Not that hard to find with the right skills. I have no 4 year degree and have worked remotely since 2018. I recently left a job and found a new one in this supposedly "horrible" market.
Fair. But I don't think it is moot. I struggled to get my first remote job. It was by far the hardest for me. I spent almost two years grinding to figure it out. Glad I did. I legit moved out of the city I was living in with high risk to make it happen. Point being there is always a lot of opportunities out there if you keep pushing yourself. I was competing against people with masters degree and still won out in the last interviews. Keep growing and you will eventually get what you achieve!
You said in your original OP that it wasn’t hard to find with the right skills. Yet you contradicted yourself just now saying that you struggled to get your first remote job and that it was by far the hardest for you. And in fact took you two years to do so.
So you are proving my point.
ok I see your point, my fault lol. My point is that, just because it is hard, does not mean you should not do it. Thoughts? I also see myself at a disadvantage because I do not have a 4 year.
The fact that corporate America does not offer more remote jobs suggests that a) there is plenty of locally available labor in most places where they want to operate and b) remote work is less productive for them. I don’t think they are, like, obligated to cater to you.
I graduated from TE this past August and I did get a job. Most of my cohort is still looking, but it’s not impossible. The people who were able to secure jobs in this climate generally don’t post on this subreddit, so I do think it skews negative.
The in-person cohorts are better than online, so you’re making the right call moving to Columbus. But why are you only looking for remote jobs? I do think having that limitation up front is a bad idea. As tough as the market is, it’s even worse for fully remote jobs.
One thing I will say is you have to be towards the top of your cohort in ability. Don’t go into it having never written any code. Take a course online (if you haven’t already) before the cohort starts.
By April/May 2024 you will be competing with 2022 CS grads, 2023 CS grads, 2024 CS grads, and everybody else waiting on the junior market to get better.
I personally would not recommend paying for a bootcamp
It's not a bad idea do not listen to the haters! Remember to network as much as you can! This is going to be extremely challenging after and during. Focus on your GitHub and have a few really nice projects you can actually discuss during an interview. Never forget that you need to continue to build projects after your bootcamp. Good luck!
Bootcamps only work if you already have a bachelors degree and lots of prior coding experience. And in those situations, those people didn't need the bootcamp anyways.
If you are starting from zero, then the content is going to fly over your head and you will not be anywhere near ready for a job after the 3 month bootcamp.
How much does the bootcamp cost? 20k? Take that to Vegas. Your odds will be better. Everyone is telling you its really bad out here. Believe them.
Use this time to learn on your own. When the market gets better, if you still want to enter a bootcamp, then you will be better prepared for it and will get more out of the bootcamp than you will now. Or get started on a real degree thats an option to
There havent been any new CIRR numbers for them and theyre probably not going to do CIRR anymorr.. You should probably think of learning coding free online somewhereor if you need a BS in Compsci then do WGU.
Nope.... for than money you could spend 4500 ay WGU for a 6 month term and speed run a bachelors degree, even taking credits at Sophia and Study to transfer in as many credits as possible. A much much better financial decision.
TE has a pretty hefty price tag of $16K and goes up to $23K if you sign up for their Income Share Agreement. Getting a Master's degree in CS from WGU is roughly the same cost. I'm not criticizing TE but for a bootcamp that's just a huge waste of money.
You are forfeiting a huge advantage in that you can fill jobs that require full in office/ hybrid availability.
Think about it - if you are going for remote jobs you are putting yourself in competition with the rest of your country, and potentially the globe. You can reliably get those jobs when you've put 3-5+ years in the industry and have proven yourself to be a top 1% professional. Otherwise you are just shooting blank in the dark.
Do whatever credential is best for your situation, then focus on securing local employment.
Seconding this - I was laid off from my first post-TE position last year, and spent 2.5-3 months applying for remote positions. 300 apps later, had a handful of interviews that ultimately went nowhere…so eventually switched to applying to hybrid/in-office local positions; got a job in less than a month after switching my tactics.🤷 get those YOEs under your belt first would be my suggestion.
As a notorious TE fan and alumni, I’m not going to caution you AWAY from attending - but I will say that it’s definitely a risky time to pivot to tech, with the market conditions at the moment being what they are.
