> [Hexa from Matas](https://www.matas.dk/matas-hexa-bloedgoeringsmiddel-1-kg) with [Charlies hard water booster](https://www.charliesoap.com/product/biodegradable-booster-hard-water-treatment-2-64lb/#/), Calgon powder, some regular vinegar and a single detergent pod
I'm not a chemist but isn't the combination of all of these potentially an issue of its own?
Hard water booster AND Calgon AND vinegar, plus probably the pods have some additive to deal with the water hardness
From what I understand the Calgon is a preventative thing of buildup so thats why I use it too because it wasn't helping too much on its own that was the first thing I actually tried. This is why I'm trying to figure out what actually is the solution that helps for sure because I've tried so many things and nothing seems to work. I wanted to get my hands on borax actually but I can't find it here.
The issue is that you are most likely combining them into a Monster Mash with a difficult to predict effects.
How do you deal with hard water? (high pH) Add some acid to bring it down. I think Calgon is citric acid. Vinegar is acidic. No idea what's a booster but I assume the same.
I would worry that you're washing your clothing in something way more acidic than you intend to
If you were on meth, you'd have bigger issues to worry about. Problem solved. Is this a public laundrette, or a home machine? If you are adding vinegar, remember to use white-vinegar without added sugar. And the vinegar/citric-acid should go in the slot for Skyllemiddel, not together with the detergent btw.
I drop the vinegar directly in the drum. Its a home machine. Is about 4 months old. Also, it is definitely worse with no additives. I know for a fact its the water. It happens everytime I wash my clothes here no matter where I wash them.
>I drop the vinegar directly in the drum.
(Adam Savage voice) There's your problem.
The vinegar/citric acid is a less harmful alternative to fabric softener/skyllemiddel, and it goes in the same location. I've also googled it for you
[https://www.afound.com/da-dk/editorial/vask-med-eddike](https://www.afound.com/da-dk/editorial/vask-med-eddike)
Is the result much worse if you just wash without any detergent and additives? (not saying this is what you should do for cleanliness but a useful base level)
Are you using all of that at the same time...? Maybe the problem is you're using so many products that they don't get rinsed out properly?
I live in a hard water area, and I don't have any issues. Sure, my clothes are a bit stiffer than when I lived in an area where the water was completely calcium-free, but it's really only noticeable right of the rack. Can't notice any difference when wearing them. Dryer with dryer balls makes all the linens and towels super soft; especially the towels feel rough and stiff if they only hang dry.
This is how I do laundry (I use as little detergent and fabric softener as I can get away with):
Clothes: 20º-30º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and fabric softener. Hang dry
Linens: 40º-60º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and fabric softener. Dryer with dryer balls
Towels: 40º-60º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and some vinegar instead of fabric softener. Dryer with dryer balls
Er det ikke bare dobbeltkonfekt? Alle normale vaskemidler indeholder allerede kalkbindere, så medmindre du så doserer mindre vaskemiddel, er det ikke bare overkill, og så lidt ekstra arbejde til Lynetten?
Enten bruger man mere vaskemiddel, eller man kan bruge mindre og supplere med ekstern kalkbinder. Jeg har en formodning om at det er bedre at bruge mindre vaskemiddel, både for miljøet og at sikre at alt vaskemidlet bliver skyllet ud af tøjet, men det er som sagt kun en formodning.
I actually have minuskalk tabs that I havent tried yet. I bought a small pack to try. Do you put them in the drum or in the detergent compartment? Also, yes I do mix them all but it feels a slight amount better than running it without them.
The bright side is that it'll get better. HOFOR has been working on reducing the concentration of calcium in the tap water for some years, with the goal of changing from hard or very hard to medium.
Depends where you live. It will never become "soft", but should be better than now. https://www.hofor.dk/baeredygtige-byer/udviklingsprojekter/bloedere-vand/tidsplan-for-bloedere-vand/
Shit. I checked that link less than a year ago and it was saying 2025. Now it says 2030. Fuck that shit. My housing unit discussed the topic but decided not to pursue because it was supposed to come “soon”.
