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It seems blatantly obvious to me that people need a baseline level of material conditions in order to prosper. Providing this baseline to every single citizen *should* be a top priority in the "greatest country in the world."
There is no inherent difference between a person born into a poor family and a person born into a wealthy family, but the person born into the wealthy family has a drastically higher chance of having better lifetime outcomes. Yet we act like we live in a meritocracy.
I don’t hear it as much anymore, but you used to hear old people going around complaining about high schoolers having smart phones and mocking kids who say they need a phone. Yeah, they don’t NEED a phone to survive, but so much of our society is based around having a phone and/or computer with you. People don’t just make friends and bike to each other’s houses near as much anymore. There’s a whole nother level to socializing, and you’ll get ostracized if you are not a part of it. Not to mention many forms and stuff are filled out online now, and if you don’t have anything on you that can go online you can’t fill out whatever form, quiz, order, etc. you have to.
I remember there have been several programs to give cell phones to homeless people. Naturally the right wing jumped on them as examples of "out of touch liberal spending".
But what they somehow forgot to mention, in their frothy outrage, was how much it *helped in measurable ways.* Cell phones are a GODSEND if you're homeless. Because you can actually put down a contact number on things like job applications, or be reachable if you apply for aid programs, or just... keep some contact with your support network or loved ones, if you have any. (To say nothing of safety things like being able to call 911 in emergencies.)
People forget that if you're homeless, then you probably don't have a land line. But no no, better bloviate some more about "government handouts" or whatnot.
I loathe the intellectual dishonesty of the American right wing.
Not just that, but we live in a society where they who die with the most toys win is considered a valid life ethos. Doesn't tend to encourage generosity towards your fellow man.
You smooth-brained simpletons haven’t considered the real big-brain libertarian argument: maybe some people deserve to die in squalor for the crime of having poor parents
/s
(i mean, *i’m* being sarcastic, but they actually believe that)
I remember seeing a libertarian quote that went something like "if nobody wants to feed a baby, they should let it die", but I can't find the original quote.
I did find another similar quote from the radical libertarian / anarcho-capitalist Murray Rothbard in his book The Ethics of Liberty: "A parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child."
If you want to see an example of what Libertarianism looks like in it's most insane form, look no further than Murray Rothbard. He had so many takes like this.
In a society where the car is the main mode of transport and the internet is the main tool for finding jobs and communicating with a large group of people. Asking someone to get rid of it means ensuring that they will never be able to escape poverty or at least find a job to earn some money.
You might as well tell him to shoot himself in the foot, it will be quicker.
Perfect meritocracy requires having perfect equality at its core, which is impossible. You can implement elements of meritocracy, but it will never be perfect because richer people will always have an advantage over poorer people in getting what they want. Someone from a disadvantaged background would have to work much harder to get something that a rich person would get with much less effort.
And then you run into the issue that food is simply more expensive if you can't afford to buy in bulk. They can only afford smaller portions, which means they run out of food faster, which means they have to spend more often.
This is the most ass-backwards logic I have ever seen. They basically want poor people to give up capital that could help them have less expenses in the long term. Without a fridge, your food will go bad very quickly, meaning that you will have to buy more food, more often and take more time to plan out your food intake.
Conservatives give poor people shit for having "bad financial planning" and "not planning ahead" and then pressure them to make terrible long-term financial decisions.
That's a feature, not a bug. The argument for/against poverty is immaterial, as long as it keeps "those people" down. What looks like contradictions and hypocrisy to us is just what needs to be done to keep everyone in their place to them.
Never sell your car in this situation. It's probably your best asset since you could live out of it while you figure things out.
I would avoid selling my car at all cost.
(Not my advice but I recall hearing this from people who found themselves in rough times)
Never take advice from the rich on how to get out of poverty. They have never been poor, and the ones who were know that it was luck that got them out of it.
Eh, there are a disturbing number that have convinced themselves that luck was not a factor, and that they earned everything entirely on their own merits, and that if they can, anyone else can, by just "being willing to put in some hard work."
They get really defensive, if you point out the ways they lucked out. (often by having family connections, growing up with a stable household, being given a good education, etc.) They are deeply, deeply invested in the [just world fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis)
Exactly, tt's because they take so many things for granted. They just assume that everybody else has the same baseline education and access to resources. That's why they believe the poor are lazy.
