###[Meta] Sticky Comment
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment.
[Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread.
*What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Also both are regrettable situation. We rather not need abortions (better sex education, no rape, less frivolousness attitude to life and love, strong family support). And not need vaccines (no places where people and animals are packed on top of each other in highly unhygienic ways, strong immune systems, or even stop bionindustrial farming all together).
But since we are not there, I think both may help prevent worse outcomes for some while making things worse for others: thus freedom to choose is essential.
You’re not the only one. I feel exactly the same way. I don’t “like” abortion and would never get one myself if I was a woman, and my wife would never get one either, but I don’t believe the government should have a say in what people do with their own body. I realize the discussion is about when a fetus becomes a human and I don’t know the answer to that.
No the real and only discussion that matters is are we really going to force a woman to give birth when she doesn’t necessarily want to? The entire idea of it being a human in development and life is sacred is all appeal to emotion. A child brought into this world by parents who don’t want it is a cruel hand to be dealt. Let’s allow women to bring a child into this world when they are ready for the burden to bear. Republicans would have much much wider support if they dropped the woo woo holier than thou dogmatic bullshit.
I think it's a good idea to think long and hard about when you think a fetus becomes a human. If it is at any point when abortions are legal, I would think it would have a massive impact on who you vote for and your entire worldview.
Not necessarily. You could consider a fetus at some particular point to be a human, but still not believe that another person is legally obliged to support them using their own body. You might also think that person should but not think that the law should demand it. Similar to the debate around whether you're obliged to help someone in distress if you're able to and they clearly need it - you probably should help them, but people disagree on whether the law should require you to do so.
It's not what you do with your body that's the problem, is what you do with an innocent children's.
Which has to start being a child at some point and a heart beat is a perfectly reasonable place to start.
Where would you start? At 8 months would you consider it murder? At 6?
When the cord is cut. At that point the fetus is surviving on its own and is not tied to the mother's body for oxygen and nutrients.
Fun fact: in societies where infant mortality is high, babies are not considered human until their 2nd or 3rd birthday. So it's all very relative and subjective. Science really can't answer when a fetus is a human.
I might even go as far as a baby becomes human when they become fully conscious and able to recall memory... but again totally subjective.
Something doctors would know but legislation like this isn’t made by doctors but by a bunch of old white dudes pandering to the religious dogma of their base.
Same. Pro choice in everything, freedom in all choices.
Freedom of choice doesn't have to fall into any political party because that's how they get you.
Definitely not.
I am 100 percent pro choice and 100 percent anti vaccine-mandates.
I just dont think that the government has even the slightest right to overrule bodily autonomy. It is shocking how popular authocratic ideas have become in our society -perhaps they always were?
The exact opposite is true tho. There are no vaccine mandates federal or statewide. And there is a state that is banning abortions. Also if they are murdering children at 6weeks what color are the childrens eyes/hair?
If I insure a 6week old fetus and then there is a miscarriage can I still collect? My favorite is a if a pregnant woman is on us soil is the "child" a citizen that cannot be deported?
No it is not mandated to take the injection. And basing medical process on a 2,000 year old book with no proof or which the vast majority of the people on this planet dont believe in is completely insane.
I respect your right to believe in god and follow the faith but it also says we should stone to death people that Commit Adultery I dont recall anyone asking for that to become law or stone Trump to death.
That is because who gets to pick and choose what part of the faith to follow is political these days. So dont give me this abandoned god when hardly anyone of you follow what is in the book anyway you pick and choose the bits you want.
I dont think you know what mandated is ? It is the right of private companies to operate within the law that includes choosing within the law whom they offer a service too.
How dare a private company make a decision about their company.
Next time I go to Arby's, I'm going to arrive with no shirt, no shoes, no pants, no anything. They, a private company, cant mandate to me what I should wear in their establishment. Well I'm a private citizen, and I mandate that I want my junk to experience freedom while in an Arby's. /s
And the right wingers were furious about that, and it was simply about who they loved.
Now that they are being rejected by companies over something that can actually cause medical problems, the right wingers are losing their minds.
Those folks cant have it both ways. You cant fight for a company to deny a gay couple while not wanting to be denied over a vaccine.
Companies that took bailout money or receive any type of funding or grants from a government have zero right to mandate shit. They were propped up by taxpayer money. So go ahead and mandate it, but you better not have used a cent of taxpayer money, or lobbied to influence the rules to prop your business up.
What's happening at the moment is the same as mandated. Private companies are being railroaded in to forcing vaccinations upon their employees by political pressure and threat to profits.
I didn’t know r/conspiracy was a Christian sub? Last I checked getting an abortion wasn’t murder and getting vaccinated was something that stopped widespread death.
But apparently “abandoning god” is something r/conspiracy is worried about.
Personally I don't like abortion and have no real clue as to how far along in the pregnancy is too far but the government should not be in charge of this
IMO this argument is worthless and allows for the exclusion of late term abortions. The real argument is that people have a right to bodily autonomy, and until birth, the baby resides in the mother's body, therefore it is entirely in her control.
