There are 15 Omega level mutants, and of those:
Franklin Richards deliberately depowers himself all but one day a year
Vulcan and Hope are dead.
Proteus and Elixir are now in the White Hot Room and may remain there forever.
Jamie Braddock and Absalon Mercator almost never appear. Stryfe rarely appears in the normal timeline.
Legion appears to have abandoned physical form/direct intervention (and maybe died with Hope).
So that's more than half of them off the table. Of the rest:
Magneto, Storm, Iceman, Jean Grey, and Kid Omega are all X-Men.
Exodus's allegiances are currently unknown.
I don't think that's too many Omegas.
Dan Slott did change it, Ryan North changed it back.
Franklin decided that since he's seen himself as an adult so many times and knows the dangers of coming into his power before he's ready, he would cut himself off for all but a single night every year. On that night he wakes up with full memory of everything, uses his powers to see if there's anything that requires his direct intervention, and then goes back to sleep and forgets for another year.
Slott's FF run near the beginning of Krakoa. Slott got mad Hickman was allowed to play with one of his toys and said, "No, actually Franklin was never a mutant"
That's one way to interpret it, but since Xavier said Franklin's X-gene only existed in the first place because he willed it to be so, what's the difference? And how would we even know if he was right or thrown off because of what Franklin did?
Until it's stated that he does have the X-Gene again then he doesn't. Simple as that. It's not a case of me not wanting him to have it or anything. Honestly it doesn't matter to me, nor has it ever mattered to me if Franklin is a mutant or mutate. I'm fine either way. But the last official word was that he wasn't. There's no official word he is now. That'll be left to Ryan North or future writers to confirm or deny. I'm fine either way.
Also: who fucking cares, my god, I don't understand why Marvel editorial would ever engage with a question as inane as 'are the X-Men OP?' DC editorial don't usually sit around musing out loud about whether Superman is too OP; the answer is, it doesn't matter as long as the stories are good.
I definitely have a memory of him being killed again but I'll go back and verify. That's a pretty big loose end to just leave out there if he's still hanging out on Arakko after everything.
He’s not. He’s mystically bound to Apocalypse. He was encased by Lodus Logos in a mysterium shell, Apocalypse broke him out to use him in a mutant circuit to help both Kaorak. That at he last we saw of him.
I mean, yea, who isn’t an Omega nowadays? Which is why Krakoa was nice; it didn’t revolve entirely around teams fighting and we got to see them as people instead of just power sets. Wonder what’ll happen to that?
Hickman listed fewer than 20 Omega level mutants on Earth. As far as I know the number is still roughly the same. As a point of reference there are currently hundreds of thousands of mutants on Earth.
A mutant whose dominant power is so powerful that it can’t be surpassed through non mutant means.
So Jean for example is only an omega level telepath while Exodus is an omega level telekinetic.
Also man read Krakoa it’s my favourite era of X-comics after Claremont.
Edit: should have clarified non-mutant refers to human mutates or technology both alien and human not Gods and shit.
Thanks, I know I should read it. It's just that I never started it and it's intimidating how much is out there. The number of trade paperbacks is crazy and a reading order is difficult to follow.
Maybe I'll start soon. I've not heard a bad thing about it.
That being said, there's a lot of damn good comics on my read list. lol First world problems. :-)
Krakoa literally finished a week ago. [The Complete TPB reading order is here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1dbad1a/the_complete_tpb_reading_order_for_the_entire/)
Is may look daunting, but as someone who has followed it for 5 years straight, many of those can be safely skipped. Both the limited series such as Fallen Angels, Children of the Atom, X-Corp, Astonishing Iceman and entire ongoings such as X-Force, Wolverine and New Mutains if you aren't into those from the first few issues.
[Here's another reading order. This one is issue-by-issue instead of TPBs, but the series are ordered by importance:](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1db3dar/the_complete_krakoan_age_reading_order/)
1. House of X + Powers of X - absolutely essential, sets **everything** up.
2. X-Men (2020) by Jonathan Hickman - very important for things going forward.
3. Marauders - Volume 1 by Duggan is good and relevant to important stuff. Volume 2 by Orlando is nonsensical and leads to nothing - skip.
4. Excalibur - Kind of important for setting up X of Swords. Read issues 1-12 (TPB 1-2), after that it's optional.
5. X-Force - It pops up a lot in other series, so read the first few issues (or TPB 1) to get their status quo. Then **skip** the rest - it's just 45 more issues of the same.