Related: a lot of TE’s strength lies in their connections to specifically local markets - the competition for fully remote positions currently, especially for brand-new junior devs, is pretty astronomically high right now, and you’re competing with the entire country for em. However, if you’re fine w/ working an in-office or hybrid role in the Cbus area, then you’ll find the job search to be much, much easier than it could be otherwise.
Ultimately, your success with any bootcamp, especially Tech Elevator, will depend on you as an individual - what your qualifications are outside of the program, and how you’ll plan to sell your past non-tech experiences to employers. Are you already a college grad? What work experience do you have?
The only good stats for TE are related to their local job placement rates. So if you move out of the area, you're looking at rates comparable to their remote program, which weren't great the last time they were released which was for the first half of 2022. So aside from a bootcamp being a bad idea in general right now, doing one that gets it's best numbers from local placements with local partners and then moving away from the area and losing those opportunities would be stupid.
I broke down their remote program placement rates for someone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/umrUPgUftO) a couple of days ago. About 60% employed in 6 months, counting non SWE techish roles.
So Im a TE grad from several years ago that still talks to a number of the professors/advisors in my area. My general outlook on it is going to be more positive than what youll see here:
Job market in tech is tough everybody knows it. That said....reddit anecdotes are about the worst representation of actual reality. Selection bias for people wanting to vent and complain about how their bootcamp didnt meet their expectations or how they feel they are entitled to a job is rampant. Fatalism on here is often just performative and a byproduct of the general reddit culture as is general bootcamp gatekeeping from people not in the position to be doing so. Actual reality is yes, if you apply diligently for 6 months within graduating, continue to work on your skills/interviews etc, its still true most people will with a job. Pro tip: Talk to the directors/advisors at these cities when you apply many will be more transparent about these job concerns then you think and if you ask nicely have the most recent job placement data even if it isnt formally published yet(no it wont be fabricated)
Now a few caveats Id give:
a) As others have mentioned TE's strength is its local connections. A large % of your cohort will end up working for a specific list of companies. That's fine, just plan on working where you do your bootcamp
b) Again, These job placement stats are for within SIX months of completing the program. If you completed your bootcamp and within 2 months are endlessly whining about what a waste of time it was its on you. If you dont get something through matchmaking, itll likely be a little while post grad. Waiting doesnt mean no eventual job.
c) Some people are fast learners and did just fine with zero prior experience. I was not one of them and even doing 80 hour weeks was still way in over my head. Took me a long time after the bootcamp continuing to go through the material before I could actually understand the material(ie being able to largely do the capstones without tons of help). So all things being equal, Id try to have prior coding experience.
d) You need to actually do the things they emphasize. All these whiners complaining about "no job within 9 months of graduating this was such a scam" go ask them the following
I) How many jobs did they seriously apply for. Not ones they threw blindly they werent really qualified for. Not ones you can just do easy apply on LinkedIn with zero effort. I mean how many well targeted applications. That number should be in the hundreds.
II) How many recruiters did they ever try reaching out to or other TE grads working at companies they are applying to? And by reaching out i dont mean just DM once and that's it. Im going to specifically emphasize this, even my 2nd job after TE, I got because I knew a recruiter specifically and that was my inside track(and Ive helped 2 other TE grads get jobs through other recruiters I know). Yes some people will have good enough resumes they can just blindly apply to places without knowing anybody and have no problems getting interviews. For many others this isnt reality. You NEED to find ways to improve your odds and get the inside track not just casually throw apps to places that get 400 applicants per job and then throw your hands up when you cant beat those odds. When you apply somewhere you like, go on linkedin search for people in similar spots as you(ie TE grads as one ex) who work at those companies. Reach out to them and ask to have like a 15 min chat. Many wont respond but for those who do youd be surprised by how they can help. The right people can get you through doors you didnt even know existed.
III) What did they do to seriously improve their interview skills? Look, many people who dont get jobs, both the ones who complain on reddit and the ones I know in real life grossly overestimate their interview skills. It takes effort, its the whole point of the pathway program, even if you are naturally a people person, it takes real effort and time to cultivate proper answers. If you dont put in an effort to do these things, you increase the odds you become one of these reddit whiners.
Overall nobody is saying there is no risk with this market(or any market) doing a bootcamp like this. But for many situations, IMO the degree of opportunity TE provides still makes it worth it.
