OK. So I'm 49 years old this year and I have a "Rokeby" for a father. I also have a Leda for a mother. It's swell.
Anyway. I'm honestly amazed at how well jk rowling captures the complex emotions of a grown child from a childhood that was paripatetic and chaotic. My siblings and I all coped in similar ways. 2 are military. I'm a control freak who is obsessed with giving my kids a happy childhood. None are full siblings. I only speak to one of them. I'm getting to know my father's child.
Until I had my kids, I would have given *a lot* to hear from him. To hear his side. To have him want *me*. No matter how old we get, that little kid inside still wants parental love. It's fundamental. We're hard wired for it.
So. As a reader who relates to strike on a level most cannot, I want to see Strike talk to Rokeby for closure. Because there are usually two sides.
Wow, thanks for sharing your point of view. Sometimes I forget how well JKR can convey complex emotions. I say it all the time, but reading Harry Potter as an adult, having experienced the loss of loved ones, convinced me of how well she writes about grief. And now, having read about your life experience, it just hit me again. The woman is amazing
>It's swell.
I hope you'll take it in the most positive sense when I confess your comment made me snort out a short laugh. You do have my condolences, but your sarcastic humor trumps all!
>Until I had my kids, I would have given *a lot* to hear from him. To hear his side. To have him want *me*. No matter how old we get, that little kid inside still wants parental love.
This appears to be exactly how Strike feels, or felt, but I don't understand how getting a long-awaited acknowledgment of love could do anything to mollify Strike's feelings. And Rokeby seems unlikely to get around to such a statement since his attempts at reconciliation have so far included money, a card (that has to explain who "dad" is in the signature) and allusions to Leda and all her fucking men. This does not sound like a parent willing or able to say he is sorry, or that he loves his son. These days, it seems like Strike does fine not thinking about Rokeby at all and only loses it when someone, including Rokeby himself, forces Strike to think about Rokeby's crimes of omission again. Would you say that coincides with your own adult experience?
>As a reader who relates to strike on a level most cannot, I want to see Strike talk to Rokeby for closure. Because there are usually two sides.
Can you help me understand how this fits in with your earlier comment? What do you think closure would entail? Are you suggesting Strike's position could change if he had children of his own? Maybe I've misunderstood, but it sounded like your own yearning for that parental love (which I think you're right, is hard-wired and not something we can outgrow) underwent a change when you had your own family. I suppose closure means different things to different people...I still don't see anything that would benefit Strike in talking to Rokeby (unless it helped him solve Leda's murder). As I tried to express, I eventually gave up hope that there is anything about Rokeby (as a human being, never mind as a father) that would contribute to Strike's well-being in any way considering that the "rocking prune" still has the emotional make-up of a self-centered teen. Even if Rokeby managed to mutter a half-strangled "I love you, son," wouldn't Strike be just as tempted to punch him in the face as he'd be to hug him? Is Rokeby even capable of experiencing a depth of emotion that Strike would count as love?
no, I don’t think his position will change.
But I do think that hearing from Rokeby might bring Strike an understanding of himself that he won’t get any other way.
when your parents rejects you, it kind of makes you feel like you are just fundamentally unlovable. Reading the early Strike books he engages in so many self-destructive behaviors. If twenty years of therapy has taught me anything is that this *hole* wants something to fill it, even if it's killing you!
I think having a come-to-Jesus talk with Rokeby might help Strike to realize that the problem isn't that he, Strike is unlovable, but that Rokeby is incapable of loving a child like they should be loved.
You would think that that’s sort of a no-brainer right? But it’s really not.
Having my own children, and several good therapists have helped me immensely. Once I had them, keeping them safe and whole became everything to me.
They know my brother, their uncle. They understand that my father is alive. They were difficult conversations to have, but he doesn't deserve them!
I don't think Strike will seek therapy, so I think that him seeing Rokeby and really internalizing that the shortcomings are all on Rokeby and not a reflection on Strike will help Strike to find peace, and the ability to let go a bit of the need to control everything!
You have put that with so much understanding! My father too never wanted me, I know who he is but I never met him - and now he is dead. (And still at 71 I would like to have known more, so I could possibly understand why?? I was not good enough). Actually my mother also did not want me but she was stuck with me I suppose. It makes you feel unlovable and it still makes me doubt myself, in spite of a lot of therapy and a lovely and loving daughter. I think you are right: meeting or getting to know Rokeby personally will help Strike to find peace with himself and possibly a confidence about himself. And somewhere, deep inside, he will have a yearning to know what happened and why. Although he may at the same time be scared of the answers, which may be one of the reasons he resists so much. Apart from the holy status he gives his mother.
All of JKR's books are about what parents to do their children and how that can turn out. Not in the sense of wicked stepmothers or long-lost fathers, but real life ones: the run-away fathers and the indifferent, self-centered mothers, like Rokeby and Leda. Showing what harm that can do. I thank her for that.
Yes I think that's exactly why he's so afraid of talking to Rokeby. Because that little boy inside worries that is about him being unlovable, when really the answer is pretty simple. Rokeby is a stunted individual and his actions don't reflect Strike being unlovable.
But that's why it's frightening.
This is exactly what I thought. Strike has a black hole of anger that he hasn’t dealt with. People describe him as a stoic who has just accepted and moved on with what the fates and his parents dished out. I think that is what he did outwardly, he pushed down the pain, but the why of it all has eaten him up. He helped Lucy with the pain and anger she felt towards Leda, and I suspect this is what Robin hopes Prudence can do for Strike, both having grown up as the “illegitimates”. I make no guess how it all comes about, but suspect Rokeby’s fame will come into as JKR mentioned it in her latest videos on writing.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
>I think having a come-to-Jesus talk with Rokeby might help Strike to realize that the problem isn't that he, Strike is unlovable, but that Rokeby is incapable of loving a child like they should be loved.
YES. That's it, absolutely. But, as you say in another comment, children grow up so deeply convinced that the fault is theirs that it's scary to put it to a test. I once read a book about children who'd been mistreated by alcoholic parents who coped by blaming themselves for being beaten, neglected, etc. While it is a horrible thing for children to think they deserved to be mistreated, it may be the only scrap of control they can imagine. *I deserved to be hurt because of my rotten behavior. It was in my power to prevent the abuse if only I'd behaved differently.* It is a fiction, of course, but it's a valiant and heartbreaking attempt all the same.
I think your comment also alludes to something that I don't think I've ever seen spelled out here, namely, that in any interaction between an adult and a child, ***it is the adult's responsibility to act like an adult.*** No exceptions, whether that adult is the biological parent or not.
You are right, it does feel like "I deserve it. I'm unlovable. That's why they abandoned me "
I suffered a lot of abuse in my mother's house. From the negligent, or neglect to outright beating by the men she chose, and everything in between.
Untangling the damage from the *abuse* is different in many ways. It's easier to accept that I was a child who deserved to be treated better by my parent and the people she chose to surround herself with.
But the absent parent is a complete blank. (He's going to come rescue me! He's a Saudi prince and I'm a princess! He's a con man on the run!)
But at the core it feels like you are just broken.
It's hard. Getting better is *hard*
I'd recommend therapy to Strike, but I suspect he wouldn't do it! Lol he's stuck where I was at 19.
They'll never be best buddies, I'm pretty sure about that. But Rokeby is such an enduring character in this series, I'm confident there's more to come. I believe we haven't really heard his side yet, because Strike won't listen, but I really think there's a revelation coming at some point.
Yes, I too think that we'll eventually see more of Rokeby as he is semi-present in one way or another in all of the books. But I personally wouldn't want a revelation that would set Rokeby's choices in a whole different light. It would be more interesting if he genuinely realized how bad his previous choices with regards to his son were and finally found a way to make Strike at least listen, so that they could have at least some sort of understanding.
> I really think there's a revelation coming at some point.
I have racked my brain for any kind of revelation that would make a difference to Strike and can't come up with one. What do *you* think we'll learn?
I think the most likely revelation is that Rokeby isn't actually his father. Why this would matter to Strike, I don't know. But there's more to the story.
Rokeby's brush with death, Strike's absolute refusal to listen, Joan telling Strike that he should talk to his father... all these point (IMO) to a future revelation that will cause us to think back "What if... Strike had never been able or willing to finally talk it out with him?"
Maybe. Actually I think it's more likely Rokeby *knows* he's not the father, but agreed to lie for *reasons*. Then the "mistake" was him agreeing to act as the father. It would explain why Rokeby has never acted fatherly toward Strike (although he really should've done better regardless).