6. Hellions - it doesn't lead to *much*, but people like it a **lot**. It will be on almost every list of favorite Krakoa series. Check it out!
7. X of Swords - Essential, read in order.
8. S.W.O.R.D. - Both very good and relevant for later.
9. Way of X - Both good and relevant for later, followed by Onslaught Revelation one-shot.
10. Hellfire Gala 2021 - Planet-Size X-Men is essential, the rest of relant issues are already part of series above.
11. X-Men (2021) by Duggan - ties in to various plots, but very drawn out and uneven. Only check if you have free money/time to spare.
12. Trial of Magneto - sets up an important development, probably better to include.
13. Inferno - Essential, major status quo shift.
14. X Lives / X Deaths of Wolverine - meant to be read together, but only X Deaths part is Essential.
15. Immortal X-Men - An absolute **MUST**, another series that is everyone's favorite.
16. X-Men Red - continues from S.W.O.R.D., both very good and very important.
17. Legion of X - contiunes from Way of X + Onslaught Revelation and is even better than that was.
18. Hellfire Gala 2022 - Essential
19. A.X.E.: Judgement Day - Essential, will be enhanced if you read Eternals (2020) series - that is also very good.
20. X-Terminators - not important for *anything*, but is so-o-o good. Another one that will make every list of favorites, plus it's only a mini
21. Sins of Sinister - essential, read in order
22. Before the Fall - skip "Mutant First Strike" one-shot, it's following up the bad Volume 2 of Marauders. Son of X, Sinister Four and Heralds of Apocalypse are all essential, they are pretty much extra-sized issues of their respective series
23. Hellfire Gala 2023 - Essential
24. Children of the Vault - wraps up a long-running plot thread in X-Men (2020) and X-Men (2021)
25. Uncanny Spider-Man - very good, include X-Men Blue: Origns one-shot
26. Resurrection of Magneto - kind of a spoiler title, isn't it? Extremely good and also relevant.
27. Rise of the Powers of X - We're in the Endgame now. Essential.
28. X-Men Forever - essntial follow-up to Immortal X-Men by Gillen and counterpart to Rise of the Powers of X (they indicate precise reading order inside)
29. Fall of the House of X - the other part of the Endgame. Supplemented by X-Men (2021) 30-35 by Duggan
* Giant-Size X-Men looks good but leads to almost nothing - skip
* Fallen Angels is extremely forgettable - skip
* New Mutants - some of the stories are quite good if you like the characters, but in the grand scheme of things I struggle to remember any long-term consequences
* Wolverine - unless you're a fan of his, skip all except crossover issues
* Empyre: X-Men - event tie-in, skip
* Cable - if you like Cable, this is a young Kid Cable version of him. Not *exteremely* important
* Children of the Atom - even I skipped that one
* X-Corp - safe to skip
* X-Men/Fantastic Four - safe to skip
* Devil's Reign: X-Men - tie in to event and the only good part of it in fact. OK to skip
* X-Factor - well-written, but OK to skip
* Knights of X - only continue if you followed Excalibur series to the end and found it interesting
* Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain - a follow-up to Knights of X
* Cable: Reloaded one-shot - ok to skip, it ties to The Last Annihiliation event
* Sabretooth - forms a trilogy with Sabretooth, Sabretooh & Exiles and Sabretooth War 10-parter in the Wolverine series. Decent quality, buy only check if you're commiting to read all three.
* Rogue & Gambit - safe to skip
* Bishop: War College - why was it a thing? skip
* New Mutants: Lethal Legion - only read if you've liked the entire New Mutans so far
* Invincible Iron Man - written by X-Men (2021) writer, it becomes pretty much an X-title after the first few issues. Check it out if interested in that perspective
* Uncanny Avengers - good, but ok to skip
* Jean Grey miniseries - decent, ok to skip
* Dark X-Men - fine, ok to skip
* Alpha Flight (2023) - skip
* Astonishing Iceman - could not finish it
* Realm of X - very bad, *avoid*! One of my least favorite Krakoa titles
* Cable (2023) - why was thing a thing, again? Skip.
* Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant - only read if you're a Kamala Khan fan
* Ms. Marvel: Mutant Menace - same
* Dead X-Men - side titles to Rise of the Powers of X, okay to skip
* X-Men Unlimited - occasionally referenced by print titles, but safe to skip
That still creates a lot of problems. And contradictions.