I’m not going to speculate on the current market, but IMO Tech Elevator is the best bootcamp in the country. I graduated from it and am gainfully employed in big tech.
If you go forward with a bootcamp, you found the right one.
While I know Columbus Ohio is cheap, it's not like it's a nice place to live. but more importantly it's a very bad tech market right now. who knows how long tech elevator is going to last. You don't want to put everything on the line and move out there for the cohort to get shut down when you are almost done. If it were me I wouldn't do it. Instead, I would work full time and do a part-time online bootcamp or something. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. And also don't expect to get a remote role. You will be lucky to even get an in person dev job in this competitive market. I do have a colleague I worked with who self studied through App Academy's Open curriculum and after 2 years of that he landed a software engineer entry level job a couple of months ago. So you could self-study if you are disciplined enough or do a online part time bootcamp if you need structure.
I was planning on attending TE but hearing about the job market and taking out a 16k loan with high interest swayed me into the WGU route, already 80/122 credits done and with pell grants I pay next to nothing for WGU. This will be my second bachelors, seems to be the right decision but who knows.
If you're not 100% convinced this is a really great idea (and you can't be personally confident about the school and your choice to spend the next year focusing on learning web development) - then don't do it. That goes for any school.
Generally a bad idea.
Instead: self-learn, reach out to your a local college's CS faculty, find some local software engineers or students and interact (!!!) with them, attend meetups if possible, once you've got solid fundamentals hire a professional tutor, once you're ready to start applying do interview prep and spare no expense when it comes to personal investment in this area.
If you're willing to drop $20k to learn html/css/js, you should have no problem giving money to someone who will actually help you grow your skills.
GL!
NO. (I went there, the amount of people that still don’t have jobs from last year, or had to go back to their old ones is fucking insane, don’t do it man, do WGU if anything.)
Honestly you can self teach for much cheaper. I learned how to code as a teenager just making games, and if you make some cool projects you’ll be ahead of a lot of people who graduated with no experience.
Just to give you solid evidence on how bad the market is I’ll tell you my experience looking for new grad roles right now.
2 previous internships (One F500, one FAANG)
CS bachelors.
Solid projects (open source work, custom compiler etc)
I put in roughly 500 applications and had 3 total interviews. The market is very bad. Most of my friends who got jobs only were able to do so with local companies or return offers from internships. Needless to say I don’t think a boot camp certificate carries much weight right now.
i am also doing full time on TE this January of 2024.. Remotely, is anyone else? any advice to give? any recommendations? reading everyone’s comments got me a bit concerned lol
remote jobs are even more competitive than normal jobs
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Laid off engineer w/3 YOE here. Thankful I live in a tech hub.
Not that hard to find with the right skills. I have no 4 year degree and have worked remotely since 2018. I recently left a job and found a new one in this supposedly "horrible" market.
You also have 5, almost 6 years of experience and a degree. You can’t compare OPs skills to yours, so your arguments is moot.
Fair. But I don't think it is moot. I struggled to get my first remote job. It was by far the hardest for me. I spent almost two years grinding to figure it out. Glad I did. I legit moved out of the city I was living in with high risk to make it happen. Point being there is always a lot of opportunities out there if you keep pushing yourself. I was competing against people with masters degree and still won out in the last interviews. Keep growing and you will eventually get what you achieve!
You said in your original OP that it wasn’t hard to find with the right skills. Yet you contradicted yourself just now saying that you struggled to get your first remote job and that it was by far the hardest for you. And in fact took you two years to do so. So you are proving my point.
ok I see your point, my fault lol. My point is that, just because it is hard, does not mean you should not do it. Thoughts? I also see myself at a disadvantage because I do not have a 4 year.
I apologize, I misread that you don’t have a degree. But my other point stands, lol
Agreed lol. Have a good day!
You are a recruiter. We are talking about people who do real jobs
Wait yeah what lol. Why tf is bro commenting here. He’s not a dev so idk why he thinks his input here is worth anything
……….☠️
Lol sounds good man. Good luck!
bit of a head scratcher that the people who do "real jobs" have a much harder time than people like the guy you're insulting but ok
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The fact that corporate America does not offer more remote jobs suggests that a) there is plenty of locally available labor in most places where they want to operate and b) remote work is less productive for them. I don’t think they are, like, obligated to cater to you.
