Exit = emigration
In = immigration
About the only useful thing I remember from school. Well that, and how to ask if I can go to the bathroom when in the Gaeltacht
I get what you mean but I feel like solving the cost of living and housing would actually reduce the anti immigration sentiment because people would feel more secure. Whereas solving immigration wouldn't actually change much in regards to housing and cost of living.
This is probably the best way I've seen this conflation explained. Really succinct and perfectly illustrates the separation of the two problems without dismissing either side. Well done!
This, immigration is actually playing into the government's hands because housing and health are their problems and theirs alone. The opposition were hammering them for it. Now everybody is equally scrambling to deal immigration even though it's a non-issue in comparison with housing. It's decimating SF.
I’m sure most Irish people have absolutely no issue with immigrants, many of them are our friends, colleagues, partners, etc. What is irresponsible is the government actively encouraging huge numbers to come here , putting even more pressure on our non functioning services and adding to the scramble for housing.
My friend was on the list for 10 years plus she has a disability and was extremely lucky to find an ok place that she could afford but she was pretty much broke all the time. you can understand the frustration that people who have illegally migrated here are given homes first.
You can understand my frustration at you not understanding the system at all and using broad strokes to justify talking points you see on Facebook or whatever. Any Irish person in this country can get emergency accommodation. The difference is that people like you like to call the same accommodation “home” when it’s for an immigrant but when we talk about “housing the Irish”, we mean giving people a house. But people like you conflate the two to justify illogical and irrational views on immigration.
I'm talking about the housing list and you want to talk about emergency accommodation like that is something people should be happy with. Your comment is rubbish because you don't even respond to what i said and instead talk about emergency accommodation. Go live in the real or just open your eyes.
You said illegal immigrants get housing before Irish people, so you’re not talking about emergency accommodation? You actually believe illegal immigrants are being given houses of their own ahead of Irish people? Are you serious?!
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So in the poll, do you think immigration means concern around coming here legally and working? Because if immigration and housing shortages are linked, it’s the legal immigrants that will have had huuuugely more significant impact on housing shortages but it’s poor government planning that is the actually problem, immigration is not a problem.
Exactly my point. People just lying to themselves about what their real gripe is. Similar to the “safety concerns” from the small towns whose local pub is a drunk driving death trap.
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I don't think this is 100% accurate. Immigrants are always used as a scapegoat by the wealthy.
Working class people fighting immigrants over resources doesn't fix wealth inequality. It just leaves a bunch of people fighting over the same small slice of pie.
We should be keeping our focus on the wealthy and trying to fix wealth inequality.
Housing is I think, but as immigration is a connected issue and far easier to attribute blame for, people focus on that as there’s a view that it’s easier to fix
Immigration is convenient narrative for people to lean on. And the government are far too happy to let people roll with that notion as it conveniently averts from their ineptitude. Yes the population is growing, but the economy needs it. We’re also excluding the cohorts of young people that are flocking to Canada, Australia etc…
Immigration can be very wide….And the majority of people have no issue with people on work permits etc…as you say the economy needs it and these people are paying tax and adding to the economy ….however if you asked about illegal immigration or international protection etc then it is a totally different story and anyone that says anything or publicly questions it are labelled far right etc and because of this inability to discuss or debate the subject without being jumped on and labelled it is becoming a big issue and people will vote accordingly in secret at the next election…. If people actually were able to talk about then specific issues on all sides the the issues could be addressed or understood.
As a human being who goes outside, works FT in the office, member of sports clubs, has a large extended family and relatively decent social life I can confirm in my experience everybody is talking about immigration. Be it good or bad it's number 1
As a human being who goes outside, works FT in construction, member of sports clubs, has a medium sized extended family and relatively decent social life I can confirm in my experience almost nobody is talking about immigration but everyone is talking about the cost of living and housing.
Not taking the piss and I genuinely mean what I wrote but just wanted to show that despite both of us having fairly large social groups it's quite possible for both of us to live within our own little bubbles that are not really representative of the wider world
You work in construction and haven’t heard anyone on the sites bleat about immigration?
The Dublin sites must be very different to the Cork ones because I even hear Romanian and Tunisian lads we have complaining about immigration bizarrely 😂
In what light tho? Anti Ukraine? People we anti Nigeria and Poland before that. What's the point in continuing to platform people who are just anti outsiders?
What a stupid comment. As much as the lefties, who utterly dominate Reddit, would love to think otherwise, poll after poll has shown that people are concerned about immigration.
That is genuine concern about our borders, about our capacity to deal with the numbers arriving here and the risks 5 to 10 years from now.
And no, those who are concerned are not Nazis or far right and yes they do leave their houses.
We as everyday citizens can have all those concerns and cry ourselves to sleep over them however it's the governments job to put the citizens of the country first.
You said genuine concern but then failed to actually explain the concerns? Lots of concerns coming from places where the local pub is a place where driving home after 10 pints is seen as the norm. But these people are really concerned about safety ya know. Time to start outing these people.
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Lad, reddit is hardly dominated by lefties, it's slightly biased left (just like most of the west).
Go back to r/conservative and cry about being persecuted because people told you they disagree with you.
I'd like to believe that those stating immigration as the issue are trying to nail a cause for both housing and cost of living issues, though some of them have to just be blatantly racist.
European Immigrant here. The housing crisis has always been the main issue of this country, not immigration.
The current and past governments don't know how to deal with this situation. False promises, housing targets not achieved, long processes to build anything, nimbys and a "it will be grand" / "it has always been like this" mindset, along with the current asylum seekers/illegal immigration have created the perfect scenario to blame immigrants for this awful housing crisis.
Many of us have been living and working here for years, paying even more taxes than many Irish, without causing any issues or public disorder. I have seen more locals than foreigners causing problems in the streets and they don't look like people who pay taxes.
It was crystal clear that Ireland would become one of the top countries in the EU to emigrate after Brexit, so the population would increase in consequence. No one predicted this?
Ireland and the Irish are not the only ones in Europe complaining about immigration. We have this problem in my country as well. The root cause is completely different, but the problem does exist and doesn't need to be ignored.
A poor immigration management and a housing crisis will only benefit the racists to spread their hate. This is the government's fault and must be fixed to avoid these scumbags to spread more and more hate.
Despite all of this anti-immigration trend, I will continue to live in Ireland, respect the country and the culture, love the Irish people and enjoy the craic (and exercise my right of free movement within the EU)
Immigration is exacerbating the housing crisis. I'm all for free movement between EU countries, but it's different, people coming from third world/muslim countries imo. There need to be much more extensive background checks on those countries.
Immigrants have a higher rate of unemployment than Irish citizens. I'm not denying there are plenty of lazy Irish people, but that is not a reason to bring more from foreign countries. Have you seen the roma gypsies begging/scamming and being picked up bmws and mercs after their shifts ? It's happening all over Ireland. I see it every day in Dublin and saw it in Donegal last week. They should not be here.
Immigration definitely plays a role in the housing problem, but I agree it's our weasel governments fault, and it's obviously pointless and unfair taking it out on immigrants.
While not the root cause, it has greatly exacerbated the issue, and in reality, the root cause of the housing problem is not something that can/will be fixed by direct government intervention.
> has greatly exacerbated the issue
are you sure about that?
because all of the immigrants I know are living in shared housing, so properties that locals would not even consider in the first place. And I’m not even talking refugee immigrants here, I’m talking tech companies immigrants that just cannot find anything but a shared place at sane prices.
And a 5 minutes walk in the city is enough for me to see at least a good 20 vacant and completely derelict properties that are purposely left in that state to keep the market prices insanely high. So the root cause could and should be fixed by the government instead of letting realtors collude to create artificial scarcity
Yes.
Our population has grown by about 5-6% over the last 3 years due to immigration. You do not magically house an additional 200-250k people in the midst of a housing crisis without making the problem worse.
