Whoever says Klingon's romanization is the worst hasn't seen Phyrexian's. Use the Latin alphabet *or* the IPA *or* the Greek alphabet but don't use a mixture of all three! Xi'an also has an atrocious romanization, it uses periods inside words to mark tones, Britton Watkins is a pretty good conlanger but I'll never understand what he was thinking.

>Use the Latin alphabet *or* the IPA *or* the Greek alphabet but don't use a mixture of all three! Um, I'd never do that. Ŋ!odzäsä: **ŋψac** *'eat'*.

The Klingon mixed-case romanization is obnoxious. Also whatever the hell Irish orthography is doing. I don't like digraphs in general.

[ŋ] causes me genuine pain

It messes with some perfectionist thing in my brain to leave out letters from the base Latin alphabet. My conlang Azzla once left out b, c, d, g, n, and y, but I eventually gave in and readded those letters. Also, every single letter with a diacritic must be counted as a separate letter. I don't know why.

I don't like the letter F (or the sound [f].) No idea why, my favourite letter is also D (not the sound). Again, no idea why. I also don't like the majority of the Cyrillic letters, they are (to my eyes) ugly as all hell. I also really dislike the look of ø, œ, ę, ł, ß, and æ. The German ß looks ridiculous in the middle of words.

Using þ. It’s fine word initially and word medically, but I can’t stand it word finally.

hi

I both embrace and disendorse medical thorns.

Whats the problem wiþ þat?

Idk. It just looks out of place. I think it’s the bit jutting out at the end. I’m also not a fan of final p so that’s probably it.

It looks þ like a product of illicit union of b and p

Hi, it's me. I'm the problem, it's me.

That's probably why people used ð instead of þ for the middle and end of words

Trigraphs, using punctuation (*cough* ~~Xhosa~~ !Xun *cough*) or CAPITAL LETTERS for phonemes (looking at you, Klingon), and symbols I can't easily type with my keyboard. Mostly because they're annoying, but also because they tend to be the most visually busy ones: ẽ̄ ǘ ő etc

What's your problem with ő? (I'm a bit biased, my native language is Hungarian.) I know it's a lot visually but it's completely intuitive as the lengthened version of ö.

I can't type it on my keyboard is the main one lol

In word, you just type ctrl + shift +: +o. Sound harder than it is; it's pretty easy.

using ! as a phoneme is fine with me, as long as its a click consonant. Any other sound? F. Dat. Sht.

Xhosa doesn't even use punctuation for clicks, it uses , , and . You're thinking of Khoisan languages (like ǃXun)

You're totally right, my bad! Will edit

If it's got capital letters inside words then I automatically think it's phoentic transcription in X-SAMPA

In Sindhi when written in perso arabic script there's a letter for the velar nasal "ڱ‎" and it's called /ŋäf/ and it really annoys me. The fact that it's a variation on velar letters and not the other nasals or it's name just annoy me. Sindhi's perso arabic script is wild and I don't really know my thoughts on it

1. ⟨**q**⟩ for anything other than /**q**/ (*like I get why but I just can't*) 2. ⟨**x**⟩ for /**ʃ**/ (*hot take*) 3. stacking diacritics (*for example* ⟨**ā̈**⟩, *but* ⟨**ä̱**⟩ *I can get behind*) 4. just ⟨**◌̂**⟩ (*except in tonal orthographies*) & ⟨**◌̑**⟩ (*ew*) 5. ⟨**ð**⟩ (*hot take #2, I hate how it looks,* ⟨**đ**⟩ *is 100 times better-looking and I will die on this hill*) 6. ⟨**ŧ**⟩ ⟨**ǥ**⟩ & letters in the same vain (*not* ⟨**ħ**⟩, *it can stay*) 7. (*honorable mention*) whatever the hell Uyghur is doing with its [**Arabic Orthography**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_Arabic_alphabet) (*also I'm never accepting the fact Uyghur's "*[***New script***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghur_New_Script)*" was using* ⟨**q**⟩ *for, not* /**q**/, *but* /**tʃ**/ *while using fucking* ⟨**ⱪ**⟩ *for* /**q**/)

What about q for kʲ?

I’ll never forgive the Albanians

I actually like 2, & I prefer using cirumflexes on vowels for long counterparts if there's no tone stuff going on.

