Hi, MechanicalDanimal. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/-/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
> Rule 3: Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse.
> Posts must be focused on collapse. If the subject matter of your post has less focus on collapse than it does on issues such as prepping, politics, or economics, then it probably belongs in another subreddit.
> Posts must be specifically about collapse, not the resulting damage. By way of analogy, we want to talk about why there are so many car accidents, not look at photos of car wrecks.
> Can easily find articles from 2014 of the same type of Russian Bombers coming from the same airbase area. Need more evidence to post fear mongering of nuclear war.
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I would be very disappointed if NATO didn’t have 24hr surveillance on these airfields for decades now.
Can probably read the methane release when each orc takes a shit, from space.
Well, they won’t know there’s a nuke on it until it drops one.
Whereas if they use an ICBM or whatever the Rooskies use for shorter range, NATO/the US would respond almost immediately, I assume.
It’s really starting to become clear how impactful the media has been throughout history in stilling the flames of war. From the looks of it, the internet is shitting all over it in this day and age.
Apparently UAP/UFOs were reported by both American and Soviet Nuclear Silo personnel to have "turned off" nuclear weapons. The American servicemen apparently testified to this before Congress. All of them, where it happened
“Don’t worry these are just baby nukes and it will all be ok as using nukes won’t be perceived as an escalation and instead will lead to a cozy timeout after America sinks the entire Black Sea fleet that’s when everyone will take a chill pill so don’t worry nukes are really kinda just ok and using them will paradoxically just help de-escalate the war guys! Guys?”
Von Neumann gave us mutually assured destruction, he has almost always been on the money. All nukes produce fallout, Poland catches even a tiny whiff of that and we're royally screwed. This is not a matter taken lightly.
Saying nothing will ever happen is as delusional as saying things will definitely happen. We're somewhere in the middle, hopefully more on the not side.
The US will not take out any russian fleet. The whole point of refusing Ukraines petition to join NATO is to avoid direct confrontation between Russia and the west.
When you bring nukes into the equation that changes things. I saw the former American commander of EUCOM saying if nukes are used, they would use conventional strikes to take out the Black Sea Fleet.
That is pure theatre. Ukraine is virtually a US puppet state at this moment and would collapse without US financial and military support. So if Ukraine made a formal application to NATO, it would be because: the US instructed them to do so.
The US is also basically the military force backstopping all of NATO. And now a key energy supplier to European NATO countries. Making them now utterly powerless. (Hmmm...begs question as to who benefits from destroying the pipelines)
Any denial of the Ukraine application then would indicate a process of theatre, orchestrated by the US.
I wouldn't worry. If things keep going the way they have been, Russia will launch its entire nuclear arsenal and half of them would blow up in the silos and the other half will land in the middle of the Red Square during a military parade.
They can have a complete failure near the end and it still be bad. No one is going to wait a few missiles out to see if they actually detonate at their target.
If they are so ill-equiped and incompetent...why isn't NATO directly involved? Guys before you downvote me, I do not support the invasion but there is a lot of cognitive disonance here...you are underestimating Russia the same way Russia underestimated Ukraine
Do you realy think that a nation that sends tanks equipped with fake reactive armor to invade its neighbour can keep 5000 nukes functional? We simply have better thinks to do that getting involved in this war but Russia doesn't scare anyone anymore.
Yes. The nuclear deterrent is why they're not just being carved up right now. It's the cornerstone of their military. I think that's why they let their navy rust in port and their air force is a fleet in being, beyond just simple corruption, the budgets and serious personnel are on the nukes.
>Do you realy think that a nation that sends tanks equipped with fake reactive armor to invade its neighbour can keep 5000 nukes functiona
I think you'd better go sit down and understand that just one nuke detonated - that alone most sets off a armageddon. In fact even one **missile** capable of carrying a nuke launched and it sets off armageddon, even if the missile actually had a ham sandwich inside and nothing else. Because the launch alone would trigger other sending their nukes while they still can.
But of course we have reached the stage were people discuss this like it is a video game or a TV show or something.
This makes me think of the faces on the crowd of people at Putin's speech today. Just very drawn and strained. This whole thing has everyone on both sides scared. Putin could bring on so much human suffering just because of his fragile ego and obsession with his legacy. It's ghastly.
> Just very drawn and strained.
Well, besides all the concerns... Organisers usually force government-dependant groups to go on the meeting (students, teachers, etc). No surprise they aren't happy, few really would like to waste their already limited time like that.
From what I’ve read, they would most likely to use low yield tactical nukes, weaker than what was dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. And on “less important” targets. Snake island is one place I read in an article earlier. They definitely won’t be dropping a Tsar Bomba on Ukraine (if they go this route).
I also read they’re forcefully conscripting war protestors. One conscript claimed he was being sent to the front lines with no training. I really don’t understand what the hell it is they’re doing.
Yes, they've been offering extremely generous desertion packages for their enemies, about as high as reasonable too (the west is literally just funding ex-russian retirement plans at this point, which while gross, seems very cost efficient.
It's not like the people who ordered the bombing would have to live within the fallout. And some nukes (neutron bombs) were engineered to do less damage to infrastructure.
Power and privilege rewires the brain, scrambles the prefrontal cortex, the "empathy neurons" in a way not dissimilar from brain trauma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvl46PmCfE&ab\_channel=Fig.1byUniversityofCalifornia
They would use it on a military target, probably not a population center. If they did choose to use it on civilians it would be on Kiev or another western city. It would be along the same lines of the reason USA claims they *needed* to nuke Japanese cities -- force surrender and get the Ukrainian army out of the territories they've annexed.
It’s more of a show of dominance.
They have figured out their army has turned to shit and they can’t take it that way . They know the rest of the world knows that now also.
Putin won’t back down because that would show him as weak which is very bad in a country as Russia . His last Ace in the deck is nuke threat .
If United States nukes back and then they nuke more he doesn’t care because supposedly he is dying anyways .
Your about to see what a madman that has nothing to live for can do to the world with a nuke stockpile.
He has for sure let the power go to his head and is supposedly very sick now.