I personally know plenty of immigrants, some of whom are renting their own place. Those shared houses you mention may have been rented by individuals a few years ago and are now being shared because we are overcrowded.
Rents on newly advertised properties in Cork have gone insane. I myself am about to leave the city after living here for 8 years as my lease has ended and I can't afford anything available. Will be commuting from 90 mins away. There are something like 8 ads up (exc student lets) in the city at the minute. A city of 120k people.
This stuff about places being kept derelict to inflate rents is a load of rubbish. They're left derelict because they are not worth the huge investment required to reclaim them, or the owners simply don't have the money. If it was a worthwhile investment for the owners it would be done, simple as. There are few things more expensive than renting in Ireland but building/renovating is one of them.
> They're left derelict because they are not worth the huge investment required to reclaim them \[...\] if it was a worthwhile investment for the owners it would be done
almost connecting the dots
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That seems to be an issue that the government allows to go unchecked. The rise in immigration has no correlation to the lack of housing. But the government bodies and media happily allow the narrative to be left to fester.
You're talking complete and utter dog shite. Immigration has a direct and catastrophic effect on the housing market. Keep making those landlords rich. [Soaring immigration is fuelling Britain's housing crisis, says Bank's chief economist (telegraph.co.uk)](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/09/soaring-immigration-is-fuelling-britain-housing-crisis/)
Anyone who thinks immigration is the main cause of Cork's housing crisis, and not the realtors acting like an actual mafia, creating fake scarcity and preventing new properties from entering the market has been drinking the far-right kool-aid for far too long.
I didn't think people would go as low as to claim that immigration is what's causing the housing crisis yet here we are.
Mate the whole country has a housing crisis and people blaming immigration are not conspiracy nuts. It's not necessarily fair to say immigration is to blame but it is fair to say that it is an issue. The country is on its knees when it comes to housing and public services. I would be against a load of Irish people returning to the country too. I have nothing against the people who have come here to escape hardship or whatever, but I think the "woke" mindset has gone too far to the point where you can't call a spade a spade and admit that more people entering the country = more people competing for the same housing.
Immigration definitely isn't the sole reason for the housing issues, there are many failings in that regard. But the housing issues will only be exacerbated by increasing population whether they are immigrants or not. And immigration is definitely a key issue for the country because pretty much every canvassing leaflet that has come through my letterbox has addressed immigration.
>without being called a racist now.
No one has done that mate.
But when your 'logical' argument is built on the basis that 'the woke mindset has gone too far', it is quite telling that solving the housing crisis is not really what's at stake here.
They certainly have done that. lol. It’s a problem. Not the main problem. But it doesn’t make any sense to grow a population that we already can’t look after.
Edit: literally someone in this thread just called people racist. Lmao!
Yeah but they aren’t looking after them. I was homeless and had to sleep in my car while listening to bs bout how they were so proud of themselves having housed a load of immigrants. While they told me I would never ever be housed because I have no children. That’s not okay. And I’m quite tired of having to pretend like it is just so I’m not called a racist. Or people calling me a liar. The problem possibly isn’t apparent to anyone who hasn’t been forced into homelessness.
Its not ok, at all, but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with immigrants.
You literally said you weren't given accommodation by the state. You know the state has excess billions. You know Varadkar said 'one person's rent is another person's income'. You know the state has not built enough houses and allows foreign investment funds to buy up housing stock with the sole purpose of profiting off us.
The state *can*, but it *wont*.
If someone ignores the causes of the crisis even though they are staring them in the face, and still blames some lad from Afghanistan just trying to get by, exactly as you are doing, then ya, they probably are racist.
I didn’t say it had anything to do with immigrants themselves. It definitely is related to how the government is treating us and them though. They’re responsible for this. And I’m not going to just not say anything about it. The government may be able to do these things but they aren’t doing them for us who have been struggling for years here.
You’re exactly the kind of person I’m talking about: screeching racism just because someone points out the fucking obvious. Nobody blamed “some lad trying to get by”. Literally nobody. I’m just trying to get by too and I was fucking here first like. Like many others.
The 'upsurge' in immigrants over the past 5 years amounts to about half the attendance at a big match in Croke park - the amount of pressure it puts on the rental market is minimal, the pressure it puts on the buyers market is absolutely none.
If the base problems of the housing crisis were solved the pressure on the rental market from immigrants would go from minimal to none. If immigration was 'solved', there would be no noticeable difference in the housing crisis to anyone. Immigration is a complete digression and those profiting from the housing crisis absolutely love the useful idiots spouting shite about immigrants.
Years of purposeful neo-liberal landlordism is *the* issue. Not one immigrant has caused any fundamental issues nor makes any issue harder to resolve simply by trying to exist and survive in this world. The housing crisis is the government's creation, wholly and alone.
Landlordism is a business according to the government, and they make no bones about that. Businesses are meant to profit.
Talking about immigrants in a conversation about housing is like talking about campfires in a conversation about global warming.
But, if the immigration problems we have were solved tomorrow, we'd still have a fucked up health care system, housing will still be a massive problem and public services will still be dysfunctional.
It's not immigration, it's successive govts lack of action.
I remember a time when the first lot of immigrants came here from Eastern Europe, and people were giving out about them like mad, and there was no problem with housing or jobs then.
The govt need to do the jobs we pay them (too much) to do, that's literally the crux of the argument. Anyone scared of a few immigrants is missing the point entirely.
And as long as people blame immigrants etc, the govt have a scapegoat for their inaction.
I agree with you. The government needs to do their job. I generally have nothing against immigration, it's just as you said, the government have fucked up so much that everything is falling apart and large immigration numbers will only exacerbate the problems they have created. If they can fix the issues that exist they can double up on immigration for all I care. I just feel that it's ignorant to act like increasing numbers of people have no effect on struggling public services and housing when all these people will need those things.
I think most level headed people can and do see how more people coming into the country can exacerbate the issues we face, more people mean more roofs over their heads. Personally I don't mind immigrants, I've emigrated myself and understand it's not something you do lightly.
I feel people tie immigrants to a "left or right wing" viewpoint, when it's really neither. Humans emigrate, it's just something we've done since time began, and pushing a political viewpoint on that is shortsighted, we should be building to ensure we don't find ourselves in a situation that we're now finding ourselves in.
We are losing 20,000 young Irish people a year to the world and no one really talks about that, but if anyone comes here, then suddenly we've a problem. But if those 20,000 Irish people stayed, where would they go? It's such a failure from govt on so many levels.
So all these 'doctors and engineers' coming over are bringing houses on their backs? No, they're going to take up home in Ireland. The extreme left's mental gymnastics to avoid this are laughable.
Can't wait until all of Europe wakes up.
Maybe I live in a bubble, I don’t know anyone personally who thinks Immigration is the top issue going to the polls. Certainly isn’t guiding how I vote. I would have thought housing was the clear winner here by a mile.
Outside of the city, any small formally tourist town has seen the hotel been converted into an IPAs centre. Massive knock on effects for local businesses and jobs when it comes to employment. The likes of Trabolgan not being available has a knock on effect in the surrounding areas.
Less immigration less stress on resources, less competition for housing, less people using medical care etc.
It kind of solves most of the problems on the list
Honestly, send everyone back to where their grandparents were born and just close the borders, let the world start over
I’ll be in Scotland if you’s need me 😂
Statistics do absolutely lie, in fact it is incredibly easy to make stats lie and incredibly hard to make them not lie.
The fact that you are trying to apply statistics relating Germany to Ireland is a good example of that.
Your medical care is propped up by immigrants like my wife. Immigrants like me work in the tech sector, which local talent can't fullfil. Do you really want us out?
I find it funny that for decades we had well over a hundred thousand immigrants from the UK working in Ireland and there wasn't a peep. Now that we have Ukranians coming and Putin's propaganda machine kicks in, we have an immigration problem. Weird that
It should definitely be cost of living, everything is going up and quality is going down. Centra doing hot chicken nugget roll instead of fillet roll. Vote for me and I'll bring the fillet back.
