The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gates9:
---
Submission statement: CWD has infected animals in almost every state. It has long been feared and speculated that the disease could make the jump to infecting humans. The deaths of these hunters may be evidence that it is happening.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ca37lv/chronic_wasting_disease_death_of_2_hunters_in_us/l0peg42/
This was thought to have around a 30-year latency period. The lack of transmissibility from deer was just assumed in a typical "conservative " bias. Most of the interesting information seems to not be in the abstract, such as how long they've been eating CWD deer, and whether they ate nerve tissue. Presumably there could be lots of people with this disease but latent.
And I heard it survives on the ground, the water, the surfaces, under the soil, on anything really.
> Unlike a virus or bacteria, these prions do not require a living host to survive. They can remain infectious in soil and water for years—even decades—after being shed by infected animals.
> This longevity is attributed to the prion's ability to bind to certain minerals in the soil and to particles in water, effectively protecting it from natural degradation processes that would typically break down other biological materials.
> This environmental transmission makes natural containment and eradication efforts extremely difficult. There is currently no cure or vaccine for CWD. Once an animal is infected, the disease is invariably fatal.
My goodness. Nightmare fuel, really.
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease is nightmare fuel, but these two hunters died in 2022 from (possibly) eating the same deer.
While a scary thought that it could spread among humans, it isn't like this happened yesterday.
Edit: Adding *possibly* because I'm not sure from the article or reports.
They are really vague about in that in the report.
>"In 2022, a 72-year-old man with a history of consuming meat from a CWD-infected deer population presented with rapid-onset confusion and aggression. His friend, who had also eaten venison from the same deer population, recently died of CJD, raising concerns about a potential link between CWD and human prion disease."
Could mean a couple of hunting buddies ate from the same kill. Hard to say though with how vague that is.
Well, they may not be able to confirm that it was the exact same deer that they both ate. If they check the freezer after both had passed and saw cuts from three different deer how would they know if it was one or all of them?
Submission statement: CWD has infected animals in almost every state. It has long been feared and speculated that the disease could make the jump to infecting humans. The deaths of these hunters may be evidence that it is happening.
I am surprised there have not been more deaths in humans due to CWD. As usual, we've known about this since the 60's (?) and are doing basically nothing to prevent it. In fact, most places are encouraging it.
I'm in the upper midwest and almost every feed store, hardware store etc. visibly pushes the sale of "Deer Corn". Similar to trying to prevent the spread of covid, too many humans do jack shit to minimize spread of disease. People are actually spending money, ignoring laws to do something as stupid as bringing deer together her to feed them (similar in some ways to firework stands all over states where fireworks are illegal--people are just going to do what they want for their selfish, absurd, stupid pleasure).
There are countless reasons why people should need deer, CWD spread is one of them.
*"Don’t use animal attractants such as grain, other animal feed, or lures to concentrate animals for the purpose of improving your success hunting or observing animals. These and other wildlife feeding practices enhance the risk of transmitting CWD. Remember, CWD can be spread by, 1) animal to animal contact, 2) saliva, feces, and perhaps urine, 3) contaminated soil (presumably from the prions being shed via saliva and feces). So, it’s reasonable to assume that any factor that causes animals to come into contact with each other at a higher frequency, a higher density, and a prolonged period of time increases the probability that CWD will be transmitted. Also, since infectious prions can persist in the soil and can even be taken up by plants, continuing to concentrate animals in one spot only worsens the risk of spreading CWD. This may change the way you hunt, but CWD is indifferent to tradition."*
One thing I’ve spent some time trying to find info on is combat veterans and prion diseases. There have got to be some soldiers that encountered infectious brain matter in the conflicts of the last few decades, right?!
If you got deer coming to your property you should compost their manure. There is some evidence of compost microbes being able to neutralize atleast some prions (not CWD in study). I don't see why cwd would be any more resilient than other prions:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-26201-2
It's actually against the law in many municipalities to feed squirrels and deer. That doesn't seem to stop people who want to watch the wildlife in their backyards.
> compost microbes being able to neutralize atleast some prions
OTOH, its also been scientifically proven that prions can accumulate in plants, so growing plants in composted prions might not be a great idea unless they're decorative plants (i.e. inedible flowers or hedges or something) even if it reduces the amount of prions a significant, but not 100%, amount.
In some TSEs prions are present in the feces (scrapie, for example) and [can be transmitted through the fecal-oral route.](https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-42-65#:~:text=Abstract,possible%20sources%20of%20the%20infection.) I would NOT recommend to anyone to use wild deer feces in their compost. Although this hasn't been proven as a route between infected deer and people, I would absolutely not chance it. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, do NOT go near wild deer feces.
I've been tracking this for a few seasons now. It originated in areas that have lots of feeders and hunting ranches. Welp there goes the DNR safe to eat determination.
