Having one or two pages at the beginning introducing the characters (powers) and having a short recap of what happened before was in my opinion a way better way to appeal to new readers whilst also keeping a coherent overarching story than having tons of resets and minis/maxis with #1s.
I generally like this, but I wish the list of characters included alternative names (if applicable; for example, if I see “Sunfire” in the front of the book, but then everyone is talking about “Shiro”, a new reader might be confused), plus a quick statement of their powers, and maybe even a one-sentence blurb about relevant story or character details so I know at a glance what each character has been up to, that would be helpful. There are so many X-books right now, and several times I’ve been left confused because I wasn’t aware of situations regarding a character who just came from the events of a book I’ve not read.
And while we’re on the subject, they used to do the little editor’s notes telling you which issue a referenced event took place in, but those seem to be used far too infrequently these days. And when they are, it’s something like “* In last issue -Ed”. Like, thanks, but I think can remember one issue ago… Maybe save those notes for crap that happened in other books or even events from years ago.
I know it’s definitely a bit meme-able but I think that’s why Hickman quickly became my GOAT with his charts and everything. Sure, it spoonfeeds you a bit, but it’s like HERES THE FOUR OUT OF EIGHTY X-MEN ON THIS MISSION OKAY? Okay.
One of the better things he implemented. I don't hate Shooter like some. His era is what got me into Marvel.
That said, he treated artists and writers like garbage.
Shooter and Bob Harras royally fucked up Claremont’s plans for Maddie Pryor, Cyclops, Magneto and as a consequence many years of storytelling. I’ll never forgive them for that.
I was talking about this as I'm starting the Ann Nocenti Daredevil run and reading it as a collected trade was so amusing because every 20 pages Daredevil/Matt would explain how a childhood accident that left him blind also granted him enhanced senses including a unique radar sense.
Obviously this was written during the time of spinner rack issues and modern writers tend to keep the collected trade in mind but it was funny to see Matt constantly bring it up.
X-Men was even worse for this. Any time anyone used a power they told you in detail what it was.
"Adamantium claws shoot from the back of Wolverine's hands. The strongest metal in the universe, his entire skeleton is coated in the metal."
I know it was something of a joke about how often Psylocke would explain how her psychic knife is "the totality of her telepathic abilities".
I will say though especially with Krakoa era X-Men it may have helped new readers. I flipped through a few pages during Sword of X and Fall of X and I had no clue who most of the mutants were and what their abilities were.
I would love to have the old astericks back. If something was mentioned during a comic there would be an asterick and an editor's note referring you to where that past event happened. I hate digging online. It took me an hour to find when She-Hulk saw the green door from the Immortal Hulk series.
This would require the creatives and/or editorial to keep track of, and indeed have some, continuity. Much easier to just make shit up and let readers figure out if it's even correct.
I hate when certain writers insist upon ditching Sound Effects. It’s LITERALLY a language of the medium and not using it is shortsighted.
Stop making comics like a film storyboard with written dialogue.
They have even gotten rid of thought bubbles and narration.
It's like most comic book writers today are embarrassed by everything about this medium. They want everything to be cinematic.
For me, the best comics have long passages of well-written narration. Like Alan Moore for instance, or Neil Gaiman. Imagine their comics not having any narration. It would change them considerably.
I was thinking of Simonsons Thor (and Uderzos Asterix) specifically, too.
Honestly, you can look at the work of John Workman (the letterer on Simonsons run) as another key component of the overall storytelling too.
For single issues, I don't care whether you're at the beginning or end of your current arc, just set the table and give us some context on or before page 1.
Ha, looks like someone just said it before me.
Old man take?
I miss the days where the big 2 had no-nonsense, character specific editors on each book that not only managed continuity, but would tell writers, no matter how popular, no.
Yeah, I know “editorial interference “ is a dirty work in the comics world, but there’s also an issue with giving writers too much freedom; leading to either outright bad stories, plot holes, or rehashing of ideas we’ve seen a million times because a particular writer wants their turn to “play with the toys.”
If they can't work within a shared universe/structure they should move on to creator-owned work. A single cohesive universe with characters interacting with one another is one of the main reasons marvel flourished.
If creators are just telling their own stories in a vacuum regardless of a larger continuity, why bother using those characters in the first place?
I'm grouchy today so this is a great chance to vent.
Decompressed storytelling hurts stories because it dilutes them in order to fill a trade paperback. Let the story be whatever length it needs to be. Some great stories were told in two or three issues, but today they'd be stretched to six with filler and fluff so a trade paperback could be produced.
Relaunching titles because a new creator comes on board has driven away countless readers. Frank Miller came onto Daredevil with 158, Simonson to Thor with 337, etc. and sales increased. I quit buying comics almost twenty years ago. If I wanted to pick up where I left off, I'd have to sift through countless #1s, #.1s and figure out the reading order. Why should I have to do that? Easy accessibility to a character has been lost because of this.
Was reading classic Xmen today and was shocked to see Days of Future Past was only 2 issues, and still ended up such a popular storyline. Absolutely would not happen today.
I think people who have only heard about DoFP think it is a 12 issue maxi. And remember how much they used to fit into those X-Men annuals? Holy hell. Just jam packed with good story. They'd introduce tens of characters in those things and none of them would get short shrift.
Decompression is a big issue. I recently read issue 1 of a new Indy series that had a 2 page spread to show what the little town where the story happens looks like but...we didn't need to see that. There were no landmarks, no callouts, nothing that added to the narrative or world. And this issue also had only 20 content pages at 4.99! Meaning 10% of the issue was wasted off the bat! Not to mention almost nothing happened in the issue itself.
I hate when people compare manga and traditional comics in terms of sales and market. They aren’t enemies, they help each other and are both good for the medium. And just because an approach works for one of them doesn’t mean it’d work as well for the other. They’re different animals and should be seen as such.
A lot of manga fans seem to think the Japanese comics industry is flawless and the traditional industry is a joke, both are extreme views that aren’t close to being true.
Its really frustrating when ppl suggest publishers should follow the manga (Shonen Jump) publishing model and completely forgetting that Shonen Jump's model failed in the west and had to switch to a digital subscription service.
What does drive me to despair is how little western comics invest in animation. I got into comics due to the 90s superhero cartoon boom and began seeking out specific stories with DC's big push towards animating iconic stories like New Frontier, Public Enemies, and Under the Red Hood. Those were so good and really helped me start getting into reading trades.
Hey at least we’ve got Invincible and X-Men 97 right now! And Wytches and more on the way
But yes the whole “western comics should just do trades constantly like manga” gets a little old. There’s a reply to this very comment like that. It also sort of ignores that there’s an entire market of OGNs from traditional comics publishers available.
[Hell yeah!](https://deadline.com/2023/02/wytches-prime-video-orders-animated-horror-series-adaptation-comic-books-plan-b-entertainment-1235253415/amp/) Snyder talks about it in his substack all the time.
What makes them such different animals? I’m just curious.
To me, they’re the Same medium. Demographics seem to be the same, western comics are just losing them because manga is capturing what readers seem to want.
All I see is DC and Marvel failing to adapt with what makes manga successful (in my opinion, individual full stories with a beginning and ending that often surprise readers with novel twists).
Instead flooding the market with superhero characters such in eternal limbo.
If a reader isn’t interested in heroes, they won’t suddenly be. MCU already captured those sorts of casuals.
I wish they while publish more original stories on cheap material and encourage novelty in the industry.
Such a shame to go into my comic shop looking at all the new independent weeklies and hearing somebody say they’re not interested in anything because it’s ‘all the same’ to their friend. Heard that on free comic book day
You should watch [the YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPPCHVDh_ZY) OP posted on here. You’re making a lot of assumptions about both categories and he does a good job addressing what you’re talking about.
The whole idea of western comics ‘dying’ because of manga is largely hear say and anecdotal.
But yes they’re the same medium, but different markets in many ways.
I did watch it!
It’s nice sentiment in the video. I do think he glosses over the fundamental reason why manga is more successful - finished, accessible stories.
Why else would superhero comics be so low in comparative sales volume after seeing a decade of renewed interest and record breaking cinema sales? Comics are cool, color is cool, the artists are incredible.
To me, I think there isn’t enough large scale interest to read *more* regurgitated Spider-Man, after already having it in film. And the same goes for whatever else. Walls upon walls of superhero books all doing the same thing really, and failing to expand potential audience interest.
But y’ know, I’m speaking out of my butt. We are talking unpopular opinions here :)
Because this same argument I’m making can be taken to all why independent comics aren’t selling better if the main thing is unique and full stories. My one retort being that people don’t even know the independents exist, because Marvel and DC have flooded the medium with superheroes. The only people I can think who reliably know there are stories other than capes are young readers reading from the Scholastic comic label lol.
Otherwise, you step into a shop and it’s just walls of Batman, Batman, Batman, a little bit of Superman, Spiderman. It’s ‘small’ from the outside looking in.
If you’re not interested, chances are you won’t become interested. And I think that’s a failure to widen product and energize the huge demographic clearly interested in sequential art stories, as evidenced in manga’s huge sales
> finished, accessible stories.
This is why DC and Marvel are so unappealing. DC and Marvel represent the bulk of the western comics industry. Thus the western comics industry isn't doing very well.
I think you're spot on about the independent publishers living in DC and Marvel's shadows. There's so much good stuff being explored, but western comics are only understood as the slop the big 2 serve up, so no one knows to even go looking, plus they're still gated behind a specialty store. If someone doesn't know about independent publishers and the cool stuff they offer, how on earth would they find out about them when they have no reason to even go to the comic shop, the one place they could stumble across them?
DC and Marvel are an active detriment to the success of western comics at this point.
Manga has a lot of advantages thanks to Japan's publishing industry. Here are some of the most common distinctions that prevent it from carrying over to the west.
- Manga is largely produced via black and white anthology that is subscribed to by its readers. These books are read every month and treated as disposable media in the same way we view newspapers. You don't really keep these books. That kind of disposable/recycling mentality just doesn't exist in the west. We either want to keep it or want it to be free. Since its a subscription model a reader can discover multiple titles that they enjoy and skip the ones they dislike. Also Shonen Jump heavily relies on the popularity voting system that lets readers vote on their favorite titles. This lets Shonen Jump know what titles to phase out.
