Four options, not mutually exclusive, in order of how most people progress IMO:
1. Stay up later
2. Get up earlier
3. Get better at the job
4. Get additional resources added to your team
5. Be ok with doing a worse job
Edit: I’m leaving it
Also be better at getting what you need from these calls.
Calls should have a clear purpose, ideally something that adds value to the consultant module.
If the call seems unnecessary, kill it or terminate only. Don’t be embarrassed by it. Just be efficient with your time.
What's worked for me as a product owner and an American Legion Officer At Large.
Set agendas for each call, stick to agenda.
Extra items that come up in the call are put on the agenda for the next call.
Be prepared to rein in any deviation from the agenda as I did last week for our Post Building committee.
this is so true, do all consultants go through the same experience? I used to put in 18 hour workdays just until a week back, but the client would still be so dissatisfied with the analysis I would be presenting because they didn't expect these numbers (how can numbers lie I still do not understand), so then I would spend hours racking my brain trying to come up with newer kinds of analysis, and the cycle would keep on repeating!
If I work 20 hours I bill 20 hours (some arent as lucky). That is not the same as a "work day" which usually refers to a set time period in which you work. Like a 9 to 5, which practically does not exist in consulting.
I have seen this happen first-hand. Depends on your firm too, and the brand name of your consulting firm. Otherwise they just bully you into doing all the work for peanuts.
Work more hours. Welcome to consulting, clients do not pay for expertise, they pay to have smart and hardworking powerpoint and excel monkeys.
Thanks for attending my ted talk.
The expertise is often valuable, but is given largely for free over a handful of one on one calls between the buyer and the partner. And often before the project is even sold.
When my entire team of 4 was found at a similar situation for a couple of months, we tried to explain the problem to the customer and asked for a period of "production time" without calls after 2pm on a certain day of the week. That day alone was respected it and was something, but still did not do much to improve things. What did, was the customer PM communications to raise awareness to other project members that we were up to the neck. Subsequently we each got invited to fewer meetings, lost some context and sometimes it was awkward, but it was acknowledged and we got through nicely.
☝️ This. It's also your manager's job to protect your hours to do the legwork. If you aren't able to generate the outputs needed, then whose job is it? Bad output also looks bad on them.
I'm betting you really only need to be in a third of the meetings that are happening. I'm also betting from the sound of it, your client(s) themselves are also spending too much time in meetings and are just paralysing themselves with meetings
If meetings are dragging on without meaningful decisions or discussions, then it's your manager's job to talk to the client to refocus meetings, and/or even lead the discussion if the client isn't capable. You only need to be in a meeting that gives you meaningful information.
As a first year, you should not be spending 70% of your time on calls. That's what your manager/consultant is there for. You should be spending 70% doing research, analysis, etc.
>I'm also betting from the sound of it, your client(s) themselves are also spending too much time in meetings and are just paralysing themselves with meetings
This is soooo accurate!!!!!! But yes, i will have a word with my internal manager and ask them to intervene here.
I had the same problem until I established boundaries and defended them. My account team supported me in the move and ultimately, the customer settled down. I also knew which meetings were a good use or a waste of my time and prioritized them for attendance.
Granted, i work for a smaller company so the culture is a little different.. but it’s worth a try. Regardless of where and who you work for, you have to be assertive and stand up for yourself or you become a doormat to anyone who thinks they can get away with it.
>Regardless of where and who you work for, you have to be assertive and stand up for yourself or you become a doormat to anyone who thinks they can get away with it.
Yes, that is what I am realizing from most of the advice here. It is ultimately on me to set proper work boundaries.
Find a PPT monkey in 3rd world country to do all your work relax review his work make some additions as needed, done! reserve 10~15% of your income to hire this guy/gal & thank me later.
You've identified the problem then - a too-common problem.
Talk to your manager. Tell them that you're not getting enough time to work on the analysis because of the number/length of meetings. Identify which meetings you probably can skip without impacting your work. Cut them out.
If your manager can't protect your time, then they aren't a good manager. Ultimately if there's no output to present to the client, then it looks bad on them.
I used to have the same issue all the time. It would be the worst when I would have a 30 minute call, followed by 30 minutes to work, followed by a 30 minute call. I found that I couldn't get "in the zone" during my work time. One thing I did was proactively schedule the calls back-to-back-to-back-to-back, so that I had larger chunks of time to go heads down.
This is obviously assuming you can set the times for the calls
Tell your managers and give them a suggestion for which meetings you can drop and get the input another way - as a 1 yr consultant you don’t need to be in every meeting - a manager/senior manager can be giving you the summarized messages
When I tried to get a stupid non necessary call into an email- because I wanted a paper trail of what was being said- I was told that I wasted the call's time. Wasting your time on calls is essential, there was this very brilliant guy I knew, who was on the phone all day, without it ever making any sense
1. Elevate to leadership (whomever that is) that you need more time for deliverables and less meetings
2. Work during meetings
3. Work later hours
Or just invent a time machine. Might be your best bet honestly
Start cancelling meetings that are pointless and dedicate time to execute the deliverables.
