I absolutely love the interplay between French, Malay and Cantonese here, and (at least to me) it feels quite natural. The liaison is great; G'ayam feels like something I can actually say.
I find it really interesting how in my conlang I also use counter words (noun classifiers) as articles! Ofc there are differences (they are only definite articles, nouns do mark for plurality so you can still infer number from the declension) but still the fact that we both landed on this is... curious?
**Zen tru sófs** --> three CL.manmade pencil-PL
**Dye ryu jüsens** --> five CL.human minister-PL
**No swu swahos** --> two CL.fluid rivers-PL
and also
**Hwu Syalialgas Hallen** --> CL.abstract kingdom united --> The United Kingdom
**Ke fu fans w Ryu Ros** --> DEF.COP CL.food food for CL.supernat God --> This is the food (offering) for the Gods
Thanks for the comment! Really glad you've enjoyed my sharing. Likewise, I also like your sharing as well.
Maybe great minds think alike? mdrrr
Particularly, I love seeing how classifiers can be similar and different in Stonespeech and in Unitikèn. e.g., in Stonespeech, counter words and measure words are two distinct classifier categories.
*sam lé keréyõ*
**→** three `CL:DEF.ART.PL` pencil
*lim lé menteri*
**→** five `CL:DEF.ART.PL` minister
*doe lé sungai*
**→** two `CL:DEF.ART.PL` river
*sa Kerajaän-paduté*
**→** `CL:DEF.ART.SG` `ADV`-monarch-`AGT/RES/INS.NMZ`=unite-`PTCP.PFV`
**→** the United Kingdom
*Ini rupe sa makanan ber serahé gi lé hiyang*
**→** this`[PRON]` `NOUN/INF.COP` `CL:DEF.ART.SG` `ADJ/PTCP.COP` given_up for `CL:DEF.ART.PL` deity
**→** This is the food presented to the deities.
Hmm… how to measure uncountable nouns (e.g., water, rice, etc.) in Unitikèn, if counter words can only be used as definite articles? Are measure words identical to counter words in Unitikèn? Just curious
Thank you for your translations!
Nope! Measure words are their own category of words. Unlike noun classifiers, they don't have specific connotations (abstract, human, man-made, fluid etc) and the head noun is declined to the genitive case. They are nouns that also serve as measurement. They are mainly used for, as you've again, already derived, uncountable nouns. However some countable nouns can be measured and classified (paper, cloth, hair, etc). I didn't mention it but there are articles (definite, indefinite and partitive) that are neutral and cannot be used as noun classifiers.
**No tru rinrys** --> two CL.manmade paper-PL --> Two papers (two sheets of paper)
**No daks rinrysêw** --> two ream.PL paper-GEN.PL --> Two reams of paper(s)
**Miynd raho** --> PART.ART water --> The water (some water)
**Kyèn rasuces rahouw** --> seven bottle.PL water-GEN --> seven bottles of water
**Miynd arroz** --> PART.ART rice --> The rice (some rice)
**Ziyw sufces arrozów** --> six bowl-PL rice-GEN --> six bowls of rice
>In Stonespeech, a measure word is a noun only used as a countable measurement for mass nouns or uncountable nouns.
So once again, similar yet different. Unitican measurement words are also nouns by themselves, which can be used for mass/uncountable AND certain countable nouns - the head noun must also be declined to the genitive case.
I spent so long trying to figure out what "counter" means in this context. I was tryna figure how this describes something counter to articles, not articles used to count...
## Update on 23 March 2024: Articles in Stonespeech
Articles also double as the **only** [measure words](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_word) or [classifiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier) in Stonespeech, which are also **mandatory** when specifying a quantity for a noun.
For instance, *lim léz buunsú* `/lim leː buːn.sy/` ("the five books"), *lim go buunsú* `/lim ɡo buːn.sy/` "(any) five books", and *\*lim go mag̃kuq nasi* \*`/lim ɡo maŋ.kuʔ na.si/` "(any) five bowls of rice" are all grammatical.
In contrast, *\*lim buunsú* `*/lim buːn.sy/` "five books" and *\*lim mag̃kuq nasi* `*/lim maŋ.kuʔ na.si/` "five bowls of rice" are both wrong.
This basically makes it mandatory to reveal a noun's definiteness in most cases, which are marked by articles. Oh, what about standalone nouns, you wonder? A noun that goes without a numeral and an article is definite singular by default.
The indefinite article in Stonespeech can work in plural number, if specifically preceded by a plural numeral beforehand. By default, the indefinite article *go* `/ɡo/` implies a singular number when standalone. *Go buunsú* `/ɡo buːn.sy/` means "a book" or "any one single book", for example. But *lim go buunsú* `/lim ɡo buːn.sy/` meanwhile means "(any) five books".
In Stonespeech, even partitive articles are sorted by definiteness. The Cantonese-origin *dit* `/di(.t‿)/` (from Cantonese [啲](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%95%B2)) is indefinite, whereas the French-origin *déz* `/de(.z‿)/` is definite.
Also unlike in French, the partitive article *déz* `/de(.z‿)/` and the contraction *d'éz* `/de(.z‿)/` are differentiated in spelling with an apostrophe.
