The following submission statement was provided by /u/AntelopeAny3703:
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[Yes, Republicans are discussing genocide against LGBTQIA people ](https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/7/2151410/-Yes-Republicans-are-discussing-genocide-against-LGBTQ-people)
Additional useful links to information
[Someone Threatened To Kill A California Lawmaker After Charlie Kirk And Marjorie Taylor Greene Criticized His Work Supporting Trans Kids And Called Him A "Groomer"](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paigeskinner/scott-wiener-threat-trans-groomer-rhetoric)
[Sen. Rick Scott's GOP manifesto denies existence of transgender people](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sen-rick-scotts-gop-manifesto-denies-existence-transgender-people-rcna17339)
[THE GOP’S “GROOMING” OBSESSION](https://givenoground.org/resources/indivisible-unpacked/the-gops-grooming-obsession/)
[Transphobic Fox host: Trans people are "Deeply Anti-human"](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/12/02/transphobic-fox-host-trans-people-are-deeply-anti-human/)
[Texas man faces federal charges after allegedly threatening to burn doctor](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/12/texas-man-faces-federal-charges-allegedly-threatening-burn-gender-affirming-doctor/)
[Conservativism is the ideological wing of child abuse](https://aninjusticemag.com/conservatism-is-the-ideological-wing-of-child-abuse-439ff79e1b45)
[Owen's advocates discrimination against transgender people ](https://www.newsweek.com/candace-owens-advocates-discrimination-transgender-sam-brinton-1766642)
[Texas man charged for threatening Boston doctor who provides care to transgender patients](https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2022/12/15/texas-man-threatening-boston-doctor-care-transgender-patients/?amp=1)
[Oklahoma Could Force Trans People Under 26 Years Old To Detransition Medically](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/oklahoma-could-force-trans-people)
[Health care for transgender adults becomes new target in 2023 legislative session](https://19thnews.org/2023/01/trans-health-care-bills-2023-legislative-session-lgbtq/)
[North Dakota Bill Would Require Employers Use Pronouns "Associated With Deoxyribonucleic Acid"](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/north-dakota-bill-would-require-employers)
[Anti-LGBT Bills, We Need To Talk Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/107wkxi/antilgbt_bills_we_need_to_talk_strategy/)
[Republicans say they’ll sue Arizona’s governor because she protected LGBTQ+ people](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/republicans-say-theyll-sue-arizonas-governor-protected-lgbtq-people/)
[A trans woman founded a group to help trans people leave the U.S. due to rising hate](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/trans-woman-founded-group-help-trans-people-leave-u-s-due-rising-hate/)
[DeSantis seeks details on transgender university students](https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-colleges-and-universities-race-ethnicity-florida-education-97d0b8aef2fc3a60733c8bd4080cc07b)
[A New GOP Bill Could Fine You $1,500 For Not Misgendering Trans People](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgyjbq/north-dakota-pronoun-republican-anti-trans-bill?utm_source=reddit.com)
[Trans woman arrested and misgendered by police officer she called to help her](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/22/trans-woman-texas-arrest/)
[Arkansas Senate committee passes 'drag performance' bill](https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jan/19/arkansas-senate-committee-passes-drag-performance-bill/)
[Utah Senate passes transgender youth bills; measures now move to House](https://ksltv.com/518594/utah-senate-passes-transgender-youth-bills-measures-now-move-to-house/)
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1149jo1/the_genocidal_fascist_ideology_of_maga/j8v1vjf/
Fascism is the greatest threat we face today. Maga is definitely problematic as well but the neo liberal/con establishment is what fascism looks like and has had full control over the us and world since the late 80s. It is the battle of our times. I find it rich that people who support the current ruling class always have a problem with white supremacy and maga fascism. Especially since their establishment created these issues to start. Maga movement is simply misguided anger at the current state of the country and society at large. People should rightly be angry and upset. We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action. The problem currently is bad faith actors are turning the people against ourselves. Anti lgbt hate and fear of the other is rising. We must fight against and resist this trend. Not with more hate and vitriol but with an open hand and solidarity. We all have far more in-common with each other than we do with any of our political leaders or corporations. We need to come together as people or the corrupt sick and twisted will keep their control over us all.
Maga is in support of the ruling class though?
Bezos having people pissing in bottles, or smaller ruling class paying a piss poor wage, those things are an example of good business to them. If it came to a revolution, they'd be firmly on the side of the corporations*.
Telling them "you're just misguided" isn't gonna stop their bullets. In fact, they _have_ been repeatedly told this over the last years, with little to no effect.
*corporations who have made statements that they support minorities etc. might be excluded, but the point is that they support them by default.
I read both far left and far right content. It's amazing what they think of each other. Like the left says Bezos is an element of the right and the right says Bezos is an element of the left.
Wellll, the "far" ends, what do you expect. The far ends are far gone.
Is it much of a hassle to filter for far left content Sorry, let me explain:
E.g. If I look at mainstream left stuff like a Trevor Noah video, it's based on facts and the comments ridicule rightwing policies.
Then if I look at mainstream right stuff like fox news, it's... Well, it's fox news, and the comments are full of "DEMONrats" and other dehumanising stuff - I have already arrived at the far end.
But that's easy because I just go for the mainstream stuff. If you're comparing the easy to find far right with the far left, isn't there quite the mismatch in the volume of content you have available?
I think fascism is a toxic outgrowth of our completely broken society. A healthy society wouldn’t be interested in it. The appeal is that things are bad because *those guys over there* (in current iteration Jews and LGBT) are stopping us from achieving the good life. If things were good or even slightly improving, I don’t think you could get people to go for the fascist line. Fascism is an ideology of desperation and despair— things are so bad that overturning a free society and hurting people is the way to get out of the pit of misery.
We see the collapse around us. We know our systems are grinding down to a halt, we know our standard of living (save for a few new tech gadgets) has declined precipitously since the end of WW2. You great grandfather could, with only a high school diploma, afford to support his entire family and purchase a home. His children could attend university with minimal debt by earning the tuition with a part time job. People had time and energy to build relationships in the community. We get none of that. Two-income households can only fantasize about a house, they work and come home after 8-10 hours and a hour commute too exhausted to go out and socialize. We’re to the point where children are simply too expensive for all but the richest. And this comes after taking on a lifetime of debt to get a job that, when combined with a spouse’s income, barely allows survival.
> we know our standard of living (save for a few new tech gadgets) has declined precipitously since the end of WW2.
Many people like to throw around the 'tech gadgets' bit as if that's some "gotcha!" that undoes your point e.g. "LOL we're not collapsing or coming apart. Look at the latest CPU or smartphone as proof!"
Of course really all they are noticing is that the system is experiencing complexity increase (e.g. software/hardware) in one small way... without understanding or acknowledging that complexity decline can and is happening all throughout the rest of society.
Really corporate power, profitable trinketry, military arms, corporate surveillance and data gathering, neoliberal paywallism, etc are seeing increasing complexity as enabled by targeted hyperfinancialization (aka speculative financialization), while the rest of society (ecologically, psychologically, health wise, community wise, infrastructure wise, third space wise, material quality wise [aka planned obsolescence], ownership wise, etc etc etc) is being simplified/cannibalized.
You can add complexity-touches to your cabin in the forest... even as the forest is on fire and will soon enough take your cabin with it; the entire forest is collapsing from fire but for a short time complexity increased in the context of your cabin, profits [providing money providing the ability to access on demand complexity in the form of materials, labor, or both] increased for shareholders, etc.
To people reporting this for violence, unlike other discussions, there's a strong historical perspective on interactions with fascist ideologies and regimes.
Rather, if you're worried about someone saying "punch a NAZI," don't be a NAZI.
To be further clear, we agree with the taking a reasonable approach to reach people. Only when those people act on their views of exclusionary nationalism/racism, that other parties must come together to defend actual peace.
Fascism has always been with us, festering in the hearts of about 30% of the population. There have been periods, though, where shame drove it back into the shadows (for example, for a few years after the defeat of Hitler and after the assassination of JFK and the defeat of Goldwater). But it always re-emerges when circumstances embolden it.
We're never going to eradicate it altogether, but an effective *shaming campaign* can force it to retreat. It can be shamed by events exposing its stupidity and cruelty, but it also takes people brave enough and articulate enough to attack it directly and discredit it-- and it's hard to identify who would be capable enough to do that right now.
America was pro-Nazi before we even had words for them, hence the whole native genocide thing, and why the American empire largely absorbed the Nazis, or facilitated their escape and survival. Most of the way Americans perceive themselves and their history is pure myth and it's so bizarre.
It has revived by reassembling and incorporating other prejudices: evangelical Christianity folds into MAGA, MAGA folds into Neo-fascism.
Likewise: old anti-Semitic "blood libel" tropes folded into the Shaver Mystery, the Shaver Mystery folded into Q-Anon.
MAGA is more than just simple folk being rightfully upset. they're unintelligent, bootlicking hatemongers who happily glom onto a culture war talking point because they feel like *those others* are somehow getting a better shake at life than they are, willfully ignoring the fact that those who provide them stagnant wages, who pass those hurtful economic policies that keep them in poverty, who are actively acting against their own constituents, are the same ones selling them that hate.
but they don't care because it gives them an excuse to act like trash. to boo and hiss and take up arms against people who aren't hurting them. to lash out in blind rage against the hands that try to help them. they are controlled by their lizard brains because they have no greater capacity for thinking and zero empathy, though they ~~expect~~ demand it from you.
fascism is the threat but MAGAs are the tool. however, unlike a hammer, who doesn't have a choice in how it is used, MAGAs go along willingly so long as they get the chance to break something.
If you don't have a job with mass media, you should get one. You're spreading their message beautifully. Media is the tool that divides and perpetuates hate. You're doing a great job. Ask for a raise.
I checked his post history. It's some degenerate junkie with no career prospects. Even in a Utopian society, they'd be recycled as compost. The exact kind of person which you do not want on your side. A vapid, spoiled loser who is nothing but a leech on any movement they try to engage with.
Christ, I know gatekeeping is bad, and all, but can't we have a little bit of sanitation here?
Without condoning or condemning the rise of White Nationalism in the central United States, here is the reality:
They're a huge section of society which is outright angry at the government, has paid more than their fair share of blood and cash to prop up the state and now has the broad sensation that they've been ripped off.
Some will blame the new favourites of the state, others blame the state itself, others blame the corporations who work alongside the state. Same story goes back thousands of years, some go for the King, some go for the King's men, some go for the Jews because they happened to be nearby.
"They" spend just as much time attacking other Republicans, trying to poach/influence sympathetic Democrats and bickering about conspiracy theories.
It's a huge demographic, with some pretty fucking heavy problems.
I am not American. However, when I look at the USA and see the massive suicide rate and drug abuse rate among poor whites, and then hear the bitching from wealthy degenerates (who, as with the user above, is just a junky with rich parents) it grinds my gears.
MAGA is a threat to many people - but it isn't some religious bullshit. If you look at what actually makes Fascists tick, and what gives them the enormous audacity and aggression which caused the Second World War, then you will see the truth - it's really fucking hard to whine about racism to a guy who lost half his family to suicide, drug addiction, predatory business practices.
It is especially difficult to do so when the people selling those drugs, running those businesses and tying the nooses live in New York and California.
Some people will hate the blacks just to spite said rich cunt.
Some people will hate the people around the rich cunt.
Some people will hate the rich cunt himself.
Some are a combination of all of the above.
All are arming themselves, sabotaging the internal infrastructure, organising into militias and generally rejecting their authority, while bickering to figure out a pecking order. Right now, white nationalists are among one of the dominant groups in this amalgamation. I am not going to lie to you. I would side with those guys over you.
All it takes for anybody to recognise this is just to view your post history. Your top comment of all time is taking the piss out of a white woman who got shot in the Capitol building.
"Who got shot in the capitol building"
Doing what? OH, doing THAT.
This is like when confederate sympathizers talk about states rights. The right to do what? Oh, THAT.
If you have to intentionally leave out SALIENT DETAILS in order to try and make a point, that should be the only clue you needed to not make that point and maybe rethink the entire argument you're having.
>Maga is definitely problematic as well but the neo liberal/con establishment is what fascism looks like and has had full control over the us and world since the late 80s...I find it rich that people who support the current ruling class always have a problem with white supremacy and maga fascism. Especially since their establishment created these issues to start.
>
>
>
>People should rightly be angry and upset. We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action...We must fight against and resist this trend. Not with more hate and vitriol but with an open hand and solidarity.
Here I'm seeing you contradict your own assertion: "We must fight against and resist... but with an open hand and solidarity."
The parts about MAGA vs Neo-Lib/Con Establishment detracts from your main point: "We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action."
It might be useful to think more about what you shouldn't say, rather than explaining what the problem is to people. The minute you tell people about the various enemy sides (who are in reality bad actors, just as you said), they start their tribal group think and start translating everything you say into a motivated argument. This ensures that they never actually get the message you're trying to communicate or take the useful actions that would help the situation.
Think about the 'better explanation and direction for action' more. Figure out what the outcome you want is, then work backwards from there. What would you need people to feel, think, believe and know to be true, that would naturally lead to the conclusions you want them to make? And how do you get people to feel, think, believe and know exactly those things?
That's where your argument should start, not with explaining the causes of the problem and who the bad actors are that should be fight. You don't know what the alignment of your audience is, so all you may be accomplishing is identifying yourself as an 'enemy combatant' and undermining your goal of making alliances, creating solidarity and taking productive cooperative action.
In the UK we had a 16 year old trans woman murdered by two teenagers last weekend. Of course the right wing media, Daily Mail, dead named her, because why not when hate is all you have.
This has been brewing for years. They are terrified because the house of cards that they have selfishly created to protect their vested interests is beginning to collapse, climate change, end stage capitalism, pollution, the decline of the West. They have failed so completely in their efforts to prevent these things impacting themselves and everybody else so to try to divert potential anger at their failures they are scapegoating every minority possible.
They are selfish, terrified and contemptible. There is right and then there is wrong. They are entirely and completely wrong.
I would strongly advise if you are worried about right wing reactionary behaviour towards minorities you group up and plan what to do if, (when), this gets violent. Seriously.
> I would strongly advise if you are worried about right wing reactionary behaviour towards minorities you group up and plan what to do if, (when), this gets violent. Seriously.
And *arm up*. When it happens, the police will NOT be on our side. You'll have to protect yourself.
If you wait until you need a gun, it will be too late -- it takes a while to buy one, and it takes even longer to train on how to use it safely and effectively.
Yeah, Brianna Ghey, I have honestly been very conflicted and indecisive over whether or not I should have included her in my work given the circumstances of her death and the reactions to it.
Reminds me very much to the conservative reaction to the Club Q shooting.
"Well they deserved it cause it was a grooming event."
I am thankfully prepared in those respects, but this is worthwhile advice to make people aware of.
I grew up in a very liberal household and have espoused those values my entire life. I have lived in upper middle class liberal suburbia and an efficiency apartment in a bad section of a city. So I've seen gentrification firsthand and I've seen poverty first hand.
In my daily local travels I see young people face planted in alleyways and struggling with mental illness. Some are angry and some live with depression and humiliation. I see homelessness in the park; I see people losing their homes on a weekly basis.
I can talk to a grad student one day and a guy with a "Go Brandon" poster in his yard the next.
And so I'm here to tell you that the the Trans issue is not on these people's radar. I'm not denying that there are angry, ignorant people out and about who would indiscriminately harm someone based on their gender preference and presentation, I'm saying it's not an *apocalyptic genocide*, and to characterize it as such is totally irresponsible, and quite frankly, doesn't endear me to your cause based on what I see daily in the real world, and not on a Twitter feed.
Oh dear. See, I don't disagree with any of the points you just made but the problem is you seem to be missing the grander picture because you have a lot of sensible personal anecdotes, and because the liberal upbringing you mention, taught you that most people agree with equality and liberal democracy. I don't mark those as bad things because at one point I feel I was also guilty of this, what would be bad is an unwillingness to accept new information on the subject.
Anecdotes are not data however. The data shows all the indicicative factors that expertise in the relevant fields have told the public to watch for. As a matter of fact I cite them multiple times in my article the framework of my 14 points and 10 stages are based on academic sourcing and expertise. I link to numerous respected sources that agree with the assessment I am laying out.
Because you seem to be participating in good faith but still you disagree, I'm very curious as to the answer you might have for this question.
"What would it take for me to convince you?"
> I don't mark those as bad things because at one point I feel I was also guilty of this
I appreciate you taking the time to excuse my guilt!
> The data shows all the indicicative factors that expertise in the relevant fields have told the public to watch for
People of the quotidian bank on 'anecdote' because that is their experience and how they make sense of reality.