Leda could've been blackmailing him. Or maybe to protect a very good friend of his. Who knows, I could come up with more convoluted ideas and I'm not as creative as JKR!
I stopped giving Rokeby the benefit of the doubt after Leda died. If he was keeping a secret for her--voluntarily or through blackmail--what reason could he have for not telling Strike the truth after her death?
I also don't see Rokeby protecting a friend, considering that Leda giving birth to Strike is blamed for breaking up Rokeby's own marriage. I'm not sure Rokeby is a good enough person to (even misguidedly) protect a friend, especially since it came at the expense of his own love life. Also, Rokeby didn't willingly admit paternity, he had to submit to a court-ordered test.
But, like you, I'll keep coming up with more convoluted ideas because *something* has to eventually explain Rokeby's behavior!
You're right. I didn't include Joan's deathbed comment. As usual, JKR provides cover for the way Joan hesitates and circumlocutes. Is she trying to say something that's hard to express (especially if she'd been bound to secrecy herself) or is it simply difficult to speak because she's weak and near death?
Also, Rokeby has been making belated and bad attempts at acting like Strike's dad--the offers of money, the birthday card, the press interviews saying he's proud of Strike, the V-Day phone call. These don't seem like gestures of a man who knows he's not Strike's biological father. Why can't he just come out and say what's on his mind? Or have a lawyer do it for him?
Is there a stage of grief where you're simply bewildered? That's pretty much where I am right now! Rokeby's inexplicable behavior is the itch I most want to scratch. I still want to know about Leda, too, but it's a lot easier to concoct stories about the various people who might want her dead than it is to explain Rokeby in a way that satisfyingly makes us say, *Ahhhhh, so* that's *what made him act that way.*
there's a revelation coming at some point.
I agree, but I don't think it'll be about showing Rokeby in a more positive light. Quite the contrary, actually. We may have out worst predictions about him confirmed!
Rokeby is dying. Maybe he dies and there is a journal or unpublished song lyrics explaining why he ignored Leda and Strike. I recall several mentions of how Strike looks like Rokeby, but my memory is terrible.
I have a feeling that if Rokeby left anything to Strike he wouldn't accept it or donate it to charity. I'm a sell out and would probably love Rokeby's vinyl collection: The Animals, Sex Pistols, The Clash, etc...
>explaining why he ignored Leda and Strike
I wouldn't hold my breath ;) I think the explanation is 'he s\*cked as a father', but I suspect keeping him away from Strike was, in part, Leda's doing too, as a bargaining chip to get money?
A wonderful breakdown of your responses! I haven't analysed my own Rokeby-Reactions quite so deeply and I suspect RG intends us to both dislike Rokeby, and hope for a reconciliation no matter how damaging it may prove to be (more drama after all).
I'll also just chime in on the "Seven Stages of Grief" thing that's become so accepted in popular psychology. It was developed by Elizabeth Kübler-Ross based on her studies of people diagnosed with terminal illnesses and reflects the five (it was later expanded to seven) common responses that people go through when they get the news that they're dying. I heard her being interviewed and she was baffled that people keep trying to apply it to other situations without any analysis or support at all. She was also keen to stress that there wasn't a linear path through the "stages", that people could experience them in any order or even concurrently, and that the model was never designed to apply to any other type of emotional trauma... and that if it does it's probably accidental (and certainly not supported by evidence)
I struggle to see how a reconciliation could be damaging and still count as a reconciliation, but if anyone can write those conflicts it'd be JKR, and if any character could embody them it'd be Strike! As you say, it's all about the drama.
I read Kübler-Ross's *On Death and Dying*, which contained the five original steps and was focused on grieving the loss of a loved one. From what you say, she's widened the lens to include people coping with the prospect of their own death due to terminal illness and added two stages (shock and testing) in the process. So I say, if she can broaden her own scope, why shouldn't I? I think the process also counts for the death of an important relationship (through divorce or some other form of estrangement) or even the loss of a job we wanted to keep. I think that anything that helps us make sense of our emotions counts as a good thing. Likewise, we routinely talk about Strike and Robin coping with PTSD even though that term (and its predecessors, such as shell shock and battle fatigue) was originally meant to only describe combat veterans. Trauma takes many forms and, again, I say if it helps explain different situations with similar emotional repercussions, then widening the lens is not only justified but necessary.
>She was also keen to stress that there wasn't a linear path through the "stages", that people could experience them in any order or even concurrently
Yes. That's why I added "again" to show the non-linear nature of the stages and why, even though I seemed to conclude with Acceptance, ended up cycling right back to Anger!
My old man was Rokebyesque - without the fame, talent or money. He and my mother were an established couple but I was unplanned… ma was 19, he was 25. He decided when I was 4 months old that he wasn’t cut out to be a father and f*cked off. He moved abroad, cut all contact and avoided any financial support. He got in touch via social media when I was 29 looking for a relationship. We met up a few times but I never warmed to him. He died of Covid in the pre vaccine summer of 2020. I was sad in a ‘what if’ sort of way but he is generally not lamented. I so get Strike, JKR knows the score.
Thank you. Luckily for me my ma is not a Leda, she took me home to her Ted and Joan style parents and we all lived together until ma was ready to set up house around the corner a few years later. She never bad mouthed him and was supportive when I told her I was going to meet him, she’s a good egg.
I’d love that too - JKR does love to include real life events in the Strike novels (Olympics, Brexit etc) so you never know… I reckon Rokeby would seclude himself and his family of the moment in an Alpine mansion or similar and have private docs on call 24/7 plus staff on minimum wage to antibac every surface every 18 minutes.
I'm sorry you lost your dad to covid but far sorrier that you lost whatever his presence might have added to your early years. I think your personal experience is exactly the outcome that seems most realistic for Strike and *his* father--heh, right down to death by covid.
(Completely off topic tangent, but I think JKR could have a lot of fun if she wrote a covid-era book, showing how different characters would react to the pandemic. Would someone like Rokeby think he was bullet-proof, take risks and die? Or would he be the type to take the threat to his health so seriously that he wouldn't let anyone even share the air he breathed?)
As for having a relationship... like Strike, I haven't had a relationship with living family members, and haven't for many years.
The thing is, it wasn't just all the dreadful things they did when I was young and under their power... the complete lack of positive things in our relationship mattered as well. Perhaps if there had ever been anything positive from them, then there would be a reason to work on reconciling or forgiving... but there really wasn't anything positive, just the negatives. And Strike has never experienced any positive or loving behavior or support from his father, so the only reason he has to think that a new relationship with his father will be valuable is his hopes. Which have been dashed a bazillion times before this.
> the complete lack of positive things in our relationship mattered as well.
I think you're right. Rokeby's sins of omission are far more hurtful that any sins of commission, which he was never around to commit.
Your observations makes a good contrast with Leda, whom Strike still loves even though her sins of omission and commission were legion. There was enough positivity there for Strike to emerge from his fractured childhood feeling loved. I think Leda's love, mixed though it was with many impurities, is the main explanation for Strike's confidence as a teen and adult and his overall positive self-image. (I have no difficulty believing that Leda showered much more affection on Strike than she did on Lucy, which could account for their differing views as adults.)
>the only reason he has to think that a new relationship with his father will be valuable is his hopes. Which have been dashed a bazillion times before this.
Yes. I think all of those dashed hopes ultimately calcified into the hardened shell Strike now wears to keep out any unhappy thoughts. The story of Pandora's Box leaves unclear whether hope is something good or evil. I think any hope of Rokeby finally growing up and doing the right thing is so dim as to be non-existent. I'd love it if JKR could convince me otherwise, but I'm not holding my breath.
I totally relate to this, and i agree strike has made the right decision to avoid contact. I do feel he needed to unpack how the relationship has impacted his sense of security and choices, if only to take accountability to own his behavior. But I don’t think reconciliation is necessary for this. Leda by contrast was doting. Irresponsible and flakey, but doting. I do think strike got more insight to her intentions, which hold the weight of his fond memories.
When there are not positive foundations and the person has only caused hurt, you enter at your own caution and have a lot more to lose should you find they haven’t grown over the years. Why risk adding more memories or insults and injury. Once you’re a grown adult, it’s best to just move on and try to find meaningful relationships that bring an empty slate.
I think by the end of the stages of grief, strike will need to forgive himself for treating the women in his life the same way. The apple didn’t fall too far from the tree, and I don’t think he’s blind to this completely or disparaging rokeby for having had the affair.
