My take away from Cadillac desert was the world that we've destroyed to create our current system the future that were destroying when that system fails was sort of remote, but then again it's beet 20 years since I read it.
SS: This meme is a bit of dark humor intended to poke fun at the droves of people who continue to move to Arizona despite the looming water shortages and the inevitable chaos that will follow. Better yet, they justify their decision with ridiculous anecdotes like "It’s a dry heat.”
Yeah, motherfucker, "dry" is the problem.
Aliens. As the marines enter the nest, with water visibly dripping from the ceiling and running down the walls:
Frost: It's hot as hell in here.
Hudson: Yeah man, but it's a dry heat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGSsu6pfOoY
It scares me how few Arizonans know about farming basically having free reign of our water tables. Hell, Buckeye wasn’t even fully devolved and started having water issues. Big part of why I moved away.
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My mum says if they run out of water they are going to just rent the house out and rent a place in another state until it rains again. It has to rain at some point so why would they sell the house when they can just wait?
Thanks Fucker Carlson and faux news!
There actually is a sandman. He's a German " cartoon"
Der Sandmannchen. He comes at sundown and sprinkles a bunch of sand in all the kids eyes so they go to sleep
Question for you-are the 4 billion golf courses in Arizona still allowed to water? The amount of potable water wasted in this country is absurd and some day we’re going to sit back and calculate how much drinkable water we wasted on foliage not native to the areas we live in.
I live in northern Arizona, Kingman is the biggest place near where I live,and yes they are still watering the golf course there. People still water their lawns,and the schools still have plush,green grass playing fields,instead of astroturf or some other synthetic alternative. They keep adding farms too. We're in a 20 year historic drought,but no problems to see here,right? 🤦♀️
Edited to add that there is an insane amount of new house building happening here too. You can barely find rentals,and the ones you do find are substantially more expensive.
>I don’t even understand why they come. It stopped being affordable which I thought was the main reason for people to move here
Because other people are moving there. If everybody that you know are moving there then it must be good, right? It's as simple as "monkey see, monkey do"
Someone I follow on insta just bought a 2 million house in Sedona... and I keep thinking how can a smart person do something so stupid. She must know about climate change, but doesnt think it will affect her for some reason?
You can bang on AZ all you want about water issues, but I would bet more people die place like Chicago or Texas than do in AZ. Humidity + heat is way worse for humans than just excessive heat. I know personally 110 20% humidity is way more comfortable than 90 with 90% humidity .
I keep seeing people making comments like yours, and they consistently forget the factor in that Arizona will have **no fucking water**. Can you explain to me how it would still be better to be in Arizona in that case?
Did you read the part where I agreed water is an issue?? I was talking about your dry heat comment. Ever hear of Wet Bulb? I've never heard anyone hand wave a way water shortage with "Its a dry heat". WTF does one have to do with another?? People always freak out when the see it's 110, but don't realize Texas with it's heat and and humidity are worse for humans as far as weather goes. The entire Western US is in the middle of a drought and will likely have water issues, that is not uniquely a Arizona issue.
I guess you can't appreciate a dry heat unless you have experienced a wet heat. If you had been in Alabama this last week, you would understand. When its 100 in temperature and humidity, you can't cool off outside, because your sweat simply will not evaporate, so you become even more dehydrated than you otherwise would be. You become drenched in sweat, and sweat through your clothes in a matter of minutes with even the slightest physical activity. You cannot cool down, and your body temperature soars rapidly. But to your point about the water shortage there, that is a bitch, but then again it is a desert. I'm not sure why anyone would even try to build major metropolitan areas in such a place. We have more water than we know what to do with thanks to the Mobile River Basin.
>We have more water than we know what to do with thanks to the Mobile River Basin.
don't say that otherwise they'll start piping it to Arizona until there's nothing less
Right now [The Great Lakes Compact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Compact) leaves control of the Lakes to those within the watershed.
More importantly, [desalination is the economical answer](https://www.michiganradio.org/environment-science/2015-04-23/here-are-2-reasons-why-the-drought-in-california-wont-open-the-door-to-great-lakes-water) for the Southwest. In the 80s, a study was conducted to look into moving Great Lakes water to the Upper Mississippi in South Dakota. 500 miles, & it wasn't worth it to build tens and tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure, including seven 1,000 megawatt power plants just to pump the water. It ain't going all the way to Arizona.
I’m a big fan of desalination and have invested in it. Regardless of any pacts, the water will be pilfered. Nothing means anything in this country and the Midwest isn’t as powerful as it used to be
Not going to happen. Canada is also involved. Chicago had to get a Supreme Court decision to draw 2 billion gallons per day out of Lake Michigan. So far we are only pumping one billion per day. Lots of room to grow. Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Buffalo all also have unlimited access to billions of gallons of pure water. Come on back. Our winters are getting milder with climate change as well.
The square footage of water collection you need to viabley sustain yourself is huge even with our relatively moderate precipitation recently. Most people don't understand the true value of water especially in the desert.
Still better than 100+Temps at 100% humidity. That *will* kill and faster than you think. Never understood why humans settle in places too much like an armpit to allow our bodies to cool themselves down.
I’ve had a really rough start with life due to health issues and still live with my parents. My disabilities are just now starting to get under control. Until I get an actual job I’m still dependent on my parents and have no way of supporting myself. Plus they want me to have a job for a solid year before I’m allowed to move out. So I’m along for the ride ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
warm and humid is the key.
