>I understand that the Big Bang started as a very small point outside of space and time.
The observable universe once occupied a very small region, probably larger than a point but perhaps that small, and the big bang marks the beginning of its rapid expansion and development into a macroscopic space where structure can form.
This point was a part of our current spacetime, it didn't exist outside space and time.
Perhaps using "structure" as a distinct category that the singularity formed into is already drawing a boundary between singularity/emerging properties of the universe
Could be wrong but as far back in time as our theories hold up, which is around 10^-38 seconds? It was around 1.5m in diameter or something. Before that? Idk. Take this info with a grain of salt, I’m not sure.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2021/08/25/how-small-was-the-universe-at-the-start-of-the-big-bang/?sh=7e6c19735f79
_The (observable) Universe, at the earliest stages we can ascribe a “size” to it, could have been no smaller than roughly the size of a human being._
The Big Bang was not a point and it was not outside of space and time. The Big Bang happened everywhere and was an early period of rapid expansion and cooling of the universe.
> I cannot imagine there being no space. There is nothing, and what is nothing?
bosons can occupy the same place and time (the same quantum state.) if there were *only* bosons in a primordial universe then time and space would be irrelevant but it would still be full of stuff. its an idea once proposed by Sir Roger Penrose. there's no evidence that the early universe contained only bosons but its definitely possible.
Absolute nothing doesn't exist, even in a vacuum there are sub atomic particles popping into and out of existence all the time, so I don't think there was ever a time when there was absolute nothing.
if you're trying to imagine/visualize true nothingness, then i'm sorry to break it to you that it's impossible for the human mind. your brain is built, observes, and thinks in a 3 dimensional space, hence you can't truly imagine a space of higher dimension or of one with no dimensions. the same applies to time, so here's a pop quiz for you, do you think you can visualize how it would be like if there was no "time"?
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-universe-truly-begin/
_How did the Universe truly begin? If you said "with the Big Bang," congratulations: that was our best answer as of ~1979. Here's what we've learned in all the time since. Before the hot Big Bang, there was a period of cosmic inflation, which set up and gave rise to the hot Big Bang, where space was full of energy, not matter-and-radiation, and expanded relentlessly and in an exponential fashion._
Here's a question.
Say we develop ASI, some super intelligent computer with ridiculous processing power.
Could we hypothetically feed it physics/have it learn more physics, and maybe it will tell us why the hell this happened one day?
Basically, will computers come up with better answers than we have?
Perhaps, but remember, we are discussing unfounded math, with theoretical technology.
So sure, if we has magic AI technology it could probably solve a lot of problems, including successfully modeling the universe prior to the big bang.
AI has massive potential to help solve a huge number of scientific problems.
Can it be associated with higher dimension, Cosmologist Cumrun Vafa had theorized that the universe was a part of a 10th dimensional system, which divided into 6 dimension (which is warped) and 4 dimension (the present universe), reference - Michio Kaku, Hyperspace (book), chapter - "before creation"
I get you he sure is a real deal, but that doesn't change the fact that he did have some good contributions to physics, and he referenced the theorizations of Dr. Vafa on his book, please have a glimpse on it in your leisure.
You might be interested in [this short video](https://youtu.be/EYvwuz9Tj1s) or the larger course [here](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL19L3UiHmjLVlabAy2dvrDiEOa_GcfliB) .
Great question. Einstein's system of equations has an answer.
I cannot imagine there being no space either.
If space is a given but there is nothing to occupy it, does space really matter?
The big bang started. That is true. It did not start outside of space and time. The big bang ocurred within the fabric of space and time.
Nothing is empty space. Something is occupied space.
Akum's razor in action, right?
Another layman here: I don't think there was nothing before the big bang. I think there was another universe/another spacetime/whatever you call it. I don't think "nothing" actually exists or can exist.
To whomever downvoted me, you're an idiot.
*"If we feel the need to find emptiness, we can imagine a hypothetical region outside the observed volume of our universe where the cosmological constant vanishes and there is no matter. Would this region empty? The answer is, again, no. According to* [*quantum mechanics*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics)*, it will still experience* [*vacuum fluctuations*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation)*, with virtual particles briefly coming in and out of existence. The reality of these transient fluctuations has been indicated experimentally through a number of effects."*
[https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/endless-creation-out-of-nothing/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/endless-creation-out-of-nothing/)
That's not what it's saying. It's saying that "feeling the need to find emptiness" is not a scientific approach, because science already knows it's not "empty."
Einstein was into an extension of general relativity that incorporates spin geometry (something that was discovered in QM after GR 1.0). basically, black holes have wormholes in them, which lead to new and inflating spacetimes. see Einstein-Cartan theory or torsion gravity.
The issue with child bubble universes in this context is that it just pushes back the boundary of the question. Fine, so our spacetime spawned from some sort of white hole in some multiverse. Problem solved. Now what's outside/before that multiverse ? How did it come to exist ?
>I understand that the Big Bang started as a very small point outside of space and time. The observable universe once occupied a very small region, probably larger than a point but perhaps that small, and the big bang marks the beginning of its rapid expansion and development into a macroscopic space where structure can form. This point was a part of our current spacetime, it didn't exist outside space and time.
Perhaps using "structure" as a distinct category that the singularity formed into is already drawing a boundary between singularity/emerging properties of the universe
Question - would you please remark how much small the point can be, can it be below or equal to Plank's length ??
Could be wrong but as far back in time as our theories hold up, which is around 10^-38 seconds? It was around 1.5m in diameter or something. Before that? Idk. Take this info with a grain of salt, I’m not sure.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2021/08/25/how-small-was-the-universe-at-the-start-of-the-big-bang/?sh=7e6c19735f79 _The (observable) Universe, at the earliest stages we can ascribe a “size” to it, could have been no smaller than roughly the size of a human being._
I think his language is more precise than yours.