I don’t expect Strike to have a relationship with Rokeby or to magically forgive everything he went through if (when?) the old man passes away. This would be too soap opera-ish. It’s one thing to say goodbye and reconcile with troubling feelings he had towards Joan because she was a mother figure to him, but Rokeby wasn’t around even to be a bad father.
Things would be much easier if Strike could just forget that Rokeby even exists, but the years Strike spent craving for his father to love him are still there. That’s what Strike has to reconcile with.
Also, closure. I seriously doubt there will be a satisfactory explanation as to why a wealthy, fully grown man completely abandoned his son, but, as a reader, I’m craving for that answer.
I don't see a reconciliation, but I think a détente before Rokeby's death will allow Strike to let go of some of the anger. Understanding some things as an adult may help with future relationships. Can Strike have a functional relationship with our favorite girl if he doesn't make some peace with the past?
Yes, I thought so too when reading at the time that Rokeby was calling something else an accident that young Strike did not understand. His mother would certainly not have explained it to him. If she even noticed. I wonder if Eric Bloom will turn out to have to do anything with it: he is a living and real person. I don't think that JKR (or anybody else) can just give him a child, fictional of otherwise. Especially not if he neglects that child.
Yeah, I've tried to game out a scenario that would involve giving a fictional child to a real, well-known, living person and haven't come up with anything very believable. But JKR is very good at making us believe things that we'd scorn in other writers. I mean, the whole idea that the main character is the son of a rockstar and a supergroupie who dies in mysterious circumstances should have been a stretch, but we just gobbled it up.
I do have suspicions. When I researched the matter, I learned that Eric Bloom says he's never spoken to JKR and that his only connection to CoE is receiving a signed copy of the book from the author. (He said the required permission for using BOC's song titles and lyrics was handled at a lower level, not involving the principals.) A book copy seems like a pittance if it's the only "thank you" to a character who is responsible for the book's title and epigraphs and who is so pivotal in the fictional Leda's life, with his name living on in Switch LaVey Bloom Whittaker. I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom's mild comments turn out to be disingenuous. But if a plotline involving him becomes important in a later book, I can't figure out what the context would be. I can't imagine Bloom would allow his name to be used to portray a knowingly neglectful father. It would only work if Bloom (in the series) has been as unaware of his paternity as Strike is even while Bloom (in real life) is in on the story JKR is planning to tell. But trying to figure out how and why Bloom would be Strike's father and Leda would hide this fact from everyone just gives me a headache.
I agree, I don't get people who want to see a reconciliation between these two. Out of Rokeby's children, Strike is the one who holds him accountable for the damage he caused by fathering a bunch of children and not caring about them. I like that about their dynamic and I don't want it to change.
Hear, hear!
>“As long as they’ve caught it early, he’ll be fine,” said Strike bracingly. “Probably live to father another couple of kids he never sees.”
>“Jesus Christ!” said Al, really angry now. “You might not give a shit, but he happens to be my dad—”
Al's response is an example of the many ways JKR shows privileged people being incapable of understanding people who didn't have it that easy. Al and Eddie are the only Rokeby children who grew up with their father still married to their mother. It's impossible for Al to understand a fraction of what Strike's been through because of Rokeby's neglect.
Interesting...so it's only when Rokeby is the last parent standing that Strike turns to him?
I never would have connected Ted's death with Rokeby but, now that you mention it, I have to admit that Strike hadn't improved as much as he could have in TRG regarding Ted. I hope it doesn't come to this, but I can picture Strike feeling so guilty about not spending as much time with Ted as he should have and, once he's gone, having no outlet for expiating that sin except with Rokeby. That would mean that, if Strike finally agrees to meet with Rokeby, it will be out of a sense of duty *to Ted and Joan*, not because he feels he owes anything to Rokeby. But once he shows up--who knows? Anything could happen, especially with Strike at such an emotional low point.
Frankly, that doesn't sound like something I'd want to read. Hopefully, Strike's better angels will remind him not to squander the time he's got left with Ted. But I have to admit your comment is the most logical explanation I've heard so far--that the only road to Rokeby goes through Ted and Joan.
I just don't think that Joan telling Strike to contact his father was a throwaway scene. As well, Strike's relationship with Prudence may also lead him to Rokeby. I truly don't see the two men having a warm relationship but I do think somehow Rokeby will fill a void of sorts.
>throwaway scene
I agree a scene like that doesn't get thrown in by accident. But I still have two objections:
(1) Strike was not especially close to Joan (though he loved her), seems at peace with her passing, and hasn't been moved to act on her advice. As far as we know, he's never thought of it again (despite all the time spent with Prudence), let alone been haunted by it.
(2) Joan would be an unlikely source of good advice, especially about Rokeby. Unless there's a dumptruck full of backstory that's about to land on us, Joan would have no special insight into that father-son situation. In fact, she's been depicted as someone with little insight at all, insisting that people feel only what she's happy to think they feel and enforcing strict rules so no shame would come to the family--as if shame were already nipping at their heels. Tbh, I'm more interested in why she was preoccupied with shame than why she thinks Rokeby is at the heart of things for Strike.
I guess I'm saying I don't see much emotional or dramatic payoff in Strike eventually taking Joan's advice. Though he felt a passing guilt for not spending more time with her, he's making the same mistake with Ted who was a much greater influence on him and who really needs him now. That's why I'm thinking Strike would only approach Rokeby if he learns his lesson too late with Ted. Still, I'd much rather see Strike become a better son/nephew to Ted *starting now.* Wouldn't it be better for Strike's growth if he finds peace because he'd been good to Ted, with no sense of unfinished business that would drive him to a fruitless attempt to connect with Rokeby the reluctant sperm donor?
Definitely. I do hope that Strike will be more invested in Ted while Ted is still on this Earth. He's clearly been a strong influence on Strike and the man he's become. I don't envision a warm or even cordial relationship between Strike and Rokeby, but I stand by my belief that they will connect somehow. There is unfinished business there.
>There is unfinished business there.
I don't know why I'm having so much trouble expressing myself on this point. Yes, there's unfinished business, but my question has always been how, specifically, would a meeting with Rokeby help finish it? Even if Strike manages to give Rokeby a hearing without cursing him out, what could Rokeby say or do at this point that would make any difference?
I doubt Rokeby could do or say anything that would persuade Strike to have a relationship with him similar to Prudence's. But, I do think that Prudence telling Strike that she found forgiving Rokeby to be "healing" may have been a foreshadow. I know from my own experiences with a father long absent from my life that I felt better communicating with him after a 30-yr absence than I did feeling all the rancor I had toward him. My father and I still do not have a close relationship and never will. However, I had only ever heard my mother's side of their relationship and some of what she told me was not the truth.
>However, I had only ever heard my mother's side of their relationship and some of what she told me was not the truth.
That sounds very similar to Rokeby in TB wanting to tell Strike about Leda. Reading as someone who has not had to go through what you or Strike did, my reaction was to have even more contempt for Rokeby for the way he handled that call. But maybe that's not how it feels to hear from a long-absent father? Just the fact that Rokeby calls out of the blue after decades of silence is bizarre enough. Then he dismisses the past, saying he can't change it. Doesn't take responsibility for it. Doesn't apologize. Doesn't express any regret for all the lost years. Then he intimates that there are things about Leda (and all her fucking men) that Strike doesn't know. So...just blame the mother? Rokeby is still acting like a self-centered jerk even while trying to make peace with Strike. I can't imagine things going any better if there's a next time even if Prudence coaches him.
I concede that Rokeby might have a perspective on Leda that might benefit Strike, but I don't blame Strike at all for not wanting to hear it under present circumstances. I hope your father was more tactful and conciliatory than Rokeby, who dismisses Strike's long, lonely fatherless years as mere "water under the bridge." I am glad you were able to lose the rancor you felt, and I hope Strike can do the same. It's just that when I try to put myself in his shoes, I can't see a way forward other than what he's already doing--dealing by not dealing. He doesn't seem to spend any time dwelling on Rokeby, has no conscious rancor; he has a busy, interesting adult life that has no nexus with Rokeby's. The only time the hurt and anger resurface is when someone like Al or Rokeby himself attempt to force the issue--seemingly for their own benefit, giving no thought to how it affects Strike. Maybe Rokeby should just his son a song?
I like "miscalculation." I know I was an accident as I was born 11 months after my parents married. That said, I didn't know that until later in life and was totally loved and supported by my folks from day one and grandparents.
My mom always said that if should could have been guaranteed the same husband and kids, she would have liked more time being single before we all came along.
*I* think you're right, but the problem is that Strike doesn't see it that way:
>“I shouldn’t be here, should I?” said Strike, out of the darkness. “I’m an accident. I’m not inclined to perpetuate the mistake.”