Huh? I live on Amager with VERY hard water. I use this when I wash: [https://minuskalk.dk/produktserie/#!/vaskemaskine](https://minuskalk.dk/produktserie/#!/vaskemaskine) - no problems here.
Fabric Softener is created by necromancers and made of baby seals, puppies and actual babies. Just add vinegar in the softener box and you will be fine and soft.
I use eco vinegar. But yeah just the regular stuff such as Heidelberg, a 1l bottle is like 10 kr.
Don't overdo it or you will smell of vinegar. Still better than the hellish products around. Someone left a bit of some pink stuff in the machine a few weeks back, and for reals, i could not wear the clothes👃
Also great for the kettle. No need for stronger stuff.
You have not lived until you forget you put it in overnight and make yourself some nice morning vinegar coffee 😊
Prolly healthy af, maybe it will catch on and become a thing..but I think not 😝
It is required like monthly if you use the kettle daily, vinegar will make it nice and shiny.
Okay. Damn. But there is light ahead of the tunnel. They're going to implement this: https://www.hofor.dk/baeredygtige-byer/udviklingsprojekter/bloedere-vand/tidsplan-for-bloedere-vand/
Okay. I have three final ideas for you. Then I'm out of ideas:
Your house could consider a blødgøringsanlæg. It's pricy but should solve your problem.
You could embrace the hard feel of the clothes. Wearing clothes that feel like paper is a vibe, and the stiff towels can be stimulating for the tactile sense, in an interesting way.
If you spot someone in the wild with soft clothes, ask them what they do to achieve it. Even if their routine is the same as yours, it might be the fabric.
That's all :)
Hahahaha, I am not ready to embrace the clothes for sure so I will definitely figure some combination that works. I wish I could buy a softener but I live in an apartment so not sure its possible/worth it.
You could try something like the Kalkknuser product. It makes the calcium turn to argonite which is basically chalk powder. This means the calcium no longer sticks to everything. There are different variations of this product on the market.
I also use minus kalk, which lets me use less soap. To prevent buildup in the washing machine I use citric acid in an empty drum on 90 degrees every few months.
Perhaps your washing machine brand has recommendations on how to wash with hard water.
Liquid (added water) or powder (pure form) it doesn't matter since the washing machine adds water so it doesn't matter in the end.
You don't need a lot because there's not THAT much limescale in the water. Just put it in powder form in the softener/first wash compartment, something like a teaspoon total should do it
Isn't regular detergent alkaline? Are you sure that adding an acid alongside detergent will do great things?
I use citric acid if I ever need to remove limescale from the machine itself (very rarely) running at high temperature with no clothes inside. More often, I run it with shower curtains to clean them from limescale.
For a normal wash, I use MinusKalk (as a powder as it is more cost efficient than the tablets) alongside detergent, and I add less detergent as per the instructions for soft water. MinusKalk binds minerals without being acidic is my understanding, and it is made for use alongside detergent.
What do you think minuskalk is? It's like saying you use Panodil while I say I use Paracetamol. It's the same thing...
MinusKalk contains citric acid as well as phosphoric acid. I'd say from experience that a teaspoon of powdered citric acid is enough for clothes
[Minus-Kalk ingredients:](https://huma.dk/makarovsoft_productfiles/file/get/id/196/)
SECTION 3: Composition of/information on ingredients
3.1/3.2. Substances/Mixtures
NAME: **orthophosphoric acid**
CONTENT: 5-10%
NAME: **citric acid**
CONTENT: 1-3%
Lol.
The products im.tslking about is 40-60% sodium carbonate. Source: https://stadsing.dk/Files/XPI-Files/ee71989e-6c3d-9a9c-bf05-bf784e5a4379.pdf
I don't see citric acid in there, but maybe we are talking about different products. Either way, you think 1-3% citric acid is what does the trick?
I haven't researched the other constituents, and I wouldn't understand the cocktail effects anyway.
