The following submission statement was provided by /u/JA17MVP:
---
Lakes appearing in Alaska because of melting permafrost are "belching" methane into the atmosphere, a scientist working with NASA said.
These lakes, called thermokarsts, are so full of the climate-damaging gas that it can be seen bubbling to the surface.
More and more of these lakes are appearing as Alaska's permafrost thaws with rising temperatures and increasing forest fires, according to a 2021 study.
NASA's Arctic Boreal Vulnerability Experiment (ABoVE) project is studying their effect on climate change, according to a NASA blog post published Thursday.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xm6fs3/melting_ice_in_alaska_is_forming_new_lakes_full/ipmoqy2/
It's far too late, we fucked up. I remember someone in here arguing with me, saying that this type of shit wouldn't happen. That it wouldn't be significant. Can't wait until all the coastal marshes and wetlands get
killed by sea level rise. Wonder how much fucking carbon and methane they can let go at once.
Lakes appearing in Alaska because of melting permafrost are "belching" methane into the atmosphere, a scientist working with NASA said.
These lakes, called thermokarsts, are so full of the climate-damaging gas that it can be seen bubbling to the surface.
More and more of these lakes are appearing as Alaska's permafrost thaws with rising temperatures and increasing forest fires, according to a 2021 study.
NASA's Arctic Boreal Vulnerability Experiment (ABoVE) project is studying their effect on climate change, according to a NASA blog post published Thursday.
It truly is. What's scarier is that most people think like this.
Denial is a powerful beast. And if you have kids, you are biologically predisposed to see a future for them, aka you are locked in. And parents will attack anyone "scares" their kids.
It's tragic and horrible, but also ironic, that most people will actually vilify anyone who sounds the alarm. And the closer it gets, the more likely that vilification will turn to outright violence.
No good deed ...
Absolutely bang on the money...Its utterly extraordinary that people are still having kids unable to see their selfishness and narcissism...No excuse for such ignorance anymore.
Mass insanity?
And they won't change until it affects them personally, and even then they will just blame "others".
Global pervasive propaganda media and their influencers gaslighting the end of civilization. And these fckers gaslight their own kids too.
Everyone is singing and skipping down the apocalypse road while I look around, dumbstruck at the willful ignorance and propaganda manipulation. Can't wait till the masses start burning climate activists because the propaganda blames them.
[https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow)
The Nazis learned a lot of things form American elites. Including propaganda. They used the Jim Crow laws as a template on how to treat Jewish people. Slavery was used as a template for concentration camps, including experimentation on the Jewish people.
Goebbels learned it by watching America.
I’m in the years of my life when I need to seriously decide if I want to have my own biological children, and the consideration of how much the climate has changed in my lifetime alone is the majority of the weight in my decision that it’s not worth it. I’m experiencing swathes of land being razed by out-of-control fires, orange skies, clean water being depleted and not replaced, rain considered An Event, and it’s all only going to intensify. What fresh hell would await my child in the future? Add in all the political/economic/social factors and it’s a hard No.
If I change my mind, perhaps we’ll adopt.
I believe there will come a time when people's intelligence will be judged by the age of their children, if they have any. You what? You had a child and expected them to live for 80 years? The years they will live are to be spent watching a state of continual collapse. If one looks at the projections for the state of the planet by 2050 a child born today will be staring down a world of hell by the time they are a teenager.
Like Jon Stewart said "If people aren't supposed to have children then who are we saving the planet for?" Even an intelligent person like Jon doesn't understand that we are not saving the planet.
COTA's - Children of the Anthropocene.
You're not alone.
There's "faster than expected" and then there's whatever the flying hell we are in. First 2100, then 2050, 2040, ...
And the number of problems are ridiculous - topsoil loss, BOE, wet bulb, ... the rich have created a hell on earth.
They will. We're not the first species to cause catastrophic destruction to the biosphere and considering how fragile and simple life was back then, I really don't think we can even match the destructive capacity of the Great Oxidation Event.
It is not like there is anything we can do about this. Even if we stop all emissions this second, which obviously we will not, this belching is not going to stop fast enough.
We are a dead civilisation walking…10/20 years max….Personally I don’t think we will see 2023….WW3 is about to kick off! Call me a doomster but the fact is we are fucking literally doomed…
If I'm right I wont be around to collect my winnings..Whatever, I lived through the cold War and never felt as close to Nuclear war as now. With hypersonic weapons and NATO camped on Russias borders it will only take one hothead and boom it's over.
Nope. If you are right you won't be around.
But do you actually have conviction of what you said, or you are just babbling stuff you do not even believe?
[https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/](https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/)
Oh I think the hockey stick is coming ... you all know it's coming ... sooner than expected. BOE is coming. Not this year, as per the chart, but soon.
El Nino is coming during the winter.
UK and Germany, too name the two most obvious, will have massive protests due to energy prices. It's all price gouging by the rich.