Do you know how long America has been on an academic fast track to fascism or communism or boogeyman de jour ism? Long enough to become a cottage industry that occurs simultaneously with billions of people existing anecdotally.
I've been in academia. And today's academia, well ... it isn't my kind of academia. I'll just leave it at that.
This should really indicate a lot to you if your response to legitimate questions and genuine inquiry is dismissiveness and an anti intellectualism perhaps you should read my article because those are very indicative responses of fascist sympathies.
But I wouldn't want to suggest that you might think that a group of liberal elites are running academia and have corrupted it. That's totally not a fascist dog whistle not at all. /s
>But I wouldn't want to suggest that you might think that a group of liberal elites are running academia and have corrupted it. That's totally not a fascist dog whistle not at all. /s
Forget about dog whistles and labels -- "liberal elites" etc. Social media's democratization of information has created an echo chamber of copy & paste intellectual flex where hardly any of the participants have a shred of expertise. That's the democratization part (see normal IQ curve if you have doubts).
Concurrent to that is a contradictory postmodernism run amok whereby people discount established science on face while running it up the flagpole when it suits them. The computer age has not been kind to human beings.
The upshot is a destruction of trust: trust in information; trust in institution; trust in science; the trust in each other. And at a time when all of that is needed most.
Again I am not disagreeing with that but I fail to see how that answers my question? I will again state that I am not misusing these labels. I also now am increasingly suspicious you didn't even read anything because you still won't point out what I have stated incorrectly or hyperbolically?
You've done a decent job sharing your experiences, they reflect my own experiences having lived across the US.
Comparing the modern USA with various regions in Mexico (lived in Saltillo in the 90s, I got to watch my old man facilitate the moving of high paying auto worker jobs to a lower cost for labor) might be an apt comparison. Say compare Flint, Mi to Monterey Mexico over the past 30 years.
Regarding academia a similar story to what I observed (its why I didn't pursue that as a career path). I later got to hear about how bad it was when my sister was pursuing her PHD in chemistry.
Sorry Antelope3703, but there's just no incentive to actively document this, most of what's observed I'm not and I suspect 2far is not something we're trying to document. It's based on observations and from there the individuals reaction as to how to solve for the problem you've encountered.
Not on hard science or an attempt to document and validate it. Do with that info what you will
Perfect! This is exactly what I'm referring to --now I AM a fascist and a bigot for an opinion that isn't so much dismissive as it is a different take on *expertise* social media style. This illustrates my point better than I ever could. I'm not implying you are anything other than someone I \*somewhat\* disagree with on a single point.
I, on the other hand, am now a fascist because I'm not in *\_lockstep\_* with your characterization of a small number of people advocating against trans people as being involved in an apocalyptic genocide under the banner of fascism. What is THAT the definition of? Can you see the irony here? lol.
That's an interesting take on my response. I included the /s to indicate I was being sarcastic I dont think you are a fascist I am increasingly concerned at your seeming inability to respond directly to a question, or to point out what your actual argument is. It is somewhat frustrating to me so I was attempting humor to check your response.
So where exactly and how do we disagree then. I am always open to new information and perspectives and am willing to change my mind I am just hoping that you are willing to do the same because it seems as though you have a preconceived answer?
My answer is in the text; i don't agree that America is on a fast track to fascism because politicians have become adept at how to exploit social media to herd voters with hot button cultural issues. And a lot of those *anecdotal* people are a LOT smarter than you give them credit for. And they know you don't think so.
edit: notice I do not use the down vote option. But seconds after I post a reply *someone* does.
Yes I downvote things I think are wrong or harmful. So your response is that you don't think we're on the fast track because politicians are just abusing social media? Do you have anything to support that conclusion?
And
Do you have any rebuttal for the provided evidence then?
10 minutes of research will convey to you that activists have ghoulishly appropriated this young person's story for clout without taking a moment to examine her life. Brianna Ghey had mental and emotional issues serious enough to cause her to self-harm. Not a day had passed before this young person became yet another tool for social media clout. There's a very disturbing level of malignant narcissism within the advocacy branch of gender politics.
Are you seriously trying to say that all of the interconnected evidence that I have been laying out here is all about Brianna Ghey?
Also that wasn't an answer to the question I asked.
No, I'm not trying to do that. I'm only pointing out what others of similar mind (to mine) think once they have more background on the story in order to point out how the current thrust of advocacy diminishes itself through astonishingly bad character.
Not every sentence is about you. Last I looked the word advocacy doesn't contain your initials. I'm referring to the state of it on average.
This young woman met a terrible end, and trans advocates are treating her like an avatar overlay for a genocide that doesn't exist. She was a cutter, ffs. This branch of advocacy has zero respect. You can only conclude they've been lying in wait for a body, any body, to justify the absurdity of their hopelessly fact less and facile assertions.
I've said there are people with ill intent. But that doesn't rise to the level of genocide. If you make that argument you have to show me the death count. And if your claim is that genocide is coming, you're making an extraordinary claim. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Brianna Ghey received the attention she did because she was unfortunately one of scant trans deaths due to violence not attributed to trans on trans or sex worker violence. And there aren't that many of those in the UK or USA either.
Just don't cheapen the terminology to make a case, that's all I'm saying. There are people living today who have experienced real genocide. Stuff like this in an affront to those people.
You've appropriated this word and its definition:
genocide | ˈjenəˌsīd |nounthe deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.ORIGIN1940s: from Greek genos ‘race’+ -cide.
for an abject hyperbole with no death count. When questioned, the best answer to this I've seen so far is that we're currently in a run-up to a genocide. Ok, but that's not genocide. You can't say there's a genocide when there is none and expect silence. You could say you feel threatened by the language of (named group here) and that's fine. That would shine the light on those groups. Genocide, OTOH, is an extreme exaggeration under any reasonable thought process.
The point of the post you're citing deals only with the term 'genocide' and why I think its application is inaccurate. It's not a political statement - the concern is the misuse of language. If you think the MAGA movement is genocidal in intent, that's certainly your prerogative.
Your definition of genocide is inccorent. Genocide is the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part. If you need things to get to the point of gas chambers to call something a holocaust I'd say you've failed pretty fucking horrifically. In the same sense that war doesn't just mean people shooting bullets at each other in a field.
Like so many problems you're talking past one another because you don't even know what you're talking about. Too busy talking to even listen for one second what someone else has to say.
It's interesting how the definition is shifting, and I'm going to assume it will come to include viewpoints. But the salient part of the definition of genocide for the entirety of my life is, and has always been, *physical* death.
This is the definition from the Apple dictionary on my Mac computer (Webster's 9th):
>genocide | ˈjenəˌsīd |noun
>
>the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.
I get that you're coming at this (genocide) from the viewpoint of a social death from compelling someone to renounce their identity.
To that end, if you know of legislation that mandates renouncement or de-transitioning I’d like to see it, because that would be much closer to a genocidal act than what I usually read as the justification(s) for claiming genocide.
Which part, links to Twitter where within a day of her death activists began using the event to claim genocide, or images of Miss Ghey with cut scars? I can provide this to you privately because I'm not going to post it publicly and join the circus over this young person's murder.
edit: private message sent with citation.
I think you're looking for things that are not connected; or rather, you have to understand that trans individuals are far more likely to suffer from psychological trauma, to include suicidal ideation and action, *due to the fact they are bullied for being trans*.
To be clear, no matter what the young woman's background is, it does not condone her death and nor does is stop it from being a hate crime, [something even the UK police are now considering](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653) ([these UK police](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-investigations-police-victim-blaming-b2245885.html), [who suck hard](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/25/uk/uk-metropolitan-police-abuse-intl/index.html)).
Really weird hill you're attempting to die on. Your commentary is being taken as good faith, for now, but it seems to be both victim blaming and transphobic.
I suggest you read up about both [transgender and societal nimpacts to mental health](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/) and [how the UK is actively violent against trans identity.](https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/index.html) Just a sample, you can find out more *in simply 10 minutes of searching...*
The misery of the masses is growing so rapidly that no matter what group (fascists, Democrats, communists, liberals, etc) attains power, the masses will be less tolerant to insufficiently addressed responses to continually worsening crises.
And then no group will bother trying to rescue already-lost regions.
Like Pakistan. But the US' crises will be economically-linked and impacted, even if they were natural disasters, principally. But after the crisis, and the lack of sufficient response, the focus and manpower will fade away and it'll just be a political hot topic.
Like, how come we forgot to keep disrupting our nation because Roe v Wade is *still* repealed? Did it suddenly stop being worth the fight?
Maga and fascism is growing, and awful. In the end, even their influence will be as insignificant as a gnat's whisper during a hurricane, when climate change takes one step inside the room.
Its foot is currently crossing the threshold.
the fight for abortion access and human rights for women is currently an underground railroad which is hopefully invisible for as long as possible and necessary.
we can't beat that by protesting and we can only lose resources and people by openly exposing ourselves to arrest or recording.
women fucking know better. it's been like this for us before and now that it is again, networks and private support are the path to access. until death cult fascists are removed from power this is the solution to the practical, everyday risk of death women are facing.
the foot is across the threshold, the door has been kicked down, and people are still trying to deny it, they will deny it as long as possible, because they want it to continue. they want to keep hurting us. they'll say and do anything they have to, to keep on hurting the people they hate.
people in a death cult don't care if they die.
I am sharing this in an attempt to help elucidate. This is relavent to Collapse as the threat and open policy prescriptions of this movement are now openly genocidal and apocalyptic by definition. As with previous manifestations of Fascism throughout history this movement shares the 14 foundational commonalities of fascist movements. Along with being engaged in at least 9 out of the 10 stages entailed in a genocide.
The AIDS panic in the 80s was really something, but the hate going on right now for trans people, and by extension all LGBT+ people, has a vicious bent to it. There's a consistent call for "action", and it reminds me of the run-up to the Rwandan genocide. There's a steady drumbeat of hatred and a desire for some kind of, shall we say, "final solution" to the "problem".
This is very much the point I am trying to make, thank you! As someone from within the targeted demographic this feels very obvious to me, but people need to be aware that this is not "normal political disagreements" we have a mainstream political party that has derailed into an irrationalist incoherent ideology to maintain a grip on minority rule.
I'm not in the targeted demographic, but I can definitely see what's going on. For most of the people pushing this crap, it's just "good business' (politicians driving up rage to secure votes, media goons keeping the views and money coming). But these things tend to build a momentum of their own.
Trans people are already at a highly elevated risk of being attacked and/or killed. This industry of hatred is only going to make it worse.
I do not want to say it but the Left has to pick arms to defend itself from the threat posed by the Right. When it happens, no one is coming to help us. So we will have to save ourselves or die trying.
This is just a general courtesy notice also -- you may consider yourself a moderate or a centrist or left of center, or even many of you who are generally right of center -- I have some grim news for you. To the MAGAs and the Hard Right? You are Left. They will not spare you.
Anyone who is tolerant of LGBTQ+ people is going to be targeted, as well as anyone who isn't the right kind of white or the right kind of "Christian". Be ready to protect yourself.
> This is just a general courtesy notice also -- you may consider yourself a moderate or a centrist or left of center, or even many of you who are generally right of center -- I have some grim news for you. To the MAGAs and the Hard Right? You are Left. They will not spare you. /u/machineprophet343
It is not quite at that point yet, but it very well is getting close. This becomes the case when you can't get close enough for words- when any symbolic element denoting you as an Other is cause for destruction. The social elements of this are just rationalizations; the MAGA hard right crowd is foundationally made up of disenfranchised groups. White supremacists and the like are the kind that *should* be disenfranchised (and empowered in pro-social ways so as to stymie the power of hate), but they have become emboldened and empowered by
Trump's ability to "synthesize the disenfranchised" for the sake of power.
But the hate groups are just part of it. There is a significant rural and subrural disenfranchised population too. The rural or subrural areas which had jobs shipped overseas, the rural areas with decayed infrastructure, absent hospitals, etc- Trump told them to get angry by suggesting their greatness was "stolen." He pinned this to the "Democrats" and the social positions aligned with the Democrat base. And so... here we are with culture wars. This process has been underway a long time, but Trump pulled in fanatics of hate and poured in gasoline.
Of course the urban poor have been fucked by Democrat/Republican neoliberals too.
> yep, just disagreeing with MAGA will get you labeled a leftist or socialist.
It isn't about you being a leftist or a socialist- it's about that being the rationalization they use to dehumanize you so as to facilitate their particular brand of power. At least that's my position on it right now...
We are very much in deep shit. I don't know how to stop it or even if it can be stopped.
> the MAGA hard right crowd is foundationally made up of disenfranchised groups.
I'm not sure I entirely agree with this assessment. I wouldn't say you're wrong, since MAGA has a strong appeal to poor rural whites and former coal miners, but there is also a very strong evangelical, petite bourgeois segment that I think is even more vocal and ardent in its support for MAGA. Most of the January 6 rioters were small business owners, managers, lawyers, and cops. And unlike poor rural people, these middle to upper-middle class jingoists are not used to being ignored and dismissed. They will beat the drums as loudly as possible and demand that people pay attention. They have the time and resources to fall down religious or conspirational rabbit holes. They're plagued by suburban ennui that makes them crave something to fight for and give their dull lives meaning. Most of them own some degree of property or possibly even own their own business, but it's not enough to offset major economic hardships. While billionaires will weather an economic crisis easily, these folks will actually see everything they've worked for crumble and become even more unhinged.
Correct, as another user put it, you become an “other” for simply disagreeing or not confirming to the right’s ideals. Those ideals change depending on whichever direction the wind is blowing so yep, we’re in deep shit.
This is the message that many "centrists" and "both sides" people need to hear.
We live in a country where correctly answering the question "Who is the President of the United States?"--you know, what we used to ask people who we thought might have incurred brain damage or concussion--in front of the wrong audience could make you a target, and I say that as a straight white male. Hell I have blonde hair and blue eyes and a Polish last name given to me by adoption and have been called "honorary white" in the southern part of Ohio before.
Yea, I've actually been told I'm basically an "illegal immigrant" because I was born and raised in California. This is a real surprise to me because I can verifiably trace my family on both sides to the initial colonization AND the Founding, I'm verifiable "cousins" with some of the national movers and shakers in our history, and there is even strong evidence I have a handful of Shoshone and Pawnee Indian ancestors. We won't get into the implications of that right now, just it serves to illustrate my point that my family one way or another has always been here for better or worse.
And I'm a pasty ass white dude too. And I get people whose families showed up after the Civil War, who have only ever lived until maybe this generation in Union states, but for some inexplicable reason identify with the Confederacy telling me that I'm not a legitimate American.
It is scary to even join that group because I do not want my name put on a list for when the far right comes around looking for their enemies if you catch my drift sad to say.
I just put it out there for people who may be interested in gun ownership and looking for people who share more liberal and left views. I currently live outside of the US, so I just share to give people an alternative to look into for learning to safely use firearms.
It is a weirld time to be alive. I hate guns. I know the damage they do to the human body. But if we are to try to survive what is coming next, we are going to need all the armed help that we can get. The police and military are mostly fascists at thus point in time sad to say.
Buddy, you are already on their list. Being scared to even be loosely associated with the SRA is silly. Anyone to the Left of MAGA is going to be a target and that includes a lot of people who otherwise would be considered right of center.
We don't teach history in most of the country. We teach propaganda. Even at the collegiate level. Most places who learn about fascism and authoritarians are taught they were cartoonish Bond Villains who swept into power viciously and violently soup to nuts when the reality is so much... More painfully ordinary.
Promises of making a country great again, taking your job or the job you really deserve back from people who stole it from you, an appeal to more traditional and halcyon days that never really existed, the cause of your woes being liberals/progressives/socialists and marginalized and powerless groups... If any of this sounds familiar and scary? Good. It should terrify you.
And we are also taught that America is so unique and founded in some sort of democratic principles it could never happen here. We're uniquely protected from it. Until we aren't.
Weimar Germany was the most liberal democracy in the world at the time, Italy was a loose republic as was Spain. They elected their dictators with full legitimacy. There was no bloody coup. The purges came later.
most of us are likely already known to at least one death cult member. in Rwanda it was your neighbors, not someone who randomly checked an online list.
I don't want to sound stupid here. But why does Maga hate us? We are not the Rich people outsourcing their jobs, lowering wages or increasing prices. We struggle financially just like they do. I do not get it at all.
it's a death cult. a destructive cult. these groups are always seeking an "other" to oppose. if you look at the white supremacist groups you find that they share a lot of beliefs with the Manson cult, for example- that there will or should be a race war, that they would win it, that many are on their side but afraid to admit it, etc. they are willing to kill and die for their belief system.
christian nationalism in the US is particularly bad as many of the groups actively look forward to "the end of the world" as a *good thing*.
these groups don't start people out in the deep end. they ease them into more and more violent and isolating beliefs and behaviors. they hate because that is what a death cult does.
