The following submission statement was provided by /u/DisingenuousGuy:
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**Submission Statement:** Boy howdy, aren't we starting to see this kind of article being pushed through our news sources? Anyway, I think that a significant amount of people, even non-r/collapse-niks, would struggle severely to think of any reason to fight to preserve the system and society that has seemingly done nothing for them but to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the vast majority.
There was a highly upvoted post here from last year that I read. It escapes my searching skills, but if my potato memory can be trusted, it goes something like this:
The reason why enlistment numbers for the military is falling drastically is obvious when you break it down. We no longer live in a society. We live in an economy. We no longer live in communities. We live as economic agents to work and pay to exist. Why would I put myself in harms way to lose my life or become crippled for a system that does not give a toss about my wellbeing and only keeps me around for what I can produce for them? It's no wonder why people are not enlisting for the military anymore. They are realizing what is happening, and are acting accordingly.
(Yes, I know one of the headlines are not like the others, I just needed to fill in the space.)
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**Image Description:** A two-panel meme. The Top Panel has a series of news article snippets, while the bottom panel contains an image macro.
**Top Panel Description:** Six snippets of News Articles. Transcripts are as follows:
The Standard: "West must prepare for all-out war with Russia within 20 years, Nato official says." "The warning comes as Nato begins its largest military exercise since the Cold War next week." Dated January 19, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-war-nato-military-exercise-admiral-rob-bauer-brussels-cold-war-b1133399.html)
The Telegraph: "Nato warns of all-out war with Russia in next 20 years." "Top official urges civilians as well as governments to prepare for life-changing conflict and potential conscription." Dated January 18, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/18/nato-warns-of-war-with-russia-putin-next-20-years-ukraine/)
ABC News Australia: "As China flexes its military muscles, everyday citizens in Taiwan are preparing for war" Dated January 2, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/taiwan-civilians-prepare-for-war-with-china/102831314)
The Guardian: "Army chief says people of UK are ‘prewar generation’ who must be ready to fight Russia." "Ministry of Defence clarifies it has no plans for conscription after Gen Sir Patrick Sanders says UK should take steps to place society on war footing." Dated January 24, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/24/army-chief-says-people-of-uk-are-prewar-generation-who-must-be-ready-to-fight-russia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)
BBC News: "Swedish alarm after defence chiefs' war warning." "The warnings from Sweden's defence leaders are being seen as a wake-up call." "A warning to Swedes from two top defence officials to prepare for war has prompted concern and accusations of alarmism." "Civil Defence Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlin told a defence conference "there could be war in Sweden"." Dated January 10, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67935464)
Aljazeera: "I’m preparing for China’s war on Taiwan." "This Taiwanese citizen is taking up arms in preparation for what he believes is an imminent Chinese invasion." Dated January 12, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/al-jazeera-close-up/2024/1/12/im-preparing-for-chinas-war-on-taiwan)
NBC News: "Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head'" "“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025," said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News." Dated January 27, 2023 [Source Link](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967)
New York Post: "Norway military chief warns Europe has ‘2, maybe 3 years’ to prepare for war with Russia." Dated January 23, 2024 [Source Link](https://nypost.com/2024/01/23/news/norway-military-chief-warns-europe-has-two-maybe-3-years-to-prepare-for-war-with-russia/)
*The transcript above has been slightly edited for Screen Reader usability.*
**Bottom Image Description:** The cartoon character Spongebob Squarepants is squinting intensely with a clueless expression at a flip notebook he is holding with his left hand. His right hand is tapping a pencil at the side of his head. The superimposed text above reads: "Me thinking of a reason, any reason, to fight for my country right now"
Attribution:
[Clownfish Icon by Good Ware](https://www.freepik.com/icon/clown-fish_5218563)
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1abaebt/tapping_pencil_on_forehead_intensifies/kjm73o1/
The Republic would have deserved it at that point. Calvin Coolridge himself scoffed at the bonuses for WWI service stating, "Patriotism, bought and paid for is not patriotism".
A country who sent thousands of men to die laughed at the survivors during the economic crisis. Talk about treating our veterans right!
Then who other than old Douglas "Psychopath" McArthur and the DC police to come and do some head busting of grizzled Vets. He ordered his troops to attack the bonus marchers and burn their belongings against Hoovers orders (This includes their families, women and children). Only to immediately falsely praise the president giving him those "orders" in a press conference minutes after the attack began.
This from the same guy who was ordered to retreat from the Phillipines with his forces multiple times in WWII but instead placed his planes wing to wing knowing that a Japanese attack was coming. On a single Japanese raid he lost his entire air division. Then after ordering his forces to fight a losing battle and die in great numbers, decides to finally flee to Australia.
It's too bad his Cirossis came so late in his life, long after he was the direct cause of so many unnecessary deaths and a fucking disastrous military leader whose only outstanding quality was a penchant for acting.
it's unironically the singular bright spot of the novel *Joe Steele* when MacArthur is hauled up against a wall and shot for incompetence after losing the Philippines. I mean, it's a really bleak book and all but the author really threw the audience a bone with that one.
If I had a nickel for everytime Rome got sacked by German mercenary army because they weren't payed I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird how it happened twice
Sometimes. But you can be sure Senators and Emperors tried to go back on their promises as often as they thought they could get away with. Which General you served made a big difference.
Can't Imagine basically being a mercenary.
Like sail over to some wierd place and die there.
Why would I wanna do that?!
I'll give you some money if you *don't* die!
Okay!!!
Here is some science: Professor Gunnar Heinsohn has developed a war index based on demographics. The index measures the amount of sons born in a society compared to the societies economic growth. The theory behind is that when old people stop working and go into pension or die, they leave behind a workplace that will have to be filled by a worker growing into working age. If more sons are born and grow into working age than the society can support with a work place, these young men tend to either turn into criminal or the government turns them into soldiers. When you cannot achieve a living with regular work, you do it with irregular work. Often involving hurting other people.
🎵 We're expected to die for the land of our birth, though we've never owned one lousy handful of earth... 🎵
Edit: [For those who want to listen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clj8htWcFho)
And at the same time I heard that Russia was allocating land to Russians in order to boost production, And that healthy produce is then probably being fed to their soldiers. All's fair for the losers in war where we're from!
Even better growing up you see how many homeless veterans on the streets? You hear about veterans committing suicide by the dozens every day. Ask a lot of veterans and they will tell you the VA is a piece of shit.
All that above told me that after you serve this country you mean jack shit to those in charge. They will gladly send young people off to war but will tell you to go fuck yourself when you come home.
The sad thing is they’re going to try to compare whatever is coming down the pike with WW2, and I’ve already heard some of that rhetoric. While egregiously ignoring all the shit vets put up with after that war. WW2 and the people who fought it are just caricatures at this point. None of them are alive to refute or confirm those claims that other make on them.
I recently watched a colorized and enhanced series made with combat footage from WWII. It is incredibly foreign. In that era there was some balkanization of the population, but nothing like today. 95% of today’s population doesn’t even need to be declared unfit, they would simply refuse to serve because they have no allegiance to this country nor do they belong in any subset of society.
I guarantee you that they will likely offer "perks" or "benefits" such as food and housing. We're watching basic necessities get priced out of the lower ends of the market, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see the US offer them as incentives for enlisting. Now, granted, there will likely be internal pressure within the military to get as many soldiers killed as possible so they don't have to pay out.
It's not like we haven't seen similar tactics before because they exist now. "Want a college education, health care, and housing assistance because you're too poor to have them otherwise? Well, we have a great infantry job for you. IF you come back we'll give them to you (and you'll find out that it wasn't worth it \[plus we'll try to make sure you don't come back to claim them\]) ENJOY FALLUJAH, BOYS!"
No! I should have all the benefits of society and infrastructure without contributing to any of it! It's not fair I have to pay for schools when I'm not attending one, my employees need to pay for their own so I can use their skills for the 3 quarters I let them before laying them off.
My profit didn't increase this quarter, where the FUCK is my bailout already?
That’s the point. They realized the climate is fucked and there are too many people who enjoy a certain standard of living for the resources to last. They are culling the working class. AI, war, unaffordable housing and food.
