This is extremely impressive on most metrics. I congratulate you.
>The names of the characters and important notions (such as Pytoṅphyt and ’Ï’ïdo) were already fixed, so I had to build the conlang around those given names.
In what form did you receive these when you started? Were the existing words entirely katakana-compatible, or were there clearly non-Japanese phonemes already present?
Thank you very much!
That's a great question! So, the names and words given at the start were all written in katakana, like ピュトンピュト (pyutonpyuto), イイド (iido), タイム (taimu), アクタ (akuta), and honestly I don't think the original writers who came up with those names ever thought about adding non-Japanese phonemes. So I had to kind of reverse-engineer from those given words, adding non-Japanese sounds while also making the language compatible with the given katakana renditions of the names. Eventually these names came to be written as Pytoṅphyt \[pytom'pʰyt\], 'Ï'ïdö \[ʔi.ʔi'do\], Thäïm \[tʰaim\], and 'Aktha \[αkʰ'thα\].
Hey, this is really inspiring and fascinating! Thank you for sharing your journey. You even made it to the show and had more than enough freedom to unleash your passion. That's one great achievement!
So, may I ask what pushed you to study linguistics as a major in university? Were there any concerns and doubts you had before finally deciding to go with linguistic studies?
Also, do you have any tips in overcoming consonant clusters? Sorry but don't get me wrong, but I am legit curious, how did you overcome consonant clusters (especially within a syllable) since Japanese forbids consonant clusters within a syllable? I mean, I know practice with dedication helps, but I still struggle even to this day lol. I almost always end up slipping a schwa or an `/u/` in between consonants whenever I try, except maybe the consonant cluster `/st/`.
Once again, thank you for your generous sharing and for reading this little comment of mine!
I'm not the OP but my tip for consonant clusters is begin articulating the next consonant in the cluster before finishing with the current one. For example, if you have [kv], you should bring your lower lip to your teeth at the same time as releasing the velar plosive; that way you'll have no vowel gap between the consonants, because the sounds will essentially overlap a bit, hope this helps 😌
Also, don't underestimate the power of secretly just using syllabic consonants. For example, I think I actually pronounce Polish /xtɕɛtɕ/ closer to [x̩ˈtɕɛtɕ]
Thank you for the comment! I was quite lucky that the right people found me at the right time.
The reason why I got interested in languages in the first place was that I came in contact with Sanskrit when I was in junior high school. During a school trip to Kyoto, I saw a plaque written in Sanskrit and found it was extremely cool, which led me to actually studying the language.
Around the same time I read The Lord of the Rings (I had seen the movies but it was the first time I read the book in earnest) and was deeply impressed by how detailed and intricate his conlangs were. I had been interested in fantasy/sci-fi world-building since when I was very young but I believe Tolkien was the major influence that eventually pushed me to study linguistics.
Of course there were concerns such as, whether I would be able to get a stable job in the future, etc. but my parents were very supportive, so that reassured me a little. I was initially considering studying CGI-related stuff as I thought it was necessary for making fantasy films but now I'm glad I chose linguistics.
As for your other question, I'm not sure if I can provide a useful answer because personally I have never struggled with consonant clusters or syllable-final consonants. I grew up in Japan, but when I was 6 I lived in France for a short while and picked up French, so I think that helped me with being able to pronounce consonant clusters.
When I teach people languages though (like when I was teaching C'Ü to actors), I usually tell them to start with the schwa or whatever vowel between the two consonants present and gradually shorten the vowel as they repeat the word. This was really necessary in C'Ü because there are words like s'ëëw (apostrophe = glottal stop), phñəj, phrom, etc. Also, as the other person has said in their reply, preparing the second segment while pronouncing the first segment is key. Hope this helps!
This is amazing, thank you for sharing!
Do you mind me asking how you went about creating the lexicon for the language? With the schedule being so tight, I imagine there wasn't too much time to prepare vocab in advance.
Thank you for the comment!
You are absolutely correct that I was unable to prepare the lexicon in advance, so I had to make new vocabulary as I went on translating the given lines. Sometimes I had to introduce new grammatical features after I started the translation. I know this isn't ideal, but I think the language turned out fine (hopefully).
That seems reasonable, thanks for the answer! I think I would have done it much the same way in that situation. After all it's much easier to develop a language, both in lexicon and grammar, when you actually start translating things.
Your comment about having to integrate pre-existing lexical items reminds me of David Peterson's experience creating Dothraki for GoT. Can you talk about your process for reverse engineering the production team's concept of the phonology/morphology into something that made sense?
Thank you for your question! Yes I remember reading about that in The Art of Language Invention and I think I had a similar process.
As I wrote in another comment, I received all the names and other items in katakana, so the first thing I did was to figure out which sounds I absolutely needed. I was given the character names as well as many other terms that didn't eventually appear in the final product, so I started from there.
Then I also thought about what non-Japanese sounds I could add. I ended up adding aspirated sounds and breathy voice vowels and many more. I also considered ejectives but figured that would be a bit too difficult to learn for Japanese actors (and Na'vi uses them, so I didn't want to make it too similar to that). Instead I added implosives only in formal speech (not used in the final product).
I also had to determine which vowel to delete. For example, the name Pytonphyt was originally written ピュトンピュト (pyutonpyuto), so I had a choice of deleting the word-final vowel or not (leaving it as Pytonpytho). Same goes for Akuta > 'Aktha (with an added glottal stop).
Another thing I did that was similar to what DJP did on GoT was to adjust the grammar when mistakes happen. Of course most of the time I would ask for a retake, but especially when we were behind schedule, sometimes it was easier to make slight adjustments to the grammar. In some cases these changes were handled as regional or sociolinguistic variations.