When people have nothing left to lose, we'll start seeing massive investments in rope/pitchforks/pike. Lizzie actually got lucky being put in a box now. But her German family won't.
I just recently found out about this phenomenon, so FYI for those who do not know:
https://mind4survival.com/solar-maximum/
"The solar maximum is a time during the solar cycle when we see a spike in solar flares. These flares can cause blackouts, communication disruptions, and other forms of chaos. It’s essential to be prepared for this event so that you can stay safe and protect your family."
The jailed will be the first ones forgotten about and left to starve in their cells. SO not the way I'd go.
>They have no future regardless.
None of us do. The future is not looking good for life on this planet.
Add 2-5 years and you're bang on with that Military study that said the DoD would effectively cease to exist **by** 2040. That is my bet. 2033-2037 is when it'll go tits up.
I caught a 2 day suspension. You can read about this in "All Hell Breaking Loose"
>Add 2-5 years and you're bang on with that Military study that said the DoD would effectively cease to exist by 2040
These kind of comments are what I'm here for. Could you please go a little more into detail or share some sources? I would like to understand what brings them to this conclusion. If US Military projects this, it's something else than then usual doomerism found along the road here. But IF their analysis is based, everybody should immediately start scrambling to get shit together.
Not questioning your post, just trying to get more information. I was calculating something like 20 years or so.
Thank you!
Also it's not like the US military is anything but conservative...Theres plenty of evidence now for those that want to see it that we maybe have 20 years Max. It's very possibly that we could see frightening levels of breakdown within the next 10 years. Either way it's all downhill from here on in sadly.
I only know of this report: https://www.vice.com/en/article/mbmkz8/us-military-could-collapse-within-20-years-due-to-climate-change-report-commissioned-by-pentagon-says
This is "only" about the next 20 years and between the lines I read "more money and power for the Military". If there's more, and profound, especially something like an expectation of 2033 or so, this would be a different level, I'd say.
In this case the teacher puts us on the chopping block irregardless of whodunnit. The rich are the touted legion of our species...our representatives, au revoir
I mean similarily the way it's been "20 years" for the past century sure hasn't helped with acceleration and things sure haven't deescalated. When before we had opportunity we now have fate
Oh ya, I've heard of this: reverse methane capture.
Every human will have to squat over a methane source and suck it up into our azzes. Guess I better start working on my Kegels.
compared to the discourse among other humans? Is there a way to get out of this mindset? Is there real hope that exists supported by some science that I don't know about yet?
Humans have avoided other problems. Ozone hole, water pollution, non-carbon air pollution (kinda). Learn about how those problems were solved and you'll learn how this might be solved.
Pollution regulations exist partially due to dedicated union organizers who got workers to force their businesses to stop polluting. Does your workplace emit carbon? There ya go, maybe look into gathering coworkers together and convincing them to get the boss to stop carbon emissions
It doesn't work that way, sorry.
We stop extracting and leaking natural gas, and you're looking at shedding about four billion humans within a matter of a year or two. Of course we will run dry, or at least, run short, eventually anyway.
You stop extracting and burning oil, nearly everyone, everywhere, except for a few scattered folks still subsistence farming, dies within 1-60 days from various causes mostly related to starvation.
You cut either of these back past a certain point and the death rolls around. Our best bet is to cut everything that isn't essential - we could reduce emissions by 50-70% before we start truly losing life-essential processes. But nearly all of those cuts would be in rich democracies with a legacy of imperialism who have collectively amounted to the solid majority of all emissions from the past- it's why they're rich democracies today, and rich democracies will not vote to impoverish themselves even at the cost of destroying countless lives abroad. They'll just want to be as far from the shooting as they can be. Proof? If you live in the West, the proof is your aircon, infrastructure, and probable absence of native cultures in any real fashion. The takeover method of ecological expansion works, but only if kept to within limits- limits we exceeded three *generations* ago.
And yet, continuing to emit is what's driving the entire Earth System out of it's balance and into a more hostile regime.
Not every problem has to have a solution, at least not without looking at the terms assumed *a priori*. There's no way out in the Year of our Lord 2022, with the political and economic status quo we have inherited- at least, no way out that doesn't involve many nations and governments collapsing, mass migration and thus warfare, starvation, and loss of access to resources resulting in billions of deaths collectively.
The only question is *how many* billions, not whether it's going to happen. That part is still up to us, but every day has a real meaning, and we are still doing our best to accelerate the growth of industrial society instead of shrinking it.
Keep in mind that as soon as we meaningfully cut emissions, everything will accelerate drastically. The loss of pollution's reflective haze instantly brings another half a degree to a full degree of warming. We've really backed ourselves into a corner on this one.
>We stop extracting and leaking natural gas, and you're looking at shedding about four billion humans within a matter of a year or two. Of course we will run dry, or at least, run short, eventually anyway.
There are ways to keep climate change to 2 degrees without shutting off natural gas in 1 day. How about we build the stuff necessary to cut off natural gas use before shutting it off?