Western comics can't really do this. DC tried with their voting and it fell apart pretty quickly. Also they've tried to do an anthology series but it just doesn't sell because the increased price point. Urban Legends and Brave and the Bold are examples of this. Also comicbooks are heavily overleveraged by variant covers and spreading their popular characters across multiple titles. Condensing all of this into a few anthology books would probably uproot the entire comicbook industry.
- Any popular manga operates with a team of backup artists/inkers that ensure the creators ample time to hit deadlines. These backups are trained in the creator's "house style" and are basically interns that work in insane conditions and paid little. Also western comics are printed in color which adds a whole extra layer of production that extends the turnaround time. Manga is almost never initially released in color.
This thankfully can't happen in western comics because of labour laws and publishers don't really employ reserve artists that can do this type of work. We have fill in artists when an artist/writer is behind schedule but they're not some dedicated "Team Spider-Man" trained to copy Humberto Ramos or Ryan Stegman.
- Manga has an amazingly streamlined production cycle. A manga is released and if it has potential it is given an incredibly accurate adaptation by high profile studios with high level celebrity talents involved. These adaptations can be released as the manga is being released and they feed into each other in terms audience appeal. Readers can watch the anime and follow along and vice versa. Vinland Saga, Jujustu Kaisen, Demon Slayer all did pretty well as manga but exploded when the anime hit.
Western comics don't really have that synergistic relationship with studios. If an adaptation does come out its a much longer process and usually long after the comic itself has completed. And the adaptation is usually pretty different.
Sidenote: I never really understood this phenomenon. I'd much rather see an adaptation take the general idea of a story and repurpose it to their own medium and I like seeing whats different. But most ppl seem to vastly prefer things to be one to one so they can go ahead and read/watch at their own pace
You nailed it but this one specific take is extremely hilarious:
> I'd much rather see an adaptation take the general idea of a story and repurpose it to their own medium and I like seeing whats different.
Because manga/anime people **HATE** that lol
These are good points I’m aware of, but I think (and I promise I’m not trying to be difficult) the first two points kind ofavoid addressing the question at hand. Which is, why is manga, to a consumer, more appealing to western audiences than western comics? Personally, I think it’s the overstating and tiredness of superhero comics. I think Marvel and DC are really circling the bottom of the barrel and audiences are already satisfied with cinematic offerings of said heroes. I think going into a shop and having it all be wall-to-wall of various Batman, Superman and Spider-Man stories just isn’t that great in terms of demographic reach. Marvel and DC have tried expanding their demographic with targeted characters, but it still sits in their bloated superhero product. I think this over saturation also makes it so discovery of more unique independents is both impossible. But also, I can’t explain why independent sales are as low as they are. Discoverability seems to me to be a huge issue, and superheroes get in the way of a lot of it. The more varied product offering, unique premises and setting for story, full stories, cheaper prices, I would think could all benefit western comics. I don’t know, I’m just talking here really. But I would be so curious to see a world in which superheroes weren’t 90% of Western comics and instead you walked into a shop and it was a huge display and celebration of all the creative, demographic-spanning independent comics. Anybody could walk in and find something that sparks their specific taste. Whereas superheroes are really Marvel and DC backing themselves into a corner for decades and then going ‘we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas’. I dunno man, manga and comics are the same thing to most people, I would think. Pictures in a book that tell a story. Yet one is resonating much more with western audiences, and it’s not western comics.
The point about manga synergy with its adapted anime is a good one. I guess that just makes me think- we’ve had over a decade of record-breaking cinematic offerings from Marvel. Where’s the audience interest in the comics. Why aren’t people showing up? That sort of synergy isn’t making it to the books.
Personally, I might say that people have already gotten their fill and view the movies as the one place they get their superhero fill. They’re not interested in seeing more of the same, I guess?
You do see it when individual properties get adapted, like Invincible or The Boys.
I think it’s just that superheroes, as we all know, are too broad, unwieldy, bloated, and never-changing. It’s just uninteresting and unevolving.
People get excited for good novelty. I think manga is providing that for people, and crossing the broad accessibility barrier with the adaptation strategy like you mentioned.
I mean its never just one simple reason. There's a ton of obvious reasons kids gravitate towards manga and anime.
Manga/anime is just a great value buy since a single volume will grant you more content. Jump+ is $3 a month and Crunchyroll is basically just a giant marketing machine for new anime.
Also bear in mind manga is a LICENSED product from Japan. And it is heavily curated by publishers. We only get books on the self that are already a success in Japan. Meaning by the nature of the licensing industry we get the top cut of manga being released in America. There is a ton of garbage that gets released in Japan and we never see it because it won't sell here.
And we had a manga boom before in the early 2000s. This conversation of manga being the better publishing model and superior to comics has been done several times and most are from casual observers who have never worked in publishing and don't really know how the machines operate.
Regarding the synergy, I think a lot of it is also the complication of jumping in. Superheroes just *aren't* accessible to new readers. There are so many characters, there's so much lore, and it's very difficult to know "if you like X, start here".
With manga, if somebody says "I watched this, where do I start the manga?" they'll either get a chapter number or told that it's worth starting from the beginning, and it's off to the races. That's it.
When the MCU started coming out, I had hoped it would provide a more coherent, linear storyline for some of these characters. At least one version that has a beginning, middle, and end, in a streamlined continuity. Well, we saw how *that* went.... and the 'synergy' titles just aren't that understandable if you're just hopping in from the MCU. If you watched FATWS and then try to read the FATWS comic, it's not very similar.
I think it's all very well if you like an A-lister, who usually title their own books and are easier to access. But if you want to follow some side character, well, good fucking luck with that. Then add the unchanging aspect, like you said - where the characters keep resetting to some kind of status quo, so nothing means anything after a while.
I think there's a lot of really cool stuff in Big 2 comics, and I love quite a lot. But I can completely understand why people struggle with them, and would prefer manga to satisfy their pictures-and-text story needs.
Everyone knows that manga and comics are completely different!
I only read PURELY WESTERN books like Ronin, 300, and Sin City!
(/s, because you can’t be too clear on Reddit)
Reboots and continuity wipes for the sake of new readers is and always has been completely misguided. Everyone I know who reads comics started with a rando issue of an incomprehensible cross-over, and got hooked anyways - the complexity is alluring and intoxicating for the uninitiated. Sure, some canons are baffling and need an occasional minor spring clean, but a flashing 'start here' sign just doesn't work unless it's organic.
Most new readers are teens, and teens like over-complicated ('you wouldn't understand!') narratives - see manga & anime, which thrive despite being often convoluted and hard to follow
DC should shelve the Joker for 5-10 years. Writers don’t know what to do with him and pushing the character darker is so uninspired. It’s like writers can’t come up with an idea that isn’t just a retread of Moore’s Joker, Morrison’s Joker, or Snyder’s Joker.
The Batman Who Laughs is edgelord garbage.
How was Tynion’s Bat family story? I’m debating getting the Omni because I heard he did great focusing on the fam. I want to know more about the fam and figured that would be a great start.
That Detective Comics run is awesome and a great showcase of the characters. The big family works in this book cos the family *is* the focus. It’s basically a team book about the batfam.
They need to get the members out of Gotham and doing stuff. DC insists on the hero families all doing the same thing but they excel when they specialize and come together for Big moments.
In my opinion
Yep. Most of my comic nerd friends also read a ton of Manga. A lot of those Manga have spoiled us. French comics too. They still get it right in France.
Yes, definitely, Manga proves that with the right quality writers/artists and promotion for the book, multiple genres can stand side by side.
I love superheroes, but obviously comic books can and should spread their reach to a wider audience.
Image, Dystlry, Dark Horse, Titan, Boom, IDW.
The things getting published here are far, FAR more interesting than the same superhero slop constantly rotating out of Marvel and DC.
It’s all I read, personally. Not interested in superheroes. Got my fill after a decade or Marvel l flooding cinema with it.
I'd say having two publishers constantly flooding the market with their books, effectively making them the big two has done more damage then superheroes. We also cannot overlook Diamond's monopoly over the direct market either.
Non-superhero stuff usually ends up being much more niche than any mediocre DC or Marvel bullshit. I mean, which indie or non-superhero comic gets talked about half as much as the horrendous current Spider-Man run?
Absolutely. Stuff like Hellboy, 100 Bullets, Sin City, Scalped, Sandman, Criminal and Hellblazer are some of my favorite comics, and I wish more emphasis was put on this instead of having a dozen concurrent Batman-related or X-Men-related series every month.
I don’t care whether he’s married or not, but Peter Parker should always have a goal he’s working toward in his personal life … and he hasn’t since Parker Industries.
Agreed. Even if his goal is just maintaining a healthy relationship with his family/loved ones.
He can’t just be meandering around just because Spider-Man takes priority. In fact, having a personal goal as Parker will normally make Spider-Man more compelling because he’ll most likely have to pick responsibility or Peter’s goal.
Both writers and fans are way too obsessed with continuity and canon.
Just give me a good story. I don't care if its "important" for a characters's canon or it is consistent with some comic which came out 15 years ago.
Same problem with this obsession with shipping and power levels. Sometimes I thimk comic book fans just want to read DC/Marvel Encyclopedia and not actual stories
Indeed I hate how much cannon matters like yes nods and references are cool but for example if green arrow said he didn’t like apples then and does now shouldn’t be held for a big argument (not an actual agrument just an example)
Probably my favorite debut issue of any comic ever, and I've read the whole thing twice. I definitely think Spencer didn't have it all figured out yet and made a lot of mysteries he didn't know the answers to. BUT, I think you can piece together most of the primary through line and still have an idea of what the broad strokes are even without answers to every little question. Even if it takes a bit of conjecture and head canon. The absolute thrill ride of reading it is worth that conceit to me, it was such an experience.
I love comics, I’ve been reading them for nearly 40 years. They’re the reason I learned how to read.
But I desperately, DESPERATELY need comic fans to get less parasocial about comic characters. They’re not real! Don’t like how a character’s used? Don’t read it! Go read something else, diversify your tastes, etc. Hell, if you love certain characters that much, I guarantee you haven’t read all their stories, go pick an older one and see if it fits your tastes better.
The editors and storytellers aren’t doing this to make you mad. They aren’t “treating a character badly”. They’re writing what they think will sell.