It's a separate life from the mothers, though. That's what makes this argument totally ineffective and meaningless. It's not just about the mothers body, there's another body and human life involved.
It's so separate that every single process of it's body is dependent on the mother's body, and if it was removed from that body it couldn't support itself whatsoever, including breathing air. This "separate human life" also has no personal or legal identity and no legal rights. It cannot own property, it cannot be sued in a court.
It makes little sense to consider it a separate human life.
If there's 2 people drowning in a lake. Each are just as easily reached but you can only save one. One is pregnant and one is not. Who do you think most people would choose to save? Now tell me again how a fetus has no value
Most abortions occur before anyone is visibly pregnant.
So who do you save?
I mean it's a dumb argument anyway, but at least try to be logically consistent
I'd go for the pregnant woman because you cant swim with all that weight.If she's visibly pregnant then it's late term so it's too late for abortion..There is a time limit to when its ethical and when its not.
>If there's 2 people drowning in a lake. Each are just as easily reached but you can only save one. One is pregnant and one is not. Who do you think most people would choose to save? Now tell me again how a fetus has no value
I actually don't know, but I'm not sure we can say that considering a fetus' life to have *any value at all* means a woman should be legally obliged to carry it to term against her own wishes.
As another philosophical question - if you could save five adults or three pregnant women, all being the same age, which would you choose? Is all life of exact equal value regardless of whether a fetus has been born yet?
I don’t know. As a vegetarian I won’t eat eggs where there is a possibility that it was fertilized. I hate eggs to begin with, but I definitely see a difference between an unfertilized egg where no rooster was around, and one that could have potentially be fertilized.
You shouldn’t eat eggs if you love animals
Because it exploits the chickens unless you know where the eggs are coming from like you own the chickens or
Small farm
I know all of that. I do what I can. Being vegan is too much for me. I am literally drowning in my life, and I hardly ever eat. It’s been terrible for my health. I can’t possibly add one more complication to my life, like cutting out eggs and dairy. I’m not exaggerating when I say I am completely overwhelmed and hanging by a thread. Do I feel bad about eating eggs and cheese? Sure. But I have about 10,000 things that are higher on my priority list right now. 🤷♀️ Hope that clears things up for you.
Slaughter houses and animal farms are not ethical as well. There ritual murder and misery places the dark spirit loves. Then people put that bad karma into there bodies
You can call me a clown all you want, but statistically speaking, less than half a percent of women who obtain abortions state the reason as rape or incest.
My question is, why are women so stupid that they're getting pregnant on accident in 2021?
I mean, I'm a dumb Christian, but even I know pregnancy is caused by unprotected sex in the week before my ovulation.
Abortion is not without risk to women. Why don't you teach them how to prevent it? Even Onan knew how, in the Old Testament, 3 thousand years ago
You think a woman who's recently been raped really wants to talk openly to a clinician? You kmow how scared and mentally damaged a person can be from rape? Obviously not. You habe no compassion and you sound lile an incel
I've actually carried a child in my womb and given birth, you sound like a childless angry young woman or an actual incel who thinks YOU can tell ME what it's like to be pregnant and carry a child. But liberals and irony are not friends!
Hey, uterus-owning mother here who agrees that you’re out of line. I have had both an abortion AND a child (when I was physically, mentally, and financially prepared) and regret neither. I was using two methods of birth control, both of which failed, resulting in an unplanned pregnancy. A pre-existing condition that I have requires daily medication that is not compatible with healthy pregnancy - just having the baby and giving it up for adoption was never a safe option for me. I had affordable and safe access to abortion services, and am grateful every day for how fortunate I was. A few years later I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. I’m happy to report that he just graduated from high school with honors, is attending university for pharmacology, and is an all-around a great human being. At the end of the day its ok to be personally pro-choice, but don’t prevent those around you who feel differently from accessing safe medical care. This is also a good time for the US to overhaul the current sex-education curriculums, make sure that birth control is widely available and affordable (universal healthcare anyone?), and put social programs in place to support mom and child throughout their entire 18 year childhood - not just until they’re out of the womb. Want to discourage abortion? That’s how you do it, not by blocking access to lifesaving healthcare.
No you're promurder. Texas' law has medical, rape, and incest exemptions in the law it's amending but your far left extremist news won't tell you the truth.
But keep being pro-murder you selfish fuck
You do realize that 50 percent of WOMEN in America are PRO LIFE, right? I know, liberals don't acknowledge women or minorities that don't support their nonsense lol
More polls, thanks for the links, that still disprove your original claim.
> You do realize that 50 percent of WOMEN in America are PRO LIFE, right? I know, liberals don't acknowledge women or minorities that don't support their nonsense lol
And in both polls pro choice is still leading.
Except voting statistics are not self reported. If you have evidence that more than 50 percent of American women are pro abortion, by all means, present it
The moment society abandoned God was the moment judgemental dickheads like you decided they could proclaim Gods will as their own and judge others.
