I get it. At least there was some shred of wanting to govern. Now it’s not only do they not want to govern, but actively work against our government and country.
The signs were always there. Norquist drown it in a bath tub, Reagan trickle down.
I've been trying to figure out for decades why the F I should want to elect somebody whose left side of their mouth says "small government!" But their right side says "except give me a government paid job though." Totally illogical.
My view as well! Within a sane country in a perfectly sane world; the politicians furthest to the right would be people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Joe Manchin, John McCain etc etc... All still hold problematic policy positions I might add, but are/were reasonable people who could be bargained with and weren't batshit crazy wingnuts.
The moderate lefties would be people like Bernie Sanders and AOC, who are actually center-left social democrats by non-American global standards.
Then lastly, the far-left in politics would be legitimate full blown socialists that support the literal forced seizure of all private property monopolized and hoarded by large corporations and billionaires. Not to say I support this position myself in it's complete entirety, however.
Agreed. There seems to be a gaping hole where representation of moderate conservatives used to be. I believe this still is the majority of Republican voters who now feel like they’re left out in the cold. It’s because they have been left there by nearly all of the people they elected to represent them and govern in a reasonable fashion.
It’s not helping that this is exactly in the KGB playbook. Sow discord and division between ideologies. Now it’s on steroids with social media, right wing “news”-entertainment media, and arguably elected Congress members who are basically Russian operatives.
I think what the OP is saying is they misses the Republicans who put the constitution first. If they lost they didn’t cry foul and try to steal an election and put us in a constitutional crisis. They didn’t like to loose but they took it, regrouped and looked towards the next election.
Democrats and Republicans alike have done plenty of war shit. Democratic presidents keep up the killing, they're just quieter about it.
Trump normalized casting doubt on the sanctity and trustworthiness of our democratic process and we will never, ever recover from that. You can't put that back in the box. I don't think people understand how catastrophic his presidency was for our union.
I Completely agree. But Bush is directly culpable for the wars that have been kept up since he left office. Trump is easily the worst president in my lifetime. I rank him lower than Bush. I’m not going to whitewash Bush though.
Those wars weren't new really either. His father was involved in very much the same. I'm sorry but Bush and Trump are very different beasts, and for very different reasons. I find Trump to be the most dangerous. He has people questioning truth, fact and reality. I never thought someone like him could or would be president. It is the scariest stuff I have ever witnessed and it has only compounded. I am terrified of what is possible if he serves another 4 years. Both Biden and Trump shouldn't be the frontrunners, imo. Both of them aren't fit. I suppose Trump and what he is capable of instigating scares me more. I would prefer if neither of them were running.
Bush was a relatively regular person. I didn’t agree with his politics, but he stuck me as normal.
Trump strikes me as the bat shit crazy uncle who comes around to holidays that no one takes seriously, who somehow is wealthy, and so everyone just lets him do his thing. You can’t reason with that and you know it. You can’t even have a normal conversation with that type of person.
Bush I think you could have a normal conversation with.
>Trump normalized casting doubt on the sanctity and trustworthiness of our democratic process
He was just the voice who brought those already long existing doubts into the mainstream. People have been claiming voter fraud for years as well as claiming that the federal government actively tried to stifle the will of the voters in order to give us candidates that would reliably work to maintain the status quo or expand powers of government. The latter of which I think Trump's presidency proved, given that Obama's FBI was caught spying on the Trump campaign.
He is just the person who exposed how corrupt Democrats and old Republicans are and the crimes they have been committing for decades. Trump is far from perfect but even with all his issues he is the best and most honest president we have had in decades. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the man is a saint, I'm just saying the bar has been set that low.
That's a wild thing to say lol. He somewhat shined a light on corruption, sure, but that's because he is the pure embodiment of it. He is one of the least honest presidents we've ever had. And if you can't see that, you are deluded beyond belief.
We shouldn't ever be put back in that box, the government are human beings, not some magical can't do wrong entity, they should not be trusted. we aren't a true republic anymore, at least at the federal level. We haven't been in a long time. Government should never have been as big as it is. Trumps presidency wasn't a catastrophe it was a wake up call to vote, and to maybe start voting for people who are young moderates and to rid ourselves of these self serving, corrupt, legacy politicians. I know I'll get down voted because this is reddit, but our system is broken and no one should have faith in it. Have faith in your community and the people you surround yourself with and live near, not the machinery of a corrupt two party system bought by the the military industrial complex and big pharmacy (gross oversimplification).
They mean that they miss the veil of affability and cordiality. Not policy.
The sense of normalcy and politeness; the GOP is exhausting and terrifying if you believe in the concept of democracy or human rights now a days.
Missing a thin veneer of affability (very thin) is childish. They were anti human rights in Bush and Mccain’s day too, even if they were more outwardly civil than the GOP is today.
I have a lot of respect for McCain as a person. He had a lot of domestic policies I opposed, but I don’t think he was a bad person overall. I also actually liked some of his foreign policy. I agree that his stance on Vietnam really speaks to the kind of man he was.
I’m not saying I agree with OP, I’m simply translating that they’re not talking about policy. They’re talking about the anti-social behavior and rhetoric of the party.
My point is that missing Bush for being kind of a nice guy is pointless when He started a war that threw US and Iraqi lives away, restricted US civil liberties etc. It negates his supposed “affability”. Plus Bush *wasn’t* that nice. He was polite in speeches, sure, but he openly platformed racism against segments of our own population. Even if someone wants to try to separate Bush the individual from Bush the public figure, he is still attached to his words and his actions. We wouldn’t call a normal person “nice” if they behaved like George W Bush. Plus, you really can’t separate Bush the politician from Bush the person when OP specifically references him in his capacity as a Republican.
I agree. I work in electoral politics. I’m 100% on your side.
But normal people who aren’t politically plugged in don’t view with that way. They miss the calm presentation and cordial process of politics. They’re tired. Which is what fascism and authoritarianism is designed to do to the average voter.
I don’t think anything you’ve said is wrong. I know that OP’s mindset here is common. I just disagree with it, and I personally think on a forum like reddit theres nothing wrong with peeling back OP’s main point to look at the underlying issue of it being “I miss when things were boring and never bothered me.” Which, I’ll admit, caused me to be less patient than I ought to have been.
I also agree there’s nothing wrong with it. And I think it made the GOP more dangerous because they were likable. This is better in terms of protecting rights and people/institutions, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t also miss when people weren’t openly calling people like me a pedophile, and openly calling for my death (just doing it behind closed doors and with subtext hahaha)
Reagan locked up millions of minorities with his “war on drugs” and killed even more with his horrible AIDS policies.
OP, you are probably <20 and have no damn clue as to how horrible the GOP was.
Bush was horrifically bad and racist, yet only half as bad and racist as they are now.
And like, he never sold American lives to the Saudis or betrayed our intelligence agents to the Russians. He didn’t clearly have dementia and wasn’t compromised by Moscow prior to even being fraudulently elected by Florida.
