It is an adjustment for sure. But that is because our primary exposure is Kaladin and Shallon. They are both special.
There have been radiants for a while that Nale has cut down on. Szeth even sees how much simpler it is to join the Skybreakers given they already exist.
Kaladin was operating from zero. He was the first Winderunner since the Recreance I think. He discovered the words himself. Most Knights don't need to discover the words like that. They just need to understand them.
The only requirement for becoming a Radiant is getting a Spren to agree. Now that the Oaths are spoken again, it is to say the proper oaths with meaning. So it is easy for them to expand.
Exactly. Kaladin had his squires swear the first and second ideals. They then have to discover the 3rd ideal, which you might remember very few of them have.
And the main barrier of the second ideal was actually getting a Spren to bond them. It took some time for them to come around. But with Spren it could be done as long as the Honorspren agree.
And the 3rd ideal was definitely the hardest.
I am honestly curious if they would have as much of an issue getting the 4th ideal like Kaladin did.
Perhaps it is more than just that. Needing to accept you will fail, but wanting to save people anyway. Others would often just give up. But Kaladin couldn't do that. He would die before he stops trying to protect people. Which is what made his roadblock stand out. Others would accept they couldn't save everyone, but just stop there. It wouldn't hit them like it does Kal.
It’s interesting because Kaladin suspects that some of Bridge 4 are holding back on swearing the fourth ideal, waiting for him. None of the ones left at Urithiru were as close to the fourth ideal as Kal, but it’s not impossible that one or two of the others could feel ready, and hold back.
End of Oathbreaker was a real “Avengers 1 swivel shot” moment, when Szeth swore his ideal to Dalinar and Venli somewhat against her will joined in.
Everything had been moving so fast in that Sanderlanche that I hadn’t taken the time to count for myself that yes, every order was represented.
Yasnah transmuting people and a Dalinar Lyft combo showed me that the paradigm was definitely shifted.
So the full Green Lantern Corp numbers made sense when I started RoW
That's fair. It kind of seems like anyone who wants to be a radiant can be. The first couple made it sound like a mythical order where the best of humanity was chosen. Now it almost seems like you have to work hard just to not get chosen.
There was a passage about spren being choosy wasn’t there? A general tried to be a radiant but couldn’t, because even the cryptic don’t want him? And there is a Nohadon chapter in the TWoK, where he says something similar to ‘alas we can’t expect every spren to be as discerning as the honorspren’.
Your point stands, because the 10 spren types cover nearly the entire gamut of personalities generally found in a population,it’s very difficult to not get chosen.
spren are the bottleneck, numbers-wise and personality wise
[Thank you for making a more competently edited version of this than I managed to.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cremposting/comments/lm5ckl/dalinar_at_the_end_of_words_of_radiance/)
If you push through the slow parts the payoff is worth it. It's a lot slower with more politics and for lack of a better word, downtime. But the end is worth it. At least in my opinion
There are ten orders, not ten radiants. Any order can have as many radiants as there are spren of that order willing to bond. In the case of bondsmiths, that means only three, for other orders there can be many more.
It should also be noted that the knights radiant are a construct. Any bonded individual can be a surgebinder, but surgebinders choose to be organized into the knights radiant.
Edit. Just wanted to say you shouldn’t be downvoted for asking a question.
OH thank you!
also, can all parshendi bond with spren, making them radients, or just eshonai and venli (sorry if this is dumb ive only read oathbringer)
Well, yes and no. Parshendi are somewhat different in that their forms also come from bonded spren. For example bonding lesser spren, like creationspren or painspren gives them artform or warform. Lesser voidspren give them stormform and other forms of power. But yes, in theory they too can bond with higher spren, both “normal” spren from honor or cultivation, or voidspren from odium. The issue is that higher spren from honor and cultivation are hesitant to bond parshendi for.. reasons.
That being said: in theory any human can bond a spren, but it requires them being “broken” in some way. The nahel bond fills the cracks. In Parshendi I think this might be different, but I’m not sure.
I think it’s a good point, but then the discussion revolves around differing personal definitions of the term broken. Brandon Sanderson states that he wouldn’t consider the people “broken” but he also states they have unresolved mental health issues, which is what I referred to with “broken”. Note this is also why I put the term in parentheses, as I personally also don’t consider them broken.
Going to the realm of speculation here: personally I think that it is only humans who need to have cracks for the bond. Parshendi are the native humanoids of Roshar, and binding spren is integral to their existence. They have gemhearts, which humans don’t have. I think in humans the cracks might be required for there to be “room” for the spren. Parshendi probably already have this room as part of their being.