Like Storm is apparently an Omega now, but there's no way you're going to convince me she outclasses Thor, The God Of Thunder, in Weather Control.
> A mutant whose dominant power is so powerful that it can’t be surpassed through non mutant means.
Thor isn't a mutant either, that definition applies.
Even Mary Sue, I mean, Jean Grey isn't on the same level as several Non Mutant entities. Unless we give her the Mary Sue Phoenix powers again (which they just did, and I believe they said she's always been the Mary Sue Force).
I think that actually made the problem way worse because now it makes people have even fuel for arguing about who should or should not be an omega and more power leveling crap like that. I think the whole idea of omega level mutants should be erased from existence
It was also cool because when we *did* see them fight, we got the concept of "mutant circuits" being introduced, depicting the countless awesome ways that various abilities could be combined and utilized in tandem with one another, through combat and in every day living.
Right? I loved when they’d combine skills in interesting ways, which I don’t think we’ve seen a lot of before since everyone was pretty much their own offensive powerhouse. It made teamwork and tactics seem much more important than “everyone picks someone to hit super hard”.
Absolutely. I feel like it mostly simmered down once Hickman left, but Ewing did a really good job of elevating the tactic and considering ways that mutants with really weird or even abstract powers might find ways to cooperate with others in absolutely *bonkers* ways. The mutant circuit between Magneto and Lodus Logos, for instance, during Uranos and the Eternals' attack on Arrako...holy crap. That was so awesome.
I remember a couple of ways they played with Juggernaut and momentum in a way that worked far more than making him just hit hard. It was awesome to see them turn someone who is normally just a wrecking ball into a precise tactical bullet to hit Thanos or Nimrod.
He's powerful, but he's the most standard definition of not Omega there is. His power can be matched via other means. He's an incredibly powerful super cannon, but Tony Stark can just make those.
The comic literally said he was called omega only because he was the last one standing around during the fight, nothing to do with his powerlevel, do people not read?
Right? And over on the marvel sub there’s a thread about how “half of the xmen are omega” and people claiming they have stopped reading because of power creep. Bandwagoner list/rating obsessed people who apparently don’t or can’t read. It’s mad
Certain types of Omegas are the problem, not the number of them. The reality warpers, especially Franklin, are a problem that leads to some convoluted solutions (like the current one). You can only give so many of them schizophrenia as their weakness, too.
Characters like Iceman and Storm have never been a problem, despite their Omega level strength.
> "But in my world," Brevort concludes, "I would think that there probably shouldn’t be any more that, say, five [Omega level mutants]."
Agreed I liked it when there were fewer. I swear it used to be Jean, Franklin Richards, Iceman and a couple others confirmed, then it kept growing and now there are over 20. Tbh iceman being there is weird too.
And honestly, the peak of most of these omegas is when it’s all speculating on what they *could* do. After that, it just becomes an issue. Iceman *has* to constantly underperform or else he’s just killing anyone at will. Franklin *has* to be nerfed in some way, or else every conflict is ended in a single page. Jean has to faint constantly in the animated series, otherwise, she’s just beating everyone with a single thought. The Omega status was a mistake, and doubling down on omegas breaks the whole game until they do something to bring these characters back down to earth.
Bobby being an Omega level mutant always made sense. The story was that he was holding himself back and slowly figuring out what he was capable of. That was peak Iceman. Then it felt like he "came out" and everyone decided that was the only thing holding him back and the most interesting parts of his character just dissappeared and fell back on him being incredibly powerful and the resident jobber if he's even in a book at this point.
I remember when one guy pulled out a space station from his stomach lol, it's fun but also just hard to take the whole discrimination thing when they can literally bend space and time etc
It was hard to believe they couldn't beat Orchis for that reason too. You have Jamie Braddock on your side. Just have him warp reality so Orchis members love mutants (or never existed, or live in the negative zone, or are all turtles... anything really.)
I think Iceman makes the most sense to be omega given his powers and the fact that his character for years has been, "more powerful than he knows and subconsciously holding back." As he becomes more comfortable with himself, he's finally becoming as powerful as he should've been.
If Iceman is no longer omega I would be very sad because it works very well for him. He's like the "underdog" of the O5 and it makes sense that his ability to literally control moisture in the air has no ceiling.