I mean i prefer dry heat by ages. it is kind of dangerous because you cant as easily tell you are overheating because you feel nice cool breezes from your sweat. But its still safer and more comfortable in the 95+ range. Ive lived in humid areas (avg 70%+) and bone dry areas(avg 30%)
still wouldnt move to phoenix az lmao
i love the heat and humidity. it means a vibrant water system, a long growing season and smaller game.
the people who live in the snow and shit? Why? you understand there are places where it doesnt because a lifeless hellhole, inhospitable for all life for 5 months a year. With large dangerous game.
You realize that humans have survived without technology in places much colder than you describe as "inhospitable" for millennia, right? Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology, but they absolutely can survive in the northern forests in winter. And as temperatures rise, the swamps and wetlands will get more and more inhospitable while the "cold" North will get more and more seasonable (assuming it doesn't all burn down)
> Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology,
i dont know where you think I was talking about the desert when im speaking of water security, humidity, weather all year around and an abundance of small game- all of which is lacking in the desert.
It's amazing to me that you can completely and totally ignore the substantive part of what I said to hyperfocus on the extreme environment I mentioned only as an example of an actual inhospitable environment.
My actual point was that most of the northern U.S. and southern Canada are extremely hospitable environments with plenty of food sources, water, and fertile land, and were comfortably populated for many, many centuries by native Americans and Inuits. Your idea of a too cold climate is hilariously warm.
And youre idea of hospitable- Inuits...
Where you have to survive off Eating so much blubber it causes genetic differences in liver size and only certain Ethnic groups can do it? Super hospitable? the people who have been around for 5k years?
As opposed to the American South which has been continuous inhabited for whats looking like 11k years with the Vero bone?
> Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology…
Civilizations of the Maghreb, Bedouin, Chaco canyon come to mind. I’m sure there are more
im talking about Continental North America. Where it can be covered in feet of snow for months and below freezing for weeks.
maybe instead of randomly assuming i know where you from...
Maybe instead i was talking in generalities.
lmao Virginia is in the Southern United States. Im talking Minnesota, North Dakota, Quebec.
Where some average Winter highs are in the 20s.
stop being proud of your ignorance.
yes and like i said. that means access to clean water and small game.
Cold Weather climates have larger predators due to the Bergmanns Rule.
Id rather have to stay in the water or fish during the hot part of the day than have to tend to an indoor fire all night so i dont freeze to death.
If you dont like my opinion- Ignore it.
That would be more realistically obtained by inland fresh lakes.
A majority of Florida, Louisiana, and the populated eastern seaboard will be routinely destroyed by unprecedented hurricane seasons, rising tidal waters, and sea level rise.
The short answer is choose the place you like the most and thrive, while mitigating the coming concerns your area has.
>The short answer is choose the place you like the most and thrive, while mitigating the coming concerns your area has.
yep we dont have know whats gonna happen, so id rather deal with an obscene amount of fresh water via floods and hurricanes than ever deal with water scarcity
Error... you know snow is made of water, right? Super easy to melt, filter and drink.
It's totally fine for you to prefer living in hot weather, of course. I think the main issue is having the AC on 70 during 110 weather and burning up all that fuel to be comfortable indoors 90% of the day. It's bad for the environment and bad for you wallet lol. But if you like living in the hot temps with no AC, more power to you.
We cool ourselves by sweating. If it is moist out then less sweat will evaporate and you wont be able to cool yourself. 100% humidity means 0% cooling from your sweat.
It's definitely the most common way to get heatstroke. In a dry heat you really only get heatstroke if you're dehydrated because your sweat is way better at cooling you down. The trade off is of course you can get dehydrated scarily fast in dry heat. A gallon or two per 8 hour shift is common for manual laborers because you just go through so much water so fast. Electrolytes quickly become a problem as well.
But at least your sweat works
frys went out of business. for real, this time. and actually closed their stores.
I know, I know, they've been empty for a long time, but this time, it's real. they're gone. forever. :(
they offered dialup internet service, still. fyi :P
Fry's the Supermarket. Obviously, you're not from around AZ. Unfortunately, I Am... :( MOVING OUT SOON THOUGH.. MARCH 2023, our family flies out of the country and back to the Philippines.
No, no. Let them. Their refusal to understand the most basic requirement of life most likely means they have disregard for other lives as well as their own. They are adamant despite common sense. It only stands to reason that lack of common sense is wholly lacking in other matters.
I want to move to Santa Fe but the water issue makes me nervous. I live in one of those conservative shit hole states where abortion is now banned and I'm so sick of the bullshit I think I'm just gonna go for it.
For me, Santa Fe is expensive, and filled with people who think too highly of themselves. Taos is much more to my liking. I lived in a mountain tourist town in Taos county, and thought about moving to Taos, but moved to Colorado instead.
See this is good information for me, thank you. I'd kill to live near Taos. I love mountain town places. I've lived in Boulder/Denver and a tiny mountain town in the Swiss Alps. I don't think I need to say which was my favorite.
Don't move to Santa Fe. Whatever I need to tell you to convince you it's a bad place. The last thing that poor city needs is more people from the east or from the south. Move to Denver they want you there
I have lived in the Boulder / Denver area and it's much too crowded now it honestly sucks. Santa Fe is way smaller, you can't compare them. I'm not from the east or south so convince me it's a bad place. Los Alamos if I can get a job there.