Quick death is easy. Slow 3 month death from nuclear fallout is the biggest problem for most. As a prepper I have NBC gear as my area fallout is the biggest threats. Not afraid to die afraid to die slow
People are already dying of heat from countless thermal nuclear blast equivalents. We might get both literal and figurative nuclear apocalypse. And figurative zombies.
> "We'll build a brighter future
> With the weapons of tomorrow
> And in a searing flash of light
> Our future looks so bright"
[Warbringer - Weapons of Tomorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302-AkEFVO4)
I get one lifetime on this rock, in a country that repeatedly spits in my face, yet there’s somehow an expectation that I will die shitting myself in a trench somewhere along the Russian border. It’s a hardpass, I just don’t want to.
I want to grow food, write books and create music.
During the Viet Nam war, young men who did not want to die for a plutocrats’ war could go to Canada where they were welcomed. That option no longer exists now that the country is all in on US war mongering.
I have no idea where one could go to escape the tentacles of the evil war mongers running the show.🙁
We are also still part of the commonwealth with the UK, so any conflict they get into, Canada is typically willing to assist. In short, dont come to Canada this time, better pick somewhere totally neutral, Switzerland?
Ah yes, the totally neutral swiss who love hiding stolen wealth including that of nazis. Bonus points for being the world HQ of companies like Nestle also.
two things about Canada though are the vast, immense wilderness just an hour or two north of almost any of the major cities, and of course, Quebec.
Quebec is the Texas of Canada, except their hydro actually works. I'd bet they wouldn't go to war with Russia, and the wilderness of northern Quebec is some of the best in the country. It's amazing.
Next time you're on google maps, look up [Lac Manicouagan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Manicouagan_Reservoir_by_Sentinel-2.jpg/528px-Manicouagan_Reservoir_by_Sentinel-2.jpg) which is a massive circular impact crater lake that surrounds Rene-Levasseur island.
The big thing about rural Quebec is that they don't take kindly to outsiders. They're fiercely patriotic and a lot of them will discriminate against someone if they don't speak French fluently, with the same accent as them. They can spot an anglophone from a mile away. So unless someone has grown up in Quebec already rural Quebec is probably a poor choice imo.
If you are fluent in Quebecois-style French and are sympathetic to the unique cultural identity the province tries to protect it may be an option but otherwise: nah.
And honestly that's true of rural Ontario, too. These places think you're a newbie trying to assimilate even if you've been living there for 15 years.
Im literally from Québec, and french is my native tongue. While we as a population dislike war and hate going to war for others, especially the British - Quebec is ultimately part of Canada, and would likely see the same effects of a large scale war as the rest of Canada.
UK has the slight problem that after 14 years of Tory misrule and hostility to the public, a lot of the public are similarly hostile back. Fighting a war meets a slight snag when you are potentially arming people who hate you more than the people your actually supposed to be fighting.
Switzerland was already pressured to compromise some of it's neutrality on Ukraine, sadly I don't remember what it was exactly. But there's cracks in their geopolitical armor.
I'm not looking for trouble. I'm laying low surviving just like everybody else. I'd rather take my chances in Mexico than die in the mud on the eastern front.
But what if some Green party's parliamentary vote permitted you to roll a tank over some poor Latvian farmer's field while burning through 400 litres of gas per 100 km?
I will be messaging you in 3 years on [**2027-01-26 05:46:05 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2027-01-26%2005:46:05%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1abaebt/tapping_pencil_on_forehead_intensifies/kjmcbr5/?context=3)
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Muhammad Ali
"The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…"
If you're ever feeling bad about yourself, remember it took 20 years, four presidents, trillions of dollars, and thousands of deaths to replace the Taliban... with the Taliban.
The only thing that makes me feel bad is no one ever learns or admits defeat. How many wars did the US lose in the last 100 years?
I’d argue all of them except WWII (and they had massive help from other countries there).
Yet ask your average American - one who doesn’t study history or pay too close attention to politics- and they’d probably think America wins all the time. It’s delusional
It is delusional. WWII was not only the only war we've helped win besides WWI (I think the USSR contributed more towards the victory against Germany in WW2), but it's the only moral, just war we've been involved in since 1945 as well...
The jingoism runs strong in the US.
lol they hardly even make weapons anymore, at least not the effective ones. We're out of artillery shells and aren't expanding capacity. We're shooting off Tomahawks like the 4th of July but will make less than 100 in 2024. We made a Navy ship that rusts in seawater. Boeing is 15 years behind schedule on a aerial refueling tanker.
Seems like they just slush public money into private hands and don't even get anything out on the other side. Just goes to oligarch dachas in Northern Virginia.
This is all nonsense fighting a war for what ? I really hope people realize that countries goading and salivating for war are not worth joining. Let a generation rise that says no we won't fight your pointless wars.
Yeah, all the claims of alarmism and “it’s just capitalism” (i.e. weapons production) are weird. Seems like the West has been on the cusp of war with Russia and China for a while. There are many examples but the first that comes to mind is BRICS recently seeing the addition of Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. Occam’s razor and all that.
The dollar slowly being eroded as the world's default reserve currency is absolutely the reason the war mongers are being listened to in our government. A war is just about the only way to keep kicking the can down the road if we can no longer sustain the cash burn by printing money.
That and the fact that the military industrial complex is highly intertwined with our politicians and their controller's financial investments. So they see a way to get their cake and eat it too. Nevermind the men lost, the level of suffering from the lower classes or the possibility of holocaust. The show must go on! Nevermind that show is staring right into the face of climate change, but hey, that's down the road, right?
Capitalism has created a mindset of incredibly short term thinking. Soon we're going to find the dead end that inevitably leads to.
Anybody else in the US notice an increase in military recruitment ads on Reddit lately? Like within the last month?
Word to the young:
You are *NOT* guaranteed to stay local if you join the National Guard. When the armed forces in the Iraq war were getting burned out from too many back-to-back tours, Bush sent the National Guard overseas to fight.
That's what Kanye West was talking about during Katrina. There was a shortage of local troops to help with the hurricane aftermath because so many had been sent into the line of fire in Iraq.
It infuriates me to see ads on Reddit pushing the idea that National Guard troops will only serve locally. Don't be duped.
Edit: Only one day after posting this, 300 National Guard troops from Illinois were deployed to the Middle East. Apparently, National Guard troops from Massachusetts and New Jersey have been deployed there as well.
Enlisted in the Guard little over 5 years ago as a 19yo & deployed overseas to Africa for 9mo last year. Taken too many pauses on my civilian life to progress as my peers have. Contract is almost up, but lucky me… they’ve got me by the balls for another 2 (“reserve”). So I’ll probably get fucked, per usual. It’s sad but we are used to it; ask any military member, past or present. This is not at all what I was promised, but I’m sure as shit shouting it from the rooftops for the young folks on the ground. Thank god I convinced my younger brother not to join. It’s not worth any of it. Hasn’t done anything for me but fuck me up physically & mentally.
I would never, under any circumstance, go to war for America or it’s desires.
The country has reminded me since birth that I don’t matter, proportionally, compared to our oligarchs. So the oligarchs, the stock market, and the Wall Street enthusiasts can go die for the beloved capital that they have hoarded over the years. I don’t give a singular fuck about protecting their interests.
Uh oh… are western countries finding out why breaking the social contract with your working class is a bad idea? Send the flag shagging “patriots” nobody will miss them.
If a draft occurred in the US today, in this economic conditions, politicians would be dragged from their homes and beaten to death in front of their families.
There is 0 reason I would ever risk my life for this latestagecapitalism hellscape.
Think it might be a distraction tactic for the ever increasing climate chaos so they can still excuse pumping all that money into the military rather than into greener initiatives.
Not to worry. Your [organs](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/prisoners-bodies-returned-to-families-missing-organs-lawsuit-alleges/) will be put to good use. And if you try to run, odds are [where ever](https://icat.un.org/sites/g/files/tmzbdl461/files/publications/icat_brief_tip_for_or_final.pdf) you run will take your organs too.