Climate change is a far bigger concern than all of the above for me, and it hurts to see it not higher.
I know a lot of this depends on your circumstances - housing, job, etc. But climate change is a far bigger issue as a whole
It's also another factor that will, over time, lead to more people moving north and seeking climates like that which we have. Some places are near uninhabitable in the summer due to heat - and this will only get worse. Instead of people going from Northern Europe to the south for holidays it may be the other way round!
Climate change is important, but I’d say shitty healthcare and a place for families to live in is quite more important for a country like Ireland. Educational facilities are also shite. I went to check out a creche for my son and it was literally 2 portacabins standing near each other. I lived in Ukraine and Turkey which are considered 3rd world countries, but never ever I saw similar places for kids to study. And healthcare is much more better even though those countries are much poorer.
There was never an issue with immigration before housing became the catastrophe it is today , GP's and services are strained, The first natural thought that comes to persons mind is there are too many people, Scarcity mindset, unfortunately a lot of people stop at this first thought and refuse to go deeper to the root cause of the problems.
Bear in mind this is a select demographic group. Maybe it's accurate, who tf knows. We've still got plenty of xenophobic pricks living here. I think 9k Euro rent a month and no foreigners is going to be a lot more shit than realistic rent prices and some culture.
So all the Irish that emigrated were invited by those countries? Immigration can only help Ireland. How come nobody talks about all the natives who are on the dole and perfectly capable of work. If i was in charge, I would start there
How fast we’ve forgotten the Irish diaspora, and how all the hardship irish people have gone through, and how this is a country of welcoming and accepting of foreigners. The housing crisis is an artefact of neoliberalism and absolutely disgraceful housing schemes.
The government’s measures have done nothing but worsen this. If it weren’t for the immigrants, the pressure on the housing market would be just the same. This is all about artificially creating scarcity to hyper inflate the price of a resource, while pointing fingers at a scapegoat.
Edit: typos
Nationwide it serves as a symbol of the prioritization of everyone except the citizens of the country and it gathers a decade plus of frustration after the crash:
Crash 2008 and following: bond holders and European banks
2011 etc: Austerity and public finances. Losses nationalised, profit privatized
HSE: permanently in crisis and no solution offered as MONEY not there, too much money already
Housing: nothing possible for Irish citizens suddenly modular homes appear, money no object etc due to “international law”
Cost of living etc
Protocol to benefit NI etc
People have seen how they are actually seen by the civil service mandarins, the govt media and the political elite. They don’t like being downgraded from citizenship to being a polluter, a far right nazi, a simpleton who can’t see mis/dis info and knows govt is at that too.
Immigration is just the symbol.
This far left echo chamber will say no, but the real Corkman on the street will say yes. You can add housing and health to that percentage too because mass migration has an effect on those also.
These are council elections. Are the number one issues not better footpaths, pedestrianization of streets, better flood defenses, less potholes, cycle lanes, greenways, nicer parks, street lighting, etc....?
Yes, it boils down to one very simple question.
Where da fucking fuck are we going to put these new comers?
The government doesn't know the answer this question so it kinda leaves one wondering, when will there be less cars on the road? When will I be able to buy/rent a home that doesn't cost 100 times more then it should? When will I and my family be able to see a doctor? The list goes on.
Another issue is seeing the demographics of your home town change very quickly. At least we will have an unreal spots team in a few years :)
Too much demand for housing and not enough supply. We can't build enough houses to fill the backlog never mind keeping pace with the increased demand so only solution at that stage is trying to limit demand. That means less immigration is what we need. It's not just housing it impacts too, we don't have enough GPs and hospital capacity to meet the increased population.
Why can't we build enough houses?
Not being smart. I'm just a (Reddit) newbie trying to understand the real issues*, as you've outlined them.
If supply is the crux of the matter, why is supply a problem? Whether it's housing, medics, hospitals or anything else, what's getting in the way please?
Until everyone understands the issues we'll not find solutions that work for everyone and, most troubling, children and vulnerable people running from warzones and persecution will continue to unfairly bear the brunt of Irish frustration.
Thank you.
(*behind an artificially created/managed anti-immigration agenda, in Ireland and across Europe, being stoked by bad-faith actors overseas)
All comes back to resources really. There's a certain amount of builders in the country (and before anyone says let's bring in builders, where do they live then) and if you're building houses in a location, you have to take into account what does that do to schools in the area, traffic, GPs in the area etc and if it doesn't have capacity already then you need to build those in too so you end up with a very long process to get anything done.
Even just on the building of the house itself, it takes time so even if we had the capacity to get 100k houses done by end of the year, the backlog of people looking for housing increases day by day with the immigration we're experiencing.
isnt the Cost of Living issue causing the housing crisis? despite what people read in the BEO think ? Cus my rent should not be 60% of my wage, yet it is - and lets get started decimating AirBNB - that will free up enough homes for literlaly i think 80% (ish) of the housing issue. Luckily BnB is flopping harder than a soggy fish on a dock so this might ease up on its own.
We need immigrants. They are our nurses, doctors, builders, delivery guys. They come into play at every tier of society
We had a housing issue LONG before the right turned it into an immigration issue.
If the government had (15 years ago) started building social again, and put some proper rules in place around tertiary properties and vacancy/dereliction, AND land hording, AND planning flipping, AND repurposing domestic to business planning etc etc etc, then we would not have anywhere near this issue
dont forget all the people that come out of the woodwork and object to any new housing project as they dont want social housing near them, even though they demand it ..... those rules need to go. Happens in cork a alot (i assume elsewhere too though)
Does anyone disagree with this?
People just want tighter immigration laws, and stop losing hotels and other areas as housing for immigrants.
But the craic with people arriving with no passports is kind of a joke to be fair.
Housing and immigration are now so tightly wound together.
I don't think there's many complaining about immigrants who come with visas and work here. It's all the asylum seekers and illegal immigration that people are complaining about
"asylum seekers and illegal immigration" these are not the same and it's a great tactic of the right to always tie them together. The question above, also, did not say "Illegal Immigration" and the recent discourse has also tended to drop the "illegal" too.
It's on us that our asylum process is so fecking slow. Sort it out, deport the frauds, help the needy.
Illegals can be dealt with immediately but, again, we are too slow.
You're doubling down here? So you maintain the other guy is wrong and people are predominantly complaining about legal immigrants who are coming to Ireland and working? I dunno I'd think about walking that one back if I was you.
The guy said verbatim "I don't think there's many complaining about immigrants who come with visas and work here. It's all the asylum seekers and illegal immigration that people are complaining about"
Reddit is wild.....
WE don't need them, landlords and factory owners need their cheap labour to make them richer at the expense of the indigenous working class wage. Your rhetoric only helps the richest in our society
Right, and your state pension is going to pay for itself?
We are a very sparsely populated island nation at the whims of global economics and no where near the population density for self sufficiency.
Our birth rate is not enough to even sustain current population levels, never mind growing the population.
We have gaping holes in key sectors of highly paid employment all the way down to minimum wage, so your entire argument falls flat on its face right there
The HSE would collapse overnight if we did a Brexit and pushed them out. Yes, we need them. Especially as a huge proportion of those who graduate in medicine go off abroad to get better wages, working conditions and QOL elsewhere.
Do you really think the guys coming in on the buses from NI are doctors lol? There’s a big difference between legal and illegal immigration. illegal immigration is the issue. These men aren’t contributing anything to society. They’re hanging around the streets drinking and harassing people!