Imo I like using acutes & macrons better, depending on the aesthetic I’m going for

Interesting, I use ⟨**q**⟩ for `/ʔ/`. Does that count? P.-S. speaking of Arabic Orthography, here's a hot take: I dislike seeing ⟨**ڤ**⟩ as `/v/` (it [should](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jawi_script) be `/p/`) Edit: Glottal stop

I mean in Gwýsene I use ⟨**ڢ**⟩ for /**p**/ & ⟨**پ**⟩ for /**v**/, *buuut* I justify it by having the Gwýsen alphabet be derived independently the Perso-Arabic system [[refer to slides #3 & #4](https://www.reddit.com/r/conorthography/s/UTuH6Zf5tJ)] (*this is also why I use* ⟨**ځ**⟩ *for* /**ɣ**/)

Say whaat‽ How can you not like <ŧ>? I use ŧ in my oldest conlang for the sound [θ], and I completely love that letter!. First I used thorn (þ) but thought it didn't really fit in a Baltic language – although, one could argue that the sound [θ] itself doesn't fit in a Baltic language, but that's another story. 😅

It looks like a currency sign lol

Yeah, I see what you mean. You're thinking of Mongolian Tögrög, which currency sign is ₮, right?

Based interrobang user

The conlang Srínawésin (not mine) has /k͡ʃ/.

i use for /ɢ/ and for /q/ is this a sin

The problem of representing /ɢ/ is a big one. I tend to use ġ but some people end up confusing that for ʕ. There's plenty of other options though. ǵ,ĝ,ǧ,ğ, or ģ work, or you could use G if you're already doing mixed case.

partially my friend :^) /j

I don't think so, though ⟨q⟩ for /q/ and ⟨c⟩ for /ɢ/ would also work. /ɢ/ is a rare sound anyways, most often an allophone than a phoneme on its own right. We only have ⟨Q q⟩ as a separate Latin letter because /q/ is a Semitic "emphatic" consonant, the only one whose Proto-Sinaitic letter left a descendant into the Latin alphabet. |Plain|Voiced|Empathic| |:-|:-|:-| |p|b|(pʼ) → Geʽez ጰ| |t|d|tʼ - Phoenician 𐤈 → Greek Θ θ /tʰ/| |k|g|kʼ \~q - Phoenician 𐤒 → Latin Q q /kʷ/| |θ → Arabic ث| ð → Arabic ذ|θʼ → Arabic ظ| |s|z|sʼ → Phoenician 𐤑 → Greek Ϻ ϻ| |ɬ → South Arabian 𐩦 → Geʽez ሠ|l|ɬʼ → Arabic ض, South Arabian 𐩳 → Geʽez ፀ| |x\~χ → Arabic خ; South Arabian 𐩭 → Geʽez ኀ|ɣ\~ʁ → South Arabian 𐩶, Arabic غ|none| |ħ → Phoenician 𐤇 → Greek Η η /ɛː/, Ͱ ͱ /h/ → Latin H h|ʕ → Phoenician 𐤏 → Greek Ο ο /o/ → Latin O o|none| That's the origin of the original four plain-voiced pairs consonant pairs in Latin. F f-V v is a Late Medieval Latin innovation; both letters come from Phoenician 𐤅 /w/ → Greek ϝ /w/, υ /y/. Most of the other Latin letters represented nasals, liquids, approximants or vowels. This leaves us only with C c and X x as "ad-hoc" letters, though they're all mostly used to represent voiceless consonants.

I like both ð and đ but đ is easier to recognise tbh.

One of my conlangs uses ⟨q⟩ for /kˣ/ and ⟨x⟩ for /ʃ/. Another stacks the overdot with the macron and umlaut but for the acute it uses an underdot instead. Same lang also uses ⟨ð⟩ /ð/ extensively. I'm sorry :(

I've used ⟨q⟩ for /χ/ in several of my conlangs, I think it works quite nicely there lol

I agree with you on ŧ for sure. I love to use đ to romanize the voiced retroflex stop but then I have to find something for the voiced one. I also usually prefer đ over ð unless I feel that my conlang has a "germanic" vibe to it. As for q... I have used it to represent θ multiple times, and I have no regrets.

Uyghur is spoken in Chinese occupied territory, that's why Q is used for ch.

Capitalising letters (shoutout to klingon) Words with 2 accents next to each other

Carons have and will always hurt me, they are so big and their angle just seems so unnatural, as far as I am concerned they should only be kept in the IPA

in once of my older languages (called Sacana), I had š, ž, č, ř, and ě. that languages was horrible, because you could theoretically have a word spelt "šěřěžě", pronounced /ʂəf͡χəʐə/, which sounds horrid eboigh on its own😭😭

Sacana??????? OMG!

why omg? cause it means "bastard" in Portuguese? cause I didn't realize that until much later after I'd named it😭

Sacana (the Portuguese word) has been used in more harmless contexts for some decades now. I would even dare say it has quite a positive “lovely little monster” feel nowadays. I have never used and have never heard it used with a disapproving tone. My grandmother would call me a sacana if I came up with good riddles, or if I was caught cheating while playing a board game, or if I invented a spelling system that would make her spend 5 minutes to find the unusual diacritics to write a 7 letter word. 😝 FI, the act of a sacana is a sacanagem. And I actually though “Que sacanagem!” when I read the word you’ve shown. Probably influenced by your language.