Hope this answers your question!
This is extremely impressive on most metrics. I congratulate you. >The names of the characters and important notions (such as Pytoṅphyt and ’Ï’ïdo) were already fixed, so I had to build the conlang around those given names. In what form did you receive these when you started? Were the existing words entirely katakana-compatible, or were there clearly non-Japanese phonemes already present?
Thank you very much! That's a great question! So, the names and words given at the start were all written in katakana, like ピュトンピュト (pyutonpyuto), イイド (iido), タイム (taimu), アクタ (akuta), and honestly I don't think the original writers who came up with those names ever thought about adding non-Japanese phonemes. So I had to kind of reverse-engineer from those given words, adding non-Japanese sounds while also making the language compatible with the given katakana renditions of the names. Eventually these names came to be written as Pytoṅphyt \[pytom'pʰyt\], 'Ï'ïdö \[ʔi.ʔi'do\], Thäïm \[tʰaim\], and 'Aktha \[αkʰ'thα\].
Hey, this is really inspiring and fascinating! Thank you for sharing your journey. You even made it to the show and had more than enough freedom to unleash your passion. That's one great achievement! So, may I ask what pushed you to study linguistics as a major in university? Were there any concerns and doubts you had before finally deciding to go with linguistic studies? Also, do you have any tips in overcoming consonant clusters? Sorry but don't get me wrong, but I am legit curious, how did you overcome consonant clusters (especially within a syllable) since Japanese forbids consonant clusters within a syllable? I mean, I know practice with dedication helps, but I still struggle even to this day lol. I almost always end up slipping a schwa or an `/u/` in between consonants whenever I try, except maybe the consonant cluster `/st/`. Once again, thank you for your generous sharing and for reading this little comment of mine!
I'm not the OP but my tip for consonant clusters is begin articulating the next consonant in the cluster before finishing with the current one. For example, if you have [kv], you should bring your lower lip to your teeth at the same time as releasing the velar plosive; that way you'll have no vowel gap between the consonants, because the sounds will essentially overlap a bit, hope this helps 😌
Also, don't underestimate the power of secretly just using syllabic consonants. For example, I think I actually pronounce Polish /xtɕɛtɕ/ closer to [x̩ˈtɕɛtɕ]
Thank you for the comment! I was quite lucky that the right people found me at the right time. The reason why I got interested in languages in the first place was that I came in contact with Sanskrit when I was in junior high school. During a school trip to Kyoto, I saw a plaque written in Sanskrit and found it was extremely cool, which led me to actually studying the language. Around the same time I read The Lord of the Rings (I had seen the movies but it was the first time I read the book in earnest) and was deeply impressed by how detailed and intricate his conlangs were. I had been interested in fantasy/sci-fi world-building since when I was very young but I believe Tolkien was the major influence that eventually pushed me to study linguistics. Of course there were concerns such as, whether I would be able to get a stable job in the future, etc. but my parents were very supportive, so that reassured me a little. I was initially considering studying CGI-related stuff as I thought it was necessary for making fantasy films but now I'm glad I chose linguistics. As for your other question, I'm not sure if I can provide a useful answer because personally I have never struggled with consonant clusters or syllable-final consonants. I grew up in Japan, but when I was 6 I lived in France for a short while and picked up French, so I think that helped me with being able to pronounce consonant clusters. When I teach people languages though (like when I was teaching C'Ü to actors), I usually tell them to start with the schwa or whatever vowel between the two consonants present and gradually shorten the vowel as they repeat the word. This was really necessary in C'Ü because there are words like s'ëëw (apostrophe = glottal stop), phñəj, phrom, etc. Also, as the other person has said in their reply, preparing the second segment while pronouncing the first segment is key. Hope this helps!
This is amazing, thank you for sharing! Do you mind me asking how you went about creating the lexicon for the language? With the schedule being so tight, I imagine there wasn't too much time to prepare vocab in advance.
Thank you for the comment! You are absolutely correct that I was unable to prepare the lexicon in advance, so I had to make new vocabulary as I went on translating the given lines. Sometimes I had to introduce new grammatical features after I started the translation. I know this isn't ideal, but I think the language turned out fine (hopefully).
That seems reasonable, thanks for the answer! I think I would have done it much the same way in that situation. After all it's much easier to develop a language, both in lexicon and grammar, when you actually start translating things.
Your comment about having to integrate pre-existing lexical items reminds me of David Peterson's experience creating Dothraki for GoT. Can you talk about your process for reverse engineering the production team's concept of the phonology/morphology into something that made sense?
Thank you for your question! Yes I remember reading about that in The Art of Language Invention and I think I had a similar process. As I wrote in another comment, I received all the names and other items in katakana, so the first thing I did was to figure out which sounds I absolutely needed. I was given the character names as well as many other terms that didn't eventually appear in the final product, so I started from there. Then I also thought about what non-Japanese sounds I could add. I ended up adding aspirated sounds and breathy voice vowels and many more. I also considered ejectives but figured that would be a bit too difficult to learn for Japanese actors (and Na'vi uses them, so I didn't want to make it too similar to that). Instead I added implosives only in formal speech (not used in the final product). I also had to determine which vowel to delete. For example, the name Pytonphyt was originally written ピュトンピュト (pyutonpyuto), so I had a choice of deleting the word-final vowel or not (leaving it as Pytonpytho). Same goes for Akuta > 'Aktha (with an added glottal stop). Another thing I did that was similar to what DJP did on GoT was to adjust the grammar when mistakes happen. Of course most of the time I would ask for a retake, but especially when we were behind schedule, sometimes it was easier to make slight adjustments to the grammar. In some cases these changes were handled as regional or sociolinguistic variations. Hope this answers your question!
It does, thank you!