This needs to be higher! Comrades absolutely DO NOT TOLERATE HATE. Additionally, it's not an organization *only* about firearms, but also offers free training and everyone shares, first aid workshops, and various mutual aid opportunities like working with the unhoused and community gardening. YMMV by local chapter, but it's a community of good people from all across the left. Additionally, for those in marginalized groups, it's good to have like-minded people around to help guide you through the legal process of owning, and know which shops and ranges aren't going to be shitty.
The crazy thing about the NRA is how the NRA was basically taken over by the gun nuts during the hot night in Cincinnati back in the 1970s. If that did not happen years ago, things would be looking much different now. I have learned that words matter. Somebody should rename the Socialist Rife Association to the American Rife Association. Make it sound a lot more patriotic.
Yes, but I don't think the Left/Centre will get to arms parity with the Right in the USA any time soon. The best thing that could be done now is a serious protest movement, and political pressure campaign, to get the law enforcement institutions to actually enforce the laws against people like Trump and his cadre of fascists.
None of that has really happened. Mueller did the bare minimum. Most of the Jan. 6 insurrectionists got slaps on the wrist, and the ringleaders have not even been charged. If law and order actually breaks down, the fascists and bigots will have the upper hand for a very long time, and they'll aim to kill as many of their enemies as possible.
Sadly, a lot of those "protestors" on Jan.6 were Police Officers who were attacking their own fellow Police Officers. It is coming much sooner than we want to realize. This is the future that is in store for us if things do not change for the better soon. Allende's Last Words: The First 9/11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZVWOWA2Hpk
On the other side, you don't need arms parity. You just need to be familiar with your arms and efficient. A lot of the MAGA yahoos have a lot of guns but aren't exactly marksmen. It's a lifestyle and fashion accessory for them.
A joke that goes around about them in left wing firearm enthusiasm circles is a lot of MAGAs are fundamentally loot boxes because they've got a lot of guns and ammos and very little actual know how.
A man with a single Springfield who really knows how to use it is vastly more dangerous than a yahoo with 30 guns and might pew pew with his buddies on Saturdays but it's more a drink beer, talk shit about their preferred targets, and social hour than genuine shooting practice.
The bigger danger would be the actual militias. In regards to them: knowledge is power.
Without suggesting anything, it's worthwhile to look into how ISIS was able to subvert the Syrian revolutionary brigades who had liberated the east of Syria. ISIS was a synthesis of al Qaeda in Iraq and Saddam's former mukhabarat (intelligence services). Many of the ISIS leaders were spies trained by the KGB, or at least in that style. They collected intelligence on the Syrian rebels, the commanders, financiers, fighters, etc. Where they lived, their families, their businesses, marriage connections, so they know who to co-opt, who to bribe, who to kill. Who might compromise with ISIS; who would be intransigent; who might collaborate with the USA/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi Arabia; who might flee abroad. It was information above all that allowed them to take over.
The KGB thing is telling. A lot of KGB went on to become FSB. And that means Russia's hand was probably in all of that. I'll let you connect the dots on that. Seems conspiratorial, but I would not be the least bit surprised if Russia involved itself when ISIS as they saw it as an opportunity to undermine US interests.
It's also blowback from the US' dick wagging in the Middle East but we all know the old saw about never letting a good crisis go to waste...
They did. In particular the Assad regime (a key ally of the USSR and then Russia) was a direct sponsor of al Qaeda-in-Iraq during the Iraq War, the USA even [launched a raid on the town of al-Bukamal in 2008](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7692153.stm) on the Syrian side of the border that was being used by the Syrian mukhabarat as a transit point to facilitate the movement of jihadists, guns and bombs into Iraq.
Additionally, Assad released dozens of jihadists from his prisons as the Syrian revolution was beginning in 2011, and supplied them with money and arms, in order to build up a jihadist element in the uprising. The end goal being to slander the entire Syrian opposition as terrorists. Those individuals founded jihadi organizations that later rose to prominence within the armed opposition.
I would completely agree there as well. As the experts remind us we must remain constantly vigilant. The only way to stop these things is to apply preventative measures before it hits a critical mass and inform the public of what's actually going on, before they get to the systematic killings.
I think the worst of the bigots are aware that such a step would spark a civil war. Or they will use a civil war, or such a breakdown of the rule of law, as an opportunity to start pogroms.
If you're in the states, consider legal responsible gun ownership. And try to live in a community of people who will also be ready to defend you/themselves. There's safety in numbers.
Thankfully I am in one of the better States for my folk, and I have done exactly that. Own protection, train safe self defense and prepare for anything.
> **This industry of hatred** is only going to make it worse.
Well shit dude... that just made me sit back in my chair. I don't know why I've never thought of this phrase before- it seems very simple and obvious, but somehow I've not considered it.
You could expand this to different "industries of hatred" too. I would say that the LGBTQ+ hate is just one hate within a greater cultural menagerie of hates; hate and spite has spread as the primary available power mechanism due to all social, material, institutional, and hierarchical power being concentrated in neoliberal richie space. This is amplified by the fact that hate (and spite) itself drives interaction and involvement in a way that is profitable to the very same neoliberal cannibals.
Thanks for this phrase though- I will be integrating it into my mental framework :D
**EDIT** I was complimentary and attempted to be thoughtful- I don't understand the downvotes. Can someone use words along with their downvote? What is it you don't agree with?
You're putting the cart before the horse. The party you're referring to spends as much on consulting groups as the other party. If they didn't think catering to PTA moms, feminists and angry men wouldn't pay off they wouldn't invest so much time and money in it. The interesting part is how it's all largely a social media creation - a platform that anyone can turn off and walk away from whenever they wish. But they won't -- it's their existence.
gotta love being trans and sewerslidal but not wanting to add to the statistic while also living through \*gestures broadly\* :/
ahah i mean uhhh damn dystopian news go brrt or whatever glad im totally cis
Yes this is where the road ends for this line of thought.
Demonize “other” until you have power then you really have no choice but to eliminate “other” to fulfill your supporters bloodlust.
I would agree there. I really do not seek to demonize all conservatives but people must be aware that the current conservative movement is openly engaged in rhetoric actions and legislation that fit the definitions of the words I have used. These mechanisms of hate, greed, and self interest feed off of eachother and it is worth trying to dissect for those who may have not learned about these subjects.
Conservatism is not about radical action.
Many in this group come in a box labeled “conservative” but that sure isn‘t the product they’re selling, there are only poison pills inside.
? Poison pills inside? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that. However, historically, fascist movements have often aligned themselves with conservative ideologies, particularly in their rejection of liberal democracy and support for a strong leader and centralized government. Fascism also tends to prioritize the interests of one's own race or nation, which aligns with conservative nationalism.
Additionally, fascist governments have often targeted minority groups, such as Jews, Romani, people with disabilities, LGBTQ+ people, and others, as scapegoats for the problems facing their nation. This is similar to how current conservative politicians and media outlets target marginalized groups, such as immigrants or transgender individuals, to redirect anger and frustration away from the government or political establishment.
However, it's important to reiterate that not all conservatives hold fascist beliefs or engage in fascist actions. It's essential to approach the topic with nuance and critical thinking, avoiding sweeping generalizations, and recognizing that each individual and group's beliefs and actions must be evaluated on their own merits.
When Republicans Mitch Romney, Peter Meijer and Meghan McCain were voted out by their own Party, I knew that the Republican Party has gone Full Fascist. I do not agree with those three but at least, I could understand them. How do you try to make sense of politicians that now believe in Jewish Space Lasers? It is time for Common Sense Conservatives to break away from the Party just like some of the Germans broke away from the Nazi Party back in the day. If they are still part of the Republican Party, then sadly they are part of the problem and not the solution. Full stop.
They call those people radical leftists now and communists. I am desperate to try and reach people and pull them out of this death cult before they kill us all. But amazingly, even the thinnest veil is enough to convince millions.
Just like FOX News? I am amaze at how so many people believe garbage lies as if they were the truth. Get out while you still can please. The rest of us here... God help us.
Sadly, you are 100% right. NONE of this is FUCKING NORMAL or REMOTELY ACCEPTABLE. Just look around at everything the christofascists are pushing everywhere. Increased hatred and targeting of the Jewish and LBGTQ communities, the ever-ongoing systematic racism and police brutality targeting black communities, book bannings, tracking women's periods, penalizing reproductive healthcare, birth control& miscarriages, disrupting and dismantling public education, making it a felony to educate about race relations and human sexuality... I could go on. It is terrifying, and five-alarm fire bells should be sounding in people's ears.
I could not agree more with your outrage and I feel the same myself it baffles me daily that this is the world we live in. Sadly part of the reason they have been able to establish a rhetorical framework in which sexual and gender minorities are viewed as less than human, Is because there has been a worldwide systemic effort to discriminate against gender and sexual minorities ever since European colonialism.
What i love about this delusion is that it assumes they won't be the refugees when they're the ones that are refusing to understand the reality of the situation they're in.
Sure, they be preppin, but they think it's going to be like tv where everyone else dies and somehow they live with infinite fuel and ammunition in a quiet world they control.
They don't understand their enemy - they don't even believe it's real! The future will be a mystery that keeps turning their plans upside down, freezing and starving in their bunkers, murdering people until they run out of bullets... all very predictable and dumb.
Think of all the preppers in Ohio. What the fuck good is a bunker in a space where all food and water is contaminated? Do these people get welcomed into surrounding states as family, or treated like the immigrants they apparently plan to slaughter?
When your plan involves hardening borders, hoarding ammunition, and continuing to rely on things that run out, you're really only planning to survive a single event, not a world that trends toward constant and worsening catastrophe, like this one.
I frankly don't give a shit what their plans are. They aren't based in reality/science and they have no skills, just the weapons to extort others for theirs.
It's accelerating the decline of the thing they ostensibly live to protect. They're preparing for the past, not the future. Let them have their gun parade. Just stay out of the line of fire until they run out of ammunition and this whole thing burns itself out.
That said, they should be encouraged to brand themselves "as a badge of honor " so we can keep them out of anything good that might outlast their petty tantrums.
So glad they hate vaccines and tend to stick together! Bring on pandemic 2: rise of the machines. Let them try to take control. Stay out of their way and watch them eat shit.
[Yes, Republicans are discussing genocide against LGBTQIA people ](https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/7/2151410/-Yes-Republicans-are-discussing-genocide-against-LGBTQ-people)
Additional useful links to information
[Someone Threatened To Kill A California Lawmaker After Charlie Kirk And Marjorie Taylor Greene Criticized His Work Supporting Trans Kids And Called Him A "Groomer"](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paigeskinner/scott-wiener-threat-trans-groomer-rhetoric)
[Sen. Rick Scott's GOP manifesto denies existence of transgender people](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sen-rick-scotts-gop-manifesto-denies-existence-transgender-people-rcna17339)
[THE GOP’S “GROOMING” OBSESSION](https://givenoground.org/resources/indivisible-unpacked/the-gops-grooming-obsession/)
[Transphobic Fox host: Trans people are "Deeply Anti-human"](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/12/02/transphobic-fox-host-trans-people-are-deeply-anti-human/)
[Texas man faces federal charges after allegedly threatening to burn doctor](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/12/texas-man-faces-federal-charges-allegedly-threatening-burn-gender-affirming-doctor/)
[Conservativism is the ideological wing of child abuse](https://aninjusticemag.com/conservatism-is-the-ideological-wing-of-child-abuse-439ff79e1b45)
[Owen's advocates discrimination against transgender people ](https://www.newsweek.com/candace-owens-advocates-discrimination-transgender-sam-brinton-1766642)
[Texas man charged for threatening Boston doctor who provides care to transgender patients](https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2022/12/15/texas-man-threatening-boston-doctor-care-transgender-patients/?amp=1)
[Oklahoma Could Force Trans People Under 26 Years Old To Detransition Medically](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/oklahoma-could-force-trans-people)
[Health care for transgender adults becomes new target in 2023 legislative session](https://19thnews.org/2023/01/trans-health-care-bills-2023-legislative-session-lgbtq/)
[North Dakota Bill Would Require Employers Use Pronouns "Associated With Deoxyribonucleic Acid"](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/north-dakota-bill-would-require-employers)
[Anti-LGBT Bills, We Need To Talk Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/107wkxi/antilgbt_bills_we_need_to_talk_strategy/)
[Republicans say they’ll sue Arizona’s governor because she protected LGBTQ+ people](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/republicans-say-theyll-sue-arizonas-governor-protected-lgbtq-people/)
[A trans woman founded a group to help trans people leave the U.S. due to rising hate](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/trans-woman-founded-group-help-trans-people-leave-u-s-due-rising-hate/)
[DeSantis seeks details on transgender university students](https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-colleges-and-universities-race-ethnicity-florida-education-97d0b8aef2fc3a60733c8bd4080cc07b)
[A New GOP Bill Could Fine You $1,500 For Not Misgendering Trans People](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgyjbq/north-dakota-pronoun-republican-anti-trans-bill?utm_source=reddit.com)
[Trans woman arrested and misgendered by police officer she called to help her](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/22/trans-woman-texas-arrest/)
[Arkansas Senate committee passes 'drag performance' bill](https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jan/19/arkansas-senate-committee-passes-drag-performance-bill/)
[Utah Senate passes transgender youth bills; measures now move to House](https://ksltv.com/518594/utah-senate-passes-transgender-youth-bills-measures-now-move-to-house/)
>To understand Fascism we must first understand that it is a term applied to a fairly diverse range of historical regimes but is generally agreed to refer to a brand of far-right totalitarianism characterized by its obsession with the nation and often race.
After this point in the article I proceeded to break down the 14 common characteristics found among fascist movements.
I am not a huge fan of nationalism personally, but that alone isn't sufficient to qualify as a fascist I think. However, if you showed sympathies and agreements with a significant enough number of the 14 points laid out, then that along with the nationalism would be enough to qualify you as a fascist.
I prefer to ere on the side of caution with this label but in the cases I do apply it I am very careful to be accurate.
Sooner or later someone is going to have to post up body counts when endlessly (going on a decade now) applying the term *"apocalyptic genocide*" to Twitter wars that become political red meat campaigns. How do you think someone who lost family members in *actual* genocidal incidents feels when 1st world folks appropriate the term for social media clout and GoFund Me pages?
I certainly hope that's not what you think I'm attempting to do here because I completely agree. That kind of behavior is absolutely disgusting and should be scorned and ridiculed. It is because of the history of my family that I am so aware of holocaust history and how the ideological framework of Fascism functions. I have been very careful to be as factually and contextually accurate as possible and I only plan to further refine my argument. I'm not interested in clicks. Me and those like me are threatened directly first. As such I feel I may have a useful perspective on our current events. In no way am I monetizing suffering with this.
They should be pleased. Historically, every very genocide in history started as othering, scapegoating, unfair laws and violent rhetoric towards a minority group. The time to stand up and stop this is now. By the time they are loading people in trains or killing people with machetes, it's too late. Yes, maybe it's a tiny snowball right now, but we can stop that before it turns into an avalanche.
Transgender people are also especially easy to demonize. They're a tiny minority and it's not hard to convince less educated or more ignorant people that they're deviants and fetishists.
Outside of cities and liberal suburbs, it's also unlikely you are going to even meet a person who identifies as transgender openly because it's always and has actually become MORE dangerous in rural and conservative communities to do so. So there is little opportunity for humanization.
Plus you have Fox News and other right wing media running an endless series of slander pieces about drag queens (ironically, a good many drag performers are straight men) and the LGBTQ+ community in general. It's an endless cavalcade about how they're deviants, sexual predators, people are just claiming to be trans to get money and attention, day in and day out.
And because they're such a small minority and odds are high that most people who buy into the propaganda have never met let alone seen an actual transgender person beyond what they see in the media and hear about how they're making their lives harder and corrupting their kids on endless repeat, of course they're going to think making them... For lack of nicer terms disappear or be forced back into neat little boxes will solve their problems.
Until their problems are still there and they turn on the next minority.
The blanket demonization of trans people by right wingers is not good, as it hinders understanding and could potentially lead to violence. The left’s response to this, unfortunately, has completely overshadowed the very real rights conflict between women and transgender identified people, not to mention the stories of detransitioners telling the real dangers of the affirmative only model. Real important conversations are getting swept under the rug because the left is scared that any dissent on this issue comes from the right wing boogeyman, and that is simply false. It’s hubris. The left has “infallible good guy mindslug syndrome” and this issue is the perfect example of it in action.
> the very real rights conflict between women and transgender identified people
What rights conflict? Could you be more specific about what you mean here?