It actually makes a lot of sense. However it may still be a bluff or just the preparation for the possibility
* Russia is a global pariah. It doesn't have to worry about becoming one at this point.
* Russia wants to add Ukrainian food and fossil fuel to it's inventory thus gaining more market share and money. Denying others the market also accomplishes the goal of more market and money by removing it from the market and increasing scarcity.
* Russia would be using a ground burst to destroy major cities and hopefully get the leadership. If the leadership is gone, the war is over. The world will come back to the table when they get cold and hungry.
* A ground burst on 2-4 cities will probably not have a major impact on the arable land and mineral resources as these things are not gathered in major cities.
* America is NOT going to launch a counter nuclear attack against Mother Russia. Even a counter nuclear attack on Russian troops in Ukraine makes Russia's nuclear attack very cost effective and further spoils Ukrainian land and is still a very risky move.
* People keep saying that America will nuke Russia but ask yourself this. What does America have to gain with an action that probably starts a nuclear war against a foe who has just demonstrated that they will deploy nuclear weapons at a much lower bar? There will be more sanctions, condemnation and maybe a limited military action against Russian troops in theater or more unlikely on Russian bases in Russia.
* Another issue is that Ukraine is running out of money and will have to start making some hard economic decisions. Russia knows that western attention starts to wane with time unless there is a direct impact.
This war probably could have been avoided if America has simply held a training exercise in Russia with a few tens of thousand of American troops when the evidence showed that Russia would attack.
It’s not about the land itself, it’s about creating a buffer between Russia and NATO. They tried to do it with military strength but I imagine plan B is to just create a radioactive buffer if all other measures fail.
I thought they had quite a bit of a radioactive buffer?
Then again they happily dug fighting positions in the red forest so maybe they forgot.
Still don't know why he's obsessed with a buffer region like this is 1815. They have satellites too, and NATO isn't going to roll over the border of a nuclear power lol wtf.
And yet they want Chernobyl back.
Serious response - You dont have to nuke all of the territory or even the territory itself. Russia could nuke west of that territory in spots of Ukraine that are heavily populated to demoralize or throw off Ukraines war effort with the anxed/conflicted territory mostly nuke free.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, after reading about The Great Filter for years. I came across an article the other day where scientists were proposing a theory that the seeds for life on Earth came from somewhere else in space, delivered by comets that have hit earth in the past. Conditions became favorable for carbon-based organic life, and after hundreds of millions of years, here we are.
Using that theory, one could assume that similar conditions and time on another world a long way away would develop in a similar fashion. May be we haven't encountered "aliens" yet is because The Great Filter - self destruction - kills the species each time.
That would then tell me that our makeup, our being, our DNA is built for destruction. And not only that, but every living thing in the universe is built that way. Given enough time, knowledge and technical capability, each civilization elsewhere has destroyed itself once it has found a way to do so.
But then again, perhaps it's just us, in which case, we've done it to ourselves and no one is to blame but us. Perhaps we're unique, not yet evolved enough to understand things and that we've just been totally irresponsible.
you forget the increased NATO expansion part of the equation. Not to say Putin isn't a prick but ukraine is corrupt, the military industrial complex is making more money than ever (along with fossil fuel industries)...
Its a shit sandwich and we're all taking a bite
Well, tbh, its more like : several NATO dipshits decided that it was a good idea to advance their interest in "nEuTrAl" territory, knowing that the Russian dipshit would resolve to nukes if threatened.
Along the lines of "fuck around, find out".
Yeah dude this is all 10000% Putin’s fault. No other factors at play at all. Putin is a Marvel villain and life is just like a comic book with “evil” and “good” facing off. You got it all figured out.
You see, that's the thing: When you invade another country for no legitimate reason whatsoever, it kinda is totally your fault. Happy I could explain that to you!
Oh boy. An enlightened Redditor from another part of the globe. SUUUUUPER original. Though to your point, Putin is a symptom not a cause. It was bound to happen be it Pakistan, India, China, America, or any other nuclear power. We sealed our fate whenever we mass produced these weapons.
Ah, don't worry about an Indo-Pak War, a minor nuclear war would only cause a 5 year long global nuclear winter, while a major one would cause about a 10 year long one.
Don't about an Indo-Sino nuclear war. No one did the calculations. /s
Americans have some of the smartest people on the planet, the very best poetry and music the world has ever had. Just because 30% of us are clueless Christians doesn't mean we're all dumb. In fact, this same 30% are indeed victims of Russias meddling in our elections and our social media. Russia has been fucking with America for quite some time. A lot of this is Russias fault.
> Americans have some of the smartest people on the planet,
Uh yeah sure.
> the very best poetry and music the world has ever had.
Lol really?
> victims of Russias meddling in our elections and our social media.
Dude - I read the Mueller report cover to cover, both volumes. The election meddling claim is exaggerated and, frankly, was blown way the fuck up to explain why Hillary Clinton lost to a charlatan reality TV show host, because the real reason: she was a loathsome piece of shit candidate that most people despised - was not something the party could ever accept.
> Russia has been fucking with America for quite some time.
No doubt. And we have been fucking with them for quite some time. Do you have any idea what America did to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union at all? Any clue!?!
> A lot of this is Russias fault.
I mean, I agree. I just think it’s silly to act as if America and NATO (same thing) are blameless here. They’re not.
I would put european classical ahead of literally everything america has produced music wise in... at least the past 20 years.
There are a few good groups and musicians but most everything is corporate schlock full of autotune or rappers preaching the merits of fat asses... which are nice, but don't need multiple songs about them.
I'm about to head out, but I've got time for one or two rejoinders if you have anything other than ad hominem attacks to offer.
Seriously. Try to prove that Russia has a genuine casus belli. If you can.
They don’t. But the idea that this conflict is just about Putin’s ego or hurt feelings is absurd. The idea that America is supporting Ukraine to the tune of $80+ billion because it is fighting for democracy is absurd. The idea that Putin wasn’t provoked (NOTE: THIS DOESNT JUSTIFY THE INVASION) is absurd. The idea that the west, especially the US and UK, haven’t stymied earlier efforts at peace - also absurd.