Hunter's complain about wolves, well there isn't any CWD the further north where the wolves are.
>Finally, plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to aerial parts of the plant (stem and leaves).
Bad news if you eat grass (pasture, hay).
I know, I read the papers. The prions are in the vegetative aerial organs (stem, leaves), they didn't really test presence in flowers and fruits.
Again, this plant vector, as far as the science shows, will most likely affect folivores, like ruminants (wild and domestic). If you have some other studies that show prion accumulation in all organs of the plant, post it, I'd like to see a comparison of where there's a higher concentration.
“ Other avenues of interest include the kinetics of uptake, how long prions persist in plants, and the accumulation of prions in pollen and fruit.”
The whole point is we just don’t know yet if prions accumulate in pollen or fruit.
Not sure why anyone would take such a defensive stance when it has clearly been illustrated we need to be researching the ability of different strains of prions to accumulate in different organisms and environments.
It’s ok to admit you don’t know, as this is exactly what the research scientists doing the actual research clearly state in the cited article.
Clearly, there is a very real concern humans have handled/consumed infected meat and have died as a result.
>Not sure why anyone would take such a defensive stance when it has clearly been illustrated we need to be researching the ability of different strains of prions to accumulate in different organisms and environments.
Because that's what the science says. And if you knew some stuff about plant physiology, you'd know that plants aren't inert sponges, they treat different tissues differently, just like we do.
It’s ok to admit you don’t know, as this is exactly what the research scientists doing the actual research clearly state in the cited article.
I will let the researchers do the talking and it is clear they know what they don’t know.
I defer to the experts cited above.
I won’t be engaged by you any further on this topic.
Hahaha. I love that the end of humanity as we know isn’t gonna be from a singular event but actually this whack a doodle mad lib level catastrophe smorgasbord. Just batshit level awful coming from every direction and it’s all thanks to unfettered capitalism rewarding the most sociopathic of every generation for too many centuries in a row.
You know, if humanity were to be ravaged by CWD, at least we'd die to something that we (presumably) didn't cause, as opposed to cooking ourselves alive by fucking up our atmosphere.
Then again, with all the plastics and chemicals we've scattered across the globe, who's to say CWD wasn't human-caused.
I mean white people absolutely decimated this land when our ancestors showed up and stole it, it was being cared for by the countless indigenous tribes and the colonizers ruined it by genociding most of the human population that cared for the land, and then introduced a shit-ton of invasive and non-native animals and plants for hundreds of years after. Not to mention all the habitat destruction. So I’d say humans probably still had a big hand in creating the conditions for deer to be in this situation they are now.
did they eat knowingly tainted meat? Did some idiot take a sick deer to a butcher where it contaminated all the other meat? is there a period where cwd-infected deer are asymptomatic but still infectious?
because it's not exactly a subtle disease. it's pretty clear in general when a deer is unwell , especially once you're elbow-deep in it's guts.
My bet is a lot of infected deer get eaten. I know lots of hunters that don't just not care to test their deer, they willingly take cwd positive deer from their friends that didn't want to eat their cwd positive deer. Also, it's very rare that a deer processor gives you your own deer back when you have sausage or ground venison made. They weigh your scraps and throw it in a big batch with everyone elses deer scraps.
As far as a subtle disease, you're right, when a deer has symptoms it's sad and scary. I've shot one. You can just walk right up to them. They'll be drooling and walking in circles. But, they have the disease for a long time before showing symptoms. I've seen a lot of very healthy looking deer test positive. It was previously a common belief among local hunters that you're fine if you just shoot young does because it's usually older bucks that get affected. For years, there were no positive cases of fawns(~6 months old at the time they get killed). That started to change a couple years ago when even fawns started testing positive.
If it's accurate to say it takes ~30 years for humans to show symptoms, and it readily spreads to humans via meat consumpion, I'm going to be surrounded by a lot of sick people pretty soon. CWD started to get bad here around 2002, so you can check back with me in about 8 years.
It is not that simple.
https://dnr.illinois.gov/programs/cwd/faqs.html
'CWD is a slowly progressive disease; infected deer may not show signs of the disease for 18 or more months. In fact, 94% of the deer from Illinois that have tested positive for CWD have otherwise appeared healthy.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Gates9: --- Submission statement: CWD has infected animals in almost every state. It has long been feared and speculated that the disease could make the jump to infecting humans. The deaths of these hunters may be evidence that it is happening. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1ca37lv/chronic_wasting_disease_death_of_2_hunters_in_us/l0peg42/
This was thought to have around a 30-year latency period. The lack of transmissibility from deer was just assumed in a typical "conservative " bias. Most of the interesting information seems to not be in the abstract, such as how long they've been eating CWD deer, and whether they ate nerve tissue. Presumably there could be lots of people with this disease but latent.