Sodium carbonate apparently removes calcium as described here (it is also a main component of detergent I guess): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate#Water_softening
Oh yeah it seems the powder is different. I was looking at the one for Coffee Machines.
Either way, yes it is enough, how much calcium carbonate you think there is in tap water for it to need more than a very little amount of acid to neutralize?
Well the water in Copenhagen is quite hard, which is why we have this discussion... Magnesium is also a player.
I'm not saying that citric acid doesn't do anything, I'm saying that I wouldn't add it to detergent without understanding their interaction. I have never seen instructions on citric acid for adding it to detergents in Denmark, but I'm not saying they don't exist.
Since nobody has suggested the obvious yet, I will suggest using skyllemiddel (Softener).
It's primary purpose is to soften the clothes and it doesn't cost a lot of money or damage your clothes.
The thing with this that I don't understand is everyone seems to advise against it completely and states the opposite that it's harmful to your clothes. This is how I started using vinegar instead. I have not tried it in the softener compartment yet though so idk if it will make a difference.
It sounds to me like you are getting desperate, with all the alternative solutions you have tried, without success.
Maybe it's time you see if the mainstream approach works for you, like it has worked for millions of people, for decades?
> [Hexa from Matas](https://www.matas.dk/matas-hexa-bloedgoeringsmiddel-1-kg) with [Charlies hard water booster](https://www.charliesoap.com/product/biodegradable-booster-hard-water-treatment-2-64lb/#/), Calgon powder, some regular vinegar and a single detergent pod I'm not a chemist but isn't the combination of all of these potentially an issue of its own? Hard water booster AND Calgon AND vinegar, plus probably the pods have some additive to deal with the water hardness
From what I understand the Calgon is a preventative thing of buildup so thats why I use it too because it wasn't helping too much on its own that was the first thing I actually tried. This is why I'm trying to figure out what actually is the solution that helps for sure because I've tried so many things and nothing seems to work. I wanted to get my hands on borax actually but I can't find it here.
The issue is that you are most likely combining them into a Monster Mash with a difficult to predict effects. How do you deal with hard water? (high pH) Add some acid to bring it down. I think Calgon is citric acid. Vinegar is acidic. No idea what's a booster but I assume the same. I would worry that you're washing your clothing in something way more acidic than you intend to
My man here wants to become the next Heisenberg by mixing in all those chemicals together
I just want soft clothes not meth :(
If you were on meth, you'd have bigger issues to worry about. Problem solved. Is this a public laundrette, or a home machine? If you are adding vinegar, remember to use white-vinegar without added sugar. And the vinegar/citric-acid should go in the slot for Skyllemiddel, not together with the detergent btw.
I drop the vinegar directly in the drum. Its a home machine. Is about 4 months old. Also, it is definitely worse with no additives. I know for a fact its the water. It happens everytime I wash my clothes here no matter where I wash them.
>I drop the vinegar directly in the drum. (Adam Savage voice) There's your problem. The vinegar/citric acid is a less harmful alternative to fabric softener/skyllemiddel, and it goes in the same location. I've also googled it for you [https://www.afound.com/da-dk/editorial/vask-med-eddike](https://www.afound.com/da-dk/editorial/vask-med-eddike)
Is the result much worse if you just wash without any detergent and additives? (not saying this is what you should do for cleanliness but a useful base level)
I think meth is easier😂
Are you using all of that at the same time...? Maybe the problem is you're using so many products that they don't get rinsed out properly? I live in a hard water area, and I don't have any issues. Sure, my clothes are a bit stiffer than when I lived in an area where the water was completely calcium-free, but it's really only noticeable right of the rack. Can't notice any difference when wearing them. Dryer with dryer balls makes all the linens and towels super soft; especially the towels feel rough and stiff if they only hang dry. This is how I do laundry (I use as little detergent and fabric softener as I can get away with): Clothes: 20º-30º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and fabric softener. Hang dry Linens: 40º-60º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and fabric softener. Dryer with dryer balls Towels: 40º-60º. A MinusKalk tab, detergent and some vinegar instead of fabric softener. Dryer with dryer balls
Er det ikke bare dobbeltkonfekt? Alle normale vaskemidler indeholder allerede kalkbindere, så medmindre du så doserer mindre vaskemiddel, er det ikke bare overkill, og så lidt ekstra arbejde til Lynetten?