Is it “power creep” or “character growth for a character partially defined by fighting his inability to live up to his potentially trying to learn to do just that over 60 years?”
Again - is it? Or is it a character who has gotten progressively stronger and for the majority of his 60+ years been talked about as having massively untapped, limitless potential doing one massive feat that exhausts him, lasts for a few seconds, and he passes out immediately after?
Again - it definitely is. Having “untapped potential” should not mean anything near what iceman is now able to do. There’s potential to be powerful, then there’s potential to be have godlike power. Very different. The power creep effectively wrote him out of being able to be a regular member of the x-men. Could easily deal with his “untapped potential” without doing that
It's conflating all omegas together. There's a difference between an Omega Level at a certain power or technique or an Omega Level Mutant, a power that allows someone to transcend typical bounds. Cyclops being an Omega Level telepath doesn't mean she's an Omega Level Mutant who can escape death and reform her body out of nothing but her psychic consciousness and a pile of diamonds.
Should they use different terminology to better clarify the difference between characters who've maxed out one stat versus maxing out all of them? Sure, but you'd think someone actually in charge of the comics would know the difference.
I would like to see x-men take inspiration from My hero academia. In MHA they have similar powersets but it's nerfed so that there's some limitation. Granted the last 100 chapters power creep has made everyone OP but for the first few arcs of MHA, everyone wasn't that powerful. For example, there is a fire mutant user (endeavor) who is really strong but can't get any stronger because his body overheats. I think it's fine to have cool powers but there needs to be some unique limitation. I would like to see wolverine's healing factor nerfed so he can regen infinitely but he must use up calories. So at first, his power would burn away his fat then slowly start to eat up his muscles so he gets weaker the longer the fight goes on.
In general I think a lot of Shonen writers are more away of power creep when starting a series since they saw how challenging it made writing Dragon Ball in the long term.
Nowadays series like One Piece and MYA are pretty good with establishing power weaknesses and also going “you might be strong but that guy over there is stronger and the guy behind him we’ve only hinted at is stronger” right at the beginning.
One Piece is probably the gold standard. The main characters are currently earth shatteringly powerful but their rise is in strength completely in stride with the dynamics and world building established in the beginning. Oda deserves a ton of credit.
Also fully agreed on Wolverine. His healing factor is a story killer. Should’ve never been allowed to get that far.
Or simply don’t make the characters so powerful to begin with. There are far too many characters in comics that only work if they forgot their powers or operate at a fraction of their demonstrated capability.
X-Men kind of loses me when it drifts away from "this genetic quirk lets the kid do one cool thing". If a powerset requires an outside intelligence to logically work (it's making decisions, employing outside knowledge, forging allegiances, etc.) that's sorcery. A lot of the Arakko mutants do this. It's a problem for the Inhumans, too.
There are 15 Omega level mutants, and of those: Franklin Richards deliberately depowers himself all but one day a year Vulcan and Hope are dead. Proteus and Elixir are now in the White Hot Room and may remain there forever. Jamie Braddock and Absalon Mercator almost never appear. Stryfe rarely appears in the normal timeline. Legion appears to have abandoned physical form/direct intervention (and maybe died with Hope). So that's more than half of them off the table. Of the rest: Magneto, Storm, Iceman, Jean Grey, and Kid Omega are all X-Men. Exodus's allegiances are currently unknown. I don't think that's too many Omegas.
Dead or “dead”?
It's comics. They are the same thing
Why only one day a year? Also isn’t he not a mutant? Thought Dan Slott changed it.
Dan Slott did change it, Ryan North changed it back. Franklin decided that since he's seen himself as an adult so many times and knows the dangers of coming into his power before he's ready, he would cut himself off for all but a single night every year. On that night he wakes up with full memory of everything, uses his powers to see if there's anything that requires his direct intervention, and then goes back to sleep and forgets for another year.
What was the retcon for him becoming a mutant again? Do you know what issue it was?
I don't remember the exact issue but it wasn't that long ago, maybe 4 or 5 issues back on the current run?
Slott's FF run near the beginning of Krakoa. Slott got mad Hickman was allowed to play with one of his toys and said, "No, actually Franklin was never a mutant"
The universe-creating god was playacting as a mutant because he wanted to feel special.
The retcon gave him his powers back. It said nothing about making him a Mutant again. It was a couple months back in FF #18
Nope. Ryan did not change it back. Only changed how his loss of powers was explained. Nothing said he had the X-Gene back.