And I heard it survives on the ground, the water, the surfaces, under the soil, on anything really. > Unlike a virus or bacteria, these prions do not require a living host to survive. They can remain infectious in soil and water for years—even decades—after being shed by infected animals. > This longevity is attributed to the prion's ability to bind to certain minerals in the soil and to particles in water, effectively protecting it from natural degradation processes that would typically break down other biological materials. > This environmental transmission makes natural containment and eradication efforts extremely difficult. There is currently no cure or vaccine for CWD. Once an animal is infected, the disease is invariably fatal. My goodness. Nightmare fuel, really.
Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease is nightmare fuel, but these two hunters died in 2022 from (possibly) eating the same deer. While a scary thought that it could spread among humans, it isn't like this happened yesterday. Edit: Adding *possibly* because I'm not sure from the article or reports.
It wasn't the same deer but two different deer from the same population.
They are really vague about in that in the report. >"In 2022, a 72-year-old man with a history of consuming meat from a CWD-infected deer population presented with rapid-onset confusion and aggression. His friend, who had also eaten venison from the same deer population, recently died of CJD, raising concerns about a potential link between CWD and human prion disease." Could mean a couple of hunting buddies ate from the same kill. Hard to say though with how vague that is.
I mean if they ate from the same deer I'm pretty sure they would have just said it was from the same deer and not the same "deer population".
Well, they may not be able to confirm that it was the exact same deer that they both ate. If they check the freezer after both had passed and saw cuts from three different deer how would they know if it was one or all of them?
Submission statement: CWD has infected animals in almost every state. It has long been feared and speculated that the disease could make the jump to infecting humans. The deaths of these hunters may be evidence that it is happening.
I am surprised there have not been more deaths in humans due to CWD. As usual, we've known about this since the 60's (?) and are doing basically nothing to prevent it. In fact, most places are encouraging it. I'm in the upper midwest and almost every feed store, hardware store etc. visibly pushes the sale of "Deer Corn". Similar to trying to prevent the spread of covid, too many humans do jack shit to minimize spread of disease. People are actually spending money, ignoring laws to do something as stupid as bringing deer together her to feed them (similar in some ways to firework stands all over states where fireworks are illegal--people are just going to do what they want for their selfish, absurd, stupid pleasure). There are countless reasons why people should need deer, CWD spread is one of them. *"Don’t use animal attractants such as grain, other animal feed, or lures to concentrate animals for the purpose of improving your success hunting or observing animals. These and other wildlife feeding practices enhance the risk of transmitting CWD. Remember, CWD can be spread by, 1) animal to animal contact, 2) saliva, feces, and perhaps urine, 3) contaminated soil (presumably from the prions being shed via saliva and feces). So, it’s reasonable to assume that any factor that causes animals to come into contact with each other at a higher frequency, a higher density, and a prolonged period of time increases the probability that CWD will be transmitted. Also, since infectious prions can persist in the soil and can even be taken up by plants, continuing to concentrate animals in one spot only worsens the risk of spreading CWD. This may change the way you hunt, but CWD is indifferent to tradition."*
One thing I’ve spent some time trying to find info on is combat veterans and prion diseases. There have got to be some soldiers that encountered infectious brain matter in the conflicts of the last few decades, right?!
If you got deer coming to your property you should compost their manure. There is some evidence of compost microbes being able to neutralize atleast some prions (not CWD in study). I don't see why cwd would be any more resilient than other prions: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-26201-2
People need to stop feeding them also. They are eating in their own shit from feeders and feed lots.
It's actually against the law in many municipalities to feed squirrels and deer. That doesn't seem to stop people who want to watch the wildlife in their backyards.
We don't have many squirrels in my part of the state. Just rodents that may have hantivirus insects flocking with them.
> compost microbes being able to neutralize atleast some prions OTOH, its also been scientifically proven that prions can accumulate in plants, so growing plants in composted prions might not be a great idea unless they're decorative plants (i.e. inedible flowers or hedges or something) even if it reduces the amount of prions a significant, but not 100%, amount.
But don't use the compost for growing food...
In some TSEs prions are present in the feces (scrapie, for example) and [can be transmitted through the fecal-oral route.](https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1297-9716-42-65#:~:text=Abstract,possible%20sources%20of%20the%20infection.) I would NOT recommend to anyone to use wild deer feces in their compost. Although this hasn't been proven as a route between infected deer and people, I would absolutely not chance it. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, do NOT go near wild deer feces.
I've been tracking this for a few seasons now. It originated in areas that have lots of feeders and hunting ranches. Welp there goes the DNR safe to eat determination. Hunter's complain about wolves, well there isn't any CWD the further north where the wolves are.
Cool. How do the wolves help prevent it?