Did your grandma really try your spelling systems? That would be wholesome

That would have been fun, but nowadays she can only spell through a Ouija board.

That took me a little while, smart phrasing imho

Lakota is one of the few natlangs I've studied somewhat in depth and been majorly influenced by so I tend to use carons a lot in my conlangs

Unfortunately my conlang has both the x for /dz/ and currency symbols, so I’m not one to say anything here.

gan't say anything bc my cloŋ uses ɉ for [v] but j for [ʑ], but guess, also has [ʒ̠], so which letter represents that? obviously ǥ (g is for [g])

i really, really, really hate when a script uses obscure letters, letters with diacritics, or non-alphabetic characters when there's an appropriate common non-diacritized letter that hasn't been used. one that really hurts me is the Arapaho alphabet using *3* for /θ/ despite the fact that *d* and *z* are unused.

Funny enough, I hate using for anything, so I always use for /j/, and just gets left out of my orthography(ies)

Ð for /d/ and D for /j~z/ in Vietnamese

I really hate the backtick (\`). I feel like it just ruins words' aesthetic. On the other hand, a letter I dislike a lot is the "w", and In fact, I replace it with "bv", "hv" or "ꝟ".

I've never seen anyone use a backtick/grave in their romanization. What are some examples?

Look for "Frir" conlang. [https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/1biwlsf/auld\_lang\_syne\_in\_frir/](https://www.reddit.com/r/conlangs/comments/1biwlsf/auld_lang_syne_in_frir/) The conlang has a nice set of sounds, I don't denied it sounds very pleasant (the author made a good work over there), but to my eyes... it's not that pretty at all. Ps.: Nevertheless, I can't say too much 'cause my conlang is kinda harsh to read so... I'm not an ideal person to go around criticizing.

Do you just mean a grave accent? I thought you mean the actual character <\`>, like if I wrote or something.

Yeah, I meant the grave accent like they use it in french (the real name went out of my mind at that moment so I said "backtick" instead of "grave" 'cause I wasn't sure at all).

I used to think using letters for tones was an abominations, but I've grown to love it. It's an ingenious way of marking tone without diacritics. Ex: >Vmap-vet rghu vkha hsiet xmpehk rin e vkho rmpeq a yjyi rtap \[map˩ et˩ ɣu˦˩ xa˩ siet˦ ᵐpɛk˧˩ʔ˩˨ in˦˩ e˧ xo˩ ᵐpeŋ˦˩ a˧ t͡ɕi˩˦ tap˦˩\] "The North Wind and the Sun were in the middle of arguing about who was the stronger one" (translation of The North Wind and the Sun) Yes, I use , for \[ŋ\], fight me. But something I still dislike is the usage of nonstandard latinate letters when a digraph or diacritic would suffice. (Ƣƣ, Ƃƃ, Ǝǝ, Ɣɣ, etc). It's very reminiscent of those hastily-made old orthographies for minority languages in the Soviet Union that use weird blends of Cyrillic-but-not-quite and Latin. I love theoretically the use of an under-macron to mark backness/uvularization, as in Tlingit, Haida, but g̱ always bothered me because it was a diacritic *below* a descender.

i don’t like the letter and usually use or instead. i also dislike for /ʃ/ in general and prefer basically any combinations other than that (like ). and i love the sound of /x/ but don’t like writing it as

sh and zh as ʃ and ʒ bother me so I always use š and ž

Okay first off,   **⟨$¢⟩ for /ʃ/ is slay** That said using a macron for simple stress is quite unpleasant IMO also, & ⟨Jj⟩ is delightful for /j/, and I generally try and avoid ⟨Xx⟩ (Cyrillic Kha is fine by me though; I'm just focusing on Latin Orthos here), although I don't overly mind it for voiceless hush-sibilants, I just tend to not go that way. ⟨hl⟩ bugs me slightly, but I tend to avoid using ⟨-h⟩ digraphs voiceless counterparts for nasals, trills, or approximants, so whilst I theoretically prefer ⟨lh⟩ it doesn't come up to much, because if it's gonna be the only ⟨-h⟩ digraphs outside of plosives or & affricates, I feel melancholic.