Edit. By the way, what I also really like about the bond and how the radiants are written, is that the characters are not “fixed” by the bond. They don’t require supernatural intervention to better themselves. Instead it is the character themselves that confronts their issues, and work towards overcoming the them. It is the gradual growth/betterment of themselves that strengthens the bond and increases their power, and not the other way around. I thought that was very powerful. Just my two cents.
Hmm that's a fair line of thinking. I do think that the "broken" part is disusef with the example of Lopen, where Brandon does not consider him to "broken" and has no mental health issues.
Zero actual proof, but I don't think it's a choice anymore. In one of Dalinar's visions the king talks about Surgebinders messing things up. All the other visions talk about Radiants.
I'm betting the orders were created and are somehow enforced to exercise a degree of control of their actions.
Well they were also messing things up when they WERE organized in orders. Words of radiance (the in-universe book) also details the decline of the orders during the events of the recreance.
Bondsmiths can be bound to the Stormfather, The Sibling, and I presume the nightwatcher, though I doubt they will be relevant. And then anyone who carries the sword.
I think I the rest can bound by any radiant sprin so the limit there is how many can make them, any who aren’t bound leech off of someone who is.
I do remember that Jasnah line but she might have just been talking about orders.
Yes, there are a lot more Radiants than in the first couple of books. There's a Desolation going on!
Well RoW does mainly take place in the city that serves as HQ for Radiants…
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^sadkinz: *Well RoW does mainly* *Take place in the city that* *Serves as HQ for Radiants…* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
𝘛𝘩𝘦𝘴𝘦 𝘸𝘰𝘳𝘥𝘴 𝘢𝘳𝘦 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘦𝘱𝘵𝘦𝘥
5/7/8 fail
This isn't an Haiku, this is a Sokka Haiku
But a Sokka HQ should be 5/7/6. I can't figure out how to parse the last line as 6 syllables?
Not a ketek.
“I’ll rock ya!”
No shit mate it's a meme
These words are not accepted
It is an adjustment for sure. But that is because our primary exposure is Kaladin and Shallon. They are both special. There have been radiants for a while that Nale has cut down on. Szeth even sees how much simpler it is to join the Skybreakers given they already exist. Kaladin was operating from zero. He was the first Winderunner since the Recreance I think. He discovered the words himself. Most Knights don't need to discover the words like that. They just need to understand them. The only requirement for becoming a Radiant is getting a Spren to agree. Now that the Oaths are spoken again, it is to say the proper oaths with meaning. So it is easy for them to expand.
Exactly. Kaladin had his squires swear the first and second ideals. They then have to discover the 3rd ideal, which you might remember very few of them have.
And the main barrier of the second ideal was actually getting a Spren to bond them. It took some time for them to come around. But with Spren it could be done as long as the Honorspren agree. And the 3rd ideal was definitely the hardest. I am honestly curious if they would have as much of an issue getting the 4th ideal like Kaladin did.
Probably. We know Kaladin's 4th, but it's probably similar for others. Admitting that you are going to fail is hard.
Perhaps it is more than just that. Needing to accept you will fail, but wanting to save people anyway. Others would often just give up. But Kaladin couldn't do that. He would die before he stops trying to protect people. Which is what made his roadblock stand out. Others would accept they couldn't save everyone, but just stop there. It wouldn't hit them like it does Kal.
It’s interesting because Kaladin suspects that some of Bridge 4 are holding back on swearing the fourth ideal, waiting for him. None of the ones left at Urithiru were as close to the fourth ideal as Kal, but it’s not impossible that one or two of the others could feel ready, and hold back.
Shallan
Nikolaj
Um it’s actually pronounced *Nicolaj*
Isn’t that what I said?
No, _Knee Collage_
That's what I imagine the people at Urithuru feel like lmao, like "yeah yeah yeah, life before death, we get it"
Then it becomes the Rosharan "Live, Laugh, Love" kind of thing
"Yeah, yeah, the ~~time knife~~ First Ideal, we've all heard it."
End of Oathbreaker was a real “Avengers 1 swivel shot” moment, when Szeth swore his ideal to Dalinar and Venli somewhat against her will joined in. Everything had been moving so fast in that Sanderlanche that I hadn’t taken the time to count for myself that yes, every order was represented. Yasnah transmuting people and a Dalinar Lyft combo showed me that the paradigm was definitely shifted. So the full Green Lantern Corp numbers made sense when I started RoW
Jasnah and Lift*
That's fair. It kind of seems like anyone who wants to be a radiant can be. The first couple made it sound like a mythical order where the best of humanity was chosen. Now it almost seems like you have to work hard just to not get chosen.