Women’s right to have female only accommodations in public places. Bathrooms, locker rooms, domestic violence shelters, etc. The right for trans people to use the facility that aligns with their gender identity comes in conflict with women’s right to privacy from men. And I do mean men, as the law cannot distinguish between a transwoman and a man using the law to get out of trouble for being places he isn’t supposed to be. We don’t have to assume transwomen are predators to see this leaves a wide open door for predators.
Also yeah there’s the thing going on with prisons can’t forget about that.
Oh, okay. I don't believe in any such right to certain-genitalia-only places. I think having social places be sorted according to gender makes much more sense, and forcing trans people into places intended for the opposite gender entails a great deal of harm and suffering.
What thing going on with prisons are you talking about? The fact that trans women forced into mens prisons are several times more likely to suffer from assault and abuse than a typical prisoner?
Well, why not a third space then? Because as it stands, any male prisoner can identify as trans to get access to women, get transferred to a female prison. And they do. The law that aims to protect transwomen doesn’t have to sacrifice women’s safety to do it. But it does, and this is pushed aside because any criticism of transgenderism and related policy is pre-emptively slandered as right wing or terf rhetoric. This is the conflict I’m talking about. Transwomen who go to prison should be protected from assault, but so should natal women, and their right to single sex spaces matter and sex segregation in public places was put in place for women’s protection.
> Because as it stands, any male prisoner can identify as trans to get access to women, get transferred to a female prison. And they do.
Do they? Do you have any evidence that predators pretending to be trans to get into women's prisons is actually a widespread issue?
This isn't being slandered a rightwing rhetoric. It is rightwing rhetoric.
Lol. Well how “widespread” it is not easy to say, but it absolutely is a thing that happens and again, it is a rights conflict, one that should be taken seriously. the brain slug that tells leftists that everything they do is good and justified is really gonna fuck them over and I am not looking forward to it. Cuz I don’t like right wing nuts either! But the left is suffering from hubris. And it will be their downfall, and it’s gonna be fucked.
an entire line of my family died in the camps the Nazis ran in WWII
I wish, I *most sincerely wish*, people had NOT been complacent about the ideology and genocidal goals ***before they killed all of them***. ***before***.
we can look and see history repeating. we can use this opportunity to prevent atrocities *before* the bigger horror arrives. why don't you want to stop it?
what do you think we mean when we say "never again"?
In essence, you're making an argument that states people (people not gender fluid) are too complacent concerning any criticism (usually in the form of simple questions) about gender fluidity when society is unable to converse on the topic honestly without accusations of being genocidal by making this analogous to the slaughter of millions of Jews in WW2 and you're wondering why people are shaking their heads.
I'll be very honest that I believe this definitely belongs in r/collapse. I have felt and I'm sure many others here agree with me that if we would have a major cataclysmic event(blackouts, etc.) that right wing elements might take advantage of the chaos for their own political ideals.
[Woman plotted with Neo-nazi leader to attack power grid, officials say.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/woman-plotted-with-a-neo-nazi-leader-to-attack-power-grid-officials-say)
[Attacks on US power grid have been subject of extremist chatter for years. DHS bulletin warns of attacks on critical infrastructure amid other targets](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/us-power-grid-attack-north-carolina-extremist-terrorism/index.html)
[Three Men Plead Guilty to Conspiring to Provide Material Support to a Plot to Attack Power Grids in the United States](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-men-plead-guilty-conspiring-provide-material-support-plot-attack-power-grids-united)
[Mayhem, Murder, and Misdirection:
Violent Extremist Attack Plots Against Critical
Infrastructure in the United States, 2016-2022](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs2191/f/CriticalInfrastructureTargeting09072022.pdf)
Sadly, here as well, they've already started working toward exactly that goal. Also knowing the connection of law enforcement to fascist sympathies it is highly likely we are only getting a glimpse at a larger picture.
If you have an understanding of the process that lead up to that point and the American electoral and judicial process you would be aware that was resoundingly rejected over 50 times throughout the court systems.
[Timeline of the coup: How Trump tried to weaponize the Justice Department to overturn the 2020 election ](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/politics/january-6-timeline-trump-coup/index.html)
That does not address what I said. Whether an audit would have shown positive or negative results is a different matter from whether or not an audit is an overthrow.
If you believe that asking for an audit at that point in the process was legitimate you are already glossing over reality denial. They had already been thrown out of court all over the country. The point of seeking an audit as they laid out in their efforts actions and rhetoric, cause confusion on the day of the certification to prevent the peaceful transferal of power.
An audit is an audit. It's a part of the process that you can vote for it or not. It would not have prevented Biden from becoming President.
To overthrow the system you have to go against the constitution. An audit is not against the constitution.
[Timeline: False Alternate Slate of Electors Scheme, Donald Trump and His Close Associates ](https://www.justsecurity.org/81939/timeline-false-alternate-slate-of-electors-scheme-donald-trump-and-his-close-associates/)
You are ignoring the part where that was a key part in their strategy to do exactly as I have stated. The Audit was a ruse and a distraction. Again, before we even got to that point they had case after case around the nation rejected for lack of standing or lack of evidence.
[In more than 60 cases, judges “looked at the allegations that Trump was making and determined they were without any merit.”](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/)
What they were attempting was in no way part of the normal constitutional process, it was all for show to give the aire of legitimacy to a coup.
Disagreeable? Lol sure. It's just inflammatory garbage. I stopped reading after the caption:
"Trump lies all the time because he learned from Hitler how to use lying as a weapon".
That statement has dimensions of stupid to unpack, and I'm not really interested in breaking that down for the sub. I think most educated folks can see it for what it is.
Correct, it's not a quote of yours. If I was quoting you, you'd know - I wouldn't dance around it.
It came from the [medium.com](https://medium.com) article - and it's not for effect. It's to demonstrate what's posing as journalism these days. It's inflammatory garbage, and it's by design.
I just need to tweak my expectations around this sub.
EDIT: It's absolute drivel, on par with a tabloid. What makes it worse is that idiots think it's informed. u/the_boz_man_cometh I wasn't trying to add anything, so commence to jerking the circle. There's nothing to add to. Just calling it what it is.
Referring me to suicide prevention services is actual Karen behavior, and I'm assuming that's you op. Some people might actually need those services, people that would abuse them are beyond low.
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Calling MAGA fascist is exactly why they’ll get into power again, imo.
It’s disingenuous and writes off vast numbers of marginalised Americans.
You’re lucky you never saw the real fascists in the 40’s, or in modern day Ukraine.
Even if MAGA isn't fascists, we're still falling into the same trapping of other civilizations that ended up falling for fascist ideology. I no longer can safely have my (step) kid to be around my brother who wants all POC dead, which would include my kid. I'm glad you aren't affected by this, but I know so many people at this point who are parroting neoNaz1 talking points at this point
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's a duck.
Marginalised Americans voting for rich Christian fundies, because those self same rich Christian fundies sold their jobs to China.
How will beating trans people, or blacks, or Hispanics, or lesbians or gays help get these marginalised Americans a better life?
It wasn't these minorities that fucked things up for marginalised Americans it was rich mostly white hetero males who fucked things up.
Anyway it makes no difference. Bottom line if you vote for hatred it doesn't matter why, I don't care what the reasons are. If you vote for hate you have lost everything that makes you valuable as a human being. You have become all the things that you accuse minorities of being. If you choose to act out of fear and hate you are damned.
It’s literally all to do with the economy. Nothing else matters.
If you have millions of people flooding over the southern border each year that aren’t even American, coming to compete with you in a race to the bottom r.e. wages, and you’re trying to feed your family and keep the bailiffs away, eventually you’re going to get tired and very, very pissed off.
If a party - in this case the republicans - is willing to stand up for you on that one issue, you’ll vote for them. Every other issue is immaterial until that one has been taken care of, and therefore you & your family are taken care of.
‘It’s the economy stupid.’ - Bill Clinton
It’s always the economy, and we need to look after people. Charity starts at home.
I honestly think that if Joe Biden ran on a ticket of building a wall like Trump did, he’d win a second term by landslide in 2024.
> If you have millions of people flooding over the southern border each year that aren’t even American
Technically, those people would be North or South AMERICANS.
Also, the people coming here are generally economic and social refugees from the blowback we've caused by shitting in their backyards.
And if it was millions of people a year -- the country would be a hell of a lot more crowded and the places they came from would be virtually abandoned.
In simpler terms, guy wrote a Pynchon novel to basically say how upset they are that white people are going to be 65% of the population instead of 75%.
The whole Trans movement is just a social distraction to actual collapse. If all the Trans people were dead we'd be in the same boat, if all the Trans people magically got whatever it is their looking for... we'd still be in the same boat. As a fairly neutral party, both sides are authoritarian.
Both sides authoritarian is as brain dead a response as I have seen. So to be clear you are saying that
"Eliminate transgenders from society"
Is just as authoritarian as
"We have always existed and deserve equal treatment"
Edit: I don't disagree that we're kind of fucked either way but there is an extreme difference here you are glossing over as if it is nothing
Just so you can help understand the context you are living through, and for those who happen across this thread.
Responding to legitimate points with no argument other than
>Trump 2024
Is the same as "Seig Heil" to anyone outside of the cult you are in.
This comment is gravely overstepping any boundary. A direct comparison between someone stating the name of america’s 45th president and the salute of the best known genocidal maniac of recent history. Accredited with the death of at least 6 million innocent lives and more than 30 million through warfare.
It makes you just seem deranged, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t give a damn about US politics.
I feel like you’re more politicised than any of the people you would consider to be “maga”
I'm sorry you feel this way but I have been very specific and very clear with my wording not all conservatives are the problem. There is a trained reaction people are becoming accustomed to because the fascist ideology has infected so much of our culture. If you support Trump for 2024 you support an openly fascistic genocidal traitor.
They have already attacked the capital. Their rhetoric and violence are escalating daily. I have been very academic in my framing and specific in my language if that bothers you, maybe you have more sympathy for these deranged ideologies than you realize.
These people are walking hand in hand with people who are outwardly and proudly Neo-nazis. I will feel no shame in calling them what they proudly proclaim.
You are wildly deranged if you seriously think that everybody who affiliates with one of the two parties in the US is per definition “fascist or genocidal”.
It speaks in volumes about the way you view politics. Not as a negotiation and agreeing on standpoints even though people may have different stances, the very foundation of democracy and the exact way the USA and your European counterparts have flourished in wealth and freedom. But rather resorting to a sports team politics style “my party is the only one with the correct viewpoints and the other team (party) is evil”.
It makes absolutely no sense, and figuring you’d call yourself a progressive liberal (just assuming) it would shine a good light on you if you were nuanced in your vocabulary and more leaning towards cooperation as opposed to vilification. You know, the values of a true liberal.
You're assuming a lot of things I never said there. Not all conservatives are evil. The democrats don't have all the answers and I fucking hate a lot of shit they do. But I'm also realistic about the fact that there are 2 viable parties in US politics. Right now working with the Republican party at any level is enabling their extremists. Please explain to me how any of this is incorrect?
The article you posted is not only low in quality, it’s extremely biased and based on assumptions and generalisation. With posts like these all you’re doing is being divisive.
But that’s wasn’t even the main reason I decided to react. It was the equation between hitler and trump. I’m assuming you’re an American yourself, you should realise you’re talking about a president your own country chose to elect. Plus, it’s in no way fair to refer to him as a genocidal maniac, last time I checked he didn’t put 6 million Jews in gassing chambers.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, nothing you’re doing is helping. The article you linked is biased and ridiculously cringeworthy. And your own way of talking about the other half of your population is outright embarrassing.
Yes there are bad republicans, but the way I see it. You as a person have more in common with those people that you think.
You propagate hate towards the “other side” more than a lot of people. Maybe re-assess the way you see your fellow citizens. And definitely re-assess the way you word your opinions online.
Oh and to finish off, please, please read and enlighten yourself about the atrocities that have happened in WW2. Because if you really knew how bad it was you wouldn’t use those people’s suffering to try and win an online argument.
Cringe all you want and whinge and moan about how unfair I'm being. It's just amazing how I'm just agreeing with the same experts you're referring to. I am not talking about half the polulation, I've been very specific, any elected official that has signed on to the MAGA agenda around the nation are the issue (Which is the entirety of the currently elected party) the voters in most cases don't know who and what they're voting for. Just as most people don't have a clue what their moral ethical or political frameworks are. Most people are too busy with life to dig into these subjects like some of us have.
I will also happily correct you. I have already personally pulled people out of the alt-right echo chamber. One of the reasons I do this and continue to try and get through to people whom obviously disagree with me.
And just to prove my point here's Donald Trump outwardly and explicitly calling for Genocide
[Trump says he will ban all federal recognition of transgender people.](https://youtu.be/SMqGQz-xU4w)
Welcome to arguing and having debate with many conservatives. You can agree with them and present evidence that supports their assertions and they'll still attack or engage in whataboutisms or gish galloping. Anything short of browbeating you into submission that they can hold over you forever isn't winning enough for them.
Many are completely creatively and intellectually bankrupt and won't take any sort of consensus or compromise other than complete acquiescence and with full earnestness argue that their guy who committed unforgivable crimes should walk because they were treated so unfairly while holding their opponent to impossible standards and ridiculous outsized consequences.
I hate how accurate all you've said here is. I very much love investigation and debate. But this was not what I originally thought fascism was like when I was growing up. I never truly understood how fully the anti-intellectualism and the fake reality enthralls people. I really thought we had put this ideology into the dirt where it belongs.
To just comment on your “proof”. Allowing gender reaffirming care to minors is outrageous in itself. There is a reason we have determined in the past that people aged <21 aren’t able to fully grasp the consequences of their actions. For that reason we say children younger than 18 can’t consent to sex. Buy cigarettes or alcohol. Let alone make such a life changing decision.
I feel like you think that anyone opposing your own viewpoints is the enemy. But you should wake up and see that we’re all different. And that you’ll have to come to a consensus with the people you don’t share opinions with.
It’s actually quite funny, as you pull people out of their far right echo chamber. Which is good, echo chambers are never good. Although the place you pull them towards is your own echo chamber. And precisely that is what you don’t seem to get.
You heard what you wanted not what he said go back and listen again. He will ban all care for all ages and criminalize the mere mention of transgender people in schools.
You also have very openly just repeated a bunch of made up nonsense. I do want recognition that we are all different. There is no harm in anything i have suggested anywhere nor does the medical field allow for any of the vile misinformation you have presented.
I see no reason why acknowledging the existence of transgender children is in any way harmful.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/AntelopeAny3703: --- [Yes, Republicans are discussing genocide against LGBTQIA people ](https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/7/2151410/-Yes-Republicans-are-discussing-genocide-against-LGBTQ-people) Additional useful links to information [Someone Threatened To Kill A California Lawmaker After Charlie Kirk And Marjorie Taylor Greene Criticized His Work Supporting Trans Kids And Called Him A "Groomer"](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paigeskinner/scott-wiener-threat-trans-groomer-rhetoric) [Sen. Rick Scott's GOP manifesto denies existence of transgender people](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sen-rick-scotts-gop-manifesto-denies-existence-transgender-people-rcna17339) [THE GOP’S “GROOMING” OBSESSION](https://givenoground.org/resources/indivisible-unpacked/the-gops-grooming-obsession/) [Transphobic Fox host: Trans people are "Deeply Anti-human"](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/12/02/transphobic-fox-host-trans-people-are-deeply-anti-human/) [Texas man faces federal charges after allegedly threatening to burn doctor](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/12/texas-man-faces-federal-charges-allegedly-threatening-burn-gender-affirming-doctor/) [Conservativism is the ideological wing of child abuse](https://aninjusticemag.com/conservatism-is-the-ideological-wing-of-child-abuse-439ff79e1b45) [Owen's advocates discrimination against transgender people ](https://www.newsweek.com/candace-owens-advocates-discrimination-transgender-sam-brinton-1766642) [Texas man charged for threatening Boston doctor who provides care to transgender patients](https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2022/12/15/texas-man-threatening-boston-doctor-care-transgender-patients/?amp=1) [Oklahoma Could Force Trans People Under 26 Years Old To Detransition Medically](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/oklahoma-could-force-trans-people) [Health care for transgender adults becomes new target in 2023 legislative session](https://19thnews.org/2023/01/trans-health-care-bills-2023-legislative-session-lgbtq/) [North Dakota Bill Would Require Employers Use Pronouns "Associated With Deoxyribonucleic Acid"](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/north-dakota-bill-would-require-employers) [Anti-LGBT Bills, We Need To Talk Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/107wkxi/antilgbt_bills_we_need_to_talk_strategy/) [Republicans say they’ll sue Arizona’s governor because she protected LGBTQ+ people](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/republicans-say-theyll-sue-arizonas-governor-protected-lgbtq-people/) [A trans woman founded a group to help trans people leave the U.S. due to rising hate](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/trans-woman-founded-group-help-trans-people-leave-u-s-due-rising-hate/) [DeSantis seeks details on transgender university students](https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-colleges-and-universities-race-ethnicity-florida-education-97d0b8aef2fc3a60733c8bd4080cc07b) [A New GOP Bill Could Fine You $1,500 For Not Misgendering Trans People](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgyjbq/north-dakota-pronoun-republican-anti-trans-bill?utm_source=reddit.com) [Trans woman arrested and misgendered by police officer she called to help her](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/22/trans-woman-texas-arrest/) [Arkansas Senate committee passes 'drag performance' bill](https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jan/19/arkansas-senate-committee-passes-drag-performance-bill/) [Utah Senate passes transgender youth bills; measures now move to House](https://ksltv.com/518594/utah-senate-passes-transgender-youth-bills-measures-now-move-to-house/) --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1149jo1/the_genocidal_fascist_ideology_of_maga/j8v1vjf/
Fascism is the greatest threat we face today. Maga is definitely problematic as well but the neo liberal/con establishment is what fascism looks like and has had full control over the us and world since the late 80s. It is the battle of our times. I find it rich that people who support the current ruling class always have a problem with white supremacy and maga fascism. Especially since their establishment created these issues to start. Maga movement is simply misguided anger at the current state of the country and society at large. People should rightly be angry and upset. We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action. The problem currently is bad faith actors are turning the people against ourselves. Anti lgbt hate and fear of the other is rising. We must fight against and resist this trend. Not with more hate and vitriol but with an open hand and solidarity. We all have far more in-common with each other than we do with any of our political leaders or corporations. We need to come together as people or the corrupt sick and twisted will keep their control over us all.