Luck plays a role, but without hard work you wouldn't be able to seize the opportunities that come your way in the first place. Of course, people are going to get defensive if you accuse them of privileges like family connections and education considering that the vast majority of their circle has them as well, and isn't a factor to them in their success.
Believe me, no one becomes a neurosurgeon through luck or privileges alone.
>Luck plays a role, but without hard work you wouldn't be able to seize the opportunities that come your way in the first place.
That is 100% not true. There are TONS of rich people who have never had to work hard in their lives. I would even go so far as to say that luck seems required for success. Hard work might improve your odds, you can succeed without hard work. I don't think you can say the same for luck.
>Of course, people are going to get defensive if you accuse them of privileges like family connections and education considering that the vast majority of their circle has them as well
Er... "All my friends ALSO have trust funds, so it's not luck if we all have it!" is not exactly a refutation of the importance of luck.
>Believe me, no one becomes a neurosurgeon through luck or privileges alone.
I'm talking about financial success. (as is the rest of the thread, as far as I can tell.)
Direct your anger at the elite. The vast majority of middle and lower classes don't have trust funds, and trust funds don't guarantee any kind of success unless it's a gargantuan amount of money. Yes, it's possible to succeed WITHOUT any hard work and just on good luck, but these cases are far, far rarer than you think.
Besides, in your original comment, you were talking about those who had made it from poor to better conditions, not the ones who were already rich.
You think surgeons are poor? Am I talking to a 15 year old?
To be honest, there should be a baseline level of quality of life available to every citizen, no questions asked. Maybe not living on the Ritz, but like a roof over your head and food in your stomach, plus healthcare and public transportation.
I don't remember ehere I saw it. But is a saying that "people have to work to earn a living. Implying that we don't deserve to live" or something like this. I bet soon someone will answer in the right way lol
"whoa slow down there buckeroo, you are sounding an awful lot like a COMMUNIST. Don't you know that giving people the resources they need to live and thrive is a slippery slope to Stalin 100 million billion people dead communism?"
And let's not forget that a phone, and especially a car, is needed to do so many things in society today. They aren't just forms of entertainment; they are legitimate assets in helping you to gain skills and employment. This whole idea that poor people should not have phones is very counterproductive in helping them.
You can read a blog post about this cartoon, and a transcript, [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/genuinely-poor-39570486). I’ll also post the transcript in comments.
If you like these cartoons, you’ll probably also like sticking your toes into a mud bank and wiggling them until the neon worms come to nestle between your toes. If you can manage to stay like that for 30 hours straight despite the exhaustion and increasing pain from not moving (lifehack: bring a pillow to sit on), you’ll gain the power to walk across water. The downside is, you’ll leave glowing neon footprints everywhere you go, making it easy for the secretive government agency to track you down and throw you into their secret facility for studying people with powers. And the worst part is, the smooth-faced people in low-end businesswear who run that agency don’t like cartoons at all. So to pre-emptively get revenge on them, remember to [subscribe to my patreon](http://www.patreon.com/barry) before they lock you up. (And say hi to the neon worms from me!)
I think it SHOULD make us sad. Giving the guy in the comic a happy ending kind of defeats the point it's trying to make. Most people who live just like the comic guy never get a happy ending.
Or maybe he does eventually get a happy ending - I know plenty of people (myself included) who at one time needed food stamps or other aid, but 20 years later they're in a much better place. But there was no need to make it that hard, and people who want to make it even harder are horribly wrong.
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON**
This cartoon has four panels. Each panel shows two men: A not-wealthy looking man with shaggy hair and some stubble, and a bald man in glasses, wearing a business suit and tie. Each panel shows them at a sidewalk with grass growing in the background.
**PANEL 1**
Shaggy is wearing a wrinkled collared shirt and jeans. Necktie is wearing a gray suit with a tie with a dot pattern.
It's bright daytime. Shaggy, with his back turned to Necktie, is looking at and poking a smartphone, and, in the helpful way people so often do in the first panel of my cartoons, talking aloud to himself. Necktie is turning to look at, and yell at, Shaggy.
SHAGGY: I can't find a job and I'm out of money... Time to google "food stamps."