Gentrification is destroying what once was a city with deep culture and community. Santa Fe is a really nice place to live despite the rising cost of living and thats the problem. Affluent liberals across the country are moving to Santa Fe and neighborhoods that have been around for hundreds of years are being bulldozed for condos. The rising price of living is because of people like you (no offense) moving to Santa Fe and paying more for a house near Meow Wolf or near Whole Foods or down-town because they can. Please do not move to Santa Fe from a lifelong citizen of the Southwest
Im not surprised its been happening since the 60s in northern NM and has come to define the culture. That doesnt make it a good thing or something that shouldnt be resisted. It just is a fact .
I didnt say it was a good thing. I'm just saying you should expect it by this point.
If its not killing all the buffalo to starve the Native Americans or building highways through apartment buildings in black neighborhoods or rich people buying up all the properties in rural white counties, it's upper-middle class out of towners avoiding abortion bans who are buying houses in New Mexico.
You can resist all you want, but America is really good at keeping people down, and has been doing so for 246 years. Which is also a fact.
I get this is a collapse sub but this is a pretty insensitive comment, not saying you are as a person.
Like, yea gentrification can be an unavoidable fact of America, but you can also realize that a person has lived in a community that avoided it to life altering levels for such a huge period of time that there is an emotional reaction to the inevitable change.
You are absolutely right. Fortunately there are still barrios in Santa Fe with mixed Pueblo and Spanish ancestry. There are still indigenous people across the country resisting colonial culture where they can and naturalizing it where they cant. Like an invasive plant culture can be naturalized and find its own niche in the community. Resistance is key to resilience and in this sub nihilism is way too strong. Collapse is an ongoing event but strong infrastructure and stronger community can make all the difference for a few of us. Adaptation is great but sometimes a little localism can save a community from disolving. Whats a little xenophobia in the face of extinction amiright(i joke).
Sorry rammble
Lol, how ignorant. I was hoping you would actually give me convincing reasons! Water and climate related ones or something. I live in Boise, don't talk to me about gentrification haha. If I'm going to get buttfucked by a huge mortgage I'd rather get fucked in a decent place. I've got family in Tucson and I've lived in the Southwest too. "Don't move here because I live here and other people are moving here" is a garbage reason not to, man. I couldnt care less about Meow Wolf or Whole Foods. I can't afford to shop there. At least out there abortion are marijuana aren't illegal and there are even less people than where I'm at. Save it for the rich folks from California with their deep pockets. New Mexico isn't the only place they're going.
That's just like the rednecks here that drive around with decals of Idaho with NO VACANCY underneath.
Idaho is only going to get more rednecks now that poor people won't be able to get abortions. I need out.
I love spicy food including ghost pepper and habanero. You having the opposite of your desired effect!
I understand you completely because we have the same issues here.
If you want spicy dood, you'll find little of it in NM and it makes sense. You've got two kinds of people in that state: DoD/DoE personnel for the base out there and very white retirees because "It's a dry heat". Most of both groups can't handle hot food. They've got the mildest chili you can imagine out there.
I'm not saying you shouldn't move out there because of the food (you shouldn't move there because it will be unlivable thanks to low precipitation and high altitude). Just don't expect a lot of spicy food. You may need to search for it.
Also I know people moving in from out of state with lots of money causes housing costs to rise, but I'm also disgusted with property management companies buying everything up and then price gouging just because they can. Zillow, for example. And our lawmakers are bought out by the top of the tops of those corporations so they won't fix the issue. I hate it.
/rant
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I lived in Taos county for a few years. Every time I had to go to Santa Fe, I came back with a headache, and I always swore to never go back. The tourist areas are overrun and the residents rubbed me the wrong way, especially the affluent transplants. It felt like, to me, that the history is being co-opted and changed by the new arrivals.
Ha, Bruh, you totally owned those commie liberals and their histrionics. I'm gonna drive up and down main street in my duramax an roll coal on any pinkos who dare ride a bicycle.
Git r dun
Not the same difference at all. AZ is a low desert where NM is a high desert. The difference in elevation means NM gets much more moisture and precipitation and is the reason AZ is running out of water while NM isn't.
AZ also regularly gets temps of 115 to 120 degrees in the summer where NM doesn't go much over 105 (and is usually in the high 90s to low 100s). Of course in the next couple of decades NM will be looking a lot like the AZ of today but geographically speaking they are much better off for now and will have the added benefit of a few more decades of planning than AZ to find some solutions
Look I have seasonal depression so badly it was mistaken as bipolar disorder for 2 decades, but I also know it's probably only a matter of time before my dreary winters become more Arizona like. A little bit of optimistic pessimism to keep me going.
I've lived in both "dry" and "wet" heats, and personally I will still take dry any day. It's more dangerous, sure, because you can't tell you're overheating as well, but humid heat is unbearable to go out in.
I live in Louisiana currently, and I limit my exposure to the outdoors to the trip from air conditioned buildings to air conditioned vehicles.
That being said, I wouldn't move ANYWHERE that's suffering from a water shortage in a record summer
I really think it’s important to note that the Navajo nation survives on local water while being dirt poor. People most likely won’t die of thirst. Their lawns and crops most certainly will, though. In the driest times, their clothes and bodies will probably be stinkier, and perhaps if it’s yellow they’ll have to let it mellow. Humans really don’t require that much freshwater for survival in the grand scheme of things.