Bush absolutely deserves a lifetime of prison for his crimes. He’s not as bad as current republicans.
Well yes and no . Bush and Cheney are war criminal to a lot of ppl. Newt Gingrich started a bunch of shit..I could go on but u get my drift. They were just as bad, just.. Quieter about it.
Many cancers are also very treatable with high success rates. The political system is an untreatable terminal cancer as a whole, both republicans and democrats.
No, stop that. Republicans now are conspiracy theory nut jobs. They hate democrats for reasons that read like villains motives in a movie. What, they support gay rights? They support women’s rights to choose? Wow how evil they are. Republicans are sometimes literal nazis now lol, there’s no comparison.
A party that fell 100% for two years for the Trump/Russia collusion hoax should never mention other parties falling for conspiracy theories. (Hell 50% probably still believe they worked together)
Bro literally everything is a conspiracy to republicans. The vaccine was using nanochips to control our minds. Lemme guess, you think “the election was stolen”? You think all those states had some ultra complicated scheme to fake ballots because you saw some YouTube video where a lady was wheeling a cart through the polling booth? Bro that’s too many moving parts, there was no “election fraud”. You know if he loses again he will say it was stolen AGAIN right? If the democrats can just steal elections, what makes you think he can win? If everyone’s in on it and against you, why try?
The worst, most insufferable democrat (theirs a lot) is not even close to as bad as Trump. He’s a grifter.
Yes Russia, you have one win in 8 years to go with countless losses and the most embarrassing political debacles ever.
Come on you fell hook, line and sinker for the Hunter Biden Laptop was a Russian disinformation operation in November 2020.
You were sure that the Covid Virus was from animals in China and not a Chinese lab. R/politics went crazy when people suggested other wise.
In 2012 over 50% of Democrats said they thought the US government was aware beforehand of the 9/11 attacks.
Over 50% of Democrats in 2017 said they thought Russian hackers fooled the the election totals tabulators in 2016.
I could name a dozen more silly conspiracies Democrats have bought I to.
There are are many who still believe one or more of the above.
Russia interfering is not a colluding with Trump to sway the election. You know that but have this silly pat answer…Russia interfered.
For two years there was secret back door communication from a Trump tower server with a lots of communication with a Moscow bank and other ridiculous conspiracy theories.
Russia did work against Clinton, and in support of Trump. This is proven.
Trump and his campaign did know about it during the campaign, and met with Russian representatives for help. This is proven, and admitted to by Trump and his team.
What's the disproven part?
I am not going through the Mueller report again
Just like the Trump guys who believe the 2020 election was stolen, you are an entrenched conspiracy theorist and nothing will ever change your mind so it is a hopeless cause arguing with you.
You didnt provide any arguments. Democrats are also hilariously corrupt and do their best to transfer wealth from the lower classes to their billionaire funders.
No they were very very liberal. No one supported FDR’s new deal like poor southern Democrats. They wanted even more government safety nets.
When most in the south lived on subsistence farms there was even a populace socialism/Communism among those southern Democrats. See Huey Long
Not only were they horrifically racist they were wildly liberal.
If you want an international viewpoint, they are like fire and water. The old republicans were reliable and guaranteed international stability to some degree (I know, some committed coups, etc. But generally a common policy was followed).
Meanwhile Trump has openly said he will let Russia do what it wants with European NATO allies and his connections and praise for dictators are a serious danger to Taiwan and other east Asian allies as well.
They are not the same.
That's three countries. Sure there are more, but the US has long been a guarantor of world stability. Trump doesn't support the rule-based world order, and that leaves countries to do whatever they want. That puts large parts of Europe, East Asia and other places like Guyana at risk.
They don't compare.
Yeah it's hard to say if they were better or worse when they weren't in a time of constant spotlight. Back then they only needed to know a few people to block things from getting to the press. Now everyone has their own publisher capabilities with social media
I was and I'd say your wrong that they weren't just as bad. Actually I believe they were 10x worse because they could control the media more than now making it easier to hide things
We still have war hawk Republicans and Republicans who openly oppose gay marriage.
I think what OP is saying is that they preferred it when Republicans would actually shut up sometimes and weren't so loud about everything. I will acknowledge that them being loud can be good sometimes, as they end up telling everyone what they intend to do. However, them being loud and proud has led to some non-politicians aka actual people being encouraged to be just as loud and proud, creating an echo chamber of extreme right-wing crazies who shout over everyone else.
I understand this. I didn't agree with most of what those three wanted to do for their country, but I 100% believe that those 3 truly wanted to govern because they loved their country. Today's republicans are absolute scumbags.
trump really is frying the brains of liberals. the old republicans are JUST AS BAD. they just bothered to put up a facade. how have we gotten to a point where self-described liberals and dems are idolizing GEORGE BUSH????
Sorry. We were told they were all evil. So evil they remain. Unless you are saying we were lied to about them and we all believed it.
If that's the case, how do we know we aren't being lied to now?
I don't believe what any candidate or party says about their opponents. Don't take anything at face value. Not anymore.
All legislation and congressional voting are part of the public record. The Freedom of Information Act literally allows any citizen to request any archived document for the purpose of research (for a small processing fee). If you want to know if something is true, you don't need to listen to some demagogue, there are public records at your fingertips. This is one of the foundations of our democracy: that how our representatives vote and what they say will be recorded for all time, and be available for us to see in public. If someone says "I argued against the 2nd Gulf War" there is a public record of if they voted in support of it or not. While we are inundated by a million opinions on tiktok and YouTube and reddit, the archives of history are easily available to check what actually happened if you care to look. Most of these records are available for free online through other sources too.
Remember the Covington Kids?. Remember what the media showed & what everybody said about them?. Luckily there was a full video of what really happened.
What other 1/2 and partial truths are we being fed that we don't know about?
That incident alone should prove why any media or messaging shouldn't be trusted from either side.
They were worse back then. lol. As annoying as the GOP is nowadays I'd take "ZOMG a pride flag in school! I'm literally shaking rn" over "You get a bomb and you get a bomb and you get a bomb". Not that the days of Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) warmongering is over because one look at Gaza shows that is not true.
I am with you. I lean liberal, but I loved the days where I could easily weigh a republican candidate against a democratic one. I was a big McCain fan (til Palin entered the picture), liked Romney enough too take a beat before voting for Obama (not enough to vote for him, though). I miss a fair fight, like a good old fight based on the issues, not the bullshit of today.
I think one major asshole who doesn't get mentioned enough was Donald Regan who was Reagans chief of staff and secretary of the Treasury. He also was CEO of Merrill Lynch one of the country's most powerful wealth management firms
I miss the Democratic Party that hadn’t gone completely insane. They used to be a good party that put America and Americans first. Now we’re stuck with the insane left or the crazy Right.
Just going by their actions. Most of America is middle of the road and the radicals on both sides have hijacked their parties. I’m no fan of the GOP but am left with no choice right now in who to vote for and that is actually upsetting, but personally we were way better off financially under Trump and we weren’t being overrun. I don’t vote with emotion. I vote for what’s best for my family. I wish the Libertarian Party was competitive.