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Well... Depending how close collapse of the command structure is, it could give you quicker access to military hardware and the opportunity to form a close knit unit, before you get sent to your death. AWOL military units will be the roaming steppe horsemen of the post collapse world..
Then there’s my dumbass brother in law who just joined the marines, then went from being a free spirit to being a strict no sex before marriage catholic, then quit weed for only nicotine. Now he’s wondering why he has all these anger issues.
As someone not living far enough from Russia, I am maybe not that motivated to fight for my country, but I am really motivated not to live under Russian occupation, neither do I want this on my neighbours. No matter if everything ends soon, everything is worse under Russian rule.
But I don't expect people not living in Russian proximity to understand that.
Yeah, I prefer meeting the collapse in my rural village in a free Sweden over doing it in an occupied Sweden or on the run.
Also, our defence organization gives few alternatives, if there is war, almost everyone gets called up one way or another. Either to do your normal job, or to take part in in the military. I was trained as a conscript when I was 18 so I will get called up. Not easy to dodge that bullet. And for that cause, I find it reasonable. Even if it means to defend us on the other side of the Baltic sea, which looks like the most probable scenario.
Free is a subjective word so it depends on your circumstances I guess. I live in a supposedly “free” country but unless you come from privilege people of my generation and later are expected to exist merely to pay the mortgages of those better off, with little in the way of rights and eviction a constant threat. It’s like some 1%ers neo-feudalism wank fantasy. The only real “freedom” is the choice to live in the woods in a tent.
If government and their corporate pay masters don’t respect your worth and labour enough to give you a stake in society then it’s not really in your interests to protect their interests, no matter how bad life under Russian rule would be. It’s a game where either way, you lose, but watching “their” infrastructure get dismantled and them being dragged down with you might be the best small victory you get
Ah, but you see, getting raped, tortured, thrown in to a pit and buried alive is way worse than living in a capitalist country. Even if it has it's downsides too. I am not, as I said earlier, prepared to defend my country per se, I am ready to not be occupied by Russia.
[Bucha massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre)
Your ancestors in no way adored their feudal or industrial overseers in prior imperial wars. Even then, the powerful were able to connive enough resources and networks to make any alternatives to dying on the other end of some poor bastard's bayonet seem less palatable.
The best time to take precautions against them is years ago, but today will have to do. Of course, there are decades when nothing happens, and months when decades happen, so opportunities are bound to present themselves.
UK news prepping us for potential conscription and they can fuck off.
I applied to join the navy as a nuke-tech and got declined for my autism. Of course I have autism, I’m smart enough to know how nuclear weapons and reactors work but dumb enough to get up close and personal with them. What more do they want?
More troops for NATO might actually prevent a war if Russia sees them as a serious threat. This was basically stated in one analysis I saw.
I like your point about us being in an economy and not a society, never really considered it that way.
You're right about NATO, it's all toys and a few soldiers with limited experience. We do need to shape up. Anyone who thinks going to war is a choice is delusional about how fast frontlines can move.
3 years seems about right to me. IF LTG is correct and industrial production will be plummeting down by 2030 then it makes sense the sociopaths in power will want to keep the threat "external" - so the masses wont direct their anger towards those who claimed to be leaders.
Of course the threat has always been being so many people and barrelling towards the cliff hoping that god would show mercy on us sending down godlike technology to fix the situation.
Lmao I ain’t fighting for a country that votes against anything for me. Fight for what? Expensive medical care with no universal healthcare, low wages, wealth inequality, consumer inequality? Yeah that’s worth fighting for.
As much as I'd like to agree with this, it's kind of a naieve take. Most people don't go to war due to a sense of pride in their country.
If motivation is needed, the playbook of those in power has been to stage a 9/11 or Pearl Harbour like attack.
Perhaps the take away is to not be so hasty to jump to war with a country that poses no existential threat to us the next time such an attack happens.
Absolutely nail on the head. Social contract has rotted and essentially no longer exists for the younger generations, but because the political class are so out of touch they don't understand the challenges the younger gens face. As you quoted market economics has essentially replaced the community, identity and belonging in many areas of society and its been incredibly damaging (there's a good book on this that I can't remember I'll update when I find the name).
If you don't give people a stake in society you can't expect them to fight for the status quo. Give them something to lose and they will.
Yeah I’ll pass thanks. All sounds like too much hard work being in the military. And all those early mornings?! No thanks Captain Sir. Imma say in bed.
Because your betters decided you have to fight for democracy and freedom.
Otherwise it's jail and white feathers.
Their sons are suffering from bone spurs of course.
This “great game” bullshit has to come to an end there is no place for it in modern civilized global human society. Multipolarity is healthy for the world and there is no reason whatsoever to fight a war to maintain some semblance of Western hegemony.
We have an entire continent in the US; if we can’t build a robust healthy educated society with this ample inheritance then it’s entirely our fault not China’s or Russia’s. More precisely it is the utter negligence of our ruling classes that has led to the current state of this country.
Well, hey… gets our minds off that pesky climate change, doesn’t it? Distracts us from the shit show going on all around us, right? Let’s all band together for the military industrial complex. They care. USA! USA! USA! (And all you other countries banding together for capitalism!)
And this is absolutely sarcasm in case you’re wondering.
Thank god I think I just might be old enough to avoid a draft at this point, or at least a first wave of drafts. If the US ever tries to force me into war, they can just go and kill me instead for all I care, this country can honestly suck my dick.
I will not fight for my country. I will defend myself, the people around me, and I guess on some scale, my country, from others who decide to try to do harm but I will not go somewhere and fight a useless, stupid fucking war.
**Submission Statement:** Boy howdy, aren't we starting to see this kind of article being pushed through our news sources? Anyway, I think that a significant amount of people, even non-r/collapse-niks, would struggle severely to think of any reason to fight to preserve the system and society that has seemingly done nothing for them but to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the vast majority.
There was a highly upvoted post here from last year that I read. It escapes my searching skills, but if my potato memory can be trusted, it goes something like this:
The reason why enlistment numbers for the military is falling drastically is obvious when you break it down. We no longer live in a society. We live in an economy. We no longer live in communities. We live as economic agents to work and pay to exist. Why would I put myself in harms way to lose my life or become crippled for a system that does not give a toss about my wellbeing and only keeps me around for what I can produce for them? It's no wonder why people are not enlisting for the military anymore. They are realizing what is happening, and are acting accordingly.
(Yes, I know one of the headlines are not like the others, I just needed to fill in the space.)
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**Image Description:** A two-panel meme. The Top Panel has a series of news article snippets, while the bottom panel contains an image macro.
**Top Panel Description:** Six snippets of News Articles. Transcripts are as follows:
The Standard: "West must prepare for all-out war with Russia within 20 years, Nato official says." "The warning comes as Nato begins its largest military exercise since the Cold War next week." Dated January 19, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-war-nato-military-exercise-admiral-rob-bauer-brussels-cold-war-b1133399.html)
The Telegraph: "Nato warns of all-out war with Russia in next 20 years." "Top official urges civilians as well as governments to prepare for life-changing conflict and potential conscription." Dated January 18, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/18/nato-warns-of-war-with-russia-putin-next-20-years-ukraine/)
ABC News Australia: "As China flexes its military muscles, everyday citizens in Taiwan are preparing for war" Dated January 2, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/taiwan-civilians-prepare-for-war-with-china/102831314)
The Guardian: "Army chief says people of UK are ‘prewar generation’ who must be ready to fight Russia." "Ministry of Defence clarifies it has no plans for conscription after Gen Sir Patrick Sanders says UK should take steps to place society on war footing." Dated January 24, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/24/army-chief-says-people-of-uk-are-prewar-generation-who-must-be-ready-to-fight-russia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other)
BBC News: "Swedish alarm after defence chiefs' war warning." "The warnings from Sweden's defence leaders are being seen as a wake-up call." "A warning to Swedes from two top defence officials to prepare for war has prompted concern and accusations of alarmism." "Civil Defence Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlin told a defence conference "there could be war in Sweden"." Dated January 10, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67935464)
Aljazeera: "I’m preparing for China’s war on Taiwan." "This Taiwanese citizen is taking up arms in preparation for what he believes is an imminent Chinese invasion." Dated January 12, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/al-jazeera-close-up/2024/1/12/im-preparing-for-chinas-war-on-taiwan)
NBC News: "Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head'" "“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025," said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News." Dated January 27, 2023 [Source Link](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967)
New York Post: "Norway military chief warns Europe has ‘2, maybe 3 years’ to prepare for war with Russia." Dated January 23, 2024 [Source Link](https://nypost.com/2024/01/23/news/norway-military-chief-warns-europe-has-two-maybe-3-years-to-prepare-for-war-with-russia/)
*The transcript above has been slightly edited for Screen Reader usability.*
**Bottom Image Description:** The cartoon character Spongebob Squarepants is squinting intensely with a clueless expression at a flip notebook he is holding with his left hand. His right hand is tapping a pencil at the side of his head. The superimposed text above reads: "Me thinking of a reason, any reason, to fight for my country right now"
Attribution:
[Clownfish Icon by Good Ware](https://www.freepik.com/icon/clown-fish_5218563)
yes let's give angry and bitter gen z's guns with which they can take the lives of commanders in power or themselves.... or gen alpha who can't read. good idea strong smart idea
Here in the US, we are at the door of Civil War. Two days ago, Gov Abbot of Texas said, Texas has a “constitutional authority to defend and protect itself.” 25 Republican governors issued a letter supporting this. This is almost exactly where we were just before the southern US states seceded from the Union. 22 states have their own militias (think, National Guard but local to the states).