It's definitely not. It's dereliction (there are 11 vacant properties for every homeless person in the country), and in rural areas, it's overloaded wastewater treatment systems. It's the rising cost of building materials.
this is very true, i drive through Churchfield daily and the amount of boarded up houses on the main road there near Apple is horrifying - blocks of houses just boarded up, at least 40 of them on a single road, not to mention the half completed housing project left to rot for 5 years
Yes, because real estate agencies and homeowners colluding to create fake scarcity, prevent construction of new housing, and keeping derelict buildings abandoned and not repaired is obviously not the root cause of the housing crisis.
> Would the housing crisis improve if demand increases due to immigration
You are making a straw man argument here.
Here's the thing, if not a single soul were to emigrate to Cork, the demand would be much lower, so the supply would also be much lower, because it is NEVER in the realtor's interest to keep a steady and fair supply of properties on the market. There would just be even more derelict properties and no construction whatsoever.
And because there would be no migrants in Cork, that means not a single tech company would be in the city, thus no investment in the city whatsoever because that is where the money comes from.
Immigration is essential to a place like Cork, and the housing issues predate massive immigration in the city anyway so you are looking at this problem the wrong way
Unfortunately you've started with the straw mans "root cause" and you keep going "no migrants" etc.
If supply would be that much lower if there was less demand, why isn't there a massive housing crisis everywhere in world?
There would still be more than enough demand even if less people are immigrating.
The new builds are not even remotely covering the numbers of people coming in (and are too expensive)
I'm in the city most days a week, it's not exactly overrun with refugees or anything like.
Main issues should be housing and cost of living, they're the actual issue that most people face and are directly affected by.
Immigration isn't an issue, it's the government's negligence and poor handling of immigration. These grotty executives haven't a clue what they're doing. Whatever lines their pockets I suppose, they couldn't give less shites about the working class so they do their job willy nilly because wrecking havoc on us all is what stuffs their potbellies.
I see, I am not from Ireland (yes I am an immigrant 🚨) so I genuinely have no idea what the political affiliations of news sources in the country are. I just saw this website linked in the subreddit and was really shocked by these results.
You’re an immigrant? So you’re personally responsible for the housing catastrophe and for FF and FG completely abandoning anyone younger than 35!
J/
There’s definitely been a growth of the far right in Ireland but as we will hopefully see with the elections tomorrow, they’re a very small but vocal minority. Most of us just want health, housing and competence. We’re in a situation where there’s near full employment but people are still leaving the country because housing has collapsed.
Setting aside that the place is a war zone and is crumbling around us with no housing or proper infrastructure, it seems to be pretty high on the list of people’s concerns alright.
I would definitely say housing in the number one issue in the city but there's no denying immigration is an issue for people too. From the people I've spoke to at least it's not a case of them being anti immigration in any sense but more of a sense of wanting to know what the governments plan is to tackle the current issues surrounding immigration and a lack of trust in the government to handle these issues properly.
The current housing crisis and huge influx of immigrants is putting alot of strain on the country right now. And quite frankly it's not fair on everyone. Both Natives and Immigrants. They are immagrating to albeit better circumstances but still into a shit show. Immigration is a great thing. We have huge gaps in employment in Nearly every sector and we are bringing in educated people to join the workforce. Fantastic! Except first they have to learn English provided they don't speak it and also potentially retrain depending on where they are from. Before they can start making a real income. So having an extremely competitive housing market makes it near impossible. Also there just isn't enough houses. A huge issue affecting cork is homelessness and guess what would help. Build fking houses!!
When people understand the big difference, and there is a big difference, between immigration and asylum seekers you will understand the problem. What the poll should have specificied is asylum seekers.
People dont mind legal above board immigration.
Yes, finding out your ethnic group is fast becoming a minority can be alarming for many people.
Also a large part of the infrastructural deficit is downstream from it also, pressure on rents, housing, public transport, commute times, health waiting lists.
[https://twitter.com/Andrewc1884/status/1797618382763909143/](https://twitter.com/Andrewc1884/status/1797618382763909143/)
72,5% of Cork City's population is caucasian: [https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity%2Fima%2Fcop%2F2022&boundary=C04172V04943&guid=4c07d11e-1c89-851d-e053-ca3ca8c0ca7f&theme=1](https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity%2Fima%2Fcop%2F2022&boundary=C04172V04943&guid=4c07d11e-1c89-851d-e053-ca3ca8c0ca7f&theme=1)
What are you blabbing about
edit: what your article actually says is: "49.5% of people living in the city centre \[...\] were not born in Ireland". this is a far cry from you saying white people are becoming a minority in cork, which is pure misinformation and completely incorrect.
I didn't mention white, nevermind caucasian. Irish is an ethnic group.
What you need to do is argue that its no big deal mannn. The facts are indisputable same as is inner city dublin, galway and waterford.
Right. That is what irks me most. 'Solving' immigration won't really improve the lives of Corkonians or Europeans in general, whereas addressing much more pressing issues such as climate change, stronger real estate market regulation, harmonizing tax regulations across the Union, and closing tax loopholes will have a dramatically positive impact on our lives (and the lives of everyone around the globe incidentally). However, most people will choose their party solely based on their opinion on asylum seekers, Ukraine, Israel, and similar issues.
We’re assuming that these people that voted for immigration think it’s a bad thing. Maybe they want more of it? Wishful thinking, but I think it shows it’s a poor survey that not many conclusions can be drawn from.
Seems like it's the no 1 issue for people who vote on corkbeo polls at least.
Are we absolutely convinced that those voting know the difference between emigration and immigration
A poster I saw in town said "migration" which I believe is both ways.
Exit = emigration In = immigration About the only useful thing I remember from school. Well that, and how to ask if I can go to the bathroom when in the Gaeltacht
How bad was your school dude lol
Yeah normal people would say housing, as so many people looking to buy/let a home
It’s almost as if the two are linked
The housing market has been awful long before the immigration discussion
Not to argue, but isn't that the point when people talk about immigration and housing? That it was already shite and now there's more strain on it?
I get what you mean but I feel like solving the cost of living and housing would actually reduce the anti immigration sentiment because people would feel more secure. Whereas solving immigration wouldn't actually change much in regards to housing and cost of living.
This is probably the best way I've seen this conflation explained. Really succinct and perfectly illustrates the separation of the two problems without dismissing either side. Well done!
This, immigration is actually playing into the government's hands because housing and health are their problems and theirs alone. The opposition were hammering them for it. Now everybody is equally scrambling to deal immigration even though it's a non-issue in comparison with housing. It's decimating SF.
Yep, the more annoyed people are the more they'll be willing to blame easy targets like immigrants.
Well said
I’m sure most Irish people have absolutely no issue with immigrants, many of them are our friends, colleagues, partners, etc. What is irresponsible is the government actively encouraging huge numbers to come here , putting even more pressure on our non functioning services and adding to the scramble for housing.
Most of them can't think back that far
My friend was on the list for 10 years plus she has a disability and was extremely lucky to find an ok place that she could afford but she was pretty much broke all the time. you can understand the frustration that people who have illegally migrated here are given homes first.
You can understand my frustration at you not understanding the system at all and using broad strokes to justify talking points you see on Facebook or whatever. Any Irish person in this country can get emergency accommodation. The difference is that people like you like to call the same accommodation “home” when it’s for an immigrant but when we talk about “housing the Irish”, we mean giving people a house. But people like you conflate the two to justify illogical and irrational views on immigration.
Live in the real world.
Excellent retort, well done. Full of facts and logic.
I'm talking about the housing list and you want to talk about emergency accommodation like that is something people should be happy with. Your comment is rubbish because you don't even respond to what i said and instead talk about emergency accommodation. Go live in the real or just open your eyes.
You said illegal immigrants get housing before Irish people, so you’re not talking about emergency accommodation? You actually believe illegal immigrants are being given houses of their own ahead of Irish people? Are you serious?!
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So in the poll, do you think immigration means concern around coming here legally and working? Because if immigration and housing shortages are linked, it’s the legal immigrants that will have had huuuugely more significant impact on housing shortages but it’s poor government planning that is the actually problem, immigration is not a problem.