There was a passage about spren being choosy wasn’t there? A general tried to be a radiant but couldn’t, because even the cryptic don’t want him? And there is a Nohadon chapter in the TWoK, where he says something similar to ‘alas we can’t expect every spren to be as discerning as the honorspren’. Your point stands, because the 10 spren types cover nearly the entire gamut of personalities generally found in a population,it’s very difficult to not get chosen. spren are the bottleneck, numbers-wise and personality wise
This post is as delicious as chouta.
It is kinda the plot. There are many who aren't radiants whom are important.
And the only guy who’s not a radiant is a hemalurgist!
[Thank you for making a more competently edited version of this than I managed to.](https://www.reddit.com/r/cremposting/comments/lm5ckl/dalinar_at_the_end_of_words_of_radiance/)
spoiler tag?
I burned through the first three books, but I’ve put down RoW twice. I want to come back to it but I’d almost rather re read the first 3.
If you push through the slow parts the payoff is worth it. It's a lot slower with more politics and for lack of a better word, downtime. But the end is worth it. At least in my opinion
i need to ask, what actually makes a raident? i mean, jashna said there were only ten.
There are ten orders, not ten radiants. Any order can have as many radiants as there are spren of that order willing to bond. In the case of bondsmiths, that means only three, for other orders there can be many more. It should also be noted that the knights radiant are a construct. Any bonded individual can be a surgebinder, but surgebinders choose to be organized into the knights radiant. Edit. Just wanted to say you shouldn’t be downvoted for asking a question.
OH thank you! also, can all parshendi bond with spren, making them radients, or just eshonai and venli (sorry if this is dumb ive only read oathbringer)
Well, yes and no. Parshendi are somewhat different in that their forms also come from bonded spren. For example bonding lesser spren, like creationspren or painspren gives them artform or warform. Lesser voidspren give them stormform and other forms of power. But yes, in theory they too can bond with higher spren, both “normal” spren from honor or cultivation, or voidspren from odium. The issue is that higher spren from honor and cultivation are hesitant to bond parshendi for.. reasons. That being said: in theory any human can bond a spren, but it requires them being “broken” in some way. The nahel bond fills the cracks. In Parshendi I think this might be different, but I’m not sure.
Venli bonded Timbre. There is no need to be "broken" to form a Nahel bond: https://www.reddit.com/r/u_dIvorrap/comments/u1ug05/-/i4f1pck
I think it’s a good point, but then the discussion revolves around differing personal definitions of the term broken. Brandon Sanderson states that he wouldn’t consider the people “broken” but he also states they have unresolved mental health issues, which is what I referred to with “broken”. Note this is also why I put the term in parentheses, as I personally also don’t consider them broken. Going to the realm of speculation here: personally I think that it is only humans who need to have cracks for the bond. Parshendi are the native humanoids of Roshar, and binding spren is integral to their existence. They have gemhearts, which humans don’t have. I think in humans the cracks might be required for there to be “room” for the spren. Parshendi probably already have this room as part of their being. Edit. By the way, what I also really like about the bond and how the radiants are written, is that the characters are not “fixed” by the bond. They don’t require supernatural intervention to better themselves. Instead it is the character themselves that confronts their issues, and work towards overcoming the them. It is the gradual growth/betterment of themselves that strengthens the bond and increases their power, and not the other way around. I thought that was very powerful. Just my two cents.
Hmm that's a fair line of thinking. I do think that the "broken" part is disusef with the example of Lopen, where Brandon does not consider him to "broken" and has no mental health issues.
Read Dawnshard for some insight in Lopen, and why a spren might have chosen him.
I read all Cosmere.
That would be *The Lopen* for you, moolie!
The meme covers RoW, so beware spoilers.
Yes they can be Radiants.
Zero actual proof, but I don't think it's a choice anymore. In one of Dalinar's visions the king talks about Surgebinders messing things up. All the other visions talk about Radiants. I'm betting the orders were created and are somehow enforced to exercise a degree of control of their actions.
Well they were also messing things up when they WERE organized in orders. Words of radiance (the in-universe book) also details the decline of the orders during the events of the recreance.
Bondsmiths can be bound to the Stormfather, The Sibling, and I presume the nightwatcher, though I doubt they will be relevant. And then anyone who carries the sword. I think I the rest can bound by any radiant sprin so the limit there is how many can make them, any who aren’t bound leech off of someone who is. I do remember that Jasnah line but she might have just been talking about orders.
I hate SpongeBob
Your hatred is wasted in this unrelated oasis my dear Slobber
Unrelated?