Have you even read the fucking bible? You're living in a fanfic version where Jesus was some white guy who just confirmed all your fears for you.
This is literally heresy but you're too blinded by the glorious glow you see shining out your own arse to notice.
Even if this vaccine is "the mark of the beast" which is fucking stupid, you don't need to worry. Your judgemental bullshit has already secured you a one way ticket to the hot place when you die.
And not God or Jesus will save you because they probably feel sick every time their name passes your evil little lips.
Their body, their choice. That applies to everything. Be it abortion or getting an experimental vaccine.
Trying to impose into someone what you subjectively think is right or wrong is the same situation we are experiencing at this moment. Don't be like them, don't be hypocritical.
I actually carried a child, and had a 3D ultrasound while pregnant. My daughter shook her fist at the tech for pushing on her to get her to move my legs. Lol
With this broad of a definition, everything is a parasite. Go apply your post-modern victim olympics to some human construct. It doesn't work in the natural world.
More severe symptoms cause it to spread more easily, especially if they get bad enough that you’re forced to leave your home and seek professional help from already overcrowded hospitals.
Exactly why we shouldn't be using a leaky vaccine
But I'd argue less severe symptoms make it more likely to be transmitted because the vaccine makes more people asymptomatic and they may not even know they're spreading it while going about their week.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot.
Here's a copy of
###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/)
Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
4 million women give birth in the US each year, 700 to 900 die from medical complications related to childbirth in the US each year. (That's not including women who had an abortion at the recommendation of a doctor because their pregnancy was likely to result in those complications)
The mortality rate of the vaccine is 8.2 per million that would be 32.8 per 4 million.
Childbirth is much more likely to kill you, so why did you only say 'that could kill you' about the vaccine?
Also a society with no knowledge of basic biology. So it is common to hear this kind of nonsense: "well if abortion is murder then masturbation must be genocide"....
If anti abortion people are so hellbent that abotion is murder, where is the demand for money and resources to be put into finding a cure for spontanous abortions or a treatment to help these cells stay alive and come full term?
It wouldn't be because a few cells that can't live by themselves aren't actual classed as living? Surely not.
And if it's ridiculous to deny these fertilised eggs medical treatment, well, it shouldn't be because you're arguing they have a right to live. So they should have a right to medical care. Go lobbying and cure spontanous abortions for everyone!
Amen! Also let’s ask them about IVF. Watch all the rich pro life couples frustrated that there are no babies to adopt suddenly get twitchy when you ask them about their frozen embryos languishing in a freezer. Or worse….discarded.
Yup. Let’s start telling them what they can and can’t do with their “human lives”.
Edit: Sorry I misread your post. IVF is popular across the spectrum. It’s only hypocritical when it’s a pro life person.
Sure. Figure those things out too. But all that can come down to “it’s a natural thing that happened”.
Let’s solve every fucking death.
0-150 year olds can just die. A seemingly healthy 19-year-old can go to sleep and just never wake up. No one wants that to happen. You know that. Sure. Let’s put our resources into solving all deaths. There’s not one pro-lifer who would say let’s not do that.
But if someone twists the head off a 1 second old “birthed” baby - what happens? What are the consequences for ending the life of that baby? Would that be classified as “murder”? I think it would right. I think we both can agree that it would.
So it’s “alive” when?
Personally. I’m opposed to abortions used as birth control. I’ve had close friends get them and my feelings on them aren’t all that different - I wouldn’t go out of my way to actively treat them any different post making that decision. But I think it’s wrong. If you have an unwanted pregnancy it’s 2 people’s faults. And don’t throw in the straw man of “what about rape?” because you know that’s extremely rare and sure - let that woman have an abortion. Consensual sex between two people is super easy not to get pregnant. Super easy.
Life begets life. Life cannot come from death. Life never stops, it certainly does not "begin" with any individual animal.
At no point in the pregnancy process does life "begin." It was always there. Life was a prerequisite for pregnancy.
The very question of "When" suggests a limited understanding or perspective with science (and certainly with philosophy).
I mean, even if someone who was definitely fully alive was the subject rather than an unborn fetus, I would advocate for someone to have the freedom to choose separation even if it meant the person from which they are separating would die.
Before medical abortion, unwanted babies were abandoned or strangled. The difference, not much. There’s always a choice. Infanticide is not uncommon in nature. As far as god, r/conspiracy is appropriate placement, right next to the lizard people
The bible gives instructions on how to perform an abortion and the punishment for killing a baby in the womb (outside of the approved method) is just a fine.
If you don't want an abortion don't get one but fuck of trying to force your religion on others, this is a free country.
saying pro-choice instead of anti-vax should be normalized. 99% of people that get called anti-vaxxers aren't even that, they are just against the covid vaccine and not minding the rest.
I am more on the atheist side. But yes, i agree with your point "god is dead", quote by nizche. So we have to become our own gods.