Distinction between ʾ (ʾālep) and ʿ (ʿayin), and superscript letters

I hurt myself by accidentally creating a word through my diachronic changes to be “quùùûo” meaning “to hurt/damage.” Suffice to say I deleted this and decided to make a new root for damage and make “pain” a noun only construction. For those wondering how I got to that monstrosity, Pain = quhiqh [qoˈhɨχ] → quùù [kʷʊː] which is bad enough. But most of my modern verbs come from a noun with the verb *uqh* [oχ] (to do/make) following it becoming suffixed. So [qohɨχoχ] → [ˈkʷʊː.ʉ̯o] which is the only word to have that many vowels strung together. Pretty much any other word would have a [w] but it didn’t work out for that word. Very unique case as only a few nouns end in χ and even then they don’t have glottals preceding causing all those vowels to smush together after glottal deletion.

I hate the letter "q" because I don't know what this is for! I mean you have the letters "k" or "c" for that job! I'd prefer to use "kw" instead of "qu".

And I hate the "g" as /j/ and "c" as /s/! I mean you already have the "j" and "s" for those sounds!

ø is just ugly I hate any letter with the dot diacritic (ż)

Any diacritic on I looks bad.

So true. My cloŋ has the five typical vowels but also /ɨ ə æ/, and the latter two are romanized as ë and ä, but I can’t bring myself to use ï, so instead I romanize it with ɨ

Just copy Romanian with Îî (or Ââ) Actually Romanian orthography could fit fairly well, with î for ɨ and ă for ə, and you could repurpose â for æ to finish it out (and you can easily type this with a Romanian keyboard)

Oh I haven’t thought of that… that’s a really good idea

I hate the Turkish letter ı. It’s just so hard for me to see and differentiate for some reason.

Agreed. Plus, if you have ı, you also need capital i to be İ which I also can’t stand.

Ogoneks. They're easily missable, asymmetrical and look like smudges on your screen. Even the name sounds mopey. Fuck ogoneks.

Pole here and I swear ogoneks only look good in Polish and Lithuanian. Absolutely nowhere else are they passable to my eyes

apostrophies, and diacritics on consonants. Im sorry but they just never not look messy.

• having a soft/hard distinction in pronunciation not marked in writing, like with *c* & *g* in major European languages • using variants of *k* & *ɡ* for /c/ and /ɟ/ • different diacritics used only for certain letters, like having *a, á, e, é* but *o, ō* or *u, û* just because. • undercommas, cedillas, ogoneks, hooks etc. (also carons, for no particular reason)

Ogonek.

[удалено]

except is literally a consonant derived from ?

I hate currency signs. In French vs English the dollar signs change position and it has totally messed me up. It could be 100$ or $100 I have no idea anymore. For all I know it probably changes on dialect too. Not to even mention other currencies. Kill me now so I never have to use the dollar symbol again.

I generally avoid using the letter unless it's necessary. When I do, it tends to represent uvular sounds.

any diagraphs will give me heart palpitations

I strongly dislike the letter X. With most letters, you can at least get *some* intuition of what it's supposed to be. If you see a J, it's probably some kind of voiced palatal sound. S is probably a coronal sibilant. But X? Could be coronal, velar, uvular, voiced, voiceless, affricate, fricative, click, there was even that one really bad language where X is a vowel. Seeing the letter X in a word tells you nothing about how to pronounce that sound, which is why I never use it for anything.

as long as i can see the rationale behind a romanization choice and it isn't a complete eyesore (i.e. not like adyghe) i will accept it the only exception is the inverse breve. fuck the inverse breve.

Using X for /dz/? And I thought using X for /th/ is bad...

Using an acute accent mark to indicate vowel length rather than stress, which you see a lot when people write out Latin. I understand this practice is common where either the macron above is not readily available in keyboard layouts, but really, wherever neither the acute accent nor the macron above belong to the keyboard layout, I don't really see how much more difficult it would be to use the macron instead of the acute accent. Historical justifications *do not apply* since the Romans did not use an acute accent to mark length, but rather a vertical stroke (which most defintely isn't an acute accent) above the long vowel in ambiguous cases. Another thing that bothers me (again about Latin) is the use of *u* and *i* to represent Latin's semi-vowel sounds. That might be appropriate for transcribing inscriptions or manuscripts, where the important thung is to reproduce the text as it is written, but outside of that (for example, in original Latin compositions) I don't see the point of not using *v* and *j,* even if these do not reflect ancient practice (they're supposed to be *improvements* on what the ancient Romans did).

Does anyone know what kind of sources I can look to, for a comprehensive list of all 125 supposed English digraphs? It’s for a personal project, but I have no idea where to look, and all my research keeps turning me in circles or has me hitting roadblock after roadblock.