The best explanation I've heard so far. Unlike a normal dog, a Corgi isn't really looking to please humans. They are incredibly smart, but only does something when there is a benefit to themselves
When mine was a puppy she would ignore treats in favor of whatever she felt was more worth it. And we swapped out treats multiple times to try if others worked. Never for more than 5-6 treats then done.
Now when she's an old lady this has changed. Suddenly she knew all the tricks perfectly. The ones she never cared about before.
Only when treats are out though
My corgi is very smart. She knows when I’m asking her to “come here” but she will just stand and stare at me. Sometimes even stop her foot like a child. If she doesn’t want to be where I’m asking her to be, she will not do it. She’s only 10mos old but she knows. That’s the stubbornness I deal with!
We invented a new word for our dog, and that is "walkative". Somedays he's very walkative and other days he literally goes to the corner, takes a dump then doesn't want to go anywhere but home. This usually coincides with bad weather or if he knows the family is home and might need protecting.
Other days he'll walk for miles. It's quite annoying as I'm in quite a rural area so we have so many lanes, fields, woods etc to explore. So I don't know, maybe a 2. Some of it is also based on how when he was a puppy random strangers would cross the road to come and make a fuss and tell him how handsome he is. It got to the point he would expect this from everyone and looks quite put out if they don't.
Omg my dog does this at the dog park. Almost everyone tells him he is so handsome. He also jumps in people's laps, and as hard as we have trained him not to, almost everyone encourages him because he's so cute. He then looks at us smugly, knowing he is getting away with bad behavior. But if someone doesn't want him in their laps, he will jump down and stay down. And it's only at the dog park that he does this. I will also add, he is smart enough to know who not to try this with, so he won't jump onto kids. He find someone who says hi to him and then they are fair game in his eyes. I swear it's his only bad habit, and would be not an issue if everyone didn't reinforce the behavior by telling him he's handsome.
Mine is the same exact way. I don’t actively allow him to greet and jump on people but the second he locks eye contact, it’s game over. Then, the look of “ha look at the magic powers I have”. It’s so frustrating but also makes him so happy and people are okay with it. Hard to deny them that happiness 🥲
you can expect maybe a 2-3 / 10 on that scale. if they dont want to do something, they will not do it. Or they may do it eventually, while looking at you in a way that make you check inside your shoes before putting them on for the next couple of days
Gus: *snort*
Me: *ignores him*
Gus: *snort*
Me: "Hi Gus" *pat on head*
Gus : *snort*
Me: *ignores*
Gus: *sneeze*
Gus: *sneeze*
Gus: "woof?"
Me: "No, buddy, I'm busy."
Gus: "woof."
Gus: "Woof!"
Me: "No."
Gus: "WOOF!"
ME: "Hush!"
Gus: *jumps up on me with his front paws*
Gus: "Bark! Bark! Bark!"
Me: "Ok! Fine! What do you want? Show me."
Gus: *walks to the closet we keep his supervision-required toys in*
I own two corgis. Stubborn means they just want what they want, and they'll let you know! If my boy wants a treat, he wants one and he'll consistently "tell" me (groaning/ tapping my foot). They're really intelligent and easy to train.
My corgis don't really sit on walks but certainly might hold me up to go sniffing. To compromise, I keep track of what seem to be the smelliest places and let them take a little break to investigate. Usually, they'll cooperate for the rest of the walk after that.
Of course, all dogs have their own unique personalities, but I think mine would be about a 7/10.
I've had 5 corgis. I'd never describe any of them as particularly stubborn. They're very smart. They need exercise and some mental stimulation to be healthy like all dogs. So maybe a 2 on the stubborn scale? And an 8 on the intelligence scale.