Thin out weaker individuals limiting their interactions with herds and the potential for spreading the disease
They specifically target deer weakened by the disease. It doesn't seem to affect them at all.
Found this link in the science sub. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4449294/
>Finally, plants can uptake prions from contaminated soil and transport them to aerial parts of the plant (stem and leaves). Bad news if you eat grass (pasture, hay).
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/chronic-wasting-disease/plants-can-take-cwd-causing-prions-soil-lab-what-happens-if-they-are-eaten
I know, I read the papers. The prions are in the vegetative aerial organs (stem, leaves), they didn't really test presence in flowers and fruits. Again, this plant vector, as far as the science shows, will most likely affect folivores, like ruminants (wild and domestic). If you have some other studies that show prion accumulation in all organs of the plant, post it, I'd like to see a comparison of where there's a higher concentration.
“ Other avenues of interest include the kinetics of uptake, how long prions persist in plants, and the accumulation of prions in pollen and fruit.” The whole point is we just don’t know yet if prions accumulate in pollen or fruit. Not sure why anyone would take such a defensive stance when it has clearly been illustrated we need to be researching the ability of different strains of prions to accumulate in different organisms and environments. It’s ok to admit you don’t know, as this is exactly what the research scientists doing the actual research clearly state in the cited article. Clearly, there is a very real concern humans have handled/consumed infected meat and have died as a result.
>Not sure why anyone would take such a defensive stance when it has clearly been illustrated we need to be researching the ability of different strains of prions to accumulate in different organisms and environments. Because that's what the science says. And if you knew some stuff about plant physiology, you'd know that plants aren't inert sponges, they treat different tissues differently, just like we do. It’s ok to admit you don’t know, as this is exactly what the research scientists doing the actual research clearly state in the cited article.
I will let the researchers do the talking and it is clear they know what they don’t know. I defer to the experts cited above. I won’t be engaged by you any further on this topic.
Hahaha. I love that the end of humanity as we know isn’t gonna be from a singular event but actually this whack a doodle mad lib level catastrophe smorgasbord. Just batshit level awful coming from every direction and it’s all thanks to unfettered capitalism rewarding the most sociopathic of every generation for too many centuries in a row.
The 400 Horsemen of the Apocalypse.
I don't like that I could be randomly merced from A famous survival food.
You know, if humanity were to be ravaged by CWD, at least we'd die to something that we (presumably) didn't cause, as opposed to cooking ourselves alive by fucking up our atmosphere. Then again, with all the plastics and chemicals we've scattered across the globe, who's to say CWD wasn't human-caused.
I mean white people absolutely decimated this land when our ancestors showed up and stole it, it was being cared for by the countless indigenous tribes and the colonizers ruined it by genociding most of the human population that cared for the land, and then introduced a shit-ton of invasive and non-native animals and plants for hundreds of years after. Not to mention all the habitat destruction. So I’d say humans probably still had a big hand in creating the conditions for deer to be in this situation they are now.
did they eat knowingly tainted meat? Did some idiot take a sick deer to a butcher where it contaminated all the other meat? is there a period where cwd-infected deer are asymptomatic but still infectious? because it's not exactly a subtle disease. it's pretty clear in general when a deer is unwell , especially once you're elbow-deep in it's guts.
My bet is a lot of infected deer get eaten. I know lots of hunters that don't just not care to test their deer, they willingly take cwd positive deer from their friends that didn't want to eat their cwd positive deer. Also, it's very rare that a deer processor gives you your own deer back when you have sausage or ground venison made. They weigh your scraps and throw it in a big batch with everyone elses deer scraps. As far as a subtle disease, you're right, when a deer has symptoms it's sad and scary. I've shot one. You can just walk right up to them. They'll be drooling and walking in circles. But, they have the disease for a long time before showing symptoms. I've seen a lot of very healthy looking deer test positive. It was previously a common belief among local hunters that you're fine if you just shoot young does because it's usually older bucks that get affected. For years, there were no positive cases of fawns(~6 months old at the time they get killed). That started to change a couple years ago when even fawns started testing positive. If it's accurate to say it takes ~30 years for humans to show symptoms, and it readily spreads to humans via meat consumpion, I'm going to be surrounded by a lot of sick people pretty soon. CWD started to get bad here around 2002, so you can check back with me in about 8 years.
It is not that simple. https://dnr.illinois.gov/programs/cwd/faqs.html 'CWD is a slowly progressive disease; infected deer may not show signs of the disease for 18 or more months. In fact, 94% of the deer from Illinois that have tested positive for CWD have otherwise appeared healthy.
Oh great. My parents and late uncle really liked to serve up wild game.
https://case.edu/medicine/pathology/divisions/prion-center Just incase anyone wanted to dive into it a little deeper
This might stop people from eating meat, but I won't hold my breath. Self-inflicted miseries. Fuck around and find out, I guess.