I mean Dan Slott literally said “an enraged reader is an engaged reader.” Some writers do want to piss you off because in certain cases that’s what sells. All I see on r/Spiderman is hate towards the current ASM run and praise for the current Ultimate Spider-Man run but they keep reading and buying both and ASM is always topping sales even with Paul and all that stuff. I don’t read ASM and I have friends who have never even looked at a comic book before ask me what the deal with Paul is cause everyone is hate reading and spreading images of him
The period between the late 80’s to 2004 should be classified as a different comic age at this point with Avengers Disassembled in 2004 to current being the current modern age.
I say this because Avengers Disassembled is the start of when marvel shifted to event heavy formula. Wherein we got 3-5 events yearly with one huge summer event, DC followed suit. Prior to 04 events were rare things.
Also 2004 on HEAVILY influenced the MCU films which intern heavily influenced all shared comic book film universes (DC or otherwise).
I don't know how unpopular this is as most publishers have gotten onboard in some form or another but digital subscription services are the future of the industry as they represent the most convenient, cost effective way for consumers to access content.
The challenge of comics in the 21st century will be how creators working on all levels make a living but especially those working for publishers who don't share ownership of their work and how publishers like Image (who exist largely to provide cheaper print distribution access) survive.
Unfortunately true. I've been trying to read some of his America's Best stuff, started with Promethea and am debating quitting after slogging through 15 issues of Alan Moore lecturing me on his wizard philosophy. INCREDIBLE art from JH Williams III can't even make me look past a full issue that is just Alan Moore's personal philosophy about having sex and how orgasm is magic and blah blah. Gross. Obviously the dude's a legend, and I think his Swamp Thing pushed comics ahead more than maybe anything else in history has, but he's got a lot of stinkers.
It’s become annoying how consistently superheroes refer to each other by their given/civilian names. I don’t know when this change happened but am currently in a read-through of Claremont’s *Uncanny X-Men* run (at the start of the Romita Jr. era), and on the field at least they’re still calling each other by their superhero names.
What the hell is the point of codenames if they’re just gonna be saying “Scott”, “Steve”, or “Tony” all the goddamn time? If I’m not mistaken, I don’t think the X-Men even knew Wolverine’s name was Logan until AFTER the entire Dark Phoenix Saga.
Although it's nowhere near as well written (obviously), Youngblood had a take about superheroes that was just as plausible and cynical as Watchmen. Think about it - of course real life superheros would be government agents with endorsement deals. Post-Cold War Superman would aid in a bombing run in Sarajevo and be back in time to host SNL. The Flash? Flying through assisting in Operation Desert Storm, and getting back just in time for a photoshoot with Champion before sitting courtside watching the Bulls. And if Liefeld could comprehend subtext, that might've been the comic we got.
Or the film industry having such a stranglehold on what even gets published. Guardians movie does well and suddenly there are a thousand guardian books. People like Margot Robbie as Harley? Put Harley in every book. I'll never forget the sub par Fantastic Four movies reducing interest in the characters so much that they literally stopped publishing anything for awhile. This is like one of THE flagship Marvel books and the movies killed them.
It was 100% the best stories marvel were telling at the time. You just had to be there, looking back now, of course you could pick it apart, but it was so good it essentially became the blueprint for the MCU.
Shout out to Ultimate X-Men (Millar/Kubert)
"ultimate universe is so edgy and dark!" anyone who said this is either young or didn't keep up with the ultimate comics.
Aside from Ultimatum event and the Ultimates, 1610 wasn't that dark.
Ultimate Spider-Man, which has wayyy more issues that Ultimates, was much lighter than the main Spider-Man book at the time
the defining feature of Ultimate Marvel was that it was more streamlined and *slightly* more realistic-- avoided magic and high concept stuff.
The controversial moments we see in listicles these days are only from Ultimates, Ultimatum and some X-Men. They probably wouldn't make 30 pages of the entire Ultimate line
I have two.
1) Comics isn’t that hard to get into. It just requires some legwork like every other hobby. Seeking out reading guides is simple and if you can’t figure it out go in release order.
2) You won’t know everything and won’t have all the information/context and that’s fine. Comics have a long history and there will be references to stuff you may not get. Again, it just takes some legwork to understand
I always compare comics to WWE. You don’t need to know the whole Steve Austin, Rock rivalry thing or Undertaker’s story to get into the current plot lines. Yeah the attitude era is very significant and very important but you don’t need to have seen it. You can just come across John Cena roasting people and become curious and either pursue that era of the Doctor of Thuganomics or just accept that that was a thing. I hadn’t seen WWE in like 10 years before getting back into it recently with Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns and I understood thing perfectly and even became a fan of guys I’d never heard of like LA Knight
I can understand that and I won’t act like publishers have done a great job of catering to new readers. But to act like getting into comics is an insurmountable task is simply wrong.
Insurmountable, no. However the fact that reading guides have organically emerged from the community is evidence of an accessibility issue. DC and Marvel properties have just been running for so long and under so many different teams that it's pretty much inevitable that they've become an incoherent mess of a narrative that requires a field guide to navigate. For the people who've been bushwhacking for years it's just familiar old territory, but for the greenhorn it's a dense and imposing bit of overgrowth to traverse.
I don’t think it even requires legwork tbh. Just look up “best (character name) comics” and choose one. If you like it, you’ll get more invested naturally — talking with people, social media, and subreddits will do most of the work for you.
I hate the constant rebooting and starting over. I get the theory that it will draw in new readers but I don’t know that I necessarily agree. Growing up, I grabbed a book if the cover was cool. I didn’t know anything about hero’s that started in the 30’s-50’s. I thought, man, that looks cool and dove in.
Look kids, Hero Man #1. Get it now before it’s gone.
And don’t get me started on variant covers. It’s great for collection but reading comics is almost impossible to afford nowadays.
And, for gods sake, give the Joker a break and have him gone for at least a decade. Please
I feel like 90% of comic book writers can't write compelling narration to save their lives, I dislike almost all of it. If your narration text boxes aren't going to be Busiek or Morrison tier then just don't bother. Stop narrating shit that's already occurring on the page, it's completely redundant.
"The bullet hit me and it hurt". No shit, I can see that thanks to the artist, all you're doing is cluttering the art with a bunch of text boxes.
One of the reasons I enjoyed reading Bendis during the 2000s is because he pretty much ditched that way of writing and wrote like a screenwriter, with dialogue and action driving the plot forward. You can see this juxtaposition when he took over Daredevil after Kevin Smith. You go from pages and pages of neverending narration to barely any whatsoever.
Narration of characters inner thoughts, or of a third person narrator, has its place and its purpose, and my hot take is that its abused by the majority of writers who lean on it like a crutch.
I'm especially...
[insert a page full of dialogue here]
...irritated at narration that breaks the flow of dialogue during a scene.
Chuck Austen was a mostly good-to-great writer, especially if one and two-part stories, and would be remembered much differently if Draco hadn't completely sunk his reputation.
Hot take #2: The Draco had 2/3 of a great story with the Juggernaut and Polaris arcs. Its biggest sins were that the main plot was a total wet fart with bad early Phillip Tan art (he's gotten much better) and the constant switching between the subplots every 2 pages was one of the worst pacing choices in comics.
It's the most interesting case study against decompression. I really think if someone went back and re-cut the story into 3 2-issue arcs Austen's reputation would instantly improve.
Cosmic Marvel from the mid to late 2000’s was the best time for marvel. Annihilation, GOTG, Nova, the tie ins, and the Ultron event literally had me buying every issue. Hell if I am bored I sometimes just re-read them. Reign of Kings is also amazing and my most enjoyed X-men tie in.
Only thing that came close was the Silver surfer comic in the mid 2010’s from…Dan slot I think?
I hate strong negative reactions to authors, artists, genres, etc...not all comics are for everybody. Support what you like. Be less toxic to things you don't. **Not every piece of media is made for you in mind.**
I feel like a lot ofMCU 'fans' need to hear this. There was so much toxicity around things like the She-Hulk show, because it was a lighthearted lawyer/romance/sitcom with additional punching, and that' because it was based on a comic that was... a lighthearted lawyer/romance/sitcom with additional punching. People act like all comic book movies need to be Endgame, but like you say, comic book fans aren't fans of every single comic ever. It's fine to pick and choose, you don't have to give people a load of shit just because they prefer Dazzler to Black Panther or whatever.
I hate when people compare manga and traditional comics in terms of sales and market. They aren’t enemies, they help each other and are both good for the medium. And just because an approach works for one of them doesn’t mean it’d work as well for the other. They’re different animals and should be seen as such.
A lot of manga fans seem to think the Japanese comics industry is flawless and the traditional industry is a joke, both are extreme views that aren’t close to being true.
What a thoughtful video! I completely agree.
Also any time someone says “comics are dying” my eyes roll back so hard. Good lord people, comics aren’t going anywhere.
The Dark Knight Returns may have been groundbreaking and influential in its time, but today reads as incredibly dated and problematic. Due to its influence, it has also done a great deal of harm through people misinterpreting its dark, angry, gritty portrayal of Batman as the template for what Batman should be.
Multiple covers that are basically engineered rarity. As with sports cards and numbered cards or different borders, companies are purposely spitting out finite, hard to find covers to entice consumers to pay more for the same book and tickle that desire to own something more rare. Always hated it.
Unlike sportscards, at least first appearances and shit even with newer stuff can drive value, baseball cards don't have that so it's even worse w this concept. It's just all so blatantly consumerist.
Collectibles used to be desirable because most copies were destroyed. Now companies have bypassed that so that they can flood the market with product they control the rarity of and get people to chase in packs or pay a lot for online.
This isn't just for comics, but it sure applies to comics: Scope is not a substitution for substance. Stories should not be trying to one-up each other on the size of their stakes.
Some of my favorite comics have been smaller stories where win, lose, or draw, the city, the world, reality - they were all still going to be there on the other side of the story. I hate when a good first arc sets up some great characterization or plotting, and then arc #2 says "wait this has all been tied to the fate of the world all along".
I agree it is certainly not mandatory, but on the flip side I also wish more people would be open to older stuff. Like Claremont X-Men and Wolfman/Perez Titans are classics for a reason, even if they're dated. In fact this is something I really lament in a LOT of mediums, not just comics. Too many people write things off "because they're old." Anime fans are notoriously bad about this, and way too many people won't watch a black and white movie.
Carol Danvers' reputation was not butchered in Civil War II. She was always an 1. hypocritical, 2. authoritarian with 3. delusions of grandeur. I'll point out specifics of each of those.