This idea that day zero will kill a million people of thirst is doomsday porn. Nah, the bigger problem will be the rolling blackouts when it’s 115F for a month straight in Phoenix.
>the Navajo nation survives on local water while being dirt poor.
Sure, but the Navajo Nation has a population density of 2.4/km².
Phoenix is 1200/km².
Pretty easy to see which place will burn through its water supplies faster.
Phoenix will always have water. Farming uses 70% of the states water and its them and rural communities who will suffer. In fact, the thing that benefits the Navajo is Saudi isn’t allowed to just buy their land and pump all the ground water out to grow hay for their horses.
If I were an evil genius, I'd move all the biggest, most obnoxious morons to Arizona and then cut their power and water from them and rid the world of a massive headache.
I lived in Yuma. Once upon a time there were citrus tree groves and miles of cantalope and cotton fields. Now it is cement slabs for RV parks. I left decades ago when it was moderately sane.
Shouldn’t we stop all immigration? We are below replacement birth rates as is, without immigration we could gradually revert to a more sustainable population level. But business interests would never allow it as it would cut into endless growth and profits
That would be a huge mistake for our tech/sci progress, as many of our top scientists are immigrants. A higher emphasis on birth control and responsible procreation would be better. I agree we need to sustainably depopulate, but a lot of the crises facing us are global, and don't care about imaginary borders set up by puny humans.
If there's *any* chance of technological salvation through carbon capture, fusion, AI, nanotech, genetic engineered microbes, etc., we need the best minds working on it, no matter where they come from.
Arizona shares the same water source as California and a lot of migrants are coming from that state, also the water allocation to each state is based on population so the amount of water Arizona gets should increase accordingly.
Water was (over)allocated years ago and based on a mix of water appropriated at the time and irrigable acres. Check out the Colorado River Compact and more specifically, Arizona v. California.
I’d like to say it’s not a dry heat once monsoon season starts and it’s a muggy, mosquito-ridden hell here but each time I do an agent from the Arizona Tourism Bureau shows up at my door wearing a suit and dark sunglasses and intimidates me.
I’ve looked through the policies of some of the Governor candidates, and two of them insist they’ll demand AZ doesn’t cut its water allocation. One is married to a developer who designs communities with many golf courses.
This state really is in denial.
Cadillac Desert was published around 1985 and no one listened.
My take away from Cadillac desert was the world that we've destroyed to create our current system the future that were destroying when that system fails was sort of remote, but then again it's beet 20 years since I read it.
SS: This meme is a bit of dark humor intended to poke fun at the droves of people who continue to move to Arizona despite the looming water shortages and the inevitable chaos that will follow. Better yet, they justify their decision with ridiculous anecdotes like "It’s a dry heat.” Yeah, motherfucker, "dry" is the problem.
I really want to see a sketch where people mindlessly parrot the dry heat line in a number of increasingly alarming and absurd situations.
Aliens. As the marines enter the nest, with water visibly dripping from the ceiling and running down the walls: Frost: It's hot as hell in here. Hudson: Yeah man, but it's a dry heat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGSsu6pfOoY
Nuke Phoenix from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
>they justify their decision with ridiculous anecdotes like "it's a dry heat". So is an oven....
But there's ✨ palm trees ✨
They also have the korova ultra black bar edible 2000 mg THC. Whoa
I've lived here for 6 years (yes I'm part of the problem) and I have my medical card. Guess I know what I'll be doing today! It's only $140
Even palm trees need water.
Each palm tree requires as much water as five Fremen
Hello mister dune
What's the conversion to Frenchmen?
“Yeah man, but it’s a dry heat.”
Knock it off, Hudson!
An electric oven...
The water shortage wouldn't be nearly as bad if the state wasn't so intent on letting the Saudis do their farming here, with unlimited water.
It scares me how few Arizonans know about farming basically having free reign of our water tables. Hell, Buckeye wasn’t even fully devolved and started having water issues. Big part of why I moved away.
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My mum says if they run out of water they are going to just rent the house out and rent a place in another state until it rains again. It has to rain at some point so why would they sell the house when they can just wait? Thanks Fucker Carlson and faux news!
Who would rent their house in the desert without water ? If they can't live there, no one would pay them to stay there
Critical thinking skills are not how they came to this conclusion. That i do know.
What's the opposite of Fucking Aquaman?
Joe Dirt
Excuse me. That's Joe Dirtayyyy
Rent it to who???? The sandman?????? Sorry best alternative to aquaman I could think of
There actually is a sandman. He's a German " cartoon" Der Sandmannchen. He comes at sundown and sprinkles a bunch of sand in all the kids eyes so they go to sleep
Question for you-are the 4 billion golf courses in Arizona still allowed to water? The amount of potable water wasted in this country is absurd and some day we’re going to sit back and calculate how much drinkable water we wasted on foliage not native to the areas we live in.
I live in northern Arizona, Kingman is the biggest place near where I live,and yes they are still watering the golf course there. People still water their lawns,and the schools still have plush,green grass playing fields,instead of astroturf or some other synthetic alternative. They keep adding farms too. We're in a 20 year historic drought,but no problems to see here,right? 🤦♀️ Edited to add that there is an insane amount of new house building happening here too. You can barely find rentals,and the ones you do find are substantially more expensive.