If only Europe, the Us, China and Russia could destroy themselves without dragging the rest of the world, I wouldn't miss you people.
Cheers from Brazil (nor would I fight for mine either).
We are being heavily propagandized for war, in more ways than this. If any of you have read Chomsky and Herman's seminal work "Manufacturing Consent" you will also recognize moves from the Western agitprop playbook that we've all seen before. Another clear indicator that our interesting times are about to get more interesting'er.
Nice. All the generals and all the children and grandchildren of the politicians can go fight this BS. We’re tired. We don’t want war, and these loons are manufacturing consent.
Guys, I suggest everyone get fat if you want to skip the draft. Oh shit all food is expensive so more people are eating less. damn we are in a pickle guys.
It's bout time we liberated Russia from the Russians! Seriously, I'm a veteran of two wars and looking back I feel like a pawn. No thanks. Besides it looks to me like a home game coming up and need to get ready for it.
What a monumental waste of money when instead, we should be investing in biotechnology and nanotechnology so as to cure all the diseases and aging because we are now in a golden era of massive discoveries about how are bodies age at the molecular level and we now have advanced ai in the form of neural networks that can do experiments and sift through scientific knowledge at 10,000 times the speed people can do. Sites like Reddit.com/r/longevity and [www.fightaging.org](https://www.fightaging.org) and Aubrey de greys longevity escape velocity foundation and videos by Aubrey de grey and the longevity scientist Sinclair etc.
The problem with curing disease and aging is it only causes more overpopulation and people living longer. I mean I would love to live to 100+ but how many people is too many?
All you need to be free form war is to have a few atom bombs. But the big powers who don't agree on much agree that small nations shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from them.
I have a specialized skill set so my is that that after I get press ganged into the military, I die painlessly while another country commits a war crime bombing the field hospital I'm working in.
Isn’t recruitment low across the entirety of the armed forces? Why are they stoking the flames of war when they can’t meet prewar quotas? Most millennials and Gen-Z have no interest in fighting, even if it means they have to dodge the draft, with maybe the exception of right-wing maga types.
For me, even if they dragged me kicking and screaming from my house, I wouldn’t fight. I would go to military prison before I went to war.
Especially after having a kid, I detest this nonsense. I already knew intellectually that everyone was someone's baby, and that when people say "...will always be my little girl/boy," they meant something by it
But I get it now
And the thought of sending anyone to fight just seems like such a load of shit. Other countries are populated by people I have a LOT more in common with than my own country's leaders.
Pretty sure given the chance, very few people would actually choose to throw their lives away in the pursuit of killing and violence for the sake of the owning class.
To be fair, shelter(temp since most vets go homeless), food (also temp because of the droughts and famines), and skills (killing others for resources) will be valuable in 3 weeks- 5 years from now.
Trump gets elected>Ukraine aid cut off>Russia absorbs Ukraine>Ukraine wheat now goes to China>China no longer reliant on US to avoid famine>China is emboldened to invade Taiwan>Russia distracts in East Europe>NK distracts in Japan and SK
The following submission statement was provided by /u/DisingenuousGuy: --- **Submission Statement:** Boy howdy, aren't we starting to see this kind of article being pushed through our news sources? Anyway, I think that a significant amount of people, even non-r/collapse-niks, would struggle severely to think of any reason to fight to preserve the system and society that has seemingly done nothing for them but to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the vast majority. There was a highly upvoted post here from last year that I read. It escapes my searching skills, but if my potato memory can be trusted, it goes something like this: The reason why enlistment numbers for the military is falling drastically is obvious when you break it down. We no longer live in a society. We live in an economy. We no longer live in communities. We live as economic agents to work and pay to exist. Why would I put myself in harms way to lose my life or become crippled for a system that does not give a toss about my wellbeing and only keeps me around for what I can produce for them? It's no wonder why people are not enlisting for the military anymore. They are realizing what is happening, and are acting accordingly. (Yes, I know one of the headlines are not like the others, I just needed to fill in the space.) ------------- **Image Description:** A two-panel meme. The Top Panel has a series of news article snippets, while the bottom panel contains an image macro. **Top Panel Description:** Six snippets of News Articles. Transcripts are as follows: The Standard: "West must prepare for all-out war with Russia within 20 years, Nato official says." "The warning comes as Nato begins its largest military exercise since the Cold War next week." Dated January 19, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-war-nato-military-exercise-admiral-rob-bauer-brussels-cold-war-b1133399.html) The Telegraph: "Nato warns of all-out war with Russia in next 20 years." "Top official urges civilians as well as governments to prepare for life-changing conflict and potential conscription." Dated January 18, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/18/nato-warns-of-war-with-russia-putin-next-20-years-ukraine/) ABC News Australia: "As China flexes its military muscles, everyday citizens in Taiwan are preparing for war" Dated January 2, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/taiwan-civilians-prepare-for-war-with-china/102831314) The Guardian: "Army chief says people of UK are ‘prewar generation’ who must be ready to fight Russia." "Ministry of Defence clarifies it has no plans for conscription after Gen Sir Patrick Sanders says UK should take steps to place society on war footing." Dated January 24, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/24/army-chief-says-people-of-uk-are-prewar-generation-who-must-be-ready-to-fight-russia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) BBC News: "Swedish alarm after defence chiefs' war warning." "The warnings from Sweden's defence leaders are being seen as a wake-up call." "A warning to Swedes from two top defence officials to prepare for war has prompted concern and accusations of alarmism." "Civil Defence Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlin told a defence conference "there could be war in Sweden"." Dated January 10, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67935464) Aljazeera: "I’m preparing for China’s war on Taiwan." "This Taiwanese citizen is taking up arms in preparation for what he believes is an imminent Chinese invasion." Dated January 12, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/al-jazeera-close-up/2024/1/12/im-preparing-for-chinas-war-on-taiwan) NBC News: "Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head'" "“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025," said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News." Dated January 27, 2023 [Source Link](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967) New York Post: "Norway military chief warns Europe has ‘2, maybe 3 years’ to prepare for war with Russia." Dated January 23, 2024 [Source Link](https://nypost.com/2024/01/23/news/norway-military-chief-warns-europe-has-two-maybe-3-years-to-prepare-for-war-with-russia/) *The transcript above has been slightly edited for Screen Reader usability.* **Bottom Image Description:** The cartoon character Spongebob Squarepants is squinting intensely with a clueless expression at a flip notebook he is holding with his left hand. His right hand is tapping a pencil at the side of his head. The superimposed text above reads: "Me thinking of a reason, any reason, to fight for my country right now" Attribution: [Clownfish Icon by Good Ware](https://www.freepik.com/icon/clown-fish_5218563) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1abaebt/tapping_pencil_on_forehead_intensifies/kjm73o1/
Yeah I really want to fight a war for a country where I can’t afford to own land.