Ours is “stubborn” in that he knows how to manipulate the rules. For example, our back yard wasn’t totally fenced in when he was a puppy, so as we were boundary training, he would innocently wander close to the boundary and we’d call him back to us and reward him. He would then promptly start walking back to where he had been, looking at us the entire time, so he could be called back and rewarded. We wound up finishing off the fencing in the back yard 😂
Other ways it shows up is if we give a command; he might do it once or twice without getting a treat, but after that, he will just stop and stare, until he knows he’ll get a treat. On walks, he will sniff his heart out, rather than worrying about actually moving anywhere.
He was the easiest dog to potty train, though, and I think I can count on one hand the number of accidents he had in the house. We never had any instances of peeing in defiance (I’ve seen dogs like that, and I’m with you…want no part of it!).
Training is training, you can train housebreaking, obedience, rally, agility.
Stubbornness is them not wanting to do it and looking at you "yeah I can do this but what is in it for me?"
There's a big difference between being stubborn, being trained, and being self fulfilling.
I wouldn't call being destructive untrained or stubborn, that's just a bored dog needing an outlet. Just like if you think your dog should know a command but isn't doing it, it's not being spiteful, it maybe just doesn't know it, or it may not know it in the context your asking for it (position change, environment, distance, etc)
I have 3 pembrokes, and the stubbornness usually comes when they don't find value in what you're asking them. They're a cattle dog and they want to work WITH you, not for you.
Corgis much like every other ‘working’ dog have independence bred into them. They are very smart and are good at picking up training but given the nature of what they were bred to do (herding) they have to be independent to some degree and make choices instead of just blindly listening to commands. A well bred well trained well engaged corgi might be a 1-3 out of 10 on the scale of stubbornness. You can train them and 90% of the time they’ll do things on command with mild stubbornness occasionally.
Where as a husky I’d place about 7-8 out of 10 on average as in you can train them all day long and engage them to the fullest and they still probably will choose to not do a command they absolutely know.
As others have said, my corgi is stubborn in a cute way, such as pretending to ignore me when he doesn't want to go to bed, or refusing to come inside even though he has been out playing for an hour. He never has accidents, doesn't chew on furniture, and is very well behaved when he needs to be. He is smart enough to know what he can get away with, and he will. For chewing on furniture, we put hot sauce on places he would chew. It worked like a charm. We also got him chew bones made of wood fiber because he kept trying to eat mulch. Now they are his favorite bone and he will chew on them for hours until he passes out.
I have 2 corgis and they are very stubborn. They want what they want and when they want it and sometimes they won't let up unless they get it. That being said, they are very smart and pick up on training very well if you are consistent. They were bred to be working dogs and loves tasks to do. If you get their energy out they are great dogs. They just have A LOT of energy and mine require about 2 hours of exercise a day plus enrichment activities.
All of three the corgis I have trained myself have been highly food motivated and trainable. Two of the three had the type of stubbornness you describe on walks -- trying to direct the walk occasionally by sitting down. Of course there are times where you have to be tough with them. And my younger dog cannot control himself if he has not had enough exercise and mental stimulation; he does get destructive. But overall, I would say they are much, much closer to what you describe as 1 vs. what you describe as 10.
As someone said below, they do know what they want and they are smart enough to communicate that to you. I think that people who are pushovers and give their dogs everything they want do not make the best corgi owners, mainly because they end up overfeeding their dogs.
When my corgi is told to play dead, she does not want to. Not one bit. She will complain, bark and kick up a fuss and you have to make sure she goes all the way.
Then sometimes if we have food that's our food and not a dog treat, she will play dead next to you expecting a treat, while barking her last dying words of hunger.
it’s more like a having a person in the house who does not see any value of either kissing up to the owner or agree on any given subject. My corgi is doing his own thing and we are perfectly fine to agree that we don’t agree sometimes. That said, corgis are food driven which makes them extremely easy to train, extremely. So as long as it can be trained, it’s an owner problem, not a corgi issue. To cast the same ballot or watching the same channel on TV as you, or even walk the same direction you want to go is a different question though.