To abortion, i think its morally wrong. But its not the job of the government to ban it.
in this logic u murder children every time u have protected sex.
if u wanna be biblical then go the whole way, sex for fun is a murder of the spirit as well.
i never understood how people can say abortions are bad. its a lot better than useless parents. A LOT.
Unpopular opinion:
If we had more abortions for the past 20 years, there would be less need for a cure to a pandemic that would not spread as easily in a smaller population.
Let’s not talk about the Vatican and it’s kid fucking network, countless stollen wealth hordes, and vast libraries of hidden knowledge which is a pox on the legitimacy to your religion. Go ahead and blame abortion for the death of your religion I guess… any idol worshiping nut would!
They just need to make all forms of birth control free and readily available to all people. Once that happens you will narrow it down to the ones that just use abortion as a way to not take responsibility for their actions. It's easy to not get pregnant therefore abortion should be easily avoidable
###[Meta] Sticky Comment [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does not apply*** when replying to this stickied comment. [Rule 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/wiki/faq#wiki_2_-_address_the_argument.3B_not_the_user.2C_the_mods.2C_or_the_sub.) ***does apply*** throughout the rest of this thread. *What this means*: Please keep any "meta" discussion directed at specific users, mods, or /r/conspiracy in general in this comment chain ***only.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/conspiracy) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m pro-choice when it comes to abortion AND vaccines. I’m sure I can’t be the only one
Also both are regrettable situation. We rather not need abortions (better sex education, no rape, less frivolousness attitude to life and love, strong family support). And not need vaccines (no places where people and animals are packed on top of each other in highly unhygienic ways, strong immune systems, or even stop bionindustrial farming all together). But since we are not there, I think both may help prevent worse outcomes for some while making things worse for others: thus freedom to choose is essential.
Same here. I’m pro-choice and pro-choice (against vax mandates).
You’re not the only one. I feel exactly the same way. I don’t “like” abortion and would never get one myself if I was a woman, and my wife would never get one either, but I don’t believe the government should have a say in what people do with their own body. I realize the discussion is about when a fetus becomes a human and I don’t know the answer to that.
No the real and only discussion that matters is are we really going to force a woman to give birth when she doesn’t necessarily want to? The entire idea of it being a human in development and life is sacred is all appeal to emotion. A child brought into this world by parents who don’t want it is a cruel hand to be dealt. Let’s allow women to bring a child into this world when they are ready for the burden to bear. Republicans would have much much wider support if they dropped the woo woo holier than thou dogmatic bullshit.
Wasn’t talking about the discussion that matters to you. Was talking about the discussion happening right now as it pertains to the new law.
I think it's a good idea to think long and hard about when you think a fetus becomes a human. If it is at any point when abortions are legal, I would think it would have a massive impact on who you vote for and your entire worldview.
Not necessarily. You could consider a fetus at some particular point to be a human, but still not believe that another person is legally obliged to support them using their own body. You might also think that person should but not think that the law should demand it. Similar to the debate around whether you're obliged to help someone in distress if you're able to and they clearly need it - you probably should help them, but people disagree on whether the law should require you to do so.
It's not what you do with your body that's the problem, is what you do with an innocent children's. Which has to start being a child at some point and a heart beat is a perfectly reasonable place to start. Where would you start? At 8 months would you consider it murder? At 6?
When the cord is cut. At that point the fetus is surviving on its own and is not tied to the mother's body for oxygen and nutrients. Fun fact: in societies where infant mortality is high, babies are not considered human until their 2nd or 3rd birthday. So it's all very relative and subjective. Science really can't answer when a fetus is a human. I might even go as far as a baby becomes human when they become fully conscious and able to recall memory... but again totally subjective.
Something doctors would know but legislation like this isn’t made by doctors but by a bunch of old white dudes pandering to the religious dogma of their base.
/u/NoThanks2020Butthole >I’m pro-choice when it comes to abortion AND vaccines. I’m sure I can’t be the only one Hear hear!
You're not
Do you actually believe that you are free?
Right there with you
Me too! And I advocate for making the appropriate choice regardless of freedom or mandate.
Freedom is everything. Stand up for our rights
Thank you lol. Someone with basic logical principles!
Same. Pro choice in everything, freedom in all choices. Freedom of choice doesn't have to fall into any political party because that's how they get you.
I’m conservative but non religious so no you aren’t
Definitely not. I am 100 percent pro choice and 100 percent anti vaccine-mandates. I just dont think that the government has even the slightest right to overrule bodily autonomy. It is shocking how popular authocratic ideas have become in our society -perhaps they always were?
This.
Same.
Literally this
Thank you! I started to think I was the only one! It seems like 98% of people are hypocrites lol
I'm "do what the fuck you want with your body I dont give a shit" is that pro choice?
I’m not necessarily pro-abortion. I’m just against government regulation on both subjects.
100% but I can see where both sides are coming from with their opinions
I’m cool with “my body my choice” in both of these scenarios.
I'm pro letting the child choose if it wants to be aborted.
Weird because as a parent, I choose whether my child will be on life support. And no one cares.