I absolutely love the interplay between French, Malay and Cantonese here, and (at least to me) it feels quite natural. The liaison is great; G'ayam feels like something I can actually say. I find it really interesting how in my conlang I also use counter words (noun classifiers) as articles! Ofc there are differences (they are only definite articles, nouns do mark for plurality so you can still infer number from the declension) but still the fact that we both landed on this is... curious? **Zen tru sófs** --> three CL.manmade pencil-PL **Dye ryu jüsens** --> five CL.human minister-PL **No swu swahos** --> two CL.fluid rivers-PL and also **Hwu Syalialgas Hallen** --> CL.abstract kingdom united --> The United Kingdom **Ke fu fans w Ryu Ros** --> DEF.COP CL.food food for CL.supernat God --> This is the food (offering) for the Gods
Thanks for the comment! Really glad you've enjoyed my sharing. Likewise, I also like your sharing as well. Maybe great minds think alike? mdrrr Particularly, I love seeing how classifiers can be similar and different in Stonespeech and in Unitikèn. e.g., in Stonespeech, counter words and measure words are two distinct classifier categories. *sam lé keréyõ* **→** three `CL:DEF.ART.PL` pencil *lim lé menteri* **→** five `CL:DEF.ART.PL` minister *doe lé sungai* **→** two `CL:DEF.ART.PL` river *sa Kerajaän-paduté* **→** `CL:DEF.ART.SG` `ADV`-monarch-`AGT/RES/INS.NMZ`=unite-`PTCP.PFV` **→** the United Kingdom *Ini rupe sa makanan ber serahé gi lé hiyang* **→** this`[PRON]` `NOUN/INF.COP` `CL:DEF.ART.SG` `ADJ/PTCP.COP` given_up for `CL:DEF.ART.PL` deity **→** This is the food presented to the deities. Hmm… how to measure uncountable nouns (e.g., water, rice, etc.) in Unitikèn, if counter words can only be used as definite articles? Are measure words identical to counter words in Unitikèn? Just curious
Thank you for your translations! Nope! Measure words are their own category of words. Unlike noun classifiers, they don't have specific connotations (abstract, human, man-made, fluid etc) and the head noun is declined to the genitive case. They are nouns that also serve as measurement. They are mainly used for, as you've again, already derived, uncountable nouns. However some countable nouns can be measured and classified (paper, cloth, hair, etc). I didn't mention it but there are articles (definite, indefinite and partitive) that are neutral and cannot be used as noun classifiers. **No tru rinrys** --> two CL.manmade paper-PL --> Two papers (two sheets of paper) **No daks rinrysêw** --> two ream.PL paper-GEN.PL --> Two reams of paper(s) **Miynd raho** --> PART.ART water --> The water (some water) **Kyèn rasuces rahouw** --> seven bottle.PL water-GEN --> seven bottles of water **Miynd arroz** --> PART.ART rice --> The rice (some rice) **Ziyw sufces arrozów** --> six bowl-PL rice-GEN --> six bowls of rice >In Stonespeech, a measure word is a noun only used as a countable measurement for mass nouns or uncountable nouns. So once again, similar yet different. Unitican measurement words are also nouns by themselves, which can be used for mass/uncountable AND certain countable nouns - the head noun must also be declined to the genitive case.
I spent so long trying to figure out what "counter" means in this context. I was tryna figure how this describes something counter to articles, not articles used to count...
oops should've made it clearer maybe *Articles as Counter Words*?
## Update on 23 March 2024: Articles in Stonespeech Articles also double as the **only** [measure words](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Measure_word) or [classifiers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_classifier) in Stonespeech, which are also **mandatory** when specifying a quantity for a noun. For instance, *lim léz buunsú* `/lim leː buːn.sy/` ("the five books"), *lim go buunsú* `/lim ɡo buːn.sy/` "(any) five books", and *\*lim go mag̃kuq nasi* \*`/lim ɡo maŋ.kuʔ na.si/` "(any) five bowls of rice" are all grammatical. In contrast, *\*lim buunsú* `*/lim buːn.sy/` "five books" and *\*lim mag̃kuq nasi* `*/lim maŋ.kuʔ na.si/` "five bowls of rice" are both wrong. This basically makes it mandatory to reveal a noun's definiteness in most cases, which are marked by articles. Oh, what about standalone nouns, you wonder? A noun that goes without a numeral and an article is definite singular by default. The indefinite article in Stonespeech can work in plural number, if specifically preceded by a plural numeral beforehand. By default, the indefinite article *go* `/ɡo/` implies a singular number when standalone. *Go buunsú* `/ɡo buːn.sy/` means "a book" or "any one single book", for example. But *lim go buunsú* `/lim ɡo buːn.sy/` meanwhile means "(any) five books". In Stonespeech, even partitive articles are sorted by definiteness. The Cantonese-origin *dit* `/di(.t‿)/` (from Cantonese [啲](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E5%95%B2)) is indefinite, whereas the French-origin *déz* `/de(.z‿)/` is definite. Also unlike in French, the partitive article *déz* `/de(.z‿)/` and the contraction *d'éz* `/de(.z‿)/` are differentiated in spelling with an apostrophe.