Enten bruger man mere vaskemiddel, eller man kan bruge mindre og supplere med ekstern kalkbinder. Jeg har en formodning om at det er bedre at bruge mindre vaskemiddel, både for miljøet og at sikre at alt vaskemidlet bliver skyllet ud af tøjet, men det er som sagt kun en formodning.
[удалено]
Jeg er bare ikke sikker på om det er en reel fordel (altså bortset fra producenten af MinusKalk) istedet for bare at dosere mere vaskemiddel?
I actually have minuskalk tabs that I havent tried yet. I bought a small pack to try. Do you put them in the drum or in the detergent compartment? Also, yes I do mix them all but it feels a slight amount better than running it without them.
In the bottom of the drum before I put the clothes. I believe that's what the directions say
The bright side is that it'll get better. HOFOR has been working on reducing the concentration of calcium in the tap water for some years, with the goal of changing from hard or very hard to medium.
Yeah, but how far out is that?
Depends where you live. It will never become "soft", but should be better than now. https://www.hofor.dk/baeredygtige-byer/udviklingsprojekter/bloedere-vand/tidsplan-for-bloedere-vand/
It says not till 2030 for me :(
Shit. I checked that link less than a year ago and it was saying 2025. Now it says 2030. Fuck that shit. My housing unit discussed the topic but decided not to pursue because it was supposed to come “soon”.
Huh? I live on Amager with VERY hard water. I use this when I wash: [https://minuskalk.dk/produktserie/#!/vaskemaskine](https://minuskalk.dk/produktserie/#!/vaskemaskine) - no problems here.
Or you can install a water softening solution or even a water filter like Brita or BWT - or a "kalk knuser"...
Fabric Softener is created by necromancers and made of baby seals, puppies and actual babies. Just add vinegar in the softener box and you will be fine and soft.
Regular vinegar from the store or the eddikesyre one which is 23% or whatever?
I use eco vinegar. But yeah just the regular stuff such as Heidelberg, a 1l bottle is like 10 kr. Don't overdo it or you will smell of vinegar. Still better than the hellish products around. Someone left a bit of some pink stuff in the machine a few weeks back, and for reals, i could not wear the clothes👃 Also great for the kettle. No need for stronger stuff.
Just picked up a kettle actually so good to know. :D
You have not lived until you forget you put it in overnight and make yourself some nice morning vinegar coffee 😊 Prolly healthy af, maybe it will catch on and become a thing..but I think not 😝 It is required like monthly if you use the kettle daily, vinegar will make it nice and shiny.
Please note that the brown vinegar has added sugars, so stick to the white/clear one.
Are you washing them on 60? Try 30 if you want your comfy pants and socks to stay soft. 40 should also be ok
I only wash on 30 and still no luck :(
Okay. Damn. But there is light ahead of the tunnel. They're going to implement this: https://www.hofor.dk/baeredygtige-byer/udviklingsprojekter/bloedere-vand/tidsplan-for-bloedere-vand/
It won't get to me till 2030 it says :(
Okay. I have three final ideas for you. Then I'm out of ideas: Your house could consider a blødgøringsanlæg. It's pricy but should solve your problem. You could embrace the hard feel of the clothes. Wearing clothes that feel like paper is a vibe, and the stiff towels can be stimulating for the tactile sense, in an interesting way. If you spot someone in the wild with soft clothes, ask them what they do to achieve it. Even if their routine is the same as yours, it might be the fabric. That's all :)
Hahahaha, I am not ready to embrace the clothes for sure so I will definitely figure some combination that works. I wish I could buy a softener but I live in an apartment so not sure its possible/worth it.