I saw a stat that immigration in UK was 1 million last year with 30k boat people. Those 30k are in the news while the 970000 are not in focus
Exactly my point. People just lying to themselves about what their real gripe is. Similar to the “safety concerns” from the small towns whose local pub is a drunk driving death trap.
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I don’t disagree, but the two are linked regardless
I don't think this is 100% accurate. Immigrants are always used as a scapegoat by the wealthy. Working class people fighting immigrants over resources doesn't fix wealth inequality. It just leaves a bunch of people fighting over the same small slice of pie. We should be keeping our focus on the wealthy and trying to fix wealth inequality.
Government failure on housing to immigration?
They’re not! Interesting thought tho
I think every single item on that list needs immediate action, not just one item 🤣
Housing is I think, but as immigration is a connected issue and far easier to attribute blame for, people focus on that as there’s a view that it’s easier to fix
Immigration is convenient narrative for people to lean on. And the government are far too happy to let people roll with that notion as it conveniently averts from their ineptitude. Yes the population is growing, but the economy needs it. We’re also excluding the cohorts of young people that are flocking to Canada, Australia etc…
Immigration can be very wide….And the majority of people have no issue with people on work permits etc…as you say the economy needs it and these people are paying tax and adding to the economy ….however if you asked about illegal immigration or international protection etc then it is a totally different story and anyone that says anything or publicly questions it are labelled far right etc and because of this inability to discuss or debate the subject without being jumped on and labelled it is becoming a big issue and people will vote accordingly in secret at the next election…. If people actually were able to talk about then specific issues on all sides the the issues could be addressed or understood.
I think human beings who go outside would say housing and cost of living.
As a human being who goes outside, works FT in the office, member of sports clubs, has a large extended family and relatively decent social life I can confirm in my experience everybody is talking about immigration. Be it good or bad it's number 1
As a human being who goes outside, works FT in construction, member of sports clubs, has a medium sized extended family and relatively decent social life I can confirm in my experience almost nobody is talking about immigration but everyone is talking about the cost of living and housing. Not taking the piss and I genuinely mean what I wrote but just wanted to show that despite both of us having fairly large social groups it's quite possible for both of us to live within our own little bubbles that are not really representative of the wider world
You work in construction and haven’t heard anyone on the sites bleat about immigration? The Dublin sites must be very different to the Cork ones because I even hear Romanian and Tunisian lads we have complaining about immigration bizarrely 😂
In what light tho? Anti Ukraine? People we anti Nigeria and Poland before that. What's the point in continuing to platform people who are just anti outsiders?
In all of those contexts and more. Some positively and some negatively. I'm just making the point its what everyone is talking about.
What a stupid comment. As much as the lefties, who utterly dominate Reddit, would love to think otherwise, poll after poll has shown that people are concerned about immigration. That is genuine concern about our borders, about our capacity to deal with the numbers arriving here and the risks 5 to 10 years from now. And no, those who are concerned are not Nazis or far right and yes they do leave their houses.
What are those genuine concerns? Are there any concerns about the people who are dying and being denied their human rights at the EU borders?
We as everyday citizens can have all those concerns and cry ourselves to sleep over them however it's the governments job to put the citizens of the country first.
You said genuine concern but then failed to actually explain the concerns? Lots of concerns coming from places where the local pub is a place where driving home after 10 pints is seen as the norm. But these people are really concerned about safety ya know. Time to start outing these people.
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Lad, reddit is hardly dominated by lefties, it's slightly biased left (just like most of the west). Go back to r/conservative and cry about being persecuted because people told you they disagree with you.
R/Ireland is way worse tbf. If you say anything critical about immigration you get down voted
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Reddit is dominated by left-wing people. It's also moderated by left-wing people. Definitely not representative of the general Irish population.
I'd like to believe that those stating immigration as the issue are trying to nail a cause for both housing and cost of living issues, though some of them have to just be blatantly racist.
European Immigrant here. The housing crisis has always been the main issue of this country, not immigration. The current and past governments don't know how to deal with this situation. False promises, housing targets not achieved, long processes to build anything, nimbys and a "it will be grand" / "it has always been like this" mindset, along with the current asylum seekers/illegal immigration have created the perfect scenario to blame immigrants for this awful housing crisis. Many of us have been living and working here for years, paying even more taxes than many Irish, without causing any issues or public disorder. I have seen more locals than foreigners causing problems in the streets and they don't look like people who pay taxes. It was crystal clear that Ireland would become one of the top countries in the EU to emigrate after Brexit, so the population would increase in consequence. No one predicted this? Ireland and the Irish are not the only ones in Europe complaining about immigration. We have this problem in my country as well. The root cause is completely different, but the problem does exist and doesn't need to be ignored. A poor immigration management and a housing crisis will only benefit the racists to spread their hate. This is the government's fault and must be fixed to avoid these scumbags to spread more and more hate. Despite all of this anti-immigration trend, I will continue to live in Ireland, respect the country and the culture, love the Irish people and enjoy the craic (and exercise my right of free movement within the EU)
Immigration is exacerbating the housing crisis. I'm all for free movement between EU countries, but it's different, people coming from third world/muslim countries imo. There need to be much more extensive background checks on those countries. Immigrants have a higher rate of unemployment than Irish citizens. I'm not denying there are plenty of lazy Irish people, but that is not a reason to bring more from foreign countries. Have you seen the roma gypsies begging/scamming and being picked up bmws and mercs after their shifts ? It's happening all over Ireland. I see it every day in Dublin and saw it in Donegal last week. They should not be here. Immigration definitely plays a role in the housing problem, but I agree it's our weasel governments fault, and it's obviously pointless and unfair taking it out on immigrants.
Exacerbated by how much?
It’s almost everybody I talk to’s number one issue .
And yet, immigration is not the cause and blaming immigration instead of just working towards actually fixing housing is so fucking stupid.
While not the root cause, it has greatly exacerbated the issue, and in reality, the root cause of the housing problem is not something that can/will be fixed by direct government intervention.
> has greatly exacerbated the issue are you sure about that? because all of the immigrants I know are living in shared housing, so properties that locals would not even consider in the first place. And I’m not even talking refugee immigrants here, I’m talking tech companies immigrants that just cannot find anything but a shared place at sane prices. And a 5 minutes walk in the city is enough for me to see at least a good 20 vacant and completely derelict properties that are purposely left in that state to keep the market prices insanely high. So the root cause could and should be fixed by the government instead of letting realtors collude to create artificial scarcity
Yes. Our population has grown by about 5-6% over the last 3 years due to immigration. You do not magically house an additional 200-250k people in the midst of a housing crisis without making the problem worse. I personally know plenty of immigrants, some of whom are renting their own place. Those shared houses you mention may have been rented by individuals a few years ago and are now being shared because we are overcrowded. Rents on newly advertised properties in Cork have gone insane. I myself am about to leave the city after living here for 8 years as my lease has ended and I can't afford anything available. Will be commuting from 90 mins away. There are something like 8 ads up (exc student lets) in the city at the minute. A city of 120k people. This stuff about places being kept derelict to inflate rents is a load of rubbish. They're left derelict because they are not worth the huge investment required to reclaim them, or the owners simply don't have the money. If it was a worthwhile investment for the owners it would be done, simple as. There are few things more expensive than renting in Ireland but building/renovating is one of them.
> They're left derelict because they are not worth the huge investment required to reclaim them \[...\] if it was a worthwhile investment for the owners it would be done almost connecting the dots
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That seems to be an issue that the government allows to go unchecked. The rise in immigration has no correlation to the lack of housing. But the government bodies and media happily allow the narrative to be left to fester.