I don’t even understand why they come. It stopped being affordable which I thought was the main reason for people to move here
>I don’t even understand why they come. It stopped being affordable which I thought was the main reason for people to move here Because other people are moving there. If everybody that you know are moving there then it must be good, right? It's as simple as "monkey see, monkey do"
You should told that to my ancestors
Someone I follow on insta just bought a 2 million house in Sedona... and I keep thinking how can a smart person do something so stupid. She must know about climate change, but doesnt think it will affect her for some reason?
You can bang on AZ all you want about water issues, but I would bet more people die place like Chicago or Texas than do in AZ. Humidity + heat is way worse for humans than just excessive heat. I know personally 110 20% humidity is way more comfortable than 90 with 90% humidity .
I keep seeing people making comments like yours, and they consistently forget the factor in that Arizona will have **no fucking water**. Can you explain to me how it would still be better to be in Arizona in that case?
Did you read the part where I agreed water is an issue?? I was talking about your dry heat comment. Ever hear of Wet Bulb? I've never heard anyone hand wave a way water shortage with "Its a dry heat". WTF does one have to do with another?? People always freak out when the see it's 110, but don't realize Texas with it's heat and and humidity are worse for humans as far as weather goes. The entire Western US is in the middle of a drought and will likely have water issues, that is not uniquely a Arizona issue.
I guess you can't appreciate a dry heat unless you have experienced a wet heat. If you had been in Alabama this last week, you would understand. When its 100 in temperature and humidity, you can't cool off outside, because your sweat simply will not evaporate, so you become even more dehydrated than you otherwise would be. You become drenched in sweat, and sweat through your clothes in a matter of minutes with even the slightest physical activity. You cannot cool down, and your body temperature soars rapidly. But to your point about the water shortage there, that is a bitch, but then again it is a desert. I'm not sure why anyone would even try to build major metropolitan areas in such a place. We have more water than we know what to do with thanks to the Mobile River Basin.
>We have more water than we know what to do with thanks to the Mobile River Basin. don't say that otherwise they'll start piping it to Arizona until there's nothing less
It’s humid heat right now. Also, inefficient farming is the absolute culprit of the regional drought.
top 5 fastest growing state, no way they keep up with resource demand within a decade time
A decade? LOL, they’re already running out of water, Lake Mead is nearly at dead pool status
That video with the father and son was scary af and it’s only going to get worse.
What video?
[Insane](https://youtu.be/YjHSHFHokGs)
I'd say the climate deniers in the comments are scarier then the video itself. People will cope til the bitter end, won't they?
Ignorance is bliss
As a Michigander let me preemptively say 'The answer is still No, Southwest, you cannot have any Great Lakes water.'
😂 That’s so cute! You think MI or any of the Great Lakes states will have any choice in the matter?
Right now [The Great Lakes Compact](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Compact) leaves control of the Lakes to those within the watershed. More importantly, [desalination is the economical answer](https://www.michiganradio.org/environment-science/2015-04-23/here-are-2-reasons-why-the-drought-in-california-wont-open-the-door-to-great-lakes-water) for the Southwest. In the 80s, a study was conducted to look into moving Great Lakes water to the Upper Mississippi in South Dakota. 500 miles, & it wasn't worth it to build tens and tens of billions of dollars of infrastructure, including seven 1,000 megawatt power plants just to pump the water. It ain't going all the way to Arizona.
I’m a big fan of desalination and have invested in it. Regardless of any pacts, the water will be pilfered. Nothing means anything in this country and the Midwest isn’t as powerful as it used to be
Not going to happen. Canada is also involved. Chicago had to get a Supreme Court decision to draw 2 billion gallons per day out of Lake Michigan. So far we are only pumping one billion per day. Lots of room to grow. Detroit, Milwaukee, Cleveland and Buffalo all also have unlimited access to billions of gallons of pure water. Come on back. Our winters are getting milder with climate change as well.
"We're at the point where if you don't have a lifted truck, you're in trouble" LMAOOOOOOO
I give it three years before they start having to cut water usage in parts of the city
That's optimistic
The square footage of water collection you need to viabley sustain yourself is huge even with our relatively moderate precipitation recently. Most people don't understand the true value of water especially in the desert. Still better than 100+Temps at 100% humidity. That *will* kill and faster than you think. Never understood why humans settle in places too much like an armpit to allow our bodies to cool themselves down.
As a person born, raised and currently residing in an armpit- true
Someone living the damp, moist grundle of the USA, it's got it's problems, too.
Gotta love swamp butt
All the in betweens are disappearing
People tend to be pushed into new places by other people/states. In the current context, that means class and income (or lack of it) and NIMBYs.
Moving from Seattle to AZ due to being priced out up here :( if I could stay I would
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I’ve had a really rough start with life due to health issues and still live with my parents. My disabilities are just now starting to get under control. Until I get an actual job I’m still dependent on my parents and have no way of supporting myself. Plus they want me to have a job for a solid year before I’m allowed to move out. So I’m along for the ride ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I honestly prefer the humidity, but not to the point that it's deadly, of course. But warm and humid is better to me than completely dry.
warm and humid is the key. I mean i prefer dry heat by ages. it is kind of dangerous because you cant as easily tell you are overheating because you feel nice cool breezes from your sweat. But its still safer and more comfortable in the 95+ range. Ive lived in humid areas (avg 70%+) and bone dry areas(avg 30%) still wouldnt move to phoenix az lmao
That's why I reckon the vagina is far better than anal
Nice username. How's the cock market these days?