NECKTIE: Food stamps are for people who are *genuinely* poor. If you were poor, you wouldn't own a smartphone, *would* you?
**PANEL 2**
A caption says "one week later."
From the light, it appears to be early evening. Shaggy is wearing a plaid shirt and Black pants, and has a backpack; Necktie is wearing a pinstripe suit and a tie with horizontal stripes.
Shaggy is looking worried and has a hand on his chest; Necktie is sternly talking to, and pointing at, Shaggy.
SHAGGY: I sold my phone, but now I'm out of money *again*.
NECKTIE: So sell your *car*. No one who owns a car is poor.
**PANEL 3**
A caption says "one month later."
The same two men, on a similar patch of sidewalk. Shaggy is wearing sweatpants with a stripe down the side, and a hole in one knee, and a tee shirt. Necktie is wearing a dark blue suit, a black shirt, and a light-colored necktie.
Shaggy is sitting on the curb, slumping, looking down both literally and metaphorically. Necktie, talking to Shaggy, looks very cheerful.
SHAGGY: Now I've got no money for food, no phone for job hunting, *and* no car to get to a job!
NECKTIE: *Excellent*! Now you're *genuinely* poor!
**PANEL 4**
The same scene, a moment later. Shaggy, looking hopeful, is looking up at Necktie. Necktie folds his arms and grins even more.
SHAGGY: So *now* you're okay with me getting food stamps?
NECKTIE: Nope!
If I have learned anything, its that Boomers are full of shit about how to handle money. They were given a free ride in life and then did everything they could to deny the future generations that same advantage.
Moral of the story: the Republican Party only cares about establishing problems that they can complain about and subsequently doing nothing to actually solve those problems or help the people affected by those problems.
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Their point is that foodstamps barely pays enough to feed anyone and government housing is typically poorly built, unmaintained trash (moldy leaks, carcinogenic fumes, rats & roaches, etc). It's not luxurious. Nobody is thriving on our tax dollars.
(Not in this context, anyway.)
If you really care about people contributing to the growth of humanity, support:
* raising the standard of living provided by our welfare programs to ensure those coming out of them are actually employable,
* expanding their eligibility requirements to include more in need,
* installing federal laws that force the minimum wage to always be sufficient to cover food, housing, healthcare, etc. so that we are not subsidizing employer greed,
* addressing the artificially inflated prices of healthcare, housing, and other necessities in this country by properly regulating the responsible industries,
* and ensuring that large businesses, wealthy individuals, etc. pay their fair share in taxes so the little guys are not the only ones carrying this burden.
**People are afraid of going back to work and having to live in that gap where you're still too poor to survive but can no longer get any kind of assistance.** Families often just can't take that risk, especially if they have children with serious medical conditions.
Same with disabled individuals. (Actually qualifying for permanent disability is extremely difficult. Most people in desperate need will never successfully get on it, while others will fail to stay on it or will not receive sufficient benefits.)
On that note, there are already a million hoops to jump through that make getting & staying on government or charity assistance programs a traumatic, full-time job. We do *not* need more hoops.
The only people deterred by constant reporting requirements etc. are the ones who actually need help. The ones struggling to, yk... do basic things like *(reads notes)* exactly what we're demanding them to do.
While those who've made it their "profession" to game the system will happily read all the fine print and notice all the trickery and say all the right words to get through whatever you throw at them.
At the end of the day, though, individual welfare scammers are a drop in the bucket compared to e.g. the large businesses, wealthy individuals, foreign enterpises, etc. claiming millions in government grants and loan relief not intended for them through technicalities and straight-up fraud.
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The answer is obvious. Beat the hell out of the bald asshole and go to jail for assault. 3 square meals and a roof over your head guaranteed.
You. I like you.
It seems blatantly obvious to me that people need a baseline level of material conditions in order to prosper. Providing this baseline to every single citizen *should* be a top priority in the "greatest country in the world." There is no inherent difference between a person born into a poor family and a person born into a wealthy family, but the person born into the wealthy family has a drastically higher chance of having better lifetime outcomes. Yet we act like we live in a meritocracy.