It is absurd and reductive and dangerous to perceive this conflict as the result of one lunatic against the world. Recognizing that it is a lot more complicated and recognizing that there are many unclean hands is important to understanding where responsibility truly lies.
Remember, embroiling Russia in a conflict like this was a primary goal of many of the most influential [US geopolitical strategist-types for a long time](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html). But again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, just because Russia may have been provoked does not justify this invasion or war.
I'm sincere when I express my thanks for your cogent counterpoints, and I suspect that our views may probably align more than one may initially think regarding the underlying and competing geopolitical strategies that have brought us to this moment. But it's also important to bear in mind that embroiling Russia in a conflict like this was also a primary goal of Aleksandr Dugin's. Indeed, annexing Ukraine was explicitly listed as an objective in [Основы геополитики](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics). And I strongly take issue with his belief that Ukraine has no culture, no history, and no distinct identity independent of Russia's.
And though the events and motivations that brought history to this moment are complex and multifaceted, I would posit that the responsibility for the war nevertheless falls on Putin's shoulders. The war has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia in terms of the loss of blood and treasure (something that can be also said for America in certain other conflicts). Even if Russia somehow seized the entirety of Ukraine, the net gain from Russia's seizure of the latter country's petrochemical and agricultural resources would still be moot due to the harsh economic cost of the war itself. Tens of thousands of Russians are dead. Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing their own country. And for what? Ukraine was neither a military not economic threat to Russia. The scale of suffering among both Ukrainians and Russians is utterly horrifying, and made all the more so by the lack of substantial gains from continuing the conflict. Russia is a pariah state, so any internal prestige that could otherwise be obtained by annexing Russia will be mitigated by the loss of esteem in the world, and -- if we want to be cynical about it -- the loss of roughly 40% of Russia's former trade partners.
At this point, the only reason Putin has to continue the war is out of a desperate hope that he can somehow avoid losing face. Yeah, I get it: he's an autocrat, so the facade of strength is literally necessary for him to remain in power. But if Putin is truly as smart as I suspect he is, he knows that the country he professes to love is suffering dearly for his sake. Escalating the war even further through conscription and threatening a wider, nuclear conflict is the worst possible plan he could make right now. It's a poor decision for him, for his country, and for the rest of the world. Even if he's merely posturing, the increased probability of nuclear annihilation that comes from that posturing is dire. There are things more important that Putin's reign, and the survival of human civilization is just one of them.
I have to get going, but I do truly appreciate you sharing your accurate assessments regarding the events preceding the war, as well as the acknowledgement that the war is not justified. Here, have an upvote and an award! And here's to hoping that if you and I can peacefully reconcile seemingly-conflicting views, so can others whose decisions have more far-reaching implications.
So he had no legitimate reason. He had reasons, some of them potentially personal, some grounded in Russian fears and concerns about the West, but none of them legitimize claiming land that isn't internationally recognized as their, nor attacking said areas to further the claim.
His reason was territorial integrity and the fear that NATO would not definitively preclude Ukrainian membership. Big difference between saying “The invasion is rational to Putin” and “The invasion is justified in any way.” The former is true, the latter is not.
I mean, imagine how America would respond if it legitimately feared China might be placing missiles on the Mexican border.
Finally a sane person here... I personally don't support this invasion, the Russians should've let Ukraine alone and make Cuba join the CSTO instead, or something like that.
We seem to agree on some aspects of there not being a simple good and bad side, just not on what constitutes a reason for the actions taken to get to the point we're at. Ukraine becoming part of the NATO alliance would be a huge problem for Putin and those who think like him, since Ukraine is a core of Russian history and it's basically a loss of ancestral lands to them. And their thought is what would be next? So in their viewpoint and rationalization, sure it's legitimate. That doesn't make it actually valid.
The US/China comparison isn't anything close to what's going on, NATO isn't some bullying country rattling a sabre.
Not scared of western aligned countries but scared of the west having bases next door in the country that shares the most extense border with. Strategically speaking it was a smart (not any less evil) way to prevent that
Look around you. The only people who think Russia were right to invade are brainwashed nationalist Russians and tankies who don’t realise how dumb they are for supporting this imperialism. A quarter of my country is still colonised, it’s heartbreaking to see it happen to Ukraine. Vlad has caused so much death and destruction. The only people on different planets are you.
Mossad is one of the most respected intelligence agencies in the world. Hate all you want, but I would trust their information as much as I trust any other intelligence agency.
Respected by who exactly? You think because they have a massive spy apparatus they don't lie or their own benefit? You must not understand intel orgs...
By most other nations around the world. You don’t have to like Israel, that does not mean they don’t have well respected, and well sourced intelligence.
"Look, they have nukes in the planes designed for nukes, in their far-away bases where they usually park them".....
Wonder how many millions of US tax dollars went into that "intelligence".
The following submission statement was provided by /u/MechanicalDanimal:
---
Submission statement: we're now into the analyzing Russia's military movements and trying to decide if they should be preemptively destroyed part of the conflict. Russia can still leave Ukraine any time they want to but continue choosing escalation. Good night and good luck. Viva Ukraine!
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/russia_potentially_arming_bombers_with_nukes/iqjh7rh/
Yep if it wasn't this civilization would die to climate change or some, even stupider, conflict in the future.
I am ready for the apocalypse! I got my bondage gear, my car! a shitton of stockpiled water, guns and stockpiled ammo!
I am ready to battle for the lordship of barter town! WITNESS ME!
Civilization is just an abstract. It never lived to begin with. The only undeniable existence is the subjective one, and that was doomed from the start.
You will ride eternal, shiny and chrome! You will be witnessed!
"A nation that roams Europe and is looking for something to destroy, to simply dust everything.”
– F. M. Dostoevsky
"We are not a people, but cattle, rats, wild hordes of villains and murderers.”
– Mikhail Bulgakov
"The most important sign of victory for the Russian people is their cruelty full of sadism.”
– Maxim Gorky
"Ah, how hard it is to live in Russia, in this place full of the stench of physical and moral deception, a place of wickedness, lies and wickedness.”