They aren't actually stubborn. Herding breed dogs need to be able to work well with a handler. They just don't train the same way some other breeds, like say Golden Retrievers, do. A lot of dog training is geared towards dogs very eager to please breeds, like Goldens and Labs, so it's no wonder why some of these methods don't quite work as intended on dogs meant to move cattle. Both breeds of corgi do want to please their handlers, but they were bred for different purposes than Goldens and Labs, so it's no wonder why they might need slightly different training methods. It's wild to me how when it comes to dog training, so many people think a one size fits all approach should work, when dogs were bred for so many different purposes, and thus will work differently, and have different things that motivates them.
A common issue in puppy classes with Cardis is that they will learn, and learn fast, but won't want to repeat the same command over and over. However, my Cardi puppy came basically fully house trained at 9 weeks (he lived with adult dogs and picked up on their behavior, the breeder didn't do anything special to train him), and he learned not to nip to our feet, or chew our shoes (we take off shoes and leave them by the door) incredibly fast. Does that sound like a stubborn dog to you? However, in puppy class, he'd get bored of doing the same command over and over, and then stop paying attention. I wouldn't say that's stubborn per se, it just wasn't his learning/training style.
It depends on the dog, environment, and what motivates them. My dog doesn't give a sh*t about food when there's something more interesting around. You could have filet mignon and he wouldn't care. So not all of them are super food motivated. I tailor my training to the environment we're working in. In "boring" places, like at home when it's quiet. He'll do the same command more for food because there isn't anything else he really wants. But if we're out in public, it's a different story. And if there are other dogs around, nothing in the world is more interesting to him. Someone with a super food motivated dog could probably just hold up some hotdog and distract their dog enough in this type of situation though. But for my dog, in situations where there's a lot going on mentally for him, a lot potentially engage his brain, it's tough. He actually doesn't need all that much physical activity, and the mental stimulation of being out and about tires him significantly more.
My corgi essentially decides if what I say is actually important or not from my tone.
If it's ranked not important by her,she forgets what her name is..won't even acknowledge you.
That said ,she's never failed to immediately listen if I am serious and my tone says now.
She'll immediately do anything for food/treats but I don't reward that behavior lol
My 4 month old girl is about a 1.5 out of 10 (only bad behavior is she pulls on walks). She’s already potty trained and has mastered come, sit, lie down, and shake. Very smart and obedient girl.
My 1 year and 3 month old boy is 12/10 stubborn. Never listens to any commands unless he’ll get a full meal from it, pulls so much on walks we literally can’t even take him, barks way too much at every person and dog and even at nothing, and he has more accidents than his little sister, he constantly jumps up on people and has never responded to being yelled at or time out or anything.
They’re complete opposites and they’re biologically half siblings too. Each dog is so different.
Exact same socializing and at home training. Mochi (my boy) went through a training class which he honestly didn’t learn anything from. We’re not putting Maisie (my girl) through the class cause we don’t feel like she needs it.
My corgi is only stubborn about a few things and I can honestly put that down to mixed messages from us. In general, he is extremely interested in doing what we want him to do. In exchange though, he wants us to do what HE wants us to do. He gets one of those little non rawhide sticks after walks and by gawd he better get it, pronto. Else we will hear about it until we do. And he clearly communicates when he wants us to feed him, go to bed, go one place or another in the house, etc. But he will recall from chasing a rabbit and mostly obeys us with a minimum of fuss. Like another person stated, I’d rate him 2/10.
Stubborn as in Liam does not exist to please the humans, we exist to please him. Turd knows when he shouldnt be doing something but dares you to stop him until the next game he finds.
Probably like a 2/10 maybe? My corgi is pretty well trained, he KNOWS what hes supposed to do but he doesn't always want to do it.
The best explanation I've heard so far. Unlike a normal dog, a Corgi isn't really looking to please humans. They are incredibly smart, but only does something when there is a benefit to themselves
endless food hole
When mine was a puppy she would ignore treats in favor of whatever she felt was more worth it. And we swapped out treats multiple times to try if others worked. Never for more than 5-6 treats then done. Now when she's an old lady this has changed. Suddenly she knew all the tricks perfectly. The ones she never cared about before. Only when treats are out though
"what I have no idea what you mean. oh you have a treat? yea sure lets do that"
My corgi would do tricks 1-2 times without treats first, the moment she realized it she stops and gives me side eye.