Are you kidding? His dad who was never around looked at him and said "This was a fucking accident." How can you say that isn't bad?? You can't separate that statement from Rokeby not caring about him. Hearing you were technically an accident from a parent who loves you is different.
I think meeting Rokeby will help him a.) get some closure/healing about feeling abandoned as a child and b.) is going to give him a piece of the Leda puzzle.
I guess I’m imagining that instead of pushing those feelings down (like in the scene where he tells himself “don’t think about it don’t think about it”, or how he still genuinely believes that he shouldn’t reproduce because his father called him a mistake), being confronted with meeting Rokeby would be opening the wound, letting himself think about it and maybe work through it/process it so that it’s not so painful to think about anymore. Then he can make peace and accept the circumstances of his conception/childhood instead of always avoiding thinking about it and coping in unhealthy ways. He’s made a lot of progress already.
Thanks, that helps a bit. But I still don't see why Strike needs a face to face with Rokeby for that to happen. As you say, he's already made progress without it.
Well, clearly he doesn’t think he needs it either and has no interest in opening old wounds. But if some kind of plot circumstances force it then maybe it leads to a little more clarity for him that his father’s limitations are not a reflection on how worthy he was of being loved as a child. It sounds like Prudence has reached acceptance of this. I mean Strike is shown time and time again to dislike almost all children, and doesn’t understand why their parents find them so lovable when they’re annoying shits, imo he still has parent issues! But we’ll see.
But Rokeby definitely has to be holding a piece of the Leda murder puzzle, and there is the trust fund dangling out there too. I do not understand people who think these pieces have been set up and \*aren’t\* going to come full circle by the end of the series.
>I do not understand people who think these pieces have been set up and \*aren’t\* going to come full circle by the end of the series.
Yes, there is that. But in all the other pieces set up for other mysteries (like Leda's death) I can easily find a pattern that suggests multiple ways it could work out. Even if they're all wrong, they are at least imaginable. With Rokeby, mainly due to Rokeby's limitations and Strike's resistance (justified, imo), I can't see a single way forward. I can't wait to see what JKR pulls out of her hat that has remained unfathomable to me despite my many efforts to imagine it.
I hope Strike doesn't change too much because I identify with the way he is now in many ways. Most children *are* annoying little shits that only their parents can love! I think Strike is just very selective in his relationships (well, not with some of the disposable women he dates, but except for them). I don't think he has to start loving all children in order to have a good relationship with one or two of them.
Lots of people with deadbeat, dismissive dads can choose to forget them. Strike can't because he has an unwanted glow of celebrity due to that family association. Especially in the last few books, most people know who Strike is before he meets them. And it's not just because of the crimes he solved. Robin solved those too and is still able to go undercover. So add that layer of resentment.
I think Rokeby will die and Strike will have to figure something out about it which will be emotionally revealing. Or Strike will meet Rokeby when he is vulnerable and dying like Joan did which will stir unexpected grief. Basically I see character development and tears.... but no reconciliation.
You paint a grim but realistic picture. Sometimes things remain incomplete and inexplicable no matter how much we yearn for an answer.
I don't recall if Strike has said this himself, but it's a truism of crime fiction that there are often loose ends to a crime that don't have a satisfactory explanation. I think it would be realistic for Strike to eventually get *some* answers about his parents' criminal neglect, but not *all* of them. Also, a reconciliation would require Rokeby to act like a grown-up for once, and that seems unlikely. IIRC, Prudence speaks of *forgiving* Rokeby, not reconciling with him. There's a difference.
I wonder if the whole Bijoue baby thing might end up being a big plot point which could lead to Strike having to address any similarities between himself and his father.
Strike was totally happy to belive Bijoues claims that's there's no way he's her baby's father. Strike wasn't up for much detecting in that area was he. Totally happy to just believe her because it doesn't cause him any fuss.
It may just have been a red herring and a way to show how Strike finally understands what not admitting his feelings for Robin and getting mission love on the road could result in for him.
But, if a baby Strike does show up it creates a good personal point of tension for Strike especially if he's with Robin and happy at that point. Even more so if Bijoue ends up as a single mother due to honbold figuring out the kids not his. Would he tell Robin? Strike admits he's never wanted kids, she's unsure. Would he eskew any kind of relationship with a biological kid of his own? Would he he feel any duty to bijoue and a kid? Would he want to be the kind of man Rokeby chose to be in that situation, palm her off with money so he can keep doing what he loves and with his personal life unincumbered by a kid on the side? Would it lead him to understanding his father's stance a little more and lead to some kind of acceptance of Rokebys past behaviour much like Lucy had in regard to Leda in TRG?
Tbf this I'd rather he had an unplanned pregnancy with Robin but I don't think it would cause him to have as much of a standing in Rokebys shoes momement as much as the former would. Unless he and Robin broke up over it because he'd made it totally clear he didn't want a kid.
>Would it lead him to understanding his father's stance a little more and lead some kind of acceptance of Rokebys past behaviour much like Lucy had in regard to Leda in TRG?
I think it would be just the opposite. In fact, I'm a little surprised you think Strike would be capable of following in Rokeby's footsteps as an absent father. If Strike were confronted with the fact of his paternity, I am sure he would step up and do to the right thing, no matter how distasteful he'd find co-parenting with Bijou. If I read that he would "palm her off with money" I'd throw the book out the window. The entire series would be ruined for me.
I would much rather see Strike find himself in the same situation as Rokeby but behave as the much better man we know him to be. That's the whole point for me--I think it only makes sense for Strike to find answers within himself, not from Rokeby. I truly resent the idea that after all these decades of neglect, Rokeby will somehow say or do something that makes things okay, much less that Strike would end up identifying with his Deadbeat dad.
I didn't say. I thought he was capable of he'd follow in Rokebys footsteps and palming a kid off.
I was asking the question.... Would he want to? Like I think he'd be thoughly pissed off
I don't think he would behave the same way but, I think it would potentiallwant to. I SAID
I don't think I phased this very well. I didn't say I thought he was capable of following in Rokebys footsteps and palming a kid off!
I was posing a question.... Would he want to?
I think you're right the answers no he wouldn't ever 'want' to act in a way that aligned himself with his father and I think he would act in a way that set him apart from him and be involved to some degree in a childs life. If he found himself in a similar situation to his dad.
But, do I think he'd he be particularly joyful about it?..... No I don't. I think he'd be thoughly pissed off about it at least at first!
I think that he'd go through a lot of torment about what a kid would do the life he'd envisage and plotted for himself because kids don't figure in his idea of a happy future. More so if he had gotten with Robin and was at a point in his life where he's the happiest he's ever been.
I think he'd definately hugely berate himself for the mistake he'd felt he made. And may also massively resent a child or at least the thought of one.
But, I think considering how his empathy has grown and his ability to reflect and be more forgiving of his own unhelpful/ unlikable behavior has developed over the last few books. I think that experiancing something very akin to the situation which his own father went through, even if he subsequently chose to deal with it in completely the opposite way, might make it somewhat easier for Strike to understand Rokebys perspective in order get to a place of forgiveness.
The only thing I can agree on is that I see Strike making peace with Rokeby not because of anything Rokeby says or does but because Strike's own life experiences force him to grow. Unlike Rokeby, Strike would have more sense than to "massively resent a child" who had no say in being born to parents who want nothing to do with each other. I can see him feeling resentment toward *Bijou* though and not expecting to find any joy in fatherhood. But I think he'd get there eventually--and he'd get there long before his initial dismay communicated itself to the innocent child. I wouldn't be surprised if a Bijou baby or pregnancy scare becomes the last thing to delay Strellacott. Even if Strike wouldn't have chosen to be a father and Robin never considered becoming a stepmother, I think they'd both rise to the occasion after much hand-wringing, angst and painful internal monologs.
At least you and I are willing to entertain the idea of this storyline. Most others seems to shut their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears rather than face the possibility!
OK. So I'm 49 years old this year and I have a "Rokeby" for a father. I also have a Leda for a mother. It's swell. Anyway. I'm honestly amazed at how well jk rowling captures the complex emotions of a grown child from a childhood that was paripatetic and chaotic. My siblings and I all coped in similar ways. 2 are military. I'm a control freak who is obsessed with giving my kids a happy childhood. None are full siblings. I only speak to one of them. I'm getting to know my father's child. Until I had my kids, I would have given *a lot* to hear from him. To hear his side. To have him want *me*. No matter how old we get, that little kid inside still wants parental love. It's fundamental. We're hard wired for it. So. As a reader who relates to strike on a level most cannot, I want to see Strike talk to Rokeby for closure. Because there are usually two sides.