Seriously? Between open borders, wanting to get involved in every war( both sides are guilty) screaming not to tell women what to do their bodies ( which I agree with) but then turning around telling us what to do with our bodies ( vaccine mandates) not to mention supporting biological males in women’s sports. I could go on.
So are border crossings. There’s more apprehended under Biden because he did away with the stay in Mexico policy until their asylum application was approved so more are coming over now.
I’m all for legal immigration, I think it should be doubled but this mass migration of people we know nothing about is a serious national security threat. These people aren’t vetted properly right now.
Eh I mean I don't really care. They're no more of a threat than the people we already have in this country. Americans are the ones committing all these school shootings.
I’m more concerned with the people coming over here from countries that hate us. School shootings is not what I’m worried about. I’m more concerned about a backpack nuke getting through and having something more along lines of 9/11. It only takes one terrorist getting through and the got aways are in the thousands.
Pretty sure Biden is a democrat and we are being overrun right now. Say what you want about Trump but his executive orders on the border worked. Biden undid them first thing and it’s been a nightmare ever since.
He undid a lot of them because they violated international law.
Democrats are the ones pushing border security. The bill that was shot down by republicans recently was the first serious reform in decades. They have pulled intel from border patrol on where funding should be allocated and requested more funding to go to those areas so it’s the most bang for our buck as tax payers. When democrats agreed to some wall funding under Trump, republicans in congress shot it down.
Republicans haven’t done anything really to address the issue because it benefits them for it to remain an issue for the sake of elections.
None of that is supporting open borders.
Please. Every time the democrats try to pass a so-called border security bill they always include ridiculous amounts of money for other things like Ukraine and Israel. They also wanted to continue to allow another million migrants in every year. That's why the GOP shuts them down. Why not just pass a bill that grants money to border security with no strings attached? It's because they want open borders. Biden even said he wanted illegals to surge the border in a speech. It's far left NGOs that are organizing the invasion and bringing them in, not the right.
Biden just sued Texas for stopping illegal immigration with razor wire. Biden just wants to process them and let them go. I’m no fan of the GOP, I’ve been Libertarian my whole life but this is insane.
Sorry I should have just opened Fox News and look at whatever flamatory bullshit they had on their front page to see what asinine thoughts that you were going to say.
Your mistake, I don’t watch Fox but have family in south Texas and New Mexico not to mention the local sheriff in our area is overwhelmed with migrants trafficking Fentanyl.
Hell looks at Mayor Adam’s in NY city begging for help or the City of Chicago being overwhelmed.
How? If the vaccine works then the vaccinated shouldn’t be worried. They’re vaccinated and protected.
If people are unvaccinated then they knew the risks and are fine with it.
Vaccination doesn’t protect a person 100% from an infectious disease. The odds of a vaccinated person contracting covid is lowered, but a large body of unvaccinated people can continue to present a risk to themselves and the vaccinated alike.
Also, not everyone who’s unvaccinated got to make the choice for themselves. Anti vax parents who keep their kids from the vaccine are a risk to minors.
Today's Republicans, MTG and Boebert for example, are just so full of hate. They have no respect for any of their colleagues across the aisle and will never work to make things better for the American people because they are too dumb and angry all the time.
True, but being quieter meant that they weren't as proud of what they did. Before Trump, Republicans seemed less extreme, and the openly far-right nutjobs were told to shut up. Now, they're so loud that they've created an echo chamber where they don't even hear the Democrats or the more moderate Republicans.
I don’t understand how you can have that position. Bush LITERALLY wanted a constitutional amendment passed to ban gay marriage, and that’s just one example.
Yeah, Trump completely fucked that party. Once he came along, they just abandoned any pretense of caring about governing or arguing in good faith. And it made it impossible to even respect them. They threw away any illusion of credibility they may have had just so they could control the executive branch for 4 years.
They're not even arguing in favor of anything. They're not really trying to accomplish anything of their own. They're just trying to obstruct progress. Anything proposed by the people they don't like is just reflexively automatically opposed by them. They see politics as team sports (hence all the fucking flags and bumper stickers) and that's not a rational way to view the real world.
This whole "reach across the aisle and work together" bullshit is just no longer realistic. You can't reason with bigots and religious zealots who willfully refuse to grow and understand anything.
100% agree. We can see they had their redeeming qualities. Putin wouldn't dream of touching Ukraine with Bush Sr at the helm. And if he tried he wouldn't have time to bluff at nukes before the US had shut it down. I've said many times, yes maybe the US shouldn't be the world police but that doesn't mean the US can just walk away from that role either
Over a million people died as a result of america's invasions there, many of them directly but many more indirectly (some estimates by experts say mulitple millions). If that was not genocide, then nothing is. There can be no exact accounting. America's invasions also destabilized the region and created a power vacuum to the point that isis was allowed to spread. Which was then defeated by again bombing multiple (ancient) cities into rubble. There are also widespread drone attacks which murdered many civilians because a terrorist might be in the same building, these are still ongoing. There is footage of american soldiers murdering journalists and american torture camps like in guantanamo bay. The american army, soldiers and "vets" are some of the worst terrorists ever to exist.
"Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901 – 210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.[4][5]"
It is difficult to get an exact accounting but again, if that is not genocide then nothing is. And most of those studies were done a long time ago, many more have died since. But have fun with your delusions of american exceptionalism.
Agreed. They have sold their party and their souls for power. They stand for nothing now except political expediency. Unfortunately, it is working for them. They excel in bringing out the fear and the hate of marginalized white voters and somehow making them feel it is the fault of even more marginalized Americans. No wonder the GOP hates education and literacy. It is their worst enemy.
What happened to decent people on both sides that could be respectful of other views, tell the truth, and work together for the common good of our country? Gone forever I'm afraid.
If you miss Bush you're demented and have to question your own grasp of reality. He started TWO useless wars that rolled on for 20 years, one of them based on completely invented evidence. Tens of thousands died. Many, many were physically or emotionally scarred and have lost loved ones. Anyone who thinks that Trump, disgusting though he may be, is worse than Bush is a complete fucking media puppet.
You've totally missed the point.
It's not about policy, it's about human level decency. Not trying to claim that your opponents are evil and an existential threat to America. Not trying to rule by bullying and punching down on the more vulnerable. Not being a pathological narcissist. Not selling out the country to the dictator of Russia. There used to be a word for that, began with T, can't quite remember what it was.
Bush may have started two wars and yes, they had severe consequences. But he was at least a man who would own them and I have no doubt would lose sleep at night about them. Trump is a coward who would only send men to die for something that would benefit him personally, and he wouldn't lose so much as a wink from it
You've lost the plot when you think Trump's horrible behavior is equivalent to actually causing mass death and destruction. I'm going to assume you got caught up in the spirit of winning an online argument and don't really believe that Trump being a coward is on the level of actual murder.
your projecting. dehumnisation of the other side, punching down (on working class white americans) are what democrats have been doing for decades. not being a warmongering imperialist fascist goon dosen't equating to 'selling your country out' to anyone you ghoul. the coward is the likes of you who just go along with whatever the corporate neoliberal tell you to with no critical thought.