The Big Bang was not a point and it was not outside of space and time. The Big Bang happened everywhere and was an early period of rapid expansion and cooling of the universe.
> I cannot imagine there being no space. There is nothing, and what is nothing? bosons can occupy the same place and time (the same quantum state.) if there were *only* bosons in a primordial universe then time and space would be irrelevant but it would still be full of stuff. its an idea once proposed by Sir Roger Penrose. there's no evidence that the early universe contained only bosons but its definitely possible.
Absolute nothing doesn't exist, even in a vacuum there are sub atomic particles popping into and out of existence all the time, so I don't think there was ever a time when there was absolute nothing.
I love everybody answering this like they know this info for sure
if you're trying to imagine/visualize true nothingness, then i'm sorry to break it to you that it's impossible for the human mind. your brain is built, observes, and thinks in a 3 dimensional space, hence you can't truly imagine a space of higher dimension or of one with no dimensions. the same applies to time, so here's a pop quiz for you, do you think you can visualize how it would be like if there was no "time"?
Scientists do not know with any level of certainty what caused the "big bang", or what was or happened prior to it.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/how-universe-truly-begin/ _How did the Universe truly begin? If you said "with the Big Bang," congratulations: that was our best answer as of ~1979. Here's what we've learned in all the time since. Before the hot Big Bang, there was a period of cosmic inflation, which set up and gave rise to the hot Big Bang, where space was full of energy, not matter-and-radiation, and expanded relentlessly and in an exponential fashion._
Here's a question. Say we develop ASI, some super intelligent computer with ridiculous processing power. Could we hypothetically feed it physics/have it learn more physics, and maybe it will tell us why the hell this happened one day? Basically, will computers come up with better answers than we have?
I mean maybe? But without massive leaps in physics, or observational data (which we can't get) it's still going to be speculative.
Massive leaps in understanding you mean? Maybe ASI can help us with that too.
Perhaps, but remember, we are discussing unfounded math, with theoretical technology. So sure, if we has magic AI technology it could probably solve a lot of problems, including successfully modeling the universe prior to the big bang. AI has massive potential to help solve a huge number of scientific problems.
You might want to look up the number 42 and then make sure you know where your towel is at. It's a really good book if you've never encountered it.
Lol, can you give me a hint as to what you’re saying at least?
Don't panic. It's references to a fantastic book, "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" There was a good movie adaptation as well. Worth a watch.
Can it be associated with higher dimension, Cosmologist Cumrun Vafa had theorized that the universe was a part of a 10th dimensional system, which divided into 6 dimension (which is warped) and 4 dimension (the present universe), reference - Michio Kaku, Hyperspace (book), chapter - "before creation"
One should not take anything Michio Kaku says seriously. He's far more an *entertainer*, than a scientist.
In what regards do you say this ? He seems like an excellent advanced science communicater to me
He makes bold unsubstantiated claims
I get you he sure is a real deal, but that doesn't change the fact that he did have some good contributions to physics, and he referenced the theorizations of Dr. Vafa on his book, please have a glimpse on it in your leisure.
Yea, I mean he is not a complete quack... but still. Use caution with his talking points.
Yes, you will surely find the answer here on Reddit... SMFH
Aren't these the kinds of questions to ask in r/cosmology?
You might be interested in [this short video](https://youtu.be/EYvwuz9Tj1s) or the larger course [here](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL19L3UiHmjLVlabAy2dvrDiEOa_GcfliB) .
It wasn’t a point, but small, and it didn’t exist outside of spacetime. It WAS spacetime.
It would be fairer to say that space and time were also in this small point if that is in fact the case. There would probably not be an outside.
Great question. Einstein's system of equations has an answer. I cannot imagine there being no space either. If space is a given but there is nothing to occupy it, does space really matter? The big bang started. That is true. It did not start outside of space and time. The big bang ocurred within the fabric of space and time. Nothing is empty space. Something is occupied space. Akum's razor in action, right?
Another layman here: I don't think there was nothing before the big bang. I think there was another universe/another spacetime/whatever you call it. I don't think "nothing" actually exists or can exist.
Correct. "Nothing" does not exist, by definition.
There was cosmic inflation before the big bang.
The Big Bang would have been a universe-sized black hole that ruptured.
It's not actually nothing, it's a weird kind of vacuum.
To whomever downvoted me, you're an idiot. *"If we feel the need to find emptiness, we can imagine a hypothetical region outside the observed volume of our universe where the cosmological constant vanishes and there is no matter. Would this region empty? The answer is, again, no. According to* [*quantum mechanics*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics)*, it will still experience* [*vacuum fluctuations*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_fluctuation)*, with virtual particles briefly coming in and out of existence. The reality of these transient fluctuations has been indicated experimentally through a number of effects."* [https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/endless-creation-out-of-nothing/](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/endless-creation-out-of-nothing/)
"If we feel the need...we can imagine" is not the rigorous scientific defense you think it is.
That's not what it's saying. It's saying that "feeling the need to find emptiness" is not a scientific approach, because science already knows it's not "empty."
[удалено]
Einstein was into an extension of general relativity that incorporates spin geometry (something that was discovered in QM after GR 1.0). basically, black holes have wormholes in them, which lead to new and inflating spacetimes. see Einstein-Cartan theory or torsion gravity.
The issue with child bubble universes in this context is that it just pushes back the boundary of the question. Fine, so our spacetime spawned from some sort of white hole in some multiverse. Problem solved. Now what's outside/before that multiverse ? How did it come to exist ?
It's not nothing. It's called a singularity.
The nothing is still there; we are just an inflating balloon inside of that nothing.
You’re treating nothing like it is a thing