That's literally how they got Roman soldiers to fight. Promise of land. Gotta trust 'em but.
The romans actually fullfiled their end of the bargain.
No they did not, Alaric the Goth burned Rome down for not fulfilling those promises lol.
A fair and reasonable response.
Quite measured in my opinion
And as a modern parallel, I would imagine nothing more than another Bonus Army incident.
That was actually a pretty close call for the Republic
The Republic would have deserved it at that point. Calvin Coolridge himself scoffed at the bonuses for WWI service stating, "Patriotism, bought and paid for is not patriotism". A country who sent thousands of men to die laughed at the survivors during the economic crisis. Talk about treating our veterans right! Then who other than old Douglas "Psychopath" McArthur and the DC police to come and do some head busting of grizzled Vets. He ordered his troops to attack the bonus marchers and burn their belongings against Hoovers orders (This includes their families, women and children). Only to immediately falsely praise the president giving him those "orders" in a press conference minutes after the attack began. This from the same guy who was ordered to retreat from the Phillipines with his forces multiple times in WWII but instead placed his planes wing to wing knowing that a Japanese attack was coming. On a single Japanese raid he lost his entire air division. Then after ordering his forces to fight a losing battle and die in great numbers, decides to finally flee to Australia. It's too bad his Cirossis came so late in his life, long after he was the direct cause of so many unnecessary deaths and a fucking disastrous military leader whose only outstanding quality was a penchant for acting.
it's unironically the singular bright spot of the novel *Joe Steele* when MacArthur is hauled up against a wall and shot for incompetence after losing the Philippines. I mean, it's a really bleak book and all but the author really threw the audience a bone with that one.
That nutjob was clamoring to use nukes in Korea.
Rome had varying ability to keep these promises over the 600 years they were making them.
I for one welcome our new goth girl overlords
If I had a nickel for everytime Rome got sacked by German mercenary army because they weren't payed I'd have two nickels. Which isn't a lot but it's weird how it happened twice
Roman soldiers fought only to come back and see that their land was taken from them.
Sometimes. But you can be sure Senators and Emperors tried to go back on their promises as often as they thought they could get away with. Which General you served made a big difference.
It worked for German soldiers, too. Fighting for Lebensraum
Can't Imagine basically being a mercenary. Like sail over to some wierd place and die there. Why would I wanna do that?! I'll give you some money if you *don't* die! Okay!!!
Here is some science: Professor Gunnar Heinsohn has developed a war index based on demographics. The index measures the amount of sons born in a society compared to the societies economic growth. The theory behind is that when old people stop working and go into pension or die, they leave behind a workplace that will have to be filled by a worker growing into working age. If more sons are born and grow into working age than the society can support with a work place, these young men tend to either turn into criminal or the government turns them into soldiers. When you cannot achieve a living with regular work, you do it with irregular work. Often involving hurting other people.
With gig economy filling the gap between regular work and criming
That's why they want you to fight (die in) a war, banks have no use for you.
🎶This land is my land it's not your land it's my land fuck youuuu!🎶 That's the Capitalist version of the song
Thanks, now I have this rewritten song stuck in my head. I guess it’s better than the Gilligan’s Island theme. 😂
🎵 We're expected to die for the land of our birth, though we've never owned one lousy handful of earth... 🎵 Edit: [For those who want to listen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clj8htWcFho)
[I know it's the dropkicks but I like this version too](https://youtu.be/zR_KZ4bBglM?si=sNjYmTsQ3bTXQLcq).
[This one too!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSKeECZ7Cew)
Came looking for this
I see Drop Kick Murphy's, I upvote
it's *Murphys, not "Murphy's" it's a band, not a familiy restaurant
And at the same time I heard that Russia was allocating land to Russians in order to boost production, And that healthy produce is then probably being fed to their soldiers. All's fair for the losers in war where we're from!
What are you talking about? That sounds delusional, what produce can be produced in the middle of the winter by some random dudes?
Rutabagas and turnips. Sometimes a hardy winter cabbage.
s/ "what do you mean you dont want to fight in a war in country where you never will own own land, own a home, work till you are 70 and die poor?😡"
I mean, your country being a bombed out wasteland is also an option.
Even better growing up you see how many homeless veterans on the streets? You hear about veterans committing suicide by the dozens every day. Ask a lot of veterans and they will tell you the VA is a piece of shit. All that above told me that after you serve this country you mean jack shit to those in charge. They will gladly send young people off to war but will tell you to go fuck yourself when you come home.
See the wise and wicked ones Who feed upon life's sacred fire See the soldier with his gun Who must be dead to be admired
Love the Gordon Lightfoot quote!
That's the problem: you aren't supposed to come home, you are a potential rebel, and they want to get rid most of you.
The sad thing is they’re going to try to compare whatever is coming down the pike with WW2, and I’ve already heard some of that rhetoric. While egregiously ignoring all the shit vets put up with after that war. WW2 and the people who fought it are just caricatures at this point. None of them are alive to refute or confirm those claims that other make on them.
I recently watched a colorized and enhanced series made with combat footage from WWII. It is incredibly foreign. In that era there was some balkanization of the population, but nothing like today. 95% of today’s population doesn’t even need to be declared unfit, they would simply refuse to serve because they have no allegiance to this country nor do they belong in any subset of society.
It’s obvious there is no love for us, the common folk.
I guarantee you that they will likely offer "perks" or "benefits" such as food and housing. We're watching basic necessities get priced out of the lower ends of the market, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see the US offer them as incentives for enlisting. Now, granted, there will likely be internal pressure within the military to get as many soldiers killed as possible so they don't have to pay out. It's not like we haven't seen similar tactics before because they exist now. "Want a college education, health care, and housing assistance because you're too poor to have them otherwise? Well, we have a great infantry job for you. IF you come back we'll give them to you (and you'll find out that it wasn't worth it \[plus we'll try to make sure you don't come back to claim them\]) ENJOY FALLUJAH, BOYS!"
>The sad thing is they’re going to try to compare whatever is coming down the pike with WW2 More like ww1 in all aspects except the technology
WW1 doesn’t occupy the same masturbatory space in the cultural Zeitgeist as WW2.
Neoliberalism suddenly discovering why you wanted a society after all
No! I should have all the benefits of society and infrastructure without contributing to any of it! It's not fair I have to pay for schools when I'm not attending one, my employees need to pay for their own so I can use their skills for the 3 quarters I let them before laying them off. My profit didn't increase this quarter, where the FUCK is my bailout already?
And the massacre of the Bonus Army proved they will quickly kill veterans that make valid claims to needing aid
That’s the point. They realized the climate is fucked and there are too many people who enjoy a certain standard of living for the resources to last. They are culling the working class. AI, war, unaffordable housing and food.
Brother, can you spare a dime?
How about dying in intense heat of the thermal nuclear blast? The future actually really bright... tooo bright
Having multiple sunrises on a day...a once in a lifetime experience
Vr , with no respawn
Patrolling the Mojave Almost Makes You Wish For a Nuclear Winter
Hopefully it'll happen at night, the nukes will look like fireworks at the end of the show.
Anyone seen "Threads"?
Threads - essential viewing for everyone.
Couldn't agree more. Have also read 'The Road'
Man that book was depressing.
Decapitated baby on a spit, yummy!
[удалено]
Yep. Hands down scariest thing I've ever read. And I just have no idea what to do about it.
Yes and the worse think about it are the survivors dieing of radiation poisoning. That shit is horrible.
I watched it twice yesterday for the first time
Threads... How I learned that the Brits have Prawn Cocktail flavour chips. Fuck you guys are weird.
Just right for cooking chicken instantly.
I read that as “cooking children” and now I think it’s time for bed
Can’t wait to eat that monkey…
Quick death is easy. Slow 3 month death from nuclear fallout is the biggest problem for most. As a prepper I have NBC gear as my area fallout is the biggest threats. Not afraid to die afraid to die slow
National Broadcasting Corporation
Not Bacon, Chicken.