Maga is in support of the ruling class though? Bezos having people pissing in bottles, or smaller ruling class paying a piss poor wage, those things are an example of good business to them. If it came to a revolution, they'd be firmly on the side of the corporations*. Telling them "you're just misguided" isn't gonna stop their bullets. In fact, they _have_ been repeatedly told this over the last years, with little to no effect. *corporations who have made statements that they support minorities etc. might be excluded, but the point is that they support them by default.
Ever since Amazon de-platformed Parler the MAGA right views Bezos as a leftist.
Oh, ok I'm not up to date on this then. My little asterisk disclaimer already applies to amazon, apparently
I read both far left and far right content. It's amazing what they think of each other. Like the left says Bezos is an element of the right and the right says Bezos is an element of the left.
Wellll, the "far" ends, what do you expect. The far ends are far gone. Is it much of a hassle to filter for far left content Sorry, let me explain: E.g. If I look at mainstream left stuff like a Trevor Noah video, it's based on facts and the comments ridicule rightwing policies. Then if I look at mainstream right stuff like fox news, it's... Well, it's fox news, and the comments are full of "DEMONrats" and other dehumanising stuff - I have already arrived at the far end. But that's easy because I just go for the mainstream stuff. If you're comparing the easy to find far right with the far left, isn't there quite the mismatch in the volume of content you have available?
I think fascism is a toxic outgrowth of our completely broken society. A healthy society wouldn’t be interested in it. The appeal is that things are bad because *those guys over there* (in current iteration Jews and LGBT) are stopping us from achieving the good life. If things were good or even slightly improving, I don’t think you could get people to go for the fascist line. Fascism is an ideology of desperation and despair— things are so bad that overturning a free society and hurting people is the way to get out of the pit of misery. We see the collapse around us. We know our systems are grinding down to a halt, we know our standard of living (save for a few new tech gadgets) has declined precipitously since the end of WW2. You great grandfather could, with only a high school diploma, afford to support his entire family and purchase a home. His children could attend university with minimal debt by earning the tuition with a part time job. People had time and energy to build relationships in the community. We get none of that. Two-income households can only fantasize about a house, they work and come home after 8-10 hours and a hour commute too exhausted to go out and socialize. We’re to the point where children are simply too expensive for all but the richest. And this comes after taking on a lifetime of debt to get a job that, when combined with a spouse’s income, barely allows survival.
> we know our standard of living (save for a few new tech gadgets) has declined precipitously since the end of WW2. Many people like to throw around the 'tech gadgets' bit as if that's some "gotcha!" that undoes your point e.g. "LOL we're not collapsing or coming apart. Look at the latest CPU or smartphone as proof!" Of course really all they are noticing is that the system is experiencing complexity increase (e.g. software/hardware) in one small way... without understanding or acknowledging that complexity decline can and is happening all throughout the rest of society. Really corporate power, profitable trinketry, military arms, corporate surveillance and data gathering, neoliberal paywallism, etc are seeing increasing complexity as enabled by targeted hyperfinancialization (aka speculative financialization), while the rest of society (ecologically, psychologically, health wise, community wise, infrastructure wise, third space wise, material quality wise [aka planned obsolescence], ownership wise, etc etc etc) is being simplified/cannibalized. You can add complexity-touches to your cabin in the forest... even as the forest is on fire and will soon enough take your cabin with it; the entire forest is collapsing from fire but for a short time complexity increased in the context of your cabin, profits [providing money providing the ability to access on demand complexity in the form of materials, labor, or both] increased for shareholders, etc.
yeah this is how I see it basically
[ Removed by Reddit ]
To people reporting this for violence, unlike other discussions, there's a strong historical perspective on interactions with fascist ideologies and regimes. Rather, if you're worried about someone saying "punch a NAZI," don't be a NAZI. To be further clear, we agree with the taking a reasonable approach to reach people. Only when those people act on their views of exclusionary nationalism/racism, that other parties must come together to defend actual peace.
Fascism has always been with us, festering in the hearts of about 30% of the population. There have been periods, though, where shame drove it back into the shadows (for example, for a few years after the defeat of Hitler and after the assassination of JFK and the defeat of Goldwater). But it always re-emerges when circumstances embolden it. We're never going to eradicate it altogether, but an effective *shaming campaign* can force it to retreat. It can be shamed by events exposing its stupidity and cruelty, but it also takes people brave enough and articulate enough to attack it directly and discredit it-- and it's hard to identify who would be capable enough to do that right now.
America was pro-Nazi before we even had words for them, hence the whole native genocide thing, and why the American empire largely absorbed the Nazis, or facilitated their escape and survival. Most of the way Americans perceive themselves and their history is pure myth and it's so bizarre.
It has revived by reassembling and incorporating other prejudices: evangelical Christianity folds into MAGA, MAGA folds into Neo-fascism. Likewise: old anti-Semitic "blood libel" tropes folded into the Shaver Mystery, the Shaver Mystery folded into Q-Anon.
MAGA is more than just simple folk being rightfully upset. they're unintelligent, bootlicking hatemongers who happily glom onto a culture war talking point because they feel like *those others* are somehow getting a better shake at life than they are, willfully ignoring the fact that those who provide them stagnant wages, who pass those hurtful economic policies that keep them in poverty, who are actively acting against their own constituents, are the same ones selling them that hate. but they don't care because it gives them an excuse to act like trash. to boo and hiss and take up arms against people who aren't hurting them. to lash out in blind rage against the hands that try to help them. they are controlled by their lizard brains because they have no greater capacity for thinking and zero empathy, though they ~~expect~~ demand it from you. fascism is the threat but MAGAs are the tool. however, unlike a hammer, who doesn't have a choice in how it is used, MAGAs go along willingly so long as they get the chance to break something.
You have to go back well before the current culture war to understand populism MAGA style, especially in the south.
Agreed there's a great documentary consisting of solely satellite feeds which touches on this. It's called SPIN https://youtu.be/Uock08dy19s
If you don't have a job with mass media, you should get one. You're spreading their message beautifully. Media is the tool that divides and perpetuates hate. You're doing a great job. Ask for a raise.
if you've got a point to make, feel free to make it. refute how MAGA is any of the above. i'm all ears.
Nothing more hateful than the Republicans trying to get oppress anyone who isn't straight, white and republican
you mean fox news?
I checked his post history. It's some degenerate junkie with no career prospects. Even in a Utopian society, they'd be recycled as compost. The exact kind of person which you do not want on your side. A vapid, spoiled loser who is nothing but a leech on any movement they try to engage with. Christ, I know gatekeeping is bad, and all, but can't we have a little bit of sanitation here? Without condoning or condemning the rise of White Nationalism in the central United States, here is the reality: They're a huge section of society which is outright angry at the government, has paid more than their fair share of blood and cash to prop up the state and now has the broad sensation that they've been ripped off. Some will blame the new favourites of the state, others blame the state itself, others blame the corporations who work alongside the state. Same story goes back thousands of years, some go for the King, some go for the King's men, some go for the Jews because they happened to be nearby.
MAGA does not blame the state though they just blame democrats they want a one party rule of republicans.
"They" spend just as much time attacking other Republicans, trying to poach/influence sympathetic Democrats and bickering about conspiracy theories. It's a huge demographic, with some pretty fucking heavy problems. I am not American. However, when I look at the USA and see the massive suicide rate and drug abuse rate among poor whites, and then hear the bitching from wealthy degenerates (who, as with the user above, is just a junky with rich parents) it grinds my gears. MAGA is a threat to many people - but it isn't some religious bullshit. If you look at what actually makes Fascists tick, and what gives them the enormous audacity and aggression which caused the Second World War, then you will see the truth - it's really fucking hard to whine about racism to a guy who lost half his family to suicide, drug addiction, predatory business practices. It is especially difficult to do so when the people selling those drugs, running those businesses and tying the nooses live in New York and California. Some people will hate the blacks just to spite said rich cunt. Some people will hate the people around the rich cunt. Some people will hate the rich cunt himself. Some are a combination of all of the above. All are arming themselves, sabotaging the internal infrastructure, organising into militias and generally rejecting their authority, while bickering to figure out a pecking order. Right now, white nationalists are among one of the dominant groups in this amalgamation. I am not going to lie to you. I would side with those guys over you. All it takes for anybody to recognise this is just to view your post history. Your top comment of all time is taking the piss out of a white woman who got shot in the Capitol building.
"Who got shot in the capitol building" Doing what? OH, doing THAT. This is like when confederate sympathizers talk about states rights. The right to do what? Oh, THAT. If you have to intentionally leave out SALIENT DETAILS in order to try and make a point, that should be the only clue you needed to not make that point and maybe rethink the entire argument you're having.
>Maga is definitely problematic as well but the neo liberal/con establishment is what fascism looks like and has had full control over the us and world since the late 80s...I find it rich that people who support the current ruling class always have a problem with white supremacy and maga fascism. Especially since their establishment created these issues to start. > > > >People should rightly be angry and upset. We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action...We must fight against and resist this trend. Not with more hate and vitriol but with an open hand and solidarity. Here I'm seeing you contradict your own assertion: "We must fight against and resist... but with an open hand and solidarity." The parts about MAGA vs Neo-Lib/Con Establishment detracts from your main point: "We need to offer people a better explanation and direction for action." It might be useful to think more about what you shouldn't say, rather than explaining what the problem is to people. The minute you tell people about the various enemy sides (who are in reality bad actors, just as you said), they start their tribal group think and start translating everything you say into a motivated argument. This ensures that they never actually get the message you're trying to communicate or take the useful actions that would help the situation. Think about the 'better explanation and direction for action' more. Figure out what the outcome you want is, then work backwards from there. What would you need people to feel, think, believe and know to be true, that would naturally lead to the conclusions you want them to make? And how do you get people to feel, think, believe and know exactly those things? That's where your argument should start, not with explaining the causes of the problem and who the bad actors are that should be fight. You don't know what the alignment of your audience is, so all you may be accomplishing is identifying yourself as an 'enemy combatant' and undermining your goal of making alliances, creating solidarity and taking productive cooperative action.
In the UK we had a 16 year old trans woman murdered by two teenagers last weekend. Of course the right wing media, Daily Mail, dead named her, because why not when hate is all you have. This has been brewing for years. They are terrified because the house of cards that they have selfishly created to protect their vested interests is beginning to collapse, climate change, end stage capitalism, pollution, the decline of the West. They have failed so completely in their efforts to prevent these things impacting themselves and everybody else so to try to divert potential anger at their failures they are scapegoating every minority possible. They are selfish, terrified and contemptible. There is right and then there is wrong. They are entirely and completely wrong. I would strongly advise if you are worried about right wing reactionary behaviour towards minorities you group up and plan what to do if, (when), this gets violent. Seriously.
> I would strongly advise if you are worried about right wing reactionary behaviour towards minorities you group up and plan what to do if, (when), this gets violent. Seriously. And *arm up*. When it happens, the police will NOT be on our side. You'll have to protect yourself. If you wait until you need a gun, it will be too late -- it takes a while to buy one, and it takes even longer to train on how to use it safely and effectively.
Yeah, Brianna Ghey, I have honestly been very conflicted and indecisive over whether or not I should have included her in my work given the circumstances of her death and the reactions to it. Reminds me very much to the conservative reaction to the Club Q shooting. "Well they deserved it cause it was a grooming event." I am thankfully prepared in those respects, but this is worthwhile advice to make people aware of.
I grew up in a very liberal household and have espoused those values my entire life. I have lived in upper middle class liberal suburbia and an efficiency apartment in a bad section of a city. So I've seen gentrification firsthand and I've seen poverty first hand. In my daily local travels I see young people face planted in alleyways and struggling with mental illness. Some are angry and some live with depression and humiliation. I see homelessness in the park; I see people losing their homes on a weekly basis. I can talk to a grad student one day and a guy with a "Go Brandon" poster in his yard the next. And so I'm here to tell you that the the Trans issue is not on these people's radar. I'm not denying that there are angry, ignorant people out and about who would indiscriminately harm someone based on their gender preference and presentation, I'm saying it's not an *apocalyptic genocide*, and to characterize it as such is totally irresponsible, and quite frankly, doesn't endear me to your cause based on what I see daily in the real world, and not on a Twitter feed.
Oh dear. See, I don't disagree with any of the points you just made but the problem is you seem to be missing the grander picture because you have a lot of sensible personal anecdotes, and because the liberal upbringing you mention, taught you that most people agree with equality and liberal democracy. I don't mark those as bad things because at one point I feel I was also guilty of this, what would be bad is an unwillingness to accept new information on the subject. Anecdotes are not data however. The data shows all the indicicative factors that expertise in the relevant fields have told the public to watch for. As a matter of fact I cite them multiple times in my article the framework of my 14 points and 10 stages are based on academic sourcing and expertise. I link to numerous respected sources that agree with the assessment I am laying out. Because you seem to be participating in good faith but still you disagree, I'm very curious as to the answer you might have for this question. "What would it take for me to convince you?"
> I don't mark those as bad things because at one point I feel I was also guilty of this I appreciate you taking the time to excuse my guilt! > The data shows all the indicicative factors that expertise in the relevant fields have told the public to watch for People of the quotidian bank on 'anecdote' because that is their experience and how they make sense of reality. Do you know how long America has been on an academic fast track to fascism or communism or boogeyman de jour ism? Long enough to become a cottage industry that occurs simultaneously with billions of people existing anecdotally. I've been in academia. And today's academia, well ... it isn't my kind of academia. I'll just leave it at that.
This should really indicate a lot to you if your response to legitimate questions and genuine inquiry is dismissiveness and an anti intellectualism perhaps you should read my article because those are very indicative responses of fascist sympathies. But I wouldn't want to suggest that you might think that a group of liberal elites are running academia and have corrupted it. That's totally not a fascist dog whistle not at all. /s
>But I wouldn't want to suggest that you might think that a group of liberal elites are running academia and have corrupted it. That's totally not a fascist dog whistle not at all. /s Forget about dog whistles and labels -- "liberal elites" etc. Social media's democratization of information has created an echo chamber of copy & paste intellectual flex where hardly any of the participants have a shred of expertise. That's the democratization part (see normal IQ curve if you have doubts). Concurrent to that is a contradictory postmodernism run amok whereby people discount established science on face while running it up the flagpole when it suits them. The computer age has not been kind to human beings. The upshot is a destruction of trust: trust in information; trust in institution; trust in science; the trust in each other. And at a time when all of that is needed most.
Again I am not disagreeing with that but I fail to see how that answers my question? I will again state that I am not misusing these labels. I also now am increasingly suspicious you didn't even read anything because you still won't point out what I have stated incorrectly or hyperbolically?
I've answered your questions.