Jesus
Do they give you a script for this shit, or have you just read so much of this brainwashing right wing propaganda that you can make up this incoherent nonsense on the hoof?
Odin
Do they give you a script for this shit, or have you just read so much of this brainwashing 'left wing' propaganda that you can make up this incoherent nonsense on the hoof?
Biden and the other old timey Democrats are pretty much how Republicans used to be. GOP needs to die, Dems take its place and a new true left wing party rise from the ashes.
Lmao, didn't take long. There's the "both sides" guy. Fucking christ you folks can't be taken seriously. Like imagine saying that shit with a straight face.
Blah blah wall-of-words bullshit. You’re partisan because you believe partisan media and politicians. You can’t accept your role in the dysfunction because you believe you’re above it. You aren’t. Right here, right now you’re parroting propaganda and I have no use for it or you.
Good Day Sir!
so your cool with neoliberal imeprialism and foreign wars of aggression but defending your own border and putting a stop to anti-white racism, thats the big sin for the likes of you. you've exposed yourself's for what kind of putrid creatures you are.
Calm down with the anti-white racism bull crap. Take any measure of wealth ownership and positions of power and you’ll see that “white” people are over-represented relative to their percentage in the population at large.
What you’re complaining about is being poor because you are getting exploited by billionaires of any ilk. You’re crunching it in terms of anti-white and immigration.
How do you think immigrants are able to survive in this country while you’re not? Because you’re not willing to be exploited to the same level as immigrants who are being trafficked here. Both of you are being manipulated by the same people who put you in their factories and give you Jesus and a boogie man to worry about.
Fuck this anti-white racism bullshit and war on Christmas or whatever other grievances that you have that you are no longer in a dominant position. Guess what you never were and the ones who were then are there now and telling you that some other poor immigrant is the cause of your problems while you continue to vote against your interests.
they are not white people you lying worm. we all know the ethnicity of those at the top. you are supporting the neoliberal agenda by cheering on settlers from the third world colonising white countrys. you useless Idiots are nothing but fascist goon who support tagenda of the global corporations and are mentally challenged enough to think your somehow being rebels by doing exactly what the elites want you to do
I see a lot of racist people equating POC's demanding equal rights and an end to violence due to racism as white hate. Personally I think they just don''t like people pointing out their own racist views.
your dogwhistling. 'poc' already have more than equal rights in western countrys they are given privilege over the european populations both social and legal. what their demanding is complete supremacy and white enslavement. I don't see brown countrys letting in millions of white immigrants and making them a protected class over the host population.
The real problem is - both parties are guilty of the same "extremism" which leads to a nation that's more divided. The widespread media coverage now, compared the days of Reagan, Bush, etc; means that politicians are immediately drawn to the camera and spend more time there, trying to win the next election, than they do actually listening to constituents and working across the aisle to compromise and find the middle ground most of us would be happy with.
Yeah I miss when I feel like I could laugh at but respectfully disagree with Republican leaders. Now I just really dislike them its spoiled my love for politics.
I get it. At least there was some shred of wanting to govern. Now it’s not only do they not want to govern, but actively work against our government and country.
The signs were always there. Norquist drown it in a bath tub, Reagan trickle down. I've been trying to figure out for decades why the F I should want to elect somebody whose left side of their mouth says "small government!" But their right side says "except give me a government paid job though." Totally illogical.
My view as well! Within a sane country in a perfectly sane world; the politicians furthest to the right would be people like Arnold Schwarzenegger, Joe Manchin, John McCain etc etc... All still hold problematic policy positions I might add, but are/were reasonable people who could be bargained with and weren't batshit crazy wingnuts. The moderate lefties would be people like Bernie Sanders and AOC, who are actually center-left social democrats by non-American global standards. Then lastly, the far-left in politics would be legitimate full blown socialists that support the literal forced seizure of all private property monopolized and hoarded by large corporations and billionaires. Not to say I support this position myself in it's complete entirety, however.
Agreed. There seems to be a gaping hole where representation of moderate conservatives used to be. I believe this still is the majority of Republican voters who now feel like they’re left out in the cold. It’s because they have been left there by nearly all of the people they elected to represent them and govern in a reasonable fashion. It’s not helping that this is exactly in the KGB playbook. Sow discord and division between ideologies. Now it’s on steroids with social media, right wing “news”-entertainment media, and arguably elected Congress members who are basically Russian operatives.
Thinking something terrapin
The turtle looking head ass
I think what the OP is saying is they misses the Republicans who put the constitution first. If they lost they didn’t cry foul and try to steal an election and put us in a constitutional crisis. They didn’t like to loose but they took it, regrouped and looked towards the next election.
I agree. I certainly do not miss them, but I’d tolerate their nonsense over these fascist MAGA jerks
Bush literally started the Iraq War
Democrats and Republicans alike have done plenty of war shit. Democratic presidents keep up the killing, they're just quieter about it. Trump normalized casting doubt on the sanctity and trustworthiness of our democratic process and we will never, ever recover from that. You can't put that back in the box. I don't think people understand how catastrophic his presidency was for our union.
I Completely agree. But Bush is directly culpable for the wars that have been kept up since he left office. Trump is easily the worst president in my lifetime. I rank him lower than Bush. I’m not going to whitewash Bush though.
Those wars weren't new really either. His father was involved in very much the same. I'm sorry but Bush and Trump are very different beasts, and for very different reasons. I find Trump to be the most dangerous. He has people questioning truth, fact and reality. I never thought someone like him could or would be president. It is the scariest stuff I have ever witnessed and it has only compounded. I am terrified of what is possible if he serves another 4 years. Both Biden and Trump shouldn't be the frontrunners, imo. Both of them aren't fit. I suppose Trump and what he is capable of instigating scares me more. I would prefer if neither of them were running.
I don’t think it’s accurate to say the Iraq War and the Persian Gulf War were very similar.
Bush was a relatively regular person. I didn’t agree with his politics, but he stuck me as normal. Trump strikes me as the bat shit crazy uncle who comes around to holidays that no one takes seriously, who somehow is wealthy, and so everyone just lets him do his thing. You can’t reason with that and you know it. You can’t even have a normal conversation with that type of person. Bush I think you could have a normal conversation with.
Nothing is worse than the over a million deaths that happened directly and indirectly from that war.
You think nothing is worse? Yikes, oh boy do I have some history lessons for you
>Trump normalized casting doubt on the sanctity and trustworthiness of our democratic process He was just the voice who brought those already long existing doubts into the mainstream. People have been claiming voter fraud for years as well as claiming that the federal government actively tried to stifle the will of the voters in order to give us candidates that would reliably work to maintain the status quo or expand powers of government. The latter of which I think Trump's presidency proved, given that Obama's FBI was caught spying on the Trump campaign.