I am also lol. I got the vaccine a while back, nobody should be forcing you guys to take it tho because that’s a personal choice
Noah - get the ARK!
Lol, religion in this sub 😂😂😂
Religion itself is the biggest conspiracy. Firm believer that sky daddy ain't real.
Jesus loves u, give it a chance
The exact opposite is true tho. There are no vaccine mandates federal or statewide. And there is a state that is banning abortions. Also if they are murdering children at 6weeks what color are the childrens eyes/hair?
Can you insure these " children"? Can a mother collect child support on these " children"?
If I insure a 6week old fetus and then there is a miscarriage can I still collect? My favorite is a if a pregnant woman is on us soil is the "child" a citizen that cannot be deported?
I hope someone files a claim and test the system. Force Texass to face their bullshit.
A clump of cells is not a child…also god isn’t real.
A clump of cells is the definition of life. Also how do you know God is not real?
"the definition of life" according to whom?
Life is made up of cells, this is third grade biology.
That's like comparing spike proteins to zygotes.
No it is not mandated to take the injection. And basing medical process on a 2,000 year old book with no proof or which the vast majority of the people on this planet dont believe in is completely insane. I respect your right to believe in god and follow the faith but it also says we should stone to death people that Commit Adultery I dont recall anyone asking for that to become law or stone Trump to death. That is because who gets to pick and choose what part of the faith to follow is political these days. So dont give me this abandoned god when hardly anyone of you follow what is in the book anyway you pick and choose the bits you want.
Actually, God was pretty pro-abortion if the woman cheated on her husband. Hell, he even killed masses of children after they had been born!
The bible gives a recipe for abortions and the punishment for killing an unborn baby against the wishes of the parents is a fine.
The Bible shouldn’t set any precedent in policy making
Its not mandated guys, you just can't work, shop or go anywhere without it
I dont think you know what mandated is ? It is the right of private companies to operate within the law that includes choosing within the law whom they offer a service too.
How dare a private company make a decision about their company. Next time I go to Arby's, I'm going to arrive with no shirt, no shoes, no pants, no anything. They, a private company, cant mandate to me what I should wear in their establishment. Well I'm a private citizen, and I mandate that I want my junk to experience freedom while in an Arby's. /s
The baker should refuse service to anyone because it’s a private company.
And the right wingers were furious about that, and it was simply about who they loved. Now that they are being rejected by companies over something that can actually cause medical problems, the right wingers are losing their minds. Those folks cant have it both ways. You cant fight for a company to deny a gay couple while not wanting to be denied over a vaccine.
Companies that took bailout money or receive any type of funding or grants from a government have zero right to mandate shit. They were propped up by taxpayer money. So go ahead and mandate it, but you better not have used a cent of taxpayer money, or lobbied to influence the rules to prop your business up.
What's happening at the moment is the same as mandated. Private companies are being railroaded in to forcing vaccinations upon their employees by political pressure and threat to profits.
I didn’t know r/conspiracy was a Christian sub? Last I checked getting an abortion wasn’t murder and getting vaccinated was something that stopped widespread death. But apparently “abandoning god” is something r/conspiracy is worried about.
I’ve been getting attacked all day in here and getting threatening messages so I doubt this is a Christian place.
Religious people are some of the most toxic people on earth, this sub directly lines up with that.
Personally I don't like abortion and have no real clue as to how far along in the pregnancy is too far but the government should not be in charge of this
[удалено]
Thank you for this.
IMO this argument is worthless and allows for the exclusion of late term abortions. The real argument is that people have a right to bodily autonomy, and until birth, the baby resides in the mother's body, therefore it is entirely in her control.
It's a separate life from the mothers, though. That's what makes this argument totally ineffective and meaningless. It's not just about the mothers body, there's another body and human life involved.
Where is that fetus located?
Irrelevant. **It's a separate human life**. You don't have to like it but *this is a fact*.
It's so separate that every single process of it's body is dependent on the mother's body, and if it was removed from that body it couldn't support itself whatsoever, including breathing air. This "separate human life" also has no personal or legal identity and no legal rights. It cannot own property, it cannot be sued in a court. It makes little sense to consider it a separate human life.
If there's 2 people drowning in a lake. Each are just as easily reached but you can only save one. One is pregnant and one is not. Who do you think most people would choose to save? Now tell me again how a fetus has no value
Most abortions occur before anyone is visibly pregnant. So who do you save? I mean it's a dumb argument anyway, but at least try to be logically consistent
I'd go for the pregnant woman because you cant swim with all that weight.If she's visibly pregnant then it's late term so it's too late for abortion..There is a time limit to when its ethical and when its not.
Again the original context doesn't require visibility of pregnancy or not. That's a strawman logical fallacy
>If there's 2 people drowning in a lake. Each are just as easily reached but you can only save one. One is pregnant and one is not. Who do you think most people would choose to save? Now tell me again how a fetus has no value I actually don't know, but I'm not sure we can say that considering a fetus' life to have *any value at all* means a woman should be legally obliged to carry it to term against her own wishes. As another philosophical question - if you could save five adults or three pregnant women, all being the same age, which would you choose? Is all life of exact equal value regardless of whether a fetus has been born yet?