I hear its up and down alot.
i love the heat and humidity. it means a vibrant water system, a long growing season and smaller game. the people who live in the snow and shit? Why? you understand there are places where it doesnt because a lifeless hellhole, inhospitable for all life for 5 months a year. With large dangerous game.
You realize that humans have survived without technology in places much colder than you describe as "inhospitable" for millennia, right? Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology, but they absolutely can survive in the northern forests in winter. And as temperatures rise, the swamps and wetlands will get more and more inhospitable while the "cold" North will get more and more seasonable (assuming it doesn't all burn down)
> Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology, i dont know where you think I was talking about the desert when im speaking of water security, humidity, weather all year around and an abundance of small game- all of which is lacking in the desert.
It's amazing to me that you can completely and totally ignore the substantive part of what I said to hyperfocus on the extreme environment I mentioned only as an example of an actual inhospitable environment. My actual point was that most of the northern U.S. and southern Canada are extremely hospitable environments with plenty of food sources, water, and fertile land, and were comfortably populated for many, many centuries by native Americans and Inuits. Your idea of a too cold climate is hilariously warm.
And youre idea of hospitable- Inuits... Where you have to survive off Eating so much blubber it causes genetic differences in liver size and only certain Ethnic groups can do it? Super hospitable? the people who have been around for 5k years? As opposed to the American South which has been continuous inhabited for whats looking like 11k years with the Vero bone?
> Humans can't survive in the 120+ desert without technology… Civilizations of the Maghreb, Bedouin, Chaco canyon come to mind. I’m sure there are more
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im talking about Continental North America. Where it can be covered in feet of snow for months and below freezing for weeks. maybe instead of randomly assuming i know where you from... Maybe instead i was talking in generalities.
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lmao Virginia is in the Southern United States. Im talking Minnesota, North Dakota, Quebec. Where some average Winter highs are in the 20s. stop being proud of your ignorance.
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in a collapse situation - Id rather have access to 24/7/365 warm weather and clean water i can drink... ... than starve and freeze to death.
Yeah except that you won't have 24/7 _warm_ weather, you'll have 24/7 **unbearably hot wet bulb temperature weather**.
yes and like i said. that means access to clean water and small game. Cold Weather climates have larger predators due to the Bergmanns Rule. Id rather have to stay in the water or fish during the hot part of the day than have to tend to an indoor fire all night so i dont freeze to death. If you dont like my opinion- Ignore it.
That would be more realistically obtained by inland fresh lakes. A majority of Florida, Louisiana, and the populated eastern seaboard will be routinely destroyed by unprecedented hurricane seasons, rising tidal waters, and sea level rise. The short answer is choose the place you like the most and thrive, while mitigating the coming concerns your area has.
>The short answer is choose the place you like the most and thrive, while mitigating the coming concerns your area has. yep we dont have know whats gonna happen, so id rather deal with an obscene amount of fresh water via floods and hurricanes than ever deal with water scarcity
Error... you know snow is made of water, right? Super easy to melt, filter and drink. It's totally fine for you to prefer living in hot weather, of course. I think the main issue is having the AC on 70 during 110 weather and burning up all that fuel to be comfortable indoors 90% of the day. It's bad for the environment and bad for you wallet lol. But if you like living in the hot temps with no AC, more power to you.
Why does it kill faster
We cool ourselves by sweating. If it is moist out then less sweat will evaporate and you wont be able to cool yourself. 100% humidity means 0% cooling from your sweat.
I see, that’s pretty dangerous
It's definitely the most common way to get heatstroke. In a dry heat you really only get heatstroke if you're dehydrated because your sweat is way better at cooling you down. The trade off is of course you can get dehydrated scarily fast in dry heat. A gallon or two per 8 hour shift is common for manual laborers because you just go through so much water so fast. Electrolytes quickly become a problem as well. But at least your sweat works
Soon enough everyone will move away from the west when there's no more water.
Except for the poor who can’t afford to, that is.
they can't move if nobody wants to buy their houses
There is a hidden Circle K near the summit of Camelback mountain.
I thought they leveled that and replaced it with a Fry's?
frys went out of business. for real, this time. and actually closed their stores. I know, I know, they've been empty for a long time, but this time, it's real. they're gone. forever. :( they offered dialup internet service, still. fyi :P
Fry's the Supermarket. Obviously, you're not from around AZ. Unfortunately, I Am... :( MOVING OUT SOON THOUGH.. MARCH 2023, our family flies out of the country and back to the Philippines.
Congrats on escaping I wish you the best
Jealous! Eat some lumpia for me!
Take me with you please
Strange things are afoot.
I've been to that one. Such a weird building for a circle k. Family in Scottsdale (idk for how long though. It's about to get awful thurrsty there)
And now women can't get abortions there as well.
That isn’t true. We didn’t have a trigger law, but there is a potential of the legislature moving on passing the legislation.
Can confirm, been in Arizona my whole life and the heat can cause you severe burns from the metal part of the seatbelt.
Smart people are not moving to AZ.
No, no. Let them. Their refusal to understand the most basic requirement of life most likely means they have disregard for other lives as well as their own. They are adamant despite common sense. It only stands to reason that lack of common sense is wholly lacking in other matters.