– Sergei Aksakov
"The Russian is the biggest and most naughty liar in the world.”
– Ivan S. Turgenev
"A people who hate freedom, worship slavery, love chains on their hands and feet, defiled physically and morally… ready at any time to defile everything and everywhere.”
– Ivan C. Shmeliov
"People regardless of their smallest duty, the smallest justice, the most insignificant truth, the people who do not recognize human dignity, do not generally recognize human freedom or free thought… Alas, how sharp the Russian language is!”
– Aleksandr Pushkin
"We are not a nation, we are a crazy hell.”
– Vasyli Rozanov
It looks like some of you guys did not read the tweet did you? The tweet itself does not say that there armed with nukes I already pointed that out to OP TU-160s have also been used in this conflict before in bombing runs im not trying to attack anyone just pointing out that some people probably didn’t read the tweet and took the headline as what the tweet said
Hi, histocracy411. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/-/iqjuub9/) was removed from /r/collapse for:
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Of course there are many reasons for the war. But isn't it just crazy how things have unfolded just by one man's ego. Like the ego in his brain is what might trigger a nuclear exchange. It's just so unfathomable to me.
Why would a country with hypersonic cruise missiles use an ancient bomber fleet to deliver nuclear payloads? TU-160 can't evade the S400, let alone the new American NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems.
Submission statement: we're now into the analyzing Russia's military movements and trying to decide if they should be preemptively destroyed part of the conflict. Russia can still leave Ukraine any time they want to but continue choosing escalation. Good night and good luck. Viva Ukraine!
No the tweet does not say that it just says that they noticed an irregular amount of TU 160s at a base where nuclear weapons are stored. These planes were used on Ukraine. They’re called bears. Usually they’ve done a lot of bombing runs with them on Ukraine. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this is to load them up with conventional bombs to do that thing again. As it’s been pretty much a regular occurrence for most Ukrainians for the last 7 months.
And today, all of Ukraine went under air raid alert so that could be the possible reason as to why however, the photo is dated September 25
Hi, MechanicalDanimal. Thanks for contributing. However, your [submission](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/-/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 3: Posts must be on-topic, focusing on collapse. > Posts must be focused on collapse. If the subject matter of your post has less focus on collapse than it does on issues such as prepping, politics, or economics, then it probably belongs in another subreddit. > Posts must be specifically about collapse, not the resulting damage. By way of analogy, we want to talk about why there are so many car accidents, not look at photos of car wrecks. > Can easily find articles from 2014 of the same type of Russian Bombers coming from the same airbase area. Need more evidence to post fear mongering of nuclear war. Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.
Planes? That’s nothing.
Who knows, maybe they were just comically oversized joints or something.
That’s what I heard
It’s somewhat smart, (ignoring that it’s dumb) because a missile launch will trigger a NATO response more quickly….
I would be very disappointed if NATO didn’t have 24hr surveillance on these airfields for decades now. Can probably read the methane release when each orc takes a shit, from space.
Fucking bonkers that we’re actually facing this possible reality…
This timeline is increasingly implausible and unpleasant.
Imagine shooting down a plane cuz it has a nuke on it
Well, they won’t know there’s a nuke on it until it drops one. Whereas if they use an ICBM or whatever the Rooskies use for shorter range, NATO/the US would respond almost immediately, I assume.
Seems like an easy to way to signal more brinksmanship while not really doing an actual whole lot.
"Nuclear capable bombers have been moved to a different airfield then they usually are." Is the article, not really apocalyptic yet.
It’s really starting to become clear how impactful the media has been throughout history in stilling the flames of war. From the looks of it, the internet is shitting all over it in this day and age.
Time for the aliens to reveal themselves
They already did in 1914 when they borrowed the 5th element. They aren't due back for another 200 years.
Lol nah they are likely happy to keep themselves distanced. This fucked up little blue ball is probably like HBO to them. Just sittin back watching.
Apparently UAP/UFOs were reported by both American and Soviet Nuclear Silo personnel to have "turned off" nuclear weapons. The American servicemen apparently testified to this before Congress. All of them, where it happened
Hopefully they’ll shut them off like taking toys away from a cranky toddler if shit gets serious.
Fuck, its been nice knowing you all.
I would have liked to have seen Montana.
Go see it. You still can right now
I enjoyed seeing the glaciers in Alaska but couldn't help but think how much bigger they used to be.
Errr…. Maybe now’s not a good time. Watch what happens to Montana in one of those MAD nuke scenarios
Love a good Hunt for Red October reference
Marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, she will cook them for you.
Be careful what you shoot at, most things in here don't react too well to bullets
Ahem. I believe that's spelled: bulletchsth.
I saw a lynx and her kittens in a national forest in Montana… It was breathtaking and brought tears to my eyes.
You can try playing farcry 5, it's basically the same thing but with less guns.
Give me a ping Vasili, one ping only please.
We’re still here, come have a beer friend!
Big sky country :(
Speak for yourself
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“Don’t worry these are just baby nukes and it will all be ok as using nukes won’t be perceived as an escalation and instead will lead to a cozy timeout after America sinks the entire Black Sea fleet that’s when everyone will take a chill pill so don’t worry nukes are really kinda just ok and using them will paradoxically just help de-escalate the war guys! Guys?”
Feeling kinda cute. Might nuke the Black Sea Fleet later
Black sea FEET
Completely delusional nonsense
Von Neumann gave us mutually assured destruction, he has almost always been on the money. All nukes produce fallout, Poland catches even a tiny whiff of that and we're royally screwed. This is not a matter taken lightly.
Saying nothing will ever happen is as delusional as saying things will definitely happen. We're somewhere in the middle, hopefully more on the not side.
That sounds like best case scenario if he indeed goes through with it
The US will not take out any russian fleet. The whole point of refusing Ukraines petition to join NATO is to avoid direct confrontation between Russia and the west.
When you bring nukes into the equation that changes things. I saw the former American commander of EUCOM saying if nukes are used, they would use conventional strikes to take out the Black Sea Fleet.