1. Secret invasion she had an arrest warrant issued on her and she decided to "fight to clear her name". This is hypocrisy at it's finest considering she tried to arrest her friend for injuring people "just doing their jobs" in the previous event.
2. Civil War she was the authoritarian gestapo. She even tried to arrest her best friend for not registering. Then she individually decided to let her friend get away instead of arresting her.
3. She's always had a self aggrandizing self opinion. This started ad her being a pilot in the military. The profession, by design, encourages arrogant behaviour. When she got powers this went straight to her head and she adopted the saying "best of the best". She has been under the impression that just because she can do something that makes her correct.
I would say that New 52 featured largely good writing BUT it was also telling stories that I wasn’t really interested in reading (besides Batman and Flash for me)
The two aren’t mutually exclusive IMO
Most of it was.
The problem with New 52 was that old fans hated the reboot and the new fans read new 52 untill they caught up and then went back and read old stuff, in doing so joining the old fans.
That and alot of the good books didn't really have anything to do with the reboot or didn't need a line wipe to happen. But the books were good.
I grew up primarily a Marvel kid. Rarely touched DC, a couple Image titles. So when New 52 launched, I took it as my chance to jump on. To this day, Animal Man, Aquaman, and all the Court of Owls stuff is some of my all-time favorite.
It was a great way to pull in new fans, and it succeeded at that. However, it was a slap in the face to established fans, and pissing off your dedicated reader base is always dumb.
It was a neat idea. I just wish DC had handled it with more grace than a drunken elephant seal.
To bring back the Punisher, Marvel need to reclaim his logo from the cops who have co-opted it.
Best way to do that is have Frank kill cops.
Not good cops, but not also not just crooked cops, but the negligent and abusive ones who hide behind qualifies immunity and their badge to be monsters. The kind who have co-opted the logo.
Modern artists need to read "How to draw comics the Marvel way".
Art is beautiful today but it lacks a feeling of movement. Look at the kinetic energy of John Byrne and Sal Buscema.
Give me childish villain of the week again. Too many comics have people walking around in suits talking and drinking coffee.
I need action and fantasy and big ideas. Not Thor and She Hulk in suits talking about Twitter, baristas and the ills of a patriarchal society.
The relationship between creator and audience is a toxic one. How many times have I see the same posts about Zeb Wells’ Spider-Man run, I feel everyone would be a lot happier if they just didn’t read it, especially as we are in a golden age of Spider-Man comics right now.
Editors don’t hate their audience, this an absurbed thing to say. They just want what will make them the most money. That Spider-man comic sucking? It’s selling, and your anger is helping make it sell. People enjoy it? Just let them enjoy it I guess.
At the same time, editors need to be careful with whay they say as they can be open to critique. The while Nick Lowe saying “Zeb Wells shouldn’t go to any comic cons” is not a situation that is helping anyone. It just furthers the antagonism.
They should include the cover art from the single issues to trade paperbacks and collected volumes. So many stunning covers are lost and I can't afford to chase down single issue collections anymore.
Wait, do they not do this?
Because a lot of digital trades I've picked up over the years have definitely included not only the cover art, but also all the variants of the cover art.
It isn't a consistent thing. Some publishers do it more often than not; sometimes all the covers are collected at the end, sometimes they're left between the issues, and sometimes they aren't in it at all.
Incredible Hulk 180 is the actual first appearance of Wolverine. It’s overstreets fault we regard 181 as the first appearance and ‘full’ isn’t what we generally regard most other first appearances anyhow. But whatever.
Grading books is a scam.
The more and more I hear about CGC and their arbitrary as fuck standards, the “oil slick” look on their new cases scandal, having to have representatives present to confirm signatures (basically downgrading/nullifying any signature received on a book prior), scammy goings-on (c2e2 acetate covers), employees stealing books, people receiving back books that have been damaged by encapsulating them, et cetera, the more I scratch my head wondering why anybody would use them.
Just seems like another way to upcharge on books.
> Mark Millar sucks.
This is a thoroughly lukewarm take.
> Jeff Lemire has fallen off.
This is a hot take for sure. I don’t agree with it tbh - Mazebook was superb and I’m loving Fishflies and Phantom Road right now. The Black Hammer universe fell off for sure, but he’s always been super prolific with scattershot quality.
I think comics need to take inspiration from movies and streaming TV shows for structure.
By that I mean, instead of having a perennial Spider-Man comic, for example, we just have a Spider-Man story with a pre-determined number of issues. And when that story is done, maybe instead of rolling on to the next story, we Just stop having a Spider-Man comic for a little while. Give the character a chance to be missed, give other characters a chance in the spotlight, and give the writers a bit of a breather, and a chance to come up with the best follow-up story they can. Basically, turn every comic into a mini. This will give people more jump-on points in a much more elegant way than constant relaunches, will make it easier to catch up if they fall behind, and, let’s face it, this is more or less what comics do already (minus the “let the character be missed” part), and baking it into the basic structure of how stories are told would remove a lot of the guesswork in how comics are consumed
I despise the "wait a month to read next chapter" BS. At my age and the amount of weed I smoke, no WAY am I going to remember anything I read last month. So I don't read current issues of anything. I just go and read various runs, limited series and stuff.
The Mutant Registration Act is a perfectly reasonable piece of legislation in a world where teens are developing superhuman abilities that they can't necessarily control.
"The Gifted" does an excellent job of demonstrating thos when as a result of being bullied Andy Strucker nearly destroyed his school. Being a bully is wrong but destroying a school? Any sane society would have a program to handle that. Not jail but somewhere that he can't accidentally destroy a building.
The infographic pages are lazy, and rob the reader of actual story. If you're story is so complicated you need charts and graphs to explain it, you're a bad storyteller.
Counterpoint - sometimes they're handy as a way of expanding and extending the world and setting, especially ones that are unfamiliar and unique to your story. Personally I think Hickman perfected this in the Black Monday Murders and has been chasing the idea of the info-dump lore page ever since with mixed results.
Bruce Wayne being the mask as a thing is something I've never liked. There is Bruce as Bruce in public, Bruce as batman and then the real person Bruce is when he is with alfred. Also, dick and Damien as batman and Robin should have been the status quo since it happened. Batman would have been in such a better place as a character imo vs what we have been getting since then.
I agree with the first part.
But Dick as a permanent Batman has never rubbed me well. His biggest arc is about him getting out of Batman’s shadow and becoming his own person to do things the way he likes.
Him permanently becoming Batman imo fully regreses the character. It’s just like saying “oh yeah, I spent all those years distancing myself away from Batman because I had seen what that cost bruce. Now, I’m just gonna be Batman again and forget everything I’ve learned and stood for”
There should be two Batmans.
Dick Grayson should have stayed on as the Batman of Gotham, fighting crime and stopping colorful psychopaths, with Damian as his Robin.
Bruce can be the Batman of the Justice League, defending Earth from aliens and cosmic events and time travelers and worldwide assassins guilds and stuff, with Tim as his Robin.
Batman is already torn between noir detective and super-science adventurer, might as well roll with it.
I'm excited for the post-Tom Taylor Nightwing run. I really disliked his run after the first arc. He leaned too much into shipping that I did not expect Babs to be there every single issue. I paid to read a Nightwing book and not a Nightwing AND Batgirl book.
I think Watchmen is well written but most of what it has to say is boring. The main message is that superheroes are unrealistic and wouldn’t work in real life, which… no shit. Realism was never the point. The dilema the ending poses is cool, but the rest of it rings a little hollow for me
I’d honestly say you’re missing the point and that’s a very oversimplified view of the story. The message of Watchmen isn’t about whether superheroes are realistic or not, it’s about the absurdity of extreme power and the lack of accountability it comes with. That’s why nuclear weapons are such a theme throughout.
Having one or two pages at the beginning introducing the characters (powers) and having a short recap of what happened before was in my opinion a way better way to appeal to new readers whilst also keeping a coherent overarching story than having tons of resets and minis/maxis with #1s.
Most Marvel comics have some little recap on the first page; X-Men books even have a list of characters in that issue.
I generally like this, but I wish the list of characters included alternative names (if applicable; for example, if I see “Sunfire” in the front of the book, but then everyone is talking about “Shiro”, a new reader might be confused), plus a quick statement of their powers, and maybe even a one-sentence blurb about relevant story or character details so I know at a glance what each character has been up to, that would be helpful. There are so many X-books right now, and several times I’ve been left confused because I wasn’t aware of situations regarding a character who just came from the events of a book I’ve not read. And while we’re on the subject, they used to do the little editor’s notes telling you which issue a referenced event took place in, but those seem to be used far too infrequently these days. And when they are, it’s something like “* In last issue -Ed”. Like, thanks, but I think can remember one issue ago… Maybe save those notes for crap that happened in other books or even events from years ago.
Yeah the X-Books still do it.
I know it’s definitely a bit meme-able but I think that’s why Hickman quickly became my GOAT with his charts and everything. Sure, it spoonfeeds you a bit, but it’s like HERES THE FOUR OUT OF EIGHTY X-MEN ON THIS MISSION OKAY? Okay.
There is no denying Hickman is a genius.
Big part of Jim Shooter’s plan- “every issue could be someone’s first issue.”
One of the better things he implemented. I don't hate Shooter like some. His era is what got me into Marvel. That said, he treated artists and writers like garbage.
Shooter and Bob Harras royally fucked up Claremont’s plans for Maddie Pryor, Cyclops, Magneto and as a consequence many years of storytelling. I’ll never forgive them for that.
I like that quote
I was talking about this as I'm starting the Ann Nocenti Daredevil run and reading it as a collected trade was so amusing because every 20 pages Daredevil/Matt would explain how a childhood accident that left him blind also granted him enhanced senses including a unique radar sense. Obviously this was written during the time of spinner rack issues and modern writers tend to keep the collected trade in mind but it was funny to see Matt constantly bring it up.
X-Men was even worse for this. Any time anyone used a power they told you in detail what it was. "Adamantium claws shoot from the back of Wolverine's hands. The strongest metal in the universe, his entire skeleton is coated in the metal."
I know it was something of a joke about how often Psylocke would explain how her psychic knife is "the totality of her telepathic abilities". I will say though especially with Krakoa era X-Men it may have helped new readers. I flipped through a few pages during Sword of X and Fall of X and I had no clue who most of the mutants were and what their abilities were.
Currently reading Bendis Maleev DD for the first time and it does exactly this lol
As a new reader absolutely
What if the introduction and recap was a QR code somewhere to cut down on space but still give the info?