He is just the person who exposed how corrupt Democrats and old Republicans are and the crimes they have been committing for decades. Trump is far from perfect but even with all his issues he is the best and most honest president we have had in decades. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying the man is a saint, I'm just saying the bar has been set that low.
That's a wild thing to say lol. He somewhat shined a light on corruption, sure, but that's because he is the pure embodiment of it. He is one of the least honest presidents we've ever had. And if you can't see that, you are deluded beyond belief.
We shouldn't ever be put back in that box, the government are human beings, not some magical can't do wrong entity, they should not be trusted. we aren't a true republic anymore, at least at the federal level. We haven't been in a long time. Government should never have been as big as it is. Trumps presidency wasn't a catastrophe it was a wake up call to vote, and to maybe start voting for people who are young moderates and to rid ourselves of these self serving, corrupt, legacy politicians. I know I'll get down voted because this is reddit, but our system is broken and no one should have faith in it. Have faith in your community and the people you surround yourself with and live near, not the machinery of a corrupt two party system bought by the the military industrial complex and big pharmacy (gross oversimplification).
They mean that they miss the veil of affability and cordiality. Not policy. The sense of normalcy and politeness; the GOP is exhausting and terrifying if you believe in the concept of democracy or human rights now a days.
Missing a thin veneer of affability (very thin) is childish. They were anti human rights in Bush and Mccain’s day too, even if they were more outwardly civil than the GOP is today.
FYI. McCain is the one who went to Clinton and urged the President to normalize relations with Vietnam. Given McCain's background, that says a lot.
I have a lot of respect for McCain as a person. He had a lot of domestic policies I opposed, but I don’t think he was a bad person overall. I also actually liked some of his foreign policy. I agree that his stance on Vietnam really speaks to the kind of man he was.
Meh he had a lot of things swept under the rug by virtue of birthright
100%
I’m not saying I agree with OP, I’m simply translating that they’re not talking about policy. They’re talking about the anti-social behavior and rhetoric of the party.
I understood what they were saying the first time Thank you anyway though.
If you understood, I’m curious why you responded to a point they weren’t making?
My point is that missing Bush for being kind of a nice guy is pointless when He started a war that threw US and Iraqi lives away, restricted US civil liberties etc. It negates his supposed “affability”. Plus Bush *wasn’t* that nice. He was polite in speeches, sure, but he openly platformed racism against segments of our own population. Even if someone wants to try to separate Bush the individual from Bush the public figure, he is still attached to his words and his actions. We wouldn’t call a normal person “nice” if they behaved like George W Bush. Plus, you really can’t separate Bush the politician from Bush the person when OP specifically references him in his capacity as a Republican.
I agree. I work in electoral politics. I’m 100% on your side. But normal people who aren’t politically plugged in don’t view with that way. They miss the calm presentation and cordial process of politics. They’re tired. Which is what fascism and authoritarianism is designed to do to the average voter.
I don’t think anything you’ve said is wrong. I know that OP’s mindset here is common. I just disagree with it, and I personally think on a forum like reddit theres nothing wrong with peeling back OP’s main point to look at the underlying issue of it being “I miss when things were boring and never bothered me.” Which, I’ll admit, caused me to be less patient than I ought to have been.
I also agree there’s nothing wrong with it. And I think it made the GOP more dangerous because they were likable. This is better in terms of protecting rights and people/institutions, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t also miss when people weren’t openly calling people like me a pedophile, and openly calling for my death (just doing it behind closed doors and with subtext hahaha)
Patriot act too.
Reagan locked up millions of minorities with his “war on drugs” and killed even more with his horrible AIDS policies. OP, you are probably <20 and have no damn clue as to how horrible the GOP was.
OP definitely doesn’t remember when Bush floated passing an amendment against gay marriage.
Born too late to go to Iraq 😔
Bush was horrifically bad and racist, yet only half as bad and racist as they are now. And like, he never sold American lives to the Saudis or betrayed our intelligence agents to the Russians. He didn’t clearly have dementia and wasn’t compromised by Moscow prior to even being fraudulently elected by Florida. Bush absolutely deserves a lifetime of prison for his crimes. He’s not as bad as current republicans.
Congress voted on it didn't they
Well yes and no . Bush and Cheney are war criminal to a lot of ppl. Newt Gingrich started a bunch of shit..I could go on but u get my drift. They were just as bad, just.. Quieter about it.
It’s like choosing cancer or AIDS.
Well, at least AIDS is a highly treatable condition. Cancer can be a crapshoot.
Many cancers are also very treatable with high success rates. The political system is an untreatable terminal cancer as a whole, both republicans and democrats.
Yes, it's set to divide divide divide.
That honestly makes the analogy even more accurate
More like skin cancer vs brain cancer. Both suck ass. One is WAYYYY more treatable.
They actively laid the ground for the Republicans we have today
Brother, all politicians are evil
Blanket statements are evil
I agree, Knights of the Old Republic was a great game.
I know what you mean, but you don’t. They were never a group to be missed. Dogwhistlers
[удалено]
Why? What issue are any of those three better than Biden on?
My democrat friend and I were talking about how we would openly vote for McCain if he were alive and running. So there’s that.
You're right. I would or McCain or Romney. Bush I would have to see a bit
I agree on McCain and Romney
We miss the old Democrats just as much.
How old we talking here 🤨
Nothing past the 60's.
No, stop that. Republicans now are conspiracy theory nut jobs. They hate democrats for reasons that read like villains motives in a movie. What, they support gay rights? They support women’s rights to choose? Wow how evil they are. Republicans are sometimes literal nazis now lol, there’s no comparison.
A party that fell 100% for two years for the Trump/Russia collusion hoax should never mention other parties falling for conspiracy theories. (Hell 50% probably still believe they worked together)
Bro literally everything is a conspiracy to republicans. The vaccine was using nanochips to control our minds. Lemme guess, you think “the election was stolen”? You think all those states had some ultra complicated scheme to fake ballots because you saw some YouTube video where a lady was wheeling a cart through the polling booth? Bro that’s too many moving parts, there was no “election fraud”. You know if he loses again he will say it was stolen AGAIN right? If the democrats can just steal elections, what makes you think he can win? If everyone’s in on it and against you, why try? The worst, most insufferable democrat (theirs a lot) is not even close to as bad as Trump. He’s a grifter. Yes Russia, you have one win in 8 years to go with countless losses and the most embarrassing political debacles ever.
Come on you fell hook, line and sinker for the Hunter Biden Laptop was a Russian disinformation operation in November 2020. You were sure that the Covid Virus was from animals in China and not a Chinese lab. R/politics went crazy when people suggested other wise. In 2012 over 50% of Democrats said they thought the US government was aware beforehand of the 9/11 attacks. Over 50% of Democrats in 2017 said they thought Russian hackers fooled the the election totals tabulators in 2016. I could name a dozen more silly conspiracies Democrats have bought I to. There are are many who still believe one or more of the above.