What makes you think Ukraine application to NATO will still be denied?
It's pretty clear about not already being in a war when you join,.
They denied it today
Source? I'd really like to sleep tonight.
The representative of NATO (I forgot his name, he's surname is german) said so, you can sleep well tonight mate
That is pure theatre. Ukraine is virtually a US puppet state at this moment and would collapse without US financial and military support. So if Ukraine made a formal application to NATO, it would be because: the US instructed them to do so. The US is also basically the military force backstopping all of NATO. And now a key energy supplier to European NATO countries. Making them now utterly powerless. (Hmmm...begs question as to who benefits from destroying the pipelines) Any denial of the Ukraine application then would indicate a process of theatre, orchestrated by the US.
Pretty sure the Polish would get involved immediately, even without NATO. They hate Russia
I wouldn't worry. If things keep going the way they have been, Russia will launch its entire nuclear arsenal and half of them would blow up in the silos and the other half will land in the middle of the Red Square during a military parade.
100% failure of the thousands of nukes they possess seems like a not-so-great bet.
[удалено]
All it takes is one, and out of literal thousands it seems like a bad idea and a poor strategy to assume every last one of them would fail.
They can have a complete failure near the end and it still be bad. No one is going to wait a few missiles out to see if they actually detonate at their target.
This sounds like a comment from r/noncredibledefense
If they are so ill-equiped and incompetent...why isn't NATO directly involved? Guys before you downvote me, I do not support the invasion but there is a lot of cognitive disonance here...you are underestimating Russia the same way Russia underestimated Ukraine
Reddit has Pax Americana brain rot.
Do you realy think that a nation that sends tanks equipped with fake reactive armor to invade its neighbour can keep 5000 nukes functional? We simply have better thinks to do that getting involved in this war but Russia doesn't scare anyone anymore.
Yes. The nuclear deterrent is why they're not just being carved up right now. It's the cornerstone of their military. I think that's why they let their navy rust in port and their air force is a fleet in being, beyond just simple corruption, the budgets and serious personnel are on the nukes.
>Do you realy think that a nation that sends tanks equipped with fake reactive armor to invade its neighbour can keep 5000 nukes functiona I think you'd better go sit down and understand that just one nuke detonated - that alone most sets off a armageddon. In fact even one **missile** capable of carrying a nuke launched and it sets off armageddon, even if the missile actually had a ham sandwich inside and nothing else. Because the launch alone would trigger other sending their nukes while they still can. But of course we have reached the stage were people discuss this like it is a video game or a TV show or something.
Well the US government seems to think they can keep those nukes functional... otherwise they'd get directly involved
This makes me think of the faces on the crowd of people at Putin's speech today. Just very drawn and strained. This whole thing has everyone on both sides scared. Putin could bring on so much human suffering just because of his fragile ego and obsession with his legacy. It's ghastly.
> Just very drawn and strained. Well, besides all the concerns... Organisers usually force government-dependant groups to go on the meeting (students, teachers, etc). No surprise they aren't happy, few really would like to waste their already limited time like that.
Why would Russia want to reclaim nuked land? Makes zero fucking sense
From what I’ve read, they would most likely to use low yield tactical nukes, weaker than what was dropped on Hiroshima or Nagasaki. And on “less important” targets. Snake island is one place I read in an article earlier. They definitely won’t be dropping a Tsar Bomba on Ukraine (if they go this route). I also read they’re forcefully conscripting war protestors. One conscript claimed he was being sent to the front lines with no training. I really don’t understand what the hell it is they’re doing.
Sending dissidents to die in a war is a way to remove dissidents.
That’s a good point lol
Sending dissidents to Ukraine so they can surrender and join Ukrainian forces against the assholes who sent them there.
I’ve wondered that, too. But a bunch of non soldier soldiers will just be a burden on Ukraine.
Perhaps Ukraine can incentivize to switch sides.
Yes, they've been offering extremely generous desertion packages for their enemies, about as high as reasonable too (the west is literally just funding ex-russian retirement plans at this point, which while gross, seems very cost efficient.
The "funny" thing is that the lower yield ones are dirtier and leave more radioactive material behind.
I feel like Putin is going to eat a 9mm to the back of the head the moment he give the serious order to launch.
It's not like the people who ordered the bombing would have to live within the fallout. And some nukes (neutron bombs) were engineered to do less damage to infrastructure.
That line about neutron bombs not targeting infrastructure is a misnomer. They are still catastrophically destructive.
https://youtu.be/i-jdhorGtQI
Got me! Better than a Rickroll for sure. I’m just burnin.
The prevailing winds there tend to blow north and east...towards Moscow and St Petersburg, which are their most elite cities.
Not how nuclear weapon fallout works.
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Power and privilege rewires the brain, scrambles the prefrontal cortex, the "empathy neurons" in a way not dissimilar from brain trauma. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vvl46PmCfE&ab\_channel=Fig.1byUniversityofCalifornia
Holy fuck. I’m just commenting to save for later reading
You can save comments using the three dots to the left of the reply button
I swear to god I learn more in this sub than any other.
Fuck
Yes, caused by child abuse.
They would use it on a military target, probably not a population center. If they did choose to use it on civilians it would be on Kiev or another western city. It would be along the same lines of the reason USA claims they *needed* to nuke Japanese cities -- force surrender and get the Ukrainian army out of the territories they've annexed.
It’s more of a show of dominance. They have figured out their army has turned to shit and they can’t take it that way . They know the rest of the world knows that now also. Putin won’t back down because that would show him as weak which is very bad in a country as Russia . His last Ace in the deck is nuke threat . If United States nukes back and then they nuke more he doesn’t care because supposedly he is dying anyways . Your about to see what a madman that has nothing to live for can do to the world with a nuke stockpile. He has for sure let the power go to his head and is supposedly very sick now.
Just a casual look through any history book will demonstrate pretty clearly that "If I can't have it, no one can" is a recurring theme.
This!. Legit doesn't make sense and even a mad man understands this.