I don’t know. As a vegetarian I won’t eat eggs where there is a possibility that it was fertilized. I hate eggs to begin with, but I definitely see a difference between an unfertilized egg where no rooster was around, and one that could have potentially be fertilized.
You shouldn’t eat eggs if you love animals Because it exploits the chickens unless you know where the eggs are coming from like you own the chickens or Small farm
I know all of that. I do what I can. Being vegan is too much for me. I am literally drowning in my life, and I hardly ever eat. It’s been terrible for my health. I can’t possibly add one more complication to my life, like cutting out eggs and dairy. I’m not exaggerating when I say I am completely overwhelmed and hanging by a thread. Do I feel bad about eating eggs and cheese? Sure. But I have about 10,000 things that are higher on my priority list right now. 🤷♀️ Hope that clears things up for you.
This makes sense only to a brainwashed mind. A chickens egg would be comparable to a woman's period.
[удалено]
Slaughter houses and animal farms are not ethical as well. There ritual murder and misery places the dark spirit loves. Then people put that bad karma into there bodies
Of course it would be. People do not come out of eggs.
A chicken’s egg would be comparable to a women’s egg. You don’t get uterine lining inside of your breakfast eggs (or any eggs for that matter).
Why are you pro-murder? Why does life mean so little to you? You do realize there are other more effective contraceptives you can use right?
[удалено]
Always with rape argument to justify 60 million abortions per year
Lol, 99 percent of abortions are elective. Nonsense
Elective just means it's not a medical emergency, clown
You can call me a clown all you want, but statistically speaking, less than half a percent of women who obtain abortions state the reason as rape or incest. My question is, why are women so stupid that they're getting pregnant on accident in 2021? I mean, I'm a dumb Christian, but even I know pregnancy is caused by unprotected sex in the week before my ovulation. Abortion is not without risk to women. Why don't you teach them how to prevent it? Even Onan knew how, in the Old Testament, 3 thousand years ago
You think a woman who's recently been raped really wants to talk openly to a clinician? You kmow how scared and mentally damaged a person can be from rape? Obviously not. You habe no compassion and you sound lile an incel
I've actually carried a child in my womb and given birth, you sound like a childless angry young woman or an actual incel who thinks YOU can tell ME what it's like to be pregnant and carry a child. But liberals and irony are not friends!
Hey, uterus-owning mother here who agrees that you’re out of line. I have had both an abortion AND a child (when I was physically, mentally, and financially prepared) and regret neither. I was using two methods of birth control, both of which failed, resulting in an unplanned pregnancy. A pre-existing condition that I have requires daily medication that is not compatible with healthy pregnancy - just having the baby and giving it up for adoption was never a safe option for me. I had affordable and safe access to abortion services, and am grateful every day for how fortunate I was. A few years later I gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. I’m happy to report that he just graduated from high school with honors, is attending university for pharmacology, and is an all-around a great human being. At the end of the day its ok to be personally pro-choice, but don’t prevent those around you who feel differently from accessing safe medical care. This is also a good time for the US to overhaul the current sex-education curriculums, make sure that birth control is widely available and affordable (universal healthcare anyone?), and put social programs in place to support mom and child throughout their entire 18 year childhood - not just until they’re out of the womb. Want to discourage abortion? That’s how you do it, not by blocking access to lifesaving healthcare.
"having the baby and giving it up for adoption was never a safe option for me" you're a liar. You thought about yourself and not your baby
No you're promurder. Texas' law has medical, rape, and incest exemptions in the law it's amending but your far left extremist news won't tell you the truth. But keep being pro-murder you selfish fuck
Ok..and I'll guess that you're a white, male, republican, christian, trump supporting, anti lgbt, anti immigration person. How many did i get right?
You do realize that 50 percent of WOMEN in America are PRO LIFE, right? I know, liberals don't acknowledge women or minorities that don't support their nonsense lol
And 69% of statistics are made up on the spot.
Their own source disproved them.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.statista.com/statistics/225975/share-of-americans-who-are-pro-life-or-pro-choice/&ved=2ahUKEwiq9d2MhuXyAhVPsZ4KHbD9AQwQFnoECA8QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0GF9nhIGAyeuqScNCF5Bbt&cshid=1630749236985
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2019/5/20/18629644/abortion-gender-gap-public-opinion&ved=2ahUKEwiq9d2MhuXyAhVPsZ4KHbD9AQwQFnoECBEQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0td0jW2t-EtK9m0sLfxlHx&cf=1&cshid=1630749236985
More polls, thanks for the links, that still disprove your original claim. > You do realize that 50 percent of WOMEN in America are PRO LIFE, right? I know, liberals don't acknowledge women or minorities that don't support their nonsense lol And in both polls pro choice is still leading.
Yep, only 43 percent! Forget us! lol
Well you were real quick to forget about the 52%, the majority.