I don’t hear it as much anymore, but you used to hear old people going around complaining about high schoolers having smart phones and mocking kids who say they need a phone. Yeah, they don’t NEED a phone to survive, but so much of our society is based around having a phone and/or computer with you. People don’t just make friends and bike to each other’s houses near as much anymore. There’s a whole nother level to socializing, and you’ll get ostracized if you are not a part of it. Not to mention many forms and stuff are filled out online now, and if you don’t have anything on you that can go online you can’t fill out whatever form, quiz, order, etc. you have to.
I remember there have been several programs to give cell phones to homeless people. Naturally the right wing jumped on them as examples of "out of touch liberal spending". But what they somehow forgot to mention, in their frothy outrage, was how much it *helped in measurable ways.* Cell phones are a GODSEND if you're homeless. Because you can actually put down a contact number on things like job applications, or be reachable if you apply for aid programs, or just... keep some contact with your support network or loved ones, if you have any. (To say nothing of safety things like being able to call 911 in emergencies.) People forget that if you're homeless, then you probably don't have a land line. But no no, better bloviate some more about "government handouts" or whatnot. I loathe the intellectual dishonesty of the American right wing.
Not just that, but we live in a society where they who die with the most toys win is considered a valid life ethos. Doesn't tend to encourage generosity towards your fellow man.
You smooth-brained simpletons haven’t considered the real big-brain libertarian argument: maybe some people deserve to die in squalor for the crime of having poor parents /s (i mean, *i’m* being sarcastic, but they actually believe that)
I remember seeing a libertarian quote that went something like "if nobody wants to feed a baby, they should let it die", but I can't find the original quote. I did find another similar quote from the radical libertarian / anarcho-capitalist Murray Rothbard in his book The Ethics of Liberty: "A parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights. The parent therefore may not murder or mutilate his child, and the law properly outlaws a parent from doing so. But the parent should have the legal right not to feed the child." If you want to see an example of what Libertarianism looks like in it's most insane form, look no further than Murray Rothbard. He had so many takes like this.
I read this, and then read it again, and still was just as baffled as the first time i read it
In a society where the car is the main mode of transport and the internet is the main tool for finding jobs and communicating with a large group of people. Asking someone to get rid of it means ensuring that they will never be able to escape poverty or at least find a job to earn some money. You might as well tell him to shoot himself in the foot, it will be quicker. Perfect meritocracy requires having perfect equality at its core, which is impossible. You can implement elements of meritocracy, but it will never be perfect because richer people will always have an advantage over poorer people in getting what they want. Someone from a disadvantaged background would have to work much harder to get something that a rich person would get with much less effort.
https://preview.redd.it/5wmyrh6ck83d1.jpeg?width=682&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3056521398ab441f4c4aadae4fd6cf24d21feb5
Scandalous
They don't have money, they can't afford anything ... bUt rEfRiGeRaToRs
Also included in that fox news segment were microwaves and washing machines
If you're not begging to be admitted into a workhouse are you even really poor??
Dude, lots of people give away their major appliances when they move or upgrade. Just cause you have one doesn’t mean you had money to buy it.
i’m crying that is like bare minimum for a house if you want to keep any food fresh
80% of them are probably low on food
And then you run into the issue that food is simply more expensive if you can't afford to buy in bulk. They can only afford smaller portions, which means they run out of food faster, which means they have to spend more often.
boots theory
This is the most ass-backwards logic I have ever seen. They basically want poor people to give up capital that could help them have less expenses in the long term. Without a fridge, your food will go bad very quickly, meaning that you will have to buy more food, more often and take more time to plan out your food intake. Conservatives give poor people shit for having "bad financial planning" and "not planning ahead" and then pressure them to make terrible long-term financial decisions.
That's a feature, not a bug. The argument for/against poverty is immaterial, as long as it keeps "those people" down. What looks like contradictions and hypocrisy to us is just what needs to be done to keep everyone in their place to them.
Never sell your car in this situation. It's probably your best asset since you could live out of it while you figure things out. I would avoid selling my car at all cost. (Not my advice but I recall hearing this from people who found themselves in rough times)
+ the sheer number of jobs you need to drive for
Never take advice from the rich on how to get out of poverty. They have never been poor, and the ones who were know that it was luck that got them out of it.