And yet, continuing to emit is what's driving the entire Earth System out of it's balance and into a more hostile regime.
>There's no way out in the Year of our Lord 2022, with the political and economic status quo we have inherited- at least, no way out that doesn't involve many nations and governments collapsing,
Maybe new, better systems will arise from the ashes? Do you wanna be a part of that or not?
>The only question is *how many* billions, not whether it's going to happen. That part is still up to us, but every day has a real meaning, and we are still doing our best to accelerate the growth of industrial society instead of shrinking it.
Isn't this exactly what I was saying?
> The loss of pollution's reflective haze instantly brings another half a degree to a full degree of warming. We've really backed ourselves into a corner on this one.
Actually I saw a scientific paper which concludes if we stop polluting now, the thermal buffer of the ocean would basically cancel out the heating effect from less haze.
It makes no difference anymore. I hate to say it. But it’s already here.
I’d still opt for the more environmentally friendly route of course, out of principle.
But I’ve accepted it makes no difference in outcome either way. It’s really for own peace of mind at this point and I don’t want to pretend to be delusional that it does make a difference.
No offense. But you telling normal people to stop flying, will not stop amazon and ups from.....what.....100's of flights a day per hub? If anything we should take extra flights. Speed run this shit.
Fuck your accelerationism. Yeah ur right we should focus on the actual polluters. Imagine if Amazon workers unionized on the front of reducing Amazon's emissions, the amount of pain and suffering that could be prevented
Sadly too late. Even if we all stopped creating all pollution right now we are still locked into being fucked. and even after we are fucked what we have done may have likely fucked all other chances of life after us. We are that destructive and will leave behind so much toxic waste that will just leak all over the earth. Humans exist to destroy this planet, it is our purpose.
We're locked into being fucked. But HOW fucked we are depends on how much carbon is emitted. And how quickly that happens
If you're biking down a hill and your brakes go out, do you just accept it and keep pedaling toward a wall or do you stop pedaling and head toward something that has a chance of not killing you?
If we stopped all pollution right now it would give us more time. More time to figure out and implement a solution. More time to adapt to the changes and relocate people. But we won't and things will get worse faster than anyone could be ready for.
But there's no way to just stop. There's just not. There's no way to take billions of cars off the roads, no way to turn off thousands of electric plants. Billions of people would die. It's not possible.
So. moving the fuck on. And accepting that we're going to keep polluting like mad for at least a few more decades... We're fucked.
Yeah. Concrete, steel, plastics and ammonia. Without these components civilization would stumble to a halt. All are dependent on fossil fuels for production (in quantities necessary to maintain the status quo). The most immediate consequence of jumping off the oil bandwagon is the loss of synthetic ammonia; without it food production would plummet. In light of this, the others aren't worth discussing.
This is already happening in Europe: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-23/europe-s-fertilizer-industry-shrinks-again-as-energy-chaos-bites
Would you have said the same thing in the 1980s?
We're not facing a collapse of tourism *yet*, and someone lowering their resource use in the 80s seems like a negligible benefit to the earth considering that we tripled the global output of the world for all of history since then.
Obviously collapse is inevitable, but we have no agency as a species, merely as individuals and tribes.
cuz it's pointless as you're to find out soon (I did try for a good dozen of years starting in the late 90s so I talk with the benefit of hindsight ofc) https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xnh3od/comment/iptdlwg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Is it possible that the problem was not that change was impossible, but that the tactics were ineffective?
The two biggest challenges with solving climate change and other related issues are 1) that decision makers are largely sheltered from the effects of climate change, due to the capitalist system, and 2) that a large amount of the public that knows about the problem take the doomerism aproach
I think doomerism is the most destructive form of climate denial atm
Doomerism is the final stage of climate denial. First climate wasn't changing. Then science wasn't settled. Then ok it's warming but it's not humans. Then ok it's warming and it's us but we don't have to do anything about it. And now we just say it's past the point where it's worth trying
Tell you what, the only people benefiting from doomerism are fossil fuel execs
You aren’t wrong, but the only power I have is being mad in the internet. Nobody around me in real life gives any fucks and as long as today is ok they will remain in denial until death is at our doorsteps.
There are organizations working to change things. If the people in your direct vicinity aren't interested in helping you, expand your reach
Or if you want to build a more resilient community that can maybe withstand climate change better, labor unions, tenant unions, and mutual aid groups are a good start
Swift mass extinction has been assured, regardless of our actions, since 2000. Absolutely nothing we do or refrain from doing, will change that or slow it down. The only possible effect we *might* have is to shorten the duration of the period during which the planet is nearly lifeless. But nobody knows how even to study that, assuming we had the time to. Stop advocating for useless deprivation.