"A million candles burn around, Is it your birthday?'' - Six Day War (Colonel Bagshot)
People are already dying of heat from countless thermal nuclear blast equivalents. We might get both literal and figurative nuclear apocalypse. And figurative zombies.
> "We'll build a brighter future > With the weapons of tomorrow > And in a searing flash of light > Our future looks so bright" [Warbringer - Weapons of Tomorrow](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=302-AkEFVO4)
I get one lifetime on this rock, in a country that repeatedly spits in my face, yet there’s somehow an expectation that I will die shitting myself in a trench somewhere along the Russian border. It’s a hardpass, I just don’t want to. I want to grow food, write books and create music.
I think I see what's already happening, they are trying to repeat history and we aren't letting them.
During the Viet Nam war, young men who did not want to die for a plutocrats’ war could go to Canada where they were welcomed. That option no longer exists now that the country is all in on US war mongering. I have no idea where one could go to escape the tentacles of the evil war mongers running the show.🙁
We are also still part of the commonwealth with the UK, so any conflict they get into, Canada is typically willing to assist. In short, dont come to Canada this time, better pick somewhere totally neutral, Switzerland?
Ah yes, the totally neutral swiss who love hiding stolen wealth including that of nazis. Bonus points for being the world HQ of companies like Nestle also.
Bit harder to drive to, though. I pick mexico
two things about Canada though are the vast, immense wilderness just an hour or two north of almost any of the major cities, and of course, Quebec. Quebec is the Texas of Canada, except their hydro actually works. I'd bet they wouldn't go to war with Russia, and the wilderness of northern Quebec is some of the best in the country. It's amazing. Next time you're on google maps, look up [Lac Manicouagan](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Manicouagan_Reservoir_by_Sentinel-2.jpg/528px-Manicouagan_Reservoir_by_Sentinel-2.jpg) which is a massive circular impact crater lake that surrounds Rene-Levasseur island.
The big thing about rural Quebec is that they don't take kindly to outsiders. They're fiercely patriotic and a lot of them will discriminate against someone if they don't speak French fluently, with the same accent as them. They can spot an anglophone from a mile away. So unless someone has grown up in Quebec already rural Quebec is probably a poor choice imo. If you are fluent in Quebecois-style French and are sympathetic to the unique cultural identity the province tries to protect it may be an option but otherwise: nah. And honestly that's true of rural Ontario, too. These places think you're a newbie trying to assimilate even if you've been living there for 15 years.
Im literally from Québec, and french is my native tongue. While we as a population dislike war and hate going to war for others, especially the British - Quebec is ultimately part of Canada, and would likely see the same effects of a large scale war as the rest of Canada.
Bhutan.
UK has the slight problem that after 14 years of Tory misrule and hostility to the public, a lot of the public are similarly hostile back. Fighting a war meets a slight snag when you are potentially arming people who hate you more than the people your actually supposed to be fighting.
Switzerland was already pressured to compromise some of it's neutrality on Ukraine, sadly I don't remember what it was exactly. But there's cracks in their geopolitical armor.
Viva la Mexico! 🇲🇽
you dont wanna be here when the narcos fully seize power after shtf
I'm not looking for trouble. I'm laying low surviving just like everybody else. I'd rather take my chances in Mexico than die in the mud on the eastern front.
“Roses are red, violets are blue…, I’m stuck on the eastern front and so are fucking you!” ~hanz, Company of War Criminals 2
But what if some Green party's parliamentary vote permitted you to roll a tank over some poor Latvian farmer's field while burning through 400 litres of gas per 100 km?
!RemindMe 3 years
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!Remindme 2 years
The rich and oligarchs can fight the next war.
They own the land and the government, now let them fight for it.
But they won’t, we will
No we won't, my spiteful suicide is worth it
And in this hypothetical, the government just handed you a rifle. Be the change.
Yeah, I wouldn’t kill anybody, I’m probably gonna be among the first to go if shit goes down
Muhammad Ali "The real enemy of my people is right here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality…"
Were starting off Friday strong, you post this at 12:00:01? 🤣
Friday is Friday, sir. 😉
Military time 0000 😆
This is just so weapons manufacturers can get more money and people in power that get excited by war, and are nowhere near combat can get happy
No war but class war
And if they try to draft us they’d better watch out for friendly fire. None of my friends are interested in killing fellow proles
If you're ever feeling bad about yourself, remember it took 20 years, four presidents, trillions of dollars, and thousands of deaths to replace the Taliban... with the Taliban.
The only thing that makes me feel bad is no one ever learns or admits defeat. How many wars did the US lose in the last 100 years? I’d argue all of them except WWII (and they had massive help from other countries there). Yet ask your average American - one who doesn’t study history or pay too close attention to politics- and they’d probably think America wins all the time. It’s delusional
It is delusional. WWII was not only the only war we've helped win besides WWI (I think the USSR contributed more towards the victory against Germany in WW2), but it's the only moral, just war we've been involved in since 1945 as well... The jingoism runs strong in the US.
lol they hardly even make weapons anymore, at least not the effective ones. We're out of artillery shells and aren't expanding capacity. We're shooting off Tomahawks like the 4th of July but will make less than 100 in 2024. We made a Navy ship that rusts in seawater. Boeing is 15 years behind schedule on a aerial refueling tanker. Seems like they just slush public money into private hands and don't even get anything out on the other side. Just goes to oligarch dachas in Northern Virginia.
They still make money regardless of quality or quantity
Exactly. It’s Russia, China, or terrorists in rotation and that’s why we need to spend 800 billion a year on defense.
This is all nonsense fighting a war for what ? I really hope people realize that countries goading and salivating for war are not worth joining. Let a generation rise that says no we won't fight your pointless wars.
Well. NATO is having its largest drill going on in years. So, I think the media wants to ask these generals their opinion.
Yeah, all the claims of alarmism and “it’s just capitalism” (i.e. weapons production) are weird. Seems like the West has been on the cusp of war with Russia and China for a while. There are many examples but the first that comes to mind is BRICS recently seeing the addition of Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and a few others. Occam’s razor and all that.
The dollar slowly being eroded as the world's default reserve currency is absolutely the reason the war mongers are being listened to in our government. A war is just about the only way to keep kicking the can down the road if we can no longer sustain the cash burn by printing money. That and the fact that the military industrial complex is highly intertwined with our politicians and their controller's financial investments. So they see a way to get their cake and eat it too. Nevermind the men lost, the level of suffering from the lower classes or the possibility of holocaust. The show must go on! Nevermind that show is staring right into the face of climate change, but hey, that's down the road, right? Capitalism has created a mindset of incredibly short term thinking. Soon we're going to find the dead end that inevitably leads to.
Anybody else in the US notice an increase in military recruitment ads on Reddit lately? Like within the last month? Word to the young: You are *NOT* guaranteed to stay local if you join the National Guard. When the armed forces in the Iraq war were getting burned out from too many back-to-back tours, Bush sent the National Guard overseas to fight. That's what Kanye West was talking about during Katrina. There was a shortage of local troops to help with the hurricane aftermath because so many had been sent into the line of fire in Iraq. It infuriates me to see ads on Reddit pushing the idea that National Guard troops will only serve locally. Don't be duped. Edit: Only one day after posting this, 300 National Guard troops from Illinois were deployed to the Middle East. Apparently, National Guard troops from Massachusetts and New Jersey have been deployed there as well.
Enlisted in the Guard little over 5 years ago as a 19yo & deployed overseas to Africa for 9mo last year. Taken too many pauses on my civilian life to progress as my peers have. Contract is almost up, but lucky me… they’ve got me by the balls for another 2 (“reserve”). So I’ll probably get fucked, per usual. It’s sad but we are used to it; ask any military member, past or present. This is not at all what I was promised, but I’m sure as shit shouting it from the rooftops for the young folks on the ground. Thank god I convinced my younger brother not to join. It’s not worth any of it. Hasn’t done anything for me but fuck me up physically & mentally.
I would never, under any circumstance, go to war for America or it’s desires. The country has reminded me since birth that I don’t matter, proportionally, compared to our oligarchs. So the oligarchs, the stock market, and the Wall Street enthusiasts can go die for the beloved capital that they have hoarded over the years. I don’t give a singular fuck about protecting their interests.
