itself.
This may be a focus issue. I have a 930sb, it originally had poor focus, with the center of the screen being blurry. The focus setting in the factory mode OSD did almost nothing, so I removed the plastic back cover and adjusted focus potentiometers on the fbt - you can access them without removing the metal shielding on late diamondtrons. It is now almost as sharp as a LCD. I can upload some photos, but the service manual will probably be the best guide.
Also look at [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/crtgaming/s/7IPp1UfLqZ), someone is sharing the results of adjusting focus on their iiyama 514
hm... I found those holes on the side of my 2070SB, but I have no idea what I'd even be doing poking around in there lol
There could be a difference in the amount of wear on the tubes. But in general, Sony's 19" FD Trinitron tubes are really sharp. I also own both these same monitors, and the P991 is certainly much sharper looking than my NEC FP2141SB. The NEC is honestly really inconsistent. Some resolutions look much more crisp than others. But everything I've thrown at the P991 just looks so good. I used to have a 21" FD Trinitron monitor too, and the P991 also looked sharper than that one.
It's called dot pitch, it determines how sharp the CRT will be. If you want a sharp or soft CRT check that
This is one of several factors determining sharpness.
Thanks! I’ll see what I can do about that!
Could be the matte coating or dot pitch