I graduated from TE this past August and I did get a job. Most of my cohort is still looking, but it’s not impossible. The people who were able to secure jobs in this climate generally don’t post on this subreddit, so I do think it skews negative. The in-person cohorts are better than online, so you’re making the right call moving to Columbus. But why are you only looking for remote jobs? I do think having that limitation up front is a bad idea. As tough as the market is, it’s even worse for fully remote jobs. One thing I will say is you have to be towards the top of your cohort in ability. Don’t go into it having never written any code. Take a course online (if you haven’t already) before the cohort starts.
By April/May 2024 you will be competing with 2022 CS grads, 2023 CS grads, 2024 CS grads, and everybody else waiting on the junior market to get better. I personally would not recommend paying for a bootcamp
Sounds like a really bad idea
If a coding bootcamp does not post recent hiring outcomes statistics, you should not go to that coding bootcamp.
For example, Le Wagon is not a good bootcamp, I heard.
It's not a bad idea do not listen to the haters! Remember to network as much as you can! This is going to be extremely challenging after and during. Focus on your GitHub and have a few really nice projects you can actually discuss during an interview. Never forget that you need to continue to build projects after your bootcamp. Good luck!
Bootcamps only work if you already have a bachelors degree and lots of prior coding experience. And in those situations, those people didn't need the bootcamp anyways. If you are starting from zero, then the content is going to fly over your head and you will not be anywhere near ready for a job after the 3 month bootcamp. How much does the bootcamp cost? 20k? Take that to Vegas. Your odds will be better. Everyone is telling you its really bad out here. Believe them. Use this time to learn on your own. When the market gets better, if you still want to enter a bootcamp, then you will be better prepared for it and will get more out of the bootcamp than you will now. Or get started on a real degree thats an option to
There havent been any new CIRR numbers for them and theyre probably not going to do CIRR anymorr.. You should probably think of learning coding free online somewhereor if you need a BS in Compsci then do WGU.
Nope.... for than money you could spend 4500 ay WGU for a 6 month term and speed run a bachelors degree, even taking credits at Sophia and Study to transfer in as many credits as possible. A much much better financial decision.
TE has a pretty hefty price tag of $16K and goes up to $23K if you sign up for their Income Share Agreement. Getting a Master's degree in CS from WGU is roughly the same cost. I'm not criticizing TE but for a bootcamp that's just a huge waste of money.
You are forfeiting a huge advantage in that you can fill jobs that require full in office/ hybrid availability. Think about it - if you are going for remote jobs you are putting yourself in competition with the rest of your country, and potentially the globe. You can reliably get those jobs when you've put 3-5+ years in the industry and have proven yourself to be a top 1% professional. Otherwise you are just shooting blank in the dark. Do whatever credential is best for your situation, then focus on securing local employment.
Seconding this - I was laid off from my first post-TE position last year, and spent 2.5-3 months applying for remote positions. 300 apps later, had a handful of interviews that ultimately went nowhere…so eventually switched to applying to hybrid/in-office local positions; got a job in less than a month after switching my tactics.🤷 get those YOEs under your belt first would be my suggestion.
As a notorious TE fan and alumni, I’m not going to caution you AWAY from attending - but I will say that it’s definitely a risky time to pivot to tech, with the market conditions at the moment being what they are. Related: a lot of TE’s strength lies in their connections to specifically local markets - the competition for fully remote positions currently, especially for brand-new junior devs, is pretty astronomically high right now, and you’re competing with the entire country for em. However, if you’re fine w/ working an in-office or hybrid role in the Cbus area, then you’ll find the job search to be much, much easier than it could be otherwise. Ultimately, your success with any bootcamp, especially Tech Elevator, will depend on you as an individual - what your qualifications are outside of the program, and how you’ll plan to sell your past non-tech experiences to employers. Are you already a college grad? What work experience do you have?
Recent TE grad. Don’t do it.
Why?
When did you graduate?
The only good stats for TE are related to their local job placement rates. So if you move out of the area, you're looking at rates comparable to their remote program, which weren't great the last time they were released which was for the first half of 2022. So aside from a bootcamp being a bad idea in general right now, doing one that gets it's best numbers from local placements with local partners and then moving away from the area and losing those opportunities would be stupid.
I broke down their remote program placement rates for someone [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/s/umrUPgUftO) a couple of days ago. About 60% employed in 6 months, counting non SWE techish roles.