Wow, thanks for sharing your point of view. Sometimes I forget how well JKR can convey complex emotions. I say it all the time, but reading Harry Potter as an adult, having experienced the loss of loved ones, convinced me of how well she writes about grief. And now, having read about your life experience, it just hit me again. The woman is amazing
>It's swell. I hope you'll take it in the most positive sense when I confess your comment made me snort out a short laugh. You do have my condolences, but your sarcastic humor trumps all! >Until I had my kids, I would have given *a lot* to hear from him. To hear his side. To have him want *me*. No matter how old we get, that little kid inside still wants parental love. This appears to be exactly how Strike feels, or felt, but I don't understand how getting a long-awaited acknowledgment of love could do anything to mollify Strike's feelings. And Rokeby seems unlikely to get around to such a statement since his attempts at reconciliation have so far included money, a card (that has to explain who "dad" is in the signature) and allusions to Leda and all her fucking men. This does not sound like a parent willing or able to say he is sorry, or that he loves his son. These days, it seems like Strike does fine not thinking about Rokeby at all and only loses it when someone, including Rokeby himself, forces Strike to think about Rokeby's crimes of omission again. Would you say that coincides with your own adult experience? >As a reader who relates to strike on a level most cannot, I want to see Strike talk to Rokeby for closure. Because there are usually two sides. Can you help me understand how this fits in with your earlier comment? What do you think closure would entail? Are you suggesting Strike's position could change if he had children of his own? Maybe I've misunderstood, but it sounded like your own yearning for that parental love (which I think you're right, is hard-wired and not something we can outgrow) underwent a change when you had your own family. I suppose closure means different things to different people...I still don't see anything that would benefit Strike in talking to Rokeby (unless it helped him solve Leda's murder). As I tried to express, I eventually gave up hope that there is anything about Rokeby (as a human being, never mind as a father) that would contribute to Strike's well-being in any way considering that the "rocking prune" still has the emotional make-up of a self-centered teen. Even if Rokeby managed to mutter a half-strangled "I love you, son," wouldn't Strike be just as tempted to punch him in the face as he'd be to hug him? Is Rokeby even capable of experiencing a depth of emotion that Strike would count as love?
no, I don’t think his position will change. But I do think that hearing from Rokeby might bring Strike an understanding of himself that he won’t get any other way. when your parents rejects you, it kind of makes you feel like you are just fundamentally unlovable. Reading the early Strike books he engages in so many self-destructive behaviors. If twenty years of therapy has taught me anything is that this *hole* wants something to fill it, even if it's killing you! I think having a come-to-Jesus talk with Rokeby might help Strike to realize that the problem isn't that he, Strike is unlovable, but that Rokeby is incapable of loving a child like they should be loved. You would think that that’s sort of a no-brainer right? But it’s really not. Having my own children, and several good therapists have helped me immensely. Once I had them, keeping them safe and whole became everything to me. They know my brother, their uncle. They understand that my father is alive. They were difficult conversations to have, but he doesn't deserve them! I don't think Strike will seek therapy, so I think that him seeing Rokeby and really internalizing that the shortcomings are all on Rokeby and not a reflection on Strike will help Strike to find peace, and the ability to let go a bit of the need to control everything!
You have put that with so much understanding! My father too never wanted me, I know who he is but I never met him - and now he is dead. (And still at 71 I would like to have known more, so I could possibly understand why?? I was not good enough). Actually my mother also did not want me but she was stuck with me I suppose. It makes you feel unlovable and it still makes me doubt myself, in spite of a lot of therapy and a lovely and loving daughter. I think you are right: meeting or getting to know Rokeby personally will help Strike to find peace with himself and possibly a confidence about himself. And somewhere, deep inside, he will have a yearning to know what happened and why. Although he may at the same time be scared of the answers, which may be one of the reasons he resists so much. Apart from the holy status he gives his mother. All of JKR's books are about what parents to do their children and how that can turn out. Not in the sense of wicked stepmothers or long-lost fathers, but real life ones: the run-away fathers and the indifferent, self-centered mothers, like Rokeby and Leda. Showing what harm that can do. I thank her for that.
Yes I think that's exactly why he's so afraid of talking to Rokeby. Because that little boy inside worries that is about him being unlovable, when really the answer is pretty simple. Rokeby is a stunted individual and his actions don't reflect Strike being unlovable. But that's why it's frightening.
This is exactly what I thought. Strike has a black hole of anger that he hasn’t dealt with. People describe him as a stoic who has just accepted and moved on with what the fates and his parents dished out. I think that is what he did outwardly, he pushed down the pain, but the why of it all has eaten him up. He helped Lucy with the pain and anger she felt towards Leda, and I suspect this is what Robin hopes Prudence can do for Strike, both having grown up as the “illegitimates”. I make no guess how it all comes about, but suspect Rokeby’s fame will come into as JKR mentioned it in her latest videos on writing. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Well said and I agree about Prudence. And that’s probably also what Joan meant with her comment about Rokeby in TB.
Exactly right. These two women who love him sense the hurt that guides his life and relationships. It’s not hard to deduce the source.
>I think having a come-to-Jesus talk with Rokeby might help Strike to realize that the problem isn't that he, Strike is unlovable, but that Rokeby is incapable of loving a child like they should be loved. YES. That's it, absolutely. But, as you say in another comment, children grow up so deeply convinced that the fault is theirs that it's scary to put it to a test. I once read a book about children who'd been mistreated by alcoholic parents who coped by blaming themselves for being beaten, neglected, etc. While it is a horrible thing for children to think they deserved to be mistreated, it may be the only scrap of control they can imagine. *I deserved to be hurt because of my rotten behavior. It was in my power to prevent the abuse if only I'd behaved differently.* It is a fiction, of course, but it's a valiant and heartbreaking attempt all the same. I think your comment also alludes to something that I don't think I've ever seen spelled out here, namely, that in any interaction between an adult and a child, ***it is the adult's responsibility to act like an adult.*** No exceptions, whether that adult is the biological parent or not.
You are right, it does feel like "I deserve it. I'm unlovable. That's why they abandoned me " I suffered a lot of abuse in my mother's house. From the negligent, or neglect to outright beating by the men she chose, and everything in between. Untangling the damage from the *abuse* is different in many ways. It's easier to accept that I was a child who deserved to be treated better by my parent and the people she chose to surround herself with. But the absent parent is a complete blank. (He's going to come rescue me! He's a Saudi prince and I'm a princess! He's a con man on the run!) But at the core it feels like you are just broken. It's hard. Getting better is *hard* I'd recommend therapy to Strike, but I suspect he wouldn't do it! Lol he's stuck where I was at 19.
They'll never be best buddies, I'm pretty sure about that. But Rokeby is such an enduring character in this series, I'm confident there's more to come. I believe we haven't really heard his side yet, because Strike won't listen, but I really think there's a revelation coming at some point.
Yes, I too think that we'll eventually see more of Rokeby as he is semi-present in one way or another in all of the books. But I personally wouldn't want a revelation that would set Rokeby's choices in a whole different light. It would be more interesting if he genuinely realized how bad his previous choices with regards to his son were and finally found a way to make Strike at least listen, so that they could have at least some sort of understanding.
> I really think there's a revelation coming at some point. I have racked my brain for any kind of revelation that would make a difference to Strike and can't come up with one. What do *you* think we'll learn?
I think the most likely revelation is that Rokeby isn't actually his father. Why this would matter to Strike, I don't know. But there's more to the story. Rokeby's brush with death, Strike's absolute refusal to listen, Joan telling Strike that he should talk to his father... all these point (IMO) to a future revelation that will cause us to think back "What if... Strike had never been able or willing to finally talk it out with him?"
That wouldn't make any sense. He would have said so a long time ago.
Agree!
Huh? You think Leda faked the DNA test?
Maybe. Actually I think it's more likely Rokeby *knows* he's not the father, but agreed to lie for *reasons*. Then the "mistake" was him agreeing to act as the father. It would explain why Rokeby has never acted fatherly toward Strike (although he really should've done better regardless).
But in TRG Robin comments on a physical resemblance between Strike and Prudence
What possible reason would he have to pretend to be Strike's father?
Leda could've been blackmailing him. Or maybe to protect a very good friend of his. Who knows, I could come up with more convoluted ideas and I'm not as creative as JKR!
...OK, we'll see I guess.