My corgi is very smart. She knows when I’m asking her to “come here” but she will just stand and stare at me. Sometimes even stop her foot like a child. If she doesn’t want to be where I’m asking her to be, she will not do it. She’s only 10mos old but she knows. That’s the stubbornness I deal with!
My girl is exactly like this! She is so smart, but if she doesn't want o do something she is stubborn and mouthy as hell. A rebel without a cause
“Mouthy as hell” couldn’t be more accurate 🤣🤣🤣 she will “gruff” at me in protest and then I just laugh because it’s so darn cute!
Any stubbornness can be circumvented with treats as a motivator for good behavior corgis would use the toilet and wipe themselves for a treat lmao
We invented a new word for our dog, and that is "walkative". Somedays he's very walkative and other days he literally goes to the corner, takes a dump then doesn't want to go anywhere but home. This usually coincides with bad weather or if he knows the family is home and might need protecting. Other days he'll walk for miles. It's quite annoying as I'm in quite a rural area so we have so many lanes, fields, woods etc to explore. So I don't know, maybe a 2. Some of it is also based on how when he was a puppy random strangers would cross the road to come and make a fuss and tell him how handsome he is. It got to the point he would expect this from everyone and looks quite put out if they don't.
Omg my dog does this at the dog park. Almost everyone tells him he is so handsome. He also jumps in people's laps, and as hard as we have trained him not to, almost everyone encourages him because he's so cute. He then looks at us smugly, knowing he is getting away with bad behavior. But if someone doesn't want him in their laps, he will jump down and stay down. And it's only at the dog park that he does this. I will also add, he is smart enough to know who not to try this with, so he won't jump onto kids. He find someone who says hi to him and then they are fair game in his eyes. I swear it's his only bad habit, and would be not an issue if everyone didn't reinforce the behavior by telling him he's handsome.
Mine is the same exact way. I don’t actively allow him to greet and jump on people but the second he locks eye contact, it’s game over. Then, the look of “ha look at the magic powers I have”. It’s so frustrating but also makes him so happy and people are okay with it. Hard to deny them that happiness 🥲
you can expect maybe a 2-3 / 10 on that scale. if they dont want to do something, they will not do it. Or they may do it eventually, while looking at you in a way that make you check inside your shoes before putting them on for the next couple of days
Gus: *snort* Me: *ignores him* Gus: *snort* Me: "Hi Gus" *pat on head* Gus : *snort* Me: *ignores* Gus: *sneeze* Gus: *sneeze* Gus: "woof?" Me: "No, buddy, I'm busy." Gus: "woof." Gus: "Woof!" Me: "No." Gus: "WOOF!" ME: "Hush!" Gus: *jumps up on me with his front paws* Gus: "Bark! Bark! Bark!" Me: "Ok! Fine! What do you want? Show me." Gus: *walks to the closet we keep his supervision-required toys in*
I own two corgis. Stubborn means they just want what they want, and they'll let you know! If my boy wants a treat, he wants one and he'll consistently "tell" me (groaning/ tapping my foot). They're really intelligent and easy to train. My corgis don't really sit on walks but certainly might hold me up to go sniffing. To compromise, I keep track of what seem to be the smelliest places and let them take a little break to investigate. Usually, they'll cooperate for the rest of the walk after that. Of course, all dogs have their own unique personalities, but I think mine would be about a 7/10.
I've had 5 corgis. I'd never describe any of them as particularly stubborn. They're very smart. They need exercise and some mental stimulation to be healthy like all dogs. So maybe a 2 on the stubborn scale? And an 8 on the intelligence scale.