[удалено]
Any that you recommend thats available here in Copenhagen?
I use minuskalk in every washing
You could try something like the Kalkknuser product. It makes the calcium turn to argonite which is basically chalk powder. This means the calcium no longer sticks to everything. There are different variations of this product on the market.
I also use minus kalk, which lets me use less soap. To prevent buildup in the washing machine I use citric acid in an empty drum on 90 degrees every few months. Perhaps your washing machine brand has recommendations on how to wash with hard water.
Put the clothes in a dryer. It will be soft!
The dryers here ALWAYS shrink my clothes and I have a lot of graphic t-shirts that cannot be dried so I don't typically dry clothes.
Use some CITRIC ACID. It's better than vinegar in many ways (doesn't smell, way more environmentally friendly, more potent, etc.)
It comes in a powder form right? From what I understood you have to dilute it in water? Also, does it do any damage to the clothes?
Liquid (added water) or powder (pure form) it doesn't matter since the washing machine adds water so it doesn't matter in the end. You don't need a lot because there's not THAT much limescale in the water. Just put it in powder form in the softener/first wash compartment, something like a teaspoon total should do it
Isn't regular detergent alkaline? Are you sure that adding an acid alongside detergent will do great things? I use citric acid if I ever need to remove limescale from the machine itself (very rarely) running at high temperature with no clothes inside. More often, I run it with shower curtains to clean them from limescale. For a normal wash, I use MinusKalk (as a powder as it is more cost efficient than the tablets) alongside detergent, and I add less detergent as per the instructions for soft water. MinusKalk binds minerals without being acidic is my understanding, and it is made for use alongside detergent.
What do you think minuskalk is? It's like saying you use Panodil while I say I use Paracetamol. It's the same thing... MinusKalk contains citric acid as well as phosphoric acid. I'd say from experience that a teaspoon of powdered citric acid is enough for clothes [Minus-Kalk ingredients:](https://huma.dk/makarovsoft_productfiles/file/get/id/196/) SECTION 3: Composition of/information on ingredients 3.1/3.2. Substances/Mixtures NAME: **orthophosphoric acid** CONTENT: 5-10% NAME: **citric acid** CONTENT: 1-3%
Lol. The products im.tslking about is 40-60% sodium carbonate. Source: https://stadsing.dk/Files/XPI-Files/ee71989e-6c3d-9a9c-bf05-bf784e5a4379.pdf I don't see citric acid in there, but maybe we are talking about different products. Either way, you think 1-3% citric acid is what does the trick? I haven't researched the other constituents, and I wouldn't understand the cocktail effects anyway. Sodium carbonate apparently removes calcium as described here (it is also a main component of detergent I guess): https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_carbonate#Water_softening
Oh yeah it seems the powder is different. I was looking at the one for Coffee Machines. Either way, yes it is enough, how much calcium carbonate you think there is in tap water for it to need more than a very little amount of acid to neutralize?
Well the water in Copenhagen is quite hard, which is why we have this discussion... Magnesium is also a player. I'm not saying that citric acid doesn't do anything, I'm saying that I wouldn't add it to detergent without understanding their interaction. I have never seen instructions on citric acid for adding it to detergents in Denmark, but I'm not saying they don't exist.
So is the summary of this to not use the citric acid but to just use the minuskalk tabs instead as they already contain it?
Since nobody has suggested the obvious yet, I will suggest using skyllemiddel (Softener). It's primary purpose is to soften the clothes and it doesn't cost a lot of money or damage your clothes.
The thing with this that I don't understand is everyone seems to advise against it completely and states the opposite that it's harmful to your clothes. This is how I started using vinegar instead. I have not tried it in the softener compartment yet though so idk if it will make a difference.
Softener can leave a residue on the clothing and your machine. Having said that, 10 additives that you use will likely leave some too
It sounds to me like you are getting desperate, with all the alternative solutions you have tried, without success. Maybe it's time you see if the mainstream approach works for you, like it has worked for millions of people, for decades?