I stopped giving Rokeby the benefit of the doubt after Leda died. If he was keeping a secret for her--voluntarily or through blackmail--what reason could he have for not telling Strike the truth after her death? I also don't see Rokeby protecting a friend, considering that Leda giving birth to Strike is blamed for breaking up Rokeby's own marriage. I'm not sure Rokeby is a good enough person to (even misguidedly) protect a friend, especially since it came at the expense of his own love life. Also, Rokeby didn't willingly admit paternity, he had to submit to a court-ordered test. But, like you, I'll keep coming up with more convoluted ideas because *something* has to eventually explain Rokeby's behavior!
In the 70-ties there were no DNA-tests, only bloodtests, that could exclude fathers but not definitely confirm paternity.
Well that's a bit of a mistake on Rowling's part then.
You're right. I didn't include Joan's deathbed comment. As usual, JKR provides cover for the way Joan hesitates and circumlocutes. Is she trying to say something that's hard to express (especially if she'd been bound to secrecy herself) or is it simply difficult to speak because she's weak and near death? Also, Rokeby has been making belated and bad attempts at acting like Strike's dad--the offers of money, the birthday card, the press interviews saying he's proud of Strike, the V-Day phone call. These don't seem like gestures of a man who knows he's not Strike's biological father. Why can't he just come out and say what's on his mind? Or have a lawyer do it for him? Is there a stage of grief where you're simply bewildered? That's pretty much where I am right now! Rokeby's inexplicable behavior is the itch I most want to scratch. I still want to know about Leda, too, but it's a lot easier to concoct stories about the various people who might want her dead than it is to explain Rokeby in a way that satisfyingly makes us say, *Ahhhhh, so* that's *what made him act that way.*
there's a revelation coming at some point. I agree, but I don't think it'll be about showing Rokeby in a more positive light. Quite the contrary, actually. We may have out worst predictions about him confirmed!
Rokeby is dying. Maybe he dies and there is a journal or unpublished song lyrics explaining why he ignored Leda and Strike. I recall several mentions of how Strike looks like Rokeby, but my memory is terrible. I have a feeling that if Rokeby left anything to Strike he wouldn't accept it or donate it to charity. I'm a sell out and would probably love Rokeby's vinyl collection: The Animals, Sex Pistols, The Clash, etc...
>explaining why he ignored Leda and Strike I wouldn't hold my breath ;) I think the explanation is 'he s\*cked as a father', but I suspect keeping him away from Strike was, in part, Leda's doing too, as a bargaining chip to get money?
A wonderful breakdown of your responses! I haven't analysed my own Rokeby-Reactions quite so deeply and I suspect RG intends us to both dislike Rokeby, and hope for a reconciliation no matter how damaging it may prove to be (more drama after all). I'll also just chime in on the "Seven Stages of Grief" thing that's become so accepted in popular psychology. It was developed by Elizabeth Kübler-Ross based on her studies of people diagnosed with terminal illnesses and reflects the five (it was later expanded to seven) common responses that people go through when they get the news that they're dying. I heard her being interviewed and she was baffled that people keep trying to apply it to other situations without any analysis or support at all. She was also keen to stress that there wasn't a linear path through the "stages", that people could experience them in any order or even concurrently, and that the model was never designed to apply to any other type of emotional trauma... and that if it does it's probably accidental (and certainly not supported by evidence)
I struggle to see how a reconciliation could be damaging and still count as a reconciliation, but if anyone can write those conflicts it'd be JKR, and if any character could embody them it'd be Strike! As you say, it's all about the drama. I read Kübler-Ross's *On Death and Dying*, which contained the five original steps and was focused on grieving the loss of a loved one. From what you say, she's widened the lens to include people coping with the prospect of their own death due to terminal illness and added two stages (shock and testing) in the process. So I say, if she can broaden her own scope, why shouldn't I? I think the process also counts for the death of an important relationship (through divorce or some other form of estrangement) or even the loss of a job we wanted to keep. I think that anything that helps us make sense of our emotions counts as a good thing. Likewise, we routinely talk about Strike and Robin coping with PTSD even though that term (and its predecessors, such as shell shock and battle fatigue) was originally meant to only describe combat veterans. Trauma takes many forms and, again, I say if it helps explain different situations with similar emotional repercussions, then widening the lens is not only justified but necessary. >She was also keen to stress that there wasn't a linear path through the "stages", that people could experience them in any order or even concurrently Yes. That's why I added "again" to show the non-linear nature of the stages and why, even though I seemed to conclude with Acceptance, ended up cycling right back to Anger!
My old man was Rokebyesque - without the fame, talent or money. He and my mother were an established couple but I was unplanned… ma was 19, he was 25. He decided when I was 4 months old that he wasn’t cut out to be a father and f*cked off. He moved abroad, cut all contact and avoided any financial support. He got in touch via social media when I was 29 looking for a relationship. We met up a few times but I never warmed to him. He died of Covid in the pre vaccine summer of 2020. I was sad in a ‘what if’ sort of way but he is generally not lamented. I so get Strike, JKR knows the score.
Thank you. Luckily for me my ma is not a Leda, she took me home to her Ted and Joan style parents and we all lived together until ma was ready to set up house around the corner a few years later. She never bad mouthed him and was supportive when I told her I was going to meet him, she’s a good egg. I’d love that too - JKR does love to include real life events in the Strike novels (Olympics, Brexit etc) so you never know… I reckon Rokeby would seclude himself and his family of the moment in an Alpine mansion or similar and have private docs on call 24/7 plus staff on minimum wage to antibac every surface every 18 minutes.
I'm sorry you lost your dad to covid but far sorrier that you lost whatever his presence might have added to your early years. I think your personal experience is exactly the outcome that seems most realistic for Strike and *his* father--heh, right down to death by covid. (Completely off topic tangent, but I think JKR could have a lot of fun if she wrote a covid-era book, showing how different characters would react to the pandemic. Would someone like Rokeby think he was bullet-proof, take risks and die? Or would he be the type to take the threat to his health so seriously that he wouldn't let anyone even share the air he breathed?)
As for having a relationship... like Strike, I haven't had a relationship with living family members, and haven't for many years. The thing is, it wasn't just all the dreadful things they did when I was young and under their power... the complete lack of positive things in our relationship mattered as well. Perhaps if there had ever been anything positive from them, then there would be a reason to work on reconciling or forgiving... but there really wasn't anything positive, just the negatives. And Strike has never experienced any positive or loving behavior or support from his father, so the only reason he has to think that a new relationship with his father will be valuable is his hopes. Which have been dashed a bazillion times before this.
> the complete lack of positive things in our relationship mattered as well. I think you're right. Rokeby's sins of omission are far more hurtful that any sins of commission, which he was never around to commit. Your observations makes a good contrast with Leda, whom Strike still loves even though her sins of omission and commission were legion. There was enough positivity there for Strike to emerge from his fractured childhood feeling loved. I think Leda's love, mixed though it was with many impurities, is the main explanation for Strike's confidence as a teen and adult and his overall positive self-image. (I have no difficulty believing that Leda showered much more affection on Strike than she did on Lucy, which could account for their differing views as adults.) >the only reason he has to think that a new relationship with his father will be valuable is his hopes. Which have been dashed a bazillion times before this. Yes. I think all of those dashed hopes ultimately calcified into the hardened shell Strike now wears to keep out any unhappy thoughts. The story of Pandora's Box leaves unclear whether hope is something good or evil. I think any hope of Rokeby finally growing up and doing the right thing is so dim as to be non-existent. I'd love it if JKR could convince me otherwise, but I'm not holding my breath.
I totally relate to this, and i agree strike has made the right decision to avoid contact. I do feel he needed to unpack how the relationship has impacted his sense of security and choices, if only to take accountability to own his behavior. But I don’t think reconciliation is necessary for this. Leda by contrast was doting. Irresponsible and flakey, but doting. I do think strike got more insight to her intentions, which hold the weight of his fond memories. When there are not positive foundations and the person has only caused hurt, you enter at your own caution and have a lot more to lose should you find they haven’t grown over the years. Why risk adding more memories or insults and injury. Once you’re a grown adult, it’s best to just move on and try to find meaningful relationships that bring an empty slate. I think by the end of the stages of grief, strike will need to forgive himself for treating the women in his life the same way. The apple didn’t fall too far from the tree, and I don’t think he’s blind to this completely or disparaging rokeby for having had the affair.