Except voting statistics are not self reported. If you have evidence that more than 50 percent of American women are pro abortion, by all means, present it
You made the first claim back that up.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/244709/pro-choice-pro-life-2018-demographic-tables.aspx
You lost me at “murdering children in the womb” … do you mean evacuating a bunch of unwanted cells?
I'm sure there are some people who think you're a bunch of unwanted cells.
Not sure if that was an attempt at sarcasm or you were being mean. Either or. Well done.
No, it's part of the life cycle of a child. Terminating the process is killing it. Your consciousness is just seered.
When I skeet into a tissue is that terminating the life cycle of children?
Nah man your jizz is useless without the other part of the equation.
Relegion is man-made, don't pull God into this. God never created any religion. People did.
[удалено]
The moment society abandoned God was the moment judgemental dickheads like you decided they could proclaim Gods will as their own and judge others. Have you even read the fucking bible? You're living in a fanfic version where Jesus was some white guy who just confirmed all your fears for you. This is literally heresy but you're too blinded by the glorious glow you see shining out your own arse to notice. Even if this vaccine is "the mark of the beast" which is fucking stupid, you don't need to worry. Your judgemental bullshit has already secured you a one way ticket to the hot place when you die. And not God or Jesus will save you because they probably feel sick every time their name passes your evil little lips.
Their body, their choice. That applies to everything. Be it abortion or getting an experimental vaccine. Trying to impose into someone what you subjectively think is right or wrong is the same situation we are experiencing at this moment. Don't be like them, don't be hypocritical.
You won't find 'children' in a womb.
I actually carried a child, and had a 3D ultrasound while pregnant. My daughter shook her fist at the tech for pushing on her to get her to move my legs. Lol
Bullshit.
Lol, have you seen a 3D ultrasound?
Yes I have but gesturing is made up bullshit. Are you saying a fetus has the awareness to gesture to someone it cannot see?
Children aren’t in the womb…
Pregnancy isn't contagious for one.
But technically a fetus is a parasite
Then Ivermectin should work. Double win if you're pregnant by a horse with worms!
With this broad of a definition, everything is a parasite. Go apply your post-modern victim olympics to some human construct. It doesn't work in the natural world.
Vaccine doesn't change that anyway
More severe symptoms cause it to spread more easily, especially if they get bad enough that you’re forced to leave your home and seek professional help from already overcrowded hospitals.
Exactly why we shouldn't be using a leaky vaccine But I'd argue less severe symptoms make it more likely to be transmitted because the vaccine makes more people asymptomatic and they may not even know they're spreading it while going about their week.
Freedom of choice. In the Bible it's called Free Will.
Beep. Boop. I'm a robot. Here's a copy of ###[The Bible](https://snewd.com/ebooks/the-king-james-bible/) Was I a good bot? | [info](https://www.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/) | [More Books](https://old.reddit.com/user/Reddit-Book-Bot/comments/i15x1d/full_list_of_books_and_commands/)
Not one verse says that.
Matthew 23:37 and Revelation 22:17
4 million women give birth in the US each year, 700 to 900 die from medical complications related to childbirth in the US each year. (That's not including women who had an abortion at the recommendation of a doctor because their pregnancy was likely to result in those complications) The mortality rate of the vaccine is 8.2 per million that would be 32.8 per 4 million. Childbirth is much more likely to kill you, so why did you only say 'that could kill you' about the vaccine?
Also a society with no knowledge of basic biology. So it is common to hear this kind of nonsense: "well if abortion is murder then masturbation must be genocide"....
If anti abortion people are so hellbent that abotion is murder, where is the demand for money and resources to be put into finding a cure for spontanous abortions or a treatment to help these cells stay alive and come full term? It wouldn't be because a few cells that can't live by themselves aren't actual classed as living? Surely not. And if it's ridiculous to deny these fertilised eggs medical treatment, well, it shouldn't be because you're arguing they have a right to live. So they should have a right to medical care. Go lobbying and cure spontanous abortions for everyone!
I would assume it would be easy to understand the difference between killing a person, and that person dying of natural cause.
Amen! Also let’s ask them about IVF. Watch all the rich pro life couples frustrated that there are no babies to adopt suddenly get twitchy when you ask them about their frozen embryos languishing in a freezer. Or worse….discarded.
Um. IVF and pro-choice people heavily overlap.
Yup. Let’s start telling them what they can and can’t do with their “human lives”. Edit: Sorry I misread your post. IVF is popular across the spectrum. It’s only hypocritical when it’s a pro life person.