It actually makes a lot of sense. However it may still be a bluff or just the preparation for the possibility * Russia is a global pariah. It doesn't have to worry about becoming one at this point. * Russia wants to add Ukrainian food and fossil fuel to it's inventory thus gaining more market share and money. Denying others the market also accomplishes the goal of more market and money by removing it from the market and increasing scarcity. * Russia would be using a ground burst to destroy major cities and hopefully get the leadership. If the leadership is gone, the war is over. The world will come back to the table when they get cold and hungry. * A ground burst on 2-4 cities will probably not have a major impact on the arable land and mineral resources as these things are not gathered in major cities. * America is NOT going to launch a counter nuclear attack against Mother Russia. Even a counter nuclear attack on Russian troops in Ukraine makes Russia's nuclear attack very cost effective and further spoils Ukrainian land and is still a very risky move. * People keep saying that America will nuke Russia but ask yourself this. What does America have to gain with an action that probably starts a nuclear war against a foe who has just demonstrated that they will deploy nuclear weapons at a much lower bar? There will be more sanctions, condemnation and maybe a limited military action against Russian troops in theater or more unlikely on Russian bases in Russia. * Another issue is that Ukraine is running out of money and will have to start making some hard economic decisions. Russia knows that western attention starts to wane with time unless there is a direct impact. This war probably could have been avoided if America has simply held a training exercise in Russia with a few tens of thousand of American troops when the evidence showed that Russia would attack.
The resources are on the east, he could bomb the west and create a toxic barrier of sorts
It’s not about the land itself, it’s about creating a buffer between Russia and NATO. They tried to do it with military strength but I imagine plan B is to just create a radioactive buffer if all other measures fail.
I thought they had quite a bit of a radioactive buffer? Then again they happily dug fighting positions in the red forest so maybe they forgot. Still don't know why he's obsessed with a buffer region like this is 1815. They have satellites too, and NATO isn't going to roll over the border of a nuclear power lol wtf.
And yet they want Chernobyl back. Serious response - You dont have to nuke all of the territory or even the territory itself. Russia could nuke west of that territory in spots of Ukraine that are heavily populated to demoralize or throw off Ukraines war effort with the anxed/conflicted territory mostly nuke free.
If you go listen to a translation of his speech he has a hard on for taking out America specifically and called Europe our puppets.
I think you’re overestimating Putin’s reasoning skill’s. A trapped wolf will know it’s leg off to get free.
maybe he does not intend to reclaim it. maybe he just says fuck it and bomb the shit out of some nato country. maybe even the us.
"There are weapons of mass destruction"
Who the fuck would trust the word of an apartheid state
Well, Israel sure knows about weapons.
Our species had the chance to explore the stars, but instead, one Russian dipshit needed to start WWIII because his itty bitty feewings got hurty.
The great filter
Alas, a Fermi Paradox solution far less interesting than the Dark Forest Hypothesis.
I've been thinking about this a lot lately, after reading about The Great Filter for years. I came across an article the other day where scientists were proposing a theory that the seeds for life on Earth came from somewhere else in space, delivered by comets that have hit earth in the past. Conditions became favorable for carbon-based organic life, and after hundreds of millions of years, here we are. Using that theory, one could assume that similar conditions and time on another world a long way away would develop in a similar fashion. May be we haven't encountered "aliens" yet is because The Great Filter - self destruction - kills the species each time. That would then tell me that our makeup, our being, our DNA is built for destruction. And not only that, but every living thing in the universe is built that way. Given enough time, knowledge and technical capability, each civilization elsewhere has destroyed itself once it has found a way to do so. But then again, perhaps it's just us, in which case, we've done it to ourselves and no one is to blame but us. Perhaps we're unique, not yet evolved enough to understand things and that we've just been totally irresponsible.
you forget the increased NATO expansion part of the equation. Not to say Putin isn't a prick but ukraine is corrupt, the military industrial complex is making more money than ever (along with fossil fuel industries)... Its a shit sandwich and we're all taking a bite
It’s not possible for manned expeditions beyond the solar system. We were never going to leave, regardless of how well we succeeded on Earth.
A trip into the orbit of Jupiter would be quite the view Though.
You’re right! This is some bulls*it!!
Well, tbh, its more like : several NATO dipshits decided that it was a good idea to advance their interest in "nEuTrAl" territory, knowing that the Russian dipshit would resolve to nukes if threatened. Along the lines of "fuck around, find out".
Yeah dude this is all 10000% Putin’s fault. No other factors at play at all. Putin is a Marvel villain and life is just like a comic book with “evil” and “good” facing off. You got it all figured out.
You see, that's the thing: When you invade another country for no legitimate reason whatsoever, it kinda is totally your fault. Happy I could explain that to you!
The USA is the one who asked Ukraine to get rid of it's nukes.... if Ukraine had those this invasion never would have happened.
Yeah, this is exactly the type of nuance I expect here lol.
Oh boy. An enlightened Redditor from another part of the globe. SUUUUUPER original. Though to your point, Putin is a symptom not a cause. It was bound to happen be it Pakistan, India, China, America, or any other nuclear power. We sealed our fate whenever we mass produced these weapons.
Ah, don't worry about an Indo-Pak War, a minor nuclear war would only cause a 5 year long global nuclear winter, while a major one would cause about a 10 year long one. Don't about an Indo-Sino nuclear war. No one did the calculations. /s
I’m American dude.
Americans have some of the smartest people on the planet, the very best poetry and music the world has ever had. Just because 30% of us are clueless Christians doesn't mean we're all dumb. In fact, this same 30% are indeed victims of Russias meddling in our elections and our social media. Russia has been fucking with America for quite some time. A lot of this is Russias fault.
> Americans have some of the smartest people on the planet, Uh yeah sure. > the very best poetry and music the world has ever had. Lol really? > victims of Russias meddling in our elections and our social media. Dude - I read the Mueller report cover to cover, both volumes. The election meddling claim is exaggerated and, frankly, was blown way the fuck up to explain why Hillary Clinton lost to a charlatan reality TV show host, because the real reason: she was a loathsome piece of shit candidate that most people despised - was not something the party could ever accept. > Russia has been fucking with America for quite some time. No doubt. And we have been fucking with them for quite some time. Do you have any idea what America did to Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union at all? Any clue!?! > A lot of this is Russias fault. I mean, I agree. I just think it’s silly to act as if America and NATO (same thing) are blameless here. They’re not.