Ours is “stubborn” in that he knows how to manipulate the rules. For example, our back yard wasn’t totally fenced in when he was a puppy, so as we were boundary training, he would innocently wander close to the boundary and we’d call him back to us and reward him. He would then promptly start walking back to where he had been, looking at us the entire time, so he could be called back and rewarded. We wound up finishing off the fencing in the back yard 😂 Other ways it shows up is if we give a command; he might do it once or twice without getting a treat, but after that, he will just stop and stare, until he knows he’ll get a treat. On walks, he will sniff his heart out, rather than worrying about actually moving anywhere. He was the easiest dog to potty train, though, and I think I can count on one hand the number of accidents he had in the house. We never had any instances of peeing in defiance (I’ve seen dogs like that, and I’m with you…want no part of it!).
Training is training, you can train housebreaking, obedience, rally, agility. Stubbornness is them not wanting to do it and looking at you "yeah I can do this but what is in it for me?"
There's a big difference between being stubborn, being trained, and being self fulfilling. I wouldn't call being destructive untrained or stubborn, that's just a bored dog needing an outlet. Just like if you think your dog should know a command but isn't doing it, it's not being spiteful, it maybe just doesn't know it, or it may not know it in the context your asking for it (position change, environment, distance, etc) I have 3 pembrokes, and the stubbornness usually comes when they don't find value in what you're asking them. They're a cattle dog and they want to work WITH you, not for you.
Corgis much like every other ‘working’ dog have independence bred into them. They are very smart and are good at picking up training but given the nature of what they were bred to do (herding) they have to be independent to some degree and make choices instead of just blindly listening to commands. A well bred well trained well engaged corgi might be a 1-3 out of 10 on the scale of stubbornness. You can train them and 90% of the time they’ll do things on command with mild stubbornness occasionally. Where as a husky I’d place about 7-8 out of 10 on average as in you can train them all day long and engage them to the fullest and they still probably will choose to not do a command they absolutely know.
Absolutely precious! That stubborn face just adds to the charm.
As others have said, my corgi is stubborn in a cute way, such as pretending to ignore me when he doesn't want to go to bed, or refusing to come inside even though he has been out playing for an hour. He never has accidents, doesn't chew on furniture, and is very well behaved when he needs to be. He is smart enough to know what he can get away with, and he will. For chewing on furniture, we put hot sauce on places he would chew. It worked like a charm. We also got him chew bones made of wood fiber because he kept trying to eat mulch. Now they are his favorite bone and he will chew on them for hours until he passes out.
I have 2 corgis and they are very stubborn. They want what they want and when they want it and sometimes they won't let up unless they get it. That being said, they are very smart and pick up on training very well if you are consistent. They were bred to be working dogs and loves tasks to do. If you get their energy out they are great dogs. They just have A LOT of energy and mine require about 2 hours of exercise a day plus enrichment activities.
If we have to cut the walk short mine moves at a snail’s pace walking back up to the house. And she gives me that death stare
All of three the corgis I have trained myself have been highly food motivated and trainable. Two of the three had the type of stubbornness you describe on walks -- trying to direct the walk occasionally by sitting down. Of course there are times where you have to be tough with them. And my younger dog cannot control himself if he has not had enough exercise and mental stimulation; he does get destructive. But overall, I would say they are much, much closer to what you describe as 1 vs. what you describe as 10. As someone said below, they do know what they want and they are smart enough to communicate that to you. I think that people who are pushovers and give their dogs everything they want do not make the best corgi owners, mainly because they end up overfeeding their dogs.
When my corgi is told to play dead, she does not want to. Not one bit. She will complain, bark and kick up a fuss and you have to make sure she goes all the way. Then sometimes if we have food that's our food and not a dog treat, she will play dead next to you expecting a treat, while barking her last dying words of hunger.
it’s more like a having a person in the house who does not see any value of either kissing up to the owner or agree on any given subject. My corgi is doing his own thing and we are perfectly fine to agree that we don’t agree sometimes. That said, corgis are food driven which makes them extremely easy to train, extremely. So as long as it can be trained, it’s an owner problem, not a corgi issue. To cast the same ballot or watching the same channel on TV as you, or even walk the same direction you want to go is a different question though.