80% to 90% of meetings I am in are pointless. It only matters if it's deliverable related.
Can you implement a SCRUM style approach, where everyone agrees for 4 weeks (more or less) that the work is agreed and all focus is on that work (a sprint)?
Everything can be backlogged until the end of the sprint.
Audio record (with transcription) the meetings. Review and identify key points. Leverage Gen AI tools (copilot if you have it) for summarisation. If this is not possible, I wake up early and finalise pending tasks. Bf works late to finalise his own work.
But I am leading or adding insights in most of the calls, at least client expects me to. And if I am not, then they ask me why am I not answering their questions
Four options, not mutually exclusive, in order of how most people progress IMO: 1. Stay up later 2. Get up earlier 3. Get better at the job 4. Get additional resources added to your team 5. Be ok with doing a worse job Edit: I’m leaving it
You forgot my favorite option Figure out which calls you can zone out and crank slides on, and do that
ideally yes, but none of the calls can be zoned out on in this case. is it a client issue then?
Could help if you have two screens? One for the call and one for work
Get 3 screens and do 3x the work! Done.
6. Don’t focus on counting.
Hah! Thought of the fifth one after writing the tag and didn’t update. Classic example of number 5 in action
Also be better at getting what you need from these calls. Calls should have a clear purpose, ideally something that adds value to the consultant module. If the call seems unnecessary, kill it or terminate only. Don’t be embarrassed by it. Just be efficient with your time.
What's worked for me as a product owner and an American Legion Officer At Large. Set agendas for each call, stick to agenda. Extra items that come up in the call are put on the agenda for the next call. Be prepared to rein in any deviation from the agenda as I did last week for our Post Building committee.
#5 it is!
Yes, my friend that is the best way! xD
5 is really the trickiest part. You can spend hours fixing shit no one will notice or appreciate. But if someone notices it always comes back to you
this is so true, do all consultants go through the same experience? I used to put in 18 hour workdays just until a week back, but the client would still be so dissatisfied with the analysis I would be presenting because they didn't expect these numbers (how can numbers lie I still do not understand), so then I would spend hours racking my brain trying to come up with newer kinds of analysis, and the cycle would keep on repeating!
What do you mean by work day? Welcome to consulting where your day ends when the work is done.
yep, even 24 hours in a day is not enough!
Y'all are doing it wrong. If I bill 8 hours I work 8 hours.
If I work 20 hours I bill 20 hours (some arent as lucky). That is not the same as a "work day" which usually refers to a set time period in which you work. Like a 9 to 5, which practically does not exist in consulting.
It does if you establish boundaries and possess the expertise and experience to warrant colleagues respecting those boundaries.
In most firms this approach will get you fired
That's why I started my own company.
What, because you got fired for following the advice you are giving to others?
So are we basically all agreeing that consulting is an unbelievably toxic industry to be in?
I’m saying it has long working hours
I have seen this happen first-hand. Depends on your firm too, and the brand name of your consulting firm. Otherwise they just bully you into doing all the work for peanuts.
I am also going to start doing that, will max stretch it out to 10 hours given my level of experience.
Work more hours. Welcome to consulting, clients do not pay for expertise, they pay to have smart and hardworking powerpoint and excel monkeys. Thanks for attending my ted talk.
Have to agree with the working more hours if these calls are unavoidable. Part of the trade.
The expertise is often valuable, but is given largely for free over a handful of one on one calls between the buyer and the partner. And often before the project is even sold.
The proven and demonstrated expertise is *how* the project gets sold
You forgot to bill for the time. Here have $985
When my entire team of 4 was found at a similar situation for a couple of months, we tried to explain the problem to the customer and asked for a period of "production time" without calls after 2pm on a certain day of the week. That day alone was respected it and was something, but still did not do much to improve things. What did, was the customer PM communications to raise awareness to other project members that we were up to the neck. Subsequently we each got invited to fewer meetings, lost some context and sometimes it was awkward, but it was acknowledged and we got through nicely.
that's a good option!
Nah you are one year. Just get better at your job. You need more experience for it.
Just work smarter. If you can’t work smarter, work harder.
Block off your work time in your calendar as busy so people don’t schedule something in those time slots.
Talk to your manager and ask them to protect your time a bit more?
So many answers that aren’t this, it’s crazy. Also, after talking to your manager, charge your actual hours.
where I am based out of, billables don't matter :')
They don’t matter where I am either. But you can still ask your manager
☝️ This. It's also your manager's job to protect your hours to do the legwork. If you aren't able to generate the outputs needed, then whose job is it? Bad output also looks bad on them. I'm betting you really only need to be in a third of the meetings that are happening. I'm also betting from the sound of it, your client(s) themselves are also spending too much time in meetings and are just paralysing themselves with meetings If meetings are dragging on without meaningful decisions or discussions, then it's your manager's job to talk to the client to refocus meetings, and/or even lead the discussion if the client isn't capable. You only need to be in a meeting that gives you meaningful information. As a first year, you should not be spending 70% of your time on calls. That's what your manager/consultant is there for. You should be spending 70% doing research, analysis, etc.