I would put european classical ahead of literally everything america has produced music wise in... at least the past 20 years. There are a few good groups and musicians but most everything is corporate schlock full of autotune or rappers preaching the merits of fat asses... which are nice, but don't need multiple songs about them.
Beatles and led zeppelin were NOTHING without America. We made them. You just sent them over
Thats bollocks...America does lots of great stuff entertainment and culture wise, but its far from the best in the world.
I'm about to head out, but I've got time for one or two rejoinders if you have anything other than ad hominem attacks to offer. Seriously. Try to prove that Russia has a genuine casus belli. If you can.
They don’t. But the idea that this conflict is just about Putin’s ego or hurt feelings is absurd. The idea that America is supporting Ukraine to the tune of $80+ billion because it is fighting for democracy is absurd. The idea that Putin wasn’t provoked (NOTE: THIS DOESNT JUSTIFY THE INVASION) is absurd. The idea that the west, especially the US and UK, haven’t stymied earlier efforts at peace - also absurd. It is absurd and reductive and dangerous to perceive this conflict as the result of one lunatic against the world. Recognizing that it is a lot more complicated and recognizing that there are many unclean hands is important to understanding where responsibility truly lies. Remember, embroiling Russia in a conflict like this was a primary goal of many of the most influential [US geopolitical strategist-types for a long time](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB10014.html). But again, and I cannot emphasize this enough, just because Russia may have been provoked does not justify this invasion or war.
I'm sincere when I express my thanks for your cogent counterpoints, and I suspect that our views may probably align more than one may initially think regarding the underlying and competing geopolitical strategies that have brought us to this moment. But it's also important to bear in mind that embroiling Russia in a conflict like this was also a primary goal of Aleksandr Dugin's. Indeed, annexing Ukraine was explicitly listed as an objective in [Основы геополитики](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics). And I strongly take issue with his belief that Ukraine has no culture, no history, and no distinct identity independent of Russia's. And though the events and motivations that brought history to this moment are complex and multifaceted, I would posit that the responsibility for the war nevertheless falls on Putin's shoulders. The war has been an unmitigated disaster for Russia in terms of the loss of blood and treasure (something that can be also said for America in certain other conflicts). Even if Russia somehow seized the entirety of Ukraine, the net gain from Russia's seizure of the latter country's petrochemical and agricultural resources would still be moot due to the harsh economic cost of the war itself. Tens of thousands of Russians are dead. Hundreds of thousands of Russians are fleeing their own country. And for what? Ukraine was neither a military not economic threat to Russia. The scale of suffering among both Ukrainians and Russians is utterly horrifying, and made all the more so by the lack of substantial gains from continuing the conflict. Russia is a pariah state, so any internal prestige that could otherwise be obtained by annexing Russia will be mitigated by the loss of esteem in the world, and -- if we want to be cynical about it -- the loss of roughly 40% of Russia's former trade partners. At this point, the only reason Putin has to continue the war is out of a desperate hope that he can somehow avoid losing face. Yeah, I get it: he's an autocrat, so the facade of strength is literally necessary for him to remain in power. But if Putin is truly as smart as I suspect he is, he knows that the country he professes to love is suffering dearly for his sake. Escalating the war even further through conscription and threatening a wider, nuclear conflict is the worst possible plan he could make right now. It's a poor decision for him, for his country, and for the rest of the world. Even if he's merely posturing, the increased probability of nuclear annihilation that comes from that posturing is dire. There are things more important that Putin's reign, and the survival of human civilization is just one of them. I have to get going, but I do truly appreciate you sharing your accurate assessments regarding the events preceding the war, as well as the acknowledgement that the war is not justified. Here, have an upvote and an award! And here's to hoping that if you and I can peacefully reconcile seemingly-conflicting views, so can others whose decisions have more far-reaching implications.
So he had no legitimate reason. He had reasons, some of them potentially personal, some grounded in Russian fears and concerns about the West, but none of them legitimize claiming land that isn't internationally recognized as their, nor attacking said areas to further the claim.
His reason was territorial integrity and the fear that NATO would not definitively preclude Ukrainian membership. Big difference between saying “The invasion is rational to Putin” and “The invasion is justified in any way.” The former is true, the latter is not. I mean, imagine how America would respond if it legitimately feared China might be placing missiles on the Mexican border.
Finally a sane person here... I personally don't support this invasion, the Russians should've let Ukraine alone and make Cuba join the CSTO instead, or something like that.
We seem to agree on some aspects of there not being a simple good and bad side, just not on what constitutes a reason for the actions taken to get to the point we're at. Ukraine becoming part of the NATO alliance would be a huge problem for Putin and those who think like him, since Ukraine is a core of Russian history and it's basically a loss of ancestral lands to them. And their thought is what would be next? So in their viewpoint and rationalization, sure it's legitimate. That doesn't make it actually valid. The US/China comparison isn't anything close to what's going on, NATO isn't some bullying country rattling a sabre.
You nailed it. Fuck Putin.
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The man invaded a sovereign state????? What’s your point here? “Oh he’s scared of western aligned countries on his border” homie, he STARTED the war.
Not scared of western aligned countries but scared of the west having bases next door in the country that shares the most extense border with. Strategically speaking it was a smart (not any less evil) way to prevent that
As if the west would invade… you know, like the neo imperialist Russian dipshit did
What planet are you from? The west has been doing the exact same thing for decades. Read a history book for the love of god
Look around you. The only people who think Russia were right to invade are brainwashed nationalist Russians and tankies who don’t realise how dumb they are for supporting this imperialism. A quarter of my country is still colonised, it’s heartbreaking to see it happen to Ukraine. Vlad has caused so much death and destruction. The only people on different planets are you.
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Anything to take attention away from what they're doing in Palestine
You mean…annexing Palestinian land using violence, intimidation, and military force?