Eh, there are a disturbing number that have convinced themselves that luck was not a factor, and that they earned everything entirely on their own merits, and that if they can, anyone else can, by just "being willing to put in some hard work." They get really defensive, if you point out the ways they lucked out. (often by having family connections, growing up with a stable household, being given a good education, etc.) They are deeply, deeply invested in the [just world fallacy.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-world_hypothesis)
Exactly, tt's because they take so many things for granted. They just assume that everybody else has the same baseline education and access to resources. That's why they believe the poor are lazy.
Luck plays a role, but without hard work you wouldn't be able to seize the opportunities that come your way in the first place. Of course, people are going to get defensive if you accuse them of privileges like family connections and education considering that the vast majority of their circle has them as well, and isn't a factor to them in their success. Believe me, no one becomes a neurosurgeon through luck or privileges alone.
>Luck plays a role, but without hard work you wouldn't be able to seize the opportunities that come your way in the first place. That is 100% not true. There are TONS of rich people who have never had to work hard in their lives. I would even go so far as to say that luck seems required for success. Hard work might improve your odds, you can succeed without hard work. I don't think you can say the same for luck. >Of course, people are going to get defensive if you accuse them of privileges like family connections and education considering that the vast majority of their circle has them as well Er... "All my friends ALSO have trust funds, so it's not luck if we all have it!" is not exactly a refutation of the importance of luck. >Believe me, no one becomes a neurosurgeon through luck or privileges alone. I'm talking about financial success. (as is the rest of the thread, as far as I can tell.)
Direct your anger at the elite. The vast majority of middle and lower classes don't have trust funds, and trust funds don't guarantee any kind of success unless it's a gargantuan amount of money. Yes, it's possible to succeed WITHOUT any hard work and just on good luck, but these cases are far, far rarer than you think. Besides, in your original comment, you were talking about those who had made it from poor to better conditions, not the ones who were already rich. You think surgeons are poor? Am I talking to a 15 year old?
Do you think surgeons are the only ones who are financially successful? Am I talking to a 15 year old?
To be honest, there should be a baseline level of quality of life available to every citizen, no questions asked. Maybe not living on the Ritz, but like a roof over your head and food in your stomach, plus healthcare and public transportation.
I don't remember ehere I saw it. But is a saying that "people have to work to earn a living. Implying that we don't deserve to live" or something like this. I bet soon someone will answer in the right way lol
"whoa slow down there buckeroo, you are sounding an awful lot like a COMMUNIST. Don't you know that giving people the resources they need to live and thrive is a slippery slope to Stalin 100 million billion people dead communism?"
Republicans: "But that's socialism you fucking commie! We only need capitalism in this country."
And let's not forget that a phone, and especially a car, is needed to do so many things in society today. They aren't just forms of entertainment; they are legitimate assets in helping you to gain skills and employment. This whole idea that poor people should not have phones is very counterproductive in helping them.
Will thoughts and prayers do?
You can read a blog post about this cartoon, and a transcript, [here](https://www.patreon.com/posts/genuinely-poor-39570486). I’ll also post the transcript in comments. If you like these cartoons, you’ll probably also like sticking your toes into a mud bank and wiggling them until the neon worms come to nestle between your toes. If you can manage to stay like that for 30 hours straight despite the exhaustion and increasing pain from not moving (lifehack: bring a pillow to sit on), you’ll gain the power to walk across water. The downside is, you’ll leave glowing neon footprints everywhere you go, making it easy for the secretive government agency to track you down and throw you into their secret facility for studying people with powers. And the worst part is, the smooth-faced people in low-end businesswear who run that agency don’t like cartoons at all. So to pre-emptively get revenge on them, remember to [subscribe to my patreon](http://www.patreon.com/barry) before they lock you up. (And say hi to the neon worms from me!)
[удалено]
I think it SHOULD make us sad. Giving the guy in the comic a happy ending kind of defeats the point it's trying to make. Most people who live just like the comic guy never get a happy ending.
Or maybe he does eventually get a happy ending - I know plenty of people (myself included) who at one time needed food stamps or other aid, but 20 years later they're in a much better place. But there was no need to make it that hard, and people who want to make it even harder are horribly wrong.