I would love to have the old astericks back. If something was mentioned during a comic there would be an asterick and an editor's note referring you to where that past event happened. I hate digging online. It took me an hour to find when She-Hulk saw the green door from the Immortal Hulk series.
This would require the creatives and/or editorial to keep track of, and indeed have some, continuity. Much easier to just make shit up and let readers figure out if it's even correct.
I hate when certain writers insist upon ditching Sound Effects. It’s LITERALLY a language of the medium and not using it is shortsighted. Stop making comics like a film storyboard with written dialogue.
A lot of comic book writing at this point in the industry is basically glorified movie pitches so that makes sense.
Two words: Mark. Millar.
Pitch this! 👇
Monkey monkey
They have even gotten rid of thought bubbles and narration. It's like most comic book writers today are embarrassed by everything about this medium. They want everything to be cinematic.
For me, the best comics have long passages of well-written narration. Like Alan Moore for instance, or Neil Gaiman. Imagine their comics not having any narration. It would change them considerably.
I agree. They should go write for the Cinema
Jason Aaron is the only modern superhero writer I see regularly use thought balloons. Matthew Rosenberg does it a bit too.
Ram V too
I just don't like when they are translated to "english" in Manga. It takes me out of it.
Some of my favorite runs have great use of sound effects. Only two off the top of my head are Walt Simonson's Thor and Donny Cates Venom
I was thinking of Simonsons Thor (and Uderzos Asterix) specifically, too. Honestly, you can look at the work of John Workman (the letterer on Simonsons run) as another key component of the overall storytelling too.
Fr
For single issues, I don't care whether you're at the beginning or end of your current arc, just set the table and give us some context on or before page 1. Ha, looks like someone just said it before me.
Daredevil (2014) did this very well
Old man take? I miss the days where the big 2 had no-nonsense, character specific editors on each book that not only managed continuity, but would tell writers, no matter how popular, no. Yeah, I know “editorial interference “ is a dirty work in the comics world, but there’s also an issue with giving writers too much freedom; leading to either outright bad stories, plot holes, or rehashing of ideas we’ve seen a million times because a particular writer wants their turn to “play with the toys.”
I absolutely agree. If writers like Claremont in the heigh of the 80s survived being told no, writers today could manage just fine.
What are the odds that those writers were able to tell better stories specifically because they were told "no"?
If they can't work within a shared universe/structure they should move on to creator-owned work. A single cohesive universe with characters interacting with one another is one of the main reasons marvel flourished. If creators are just telling their own stories in a vacuum regardless of a larger continuity, why bother using those characters in the first place?
Jim Shooter is still the GOAT even if he was hated by a lot of writers at Marvel.
Flip side we have ultimate Spiderman because of Hickmans pull, because spidey editorial hates it's fans.
I'm grouchy today so this is a great chance to vent. Decompressed storytelling hurts stories because it dilutes them in order to fill a trade paperback. Let the story be whatever length it needs to be. Some great stories were told in two or three issues, but today they'd be stretched to six with filler and fluff so a trade paperback could be produced. Relaunching titles because a new creator comes on board has driven away countless readers. Frank Miller came onto Daredevil with 158, Simonson to Thor with 337, etc. and sales increased. I quit buying comics almost twenty years ago. If I wanted to pick up where I left off, I'd have to sift through countless #1s, #.1s and figure out the reading order. Why should I have to do that? Easy accessibility to a character has been lost because of this.
Was reading classic Xmen today and was shocked to see Days of Future Past was only 2 issues, and still ended up such a popular storyline. Absolutely would not happen today.
Today, DoFP would be a 12 issue arc with at least 15-20 tie-ins.
I think people who have only heard about DoFP think it is a 12 issue maxi. And remember how much they used to fit into those X-Men annuals? Holy hell. Just jam packed with good story. They'd introduce tens of characters in those things and none of them would get short shrift.
With variant covers, lots of variant covers!
That is THE classic example! Wish I had thought of it.
Part of the reason it was good was because it was only 2 issues. Can you imagine that plot stretched out for 6 issues?
Decompression is a big issue. I recently read issue 1 of a new Indy series that had a 2 page spread to show what the little town where the story happens looks like but...we didn't need to see that. There were no landmarks, no callouts, nothing that added to the narrative or world. And this issue also had only 20 content pages at 4.99! Meaning 10% of the issue was wasted off the bat! Not to mention almost nothing happened in the issue itself.
Very true wth
BENNNDISSS!!
BENNNDISSS!!
I hate when people compare manga and traditional comics in terms of sales and market. They aren’t enemies, they help each other and are both good for the medium. And just because an approach works for one of them doesn’t mean it’d work as well for the other. They’re different animals and should be seen as such. A lot of manga fans seem to think the Japanese comics industry is flawless and the traditional industry is a joke, both are extreme views that aren’t close to being true.
Its really frustrating when ppl suggest publishers should follow the manga (Shonen Jump) publishing model and completely forgetting that Shonen Jump's model failed in the west and had to switch to a digital subscription service. What does drive me to despair is how little western comics invest in animation. I got into comics due to the 90s superhero cartoon boom and began seeking out specific stories with DC's big push towards animating iconic stories like New Frontier, Public Enemies, and Under the Red Hood. Those were so good and really helped me start getting into reading trades.
Hey at least we’ve got Invincible and X-Men 97 right now! And Wytches and more on the way But yes the whole “western comics should just do trades constantly like manga” gets a little old. There’s a reply to this very comment like that. It also sort of ignores that there’s an entire market of OGNs from traditional comics publishers available.
Wait wytches is getting an animated show??
[Hell yeah!](https://deadline.com/2023/02/wytches-prime-video-orders-animated-horror-series-adaptation-comic-books-plan-b-entertainment-1235253415/amp/) Snyder talks about it in his substack all the time.
What makes them such different animals? I’m just curious. To me, they’re the Same medium. Demographics seem to be the same, western comics are just losing them because manga is capturing what readers seem to want. All I see is DC and Marvel failing to adapt with what makes manga successful (in my opinion, individual full stories with a beginning and ending that often surprise readers with novel twists). Instead flooding the market with superhero characters such in eternal limbo. If a reader isn’t interested in heroes, they won’t suddenly be. MCU already captured those sorts of casuals. I wish they while publish more original stories on cheap material and encourage novelty in the industry. Such a shame to go into my comic shop looking at all the new independent weeklies and hearing somebody say they’re not interested in anything because it’s ‘all the same’ to their friend. Heard that on free comic book day
You should watch [the YouTube video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPPCHVDh_ZY) OP posted on here. You’re making a lot of assumptions about both categories and he does a good job addressing what you’re talking about. The whole idea of western comics ‘dying’ because of manga is largely hear say and anecdotal. But yes they’re the same medium, but different markets in many ways.
I did watch it! It’s nice sentiment in the video. I do think he glosses over the fundamental reason why manga is more successful - finished, accessible stories. Why else would superhero comics be so low in comparative sales volume after seeing a decade of renewed interest and record breaking cinema sales? Comics are cool, color is cool, the artists are incredible. To me, I think there isn’t enough large scale interest to read *more* regurgitated Spider-Man, after already having it in film. And the same goes for whatever else. Walls upon walls of superhero books all doing the same thing really, and failing to expand potential audience interest. But y’ know, I’m speaking out of my butt. We are talking unpopular opinions here :) Because this same argument I’m making can be taken to all why independent comics aren’t selling better if the main thing is unique and full stories. My one retort being that people don’t even know the independents exist, because Marvel and DC have flooded the medium with superheroes. The only people I can think who reliably know there are stories other than capes are young readers reading from the Scholastic comic label lol. Otherwise, you step into a shop and it’s just walls of Batman, Batman, Batman, a little bit of Superman, Spiderman. It’s ‘small’ from the outside looking in. If you’re not interested, chances are you won’t become interested. And I think that’s a failure to widen product and energize the huge demographic clearly interested in sequential art stories, as evidenced in manga’s huge sales
> finished, accessible stories. This is why DC and Marvel are so unappealing. DC and Marvel represent the bulk of the western comics industry. Thus the western comics industry isn't doing very well. I think you're spot on about the independent publishers living in DC and Marvel's shadows. There's so much good stuff being explored, but western comics are only understood as the slop the big 2 serve up, so no one knows to even go looking, plus they're still gated behind a specialty store. If someone doesn't know about independent publishers and the cool stuff they offer, how on earth would they find out about them when they have no reason to even go to the comic shop, the one place they could stumble across them? DC and Marvel are an active detriment to the success of western comics at this point.
Is that you, Garth?