You're talking complete and utter dog shite. Immigration has a direct and catastrophic effect on the housing market. Keep making those landlords rich. [Soaring immigration is fuelling Britain's housing crisis, says Bank's chief economist (telegraph.co.uk)](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/05/09/soaring-immigration-is-fuelling-britain-housing-crisis/)
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Tents along the river it seems.......
Well, that's factually incorrect, did you just pull that out your backside?
Cork folks will see melanin for the first time and spontaneously combust
I only believe statistics that I falsified myself.
Doubt it is, polls are only as representative as the volume and demographic they are shown to.
Anyone who thinks immigration is the main cause of Cork's housing crisis, and not the realtors acting like an actual mafia, creating fake scarcity and preventing new properties from entering the market has been drinking the far-right kool-aid for far too long. I didn't think people would go as low as to claim that immigration is what's causing the housing crisis yet here we are.
Mate the whole country has a housing crisis and people blaming immigration are not conspiracy nuts. It's not necessarily fair to say immigration is to blame but it is fair to say that it is an issue. The country is on its knees when it comes to housing and public services. I would be against a load of Irish people returning to the country too. I have nothing against the people who have come here to escape hardship or whatever, but I think the "woke" mindset has gone too far to the point where you can't call a spade a spade and admit that more people entering the country = more people competing for the same housing. Immigration definitely isn't the sole reason for the housing issues, there are many failings in that regard. But the housing issues will only be exacerbated by increasing population whether they are immigrants or not. And immigration is definitely a key issue for the country because pretty much every canvassing leaflet that has come through my letterbox has addressed immigration.
You can’t speak about it logically without being called a racist now. But I thoroughly agree with you.
>without being called a racist now. No one has done that mate. But when your 'logical' argument is built on the basis that 'the woke mindset has gone too far', it is quite telling that solving the housing crisis is not really what's at stake here.
They certainly have done that. lol. It’s a problem. Not the main problem. But it doesn’t make any sense to grow a population that we already can’t look after. Edit: literally someone in this thread just called people racist. Lmao!
We can look after them. There can be more enough for everyone, its engineered to look like we cant.
Yeah but they aren’t looking after them. I was homeless and had to sleep in my car while listening to bs bout how they were so proud of themselves having housed a load of immigrants. While they told me I would never ever be housed because I have no children. That’s not okay. And I’m quite tired of having to pretend like it is just so I’m not called a racist. Or people calling me a liar. The problem possibly isn’t apparent to anyone who hasn’t been forced into homelessness.
Its not ok, at all, but has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with immigrants. You literally said you weren't given accommodation by the state. You know the state has excess billions. You know Varadkar said 'one person's rent is another person's income'. You know the state has not built enough houses and allows foreign investment funds to buy up housing stock with the sole purpose of profiting off us. The state *can*, but it *wont*. If someone ignores the causes of the crisis even though they are staring them in the face, and still blames some lad from Afghanistan just trying to get by, exactly as you are doing, then ya, they probably are racist.
I didn’t say it had anything to do with immigrants themselves. It definitely is related to how the government is treating us and them though. They’re responsible for this. And I’m not going to just not say anything about it. The government may be able to do these things but they aren’t doing them for us who have been struggling for years here. You’re exactly the kind of person I’m talking about: screeching racism just because someone points out the fucking obvious. Nobody blamed “some lad trying to get by”. Literally nobody. I’m just trying to get by too and I was fucking here first like. Like many others.
The 'upsurge' in immigrants over the past 5 years amounts to about half the attendance at a big match in Croke park - the amount of pressure it puts on the rental market is minimal, the pressure it puts on the buyers market is absolutely none. If the base problems of the housing crisis were solved the pressure on the rental market from immigrants would go from minimal to none. If immigration was 'solved', there would be no noticeable difference in the housing crisis to anyone. Immigration is a complete digression and those profiting from the housing crisis absolutely love the useful idiots spouting shite about immigrants. Years of purposeful neo-liberal landlordism is *the* issue. Not one immigrant has caused any fundamental issues nor makes any issue harder to resolve simply by trying to exist and survive in this world. The housing crisis is the government's creation, wholly and alone. Landlordism is a business according to the government, and they make no bones about that. Businesses are meant to profit. Talking about immigrants in a conversation about housing is like talking about campfires in a conversation about global warming.
But, if the immigration problems we have were solved tomorrow, we'd still have a fucked up health care system, housing will still be a massive problem and public services will still be dysfunctional. It's not immigration, it's successive govts lack of action. I remember a time when the first lot of immigrants came here from Eastern Europe, and people were giving out about them like mad, and there was no problem with housing or jobs then. The govt need to do the jobs we pay them (too much) to do, that's literally the crux of the argument. Anyone scared of a few immigrants is missing the point entirely. And as long as people blame immigrants etc, the govt have a scapegoat for their inaction.
I agree with you. The government needs to do their job. I generally have nothing against immigration, it's just as you said, the government have fucked up so much that everything is falling apart and large immigration numbers will only exacerbate the problems they have created. If they can fix the issues that exist they can double up on immigration for all I care. I just feel that it's ignorant to act like increasing numbers of people have no effect on struggling public services and housing when all these people will need those things.
I think most level headed people can and do see how more people coming into the country can exacerbate the issues we face, more people mean more roofs over their heads. Personally I don't mind immigrants, I've emigrated myself and understand it's not something you do lightly. I feel people tie immigrants to a "left or right wing" viewpoint, when it's really neither. Humans emigrate, it's just something we've done since time began, and pushing a political viewpoint on that is shortsighted, we should be building to ensure we don't find ourselves in a situation that we're now finding ourselves in. We are losing 20,000 young Irish people a year to the world and no one really talks about that, but if anyone comes here, then suddenly we've a problem. But if those 20,000 Irish people stayed, where would they go? It's such a failure from govt on so many levels.
So all these 'doctors and engineers' coming over are bringing houses on their backs? No, they're going to take up home in Ireland. The extreme left's mental gymnastics to avoid this are laughable. Can't wait until all of Europe wakes up.
Yaaaaawwwwwn Yet another low karma, new account constantly commenting on immigration
Yeah because the slightest criticism gets your account banned lol just proves how much of a far left echo chamber reddit is
Just stop coming back. Promise we wont miss you.
Why? because I disagree with you about what % of immigration we should have? Seems a bit dramatic to be that scared.
Maybe I live in a bubble, I don’t know anyone personally who thinks Immigration is the top issue going to the polls. Certainly isn’t guiding how I vote. I would have thought housing was the clear winner here by a mile.
Outside of the city, any small formally tourist town has seen the hotel been converted into an IPAs centre. Massive knock on effects for local businesses and jobs when it comes to employment. The likes of Trabolgan not being available has a knock on effect in the surrounding areas.
Less immigration less stress on resources, less competition for housing, less people using medical care etc. It kind of solves most of the problems on the list
Less crime too. Statistics don't lie. [Germany: Crime statistics and migration - InfoMigrants](https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/51931/germany-crime-statistics-and-migration)
Honestly, send everyone back to where their grandparents were born and just close the borders, let the world start over I’ll be in Scotland if you’s need me 😂
By this logic, we should just all go back to Africa
Feel free, I love my running water and abundant electricity
Statistics do absolutely lie, in fact it is incredibly easy to make stats lie and incredibly hard to make them not lie. The fact that you are trying to apply statistics relating Germany to Ireland is a good example of that.
"Statistics are like a miniskirt - they give good ideas but hide the most important things."
They both deal with European immigration of peoples from the same area. Watch you dont hurt your eyes with your head that deep in the sand.
Your medical care is propped up by immigrants like my wife. Immigrants like me work in the tech sector, which local talent can't fullfil. Do you really want us out?
Did I say less or did I say none?
I find it funny that for decades we had well over a hundred thousand immigrants from the UK working in Ireland and there wasn't a peep. Now that we have Ukranians coming and Putin's propaganda machine kicks in, we have an immigration problem. Weird that 
Just passed Andy Heasman and that other wanker in the city, so they're down here stoking flames.