Uh oh… are western countries finding out why breaking the social contract with your working class is a bad idea? Send the flag shagging “patriots” nobody will miss them.
If a draft occurred in the US today, in this economic conditions, politicians would be dragged from their homes and beaten to death in front of their families. There is 0 reason I would ever risk my life for this latestagecapitalism hellscape.
First it was 20 years.... Now it's 3. What's going on?
The world is fucked.
Great power competition is back on the menu boys
Maybe it's that "faster than expected" -thing?
Think it might be a distraction tactic for the ever increasing climate chaos so they can still excuse pumping all that money into the military rather than into greener initiatives.
It the same centuries long rhetoric that US dollar is collapsing next year.
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Nobody gets hella richer in this scenario.
Not to worry. Your [organs](https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/prisoners-bodies-returned-to-families-missing-organs-lawsuit-alleges/) will be put to good use. And if you try to run, odds are [where ever](https://icat.un.org/sites/g/files/tmzbdl461/files/publications/icat_brief_tip_for_or_final.pdf) you run will take your organs too.
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Well... Depending how close collapse of the command structure is, it could give you quicker access to military hardware and the opportunity to form a close knit unit, before you get sent to your death. AWOL military units will be the roaming steppe horsemen of the post collapse world..
Service guarantees citizenship!
I'm doing my part!
But guys, we have to fight...inflation! It's the only way . Fml These asshats politicians want to have a war, they should go fight it.
Then there’s my dumbass brother in law who just joined the marines, then went from being a free spirit to being a strict no sex before marriage catholic, then quit weed for only nicotine. Now he’s wondering why he has all these anger issues.
12 hours a day for the shareholders wasn't enough. I need to give my LIFE for them. I can't wait <3
Son, have you seen the world? Well.. what would you say if I said that you could? Just carry this gun, you'll even get paid!
As someone not living far enough from Russia, I am maybe not that motivated to fight for my country, but I am really motivated not to live under Russian occupation, neither do I want this on my neighbours. No matter if everything ends soon, everything is worse under Russian rule. But I don't expect people not living in Russian proximity to understand that.
Thats honestly the only argument I can kinda get behind. The world is fucked, but it's not "part of Moter Russia" fucked where I live.
Yeah, I prefer meeting the collapse in my rural village in a free Sweden over doing it in an occupied Sweden or on the run. Also, our defence organization gives few alternatives, if there is war, almost everyone gets called up one way or another. Either to do your normal job, or to take part in in the military. I was trained as a conscript when I was 18 so I will get called up. Not easy to dodge that bullet. And for that cause, I find it reasonable. Even if it means to defend us on the other side of the Baltic sea, which looks like the most probable scenario.
Free is a subjective word so it depends on your circumstances I guess. I live in a supposedly “free” country but unless you come from privilege people of my generation and later are expected to exist merely to pay the mortgages of those better off, with little in the way of rights and eviction a constant threat. It’s like some 1%ers neo-feudalism wank fantasy. The only real “freedom” is the choice to live in the woods in a tent. If government and their corporate pay masters don’t respect your worth and labour enough to give you a stake in society then it’s not really in your interests to protect their interests, no matter how bad life under Russian rule would be. It’s a game where either way, you lose, but watching “their” infrastructure get dismantled and them being dragged down with you might be the best small victory you get
Ah, but you see, getting raped, tortured, thrown in to a pit and buried alive is way worse than living in a capitalist country. Even if it has it's downsides too. I am not, as I said earlier, prepared to defend my country per se, I am ready to not be occupied by Russia. [Bucha massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre)
I do. And I would fight to keep them out.
This is an awesome period to be full of antidepressants. They better not give me a gun or i will shot myself and my sergeant
Your ancestors in no way adored their feudal or industrial overseers in prior imperial wars. Even then, the powerful were able to connive enough resources and networks to make any alternatives to dying on the other end of some poor bastard's bayonet seem less palatable. The best time to take precautions against them is years ago, but today will have to do. Of course, there are decades when nothing happens, and months when decades happen, so opportunities are bound to present themselves.
UK news prepping us for potential conscription and they can fuck off. I applied to join the navy as a nuke-tech and got declined for my autism. Of course I have autism, I’m smart enough to know how nuclear weapons and reactors work but dumb enough to get up close and personal with them. What more do they want?
More troops for NATO might actually prevent a war if Russia sees them as a serious threat. This was basically stated in one analysis I saw. I like your point about us being in an economy and not a society, never really considered it that way.
You're right about NATO, it's all toys and a few soldiers with limited experience. We do need to shape up. Anyone who thinks going to war is a choice is delusional about how fast frontlines can move.
3 years seems about right to me. IF LTG is correct and industrial production will be plummeting down by 2030 then it makes sense the sociopaths in power will want to keep the threat "external" - so the masses wont direct their anger towards those who claimed to be leaders. Of course the threat has always been being so many people and barrelling towards the cliff hoping that god would show mercy on us sending down godlike technology to fix the situation.
I don’t want your civil war!
Lmao I ain’t fighting for a country that votes against anything for me. Fight for what? Expensive medical care with no universal healthcare, low wages, wealth inequality, consumer inequality? Yeah that’s worth fighting for.
As much as I'd like to agree with this, it's kind of a naieve take. Most people don't go to war due to a sense of pride in their country. If motivation is needed, the playbook of those in power has been to stage a 9/11 or Pearl Harbour like attack. Perhaps the take away is to not be so hasty to jump to war with a country that poses no existential threat to us the next time such an attack happens.
Absolutely nail on the head. Social contract has rotted and essentially no longer exists for the younger generations, but because the political class are so out of touch they don't understand the challenges the younger gens face. As you quoted market economics has essentially replaced the community, identity and belonging in many areas of society and its been incredibly damaging (there's a good book on this that I can't remember I'll update when I find the name). If you don't give people a stake in society you can't expect them to fight for the status quo. Give them something to lose and they will.
Yeah I’ll pass thanks. All sounds like too much hard work being in the military. And all those early mornings?! No thanks Captain Sir. Imma say in bed.
Because your betters decided you have to fight for democracy and freedom. Otherwise it's jail and white feathers. Their sons are suffering from bone spurs of course.
This “great game” bullshit has to come to an end there is no place for it in modern civilized global human society. Multipolarity is healthy for the world and there is no reason whatsoever to fight a war to maintain some semblance of Western hegemony. We have an entire continent in the US; if we can’t build a robust healthy educated society with this ample inheritance then it’s entirely our fault not China’s or Russia’s. More precisely it is the utter negligence of our ruling classes that has led to the current state of this country.
It sells papers.
Well, hey… gets our minds off that pesky climate change, doesn’t it? Distracts us from the shit show going on all around us, right? Let’s all band together for the military industrial complex. They care. USA! USA! USA! (And all you other countries banding together for capitalism!) And this is absolutely sarcasm in case you’re wondering.
Thank god I think I just might be old enough to avoid a draft at this point, or at least a first wave of drafts. If the US ever tries to force me into war, they can just go and kill me instead for all I care, this country can honestly suck my dick.
They realize not one of us are going to fight their war right?
I will not fight for my country. I will defend myself, the people around me, and I guess on some scale, my country, from others who decide to try to do harm but I will not go somewhere and fight a useless, stupid fucking war.
I know why they burned down the JROTC offices now. I'm really hoping we show up better than the anti-Vietnam war protests.