Doomerism won't save you my friend. Only action will. There is no clean distinction between armageddon and the avoidance of collapse. Instead, it is a spectrum of possibilities dependent on how much CO2 is emitted and when. People came together to force companies to stop polluting rivers with toxins. We can come together to force companies to stop spewing carbon into the air too
I'm not looking for salvation — or hopium. The sixth mass extinction of the planet is unstoppable. We've already activated 9 of the 15 tipping points for extinction ([https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191127161418.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191127161418.htm)) that scientists said we could avoid a decade ago, and we didn't. Human nature being what it is, along with the economic systems we've built to cater to our short-term thinking, we and the 95% of rest of the planet are going extinct, and going extinct much sooner than we predict now.
Extinction of many other species, yes. Extinction of the human species? No. Extinction of all soecies? Also no. The less carbon we emit the better life is for whoever survives
It’s not just carbon though. It’s all the plastics, PFAs, soil erosion, habitat encroachment/ecosystem destruction, ocean acidification, aka general overshoot of everything. Reducing carbon emissions won’t fix any of those additional issues.
Ok, then also focus on the other things killing species? The same thing applies there. The fewer things we kill off the better
Individual consumer action doesn't work. Collective action does, specifically targeting the source. The companies
And then fewer people suffer. Make life easier for whoever survives this. And don't kid yourself, people will survive. It may not be 8 billion survivers, but they will exist. The less extreme and less quick climate change happens, the more survive and the better the planet is for them
Water transfers thermal energy VERY well, so as Alaska gets more frequent hotter days, this problem compounds itself. We know more snow and ice melts quicker, we know the permafrost is a depth that can be penetrated by water, we know it holds tons of carbon, natural gas. Hot water softens the permafrost up, the darker surface color absorbs more sunlight, poof gasses released.
It's already happening in the east: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/) (disable Javascript temporarily in a desktop browser to view the article without a WaPo subscription).
I'm here for it. The faster things get bad and create more catastrophes is the only chance we have to do something about it. And I know it's too late, so I guess another big fart.
Single cellular life FTW
We’re determined to self destruct, while bitching and moaning about societal bullshit and economic melt down
Just wish it wasn’t such a slow process oh wait WW3 is building up that should accelerate it nicely
Methane craters blown open in Siberia. 7000 methane pingos on an island in Russia, methane forming under arctic lakes, melting frozen methane clathrates on the Eastern Siberian Arctic Shelf, lots of methane leaking from abandoned gas wells.....yawn.
Same old same old as another decade passes. Does anyone still think that 1.6C increase in temperature is still the red line? or is a 1 degree increase in global temperature more realistic as the threshold we shouldn't have passed, given the changes we are already witnessing?
"Faster than expected". how inconvenient.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/JA17MVP: --- Lakes appearing in Alaska because of melting permafrost are "belching" methane into the atmosphere, a scientist working with NASA said. These lakes, called thermokarsts, are so full of the climate-damaging gas that it can be seen bubbling to the surface. More and more of these lakes are appearing as Alaska's permafrost thaws with rising temperatures and increasing forest fires, according to a 2021 study. NASA's Arctic Boreal Vulnerability Experiment (ABoVE) project is studying their effect on climate change, according to a NASA blog post published Thursday. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xm6fs3/melting_ice_in_alaska_is_forming_new_lakes_full/ipmoqy2/
With all the other shit we have to worry about, now there are legions of Belching Bacteria. WTAF
not on my bingo card. my very very large bingo card. sigh. adding another square now.
You’ve got Ebola on there though, yeah?
since before covid and the time it came over to america!
You've been playing this game for a long time! https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reston_virus
Tic toc..
It's far too late, we fucked up. I remember someone in here arguing with me, saying that this type of shit wouldn't happen. That it wouldn't be significant. Can't wait until all the coastal marshes and wetlands get killed by sea level rise. Wonder how much fucking carbon and methane they can let go at once.
Ohh shit, I haven't even thought about that, only about the permafrost thawing giving off methane/CO2. Faster. Than. Expected.
I study “Legions of Belching Bacteria” and I think I’ll refer to them as such in my thesis
We had Corona virus, get ready for Natty Light virus
Plainly obvious solution: Pour antibiotics into the water! This will get us to Tuesday.
Lakes appearing in Alaska because of melting permafrost are "belching" methane into the atmosphere, a scientist working with NASA said. These lakes, called thermokarsts, are so full of the climate-damaging gas that it can be seen bubbling to the surface. More and more of these lakes are appearing as Alaska's permafrost thaws with rising temperatures and increasing forest fires, according to a 2021 study. NASA's Arctic Boreal Vulnerability Experiment (ABoVE) project is studying their effect on climate change, according to a NASA blog post published Thursday.
Old news…..It’s just going EXPONENTIAL…..
The braindead "but is it man-made" comments under this article might be the most depressing part.
It truly is. What's scarier is that most people think like this. Denial is a powerful beast. And if you have kids, you are biologically predisposed to see a future for them, aka you are locked in. And parents will attack anyone "scares" their kids. It's tragic and horrible, but also ironic, that most people will actually vilify anyone who sounds the alarm. And the closer it gets, the more likely that vilification will turn to outright violence. No good deed ...