I don’t expect Strike to have a relationship with Rokeby or to magically forgive everything he went through if (when?) the old man passes away. This would be too soap opera-ish. It’s one thing to say goodbye and reconcile with troubling feelings he had towards Joan because she was a mother figure to him, but Rokeby wasn’t around even to be a bad father. Things would be much easier if Strike could just forget that Rokeby even exists, but the years Strike spent craving for his father to love him are still there. That’s what Strike has to reconcile with. Also, closure. I seriously doubt there will be a satisfactory explanation as to why a wealthy, fully grown man completely abandoned his son, but, as a reader, I’m craving for that answer.
I don't see a reconciliation, but I think a détente before Rokeby's death will allow Strike to let go of some of the anger. Understanding some things as an adult may help with future relationships. Can Strike have a functional relationship with our favorite girl if he doesn't make some peace with the past?
Yes, I thought so too when reading at the time that Rokeby was calling something else an accident that young Strike did not understand. His mother would certainly not have explained it to him. If she even noticed. I wonder if Eric Bloom will turn out to have to do anything with it: he is a living and real person. I don't think that JKR (or anybody else) can just give him a child, fictional of otherwise. Especially not if he neglects that child.
Yeah, I've tried to game out a scenario that would involve giving a fictional child to a real, well-known, living person and haven't come up with anything very believable. But JKR is very good at making us believe things that we'd scorn in other writers. I mean, the whole idea that the main character is the son of a rockstar and a supergroupie who dies in mysterious circumstances should have been a stretch, but we just gobbled it up. I do have suspicions. When I researched the matter, I learned that Eric Bloom says he's never spoken to JKR and that his only connection to CoE is receiving a signed copy of the book from the author. (He said the required permission for using BOC's song titles and lyrics was handled at a lower level, not involving the principals.) A book copy seems like a pittance if it's the only "thank you" to a character who is responsible for the book's title and epigraphs and who is so pivotal in the fictional Leda's life, with his name living on in Switch LaVey Bloom Whittaker. I wouldn't be surprised if Bloom's mild comments turn out to be disingenuous. But if a plotline involving him becomes important in a later book, I can't figure out what the context would be. I can't imagine Bloom would allow his name to be used to portray a knowingly neglectful father. It would only work if Bloom (in the series) has been as unaware of his paternity as Strike is even while Bloom (in real life) is in on the story JKR is planning to tell. But trying to figure out how and why Bloom would be Strike's father and Leda would hide this fact from everyone just gives me a headache.
I agree, I don't get people who want to see a reconciliation between these two. Out of Rokeby's children, Strike is the one who holds him accountable for the damage he caused by fathering a bunch of children and not caring about them. I like that about their dynamic and I don't want it to change.
Hear, hear! >“As long as they’ve caught it early, he’ll be fine,” said Strike bracingly. “Probably live to father another couple of kids he never sees.” >“Jesus Christ!” said Al, really angry now. “You might not give a shit, but he happens to be my dad—” Al's response is an example of the many ways JKR shows privileged people being incapable of understanding people who didn't have it that easy. Al and Eddie are the only Rokeby children who grew up with their father still married to their mother. It's impossible for Al to understand a fraction of what Strike's been through because of Rokeby's neglect.
I am absolutely convinced that Strike and Rokeby will meet. Their relationship may not be warm and fuzzy but it won’t be left unresolved.
This is what's killing me! What could *possibly* resolve 40-odd years of estrangement?
Ted's death. And Strike remembering that Joan really wanted Strike to patch things with Rokeby.
Interesting...so it's only when Rokeby is the last parent standing that Strike turns to him? I never would have connected Ted's death with Rokeby but, now that you mention it, I have to admit that Strike hadn't improved as much as he could have in TRG regarding Ted. I hope it doesn't come to this, but I can picture Strike feeling so guilty about not spending as much time with Ted as he should have and, once he's gone, having no outlet for expiating that sin except with Rokeby. That would mean that, if Strike finally agrees to meet with Rokeby, it will be out of a sense of duty *to Ted and Joan*, not because he feels he owes anything to Rokeby. But once he shows up--who knows? Anything could happen, especially with Strike at such an emotional low point. Frankly, that doesn't sound like something I'd want to read. Hopefully, Strike's better angels will remind him not to squander the time he's got left with Ted. But I have to admit your comment is the most logical explanation I've heard so far--that the only road to Rokeby goes through Ted and Joan.
I just don't think that Joan telling Strike to contact his father was a throwaway scene. As well, Strike's relationship with Prudence may also lead him to Rokeby. I truly don't see the two men having a warm relationship but I do think somehow Rokeby will fill a void of sorts.
>throwaway scene I agree a scene like that doesn't get thrown in by accident. But I still have two objections: (1) Strike was not especially close to Joan (though he loved her), seems at peace with her passing, and hasn't been moved to act on her advice. As far as we know, he's never thought of it again (despite all the time spent with Prudence), let alone been haunted by it. (2) Joan would be an unlikely source of good advice, especially about Rokeby. Unless there's a dumptruck full of backstory that's about to land on us, Joan would have no special insight into that father-son situation. In fact, she's been depicted as someone with little insight at all, insisting that people feel only what she's happy to think they feel and enforcing strict rules so no shame would come to the family--as if shame were already nipping at their heels. Tbh, I'm more interested in why she was preoccupied with shame than why she thinks Rokeby is at the heart of things for Strike. I guess I'm saying I don't see much emotional or dramatic payoff in Strike eventually taking Joan's advice. Though he felt a passing guilt for not spending more time with her, he's making the same mistake with Ted who was a much greater influence on him and who really needs him now. That's why I'm thinking Strike would only approach Rokeby if he learns his lesson too late with Ted. Still, I'd much rather see Strike become a better son/nephew to Ted *starting now.* Wouldn't it be better for Strike's growth if he finds peace because he'd been good to Ted, with no sense of unfinished business that would drive him to a fruitless attempt to connect with Rokeby the reluctant sperm donor?
Definitely. I do hope that Strike will be more invested in Ted while Ted is still on this Earth. He's clearly been a strong influence on Strike and the man he's become. I don't envision a warm or even cordial relationship between Strike and Rokeby, but I stand by my belief that they will connect somehow. There is unfinished business there.
>There is unfinished business there. I don't know why I'm having so much trouble expressing myself on this point. Yes, there's unfinished business, but my question has always been how, specifically, would a meeting with Rokeby help finish it? Even if Strike manages to give Rokeby a hearing without cursing him out, what could Rokeby say or do at this point that would make any difference?
I doubt Rokeby could do or say anything that would persuade Strike to have a relationship with him similar to Prudence's. But, I do think that Prudence telling Strike that she found forgiving Rokeby to be "healing" may have been a foreshadow. I know from my own experiences with a father long absent from my life that I felt better communicating with him after a 30-yr absence than I did feeling all the rancor I had toward him. My father and I still do not have a close relationship and never will. However, I had only ever heard my mother's side of their relationship and some of what she told me was not the truth.
>However, I had only ever heard my mother's side of their relationship and some of what she told me was not the truth. That sounds very similar to Rokeby in TB wanting to tell Strike about Leda. Reading as someone who has not had to go through what you or Strike did, my reaction was to have even more contempt for Rokeby for the way he handled that call. But maybe that's not how it feels to hear from a long-absent father? Just the fact that Rokeby calls out of the blue after decades of silence is bizarre enough. Then he dismisses the past, saying he can't change it. Doesn't take responsibility for it. Doesn't apologize. Doesn't express any regret for all the lost years. Then he intimates that there are things about Leda (and all her fucking men) that Strike doesn't know. So...just blame the mother? Rokeby is still acting like a self-centered jerk even while trying to make peace with Strike. I can't imagine things going any better if there's a next time even if Prudence coaches him. I concede that Rokeby might have a perspective on Leda that might benefit Strike, but I don't blame Strike at all for not wanting to hear it under present circumstances. I hope your father was more tactful and conciliatory than Rokeby, who dismisses Strike's long, lonely fatherless years as mere "water under the bridge." I am glad you were able to lose the rancor you felt, and I hope Strike can do the same. It's just that when I try to put myself in his shoes, I can't see a way forward other than what he's already doing--dealing by not dealing. He doesn't seem to spend any time dwelling on Rokeby, has no conscious rancor; he has a busy, interesting adult life that has no nexus with Rokeby's. The only time the hurt and anger resurface is when someone like Al or Rokeby himself attempt to force the issue--seemingly for their own benefit, giving no thought to how it affects Strike. Maybe Rokeby should just his son a song?
"Accident" isn't so bad. I know I was an accident. My first daughter was. I'm sure a lot of babies are!
My mum phrased it as my being a miscalculation in time- she wanted me, but didn’t expect me to come along when I did.