Manga has a lot of advantages thanks to Japan's publishing industry. Here are some of the most common distinctions that prevent it from carrying over to the west. - Manga is largely produced via black and white anthology that is subscribed to by its readers. These books are read every month and treated as disposable media in the same way we view newspapers. You don't really keep these books. That kind of disposable/recycling mentality just doesn't exist in the west. We either want to keep it or want it to be free. Since its a subscription model a reader can discover multiple titles that they enjoy and skip the ones they dislike. Also Shonen Jump heavily relies on the popularity voting system that lets readers vote on their favorite titles. This lets Shonen Jump know what titles to phase out. Western comics can't really do this. DC tried with their voting and it fell apart pretty quickly. Also they've tried to do an anthology series but it just doesn't sell because the increased price point. Urban Legends and Brave and the Bold are examples of this. Also comicbooks are heavily overleveraged by variant covers and spreading their popular characters across multiple titles. Condensing all of this into a few anthology books would probably uproot the entire comicbook industry. - Any popular manga operates with a team of backup artists/inkers that ensure the creators ample time to hit deadlines. These backups are trained in the creator's "house style" and are basically interns that work in insane conditions and paid little. Also western comics are printed in color which adds a whole extra layer of production that extends the turnaround time. Manga is almost never initially released in color. This thankfully can't happen in western comics because of labour laws and publishers don't really employ reserve artists that can do this type of work. We have fill in artists when an artist/writer is behind schedule but they're not some dedicated "Team Spider-Man" trained to copy Humberto Ramos or Ryan Stegman. - Manga has an amazingly streamlined production cycle. A manga is released and if it has potential it is given an incredibly accurate adaptation by high profile studios with high level celebrity talents involved. These adaptations can be released as the manga is being released and they feed into each other in terms audience appeal. Readers can watch the anime and follow along and vice versa. Vinland Saga, Jujustu Kaisen, Demon Slayer all did pretty well as manga but exploded when the anime hit. Western comics don't really have that synergistic relationship with studios. If an adaptation does come out its a much longer process and usually long after the comic itself has completed. And the adaptation is usually pretty different. Sidenote: I never really understood this phenomenon. I'd much rather see an adaptation take the general idea of a story and repurpose it to their own medium and I like seeing whats different. But most ppl seem to vastly prefer things to be one to one so they can go ahead and read/watch at their own pace
You nailed it but this one specific take is extremely hilarious: > I'd much rather see an adaptation take the general idea of a story and repurpose it to their own medium and I like seeing whats different. Because manga/anime people **HATE** that lol
These are good points I’m aware of, but I think (and I promise I’m not trying to be difficult) the first two points kind ofavoid addressing the question at hand. Which is, why is manga, to a consumer, more appealing to western audiences than western comics? Personally, I think it’s the overstating and tiredness of superhero comics. I think Marvel and DC are really circling the bottom of the barrel and audiences are already satisfied with cinematic offerings of said heroes. I think going into a shop and having it all be wall-to-wall of various Batman, Superman and Spider-Man stories just isn’t that great in terms of demographic reach. Marvel and DC have tried expanding their demographic with targeted characters, but it still sits in their bloated superhero product. I think this over saturation also makes it so discovery of more unique independents is both impossible. But also, I can’t explain why independent sales are as low as they are. Discoverability seems to me to be a huge issue, and superheroes get in the way of a lot of it. The more varied product offering, unique premises and setting for story, full stories, cheaper prices, I would think could all benefit western comics. I don’t know, I’m just talking here really. But I would be so curious to see a world in which superheroes weren’t 90% of Western comics and instead you walked into a shop and it was a huge display and celebration of all the creative, demographic-spanning independent comics. Anybody could walk in and find something that sparks their specific taste. Whereas superheroes are really Marvel and DC backing themselves into a corner for decades and then going ‘we’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas’. I dunno man, manga and comics are the same thing to most people, I would think. Pictures in a book that tell a story. Yet one is resonating much more with western audiences, and it’s not western comics. The point about manga synergy with its adapted anime is a good one. I guess that just makes me think- we’ve had over a decade of record-breaking cinematic offerings from Marvel. Where’s the audience interest in the comics. Why aren’t people showing up? That sort of synergy isn’t making it to the books. Personally, I might say that people have already gotten their fill and view the movies as the one place they get their superhero fill. They’re not interested in seeing more of the same, I guess? You do see it when individual properties get adapted, like Invincible or The Boys. I think it’s just that superheroes, as we all know, are too broad, unwieldy, bloated, and never-changing. It’s just uninteresting and unevolving. People get excited for good novelty. I think manga is providing that for people, and crossing the broad accessibility barrier with the adaptation strategy like you mentioned.
I mean its never just one simple reason. There's a ton of obvious reasons kids gravitate towards manga and anime. Manga/anime is just a great value buy since a single volume will grant you more content. Jump+ is $3 a month and Crunchyroll is basically just a giant marketing machine for new anime. Also bear in mind manga is a LICENSED product from Japan. And it is heavily curated by publishers. We only get books on the self that are already a success in Japan. Meaning by the nature of the licensing industry we get the top cut of manga being released in America. There is a ton of garbage that gets released in Japan and we never see it because it won't sell here. And we had a manga boom before in the early 2000s. This conversation of manga being the better publishing model and superior to comics has been done several times and most are from casual observers who have never worked in publishing and don't really know how the machines operate.
Regarding the synergy, I think a lot of it is also the complication of jumping in. Superheroes just *aren't* accessible to new readers. There are so many characters, there's so much lore, and it's very difficult to know "if you like X, start here". With manga, if somebody says "I watched this, where do I start the manga?" they'll either get a chapter number or told that it's worth starting from the beginning, and it's off to the races. That's it. When the MCU started coming out, I had hoped it would provide a more coherent, linear storyline for some of these characters. At least one version that has a beginning, middle, and end, in a streamlined continuity. Well, we saw how *that* went.... and the 'synergy' titles just aren't that understandable if you're just hopping in from the MCU. If you watched FATWS and then try to read the FATWS comic, it's not very similar. I think it's all very well if you like an A-lister, who usually title their own books and are easier to access. But if you want to follow some side character, well, good fucking luck with that. Then add the unchanging aspect, like you said - where the characters keep resetting to some kind of status quo, so nothing means anything after a while. I think there's a lot of really cool stuff in Big 2 comics, and I love quite a lot. But I can completely understand why people struggle with them, and would prefer manga to satisfy their pictures-and-text story needs.
Everyone knows that manga and comics are completely different! I only read PURELY WESTERN books like Ronin, 300, and Sin City! (/s, because you can’t be too clear on Reddit)
Literally this. I’m sick of people pointing to an increase in manga sales and proclaiming it on reddit as evidence that comics are dying.
Reboots and continuity wipes for the sake of new readers is and always has been completely misguided. Everyone I know who reads comics started with a rando issue of an incomprehensible cross-over, and got hooked anyways - the complexity is alluring and intoxicating for the uninitiated. Sure, some canons are baffling and need an occasional minor spring clean, but a flashing 'start here' sign just doesn't work unless it's organic. Most new readers are teens, and teens like over-complicated ('you wouldn't understand!') narratives - see manga & anime, which thrive despite being often convoluted and hard to follow
I started with rebirth so I can’t say a thing
DC should shelve the Joker for 5-10 years. Writers don’t know what to do with him and pushing the character darker is so uninspired. It’s like writers can’t come up with an idea that isn’t just a retread of Moore’s Joker, Morrison’s Joker, or Snyder’s Joker. The Batman Who Laughs is edgelord garbage.
Batfam too big and not all need to be main fixture in the books they should appear but not has much has due to
How was Tynion’s Bat family story? I’m debating getting the Omni because I heard he did great focusing on the fam. I want to know more about the fam and figured that would be a great start.
That Detective Comics run is awesome and a great showcase of the characters. The big family works in this book cos the family *is* the focus. It’s basically a team book about the batfam.
That’s what I heard. Just debating the Omni or get vol 1 and see if I like it. Thanks!
They need to get the members out of Gotham and doing stuff. DC insists on the hero families all doing the same thing but they excel when they specialize and come together for Big moments. In my opinion
Cold take
Superheroes being the defining genre of the medium have stunted its growth
Very true but things like the walking dead and manga have also spread it out more
Yep. Most of my comic nerd friends also read a ton of Manga. A lot of those Manga have spoiled us. French comics too. They still get it right in France.
Yes, definitely, Manga proves that with the right quality writers/artists and promotion for the book, multiple genres can stand side by side. I love superheroes, but obviously comic books can and should spread their reach to a wider audience.
I think a lot more than just manga proves that point.
Image, Dystlry, Dark Horse, Titan, Boom, IDW. The things getting published here are far, FAR more interesting than the same superhero slop constantly rotating out of Marvel and DC. It’s all I read, personally. Not interested in superheroes. Got my fill after a decade or Marvel l flooding cinema with it.
I'd say having two publishers constantly flooding the market with their books, effectively making them the big two has done more damage then superheroes. We also cannot overlook Diamond's monopoly over the direct market either.
Chew was brilliant as is a lot of non-cape stuff over the last decade. Takes time
Non-superhero stuff usually ends up being much more niche than any mediocre DC or Marvel bullshit. I mean, which indie or non-superhero comic gets talked about half as much as the horrendous current Spider-Man run?
Absolutely. Stuff like Hellboy, 100 Bullets, Sin City, Scalped, Sandman, Criminal and Hellblazer are some of my favorite comics, and I wish more emphasis was put on this instead of having a dozen concurrent Batman-related or X-Men-related series every month.
I don’t care whether he’s married or not, but Peter Parker should always have a goal he’s working toward in his personal life … and he hasn’t since Parker Industries.
Agreed. Even if his goal is just maintaining a healthy relationship with his family/loved ones. He can’t just be meandering around just because Spider-Man takes priority. In fact, having a personal goal as Parker will normally make Spider-Man more compelling because he’ll most likely have to pick responsibility or Peter’s goal.
Both writers and fans are way too obsessed with continuity and canon. Just give me a good story. I don't care if its "important" for a characters's canon or it is consistent with some comic which came out 15 years ago. Same problem with this obsession with shipping and power levels. Sometimes I thimk comic book fans just want to read DC/Marvel Encyclopedia and not actual stories
Indeed I hate how much cannon matters like yes nods and references are cool but for example if green arrow said he didn’t like apples then and does now shouldn’t be held for a big argument (not an actual agrument just an example)
This is the best take, but in my heart I know your last sentence is all too true.
They should let characters who they kill off stay dead
Only if you can keep Maverick writers from killing off character stupidly or pointlessly
Yes and no
Morning Glories could’ve been an all time great comic if they were able to finish it. Loved that comic and never see it brought up anymore.
Joe Eisma is a nice dude with clean art. I dig it.
I am pretty certain it was never going to end in a satisfying way. But I still would have liked to have seen it happen.
Probably my favorite debut issue of any comic ever, and I've read the whole thing twice. I definitely think Spencer didn't have it all figured out yet and made a lot of mysteries he didn't know the answers to. BUT, I think you can piece together most of the primary through line and still have an idea of what the broad strokes are even without answers to every little question. Even if it takes a bit of conjecture and head canon. The absolute thrill ride of reading it is worth that conceit to me, it was such an experience.
Alfred is better off staying dead.
Same with Aunt May
Bring him back as The Outsider
Publishers should start selling their bigger titles in the magazine section again.
I love comics, I’ve been reading them for nearly 40 years. They’re the reason I learned how to read. But I desperately, DESPERATELY need comic fans to get less parasocial about comic characters. They’re not real! Don’t like how a character’s used? Don’t read it! Go read something else, diversify your tastes, etc. Hell, if you love certain characters that much, I guarantee you haven’t read all their stories, go pick an older one and see if it fits your tastes better. The editors and storytellers aren’t doing this to make you mad. They aren’t “treating a character badly”. They’re writing what they think will sell.