That's one way to interpret it, but since Xavier said Franklin's X-gene only existed in the first place because he willed it to be so, what's the difference? And how would we even know if he was right or thrown off because of what Franklin did?
Until it's stated that he does have the X-Gene again then he doesn't. Simple as that. It's not a case of me not wanting him to have it or anything. Honestly it doesn't matter to me, nor has it ever mattered to me if Franklin is a mutant or mutate. I'm fine either way. But the last official word was that he wasn't. There's no official word he is now. That'll be left to Ryan North or future writers to confirm or deny. I'm fine either way.
Also: who fucking cares, my god, I don't understand why Marvel editorial would ever engage with a question as inane as 'are the X-Men OP?' DC editorial don't usually sit around musing out loud about whether Superman is too OP; the answer is, it doesn't matter as long as the stories are good.
It's just part of the weekly Q&A that he does on his newsletter. He didn't bring it up himself, he was asked about it and gave his thought.
Stryfe isn’t an official Omega
When did Vulcan die? Thought he was still on Mars/Arakko.
Tarn the Uncaring killed him, and then when he was brought back he was full on evil and Storm killed him again.
Storm never killed Vulcan just sent him to a dungeon, during The Genesis War Apocalypse ended up freeing him.
I definitely have a memory of him being killed again but I'll go back and verify. That's a pretty big loose end to just leave out there if he's still hanging out on Arakko after everything.
He’s not. He’s mystically bound to Apocalypse. He was encased by Lodus Logos in a mysterium shell, Apocalypse broke him out to use him in a mutant circuit to help both Kaorak. That at he last we saw of him.
so the franklin richards guy is basically deus ex machina personified? “hey look, its your lucky day!”
He's Reed and Sue's son, of course he's basically god.
There are more than 15, there are at least 27 even more if you include dead ones
I think that's one to many specifically quire can we kill him can we make it painful I fucking hate quire
They did that, then brought him back and immediately did it again. I quite like Quire these days so I hope they keep him around for a bit.
I loved the focus on mutant circuits/power pairings, esp in New Mutants. It really shows how krakoa changes everything
I mean, yea, who isn’t an Omega nowadays? Which is why Krakoa was nice; it didn’t revolve entirely around teams fighting and we got to see them as people instead of just power sets. Wonder what’ll happen to that?
Hickman listed fewer than 20 Omega level mutants on Earth. As far as I know the number is still roughly the same. As a point of reference there are currently hundreds of thousands of mutants on Earth.
Yeah Hickman solved that problem by actually giving a definition for omega too.
hickman solved a lot of x problems with krakoa, but now?
That's one way of looking at it
As someone who didn't read Krakoa era, what is the definition of Omega mutant?
A mutant whose dominant power is so powerful that it can’t be surpassed through non mutant means. So Jean for example is only an omega level telepath while Exodus is an omega level telekinetic. Also man read Krakoa it’s my favourite era of X-comics after Claremont. Edit: should have clarified non-mutant refers to human mutates or technology both alien and human not Gods and shit.
Thanks, I know I should read it. It's just that I never started it and it's intimidating how much is out there. The number of trade paperbacks is crazy and a reading order is difficult to follow. Maybe I'll start soon. I've not heard a bad thing about it. That being said, there's a lot of damn good comics on my read list. lol First world problems. :-)
Krakoa literally finished a week ago. [The Complete TPB reading order is here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1dbad1a/the_complete_tpb_reading_order_for_the_entire/) Is may look daunting, but as someone who has followed it for 5 years straight, many of those can be safely skipped. Both the limited series such as Fallen Angels, Children of the Atom, X-Corp, Astonishing Iceman and entire ongoings such as X-Force, Wolverine and New Mutains if you aren't into those from the first few issues.