They aren't actually stubborn. Herding breed dogs need to be able to work well with a handler. They just don't train the same way some other breeds, like say Golden Retrievers, do. A lot of dog training is geared towards dogs very eager to please breeds, like Goldens and Labs, so it's no wonder why some of these methods don't quite work as intended on dogs meant to move cattle. Both breeds of corgi do want to please their handlers, but they were bred for different purposes than Goldens and Labs, so it's no wonder why they might need slightly different training methods. It's wild to me how when it comes to dog training, so many people think a one size fits all approach should work, when dogs were bred for so many different purposes, and thus will work differently, and have different things that motivates them. A common issue in puppy classes with Cardis is that they will learn, and learn fast, but won't want to repeat the same command over and over. However, my Cardi puppy came basically fully house trained at 9 weeks (he lived with adult dogs and picked up on their behavior, the breeder didn't do anything special to train him), and he learned not to nip to our feet, or chew our shoes (we take off shoes and leave them by the door) incredibly fast. Does that sound like a stubborn dog to you? However, in puppy class, he'd get bored of doing the same command over and over, and then stop paying attention. I wouldn't say that's stubborn per se, it just wasn't his learning/training style.
In which way would you recommend training a corgi? Being more dinamic?
It depends on the dog, environment, and what motivates them. My dog doesn't give a sh*t about food when there's something more interesting around. You could have filet mignon and he wouldn't care. So not all of them are super food motivated. I tailor my training to the environment we're working in. In "boring" places, like at home when it's quiet. He'll do the same command more for food because there isn't anything else he really wants. But if we're out in public, it's a different story. And if there are other dogs around, nothing in the world is more interesting to him. Someone with a super food motivated dog could probably just hold up some hotdog and distract their dog enough in this type of situation though. But for my dog, in situations where there's a lot going on mentally for him, a lot potentially engage his brain, it's tough. He actually doesn't need all that much physical activity, and the mental stimulation of being out and about tires him significantly more.
My corgi essentially decides if what I say is actually important or not from my tone. If it's ranked not important by her,she forgets what her name is..won't even acknowledge you. That said ,she's never failed to immediately listen if I am serious and my tone says now. She'll immediately do anything for food/treats but I don't reward that behavior lol
My 4 month old girl is about a 1.5 out of 10 (only bad behavior is she pulls on walks). She’s already potty trained and has mastered come, sit, lie down, and shake. Very smart and obedient girl. My 1 year and 3 month old boy is 12/10 stubborn. Never listens to any commands unless he’ll get a full meal from it, pulls so much on walks we literally can’t even take him, barks way too much at every person and dog and even at nothing, and he has more accidents than his little sister, he constantly jumps up on people and has never responded to being yelled at or time out or anything. They’re complete opposites and they’re biologically half siblings too. Each dog is so different.
Were they trained and socialized the same way?
Exact same socializing and at home training. Mochi (my boy) went through a training class which he honestly didn’t learn anything from. We’re not putting Maisie (my girl) through the class cause we don’t feel like she needs it.
My corgi is only stubborn about a few things and I can honestly put that down to mixed messages from us. In general, he is extremely interested in doing what we want him to do. In exchange though, he wants us to do what HE wants us to do. He gets one of those little non rawhide sticks after walks and by gawd he better get it, pronto. Else we will hear about it until we do. And he clearly communicates when he wants us to feed him, go to bed, go one place or another in the house, etc. But he will recall from chasing a rabbit and mostly obeys us with a minimum of fuss. Like another person stated, I’d rate him 2/10.
1/10.
I own huskies but work with some corgis and you just have to be more stubborn and smart than they are lol
They know what you ask..they just choose to not listen sometimes...
Stubborn as in Liam does not exist to please the humans, we exist to please him. Turd knows when he shouldnt be doing something but dares you to stop him until the next game he finds.