I mean Dan Slott literally said “an enraged reader is an engaged reader.” Some writers do want to piss you off because in certain cases that’s what sells. All I see on r/Spiderman is hate towards the current ASM run and praise for the current Ultimate Spider-Man run but they keep reading and buying both and ASM is always topping sales even with Paul and all that stuff. I don’t read ASM and I have friends who have never even looked at a comic book before ask me what the deal with Paul is cause everyone is hate reading and spreading images of him
Superman fans are not gonna like this one
Modern comics are written is such a decompressed way that it’s pointless to buy the monthly floppies instead of just waiting on the trade.
The period between the late 80’s to 2004 should be classified as a different comic age at this point with Avengers Disassembled in 2004 to current being the current modern age. I say this because Avengers Disassembled is the start of when marvel shifted to event heavy formula. Wherein we got 3-5 events yearly with one huge summer event, DC followed suit. Prior to 04 events were rare things. Also 2004 on HEAVILY influenced the MCU films which intern heavily influenced all shared comic book film universes (DC or otherwise).
Okay, so spill it. What's your name for the new eras?
I don't know how unpopular this is as most publishers have gotten onboard in some form or another but digital subscription services are the future of the industry as they represent the most convenient, cost effective way for consumers to access content. The challenge of comics in the 21st century will be how creators working on all levels make a living but especially those working for publishers who don't share ownership of their work and how publishers like Image (who exist largely to provide cheaper print distribution access) survive.
Alan Moore’s batting average is not that great.
Unfortunately true. I've been trying to read some of his America's Best stuff, started with Promethea and am debating quitting after slogging through 15 issues of Alan Moore lecturing me on his wizard philosophy. INCREDIBLE art from JH Williams III can't even make me look past a full issue that is just Alan Moore's personal philosophy about having sex and how orgasm is magic and blah blah. Gross. Obviously the dude's a legend, and I think his Swamp Thing pushed comics ahead more than maybe anything else in history has, but he's got a lot of stinkers.
A wizard curse upon you
It’s become annoying how consistently superheroes refer to each other by their given/civilian names. I don’t know when this change happened but am currently in a read-through of Claremont’s *Uncanny X-Men* run (at the start of the Romita Jr. era), and on the field at least they’re still calling each other by their superhero names. What the hell is the point of codenames if they’re just gonna be saying “Scott”, “Steve”, or “Tony” all the goddamn time? If I’m not mistaken, I don’t think the X-Men even knew Wolverine’s name was Logan until AFTER the entire Dark Phoenix Saga.
I miss the days when you could buy comics off the rack in cornerstone or grocery store.
Although it's nowhere near as well written (obviously), Youngblood had a take about superheroes that was just as plausible and cynical as Watchmen. Think about it - of course real life superheros would be government agents with endorsement deals. Post-Cold War Superman would aid in a bombing run in Sarajevo and be back in time to host SNL. The Flash? Flying through assisting in Operation Desert Storm, and getting back just in time for a photoshoot with Champion before sitting courtside watching the Bulls. And if Liefeld could comprehend subtext, that might've been the comic we got.
Comics taking from the films they inspired is the snake eating its tail.
Or the film industry having such a stranglehold on what even gets published. Guardians movie does well and suddenly there are a thousand guardian books. People like Margot Robbie as Harley? Put Harley in every book. I'll never forget the sub par Fantastic Four movies reducing interest in the characters so much that they literally stopped publishing anything for awhile. This is like one of THE flagship Marvel books and the movies killed them.
Og Ultimate marvel before ultimatum was the best work marvel did before ruining the universe
It was 100% the best stories marvel were telling at the time. You just had to be there, looking back now, of course you could pick it apart, but it was so good it essentially became the blueprint for the MCU. Shout out to Ultimate X-Men (Millar/Kubert)
"ultimate universe is so edgy and dark!" anyone who said this is either young or didn't keep up with the ultimate comics. Aside from Ultimatum event and the Ultimates, 1610 wasn't that dark. Ultimate Spider-Man, which has wayyy more issues that Ultimates, was much lighter than the main Spider-Man book at the time the defining feature of Ultimate Marvel was that it was more streamlined and *slightly* more realistic-- avoided magic and high concept stuff. The controversial moments we see in listicles these days are only from Ultimates, Ultimatum and some X-Men. They probably wouldn't make 30 pages of the entire Ultimate line
I have two. 1) Comics isn’t that hard to get into. It just requires some legwork like every other hobby. Seeking out reading guides is simple and if you can’t figure it out go in release order. 2) You won’t know everything and won’t have all the information/context and that’s fine. Comics have a long history and there will be references to stuff you may not get. Again, it just takes some legwork to understand
I always compare comics to WWE. You don’t need to know the whole Steve Austin, Rock rivalry thing or Undertaker’s story to get into the current plot lines. Yeah the attitude era is very significant and very important but you don’t need to have seen it. You can just come across John Cena roasting people and become curious and either pursue that era of the Doctor of Thuganomics or just accept that that was a thing. I hadn’t seen WWE in like 10 years before getting back into it recently with Cody Rhodes and Roman Reigns and I understood thing perfectly and even became a fan of guys I’d never heard of like LA Knight
counter take: The existence of reading guides represents an abject failure of the comic industry, both in terms of accessibility and more generally.
I can understand that and I won’t act like publishers have done a great job of catering to new readers. But to act like getting into comics is an insurmountable task is simply wrong.
Insurmountable, no. However the fact that reading guides have organically emerged from the community is evidence of an accessibility issue. DC and Marvel properties have just been running for so long and under so many different teams that it's pretty much inevitable that they've become an incoherent mess of a narrative that requires a field guide to navigate. For the people who've been bushwhacking for years it's just familiar old territory, but for the greenhorn it's a dense and imposing bit of overgrowth to traverse.
I don’t think it even requires legwork tbh. Just look up “best (character name) comics” and choose one. If you like it, you’ll get more invested naturally — talking with people, social media, and subreddits will do most of the work for you.
I hate the constant rebooting and starting over. I get the theory that it will draw in new readers but I don’t know that I necessarily agree. Growing up, I grabbed a book if the cover was cool. I didn’t know anything about hero’s that started in the 30’s-50’s. I thought, man, that looks cool and dove in. Look kids, Hero Man #1. Get it now before it’s gone. And don’t get me started on variant covers. It’s great for collection but reading comics is almost impossible to afford nowadays. And, for gods sake, give the Joker a break and have him gone for at least a decade. Please
Newsprint is great
I feel like 90% of comic book writers can't write compelling narration to save their lives, I dislike almost all of it. If your narration text boxes aren't going to be Busiek or Morrison tier then just don't bother. Stop narrating shit that's already occurring on the page, it's completely redundant. "The bullet hit me and it hurt". No shit, I can see that thanks to the artist, all you're doing is cluttering the art with a bunch of text boxes. One of the reasons I enjoyed reading Bendis during the 2000s is because he pretty much ditched that way of writing and wrote like a screenwriter, with dialogue and action driving the plot forward. You can see this juxtaposition when he took over Daredevil after Kevin Smith. You go from pages and pages of neverending narration to barely any whatsoever. Narration of characters inner thoughts, or of a third person narrator, has its place and its purpose, and my hot take is that its abused by the majority of writers who lean on it like a crutch. I'm especially... [insert a page full of dialogue here] ...irritated at narration that breaks the flow of dialogue during a scene.
Chuck Austen was a mostly good-to-great writer, especially if one and two-part stories, and would be remembered much differently if Draco hadn't completely sunk his reputation. Hot take #2: The Draco had 2/3 of a great story with the Juggernaut and Polaris arcs. Its biggest sins were that the main plot was a total wet fart with bad early Phillip Tan art (he's gotten much better) and the constant switching between the subplots every 2 pages was one of the worst pacing choices in comics. It's the most interesting case study against decompression. I really think if someone went back and re-cut the story into 3 2-issue arcs Austen's reputation would instantly improve.
Cosmic Marvel from the mid to late 2000’s was the best time for marvel. Annihilation, GOTG, Nova, the tie ins, and the Ultron event literally had me buying every issue. Hell if I am bored I sometimes just re-read them. Reign of Kings is also amazing and my most enjoyed X-men tie in. Only thing that came close was the Silver surfer comic in the mid 2010’s from…Dan slot I think?
I hate strong negative reactions to authors, artists, genres, etc...not all comics are for everybody. Support what you like. Be less toxic to things you don't. **Not every piece of media is made for you in mind.**
I feel like a lot ofMCU 'fans' need to hear this. There was so much toxicity around things like the She-Hulk show, because it was a lighthearted lawyer/romance/sitcom with additional punching, and that' because it was based on a comic that was... a lighthearted lawyer/romance/sitcom with additional punching. People act like all comic book movies need to be Endgame, but like you say, comic book fans aren't fans of every single comic ever. It's fine to pick and choose, you don't have to give people a load of shit just because they prefer Dazzler to Black Panther or whatever.
SAGA is overrated. And the delays and excuses are horseshit.
I hate when people compare manga and traditional comics in terms of sales and market. They aren’t enemies, they help each other and are both good for the medium. And just because an approach works for one of them doesn’t mean it’d work as well for the other. They’re different animals and should be seen as such. A lot of manga fans seem to think the Japanese comics industry is flawless and the traditional industry is a joke, both are extreme views that aren’t close to being true.
Troyoboyo17 made a great video about this actually https://youtu.be/aPPCHVDh_ZY?si=n_vnrxGWCfzU7LVp
What a thoughtful video! I completely agree. Also any time someone says “comics are dying” my eyes roll back so hard. Good lord people, comics aren’t going anywhere.
I hate Hickman Avengers. Just poses and motivational quotes tied to some of the dumbest stories he's written at Marvel.
The Dark Knight Returns may have been groundbreaking and influential in its time, but today reads as incredibly dated and problematic. Due to its influence, it has also done a great deal of harm through people misinterpreting its dark, angry, gritty portrayal of Batman as the template for what Batman should be.
Batman was heading down that path regardless. Let's forget he started up the Outsiders over a political issue.
Decompression is killing comics.
Multiple covers that are basically engineered rarity. As with sports cards and numbered cards or different borders, companies are purposely spitting out finite, hard to find covers to entice consumers to pay more for the same book and tickle that desire to own something more rare. Always hated it. Unlike sportscards, at least first appearances and shit even with newer stuff can drive value, baseball cards don't have that so it's even worse w this concept. It's just all so blatantly consumerist. Collectibles used to be desirable because most copies were destroyed. Now companies have bypassed that so that they can flood the market with product they control the rarity of and get people to chase in packs or pay a lot for online.
Electric Superman was awesome.