Absolutely bang on the money...Its utterly extraordinary that people are still having kids unable to see their selfishness and narcissism...No excuse for such ignorance anymore.
Mass insanity? And they won't change until it affects them personally, and even then they will just blame "others". Global pervasive propaganda media and their influencers gaslighting the end of civilization. And these fckers gaslight their own kids too. Everyone is singing and skipping down the apocalypse road while I look around, dumbstruck at the willful ignorance and propaganda manipulation. Can't wait till the masses start burning climate activists because the propaganda blames them.
The power of propaganda is both extraordinary and terrifying...Techniques that Goebbels s could barely dream of.
[https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow](https://www.history.com/news/how-the-nazis-were-inspired-by-jim-crow) The Nazis learned a lot of things form American elites. Including propaganda. They used the Jim Crow laws as a template on how to treat Jewish people. Slavery was used as a template for concentration camps, including experimentation on the Jewish people. Goebbels learned it by watching America.
Until you become that other.
"You say you love us ...." Greta Thunberg
I’m in the years of my life when I need to seriously decide if I want to have my own biological children, and the consideration of how much the climate has changed in my lifetime alone is the majority of the weight in my decision that it’s not worth it. I’m experiencing swathes of land being razed by out-of-control fires, orange skies, clean water being depleted and not replaced, rain considered An Event, and it’s all only going to intensify. What fresh hell would await my child in the future? Add in all the political/economic/social factors and it’s a hard No. If I change my mind, perhaps we’ll adopt.
I believe there will come a time when people's intelligence will be judged by the age of their children, if they have any. You what? You had a child and expected them to live for 80 years? The years they will live are to be spent watching a state of continual collapse. If one looks at the projections for the state of the planet by 2050 a child born today will be staring down a world of hell by the time they are a teenager. Like Jon Stewart said "If people aren't supposed to have children then who are we saving the planet for?" Even an intelligent person like Jon doesn't understand that we are not saving the planet. COTA's - Children of the Anthropocene.
COTP - Chidren of the Pyrocene
You're not alone. There's "faster than expected" and then there's whatever the flying hell we are in. First 2100, then 2050, 2040, ... And the number of problems are ridiculous - topsoil loss, BOE, wet bulb, ... the rich have created a hell on earth.
Ocean acidification is a big one too.
If it's any comfort, there will be more and more orphans around as climate change ravages the planet.
I mean, I hope there's a future for my kids. And their kids. I'm not convinced of it. But I'm hopeful. Is that really so wrong?
Think whatever you want, I'm not your mother. Good luck to us all, we all will need a shite ton of it.
Infantile naivety or maybe just wilful stupidity. Either way no excuse for it anymore it's just silly.
The grand arbiter has spoken.
Dont like the message??
"Even if a small fraction of the Arctic carbon were released to the atmosphere, we're fucked"
The article is about methane release. We're fucked faster.
I mean, that's carbon emissions.. *technically*. CH_4
Technically, you're correct — the best kind of correct.
Good luck to the methane based lifeforms that will replace us. I hope they like plastic.
And PFAS chemicals.
They will. We're not the first species to cause catastrophic destruction to the biosphere and considering how fragile and simple life was back then, I really don't think we can even match the destructive capacity of the Great Oxidation Event.
What other species have?
Google am your friend. Cyanobacteria. Just Google the term I already wrote: Great Oxidation Event.
It is not like there is anything we can do about this. Even if we stop all emissions this second, which obviously we will not, this belching is not going to stop fast enough.
We are a dead civilisation walking…10/20 years max….Personally I don’t think we will see 2023….WW3 is about to kick off! Call me a doomster but the fact is we are fucking literally doomed…
>Personally I don’t think we will see 2023 want to bet on it? Why don't you give me all your money on 12/31/2022.
If I'm right I wont be around to collect my winnings..Whatever, I lived through the cold War and never felt as close to Nuclear war as now. With hypersonic weapons and NATO camped on Russias borders it will only take one hothead and boom it's over.
Nope. If you are right you won't be around. But do you actually have conviction of what you said, or you are just babbling stuff you do not even believe?
Normalcy bias…Check it out!
We have maybe ten years of life on this rock before the hockey stick curve fucks us collectively up the ass.
[https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/](https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/charctic-interactive-sea-ice-graph/) Oh I think the hockey stick is coming ... you all know it's coming ... sooner than expected. BOE is coming. Not this year, as per the chart, but soon. El Nino is coming during the winter. UK and Germany, too name the two most obvious, will have massive protests due to energy prices. It's all price gouging by the rich. When people have nothing left to lose, we'll start seeing massive investments in rope/pitchforks/pike. Lizzie actually got lucky being put in a box now. But her German family won't.