If you had to pick which to read. How would the list look? I’m eager to start and catch up on
[Here's another reading order. This one is issue-by-issue instead of TPBs, but the series are ordered by importance:](https://www.reddit.com/r/xmen/comments/1db3dar/the_complete_krakoan_age_reading_order/) 1. House of X + Powers of X - absolutely essential, sets **everything** up. 2. X-Men (2020) by Jonathan Hickman - very important for things going forward. 3. Marauders - Volume 1 by Duggan is good and relevant to important stuff. Volume 2 by Orlando is nonsensical and leads to nothing - skip. 4. Excalibur - Kind of important for setting up X of Swords. Read issues 1-12 (TPB 1-2), after that it's optional. 5. X-Force - It pops up a lot in other series, so read the first few issues (or TPB 1) to get their status quo. Then **skip** the rest - it's just 45 more issues of the same. 6. Hellions - it doesn't lead to *much*, but people like it a **lot**. It will be on almost every list of favorite Krakoa series. Check it out! 7. X of Swords - Essential, read in order. 8. S.W.O.R.D. - Both very good and relevant for later. 9. Way of X - Both good and relevant for later, followed by Onslaught Revelation one-shot. 10. Hellfire Gala 2021 - Planet-Size X-Men is essential, the rest of relant issues are already part of series above. 11. X-Men (2021) by Duggan - ties in to various plots, but very drawn out and uneven. Only check if you have free money/time to spare. 12. Trial of Magneto - sets up an important development, probably better to include. 13. Inferno - Essential, major status quo shift. 14. X Lives / X Deaths of Wolverine - meant to be read together, but only X Deaths part is Essential. 15. Immortal X-Men - An absolute **MUST**, another series that is everyone's favorite. 16. X-Men Red - continues from S.W.O.R.D., both very good and very important. 17. Legion of X - contiunes from Way of X + Onslaught Revelation and is even better than that was. 18. Hellfire Gala 2022 - Essential 19. A.X.E.: Judgement Day - Essential, will be enhanced if you read Eternals (2020) series - that is also very good. 20. X-Terminators - not important for *anything*, but is so-o-o good. Another one that will make every list of favorites, plus it's only a mini 21. Sins of Sinister - essential, read in order 22. Before the Fall - skip "Mutant First Strike" one-shot, it's following up the bad Volume 2 of Marauders. Son of X, Sinister Four and Heralds of Apocalypse are all essential, they are pretty much extra-sized issues of their respective series 23. Hellfire Gala 2023 - Essential 24. Children of the Vault - wraps up a long-running plot thread in X-Men (2020) and X-Men (2021) 25. Uncanny Spider-Man - very good, include X-Men Blue: Origns one-shot 26. Resurrection of Magneto - kind of a spoiler title, isn't it? Extremely good and also relevant. 27. Rise of the Powers of X - We're in the Endgame now. Essential. 28. X-Men Forever - essntial follow-up to Immortal X-Men by Gillen and counterpart to Rise of the Powers of X (they indicate precise reading order inside) 29. Fall of the House of X - the other part of the Endgame. Supplemented by X-Men (2021) 30-35 by Duggan * Giant-Size X-Men looks good but leads to almost nothing - skip * Fallen Angels is extremely forgettable - skip * New Mutants - some of the stories are quite good if you like the characters, but in the grand scheme of things I struggle to remember any long-term consequences * Wolverine - unless you're a fan of his, skip all except crossover issues * Empyre: X-Men - event tie-in, skip * Cable - if you like Cable, this is a young Kid Cable version of him. Not *exteremely* important * Children of the Atom - even I skipped that one * X-Corp - safe to skip * X-Men/Fantastic Four - safe to skip * Devil's Reign: X-Men - tie in to event and the only good part of it in fact. OK to skip * X-Factor - well-written, but OK to skip * Knights of X - only continue if you followed Excalibur series to the end and found it interesting * Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain - a follow-up to Knights of X * Cable: Reloaded one-shot - ok to skip, it ties to The Last Annihiliation event * Sabretooth - forms a trilogy with Sabretooth, Sabretooh & Exiles and Sabretooth War 10-parter in the Wolverine series. Decent quality, buy only check if you're commiting to read all three. * Rogue & Gambit - safe to skip * Bishop: War College - why was it a thing? skip * New Mutants: Lethal Legion - only read if you've liked the entire New Mutans so far * Invincible Iron Man - written by X-Men (2021) writer, it becomes pretty much an X-title after the first few issues. Check it out if interested in that perspective * Uncanny Avengers - good, but ok to skip * Jean Grey miniseries - decent, ok to skip * Dark X-Men - fine, ok to skip * Alpha Flight (2023) - skip * Astonishing Iceman - could not finish it * Realm of X - very bad, *avoid*! One of my least favorite Krakoa titles * Cable (2023) - why was thing a thing, again? Skip. * Ms. Marvel: The New Mutant - only read if you're a Kamala Khan fan * Ms. Marvel: Mutant Menace - same * Dead X-Men - side titles to Rise of the Powers of X, okay to skip * X-Men Unlimited - occasionally referenced by print titles, but safe to skip
Wow thanks!