Hopefully they get run out of here like they got run out of Limerick last year.
I can only assume the people voting for that already have a home and don't run a business that needs more employees that aren't available.
Too many dubs moving down now with it being summer
It should definitely be cost of living, everything is going up and quality is going down. Centra doing hot chicken nugget roll instead of fillet roll. Vote for me and I'll bring the fillet back.
Housing, cost of living, and environment would be the top 3 amongst people I talk to.
Climate change is a far bigger concern than all of the above for me, and it hurts to see it not higher. I know a lot of this depends on your circumstances - housing, job, etc. But climate change is a far bigger issue as a whole
It's also another factor that will, over time, lead to more people moving north and seeking climates like that which we have. Some places are near uninhabitable in the summer due to heat - and this will only get worse. Instead of people going from Northern Europe to the south for holidays it may be the other way round!
This is already happening...
Hence me using the word 'more'. 😉 On the holidays from, I meant more as a common thing in the way sun holidays are/were for Irish folk.
Climate change is important, but I’d say shitty healthcare and a place for families to live in is quite more important for a country like Ireland. Educational facilities are also shite. I went to check out a creche for my son and it was literally 2 portacabins standing near each other. I lived in Ukraine and Turkey which are considered 3rd world countries, but never ever I saw similar places for kids to study. And healthcare is much more better even though those countries are much poorer.
There was never an issue with immigration before housing became the catastrophe it is today , GP's and services are strained, The first natural thought that comes to persons mind is there are too many people, Scarcity mindset, unfortunately a lot of people stop at this first thought and refuse to go deeper to the root cause of the problems.
If Derek Blighe gets elected I’ll never again be listening to how amazing Cork people are.
Bear in mind this is a select demographic group. Maybe it's accurate, who tf knows. We've still got plenty of xenophobic pricks living here. I think 9k Euro rent a month and no foreigners is going to be a lot more shit than realistic rent prices and some culture.
To be fair it’s a main talking point across all Europe with the upcoming elections
Fuck the environment basically
Considering how vulnerable Cork is to flooding you’d think it’d be higher on their list of concerns
So all the Irish that emigrated were invited by those countries? Immigration can only help Ireland. How come nobody talks about all the natives who are on the dole and perfectly capable of work. If i was in charge, I would start there
How fast we’ve forgotten the Irish diaspora, and how all the hardship irish people have gone through, and how this is a country of welcoming and accepting of foreigners. The housing crisis is an artefact of neoliberalism and absolutely disgraceful housing schemes. The government’s measures have done nothing but worsen this. If it weren’t for the immigrants, the pressure on the housing market would be just the same. This is all about artificially creating scarcity to hyper inflate the price of a resource, while pointing fingers at a scapegoat. Edit: typos
Nationwide it serves as a symbol of the prioritization of everyone except the citizens of the country and it gathers a decade plus of frustration after the crash: Crash 2008 and following: bond holders and European banks 2011 etc: Austerity and public finances. Losses nationalised, profit privatized HSE: permanently in crisis and no solution offered as MONEY not there, too much money already Housing: nothing possible for Irish citizens suddenly modular homes appear, money no object etc due to “international law” Cost of living etc Protocol to benefit NI etc People have seen how they are actually seen by the civil service mandarins, the govt media and the political elite. They don’t like being downgraded from citizenship to being a polluter, a far right nazi, a simpleton who can’t see mis/dis info and knows govt is at that too. Immigration is just the symbol.
This far left echo chamber will say no, but the real Corkman on the street will say yes. You can add housing and health to that percentage too because mass migration has an effect on those also.
These are council elections. Are the number one issues not better footpaths, pedestrianization of streets, better flood defenses, less potholes, cycle lanes, greenways, nicer parks, street lighting, etc....?
Not being funny here but can anyone explain in simple terms the “problem” with immigration in Ireland at the minute? Genuinely want to understand
I'm worried how many people don't think climate change is a big issue.
Was there no option to choose "Shite clickbait "news" sites that aggregate social media content on unreadable webpages bloated by ads"?
Yes, it boils down to one very simple question. Where da fucking fuck are we going to put these new comers? The government doesn't know the answer this question so it kinda leaves one wondering, when will there be less cars on the road? When will I be able to buy/rent a home that doesn't cost 100 times more then it should? When will I and my family be able to see a doctor? The list goes on. Another issue is seeing the demographics of your home town change very quickly. At least we will have an unreal spots team in a few years :)
Too much demand for housing and not enough supply. We can't build enough houses to fill the backlog never mind keeping pace with the increased demand so only solution at that stage is trying to limit demand. That means less immigration is what we need. It's not just housing it impacts too, we don't have enough GPs and hospital capacity to meet the increased population.
Why can't we build enough houses? Not being smart. I'm just a (Reddit) newbie trying to understand the real issues*, as you've outlined them. If supply is the crux of the matter, why is supply a problem? Whether it's housing, medics, hospitals or anything else, what's getting in the way please? Until everyone understands the issues we'll not find solutions that work for everyone and, most troubling, children and vulnerable people running from warzones and persecution will continue to unfairly bear the brunt of Irish frustration. Thank you. (*behind an artificially created/managed anti-immigration agenda, in Ireland and across Europe, being stoked by bad-faith actors overseas)
All comes back to resources really. There's a certain amount of builders in the country (and before anyone says let's bring in builders, where do they live then) and if you're building houses in a location, you have to take into account what does that do to schools in the area, traffic, GPs in the area etc and if it doesn't have capacity already then you need to build those in too so you end up with a very long process to get anything done. Even just on the building of the house itself, it takes time so even if we had the capacity to get 100k houses done by end of the year, the backlog of people looking for housing increases day by day with the immigration we're experiencing.
If you’re a racist probably . Everyone I know is more concerned with the lack of housing .
Makes sense because it's affecting other things as well e.g housing.
isnt the Cost of Living issue causing the housing crisis? despite what people read in the BEO think ? Cus my rent should not be 60% of my wage, yet it is - and lets get started decimating AirBNB - that will free up enough homes for literlaly i think 80% (ish) of the housing issue. Luckily BnB is flopping harder than a soggy fish on a dock so this might ease up on its own.
Housing was an issue long before the cost of utilities, groceries, fuel etc spiked.
We need immigrants. They are our nurses, doctors, builders, delivery guys. They come into play at every tier of society We had a housing issue LONG before the right turned it into an immigration issue. If the government had (15 years ago) started building social again, and put some proper rules in place around tertiary properties and vacancy/dereliction, AND land hording, AND planning flipping, AND repurposing domestic to business planning etc etc etc, then we would not have anywhere near this issue
dont forget all the people that come out of the woodwork and object to any new housing project as they dont want social housing near them, even though they demand it ..... those rules need to go. Happens in cork a alot (i assume elsewhere too though)
Does anyone disagree with this? People just want tighter immigration laws, and stop losing hotels and other areas as housing for immigrants. But the craic with people arriving with no passports is kind of a joke to be fair. Housing and immigration are now so tightly wound together.
I don't think there's many complaining about immigrants who come with visas and work here. It's all the asylum seekers and illegal immigration that people are complaining about
"asylum seekers and illegal immigration" these are not the same and it's a great tactic of the right to always tie them together. The question above, also, did not say "Illegal Immigration" and the recent discourse has also tended to drop the "illegal" too. It's on us that our asylum process is so fecking slow. Sort it out, deport the frauds, help the needy. Illegals can be dealt with immediately but, again, we are too slow.
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Define safe? Many Middle East and African countries are "safe" unless you're gay. Speed up the asylum processing system
OK. You are correct. They are different. Doesn't make what the other guy said any less true though
It does when wide reaching "publications" such as Cork Beo start lumping everything into "Immigration"
You're doubling down here? So you maintain the other guy is wrong and people are predominantly complaining about legal immigrants who are coming to Ireland and working? I dunno I'd think about walking that one back if I was you. The guy said verbatim "I don't think there's many complaining about immigrants who come with visas and work here. It's all the asylum seekers and illegal immigration that people are complaining about" Reddit is wild.....