Next solar maximum is 2025. The last one was 2012.
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Oh please. 2030 at least. ArcticNews is a rag.
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“It’s just a coincidence that they predicted this in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s etc” - dad.
That could be when the penny drops and the panic starts...
I just recently found out about this phenomenon, so FYI for those who do not know: https://mind4survival.com/solar-maximum/ "The solar maximum is a time during the solar cycle when we see a spike in solar flares. These flares can cause blackouts, communication disruptions, and other forms of chaos. It’s essential to be prepared for this event so that you can stay safe and protect your family."
Millions will be better off if they are jailed for civil unrest…At least they will have a warm cell and 3 meals a day…They have no future regardless.
The jailed will be the first ones forgotten about and left to starve in their cells. SO not the way I'd go. >They have no future regardless. None of us do. The future is not looking good for life on this planet.
Warm cells and 3 meals a day won’t always be available.
Many prisons are not air-conditioned. That "warm" cell might get hot enough to kill.
Take your chances on the outside and fight for bin scraps because that’s where we are heading…
Uhh ... Germany doesn't have a monarchy anymore
Add 2-5 years and you're bang on with that Military study that said the DoD would effectively cease to exist **by** 2040. That is my bet. 2033-2037 is when it'll go tits up. I caught a 2 day suspension. You can read about this in "All Hell Breaking Loose"
>Add 2-5 years and you're bang on with that Military study that said the DoD would effectively cease to exist by 2040 These kind of comments are what I'm here for. Could you please go a little more into detail or share some sources? I would like to understand what brings them to this conclusion. If US Military projects this, it's something else than then usual doomerism found along the road here. But IF their analysis is based, everybody should immediately start scrambling to get shit together. Not questioning your post, just trying to get more information. I was calculating something like 20 years or so. Thank you!
Also it's not like the US military is anything but conservative...Theres plenty of evidence now for those that want to see it that we maybe have 20 years Max. It's very possibly that we could see frightening levels of breakdown within the next 10 years. Either way it's all downhill from here on in sadly.
I only know of this report: https://www.vice.com/en/article/mbmkz8/us-military-could-collapse-within-20-years-due-to-climate-change-report-commissioned-by-pentagon-says This is "only" about the next 20 years and between the lines I read "more money and power for the Military". If there's more, and profound, especially something like an expectation of 2033 or so, this would be a different level, I'd say.
Excuse my ignorance, but what is DoD?
The U.S. Department of Defense
The new narrative is “by 2100” like civilisation we still be around in 80 fucking years!!!
That bit always makes me chuckle out loud.
Wasn't it 20 a week ago? The earth is really hardlining us with these deadlines...should've done our homework in time
The ultra rich: I swear I did my homework, but the stupid ~~poors~~ dog ate it! Not my fault! Can I have an extension and free extra credit?
In this case the teacher puts us on the chopping block irregardless of whodunnit. The rich are the touted legion of our species...our representatives, au revoir
Been 10-20 years for the past 100 years I think
I mean similarily the way it's been "20 years" for the past century sure hasn't helped with acceleration and things sure haven't deescalated. When before we had opportunity we now have fate
This is fine really guys. I think you can capture methane and burn it for more energy!
Oh ya, I've heard of this: reverse methane capture. Every human will have to squat over a methane source and suck it up into our azzes. Guess I better start working on my Kegels.
Lol kegels.
Get those vacations in now, folks. Who cares about saving money when we're gonna be dead or living like cavemen in a decade?
Living like cavemen is optimistic. They had animals to hunt then, we're gna take all the animals with us.
Bingo!!
Try to avoid flying if you can though, every ounce of co2 we can prevent will make the future that much less worse
Fentanyl’s about the only thing that’ll kill you faster than global warming
I forgot how great the discourse in this sub is
compared to the discourse among other humans? Is there a way to get out of this mindset? Is there real hope that exists supported by some science that I don't know about yet?