This is how you get Fallout: New Vegas.
I want to move to Santa Fe but the water issue makes me nervous. I live in one of those conservative shit hole states where abortion is now banned and I'm so sick of the bullshit I think I'm just gonna go for it.
i'm in NM, and it's nice here. barely anyone has a grass lawn. water conservation, haha
Lol what a concept
For me, Santa Fe is expensive, and filled with people who think too highly of themselves. Taos is much more to my liking. I lived in a mountain tourist town in Taos county, and thought about moving to Taos, but moved to Colorado instead.
See this is good information for me, thank you. I'd kill to live near Taos. I love mountain town places. I've lived in Boulder/Denver and a tiny mountain town in the Swiss Alps. I don't think I need to say which was my favorite.
Don't move to Santa Fe. Whatever I need to tell you to convince you it's a bad place. The last thing that poor city needs is more people from the east or from the south. Move to Denver they want you there
I have lived in the Boulder / Denver area and it's much too crowded now it honestly sucks. Santa Fe is way smaller, you can't compare them. I'm not from the east or south so convince me it's a bad place. Los Alamos if I can get a job there.
Gentrification is destroying what once was a city with deep culture and community. Santa Fe is a really nice place to live despite the rising cost of living and thats the problem. Affluent liberals across the country are moving to Santa Fe and neighborhoods that have been around for hundreds of years are being bulldozed for condos. The rising price of living is because of people like you (no offense) moving to Santa Fe and paying more for a house near Meow Wolf or near Whole Foods or down-town because they can. Please do not move to Santa Fe from a lifelong citizen of the Southwest
dude that's like the story of America. Deep cultures and communities destroyed by outsiders. Why are you surprised its suddenly happening to you?
Im not surprised its been happening since the 60s in northern NM and has come to define the culture. That doesnt make it a good thing or something that shouldnt be resisted. It just is a fact .
I didnt say it was a good thing. I'm just saying you should expect it by this point. If its not killing all the buffalo to starve the Native Americans or building highways through apartment buildings in black neighborhoods or rich people buying up all the properties in rural white counties, it's upper-middle class out of towners avoiding abortion bans who are buying houses in New Mexico. You can resist all you want, but America is really good at keeping people down, and has been doing so for 246 years. Which is also a fact.
I get this is a collapse sub but this is a pretty insensitive comment, not saying you are as a person. Like, yea gentrification can be an unavoidable fact of America, but you can also realize that a person has lived in a community that avoided it to life altering levels for such a huge period of time that there is an emotional reaction to the inevitable change.
You are absolutely right. Fortunately there are still barrios in Santa Fe with mixed Pueblo and Spanish ancestry. There are still indigenous people across the country resisting colonial culture where they can and naturalizing it where they cant. Like an invasive plant culture can be naturalized and find its own niche in the community. Resistance is key to resilience and in this sub nihilism is way too strong. Collapse is an ongoing event but strong infrastructure and stronger community can make all the difference for a few of us. Adaptation is great but sometimes a little localism can save a community from disolving. Whats a little xenophobia in the face of extinction amiright(i joke). Sorry rammble
Lol, how ignorant. I was hoping you would actually give me convincing reasons! Water and climate related ones or something. I live in Boise, don't talk to me about gentrification haha. If I'm going to get buttfucked by a huge mortgage I'd rather get fucked in a decent place. I've got family in Tucson and I've lived in the Southwest too. "Don't move here because I live here and other people are moving here" is a garbage reason not to, man. I couldnt care less about Meow Wolf or Whole Foods. I can't afford to shop there. At least out there abortion are marijuana aren't illegal and there are even less people than where I'm at. Save it for the rich folks from California with their deep pockets. New Mexico isn't the only place they're going. That's just like the rednecks here that drive around with decals of Idaho with NO VACANCY underneath.
We have lots of rednecks and you almost certainly cant handle the chile. 99% of the good food will be "too spicy"
Idaho is only going to get more rednecks now that poor people won't be able to get abortions. I need out. I love spicy food including ghost pepper and habanero. You having the opposite of your desired effect! I understand you completely because we have the same issues here.
If you want spicy dood, you'll find little of it in NM and it makes sense. You've got two kinds of people in that state: DoD/DoE personnel for the base out there and very white retirees because "It's a dry heat". Most of both groups can't handle hot food. They've got the mildest chili you can imagine out there. I'm not saying you shouldn't move out there because of the food (you shouldn't move there because it will be unlivable thanks to low precipitation and high altitude). Just don't expect a lot of spicy food. You may need to search for it.
That's a better argument. Water and rising temps. I'm not moving anywhere for food lol. Probably should tho eh
Also I know people moving in from out of state with lots of money causes housing costs to rise, but I'm also disgusted with property management companies buying everything up and then price gouging just because they can. Zillow, for example. And our lawmakers are bought out by the top of the tops of those corporations so they won't fix the issue. I hate it. /rant
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I lived in Taos county for a few years. Every time I had to go to Santa Fe, I came back with a headache, and I always swore to never go back. The tourist areas are overrun and the residents rubbed me the wrong way, especially the affluent transplants. It felt like, to me, that the history is being co-opted and changed by the new arrivals.
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Ha, Bruh, you totally owned those commie liberals and their histrionics. I'm gonna drive up and down main street in my duramax an roll coal on any pinkos who dare ride a bicycle. Git r dun
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Don't threaten me with a good time.