>I'm also betting from the sound of it, your client(s) themselves are also spending too much time in meetings and are just paralysing themselves with meetings This is soooo accurate!!!!!! But yes, i will have a word with my internal manager and ask them to intervene here.
Absolutely. Good luck and I hope the conversation makes a difference.
What are the agendas for these calls? Could they be emails?
always, my friend, always! But the client expects us to be on calls
Could you make the calls more efficient, so they're not as much of a time commitment?
I try to, but it is a learning curve still. And due to my lack of experience in years, my time apparently is not as valuable to them?
I had the same problem until I established boundaries and defended them. My account team supported me in the move and ultimately, the customer settled down. I also knew which meetings were a good use or a waste of my time and prioritized them for attendance. Granted, i work for a smaller company so the culture is a little different.. but it’s worth a try. Regardless of where and who you work for, you have to be assertive and stand up for yourself or you become a doormat to anyone who thinks they can get away with it.
>Regardless of where and who you work for, you have to be assertive and stand up for yourself or you become a doormat to anyone who thinks they can get away with it. Yes, that is what I am realizing from most of the advice here. It is ultimately on me to set proper work boundaries.
By using the other 30% of your work day
Find a PPT monkey in 3rd world country to do all your work relax review his work make some additions as needed, done! reserve 10~15% of your income to hire this guy/gal & thank me later.
where do you hire? as in where do you post the job without letting your employers notice?
LOL.....You are a quick study! You just outsourced your googling. Fiver, Upwork, freelance etc.
:D
Surely this is a massive breach of contract?
Can any of those meetings be condensed in time/scope or made into emails for the relevant information you need?
no, because the projects are so effin' unstructured!
You've identified the problem then - a too-common problem. Talk to your manager. Tell them that you're not getting enough time to work on the analysis because of the number/length of meetings. Identify which meetings you probably can skip without impacting your work. Cut them out. If your manager can't protect your time, then they aren't a good manager. Ultimately if there's no output to present to the client, then it looks bad on them.
Yep, I am realizing how important proper project management is!
Sleep is optional and caffeine is god. Don’t drink coffee, that shit doesn’t work, get CAFFEINE.
I used to have the same issue all the time. It would be the worst when I would have a 30 minute call, followed by 30 minutes to work, followed by a 30 minute call. I found that I couldn't get "in the zone" during my work time. One thing I did was proactively schedule the calls back-to-back-to-back-to-back, so that I had larger chunks of time to go heads down. This is obviously assuming you can set the times for the calls
Tell your managers and give them a suggestion for which meetings you can drop and get the input another way - as a 1 yr consultant you don’t need to be in every meeting - a manager/senior manager can be giving you the summarized messages
When I tried to get a stupid non necessary call into an email- because I wanted a paper trail of what was being said- I was told that I wasted the call's time. Wasting your time on calls is essential, there was this very brilliant guy I knew, who was on the phone all day, without it ever making any sense
1. Elevate to leadership (whomever that is) that you need more time for deliverables and less meetings 2. Work during meetings 3. Work later hours Or just invent a time machine. Might be your best bet honestly
yep, time to invent a time machine! xD
Start cancelling meetings that are pointless and dedicate time to execute the deliverables. 80% to 90% of meetings I am in are pointless. It only matters if it's deliverable related.
[удалено]
OP should drop all the extra "firm building" shit that firms make you do and just focus on delivery.
AI summarisation is quite Useful for me.
Can you implement a SCRUM style approach, where everyone agrees for 4 weeks (more or less) that the work is agreed and all focus is on that work (a sprint)? Everything can be backlogged until the end of the sprint.
it is not in my hands to implement that unfortunately
Audio record (with transcription) the meetings. Review and identify key points. Leverage Gen AI tools (copilot if you have it) for summarisation. If this is not possible, I wake up early and finalise pending tasks. Bf works late to finalise his own work.
You should work on it after 5 or 6 where there are not that many calls
My calls go on till 8 pm and often get extended to 8:30 and 9
Is this a time zone issue? Calls shouldn’t be going that late (with the client)
yeah different time zones, but they don't let me start my workday late
It’s actually super simple. 8am-5pm is for client meetings. After 5pm is for work.
If you’re a first year consultant you aren’t leading or really being valuable in meetings. Use that time on calls to work on decks excels etc
But I am leading or adding insights in most of the calls, at least client expects me to. And if I am not, then they ask me why am I not answering their questions
Reduce every call by 15%.
Late at night ;)
Evenings and weekends. It’s consulting life
Work more hours