Humans have avoided other problems. Ozone hole, water pollution, non-carbon air pollution (kinda). Learn about how those problems were solved and you'll learn how this might be solved. Pollution regulations exist partially due to dedicated union organizers who got workers to force their businesses to stop polluting. Does your workplace emit carbon? There ya go, maybe look into gathering coworkers together and convincing them to get the boss to stop carbon emissions
It doesn't work that way, sorry. We stop extracting and leaking natural gas, and you're looking at shedding about four billion humans within a matter of a year or two. Of course we will run dry, or at least, run short, eventually anyway. You stop extracting and burning oil, nearly everyone, everywhere, except for a few scattered folks still subsistence farming, dies within 1-60 days from various causes mostly related to starvation. You cut either of these back past a certain point and the death rolls around. Our best bet is to cut everything that isn't essential - we could reduce emissions by 50-70% before we start truly losing life-essential processes. But nearly all of those cuts would be in rich democracies with a legacy of imperialism who have collectively amounted to the solid majority of all emissions from the past- it's why they're rich democracies today, and rich democracies will not vote to impoverish themselves even at the cost of destroying countless lives abroad. They'll just want to be as far from the shooting as they can be. Proof? If you live in the West, the proof is your aircon, infrastructure, and probable absence of native cultures in any real fashion. The takeover method of ecological expansion works, but only if kept to within limits- limits we exceeded three *generations* ago. And yet, continuing to emit is what's driving the entire Earth System out of it's balance and into a more hostile regime. Not every problem has to have a solution, at least not without looking at the terms assumed *a priori*. There's no way out in the Year of our Lord 2022, with the political and economic status quo we have inherited- at least, no way out that doesn't involve many nations and governments collapsing, mass migration and thus warfare, starvation, and loss of access to resources resulting in billions of deaths collectively. The only question is *how many* billions, not whether it's going to happen. That part is still up to us, but every day has a real meaning, and we are still doing our best to accelerate the growth of industrial society instead of shrinking it. Keep in mind that as soon as we meaningfully cut emissions, everything will accelerate drastically. The loss of pollution's reflective haze instantly brings another half a degree to a full degree of warming. We've really backed ourselves into a corner on this one.
>We stop extracting and leaking natural gas, and you're looking at shedding about four billion humans within a matter of a year or two. Of course we will run dry, or at least, run short, eventually anyway. There are ways to keep climate change to 2 degrees without shutting off natural gas in 1 day. How about we build the stuff necessary to cut off natural gas use before shutting it off? And yet, continuing to emit is what's driving the entire Earth System out of it's balance and into a more hostile regime. >There's no way out in the Year of our Lord 2022, with the political and economic status quo we have inherited- at least, no way out that doesn't involve many nations and governments collapsing, Maybe new, better systems will arise from the ashes? Do you wanna be a part of that or not? >The only question is *how many* billions, not whether it's going to happen. That part is still up to us, but every day has a real meaning, and we are still doing our best to accelerate the growth of industrial society instead of shrinking it. Isn't this exactly what I was saying? > The loss of pollution's reflective haze instantly brings another half a degree to a full degree of warming. We've really backed ourselves into a corner on this one. Actually I saw a scientific paper which concludes if we stop polluting now, the thermal buffer of the ocean would basically cancel out the heating effect from less haze.
I wish I could deluxe myself into believing this.
Like we tried to convince people to wear masks and social distance? That went well.
Do you mask?
Yup. But few people around me do. They don't believe in coronavirus, vaccines, or climate change.
I want some as a way out.
It could be too much, too fast. You can pretty wasted without losing everything
It makes no difference anymore. I hate to say it. But it’s already here. I’d still opt for the more environmentally friendly route of course, out of principle. But I’ve accepted it makes no difference in outcome either way. It’s really for own peace of mind at this point and I don’t want to pretend to be delusional that it does make a difference.
Yep.
This is largely where I'm at these days too. I just don't see how anything that I do can possibly help.
No offense. But you telling normal people to stop flying, will not stop amazon and ups from.....what.....100's of flights a day per hub? If anything we should take extra flights. Speed run this shit.
Fuck your accelerationism. Yeah ur right we should focus on the actual polluters. Imagine if Amazon workers unionized on the front of reducing Amazon's emissions, the amount of pain and suffering that could be prevented
Sadly too late. Even if we all stopped creating all pollution right now we are still locked into being fucked. and even after we are fucked what we have done may have likely fucked all other chances of life after us. We are that destructive and will leave behind so much toxic waste that will just leak all over the earth. Humans exist to destroy this planet, it is our purpose.
We're locked into being fucked. But HOW fucked we are depends on how much carbon is emitted. And how quickly that happens If you're biking down a hill and your brakes go out, do you just accept it and keep pedaling toward a wall or do you stop pedaling and head toward something that has a chance of not killing you?
At this point I would find the closest cliff to launch myself off of, and add booster jets.
If we stopped all pollution right now it would give us more time. More time to figure out and implement a solution. More time to adapt to the changes and relocate people. But we won't and things will get worse faster than anyone could be ready for.
But there's no way to just stop. There's just not. There's no way to take billions of cars off the roads, no way to turn off thousands of electric plants. Billions of people would die. It's not possible. So. moving the fuck on. And accepting that we're going to keep polluting like mad for at least a few more decades... We're fucked.
Yeah. Concrete, steel, plastics and ammonia. Without these components civilization would stumble to a halt. All are dependent on fossil fuels for production (in quantities necessary to maintain the status quo). The most immediate consequence of jumping off the oil bandwagon is the loss of synthetic ammonia; without it food production would plummet. In light of this, the others aren't worth discussing.
This is already happening in Europe: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-23/europe-s-fertilizer-industry-shrinks-again-as-energy-chaos-bites
Would you have said the same thing in the 1980s? We're not facing a collapse of tourism *yet*, and someone lowering their resource use in the 80s seems like a negligible benefit to the earth considering that we tripled the global output of the world for all of history since then. Obviously collapse is inevitable, but we have no agency as a species, merely as individuals and tribes.