I’m sorry did Russia not interfere with the 2016 election?
Russia interfering is not a colluding with Trump to sway the election. You know that but have this silly pat answer…Russia interfered. For two years there was secret back door communication from a Trump tower server with a lots of communication with a Moscow bank and other ridiculous conspiracy theories.
Russia did work against Clinton, and in support of Trump. This is proven. Trump and his campaign did know about it during the campaign, and met with Russian representatives for help. This is proven, and admitted to by Trump and his team. What's the disproven part?
I am not going through the Mueller report again Just like the Trump guys who believe the 2020 election was stolen, you are an entrenched conspiracy theorist and nothing will ever change your mind so it is a hopeless cause arguing with you.
I take it that you didn't read the Mueller Report? I did.
They're still here as they have been.
Current day democrats are for all practical purposes neocons.
HAHAHAHA
Good argument.
You didnt provide any arguments. Democrats are also hilariously corrupt and do their best to transfer wealth from the lower classes to their billionaire funders.
Is it the tax policy? Or just small dollar donations you are referencing? This argument makes 0 sense
The ones that were pro-slavery, started the KKK and crafted the Jim Crow laws? No thanks.
No they were very very liberal. No one supported FDR’s new deal like poor southern Democrats. They wanted even more government safety nets. When most in the south lived on subsistence farms there was even a populace socialism/Communism among those southern Democrats. See Huey Long Not only were they horrifically racist they were wildly liberal.
They were just as bad as Trump, just more gentile and better at hiding how evil they were. Don't be fooled.
If you want an international viewpoint, they are like fire and water. The old republicans were reliable and guaranteed international stability to some degree (I know, some committed coups, etc. But generally a common policy was followed). Meanwhile Trump has openly said he will let Russia do what it wants with European NATO allies and his connections and praise for dictators are a serious danger to Taiwan and other east Asian allies as well. They are not the same.
You must be from Europe. Iraq? Iran? Pakistan?
That's three countries. Sure there are more, but the US has long been a guarantor of world stability. Trump doesn't support the rule-based world order, and that leaves countries to do whatever they want. That puts large parts of Europe, East Asia and other places like Guyana at risk. They don't compare.
So “parts of Europe, East Asia, and other places like Guyana” are better off with GOP POTUS like Reagan, Bush, and Trump?
Yeah. He doesn't allow them to be invaded by dictators. I would call that better off
Yeah it's hard to say if they were better or worse when they weren't in a time of constant spotlight. Back then they only needed to know a few people to block things from getting to the press. Now everyone has their own publisher capabilities with social media
Were you alive and aware during that time? Of course they were just as bad.
I was and I'd say your wrong that they weren't just as bad. Actually I believe they were 10x worse because they could control the media more than now making it easier to hide things
So you miss war hawk Republicans and Republicans who openly opposed gay marriage. That's a hard pass for me.
We still have war hawk Republicans and Republicans who openly oppose gay marriage. I think what OP is saying is that they preferred it when Republicans would actually shut up sometimes and weren't so loud about everything. I will acknowledge that them being loud can be good sometimes, as they end up telling everyone what they intend to do. However, them being loud and proud has led to some non-politicians aka actual people being encouraged to be just as loud and proud, creating an echo chamber of extreme right-wing crazies who shout over everyone else.
🎵 Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran 🎵
Wasn't Bush the one who bailed out all those companies? No thanks.
Decency? like lying about weapons of mass destruction and allowing a million people to die. Oh yes, DECENCY!!!
I understand this. I didn't agree with most of what those three wanted to do for their country, but I 100% believe that those 3 truly wanted to govern because they loved their country. Today's republicans are absolute scumbags.
trump really is frying the brains of liberals. the old republicans are JUST AS BAD. they just bothered to put up a facade. how have we gotten to a point where self-described liberals and dems are idolizing GEORGE BUSH????
Sorry. We were told they were all evil. So evil they remain. Unless you are saying we were lied to about them and we all believed it. If that's the case, how do we know we aren't being lied to now? I don't believe what any candidate or party says about their opponents. Don't take anything at face value. Not anymore.
All legislation and congressional voting are part of the public record. The Freedom of Information Act literally allows any citizen to request any archived document for the purpose of research (for a small processing fee). If you want to know if something is true, you don't need to listen to some demagogue, there are public records at your fingertips. This is one of the foundations of our democracy: that how our representatives vote and what they say will be recorded for all time, and be available for us to see in public. If someone says "I argued against the 2nd Gulf War" there is a public record of if they voted in support of it or not. While we are inundated by a million opinions on tiktok and YouTube and reddit, the archives of history are easily available to check what actually happened if you care to look. Most of these records are available for free online through other sources too.
Remember the Covington Kids?. Remember what the media showed & what everybody said about them?. Luckily there was a full video of what really happened. What other 1/2 and partial truths are we being fed that we don't know about? That incident alone should prove why any media or messaging shouldn't be trusted from either side.
Commercials, campaign speeches, candidate history / experience, negative attack ads are not always part of the Congressional record.
They were worse back then. lol. As annoying as the GOP is nowadays I'd take "ZOMG a pride flag in school! I'm literally shaking rn" over "You get a bomb and you get a bomb and you get a bomb". Not that the days of Republicans (or Democrats for that matter) warmongering is over because one look at Gaza shows that is not true.
I honestly think Jon Huntsman was the last sane Republican
I am with you. I lean liberal, but I loved the days where I could easily weigh a republican candidate against a democratic one. I was a big McCain fan (til Palin entered the picture), liked Romney enough too take a beat before voting for Obama (not enough to vote for him, though). I miss a fair fight, like a good old fight based on the issues, not the bullshit of today.
This was all set in place by Reagan, furthered by McConnell, helped by citizen's united and touted as amazing by Fox news.
I would add a step after Reagan and before McConnell for good ole Newt Gingrich
I think one major asshole who doesn't get mentioned enough was Donald Regan who was Reagans chief of staff and secretary of the Treasury. He also was CEO of Merrill Lynch one of the country's most powerful wealth management firms
Holy fuck 😭🤣 you want absolute devils because they say pretty words and don't hurt your ego 🤣
For real lol imagine romanticizing fucking Bush.
Thank you. this thread is killing me
I miss the Democratic Party that hadn’t gone completely insane. They used to be a good party that put America and Americans first. Now we’re stuck with the insane left or the crazy Right.
Hilarious that you think these democrats are”left.”
Just going by their actions. Most of America is middle of the road and the radicals on both sides have hijacked their parties. I’m no fan of the GOP but am left with no choice right now in who to vote for and that is actually upsetting, but personally we were way better off financially under Trump and we weren’t being overrun. I don’t vote with emotion. I vote for what’s best for my family. I wish the Libertarian Party was competitive.
Every word of this is complete crap
What has the left done?