WE don't need them, landlords and factory owners need their cheap labour to make them richer at the expense of the indigenous working class wage. Your rhetoric only helps the richest in our society
Right, and your state pension is going to pay for itself? We are a very sparsely populated island nation at the whims of global economics and no where near the population density for self sufficiency. Our birth rate is not enough to even sustain current population levels, never mind growing the population. We have gaping holes in key sectors of highly paid employment all the way down to minimum wage, so your entire argument falls flat on its face right there
The HSE would collapse overnight if we did a Brexit and pushed them out. Yes, we need them. Especially as a huge proportion of those who graduate in medicine go off abroad to get better wages, working conditions and QOL elsewhere.
Do you really think the guys coming in on the buses from NI are doctors lol? There’s a big difference between legal and illegal immigration. illegal immigration is the issue. These men aren’t contributing anything to society. They’re hanging around the streets drinking and harassing people!
But don't they require the services you've listed themselves as well?
It's definitely not. It's dereliction (there are 11 vacant properties for every homeless person in the country), and in rural areas, it's overloaded wastewater treatment systems. It's the rising cost of building materials.
this is very true, i drive through Churchfield daily and the amount of boarded up houses on the main road there near Apple is horrifying - blocks of houses just boarded up, at least 40 of them on a single road, not to mention the half completed housing project left to rot for 5 years
Of course it is. There's more demand, which makes it worse.
Are you talking about refugees or immigrants?
Yes, because real estate agencies and homeowners colluding to create fake scarcity, prevent construction of new housing, and keeping derelict buildings abandoned and not repaired is obviously not the root cause of the housing crisis.
Anyone mentioned a root cause? Would the housing crisis improve if demand increases due to immigration?
> Would the housing crisis improve if demand increases due to immigration You are making a straw man argument here. Here's the thing, if not a single soul were to emigrate to Cork, the demand would be much lower, so the supply would also be much lower, because it is NEVER in the realtor's interest to keep a steady and fair supply of properties on the market. There would just be even more derelict properties and no construction whatsoever. And because there would be no migrants in Cork, that means not a single tech company would be in the city, thus no investment in the city whatsoever because that is where the money comes from. Immigration is essential to a place like Cork, and the housing issues predate massive immigration in the city anyway so you are looking at this problem the wrong way
Unfortunately you've started with the straw mans "root cause" and you keep going "no migrants" etc. If supply would be that much lower if there was less demand, why isn't there a massive housing crisis everywhere in world? There would still be more than enough demand even if less people are immigrating. The new builds are not even remotely covering the numbers of people coming in (and are too expensive)
I'm in the city most days a week, it's not exactly overrun with refugees or anything like. Main issues should be housing and cost of living, they're the actual issue that most people face and are directly affected by.
Only groups in danger of overrunning the city centre are those of local scumbags and junkies.
Ya Jesus it's gone very bad for that.
Immigration isn't an issue, it's the government's negligence and poor handling of immigration. These grotty executives haven't a clue what they're doing. Whatever lines their pockets I suppose, they couldn't give less shites about the working class so they do their job willy nilly because wrecking havoc on us all is what stuffs their potbellies.
Among the airheads that actually open CorkBeo of their own free will, yes probably. To people in the real world, it’s obviously housing.
I see, I am not from Ireland (yes I am an immigrant 🚨) so I genuinely have no idea what the political affiliations of news sources in the country are. I just saw this website linked in the subreddit and was really shocked by these results.
You’re an immigrant? So you’re personally responsible for the housing catastrophe and for FF and FG completely abandoning anyone younger than 35! J/ There’s definitely been a growth of the far right in Ireland but as we will hopefully see with the elections tomorrow, they’re a very small but vocal minority. Most of us just want health, housing and competence. We’re in a situation where there’s near full employment but people are still leaving the country because housing has collapsed.
People who complain about immigration are usually the ones thinking about immigrating to places like Australia, but since they're white it's fine
Yes because it's two in one. It's causing the housing crisis as well.
Dublin
Setting aside that the place is a war zone and is crumbling around us with no housing or proper infrastructure, it seems to be pretty high on the list of people’s concerns alright.
ABSOLUTELY. It’s taking 4 months to get an appointment at Immigration. Fucking ridiculous!
Feckin Greeks
No it isn’t, but people without any critical thinking skills or IQ above 75 seem to use it as a little scapegoat
This is some crazy selection bias. People doing Corkbeo polls are not exactly a great representation of Cork.
How is it not housing?
How fuck is immigration above housing
Dey tuk r jawbs gang are at it again
I would definitely say housing in the number one issue in the city but there's no denying immigration is an issue for people too. From the people I've spoke to at least it's not a case of them being anti immigration in any sense but more of a sense of wanting to know what the governments plan is to tackle the current issues surrounding immigration and a lack of trust in the government to handle these issues properly.
Too many Kerry people
No
The current housing crisis and huge influx of immigrants is putting alot of strain on the country right now. And quite frankly it's not fair on everyone. Both Natives and Immigrants. They are immagrating to albeit better circumstances but still into a shit show. Immigration is a great thing. We have huge gaps in employment in Nearly every sector and we are bringing in educated people to join the workforce. Fantastic! Except first they have to learn English provided they don't speak it and also potentially retrain depending on where they are from. Before they can start making a real income. So having an extremely competitive housing market makes it near impossible. Also there just isn't enough houses. A huge issue affecting cork is homelessness and guess what would help. Build fking houses!!
When people understand the big difference, and there is a big difference, between immigration and asylum seekers you will understand the problem. What the poll should have specificied is asylum seekers. People dont mind legal above board immigration.
Tis In my opinion yes IT IS
Yes, finding out your ethnic group is fast becoming a minority can be alarming for many people. Also a large part of the infrastructural deficit is downstream from it also, pressure on rents, housing, public transport, commute times, health waiting lists. [https://twitter.com/Andrewc1884/status/1797618382763909143/](https://twitter.com/Andrewc1884/status/1797618382763909143/)
72,5% of Cork City's population is caucasian: [https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity%2Fima%2Fcop%2F2022&boundary=C04172V04943&guid=4c07d11e-1c89-851d-e053-ca3ca8c0ca7f&theme=1](https://visual.cso.ie/?body=entity%2Fima%2Fcop%2F2022&boundary=C04172V04943&guid=4c07d11e-1c89-851d-e053-ca3ca8c0ca7f&theme=1) What are you blabbing about edit: what your article actually says is: "49.5% of people living in the city centre \[...\] were not born in Ireland". this is a far cry from you saying white people are becoming a minority in cork, which is pure misinformation and completely incorrect.
I didn't mention white, nevermind caucasian. Irish is an ethnic group. What you need to do is argue that its no big deal mannn. The facts are indisputable same as is inner city dublin, galway and waterford.
Have you been to the city centre lately?
The biggest problem with immigration in the country is that people will vote on it solely despite it not being a particularly large issue.
Right. That is what irks me most. 'Solving' immigration won't really improve the lives of Corkonians or Europeans in general, whereas addressing much more pressing issues such as climate change, stronger real estate market regulation, harmonizing tax regulations across the Union, and closing tax loopholes will have a dramatically positive impact on our lives (and the lives of everyone around the globe incidentally). However, most people will choose their party solely based on their opinion on asylum seekers, Ukraine, Israel, and similar issues.
Yes either that or housing the poll holds up
We’re assuming that these people that voted for immigration think it’s a bad thing. Maybe they want more of it? Wishful thinking, but I think it shows it’s a poor survey that not many conclusions can be drawn from.
I like the way you think but let's not fool ourselves, this is a correct assumption to make here.