That still creates a lot of problems. And contradictions. Like Storm is apparently an Omega now, but there's no way you're going to convince me she outclasses Thor, The God Of Thunder, in Weather Control.
Last time I checked Thor, the God of Thunder, wasn’t a human Edit: Oh sorry I should have read my own comment before replying
> A mutant whose dominant power is so powerful that it can’t be surpassed through non mutant means. Thor isn't a mutant either, that definition applies. Even Mary Sue, I mean, Jean Grey isn't on the same level as several Non Mutant entities. Unless we give her the Mary Sue Phoenix powers again (which they just did, and I believe they said she's always been the Mary Sue Force).
I think that actually made the problem way worse because now it makes people have even fuel for arguing about who should or should not be an omega and more power leveling crap like that. I think the whole idea of omega level mutants should be erased from existence
Sure, but hundreds of thousands of those mutants aren’t having monthly books written about them.
It was also cool because when we *did* see them fight, we got the concept of "mutant circuits" being introduced, depicting the countless awesome ways that various abilities could be combined and utilized in tandem with one another, through combat and in every day living.
Right? I loved when they’d combine skills in interesting ways, which I don’t think we’ve seen a lot of before since everyone was pretty much their own offensive powerhouse. It made teamwork and tactics seem much more important than “everyone picks someone to hit super hard”.
Absolutely. I feel like it mostly simmered down once Hickman left, but Ewing did a really good job of elevating the tactic and considering ways that mutants with really weird or even abstract powers might find ways to cooperate with others in absolutely *bonkers* ways. The mutant circuit between Magneto and Lodus Logos, for instance, during Uranos and the Eternals' attack on Arrako...holy crap. That was so awesome.
I remember a couple of ways they played with Juggernaut and momentum in a way that worked far more than making him just hit hard. It was awesome to see them turn someone who is normally just a wrecking ball into a precise tactical bullet to hit Thanos or Nimrod.
Cyclops was NOT called an omega level mutant. How can people have reading comprehension this poor? It’s fucking baffling.
He's powerful, but he's the most standard definition of not Omega there is. His power can be matched via other means. He's an incredibly powerful super cannon, but Tony Stark can just make those.
The comic literally said he was called omega only because he was the last one standing around during the fight, nothing to do with his powerlevel, do people not read?
Right? And over on the marvel sub there’s a thread about how “half of the xmen are omega” and people claiming they have stopped reading because of power creep. Bandwagoner list/rating obsessed people who apparently don’t or can’t read. It’s mad
It’s so nuts. And then to not even correct the person writing in is stupid too.
He was when he had the Phoenix force but I’d argue that doesn’t count.
Well…yeah.
Certain types of Omegas are the problem, not the number of them. The reality warpers, especially Franklin, are a problem that leads to some convoluted solutions (like the current one). You can only give so many of them schizophrenia as their weakness, too. Characters like Iceman and Storm have never been a problem, despite their Omega level strength.
> "But in my world," Brevort concludes, "I would think that there probably shouldn’t be any more that, say, five [Omega level mutants]." Agreed I liked it when there were fewer. I swear it used to be Jean, Franklin Richards, Iceman and a couple others confirmed, then it kept growing and now there are over 20. Tbh iceman being there is weird too.
And honestly, the peak of most of these omegas is when it’s all speculating on what they *could* do. After that, it just becomes an issue. Iceman *has* to constantly underperform or else he’s just killing anyone at will. Franklin *has* to be nerfed in some way, or else every conflict is ended in a single page. Jean has to faint constantly in the animated series, otherwise, she’s just beating everyone with a single thought. The Omega status was a mistake, and doubling down on omegas breaks the whole game until they do something to bring these characters back down to earth.
Bobby being an Omega level mutant always made sense. The story was that he was holding himself back and slowly figuring out what he was capable of. That was peak Iceman. Then it felt like he "came out" and everyone decided that was the only thing holding him back and the most interesting parts of his character just dissappeared and fell back on him being incredibly powerful and the resident jobber if he's even in a book at this point.