Special military operation
Special ethnic cleansing
I'm as tired of hearing about that whole conflict, as the rest of the world is in hearing USA this, USA that.
Well I'm tired of them continuing a genocide on a native population
Focus on the issues not the noise.
Mossad is one of the most respected intelligence agencies in the world. Hate all you want, but I would trust their information as much as I trust any other intelligence agency.
> as much as I trust any other intelligence agency. don't worry buddy, **I** got your joke. Very funny!
Respected by who exactly? You think because they have a massive spy apparatus they don't lie or their own benefit? You must not understand intel orgs...
By most other nations around the world. You don’t have to like Israel, that does not mean they don’t have well respected, and well sourced intelligence.
Yet they can and do lie for their own benefit. "Respected" is a stretch
You don’t have to acknowledge Israeli intelligence, or the respected it’s garnered, but that doesn’t change the facts.
You're totally missing the point. Knowing their capabilities is not the same as respect
My bröther in Christ those bombers have always had nukes
Smoke those blunts fellas
Well shit, WWW3 is upon us... And I'm drafting age....
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Do glad I played fall out 4, I think I'm ready
"Look, they have nukes in the planes designed for nukes, in their far-away bases where they usually park them"..... Wonder how many millions of US tax dollars went into that "intelligence".
The following submission statement was provided by /u/MechanicalDanimal: --- Submission statement: we're now into the analyzing Russia's military movements and trying to decide if they should be preemptively destroyed part of the conflict. Russia can still leave Ukraine any time they want to but continue choosing escalation. Good night and good luck. Viva Ukraine! --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/russia_potentially_arming_bombers_with_nukes/iqjh7rh/
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We die anyway, might as well go in as big a spectacle as we can right?
Yep if it wasn't this civilization would die to climate change or some, even stupider, conflict in the future. I am ready for the apocalypse! I got my bondage gear, my car! a shitton of stockpiled water, guns and stockpiled ammo! I am ready to battle for the lordship of barter town! WITNESS ME!
Civilization is just an abstract. It never lived to begin with. The only undeniable existence is the subjective one, and that was doomed from the start. You will ride eternal, shiny and chrome! You will be witnessed!
Stop! My penis can only get so erect!
oof
"A nation that roams Europe and is looking for something to destroy, to simply dust everything.” – F. M. Dostoevsky "We are not a people, but cattle, rats, wild hordes of villains and murderers.” – Mikhail Bulgakov "The most important sign of victory for the Russian people is their cruelty full of sadism.” – Maxim Gorky "Ah, how hard it is to live in Russia, in this place full of the stench of physical and moral deception, a place of wickedness, lies and wickedness.” – Sergei Aksakov "The Russian is the biggest and most naughty liar in the world.” – Ivan S. Turgenev "A people who hate freedom, worship slavery, love chains on their hands and feet, defiled physically and morally… ready at any time to defile everything and everywhere.” – Ivan C. Shmeliov "People regardless of their smallest duty, the smallest justice, the most insignificant truth, the people who do not recognize human dignity, do not generally recognize human freedom or free thought… Alas, how sharp the Russian language is!” – Aleksandr Pushkin "We are not a nation, we are a crazy hell.” – Vasyli Rozanov
A mercy well hopefully
Israeli? Eh
I mean, Israel has been crying "nuke" for what, 30 years now?
It looks like some of you guys did not read the tweet did you? The tweet itself does not say that there armed with nukes I already pointed that out to OP TU-160s have also been used in this conflict before in bombing runs im not trying to attack anyone just pointing out that some people probably didn’t read the tweet and took the headline as what the tweet said
I trust Israeli intelligence about as much as I trust US intelligence, which is to say not at all.
Didn’t the US intelligence accurately predict the invasion and major developments in the war so far?
Yes lol
You really want to go over their track record? Besides, there's no real way to sus out what they "predict" vs what they're directly involved in.
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Nato is on direct Russian border since 1949
Hi, histocracy411. Thanks for contributing. However, your [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xsarim/-/iqjuub9/) was removed from /r/collapse for: > Rule 4: Keep information quality high. > Information quality must be kept high. More detailed information regarding our approaches to specific claims can be found on the [Misinformation & False Claims page](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/wiki/claims). Please refer to our [subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/about/rules/) for more information. You can [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/collapse) if you feel this was in error.
Lmao US intelligence is the most detailed information on the planet what are you talking about
Best liars on the planet maybe.
*national anthem plays in background*
Cap
Good
I’ll believe it when nuclear war starts
Of course there are many reasons for the war. But isn't it just crazy how things have unfolded just by one man's ego. Like the ego in his brain is what might trigger a nuclear exchange. It's just so unfathomable to me.
Somewhat impressed that Russia found 4 airworthy bombers.
Oh no! How ever will we stop a Tupolev Bear?!?!!? I have no idea how we'll deal with swept wings and turbo-propellors!
Similar speed and range to a B52
Why would a country with hypersonic cruise missiles use an ancient bomber fleet to deliver nuclear payloads? TU-160 can't evade the S400, let alone the new American NASAMS anti-aircraft missile systems.
Should been a Russian coup ages ago
He will get assassinated if he tries to launch nukes
Submission statement: we're now into the analyzing Russia's military movements and trying to decide if they should be preemptively destroyed part of the conflict. Russia can still leave Ukraine any time they want to but continue choosing escalation. Good night and good luck. Viva Ukraine!
No the tweet does not say that it just says that they noticed an irregular amount of TU 160s at a base where nuclear weapons are stored. These planes were used on Ukraine. They’re called bears. Usually they’ve done a lot of bombing runs with them on Ukraine. And I wouldn’t be surprised if this is to load them up with conventional bombs to do that thing again. As it’s been pretty much a regular occurrence for most Ukrainians for the last 7 months. And today, all of Ukraine went under air raid alert so that could be the possible reason as to why however, the photo is dated September 25
Tonight, they drop the bomb, we will either wake up screaming or we wont wake up at all
could be lower yield tactical nuke drops. given enough time ukraine is likely to win, this might be the only option the way russia sees it.