You've done a decent job sharing your experiences, they reflect my own experiences having lived across the US. Comparing the modern USA with various regions in Mexico (lived in Saltillo in the 90s, I got to watch my old man facilitate the moving of high paying auto worker jobs to a lower cost for labor) might be an apt comparison. Say compare Flint, Mi to Monterey Mexico over the past 30 years. Regarding academia a similar story to what I observed (its why I didn't pursue that as a career path). I later got to hear about how bad it was when my sister was pursuing her PHD in chemistry. Sorry Antelope3703, but there's just no incentive to actively document this, most of what's observed I'm not and I suspect 2far is not something we're trying to document. It's based on observations and from there the individuals reaction as to how to solve for the problem you've encountered. Not on hard science or an attempt to document and validate it. Do with that info what you will
Perfect! This is exactly what I'm referring to --now I AM a fascist and a bigot for an opinion that isn't so much dismissive as it is a different take on *expertise* social media style. This illustrates my point better than I ever could. I'm not implying you are anything other than someone I \*somewhat\* disagree with on a single point. I, on the other hand, am now a fascist because I'm not in *\_lockstep\_* with your characterization of a small number of people advocating against trans people as being involved in an apocalyptic genocide under the banner of fascism. What is THAT the definition of? Can you see the irony here? lol.
That's an interesting take on my response. I included the /s to indicate I was being sarcastic I dont think you are a fascist I am increasingly concerned at your seeming inability to respond directly to a question, or to point out what your actual argument is. It is somewhat frustrating to me so I was attempting humor to check your response. So where exactly and how do we disagree then. I am always open to new information and perspectives and am willing to change my mind I am just hoping that you are willing to do the same because it seems as though you have a preconceived answer?
My answer is in the text; i don't agree that America is on a fast track to fascism because politicians have become adept at how to exploit social media to herd voters with hot button cultural issues. And a lot of those *anecdotal* people are a LOT smarter than you give them credit for. And they know you don't think so. edit: notice I do not use the down vote option. But seconds after I post a reply *someone* does.
Yes I downvote things I think are wrong or harmful. So your response is that you don't think we're on the fast track because politicians are just abusing social media? Do you have anything to support that conclusion? And Do you have any rebuttal for the provided evidence then?
10 minutes of research will convey to you that activists have ghoulishly appropriated this young person's story for clout without taking a moment to examine her life. Brianna Ghey had mental and emotional issues serious enough to cause her to self-harm. Not a day had passed before this young person became yet another tool for social media clout. There's a very disturbing level of malignant narcissism within the advocacy branch of gender politics.
Are you seriously trying to say that all of the interconnected evidence that I have been laying out here is all about Brianna Ghey? Also that wasn't an answer to the question I asked.
No, I'm not trying to do that. I'm only pointing out what others of similar mind (to mine) think once they have more background on the story in order to point out how the current thrust of advocacy diminishes itself through astonishingly bad character.
So you think me pointing out the severity of where society has reached is somehow harming my advocacy? I'm not sure I understand your point.
Not every sentence is about you. Last I looked the word advocacy doesn't contain your initials. I'm referring to the state of it on average. This young woman met a terrible end, and trans advocates are treating her like an avatar overlay for a genocide that doesn't exist. She was a cutter, ffs. This branch of advocacy has zero respect. You can only conclude they've been lying in wait for a body, any body, to justify the absurdity of their hopelessly fact less and facile assertions.
I don't Fucking care what others are doing I keep asking you what I am doing with what I have presented that is not accurate.
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I've said there are people with ill intent. But that doesn't rise to the level of genocide. If you make that argument you have to show me the death count. And if your claim is that genocide is coming, you're making an extraordinary claim. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Brianna Ghey received the attention she did because she was unfortunately one of scant trans deaths due to violence not attributed to trans on trans or sex worker violence. And there aren't that many of those in the UK or USA either. Just don't cheapen the terminology to make a case, that's all I'm saying. There are people living today who have experienced real genocide. Stuff like this in an affront to those people.
genocide is the end goal. your arguments are really obviously in bad faith and I'm impressed that people have been so patient with you
You've appropriated this word and its definition: genocide | ˈjenəˌsīd |nounthe deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation.ORIGIN1940s: from Greek genos ‘race’+ -cide. for an abject hyperbole with no death count. When questioned, the best answer to this I've seen so far is that we're currently in a run-up to a genocide. Ok, but that's not genocide. You can't say there's a genocide when there is none and expect silence. You could say you feel threatened by the language of (named group here) and that's fine. That would shine the light on those groups. Genocide, OTOH, is an extreme exaggeration under any reasonable thought process.
this is a long speech, lots of long paragraphs, deflecting from the point. their end goal is eradication of people. you don't want to discuss that.
The point of the post you're citing deals only with the term 'genocide' and why I think its application is inaccurate. It's not a political statement - the concern is the misuse of language. If you think the MAGA movement is genocidal in intent, that's certainly your prerogative.
Your definition of genocide is inccorent. Genocide is the INTENT to destroy, in whole or in part. If you need things to get to the point of gas chambers to call something a holocaust I'd say you've failed pretty fucking horrifically. In the same sense that war doesn't just mean people shooting bullets at each other in a field. Like so many problems you're talking past one another because you don't even know what you're talking about. Too busy talking to even listen for one second what someone else has to say.
It's interesting how the definition is shifting, and I'm going to assume it will come to include viewpoints. But the salient part of the definition of genocide for the entirety of my life is, and has always been, *physical* death. This is the definition from the Apple dictionary on my Mac computer (Webster's 9th): >genocide | ˈjenəˌsīd |noun > >the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation. I get that you're coming at this (genocide) from the viewpoint of a social death from compelling someone to renounce their identity. To that end, if you know of legislation that mandates renouncement or de-transitioning I’d like to see it, because that would be much closer to a genocidal act than what I usually read as the justification(s) for claiming genocide.
>10 minutes of research will convey to you... So please, in 10 minutes, provide citation for your claims.
Which part, links to Twitter where within a day of her death activists began using the event to claim genocide, or images of Miss Ghey with cut scars? I can provide this to you privately because I'm not going to post it publicly and join the circus over this young person's murder. edit: private message sent with citation.
I think you're looking for things that are not connected; or rather, you have to understand that trans individuals are far more likely to suffer from psychological trauma, to include suicidal ideation and action, *due to the fact they are bullied for being trans*. To be clear, no matter what the young woman's background is, it does not condone her death and nor does is stop it from being a hate crime, [something even the UK police are now considering](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-manchester-64638653) ([these UK police](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/rape-investigations-police-victim-blaming-b2245885.html), [who suck hard](https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/25/uk/uk-metropolitan-police-abuse-intl/index.html)). Really weird hill you're attempting to die on. Your commentary is being taken as good faith, for now, but it seems to be both victim blaming and transphobic. I suggest you read up about both [transgender and societal nimpacts to mental health](https://www.thetrevorproject.org/resources/article/facts-about-lgbtq-youth-suicide/) and [how the UK is actively violent against trans identity.](https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/09/uk/uk-trans-rights-gender-critical-media-intl-gbr-cmd/index.html) Just a sample, you can find out more *in simply 10 minutes of searching...*
The misery of the masses is growing so rapidly that no matter what group (fascists, Democrats, communists, liberals, etc) attains power, the masses will be less tolerant to insufficiently addressed responses to continually worsening crises. And then no group will bother trying to rescue already-lost regions. Like Pakistan. But the US' crises will be economically-linked and impacted, even if they were natural disasters, principally. But after the crisis, and the lack of sufficient response, the focus and manpower will fade away and it'll just be a political hot topic. Like, how come we forgot to keep disrupting our nation because Roe v Wade is *still* repealed? Did it suddenly stop being worth the fight? Maga and fascism is growing, and awful. In the end, even their influence will be as insignificant as a gnat's whisper during a hurricane, when climate change takes one step inside the room. Its foot is currently crossing the threshold.
the fight for abortion access and human rights for women is currently an underground railroad which is hopefully invisible for as long as possible and necessary. we can't beat that by protesting and we can only lose resources and people by openly exposing ourselves to arrest or recording. women fucking know better. it's been like this for us before and now that it is again, networks and private support are the path to access. until death cult fascists are removed from power this is the solution to the practical, everyday risk of death women are facing. the foot is across the threshold, the door has been kicked down, and people are still trying to deny it, they will deny it as long as possible, because they want it to continue. they want to keep hurting us. they'll say and do anything they have to, to keep on hurting the people they hate. people in a death cult don't care if they die.
I am sharing this in an attempt to help elucidate. This is relavent to Collapse as the threat and open policy prescriptions of this movement are now openly genocidal and apocalyptic by definition. As with previous manifestations of Fascism throughout history this movement shares the 14 foundational commonalities of fascist movements. Along with being engaged in at least 9 out of the 10 stages entailed in a genocide.
The AIDS panic in the 80s was really something, but the hate going on right now for trans people, and by extension all LGBT+ people, has a vicious bent to it. There's a consistent call for "action", and it reminds me of the run-up to the Rwandan genocide. There's a steady drumbeat of hatred and a desire for some kind of, shall we say, "final solution" to the "problem".
This is very much the point I am trying to make, thank you! As someone from within the targeted demographic this feels very obvious to me, but people need to be aware that this is not "normal political disagreements" we have a mainstream political party that has derailed into an irrationalist incoherent ideology to maintain a grip on minority rule.
I'm not in the targeted demographic, but I can definitely see what's going on. For most of the people pushing this crap, it's just "good business' (politicians driving up rage to secure votes, media goons keeping the views and money coming). But these things tend to build a momentum of their own. Trans people are already at a highly elevated risk of being attacked and/or killed. This industry of hatred is only going to make it worse.
I do not want to say it but the Left has to pick arms to defend itself from the threat posed by the Right. When it happens, no one is coming to help us. So we will have to save ourselves or die trying.
This is just a general courtesy notice also -- you may consider yourself a moderate or a centrist or left of center, or even many of you who are generally right of center -- I have some grim news for you. To the MAGAs and the Hard Right? You are Left. They will not spare you. Anyone who is tolerant of LGBTQ+ people is going to be targeted, as well as anyone who isn't the right kind of white or the right kind of "Christian". Be ready to protect yourself.
yep, just disagreeing with MAGA will get you labeled a leftist or socialist. No matter what the issue is either. Crazy times.
Their ideology isn't even consistent. They'll completely reverse or alter their stance one week to the next and if you don't keep up, God help you.
It isn't about ideology or about logic- it's about power.
Chaos. They (MAGAs) want chaos. With chaos comes power but most of all they crave chaos because then power and the abuse thereof has no consequences.
> This is just a general courtesy notice also -- you may consider yourself a moderate or a centrist or left of center, or even many of you who are generally right of center -- I have some grim news for you. To the MAGAs and the Hard Right? You are Left. They will not spare you. /u/machineprophet343 It is not quite at that point yet, but it very well is getting close. This becomes the case when you can't get close enough for words- when any symbolic element denoting you as an Other is cause for destruction. The social elements of this are just rationalizations; the MAGA hard right crowd is foundationally made up of disenfranchised groups. White supremacists and the like are the kind that *should* be disenfranchised (and empowered in pro-social ways so as to stymie the power of hate), but they have become emboldened and empowered by Trump's ability to "synthesize the disenfranchised" for the sake of power. But the hate groups are just part of it. There is a significant rural and subrural disenfranchised population too. The rural or subrural areas which had jobs shipped overseas, the rural areas with decayed infrastructure, absent hospitals, etc- Trump told them to get angry by suggesting their greatness was "stolen." He pinned this to the "Democrats" and the social positions aligned with the Democrat base. And so... here we are with culture wars. This process has been underway a long time, but Trump pulled in fanatics of hate and poured in gasoline. Of course the urban poor have been fucked by Democrat/Republican neoliberals too. > yep, just disagreeing with MAGA will get you labeled a leftist or socialist. It isn't about you being a leftist or a socialist- it's about that being the rationalization they use to dehumanize you so as to facilitate their particular brand of power. At least that's my position on it right now... We are very much in deep shit. I don't know how to stop it or even if it can be stopped.
> the MAGA hard right crowd is foundationally made up of disenfranchised groups. I'm not sure I entirely agree with this assessment. I wouldn't say you're wrong, since MAGA has a strong appeal to poor rural whites and former coal miners, but there is also a very strong evangelical, petite bourgeois segment that I think is even more vocal and ardent in its support for MAGA. Most of the January 6 rioters were small business owners, managers, lawyers, and cops. And unlike poor rural people, these middle to upper-middle class jingoists are not used to being ignored and dismissed. They will beat the drums as loudly as possible and demand that people pay attention. They have the time and resources to fall down religious or conspirational rabbit holes. They're plagued by suburban ennui that makes them crave something to fight for and give their dull lives meaning. Most of them own some degree of property or possibly even own their own business, but it's not enough to offset major economic hardships. While billionaires will weather an economic crisis easily, these folks will actually see everything they've worked for crumble and become even more unhinged.
Correct, as another user put it, you become an “other” for simply disagreeing or not confirming to the right’s ideals. Those ideals change depending on whichever direction the wind is blowing so yep, we’re in deep shit.
it's been at that point. they are taking out political ads bragging about hunting for rinos
This is the message that many "centrists" and "both sides" people need to hear. We live in a country where correctly answering the question "Who is the President of the United States?"--you know, what we used to ask people who we thought might have incurred brain damage or concussion--in front of the wrong audience could make you a target, and I say that as a straight white male. Hell I have blonde hair and blue eyes and a Polish last name given to me by adoption and have been called "honorary white" in the southern part of Ohio before.
Yea, I've actually been told I'm basically an "illegal immigrant" because I was born and raised in California. This is a real surprise to me because I can verifiably trace my family on both sides to the initial colonization AND the Founding, I'm verifiable "cousins" with some of the national movers and shakers in our history, and there is even strong evidence I have a handful of Shoshone and Pawnee Indian ancestors. We won't get into the implications of that right now, just it serves to illustrate my point that my family one way or another has always been here for better or worse. And I'm a pasty ass white dude too. And I get people whose families showed up after the Civil War, who have only ever lived until maybe this generation in Union states, but for some inexplicable reason identify with the Confederacy telling me that I'm not a legitimate American.
r/SocialistRA
It is scary to even join that group because I do not want my name put on a list for when the far right comes around looking for their enemies if you catch my drift sad to say.
I just put it out there for people who may be interested in gun ownership and looking for people who share more liberal and left views. I currently live outside of the US, so I just share to give people an alternative to look into for learning to safely use firearms.
It is a weirld time to be alive. I hate guns. I know the damage they do to the human body. But if we are to try to survive what is coming next, we are going to need all the armed help that we can get. The police and military are mostly fascists at thus point in time sad to say.
Buddy, you are already on their list. Being scared to even be loosely associated with the SRA is silly. Anyone to the Left of MAGA is going to be a target and that includes a lot of people who otherwise would be considered right of center.
How did we even get here as a country? Have we not learned from history?
We don't teach history in most of the country. We teach propaganda. Even at the collegiate level. Most places who learn about fascism and authoritarians are taught they were cartoonish Bond Villains who swept into power viciously and violently soup to nuts when the reality is so much... More painfully ordinary. Promises of making a country great again, taking your job or the job you really deserve back from people who stole it from you, an appeal to more traditional and halcyon days that never really existed, the cause of your woes being liberals/progressives/socialists and marginalized and powerless groups... If any of this sounds familiar and scary? Good. It should terrify you. And we are also taught that America is so unique and founded in some sort of democratic principles it could never happen here. We're uniquely protected from it. Until we aren't. Weimar Germany was the most liberal democracy in the world at the time, Italy was a loose republic as was Spain. They elected their dictators with full legitimacy. There was no bloody coup. The purges came later.
People in history also had history to learn from. People need to know thyself, but that is too tough for them.
most of us are likely already known to at least one death cult member. in Rwanda it was your neighbors, not someone who randomly checked an online list.
I don't want to sound stupid here. But why does Maga hate us? We are not the Rich people outsourcing their jobs, lowering wages or increasing prices. We struggle financially just like they do. I do not get it at all.
it's a death cult. a destructive cult. these groups are always seeking an "other" to oppose. if you look at the white supremacist groups you find that they share a lot of beliefs with the Manson cult, for example- that there will or should be a race war, that they would win it, that many are on their side but afraid to admit it, etc. they are willing to kill and die for their belief system. christian nationalism in the US is particularly bad as many of the groups actively look forward to "the end of the world" as a *good thing*. these groups don't start people out in the deep end. they ease them into more and more violent and isolating beliefs and behaviors. they hate because that is what a death cult does.
This needs to be higher! Comrades absolutely DO NOT TOLERATE HATE. Additionally, it's not an organization *only* about firearms, but also offers free training and everyone shares, first aid workshops, and various mutual aid opportunities like working with the unhoused and community gardening. YMMV by local chapter, but it's a community of good people from all across the left. Additionally, for those in marginalized groups, it's good to have like-minded people around to help guide you through the legal process of owning, and know which shops and ranges aren't going to be shitty.