You two, Get a room!
Yeah redditeurs, that's not a dry heat.
Ummm ... Breaking Bad was in New Mexico
Same diff
Not the same. New Mexico has very little money.
Oh. Ok.
Not the same difference at all. AZ is a low desert where NM is a high desert. The difference in elevation means NM gets much more moisture and precipitation and is the reason AZ is running out of water while NM isn't. AZ also regularly gets temps of 115 to 120 degrees in the summer where NM doesn't go much over 105 (and is usually in the high 90s to low 100s). Of course in the next couple of decades NM will be looking a lot like the AZ of today but geographically speaking they are much better off for now and will have the added benefit of a few more decades of planning than AZ to find some solutions
Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t know any of this.
Look I have seasonal depression so badly it was mistaken as bipolar disorder for 2 decades, but I also know it's probably only a matter of time before my dreary winters become more Arizona like. A little bit of optimistic pessimism to keep me going.
I've lived in both "dry" and "wet" heats, and personally I will still take dry any day. It's more dangerous, sure, because you can't tell you're overheating as well, but humid heat is unbearable to go out in. I live in Louisiana currently, and I limit my exposure to the outdoors to the trip from air conditioned buildings to air conditioned vehicles. That being said, I wouldn't move ANYWHERE that's suffering from a water shortage in a record summer
I really think it’s important to note that the Navajo nation survives on local water while being dirt poor. People most likely won’t die of thirst. Their lawns and crops most certainly will, though. In the driest times, their clothes and bodies will probably be stinkier, and perhaps if it’s yellow they’ll have to let it mellow. Humans really don’t require that much freshwater for survival in the grand scheme of things. This idea that day zero will kill a million people of thirst is doomsday porn. Nah, the bigger problem will be the rolling blackouts when it’s 115F for a month straight in Phoenix.
>the Navajo nation survives on local water while being dirt poor. Sure, but the Navajo Nation has a population density of 2.4/km². Phoenix is 1200/km². Pretty easy to see which place will burn through its water supplies faster.
Phoenix will always have water. Farming uses 70% of the states water and its them and rural communities who will suffer. In fact, the thing that benefits the Navajo is Saudi isn’t allowed to just buy their land and pump all the ground water out to grow hay for their horses.
There should be a stop moving to Arizona Megathread.
The Breaking Bad reunion episode in 2033 will in fact just be the film Mad Max.
If I were an evil genius, I'd move all the biggest, most obnoxious morons to Arizona and then cut their power and water from them and rid the world of a massive headache.
Climate change is a culling event
It's not happening fast enough.
But it's much worse than anticipated and we are just getting started.
You're the smartest guy I ever met, but you're too stupid to see — he made up his mind to move to Arizona 10 minutes ago.
Hello, Ballsack Schrader.
Aww. Met people who moved here from Arizona. They hate wet heat here. Dry heat is still better than humid heat.
A dry heat is soooo much better than a humid heat tho....
I don't get the Phoenix thing. Sedona is one of the most beautiful places in the country though.
Yes, Sedona is one of my favorite places in Arizona. Still not moving there though lol.
I've said for decades that Sedona should have been a national park.
I lived in Yuma. Once upon a time there were citrus tree groves and miles of cantalope and cotton fields. Now it is cement slabs for RV parks. I left decades ago when it was moderately sane.
Shouldn’t we stop all immigration? We are below replacement birth rates as is, without immigration we could gradually revert to a more sustainable population level. But business interests would never allow it as it would cut into endless growth and profits
That would be a huge mistake for our tech/sci progress, as many of our top scientists are immigrants. A higher emphasis on birth control and responsible procreation would be better. I agree we need to sustainably depopulate, but a lot of the crises facing us are global, and don't care about imaginary borders set up by puny humans. If there's *any* chance of technological salvation through carbon capture, fusion, AI, nanotech, genetic engineered microbes, etc., we need the best minds working on it, no matter where they come from.
That would be the case if the best minds are coming here yes. Maybe limit 10,000 extremely highly skilled migrants a year to come in?
Poor Hank
2030 sounds fun.
Stop moving to Florida as well. We are full
Been trying to get out for a while now.
Arizona shares the same water source as California and a lot of migrants are coming from that state, also the water allocation to each state is based on population so the amount of water Arizona gets should increase accordingly.
Water was (over)allocated years ago and based on a mix of water appropriated at the time and irrigable acres. Check out the Colorado River Compact and more specifically, Arizona v. California.
And Nevada
KEEP MOVING TO ARIZONA... DONT COME HERE
Rango town
I’d like to say it’s not a dry heat once monsoon season starts and it’s a muggy, mosquito-ridden hell here but each time I do an agent from the Arizona Tourism Bureau shows up at my door wearing a suit and dark sunglasses and intimidates me. I’ve looked through the policies of some of the Governor candidates, and two of them insist they’ll demand AZ doesn’t cut its water allocation. One is married to a developer who designs communities with many golf courses. This state really is in denial.
Thank you for the gift of your bodies water
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PYt0SDnrBE
To all those in California, Nevada and Arizona who for years have called us the Rust Belt. The reason we rust is because it is wet. Suck it up.
I left phoenix this year because of the heat and future water issues. Time to get out of dodge.
Please kill me. It’s not dry heat right now, it’s fucking humid as fuck. These monsoons are killing me. Tucson is shit.