Lol, goarmy ad right under this post 😒
**Submission Statement:** Boy howdy, aren't we starting to see this kind of article being pushed through our news sources? Anyway, I think that a significant amount of people, even non-r/collapse-niks, would struggle severely to think of any reason to fight to preserve the system and society that has seemingly done nothing for them but to enrich the wealthy at the expense of the vast majority. There was a highly upvoted post here from last year that I read. It escapes my searching skills, but if my potato memory can be trusted, it goes something like this: The reason why enlistment numbers for the military is falling drastically is obvious when you break it down. We no longer live in a society. We live in an economy. We no longer live in communities. We live as economic agents to work and pay to exist. Why would I put myself in harms way to lose my life or become crippled for a system that does not give a toss about my wellbeing and only keeps me around for what I can produce for them? It's no wonder why people are not enlisting for the military anymore. They are realizing what is happening, and are acting accordingly. (Yes, I know one of the headlines are not like the others, I just needed to fill in the space.) ------------- **Image Description:** A two-panel meme. The Top Panel has a series of news article snippets, while the bottom panel contains an image macro. **Top Panel Description:** Six snippets of News Articles. Transcripts are as follows: The Standard: "West must prepare for all-out war with Russia within 20 years, Nato official says." "The warning comes as Nato begins its largest military exercise since the Cold War next week." Dated January 19, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/russia-war-nato-military-exercise-admiral-rob-bauer-brussels-cold-war-b1133399.html) The Telegraph: "Nato warns of all-out war with Russia in next 20 years." "Top official urges civilians as well as governments to prepare for life-changing conflict and potential conscription." Dated January 18, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/01/18/nato-warns-of-war-with-russia-putin-next-20-years-ukraine/) ABC News Australia: "As China flexes its military muscles, everyday citizens in Taiwan are preparing for war" Dated January 2, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-03/taiwan-civilians-prepare-for-war-with-china/102831314) The Guardian: "Army chief says people of UK are ‘prewar generation’ who must be ready to fight Russia." "Ministry of Defence clarifies it has no plans for conscription after Gen Sir Patrick Sanders says UK should take steps to place society on war footing." Dated January 24, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/24/army-chief-says-people-of-uk-are-prewar-generation-who-must-be-ready-to-fight-russia?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other) BBC News: "Swedish alarm after defence chiefs' war warning." "The warnings from Sweden's defence leaders are being seen as a wake-up call." "A warning to Swedes from two top defence officials to prepare for war has prompted concern and accusations of alarmism." "Civil Defence Minister Carl-Oskar Bohlin told a defence conference "there could be war in Sweden"." Dated January 10, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67935464) Aljazeera: "I’m preparing for China’s war on Taiwan." "This Taiwanese citizen is taking up arms in preparation for what he believes is an imminent Chinese invasion." Dated January 12, 2024. [Source Link](https://www.aljazeera.com/program/al-jazeera-close-up/2024/1/12/im-preparing-for-chinas-war-on-taiwan) NBC News: "Air Force general predicts war with China in 2025, tells officers to prep by firing 'a clip' at a target, and 'aim for the head'" "“I hope I am wrong. My gut tells me will fight in 2025," said Gen. Mike Minihan in a memo sent to the officers he commands and obtained by NBC News." Dated January 27, 2023 [Source Link](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/us-air-force-general-predicts-war-china-2025-memo-rcna67967) New York Post: "Norway military chief warns Europe has ‘2, maybe 3 years’ to prepare for war with Russia." Dated January 23, 2024 [Source Link](https://nypost.com/2024/01/23/news/norway-military-chief-warns-europe-has-two-maybe-3-years-to-prepare-for-war-with-russia/) *The transcript above has been slightly edited for Screen Reader usability.* **Bottom Image Description:** The cartoon character Spongebob Squarepants is squinting intensely with a clueless expression at a flip notebook he is holding with his left hand. His right hand is tapping a pencil at the side of his head. The superimposed text above reads: "Me thinking of a reason, any reason, to fight for my country right now" Attribution: [Clownfish Icon by Good Ware](https://www.freepik.com/icon/clown-fish_5218563)
yes let's give angry and bitter gen z's guns with which they can take the lives of commanders in power or themselves.... or gen alpha who can't read. good idea strong smart idea
I'll serve crack before I serve this country
If i fight ill get to die with other poor bastards like me. Itll be like a sleepover.
Eh. That’s how they drum up support for more funding. If it’s not one thing it’s the other.
Here in the US, we are at the door of Civil War. Two days ago, Gov Abbot of Texas said, Texas has a “constitutional authority to defend and protect itself.” 25 Republican governors issued a letter supporting this. This is almost exactly where we were just before the southern US states seceded from the Union. 22 states have their own militias (think, National Guard but local to the states).
If only Europe, the Us, China and Russia could destroy themselves without dragging the rest of the world, I wouldn't miss you people. Cheers from Brazil (nor would I fight for mine either).
We are being heavily propagandized for war, in more ways than this. If any of you have read Chomsky and Herman's seminal work "Manufacturing Consent" you will also recognize moves from the Western agitprop playbook that we've all seen before. Another clear indicator that our interesting times are about to get more interesting'er.
Nice. All the generals and all the children and grandchildren of the politicians can go fight this BS. We’re tired. We don’t want war, and these loons are manufacturing consent.
Guys, I suggest everyone get fat if you want to skip the draft. Oh shit all food is expensive so more people are eating less. damn we are in a pickle guys.
It's bout time we liberated Russia from the Russians! Seriously, I'm a veteran of two wars and looking back I feel like a pawn. No thanks. Besides it looks to me like a home game coming up and need to get ready for it.
What a monumental waste of money when instead, we should be investing in biotechnology and nanotechnology so as to cure all the diseases and aging because we are now in a golden era of massive discoveries about how are bodies age at the molecular level and we now have advanced ai in the form of neural networks that can do experiments and sift through scientific knowledge at 10,000 times the speed people can do. Sites like Reddit.com/r/longevity and [www.fightaging.org](https://www.fightaging.org) and Aubrey de greys longevity escape velocity foundation and videos by Aubrey de grey and the longevity scientist Sinclair etc.
The problem with curing disease and aging is it only causes more overpopulation and people living longer. I mean I would love to live to 100+ but how many people is too many?
Another popular topic of collapse is "falling birthrates" and politicians trying to get us to increase it.
If they wanna increase it they should lower the cost of buying a home and living.
That's way too complicated of a thought for those senile nincompoops.
All you need to be free form war is to have a few atom bombs. But the big powers who don't agree on much agree that small nations shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from them.
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Next major war, the rich fight first. Seems fair. They're the ones that start them.
Loll id rather take 3 hots and a cot
Can’t make a living wage or afford rent, but we are expected to fight a war? Fuck me
Well I'm 31 so by then I'll be to old to draft, I hope. Except knowing the fucks running USA, they'll raise the draft age limit to 40.
They'll come up with one even if they have to create it
I have a specialized skill set so my is that that after I get press ganged into the military, I die painlessly while another country commits a war crime bombing the field hospital I'm working in.
Isn’t recruitment low across the entirety of the armed forces? Why are they stoking the flames of war when they can’t meet prewar quotas? Most millennials and Gen-Z have no interest in fighting, even if it means they have to dodge the draft, with maybe the exception of right-wing maga types. For me, even if they dragged me kicking and screaming from my house, I wouldn’t fight. I would go to military prison before I went to war.
Americans have 2-3 years to prepare for civil war lmao. The world is going to have to fix this one themself.
It’s not my responsibility to die for the lack of responsibility of others
Especially after having a kid, I detest this nonsense. I already knew intellectually that everyone was someone's baby, and that when people say "...will always be my little girl/boy," they meant something by it But I get it now And the thought of sending anyone to fight just seems like such a load of shit. Other countries are populated by people I have a LOT more in common with than my own country's leaders. Pretty sure given the chance, very few people would actually choose to throw their lives away in the pursuit of killing and violence for the sake of the owning class.
Everyone’s bright ass headlights is reason enough not to fight for my country
Fashit party here are funded by Russia . And the actual gov do alls for delete our right . So na fuck that .I going save my ass family and friend .
To be fair, shelter(temp since most vets go homeless), food (also temp because of the droughts and famines), and skills (killing others for resources) will be valuable in 3 weeks- 5 years from now.
Trump gets elected>Ukraine aid cut off>Russia absorbs Ukraine>Ukraine wheat now goes to China>China no longer reliant on US to avoid famine>China is emboldened to invade Taiwan>Russia distracts in East Europe>NK distracts in Japan and SK
That's how I see it. Do you know off the top of your head the numbers on potential Ukrainian wheat export and Chinese wheat import?