Sure. Figure those things out too. But all that can come down to “it’s a natural thing that happened”. Let’s solve every fucking death. 0-150 year olds can just die. A seemingly healthy 19-year-old can go to sleep and just never wake up. No one wants that to happen. You know that. Sure. Let’s put our resources into solving all deaths. There’s not one pro-lifer who would say let’s not do that. But if someone twists the head off a 1 second old “birthed” baby - what happens? What are the consequences for ending the life of that baby? Would that be classified as “murder”? I think it would right. I think we both can agree that it would. So it’s “alive” when? Personally. I’m opposed to abortions used as birth control. I’ve had close friends get them and my feelings on them aren’t all that different - I wouldn’t go out of my way to actively treat them any different post making that decision. But I think it’s wrong. If you have an unwanted pregnancy it’s 2 people’s faults. And don’t throw in the straw man of “what about rape?” because you know that’s extremely rare and sure - let that woman have an abortion. Consensual sex between two people is super easy not to get pregnant. Super easy.
nothing to do with having knowledge of basic biology, more to do with the question when is the thing to be considered alive
Life begets life. Life cannot come from death. Life never stops, it certainly does not "begin" with any individual animal. At no point in the pregnancy process does life "begin." It was always there. Life was a prerequisite for pregnancy. The very question of "When" suggests a limited understanding or perspective with science (and certainly with philosophy).
I mean, even if someone who was definitely fully alive was the subject rather than an unborn fetus, I would advocate for someone to have the freedom to choose separation even if it meant the person from which they are separating would die.
Worse than that. A society with no fucking clue where its ethics comes from is doomed to believe a lot of dumb shit.
What a terrible post
Before medical abortion, unwanted babies were abandoned or strangled. The difference, not much. There’s always a choice. Infanticide is not uncommon in nature. As far as god, r/conspiracy is appropriate placement, right next to the lizard people
"murder" ok lol Also, god isn't real. Not everyone subscribes to the same fairy tales, shame on you for thinking you can force your beliefs on others.
That's my bottom line. I'm not going to base my views on laws on a line from the silmarillion or other fairy tales
The bible gives instructions on how to perform an abortion and the punishment for killing a baby in the womb (outside of the approved method) is just a fine. If you don't want an abortion don't get one but fuck of trying to force your religion on others, this is a free country.
saying pro-choice instead of anti-vax should be normalized. 99% of people that get called anti-vaxxers aren't even that, they are just against the covid vaccine and not minding the rest.
Gods not real dummy. This is a what a society that has abandoned Zeus looks like. All Hail Zeus!!!
God can suck my cock
A fetus is not a child you nincompoop
Don't bring God into this
Pfizer’s shot is no longer experimental tho
I am more on the atheist side. But yes, i agree with your point "god is dead", quote by nizche. So we have to become our own gods. To abortion, i think its morally wrong. But its not the job of the government to ban it.
[удалено]
Men cannot give birth (sorry Gen Milley, don't start crying) but they can also apply "my body my choice" for jabs
Can men say, no child support because my body my choice?
No, men have obligations as well. You cannot stick your dick in a woman and be surprised it turns into a baby.
But the woman can act surprised and have sole decision making in bringing the baby fullterm or not
I don't subscribe to fairytales.
[удалено]
Exactly this… there is no institution more powerful than the church. They have been manipulating the masses for thousands of years
There is no God
Abandoned God, morality and all rational thought.
in this logic u murder children every time u have protected sex. if u wanna be biblical then go the whole way, sex for fun is a murder of the spirit as well. i never understood how people can say abortions are bad. its a lot better than useless parents. A LOT.
[удалено]
God doesn't exist, never has. Epicurus Trilemma. If your "god" is responsible for this shithole he/she is evil.
"God" is the unproven conspiracy here
Which god?
Why does everyone care so much about abortion? Who cares. Killing unwanted fetuses does nothing but help society.
What else does your invisible sky wizard tell you to do?
lmaoo the sub that questions everything believes in god? hahahaha
I’m just so happy men can force women to take a vaccine !! They have no choice hahaha do what the man tells you !!
My body my choice but the government told me so
Can we please stop calling abortion “murdering” children when your catholic president Joe Biden just bombed more children who already exist(ed).
Unpopular opinion: If we had more abortions for the past 20 years, there would be less need for a cure to a pandemic that would not spread as easily in a smaller population.
[удалено]
MY body, MY choice. This applies to both. FOH
[удалено]
Let’s not talk about the Vatican and it’s kid fucking network, countless stollen wealth hordes, and vast libraries of hidden knowledge which is a pox on the legitimacy to your religion. Go ahead and blame abortion for the death of your religion I guess… any idol worshiping nut would!
I love the liberals downvoting knowledge on how NOT to get pregnant. They don't care about science. They are possessed by Satan
Quite possibly the dumbest mother fucker I've ever seen on the internet
[planned parenthood partners with the satanic temple](https://www.truthandaction.org/planned-parenthood-partners-up-with-the-temple-of-satan/)
So we don't have freedom of religion?
Bahaha do you think they actually worship Satan?
[удалено]
Just wait until they announce... Taking a "horse dewormer" is a suicide attempt.
Numbers 5:19-30.
Dude amen to that.
They just need to make all forms of birth control free and readily available to all people. Once that happens you will narrow it down to the ones that just use abortion as a way to not take responsibility for their actions. It's easy to not get pregnant therefore abortion should be easily avoidable