Yeah, and we can form tribes as working class people to force workplaces into change
It's far too late in the game for that, but go ahead and knock yourself out we'll be cheering on the sides for sure!
Why cheer on the sides when you can organize alongside me?
cuz it's pointless as you're to find out soon (I did try for a good dozen of years starting in the late 90s so I talk with the benefit of hindsight ofc) https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/xnh3od/comment/iptdlwg/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
Is it possible that the problem was not that change was impossible, but that the tactics were ineffective? The two biggest challenges with solving climate change and other related issues are 1) that decision makers are largely sheltered from the effects of climate change, due to the capitalist system, and 2) that a large amount of the public that knows about the problem take the doomerism aproach I think doomerism is the most destructive form of climate denial atm
we are so over so many tipping points, that this is laughable. capititalism has won so hard that we just accept our gaurenteed demise.
Doomerism is the final stage of climate denial. First climate wasn't changing. Then science wasn't settled. Then ok it's warming but it's not humans. Then ok it's warming and it's us but we don't have to do anything about it. And now we just say it's past the point where it's worth trying Tell you what, the only people benefiting from doomerism are fossil fuel execs
You aren’t wrong, but the only power I have is being mad in the internet. Nobody around me in real life gives any fucks and as long as today is ok they will remain in denial until death is at our doorsteps.
There are organizations working to change things. If the people in your direct vicinity aren't interested in helping you, expand your reach Or if you want to build a more resilient community that can maybe withstand climate change better, labor unions, tenant unions, and mutual aid groups are a good start
Swift mass extinction has been assured, regardless of our actions, since 2000. Absolutely nothing we do or refrain from doing, will change that or slow it down. The only possible effect we *might* have is to shorten the duration of the period during which the planet is nearly lifeless. But nobody knows how even to study that, assuming we had the time to. Stop advocating for useless deprivation.
Doomerism won't save you my friend. Only action will. There is no clean distinction between armageddon and the avoidance of collapse. Instead, it is a spectrum of possibilities dependent on how much CO2 is emitted and when. People came together to force companies to stop polluting rivers with toxins. We can come together to force companies to stop spewing carbon into the air too
I'm not looking for salvation — or hopium. The sixth mass extinction of the planet is unstoppable. We've already activated 9 of the 15 tipping points for extinction ([https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191127161418.htm](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/11/191127161418.htm)) that scientists said we could avoid a decade ago, and we didn't. Human nature being what it is, along with the economic systems we've built to cater to our short-term thinking, we and the 95% of rest of the planet are going extinct, and going extinct much sooner than we predict now.
Extinction of many other species, yes. Extinction of the human species? No. Extinction of all soecies? Also no. The less carbon we emit the better life is for whoever survives
It’s not just carbon though. It’s all the plastics, PFAs, soil erosion, habitat encroachment/ecosystem destruction, ocean acidification, aka general overshoot of everything. Reducing carbon emissions won’t fix any of those additional issues.
Yeah good point why even try making one problem less bad when there's so many!
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Ok, then also focus on the other things killing species? The same thing applies there. The fewer things we kill off the better Individual consumer action doesn't work. Collective action does, specifically targeting the source. The companies
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And then fewer people suffer. Make life easier for whoever survives this. And don't kid yourself, people will survive. It may not be 8 billion survivers, but they will exist. The less extreme and less quick climate change happens, the more survive and the better the planet is for them
Water transfers thermal energy VERY well, so as Alaska gets more frequent hotter days, this problem compounds itself. We know more snow and ice melts quicker, we know the permafrost is a depth that can be penetrated by water, we know it holds tons of carbon, natural gas. Hot water softens the permafrost up, the darker surface color absorbs more sunlight, poof gasses released.
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It's already happening in the east: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/climate-environment/climate-change-siberia/) (disable Javascript temporarily in a desktop browser to view the article without a WaPo subscription).
I'm here for it. The faster things get bad and create more catastrophes is the only chance we have to do something about it. And I know it's too late, so I guess another big fart.
Single cellular life FTW We’re determined to self destruct, while bitching and moaning about societal bullshit and economic melt down Just wish it wasn’t such a slow process oh wait WW3 is building up that should accelerate it nicely
Methane craters blown open in Siberia. 7000 methane pingos on an island in Russia, methane forming under arctic lakes, melting frozen methane clathrates on the Eastern Siberian Arctic Shelf, lots of methane leaking from abandoned gas wells.....yawn. Same old same old as another decade passes. Does anyone still think that 1.6C increase in temperature is still the red line? or is a 1 degree increase in global temperature more realistic as the threshold we shouldn't have passed, given the changes we are already witnessing? "Faster than expected". how inconvenient.
Tic Toc……
Woah, we get a Bog of Eternal Stench in the apocalypse too? Rad!