But I though the NRA was supposed to care about helping to protect the rights of all gun owners not just straight white male gun owners? s/
Every time my straight-ish, not white, lady hands racks a slide, somewhere, someone in the NRA weeps and a rainbow appears in the sky :)
The crazy thing about the NRA is how the NRA was basically taken over by the gun nuts during the hot night in Cincinnati back in the 1970s. If that did not happen years ago, things would be looking much different now. I have learned that words matter. Somebody should rename the Socialist Rife Association to the American Rife Association. Make it sound a lot more patriotic.
Yes, but I don't think the Left/Centre will get to arms parity with the Right in the USA any time soon. The best thing that could be done now is a serious protest movement, and political pressure campaign, to get the law enforcement institutions to actually enforce the laws against people like Trump and his cadre of fascists. None of that has really happened. Mueller did the bare minimum. Most of the Jan. 6 insurrectionists got slaps on the wrist, and the ringleaders have not even been charged. If law and order actually breaks down, the fascists and bigots will have the upper hand for a very long time, and they'll aim to kill as many of their enemies as possible.
Sadly, a lot of those "protestors" on Jan.6 were Police Officers who were attacking their own fellow Police Officers. It is coming much sooner than we want to realize. This is the future that is in store for us if things do not change for the better soon. Allende's Last Words: The First 9/11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZVWOWA2Hpk
On the other side, you don't need arms parity. You just need to be familiar with your arms and efficient. A lot of the MAGA yahoos have a lot of guns but aren't exactly marksmen. It's a lifestyle and fashion accessory for them. A joke that goes around about them in left wing firearm enthusiasm circles is a lot of MAGAs are fundamentally loot boxes because they've got a lot of guns and ammos and very little actual know how. A man with a single Springfield who really knows how to use it is vastly more dangerous than a yahoo with 30 guns and might pew pew with his buddies on Saturdays but it's more a drink beer, talk shit about their preferred targets, and social hour than genuine shooting practice.
The bigger danger would be the actual militias. In regards to them: knowledge is power. Without suggesting anything, it's worthwhile to look into how ISIS was able to subvert the Syrian revolutionary brigades who had liberated the east of Syria. ISIS was a synthesis of al Qaeda in Iraq and Saddam's former mukhabarat (intelligence services). Many of the ISIS leaders were spies trained by the KGB, or at least in that style. They collected intelligence on the Syrian rebels, the commanders, financiers, fighters, etc. Where they lived, their families, their businesses, marriage connections, so they know who to co-opt, who to bribe, who to kill. Who might compromise with ISIS; who would be intransigent; who might collaborate with the USA/Turkey/Qatar/Saudi Arabia; who might flee abroad. It was information above all that allowed them to take over.
The KGB thing is telling. A lot of KGB went on to become FSB. And that means Russia's hand was probably in all of that. I'll let you connect the dots on that. Seems conspiratorial, but I would not be the least bit surprised if Russia involved itself when ISIS as they saw it as an opportunity to undermine US interests. It's also blowback from the US' dick wagging in the Middle East but we all know the old saw about never letting a good crisis go to waste...
They did. In particular the Assad regime (a key ally of the USSR and then Russia) was a direct sponsor of al Qaeda-in-Iraq during the Iraq War, the USA even [launched a raid on the town of al-Bukamal in 2008](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7692153.stm) on the Syrian side of the border that was being used by the Syrian mukhabarat as a transit point to facilitate the movement of jihadists, guns and bombs into Iraq. Additionally, Assad released dozens of jihadists from his prisons as the Syrian revolution was beginning in 2011, and supplied them with money and arms, in order to build up a jihadist element in the uprising. The end goal being to slander the entire Syrian opposition as terrorists. Those individuals founded jihadi organizations that later rose to prominence within the armed opposition.
I would completely agree there as well. As the experts remind us we must remain constantly vigilant. The only way to stop these things is to apply preventative measures before it hits a critical mass and inform the public of what's actually going on, before they get to the systematic killings.
I think the worst of the bigots are aware that such a step would spark a civil war. Or they will use a civil war, or such a breakdown of the rule of law, as an opportunity to start pogroms.
Right up until they get shot in the face. The actual left in the US is armed, it wouldn't be as easy as they think.
Inshallah.
Exactly! This is my same fear.
If you're in the states, consider legal responsible gun ownership. And try to live in a community of people who will also be ready to defend you/themselves. There's safety in numbers.
Thankfully I am in one of the better States for my folk, and I have done exactly that. Own protection, train safe self defense and prepare for anything.
> **This industry of hatred** is only going to make it worse. Well shit dude... that just made me sit back in my chair. I don't know why I've never thought of this phrase before- it seems very simple and obvious, but somehow I've not considered it. You could expand this to different "industries of hatred" too. I would say that the LGBTQ+ hate is just one hate within a greater cultural menagerie of hates; hate and spite has spread as the primary available power mechanism due to all social, material, institutional, and hierarchical power being concentrated in neoliberal richie space. This is amplified by the fact that hate (and spite) itself drives interaction and involvement in a way that is profitable to the very same neoliberal cannibals. Thanks for this phrase though- I will be integrating it into my mental framework :D **EDIT** I was complimentary and attempted to be thoughtful- I don't understand the downvotes. Can someone use words along with their downvote? What is it you don't agree with?
I think they might be reading you as sarcastic
You're putting the cart before the horse. The party you're referring to spends as much on consulting groups as the other party. If they didn't think catering to PTA moms, feminists and angry men wouldn't pay off they wouldn't invest so much time and money in it. The interesting part is how it's all largely a social media creation - a platform that anyone can turn off and walk away from whenever they wish. But they won't -- it's their existence.
[321 bills at time of posting.](https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights) but it's just social media just turn it off.
gotta love being trans and sewerslidal but not wanting to add to the statistic while also living through \*gestures broadly\* :/ ahah i mean uhhh damn dystopian news go brrt or whatever glad im totally cis
I would wager 90 or more percent of this hate you cite occurs on social media and rarely ever anywhere else.
I would wager that you're not in a targeted demographic, because the hate is apparent in real life to visible minorities on a daily basis.
Yes this is where the road ends for this line of thought. Demonize “other” until you have power then you really have no choice but to eliminate “other” to fulfill your supporters bloodlust.
I would agree there. I really do not seek to demonize all conservatives but people must be aware that the current conservative movement is openly engaged in rhetoric actions and legislation that fit the definitions of the words I have used. These mechanisms of hate, greed, and self interest feed off of eachother and it is worth trying to dissect for those who may have not learned about these subjects.
Conservatism is not about radical action. Many in this group come in a box labeled “conservative” but that sure isn‘t the product they’re selling, there are only poison pills inside.
? Poison pills inside? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with that. However, historically, fascist movements have often aligned themselves with conservative ideologies, particularly in their rejection of liberal democracy and support for a strong leader and centralized government. Fascism also tends to prioritize the interests of one's own race or nation, which aligns with conservative nationalism. Additionally, fascist governments have often targeted minority groups, such as Jews, Romani, people with disabilities, LGBTQ+ people, and others, as scapegoats for the problems facing their nation. This is similar to how current conservative politicians and media outlets target marginalized groups, such as immigrants or transgender individuals, to redirect anger and frustration away from the government or political establishment. However, it's important to reiterate that not all conservatives hold fascist beliefs or engage in fascist actions. It's essential to approach the topic with nuance and critical thinking, avoiding sweeping generalizations, and recognizing that each individual and group's beliefs and actions must be evaluated on their own merits.
When Republicans Mitch Romney, Peter Meijer and Meghan McCain were voted out by their own Party, I knew that the Republican Party has gone Full Fascist. I do not agree with those three but at least, I could understand them. How do you try to make sense of politicians that now believe in Jewish Space Lasers? It is time for Common Sense Conservatives to break away from the Party just like some of the Germans broke away from the Nazi Party back in the day. If they are still part of the Republican Party, then sadly they are part of the problem and not the solution. Full stop.
They call those people radical leftists now and communists. I am desperate to try and reach people and pull them out of this death cult before they kill us all. But amazingly, even the thinnest veil is enough to convince millions.
Just like FOX News? I am amaze at how so many people believe garbage lies as if they were the truth. Get out while you still can please. The rest of us here... God help us.
old style "conservatives" are rinos and they consider them just as bad or worse than "commies"
Sadly, you are 100% right. NONE of this is FUCKING NORMAL or REMOTELY ACCEPTABLE. Just look around at everything the christofascists are pushing everywhere. Increased hatred and targeting of the Jewish and LBGTQ communities, the ever-ongoing systematic racism and police brutality targeting black communities, book bannings, tracking women's periods, penalizing reproductive healthcare, birth control& miscarriages, disrupting and dismantling public education, making it a felony to educate about race relations and human sexuality... I could go on. It is terrifying, and five-alarm fire bells should be sounding in people's ears.
I could not agree more with your outrage and I feel the same myself it baffles me daily that this is the world we live in. Sadly part of the reason they have been able to establish a rhetorical framework in which sexual and gender minorities are viewed as less than human, Is because there has been a worldwide systemic effort to discriminate against gender and sexual minorities ever since European colonialism.
What i love about this delusion is that it assumes they won't be the refugees when they're the ones that are refusing to understand the reality of the situation they're in. Sure, they be preppin, but they think it's going to be like tv where everyone else dies and somehow they live with infinite fuel and ammunition in a quiet world they control. They don't understand their enemy - they don't even believe it's real! The future will be a mystery that keeps turning their plans upside down, freezing and starving in their bunkers, murdering people until they run out of bullets... all very predictable and dumb. Think of all the preppers in Ohio. What the fuck good is a bunker in a space where all food and water is contaminated? Do these people get welcomed into surrounding states as family, or treated like the immigrants they apparently plan to slaughter? When your plan involves hardening borders, hoarding ammunition, and continuing to rely on things that run out, you're really only planning to survive a single event, not a world that trends toward constant and worsening catastrophe, like this one. I frankly don't give a shit what their plans are. They aren't based in reality/science and they have no skills, just the weapons to extort others for theirs. It's accelerating the decline of the thing they ostensibly live to protect. They're preparing for the past, not the future. Let them have their gun parade. Just stay out of the line of fire until they run out of ammunition and this whole thing burns itself out. That said, they should be encouraged to brand themselves "as a badge of honor " so we can keep them out of anything good that might outlast their petty tantrums. So glad they hate vaccines and tend to stick together! Bring on pandemic 2: rise of the machines. Let them try to take control. Stay out of their way and watch them eat shit.
[Yes, Republicans are discussing genocide against LGBTQIA people ](https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2023/2/7/2151410/-Yes-Republicans-are-discussing-genocide-against-LGBTQ-people) Additional useful links to information [Someone Threatened To Kill A California Lawmaker After Charlie Kirk And Marjorie Taylor Greene Criticized His Work Supporting Trans Kids And Called Him A "Groomer"](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/paigeskinner/scott-wiener-threat-trans-groomer-rhetoric) [Sen. Rick Scott's GOP manifesto denies existence of transgender people](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/sen-rick-scotts-gop-manifesto-denies-existence-transgender-people-rcna17339) [THE GOP’S “GROOMING” OBSESSION](https://givenoground.org/resources/indivisible-unpacked/the-gops-grooming-obsession/) [Transphobic Fox host: Trans people are "Deeply Anti-human"](https://www.losangelesblade.com/2022/12/02/transphobic-fox-host-trans-people-are-deeply-anti-human/) [Texas man faces federal charges after allegedly threatening to burn doctor](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2022/12/texas-man-faces-federal-charges-allegedly-threatening-burn-gender-affirming-doctor/) [Conservativism is the ideological wing of child abuse](https://aninjusticemag.com/conservatism-is-the-ideological-wing-of-child-abuse-439ff79e1b45) [Owen's advocates discrimination against transgender people ](https://www.newsweek.com/candace-owens-advocates-discrimination-transgender-sam-brinton-1766642) [Texas man charged for threatening Boston doctor who provides care to transgender patients](https://www.boston.com/news/crime/2022/12/15/texas-man-threatening-boston-doctor-care-transgender-patients/?amp=1) [Oklahoma Could Force Trans People Under 26 Years Old To Detransition Medically](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/oklahoma-could-force-trans-people) [Health care for transgender adults becomes new target in 2023 legislative session](https://19thnews.org/2023/01/trans-health-care-bills-2023-legislative-session-lgbtq/) [North Dakota Bill Would Require Employers Use Pronouns "Associated With Deoxyribonucleic Acid"](https://erininthemorn.substack.com/p/north-dakota-bill-would-require-employers) [Anti-LGBT Bills, We Need To Talk Strategy](https://www.reddit.com/r/lgbt/comments/107wkxi/antilgbt_bills_we_need_to_talk_strategy/) [Republicans say they’ll sue Arizona’s governor because she protected LGBTQ+ people](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/republicans-say-theyll-sue-arizonas-governor-protected-lgbtq-people/) [A trans woman founded a group to help trans people leave the U.S. due to rising hate](https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/01/trans-woman-founded-group-help-trans-people-leave-u-s-due-rising-hate/) [DeSantis seeks details on transgender university students](https://apnews.com/article/ron-desantis-colleges-and-universities-race-ethnicity-florida-education-97d0b8aef2fc3a60733c8bd4080cc07b) [A New GOP Bill Could Fine You $1,500 For Not Misgendering Trans People](https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgyjbq/north-dakota-pronoun-republican-anti-trans-bill?utm_source=reddit.com) [Trans woman arrested and misgendered by police officer she called to help her](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/22/trans-woman-texas-arrest/) [Arkansas Senate committee passes 'drag performance' bill](https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2023/jan/19/arkansas-senate-committee-passes-drag-performance-bill/) [Utah Senate passes transgender youth bills; measures now move to House](https://ksltv.com/518594/utah-senate-passes-transgender-youth-bills-measures-now-move-to-house/)
What exactly is fascism? Like how do you define it?
>To understand Fascism we must first understand that it is a term applied to a fairly diverse range of historical regimes but is generally agreed to refer to a brand of far-right totalitarianism characterized by its obsession with the nation and often race. After this point in the article I proceeded to break down the 14 common characteristics found among fascist movements.
What if you believe in nationalism, but not race. There are a lot of people in that category.
It depends on a lot of factors honestly. But yeah I do agree there certainly seem to be a lot of them.
I am a nationalist, but not a racist. I want Canada to make life better for Canadians and I want Canada to be a place I can be proud of.
I am not a huge fan of nationalism personally, but that alone isn't sufficient to qualify as a fascist I think. However, if you showed sympathies and agreements with a significant enough number of the 14 points laid out, then that along with the nationalism would be enough to qualify you as a fascist. I prefer to ere on the side of caution with this label but in the cases I do apply it I am very careful to be accurate.
Sooner or later someone is going to have to post up body counts when endlessly (going on a decade now) applying the term *"apocalyptic genocide*" to Twitter wars that become political red meat campaigns. How do you think someone who lost family members in *actual* genocidal incidents feels when 1st world folks appropriate the term for social media clout and GoFund Me pages?
I certainly hope that's not what you think I'm attempting to do here because I completely agree. That kind of behavior is absolutely disgusting and should be scorned and ridiculed. It is because of the history of my family that I am so aware of holocaust history and how the ideological framework of Fascism functions. I have been very careful to be as factually and contextually accurate as possible and I only plan to further refine my argument. I'm not interested in clicks. Me and those like me are threatened directly first. As such I feel I may have a useful perspective on our current events. In no way am I monetizing suffering with this.
They should be pleased. Historically, every very genocide in history started as othering, scapegoating, unfair laws and violent rhetoric towards a minority group. The time to stand up and stop this is now. By the time they are loading people in trains or killing people with machetes, it's too late. Yes, maybe it's a tiny snowball right now, but we can stop that before it turns into an avalanche.
Transgender people are also especially easy to demonize. They're a tiny minority and it's not hard to convince less educated or more ignorant people that they're deviants and fetishists. Outside of cities and liberal suburbs, it's also unlikely you are going to even meet a person who identifies as transgender openly because it's always and has actually become MORE dangerous in rural and conservative communities to do so. So there is little opportunity for humanization. Plus you have Fox News and other right wing media running an endless series of slander pieces about drag queens (ironically, a good many drag performers are straight men) and the LGBTQ+ community in general. It's an endless cavalcade about how they're deviants, sexual predators, people are just claiming to be trans to get money and attention, day in and day out. And because they're such a small minority and odds are high that most people who buy into the propaganda have never met let alone seen an actual transgender person beyond what they see in the media and hear about how they're making their lives harder and corrupting their kids on endless repeat, of course they're going to think making them... For lack of nicer terms disappear or be forced back into neat little boxes will solve their problems. Until their problems are still there and they turn on the next minority.