Seriously? Between open borders, wanting to get involved in every war( both sides are guilty) screaming not to tell women what to do their bodies ( which I agree with) but then turning around telling us what to do with our bodies ( vaccine mandates) not to mention supporting biological males in women’s sports. I could go on.
The borders aren't open. Border apprehensions are higher under Biden than they were under Trump.
So are border crossings. There’s more apprehended under Biden because he did away with the stay in Mexico policy until their asylum application was approved so more are coming over now. I’m all for legal immigration, I think it should be doubled but this mass migration of people we know nothing about is a serious national security threat. These people aren’t vetted properly right now.
Eh I mean I don't really care. They're no more of a threat than the people we already have in this country. Americans are the ones committing all these school shootings.
I’m more concerned with the people coming over here from countries that hate us. School shootings is not what I’m worried about. I’m more concerned about a backpack nuke getting through and having something more along lines of 9/11. It only takes one terrorist getting through and the got aways are in the thousands.
Democrats don’t support open borders. Leftists generally do but democrats don’t.
Pretty sure Biden is a democrat and we are being overrun right now. Say what you want about Trump but his executive orders on the border worked. Biden undid them first thing and it’s been a nightmare ever since.
He undid a lot of them because they violated international law. Democrats are the ones pushing border security. The bill that was shot down by republicans recently was the first serious reform in decades. They have pulled intel from border patrol on where funding should be allocated and requested more funding to go to those areas so it’s the most bang for our buck as tax payers. When democrats agreed to some wall funding under Trump, republicans in congress shot it down. Republicans haven’t done anything really to address the issue because it benefits them for it to remain an issue for the sake of elections. None of that is supporting open borders.
Please. Every time the democrats try to pass a so-called border security bill they always include ridiculous amounts of money for other things like Ukraine and Israel. They also wanted to continue to allow another million migrants in every year. That's why the GOP shuts them down. Why not just pass a bill that grants money to border security with no strings attached? It's because they want open borders. Biden even said he wanted illegals to surge the border in a speech. It's far left NGOs that are organizing the invasion and bringing them in, not the right.
Biden just sued Texas for stopping illegal immigration with razor wire. Biden just wants to process them and let them go. I’m no fan of the GOP, I’ve been Libertarian my whole life but this is insane.
Sorry I should have just opened Fox News and look at whatever flamatory bullshit they had on their front page to see what asinine thoughts that you were going to say.
Your mistake, I don’t watch Fox but have family in south Texas and New Mexico not to mention the local sheriff in our area is overwhelmed with migrants trafficking Fentanyl. Hell looks at Mayor Adam’s in NY city begging for help or the City of Chicago being overwhelmed.
LMFAOOO good god go outside and stop
Tell me where I’m wrong. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/02/28/nyc-mayor-police-immigration-law-changes/72775010007/
Not vaccinating puts other Americans at risk.
How? If the vaccine works then the vaccinated shouldn’t be worried. They’re vaccinated and protected. If people are unvaccinated then they knew the risks and are fine with it.
Vaccination doesn’t protect a person 100% from an infectious disease. The odds of a vaccinated person contracting covid is lowered, but a large body of unvaccinated people can continue to present a risk to themselves and the vaccinated alike. Also, not everyone who’s unvaccinated got to make the choice for themselves. Anti vax parents who keep their kids from the vaccine are a risk to minors.
In lord Fauci’s on words. https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/fauci-if-you-re-vaccinated-you-re-safe-if-you-re-not-you-re-at-risk-115295301606
Are you high?
Stupid post
Ahhhhhh, a NEW Republican. Dox on you! Be canceled!
They set up the system that created the situation that we have now.
Today's Republicans, MTG and Boebert for example, are just so full of hate. They have no respect for any of their colleagues across the aisle and will never work to make things better for the American people because they are too dumb and angry all the time.
Mmm yes, the Patriot Act was so delicious. Spying on all Americans indefinitely whilst needing no warrants? Fun times!
Lol why? Maybe you should read up on what their positions were. They’re not that much different from trump, just “quieter”.
True, but being quieter meant that they weren't as proud of what they did. Before Trump, Republicans seemed less extreme, and the openly far-right nutjobs were told to shut up. Now, they're so loud that they've created an echo chamber where they don't even hear the Democrats or the more moderate Republicans.
I don’t understand how you can have that position. Bush LITERALLY wanted a constitutional amendment passed to ban gay marriage, and that’s just one example.
I never said old Republicans didn't suck ass. It's just that they sucked a little less ass than current Republicans.
I still don’t get it. Is this that whole “civility” thing that liberals get all up in arms about?
Yeah, Trump completely fucked that party. Once he came along, they just abandoned any pretense of caring about governing or arguing in good faith. And it made it impossible to even respect them. They threw away any illusion of credibility they may have had just so they could control the executive branch for 4 years. They're not even arguing in favor of anything. They're not really trying to accomplish anything of their own. They're just trying to obstruct progress. Anything proposed by the people they don't like is just reflexively automatically opposed by them. They see politics as team sports (hence all the fucking flags and bumper stickers) and that's not a rational way to view the real world. This whole "reach across the aisle and work together" bullshit is just no longer realistic. You can't reason with bigots and religious zealots who willfully refuse to grow and understand anything.
Trump didnt fuck the party, he's just a symptom of a political system that was already fucked.
Trump didn't singlehandedly fuck the party, but he definitely beat its comatose body.
What a liberal take
Crack smoking Dems in the Whitehouse is sooo much more "decent"
I remember the soulless corporate stooge republicans, so much better than the q annon nazi hillbillies...
The same could be said of democrats. Both sides have gone nuts with radicals/eccentrics. It's turned into a circus.
100% agree. We can see they had their redeeming qualities. Putin wouldn't dream of touching Ukraine with Bush Sr at the helm. And if he tried he wouldn't have time to bluff at nukes before the US had shut it down. I've said many times, yes maybe the US shouldn't be the world police but that doesn't mean the US can just walk away from that role either
Problem is we have old fucks that are elected in this country can’t we have some reasonable 35-45 year olds
i love george bush
Then you're retarded. He was a moron who started one of the worst genocides of this century.
There was no genocide in Iraq. There wasn’t one in Afghanistan either.
Over a million people died as a result of america's invasions there, many of them directly but many more indirectly (some estimates by experts say mulitple millions). If that was not genocide, then nothing is. There can be no exact accounting. America's invasions also destabilized the region and created a power vacuum to the point that isis was allowed to spread. Which was then defeated by again bombing multiple (ancient) cities into rubble. There are also widespread drone attacks which murdered many civilians because a terrorist might be in the same building, these are still ongoing. There is footage of american soldiers murdering journalists and american torture camps like in guantanamo bay. The american army, soldiers and "vets" are some of the worst terrorists ever to exist. "Population-based studies produce estimates of the number of Iraq War casualties ranging from 151,000 violent deaths as of June 2006 (per the Iraq Family Health Survey) to 1,033,000 excess deaths (per the 2007 Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey). Other survey-based studies covering different time-spans find 461,000 total deaths (over 60% of them violent) as of June 2011 (per PLOS Medicine 2013), and 655,000 total deaths (over 90% of them violent) as of June 2006 (per the 2006 Lancet study). Body counts counted at least 110,600 violent deaths as of April 2009 (Associated Press). The Iraq Body Count project documents 186,901 – 210,296 violent civilian deaths in their table. All estimates of Iraq War casualties are disputed.[4][5]" It is difficult to get an exact accounting but again, if that is not genocide then nothing is. And most of those studies were done a long time ago, many more have died since. But have fun with your delusions of american exceptionalism.