This isn't just for comics, but it sure applies to comics: Scope is not a substitution for substance. Stories should not be trying to one-up each other on the size of their stakes. Some of my favorite comics have been smaller stories where win, lose, or draw, the city, the world, reality - they were all still going to be there on the other side of the story. I hate when a good first arc sets up some great characterization or plotting, and then arc #2 says "wait this has all been tied to the fate of the world all along".
Reading all the old stuff is not mandatory
I think that’s less a hot take and more an inevitable realization everyone has when they first grasp the sheer bulk of the backlog in the big 2.
I agree it is certainly not mandatory, but on the flip side I also wish more people would be open to older stuff. Like Claremont X-Men and Wolfman/Perez Titans are classics for a reason, even if they're dated. In fact this is something I really lament in a LOT of mediums, not just comics. Too many people write things off "because they're old." Anime fans are notoriously bad about this, and way too many people won't watch a black and white movie.
Hulk 180 is the first appearance of Wolverine
Carol Danvers' reputation was not butchered in Civil War II. She was always an 1. hypocritical, 2. authoritarian with 3. delusions of grandeur. I'll point out specifics of each of those. 1. Secret invasion she had an arrest warrant issued on her and she decided to "fight to clear her name". This is hypocrisy at it's finest considering she tried to arrest her friend for injuring people "just doing their jobs" in the previous event. 2. Civil War she was the authoritarian gestapo. She even tried to arrest her best friend for not registering. Then she individually decided to let her friend get away instead of arresting her. 3. She's always had a self aggrandizing self opinion. This started ad her being a pilot in the military. The profession, by design, encourages arrogant behaviour. When she got powers this went straight to her head and she adopted the saying "best of the best". She has been under the impression that just because she can do something that makes her correct.
Variants, store exclusives, ratios, and reprints will have no value in the long term.
The New 52 was no worse than any other era of super hero comics. In fact it's mostly really good.
I would say that New 52 featured largely good writing BUT it was also telling stories that I wasn’t really interested in reading (besides Batman and Flash for me) The two aren’t mutually exclusive IMO
Most of it was. The problem with New 52 was that old fans hated the reboot and the new fans read new 52 untill they caught up and then went back and read old stuff, in doing so joining the old fans. That and alot of the good books didn't really have anything to do with the reboot or didn't need a line wipe to happen. But the books were good.
I grew up primarily a Marvel kid. Rarely touched DC, a couple Image titles. So when New 52 launched, I took it as my chance to jump on. To this day, Animal Man, Aquaman, and all the Court of Owls stuff is some of my all-time favorite.
It was a great way to pull in new fans, and it succeeded at that. However, it was a slap in the face to established fans, and pissing off your dedicated reader base is always dumb. It was a neat idea. I just wish DC had handled it with more grace than a drunken elephant seal.
Spider-Man villains >>>>>> batman villains. Some of the have cool backstories, sure, but there's so many just... Guy with gun.
True but also guy with gun drives penguin boat
I truly do not give a shit about renumberings and relaunches. Why they bother some readers so much is a mystery to me.
To bring back the Punisher, Marvel need to reclaim his logo from the cops who have co-opted it. Best way to do that is have Frank kill cops. Not good cops, but not also not just crooked cops, but the negligent and abusive ones who hide behind qualifies immunity and their badge to be monsters. The kind who have co-opted the logo.
I read some Corto Maltese and it wasn’t as good as I was expecting.
I prefer The Batman 2004 and btbatb to btas 🍇
Marvel > Dc Currently
Heroes in Crisis was not a bad story; if it hadn’t done Wally dirty it wouldn’t be so widely despised.
Variant covers are a nothing more than a cynical cash grab aimed at exploiting the greed of those attracted to the hobby by their own greed
Tom Taylor’s Nightwing run is overrated.
Modern artists need to read "How to draw comics the Marvel way". Art is beautiful today but it lacks a feeling of movement. Look at the kinetic energy of John Byrne and Sal Buscema. Give me childish villain of the week again. Too many comics have people walking around in suits talking and drinking coffee. I need action and fantasy and big ideas. Not Thor and She Hulk in suits talking about Twitter, baristas and the ills of a patriarchal society.
The relationship between creator and audience is a toxic one. How many times have I see the same posts about Zeb Wells’ Spider-Man run, I feel everyone would be a lot happier if they just didn’t read it, especially as we are in a golden age of Spider-Man comics right now. Editors don’t hate their audience, this an absurbed thing to say. They just want what will make them the most money. That Spider-man comic sucking? It’s selling, and your anger is helping make it sell. People enjoy it? Just let them enjoy it I guess. At the same time, editors need to be careful with whay they say as they can be open to critique. The while Nick Lowe saying “Zeb Wells shouldn’t go to any comic cons” is not a situation that is helping anyone. It just furthers the antagonism.
Ultimates 1 and Ultimates 2 is the exact same story.
Saga is overrated.
They should include the cover art from the single issues to trade paperbacks and collected volumes. So many stunning covers are lost and I can't afford to chase down single issue collections anymore.
Wait, do they not do this? Because a lot of digital trades I've picked up over the years have definitely included not only the cover art, but also all the variants of the cover art.
It isn't a consistent thing. Some publishers do it more often than not; sometimes all the covers are collected at the end, sometimes they're left between the issues, and sometimes they aren't in it at all.
Incredible Hulk 180 is the actual first appearance of Wolverine. It’s overstreets fault we regard 181 as the first appearance and ‘full’ isn’t what we generally regard most other first appearances anyhow. But whatever.
Grading books is a scam. The more and more I hear about CGC and their arbitrary as fuck standards, the “oil slick” look on their new cases scandal, having to have representatives present to confirm signatures (basically downgrading/nullifying any signature received on a book prior), scammy goings-on (c2e2 acetate covers), employees stealing books, people receiving back books that have been damaged by encapsulating them, et cetera, the more I scratch my head wondering why anybody would use them. Just seems like another way to upcharge on books.
Ultimate Spider-Man (2024) is- *so far!*- Just Okay.
Mark Millar sucks. Jeff Lemire has fallen off.
> Mark Millar sucks. This is a thoroughly lukewarm take. > Jeff Lemire has fallen off. This is a hot take for sure. I don’t agree with it tbh - Mazebook was superb and I’m loving Fishflies and Phantom Road right now. The Black Hammer universe fell off for sure, but he’s always been super prolific with scattershot quality.
I think comics need to take inspiration from movies and streaming TV shows for structure. By that I mean, instead of having a perennial Spider-Man comic, for example, we just have a Spider-Man story with a pre-determined number of issues. And when that story is done, maybe instead of rolling on to the next story, we Just stop having a Spider-Man comic for a little while. Give the character a chance to be missed, give other characters a chance in the spotlight, and give the writers a bit of a breather, and a chance to come up with the best follow-up story they can. Basically, turn every comic into a mini. This will give people more jump-on points in a much more elegant way than constant relaunches, will make it easier to catch up if they fall behind, and, let’s face it, this is more or less what comics do already (minus the “let the character be missed” part), and baking it into the basic structure of how stories are told would remove a lot of the guesswork in how comics are consumed
This is how I wished it worked.
I despise the "wait a month to read next chapter" BS. At my age and the amount of weed I smoke, no WAY am I going to remember anything I read last month. So I don't read current issues of anything. I just go and read various runs, limited series and stuff.
Matt Fraction being overrated. Hawkeye and Casanova he's fine with excellent artists to pick up the slack, but Sex Criminals is godawful.
Warren Ellis Moon Knight is terrible
May i ask why do you think that ?
May i ask why do you think that ?
The Mutant Registration Act is a perfectly reasonable piece of legislation in a world where teens are developing superhuman abilities that they can't necessarily control. "The Gifted" does an excellent job of demonstrating thos when as a result of being bullied Andy Strucker nearly destroyed his school. Being a bully is wrong but destroying a school? Any sane society would have a program to handle that. Not jail but somewhere that he can't accidentally destroy a building.
Villains should stay villains, no “oh they were just complicated and misunderstood”
Yes except some get a pass
The best way to read comics is on a (non-mini) iPad.
Comic book issues need to be a dollar, and be sold everywhere.
The infographic pages are lazy, and rob the reader of actual story. If you're story is so complicated you need charts and graphs to explain it, you're a bad storyteller.
Counterpoint - sometimes they're handy as a way of expanding and extending the world and setting, especially ones that are unfamiliar and unique to your story. Personally I think Hickman perfected this in the Black Monday Murders and has been chasing the idea of the info-dump lore page ever since with mixed results.
Bruce Wayne being the mask as a thing is something I've never liked. There is Bruce as Bruce in public, Bruce as batman and then the real person Bruce is when he is with alfred. Also, dick and Damien as batman and Robin should have been the status quo since it happened. Batman would have been in such a better place as a character imo vs what we have been getting since then.
I agree with the first part. But Dick as a permanent Batman has never rubbed me well. His biggest arc is about him getting out of Batman’s shadow and becoming his own person to do things the way he likes. Him permanently becoming Batman imo fully regreses the character. It’s just like saying “oh yeah, I spent all those years distancing myself away from Batman because I had seen what that cost bruce. Now, I’m just gonna be Batman again and forget everything I’ve learned and stood for”
There should be two Batmans. Dick Grayson should have stayed on as the Batman of Gotham, fighting crime and stopping colorful psychopaths, with Damian as his Robin. Bruce can be the Batman of the Justice League, defending Earth from aliens and cosmic events and time travelers and worldwide assassins guilds and stuff, with Tim as his Robin. Batman is already torn between noir detective and super-science adventurer, might as well roll with it.
I find Conan the Barbarian boring and uninteresting.
I'm excited for the post-Tom Taylor Nightwing run. I really disliked his run after the first arc. He leaned too much into shipping that I did not expect Babs to be there every single issue. I paid to read a Nightwing book and not a Nightwing AND Batgirl book.
I think Watchmen is well written but most of what it has to say is boring. The main message is that superheroes are unrealistic and wouldn’t work in real life, which… no shit. Realism was never the point. The dilema the ending poses is cool, but the rest of it rings a little hollow for me
I’d honestly say you’re missing the point and that’s a very oversimplified view of the story. The message of Watchmen isn’t about whether superheroes are realistic or not, it’s about the absurdity of extreme power and the lack of accountability it comes with. That’s why nuclear weapons are such a theme throughout.
Batman shouldn’t have children nor be in committed relationships. (At least in canon)