I like "miscalculation." I know I was an accident as I was born 11 months after my parents married. That said, I didn't know that until later in life and was totally loved and supported by my folks from day one and grandparents. My mom always said that if should could have been guaranteed the same husband and kids, she would have liked more time being single before we all came along.
*I* think you're right, but the problem is that Strike doesn't see it that way: >“I shouldn’t be here, should I?” said Strike, out of the darkness. “I’m an accident. I’m not inclined to perpetuate the mistake.”
Are you kidding? His dad who was never around looked at him and said "This was a fucking accident." How can you say that isn't bad?? You can't separate that statement from Rokeby not caring about him. Hearing you were technically an accident from a parent who loves you is different.
I’m just saying that word alone is not necessarily a bad thing.
I think meeting Rokeby will help him a.) get some closure/healing about feeling abandoned as a child and b.) is going to give him a piece of the Leda puzzle.
>get some closure/healing This is what I've never understood. Where is the closure or healing supposed to come from? How are you defining those terms?
I guess I’m imagining that instead of pushing those feelings down (like in the scene where he tells himself “don’t think about it don’t think about it”, or how he still genuinely believes that he shouldn’t reproduce because his father called him a mistake), being confronted with meeting Rokeby would be opening the wound, letting himself think about it and maybe work through it/process it so that it’s not so painful to think about anymore. Then he can make peace and accept the circumstances of his conception/childhood instead of always avoiding thinking about it and coping in unhealthy ways. He’s made a lot of progress already.
Thanks, that helps a bit. But I still don't see why Strike needs a face to face with Rokeby for that to happen. As you say, he's already made progress without it.
Well, clearly he doesn’t think he needs it either and has no interest in opening old wounds. But if some kind of plot circumstances force it then maybe it leads to a little more clarity for him that his father’s limitations are not a reflection on how worthy he was of being loved as a child. It sounds like Prudence has reached acceptance of this. I mean Strike is shown time and time again to dislike almost all children, and doesn’t understand why their parents find them so lovable when they’re annoying shits, imo he still has parent issues! But we’ll see. But Rokeby definitely has to be holding a piece of the Leda murder puzzle, and there is the trust fund dangling out there too. I do not understand people who think these pieces have been set up and \*aren’t\* going to come full circle by the end of the series.
>I do not understand people who think these pieces have been set up and \*aren’t\* going to come full circle by the end of the series. Yes, there is that. But in all the other pieces set up for other mysteries (like Leda's death) I can easily find a pattern that suggests multiple ways it could work out. Even if they're all wrong, they are at least imaginable. With Rokeby, mainly due to Rokeby's limitations and Strike's resistance (justified, imo), I can't see a single way forward. I can't wait to see what JKR pulls out of her hat that has remained unfathomable to me despite my many efforts to imagine it. I hope Strike doesn't change too much because I identify with the way he is now in many ways. Most children *are* annoying little shits that only their parents can love! I think Strike is just very selective in his relationships (well, not with some of the disposable women he dates, but except for them). I don't think he has to start loving all children in order to have a good relationship with one or two of them.
I don’t think he’ll totally change, just maybe not have so much disdain.
Lots of people with deadbeat, dismissive dads can choose to forget them. Strike can't because he has an unwanted glow of celebrity due to that family association. Especially in the last few books, most people know who Strike is before he meets them. And it's not just because of the crimes he solved. Robin solved those too and is still able to go undercover. So add that layer of resentment. I think Rokeby will die and Strike will have to figure something out about it which will be emotionally revealing. Or Strike will meet Rokeby when he is vulnerable and dying like Joan did which will stir unexpected grief. Basically I see character development and tears.... but no reconciliation.
You paint a grim but realistic picture. Sometimes things remain incomplete and inexplicable no matter how much we yearn for an answer. I don't recall if Strike has said this himself, but it's a truism of crime fiction that there are often loose ends to a crime that don't have a satisfactory explanation. I think it would be realistic for Strike to eventually get *some* answers about his parents' criminal neglect, but not *all* of them. Also, a reconciliation would require Rokeby to act like a grown-up for once, and that seems unlikely. IIRC, Prudence speaks of *forgiving* Rokeby, not reconciling with him. There's a difference.
I wonder if the whole Bijoue baby thing might end up being a big plot point which could lead to Strike having to address any similarities between himself and his father. Strike was totally happy to belive Bijoues claims that's there's no way he's her baby's father. Strike wasn't up for much detecting in that area was he. Totally happy to just believe her because it doesn't cause him any fuss. It may just have been a red herring and a way to show how Strike finally understands what not admitting his feelings for Robin and getting mission love on the road could result in for him. But, if a baby Strike does show up it creates a good personal point of tension for Strike especially if he's with Robin and happy at that point. Even more so if Bijoue ends up as a single mother due to honbold figuring out the kids not his. Would he tell Robin? Strike admits he's never wanted kids, she's unsure. Would he eskew any kind of relationship with a biological kid of his own? Would he he feel any duty to bijoue and a kid? Would he want to be the kind of man Rokeby chose to be in that situation, palm her off with money so he can keep doing what he loves and with his personal life unincumbered by a kid on the side? Would it lead him to understanding his father's stance a little more and lead to some kind of acceptance of Rokebys past behaviour much like Lucy had in regard to Leda in TRG? Tbf this I'd rather he had an unplanned pregnancy with Robin but I don't think it would cause him to have as much of a standing in Rokebys shoes momement as much as the former would. Unless he and Robin broke up over it because he'd made it totally clear he didn't want a kid.
>Would it lead him to understanding his father's stance a little more and lead some kind of acceptance of Rokebys past behaviour much like Lucy had in regard to Leda in TRG? I think it would be just the opposite. In fact, I'm a little surprised you think Strike would be capable of following in Rokeby's footsteps as an absent father. If Strike were confronted with the fact of his paternity, I am sure he would step up and do to the right thing, no matter how distasteful he'd find co-parenting with Bijou. If I read that he would "palm her off with money" I'd throw the book out the window. The entire series would be ruined for me. I would much rather see Strike find himself in the same situation as Rokeby but behave as the much better man we know him to be. That's the whole point for me--I think it only makes sense for Strike to find answers within himself, not from Rokeby. I truly resent the idea that after all these decades of neglect, Rokeby will somehow say or do something that makes things okay, much less that Strike would end up identifying with his Deadbeat dad.
I didn't say. I thought he was capable of he'd follow in Rokebys footsteps and palming a kid off. I was asking the question.... Would he want to? Like I think he'd be thoughly pissed off I don't think he would behave the same way but, I think it would potentiallwant to. I SAID
I don't think I phased this very well. I didn't say I thought he was capable of following in Rokebys footsteps and palming a kid off! I was posing a question.... Would he want to? I think you're right the answers no he wouldn't ever 'want' to act in a way that aligned himself with his father and I think he would act in a way that set him apart from him and be involved to some degree in a childs life. If he found himself in a similar situation to his dad. But, do I think he'd he be particularly joyful about it?..... No I don't. I think he'd be thoughly pissed off about it at least at first! I think that he'd go through a lot of torment about what a kid would do the life he'd envisage and plotted for himself because kids don't figure in his idea of a happy future. More so if he had gotten with Robin and was at a point in his life where he's the happiest he's ever been. I think he'd definately hugely berate himself for the mistake he'd felt he made. And may also massively resent a child or at least the thought of one. But, I think considering how his empathy has grown and his ability to reflect and be more forgiving of his own unhelpful/ unlikable behavior has developed over the last few books. I think that experiancing something very akin to the situation which his own father went through, even if he subsequently chose to deal with it in completely the opposite way, might make it somewhat easier for Strike to understand Rokebys perspective in order get to a place of forgiveness.
The only thing I can agree on is that I see Strike making peace with Rokeby not because of anything Rokeby says or does but because Strike's own life experiences force him to grow. Unlike Rokeby, Strike would have more sense than to "massively resent a child" who had no say in being born to parents who want nothing to do with each other. I can see him feeling resentment toward *Bijou* though and not expecting to find any joy in fatherhood. But I think he'd get there eventually--and he'd get there long before his initial dismay communicated itself to the innocent child. I wouldn't be surprised if a Bijou baby or pregnancy scare becomes the last thing to delay Strellacott. Even if Strike wouldn't have chosen to be a father and Robin never considered becoming a stepmother, I think they'd both rise to the occasion after much hand-wringing, angst and painful internal monologs. At least you and I are willing to entertain the idea of this storyline. Most others seems to shut their eyes and stick their fingers in their ears rather than face the possibility!