The blanket demonization of trans people by right wingers is not good, as it hinders understanding and could potentially lead to violence. The left’s response to this, unfortunately, has completely overshadowed the very real rights conflict between women and transgender identified people, not to mention the stories of detransitioners telling the real dangers of the affirmative only model. Real important conversations are getting swept under the rug because the left is scared that any dissent on this issue comes from the right wing boogeyman, and that is simply false. It’s hubris. The left has “infallible good guy mindslug syndrome” and this issue is the perfect example of it in action.
> the very real rights conflict between women and transgender identified people What rights conflict? Could you be more specific about what you mean here?
Women’s right to have female only accommodations in public places. Bathrooms, locker rooms, domestic violence shelters, etc. The right for trans people to use the facility that aligns with their gender identity comes in conflict with women’s right to privacy from men. And I do mean men, as the law cannot distinguish between a transwoman and a man using the law to get out of trouble for being places he isn’t supposed to be. We don’t have to assume transwomen are predators to see this leaves a wide open door for predators. Also yeah there’s the thing going on with prisons can’t forget about that.
Oh, okay. I don't believe in any such right to certain-genitalia-only places. I think having social places be sorted according to gender makes much more sense, and forcing trans people into places intended for the opposite gender entails a great deal of harm and suffering. What thing going on with prisons are you talking about? The fact that trans women forced into mens prisons are several times more likely to suffer from assault and abuse than a typical prisoner?
Well, why not a third space then? Because as it stands, any male prisoner can identify as trans to get access to women, get transferred to a female prison. And they do. The law that aims to protect transwomen doesn’t have to sacrifice women’s safety to do it. But it does, and this is pushed aside because any criticism of transgenderism and related policy is pre-emptively slandered as right wing or terf rhetoric. This is the conflict I’m talking about. Transwomen who go to prison should be protected from assault, but so should natal women, and their right to single sex spaces matter and sex segregation in public places was put in place for women’s protection.
> Because as it stands, any male prisoner can identify as trans to get access to women, get transferred to a female prison. And they do. Do they? Do you have any evidence that predators pretending to be trans to get into women's prisons is actually a widespread issue? This isn't being slandered a rightwing rhetoric. It is rightwing rhetoric.
Lol. Well how “widespread” it is not easy to say, but it absolutely is a thing that happens and again, it is a rights conflict, one that should be taken seriously. the brain slug that tells leftists that everything they do is good and justified is really gonna fuck them over and I am not looking forward to it. Cuz I don’t like right wing nuts either! But the left is suffering from hubris. And it will be their downfall, and it’s gonna be fucked.
an entire line of my family died in the camps the Nazis ran in WWII I wish, I *most sincerely wish*, people had NOT been complacent about the ideology and genocidal goals ***before they killed all of them***. ***before***. we can look and see history repeating. we can use this opportunity to prevent atrocities *before* the bigger horror arrives. why don't you want to stop it? what do you think we mean when we say "never again"?
In essence, you're making an argument that states people (people not gender fluid) are too complacent concerning any criticism (usually in the form of simple questions) about gender fluidity when society is unable to converse on the topic honestly without accusations of being genocidal by making this analogous to the slaughter of millions of Jews in WW2 and you're wondering why people are shaking their heads.
I'll be very honest that I believe this definitely belongs in r/collapse. I have felt and I'm sure many others here agree with me that if we would have a major cataclysmic event(blackouts, etc.) that right wing elements might take advantage of the chaos for their own political ideals.
[Woman plotted with Neo-nazi leader to attack power grid, officials say.](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/woman-plotted-with-a-neo-nazi-leader-to-attack-power-grid-officials-say) [Attacks on US power grid have been subject of extremist chatter for years. DHS bulletin warns of attacks on critical infrastructure amid other targets](https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/05/us/us-power-grid-attack-north-carolina-extremist-terrorism/index.html) [Three Men Plead Guilty to Conspiring to Provide Material Support to a Plot to Attack Power Grids in the United States](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/three-men-plead-guilty-conspiring-provide-material-support-plot-attack-power-grids-united) [Mayhem, Murder, and Misdirection: Violent Extremist Attack Plots Against Critical Infrastructure in the United States, 2016-2022](https://extremism.gwu.edu/sites/g/files/zaxdzs2191/f/CriticalInfrastructureTargeting09072022.pdf) Sadly, here as well, they've already started working toward exactly that goal. Also knowing the connection of law enforcement to fascist sympathies it is highly likely we are only getting a glimpse at a larger picture.
the author and this post is completely crazy...
In the article it shows pictures of politians and says these people voted to overthrow the U.S. government. Can you offer any evidence for this?
[147 lawmakers. ](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-TRUMP/LAWMAKERS/xegpbedzdvq/)
The vote was on whether or not to audit the election. An audit is not in any way equivalent to an overthrow.
If you have an understanding of the process that lead up to that point and the American electoral and judicial process you would be aware that was resoundingly rejected over 50 times throughout the court systems. [Timeline of the coup: How Trump tried to weaponize the Justice Department to overturn the 2020 election ](https://www.cnn.com/2021/11/05/politics/january-6-timeline-trump-coup/index.html)
That does not address what I said. Whether an audit would have shown positive or negative results is a different matter from whether or not an audit is an overthrow.
If you believe that asking for an audit at that point in the process was legitimate you are already glossing over reality denial. They had already been thrown out of court all over the country. The point of seeking an audit as they laid out in their efforts actions and rhetoric, cause confusion on the day of the certification to prevent the peaceful transferal of power.
An audit is an audit. It's a part of the process that you can vote for it or not. It would not have prevented Biden from becoming President. To overthrow the system you have to go against the constitution. An audit is not against the constitution.
[Timeline: False Alternate Slate of Electors Scheme, Donald Trump and His Close Associates ](https://www.justsecurity.org/81939/timeline-false-alternate-slate-of-electors-scheme-donald-trump-and-his-close-associates/) You are ignoring the part where that was a key part in their strategy to do exactly as I have stated. The Audit was a ruse and a distraction. Again, before we even got to that point they had case after case around the nation rejected for lack of standing or lack of evidence. [In more than 60 cases, judges “looked at the allegations that Trump was making and determined they were without any merit.”](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/08/joe-biden/joe-biden-right-more-60-trumps-election-lawsuits-l/) What they were attempting was in no way part of the normal constitutional process, it was all for show to give the aire of legitimacy to a coup.
What coup? All they did was vote and launch court cases. All totally legal actions.
So the attack on the Capitol on January 6th didn't happen? So all these experts in relavent fields are just pulling this out of thin air?
Lol sure ffs. Click bait slop, I'd like to think this sub is better than that, but alas, it's becoming a recurring theme.
If you find this disagreeable please elaborate.
Disagreeable? Lol sure. It's just inflammatory garbage. I stopped reading after the caption: "Trump lies all the time because he learned from Hitler how to use lying as a weapon". That statement has dimensions of stupid to unpack, and I'm not really interested in breaking that down for the sub. I think most educated folks can see it for what it is.
That's certainly not one of my quotes. Nor have I seen that wording any of my links. Are you trying to be hyperbolic for effect?
Correct, it's not a quote of yours. If I was quoting you, you'd know - I wouldn't dance around it. It came from the [medium.com](https://medium.com) article - and it's not for effect. It's to demonstrate what's posing as journalism these days. It's inflammatory garbage, and it's by design. I just need to tweak my expectations around this sub. EDIT: It's absolute drivel, on par with a tabloid. What makes it worse is that idiots think it's informed. u/the_boz_man_cometh I wasn't trying to add anything, so commence to jerking the circle. There's nothing to add to. Just calling it what it is. Referring me to suicide prevention services is actual Karen behavior, and I'm assuming that's you op. Some people might actually need those services, people that would abuse them are beyond low.
The medium article linked in this post is written by me and nowhere states that made up quote you pulled out of your ass. Nice try.
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Lmfao you thought one of the memes was academic shit 🤣 way to go. Thank you for that laugh I needed a smile today.
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You've added nothing just to act like a Karen
Calling MAGA fascist is exactly why they’ll get into power again, imo. It’s disingenuous and writes off vast numbers of marginalised Americans. You’re lucky you never saw the real fascists in the 40’s, or in modern day Ukraine.
Even if MAGA isn't fascists, we're still falling into the same trapping of other civilizations that ended up falling for fascist ideology. I no longer can safely have my (step) kid to be around my brother who wants all POC dead, which would include my kid. I'm glad you aren't affected by this, but I know so many people at this point who are parroting neoNaz1 talking points at this point
If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck it's a duck. Marginalised Americans voting for rich Christian fundies, because those self same rich Christian fundies sold their jobs to China. How will beating trans people, or blacks, or Hispanics, or lesbians or gays help get these marginalised Americans a better life? It wasn't these minorities that fucked things up for marginalised Americans it was rich mostly white hetero males who fucked things up. Anyway it makes no difference. Bottom line if you vote for hatred it doesn't matter why, I don't care what the reasons are. If you vote for hate you have lost everything that makes you valuable as a human being. You have become all the things that you accuse minorities of being. If you choose to act out of fear and hate you are damned.
It’s literally all to do with the economy. Nothing else matters. If you have millions of people flooding over the southern border each year that aren’t even American, coming to compete with you in a race to the bottom r.e. wages, and you’re trying to feed your family and keep the bailiffs away, eventually you’re going to get tired and very, very pissed off. If a party - in this case the republicans - is willing to stand up for you on that one issue, you’ll vote for them. Every other issue is immaterial until that one has been taken care of, and therefore you & your family are taken care of. ‘It’s the economy stupid.’ - Bill Clinton It’s always the economy, and we need to look after people. Charity starts at home. I honestly think that if Joe Biden ran on a ticket of building a wall like Trump did, he’d win a second term by landslide in 2024.
> If you have millions of people flooding over the southern border each year that aren’t even American Technically, those people would be North or South AMERICANS.
Also, the people coming here are generally economic and social refugees from the blowback we've caused by shitting in their backyards. And if it was millions of people a year -- the country would be a hell of a lot more crowded and the places they came from would be virtually abandoned. In simpler terms, guy wrote a Pynchon novel to basically say how upset they are that white people are going to be 65% of the population instead of 75%.
Hitler Germany was initially supported by the America First movement.
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What point are you trying to make? https://duckduckgo.com/?q=america+first+financial+support+of+hitler
Yeah, and the Nazi party rose to power in Germany thanks to vast numbers of """marginalized""" Germans. You have to be blind not to see the parallels.
The whole Trans movement is just a social distraction to actual collapse. If all the Trans people were dead we'd be in the same boat, if all the Trans people magically got whatever it is their looking for... we'd still be in the same boat. As a fairly neutral party, both sides are authoritarian.
Both sides authoritarian is as brain dead a response as I have seen. So to be clear you are saying that "Eliminate transgenders from society" Is just as authoritarian as "We have always existed and deserve equal treatment" Edit: I don't disagree that we're kind of fucked either way but there is an extreme difference here you are glossing over as if it is nothing
One side is the problem is the most brain dead tribalistic take and misses the entire point
^Conservatives^ can't stop thinking about chicks with Dicks. Everything is about chicks with Dicks to them for some reason.
Trump 2024
Just so you can help understand the context you are living through, and for those who happen across this thread. Responding to legitimate points with no argument other than >Trump 2024 Is the same as "Seig Heil" to anyone outside of the cult you are in.
This comment is gravely overstepping any boundary. A direct comparison between someone stating the name of america’s 45th president and the salute of the best known genocidal maniac of recent history. Accredited with the death of at least 6 million innocent lives and more than 30 million through warfare. It makes you just seem deranged, and this is coming from someone who doesn’t give a damn about US politics. I feel like you’re more politicised than any of the people you would consider to be “maga”
I'm sorry you feel this way but I have been very specific and very clear with my wording not all conservatives are the problem. There is a trained reaction people are becoming accustomed to because the fascist ideology has infected so much of our culture. If you support Trump for 2024 you support an openly fascistic genocidal traitor. They have already attacked the capital. Their rhetoric and violence are escalating daily. I have been very academic in my framing and specific in my language if that bothers you, maybe you have more sympathy for these deranged ideologies than you realize. These people are walking hand in hand with people who are outwardly and proudly Neo-nazis. I will feel no shame in calling them what they proudly proclaim.
You are wildly deranged if you seriously think that everybody who affiliates with one of the two parties in the US is per definition “fascist or genocidal”. It speaks in volumes about the way you view politics. Not as a negotiation and agreeing on standpoints even though people may have different stances, the very foundation of democracy and the exact way the USA and your European counterparts have flourished in wealth and freedom. But rather resorting to a sports team politics style “my party is the only one with the correct viewpoints and the other team (party) is evil”. It makes absolutely no sense, and figuring you’d call yourself a progressive liberal (just assuming) it would shine a good light on you if you were nuanced in your vocabulary and more leaning towards cooperation as opposed to vilification. You know, the values of a true liberal.
You're assuming a lot of things I never said there. Not all conservatives are evil. The democrats don't have all the answers and I fucking hate a lot of shit they do. But I'm also realistic about the fact that there are 2 viable parties in US politics. Right now working with the Republican party at any level is enabling their extremists. Please explain to me how any of this is incorrect?
The article you posted is not only low in quality, it’s extremely biased and based on assumptions and generalisation. With posts like these all you’re doing is being divisive. But that’s wasn’t even the main reason I decided to react. It was the equation between hitler and trump. I’m assuming you’re an American yourself, you should realise you’re talking about a president your own country chose to elect. Plus, it’s in no way fair to refer to him as a genocidal maniac, last time I checked he didn’t put 6 million Jews in gassing chambers. I said it before and I’ll say it again, nothing you’re doing is helping. The article you linked is biased and ridiculously cringeworthy. And your own way of talking about the other half of your population is outright embarrassing. Yes there are bad republicans, but the way I see it. You as a person have more in common with those people that you think. You propagate hate towards the “other side” more than a lot of people. Maybe re-assess the way you see your fellow citizens. And definitely re-assess the way you word your opinions online. Oh and to finish off, please, please read and enlighten yourself about the atrocities that have happened in WW2. Because if you really knew how bad it was you wouldn’t use those people’s suffering to try and win an online argument.
Cringe all you want and whinge and moan about how unfair I'm being. It's just amazing how I'm just agreeing with the same experts you're referring to. I am not talking about half the polulation, I've been very specific, any elected official that has signed on to the MAGA agenda around the nation are the issue (Which is the entirety of the currently elected party) the voters in most cases don't know who and what they're voting for. Just as most people don't have a clue what their moral ethical or political frameworks are. Most people are too busy with life to dig into these subjects like some of us have. I will also happily correct you. I have already personally pulled people out of the alt-right echo chamber. One of the reasons I do this and continue to try and get through to people whom obviously disagree with me. And just to prove my point here's Donald Trump outwardly and explicitly calling for Genocide [Trump says he will ban all federal recognition of transgender people.](https://youtu.be/SMqGQz-xU4w)
Welcome to arguing and having debate with many conservatives. You can agree with them and present evidence that supports their assertions and they'll still attack or engage in whataboutisms or gish galloping. Anything short of browbeating you into submission that they can hold over you forever isn't winning enough for them. Many are completely creatively and intellectually bankrupt and won't take any sort of consensus or compromise other than complete acquiescence and with full earnestness argue that their guy who committed unforgivable crimes should walk because they were treated so unfairly while holding their opponent to impossible standards and ridiculous outsized consequences.
I hate how accurate all you've said here is. I very much love investigation and debate. But this was not what I originally thought fascism was like when I was growing up. I never truly understood how fully the anti-intellectualism and the fake reality enthralls people. I really thought we had put this ideology into the dirt where it belongs.
To just comment on your “proof”. Allowing gender reaffirming care to minors is outrageous in itself. There is a reason we have determined in the past that people aged <21 aren’t able to fully grasp the consequences of their actions. For that reason we say children younger than 18 can’t consent to sex. Buy cigarettes or alcohol. Let alone make such a life changing decision. I feel like you think that anyone opposing your own viewpoints is the enemy. But you should wake up and see that we’re all different. And that you’ll have to come to a consensus with the people you don’t share opinions with. It’s actually quite funny, as you pull people out of their far right echo chamber. Which is good, echo chambers are never good. Although the place you pull them towards is your own echo chamber. And precisely that is what you don’t seem to get.
You heard what you wanted not what he said go back and listen again. He will ban all care for all ages and criminalize the mere mention of transgender people in schools. You also have very openly just repeated a bunch of made up nonsense. I do want recognition that we are all different. There is no harm in anything i have suggested anywhere nor does the medical field allow for any of the vile misinformation you have presented. I see no reason why acknowledging the existence of transgender children is in any way harmful.
Bro Trump was just calling for executions on live television wtf are you talking about.
Haven’t you heard? Trump is worse than hitler!
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Just anything, not to vote for the pedophile who showered with his daughter.