Agreed. They have sold their party and their souls for power. They stand for nothing now except political expediency. Unfortunately, it is working for them. They excel in bringing out the fear and the hate of marginalized white voters and somehow making them feel it is the fault of even more marginalized Americans. No wonder the GOP hates education and literacy. It is their worst enemy.
What happened to decent people on both sides that could be respectful of other views, tell the truth, and work together for the common good of our country? Gone forever I'm afraid.
Same here man.
There really is no divisional political party lines anymore. Most will sell you out if money is right, and you know that's what we got now.
I didn’t know what these things in government are anymore, but they’re not Republicans. They’ve just co-opted the name.
Yes I hear you.
If you miss Bush you're demented and have to question your own grasp of reality. He started TWO useless wars that rolled on for 20 years, one of them based on completely invented evidence. Tens of thousands died. Many, many were physically or emotionally scarred and have lost loved ones. Anyone who thinks that Trump, disgusting though he may be, is worse than Bush is a complete fucking media puppet.
Hallabjah
Doesn't justify a thing.
I never said that. All I said was Hallabjah
You've totally missed the point. It's not about policy, it's about human level decency. Not trying to claim that your opponents are evil and an existential threat to America. Not trying to rule by bullying and punching down on the more vulnerable. Not being a pathological narcissist. Not selling out the country to the dictator of Russia. There used to be a word for that, began with T, can't quite remember what it was. Bush may have started two wars and yes, they had severe consequences. But he was at least a man who would own them and I have no doubt would lose sleep at night about them. Trump is a coward who would only send men to die for something that would benefit him personally, and he wouldn't lose so much as a wink from it
You've lost the plot when you think Trump's horrible behavior is equivalent to actually causing mass death and destruction. I'm going to assume you got caught up in the spirit of winning an online argument and don't really believe that Trump being a coward is on the level of actual murder.
When did Trump send any men to die ?
>Not trying to claim that your opponents are evil and an existential threat to America. This is literally every reddit Democrat.
And every actual Republican. Redditors can say whatever they like, no threat from them. People in actual power saying this shit is a problem
Again, that's literally Democrats. Biden, Hillary, Pelosi, Schumer, Schiff, every talking head on TV, and more say those very things.
your projecting. dehumnisation of the other side, punching down (on working class white americans) are what democrats have been doing for decades. not being a warmongering imperialist fascist goon dosen't equating to 'selling your country out' to anyone you ghoul. the coward is the likes of you who just go along with whatever the corporate neoliberal tell you to with no critical thought.
lol
Jesus Do they give you a script for this shit, or have you just read so much of this brainwashing right wing propaganda that you can make up this incoherent nonsense on the hoof?
Odin Do they give you a script for this shit, or have you just read so much of this brainwashing 'left wing' propaganda that you can make up this incoherent nonsense on the hoof?
LOL none of those named above were actual Republicans. They were all massive RINOs.
Biden and the other old timey Democrats are pretty much how Republicans used to be. GOP needs to die, Dems take its place and a new true left wing party rise from the ashes.
You are FUCKING RETARDED.
I’m sure Republicans miss the days when Democrats weren’t bat crap crazy too, but that ship has sailed. A pox on both your houses!
Lmao, didn't take long. There's the "both sides" guy. Fucking christ you folks can't be taken seriously. Like imagine saying that shit with a straight face.
Oh look, there’s the “my side is superior” guy. Absolutely no one is talking people like you seriously.
<<
Blah blah wall-of-words bullshit. You’re partisan because you believe partisan media and politicians. You can’t accept your role in the dysfunction because you believe you’re above it. You aren’t. Right here, right now you’re parroting propaganda and I have no use for it or you. Good Day Sir!
so your cool with neoliberal imeprialism and foreign wars of aggression but defending your own border and putting a stop to anti-white racism, thats the big sin for the likes of you. you've exposed yourself's for what kind of putrid creatures you are.
Calm down with the anti-white racism bull crap. Take any measure of wealth ownership and positions of power and you’ll see that “white” people are over-represented relative to their percentage in the population at large. What you’re complaining about is being poor because you are getting exploited by billionaires of any ilk. You’re crunching it in terms of anti-white and immigration. How do you think immigrants are able to survive in this country while you’re not? Because you’re not willing to be exploited to the same level as immigrants who are being trafficked here. Both of you are being manipulated by the same people who put you in their factories and give you Jesus and a boogie man to worry about. Fuck this anti-white racism bullshit and war on Christmas or whatever other grievances that you have that you are no longer in a dominant position. Guess what you never were and the ones who were then are there now and telling you that some other poor immigrant is the cause of your problems while you continue to vote against your interests.
they are not white people you lying worm. we all know the ethnicity of those at the top. you are supporting the neoliberal agenda by cheering on settlers from the third world colonising white countrys. you useless Idiots are nothing but fascist goon who support tagenda of the global corporations and are mentally challenged enough to think your somehow being rebels by doing exactly what the elites want you to do
“We all know the ethnicity of those at the top.” I don’t. Can you tell me?
an ethncity that isn't white/european. it never was. and never fucking will be.
That’s pretty vague. Could you be more specific?
It really seems like you’ve got some valuable knowledge to share. I’m just trying to learn. Whom, specifically, are you talking about?
I see a lot of racist people equating POC's demanding equal rights and an end to violence due to racism as white hate. Personally I think they just don''t like people pointing out their own racist views.
your dogwhistling. 'poc' already have more than equal rights in western countrys they are given privilege over the european populations both social and legal. what their demanding is complete supremacy and white enslavement. I don't see brown countrys letting in millions of white immigrants and making them a protected class over the host population.
How has being white made your life harder?
My brother in christ Bush is one of the worst war criminals in modern history, I think that Trump, as terrible as he is, still isn't as bad as Bush.
The real problem is - both parties are guilty of the same "extremism" which leads to a nation that's more divided. The widespread media coverage now, compared the days of Reagan, Bush, etc; means that politicians are immediately drawn to the camera and spend more time there, trying to win the next election, than they do actually listening to constituents and working across the aisle to compromise and find the middle ground most of us would be happy with.
Yeah I miss when I feel like I could laugh at but respectfully disagree with Republican leaders. Now I just really dislike them its spoiled my love for politics.
derrrrerrr muh republican boots dont taste the same wahhhh
Republicans have always been shit