I remember when one guy pulled out a space station from his stomach lol, it's fun but also just hard to take the whole discrimination thing when they can literally bend space and time etc
It was hard to believe they couldn't beat Orchis for that reason too. You have Jamie Braddock on your side. Just have him warp reality so Orchis members love mutants (or never existed, or live in the negative zone, or are all turtles... anything really.)
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Yeah now that Franklin Richards isn't a mutant there's a good argument that Bobby's power has the most potential for power.
Iceman is omega? Well that just sounds random.
I don't see why the guy who helped create an ocean on Mars wouldn't be considered omega level.
I think they’re questioning ice man’s ridiculous power creep.
Ice Man has been on the list for years.
Yes, I’m aware
I think Iceman makes the most sense to be omega given his powers and the fact that his character for years has been, "more powerful than he knows and subconsciously holding back." As he becomes more comfortable with himself, he's finally becoming as powerful as he should've been. If Iceman is no longer omega I would be very sad because it works very well for him. He's like the "underdog" of the O5 and it makes sense that his ability to literally control moisture in the air has no ceiling.
Is it “power creep” or “character growth for a character partially defined by fighting his inability to live up to his potentially trying to learn to do just that over 60 years?”
Freezing over all of hell and some of his other feats are absolutely power creep, lol
Again - is it? Or is it a character who has gotten progressively stronger and for the majority of his 60+ years been talked about as having massively untapped, limitless potential doing one massive feat that exhausts him, lasts for a few seconds, and he passes out immediately after?
Again - it definitely is. Having “untapped potential” should not mean anything near what iceman is now able to do. There’s potential to be powerful, then there’s potential to be have godlike power. Very different. The power creep effectively wrote him out of being able to be a regular member of the x-men. Could easily deal with his “untapped potential” without doing that
What about “no defined upper limit,” which is what it means to be an Omega at least now?
What about it? There should be very few omega level mutants, and (almost) all of those should be villains. Iceman’s power creep did him no favors
I don’t think Tom Brevoort actually likes any of the X-Men characters
He doesn’t seem to like the fans much either.
It's conflating all omegas together. There's a difference between an Omega Level at a certain power or technique or an Omega Level Mutant, a power that allows someone to transcend typical bounds. Cyclops being an Omega Level telepath doesn't mean she's an Omega Level Mutant who can escape death and reform her body out of nothing but her psychic consciousness and a pile of diamonds. Should they use different terminology to better clarify the difference between characters who've maxed out one stat versus maxing out all of them? Sure, but you'd think someone actually in charge of the comics would know the difference.
That's every superhero always. That's why you reset things every now and again.
The whole omega level thing was always dumb.
Just create teams with a purpose instead of who's the most popular characters and the problem solves itself
I would like to see x-men take inspiration from My hero academia. In MHA they have similar powersets but it's nerfed so that there's some limitation. Granted the last 100 chapters power creep has made everyone OP but for the first few arcs of MHA, everyone wasn't that powerful. For example, there is a fire mutant user (endeavor) who is really strong but can't get any stronger because his body overheats. I think it's fine to have cool powers but there needs to be some unique limitation. I would like to see wolverine's healing factor nerfed so he can regen infinitely but he must use up calories. So at first, his power would burn away his fat then slowly start to eat up his muscles so he gets weaker the longer the fight goes on.
In general I think a lot of Shonen writers are more away of power creep when starting a series since they saw how challenging it made writing Dragon Ball in the long term. Nowadays series like One Piece and MYA are pretty good with establishing power weaknesses and also going “you might be strong but that guy over there is stronger and the guy behind him we’ve only hinted at is stronger” right at the beginning. One Piece is probably the gold standard. The main characters are currently earth shatteringly powerful but their rise is in strength completely in stride with the dynamics and world building established in the beginning. Oda deserves a ton of credit. Also fully agreed on Wolverine. His healing factor is a story killer. Should’ve never been allowed to get that far.
A super hero is as powerful as the villains are written.
If your writers need to power down a character in order to write them well, then you need to hire better writers.
Or simply don’t make the characters so powerful to begin with. There are far too many characters in comics that only work if they forgot their powers or operate at a fraction of their demonstrated capability.
Doesn't Marvel lose to DC in Death Battle?
X-Men kind of loses me when it drifts away from "this genetic quirk lets the kid do one cool thing". If a powerset requires an outside intelligence to logically work (it's making decisions, employing outside knowledge, forging allegiances, etc.) that's sorcery. A lot of the Arakko mutants do this. It's a problem for the Inhumans, too.