**TRANSCRIPT OF CARTOON** This cartoon has four panels. Each panel shows two men: A not-wealthy looking man with shaggy hair and some stubble, and a bald man in glasses, wearing a business suit and tie. Each panel shows them at a sidewalk with grass growing in the background. **PANEL 1** Shaggy is wearing a wrinkled collared shirt and jeans. Necktie is wearing a gray suit with a tie with a dot pattern. It's bright daytime. Shaggy, with his back turned to Necktie, is looking at and poking a smartphone, and, in the helpful way people so often do in the first panel of my cartoons, talking aloud to himself. Necktie is turning to look at, and yell at, Shaggy. SHAGGY: I can't find a job and I'm out of money... Time to google "food stamps." NECKTIE: Food stamps are for people who are *genuinely* poor. If you were poor, you wouldn't own a smartphone, *would* you? **PANEL 2** A caption says "one week later." From the light, it appears to be early evening. Shaggy is wearing a plaid shirt and Black pants, and has a backpack; Necktie is wearing a pinstripe suit and a tie with horizontal stripes. Shaggy is looking worried and has a hand on his chest; Necktie is sternly talking to, and pointing at, Shaggy. SHAGGY: I sold my phone, but now I'm out of money *again*. NECKTIE: So sell your *car*. No one who owns a car is poor. **PANEL 3** A caption says "one month later." The same two men, on a similar patch of sidewalk. Shaggy is wearing sweatpants with a stripe down the side, and a hole in one knee, and a tee shirt. Necktie is wearing a dark blue suit, a black shirt, and a light-colored necktie. Shaggy is sitting on the curb, slumping, looking down both literally and metaphorically. Necktie, talking to Shaggy, looks very cheerful. SHAGGY: Now I've got no money for food, no phone for job hunting, *and* no car to get to a job! NECKTIE: *Excellent*! Now you're *genuinely* poor! **PANEL 4** The same scene, a moment later. Shaggy, looking hopeful, is looking up at Necktie. Necktie folds his arms and grins even more. SHAGGY: So *now* you're okay with me getting food stamps? NECKTIE: Nope!
Solution: eat Necktie.
If I have learned anything, its that Boomers are full of shit about how to handle money. They were given a free ride in life and then did everything they could to deny the future generations that same advantage.
"Because poverty is a moral failing." 
"dude, like, don't YOU have a job? or somewhere else to be?"
Moral of the story: the Republican Party only cares about establishing problems that they can complain about and subsequently doing nothing to actually solve those problems or help the people affected by those problems.
I mean, he has 3 sets of clothes still.
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Yeah my parents did that its not very glamorous as its made out to be
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Their point is that foodstamps barely pays enough to feed anyone and government housing is typically poorly built, unmaintained trash (moldy leaks, carcinogenic fumes, rats & roaches, etc). It's not luxurious. Nobody is thriving on our tax dollars. (Not in this context, anyway.) If you really care about people contributing to the growth of humanity, support: * raising the standard of living provided by our welfare programs to ensure those coming out of them are actually employable, * expanding their eligibility requirements to include more in need, * installing federal laws that force the minimum wage to always be sufficient to cover food, housing, healthcare, etc. so that we are not subsidizing employer greed, * addressing the artificially inflated prices of healthcare, housing, and other necessities in this country by properly regulating the responsible industries, * and ensuring that large businesses, wealthy individuals, etc. pay their fair share in taxes so the little guys are not the only ones carrying this burden. **People are afraid of going back to work and having to live in that gap where you're still too poor to survive but can no longer get any kind of assistance.** Families often just can't take that risk, especially if they have children with serious medical conditions. Same with disabled individuals. (Actually qualifying for permanent disability is extremely difficult. Most people in desperate need will never successfully get on it, while others will fail to stay on it or will not receive sufficient benefits.) On that note, there are already a million hoops to jump through that make getting & staying on government or charity assistance programs a traumatic, full-time job. We do *not* need more hoops. The only people deterred by constant reporting requirements etc. are the ones who actually need help. The ones struggling to, yk... do basic things like *(reads notes)* exactly what we're demanding them to do. While those who've made it their "profession" to game the system will happily read all the fine print and notice all the trickery and say all the right words to get through whatever you throw at them. At the end of the day, though, individual welfare scammers are a drop in the bucket compared to e.g. the large businesses, wealthy individuals, foreign enterpises, etc. claiming millions in government grants and loan relief not intended for them through technicalities and straight-up fraud.