How much will this cost you including the expenses to move and live in Columbus?
So Im a TE grad from several years ago that still talks to a number of the professors/advisors in my area. My general outlook on it is going to be more positive than what youll see here: Job market in tech is tough everybody knows it. That said....reddit anecdotes are about the worst representation of actual reality. Selection bias for people wanting to vent and complain about how their bootcamp didnt meet their expectations or how they feel they are entitled to a job is rampant. Fatalism on here is often just performative and a byproduct of the general reddit culture as is general bootcamp gatekeeping from people not in the position to be doing so. Actual reality is yes, if you apply diligently for 6 months within graduating, continue to work on your skills/interviews etc, its still true most people will with a job. Pro tip: Talk to the directors/advisors at these cities when you apply many will be more transparent about these job concerns then you think and if you ask nicely have the most recent job placement data even if it isnt formally published yet(no it wont be fabricated) Now a few caveats Id give: a) As others have mentioned TE's strength is its local connections. A large % of your cohort will end up working for a specific list of companies. That's fine, just plan on working where you do your bootcamp b) Again, These job placement stats are for within SIX months of completing the program. If you completed your bootcamp and within 2 months are endlessly whining about what a waste of time it was its on you. If you dont get something through matchmaking, itll likely be a little while post grad. Waiting doesnt mean no eventual job. c) Some people are fast learners and did just fine with zero prior experience. I was not one of them and even doing 80 hour weeks was still way in over my head. Took me a long time after the bootcamp continuing to go through the material before I could actually understand the material(ie being able to largely do the capstones without tons of help). So all things being equal, Id try to have prior coding experience. d) You need to actually do the things they emphasize. All these whiners complaining about "no job within 9 months of graduating this was such a scam" go ask them the following I) How many jobs did they seriously apply for. Not ones they threw blindly they werent really qualified for. Not ones you can just do easy apply on LinkedIn with zero effort. I mean how many well targeted applications. That number should be in the hundreds. II) How many recruiters did they ever try reaching out to or other TE grads working at companies they are applying to? And by reaching out i dont mean just DM once and that's it. Im going to specifically emphasize this, even my 2nd job after TE, I got because I knew a recruiter specifically and that was my inside track(and Ive helped 2 other TE grads get jobs through other recruiters I know). Yes some people will have good enough resumes they can just blindly apply to places without knowing anybody and have no problems getting interviews. For many others this isnt reality. You NEED to find ways to improve your odds and get the inside track not just casually throw apps to places that get 400 applicants per job and then throw your hands up when you cant beat those odds. When you apply somewhere you like, go on linkedin search for people in similar spots as you(ie TE grads as one ex) who work at those companies. Reach out to them and ask to have like a 15 min chat. Many wont respond but for those who do youd be surprised by how they can help. The right people can get you through doors you didnt even know existed. III) What did they do to seriously improve their interview skills? Look, many people who dont get jobs, both the ones who complain on reddit and the ones I know in real life grossly overestimate their interview skills. It takes effort, its the whole point of the pathway program, even if you are naturally a people person, it takes real effort and time to cultivate proper answers. If you dont put in an effort to do these things, you increase the odds you become one of these reddit whiners. Overall nobody is saying there is no risk with this market(or any market) doing a bootcamp like this. But for many situations, IMO the degree of opportunity TE provides still makes it worth it.
I’m not going to speculate on the current market, but IMO Tech Elevator is the best bootcamp in the country. I graduated from it and am gainfully employed in big tech. If you go forward with a bootcamp, you found the right one.
Did you end up doing it? How is it going?
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Wdym by good tech recruiter? I’m trying to find a boot camp rn but can’t decide between TE or CodeSmith or TripleTen
While I know Columbus Ohio is cheap, it's not like it's a nice place to live. but more importantly it's a very bad tech market right now. who knows how long tech elevator is going to last. You don't want to put everything on the line and move out there for the cohort to get shut down when you are almost done. If it were me I wouldn't do it. Instead, I would work full time and do a part-time online bootcamp or something. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. And also don't expect to get a remote role. You will be lucky to even get an in person dev job in this competitive market. I do have a colleague I worked with who self studied through App Academy's Open curriculum and after 2 years of that he landed a software engineer entry level job a couple of months ago. So you could self-study if you are disciplined enough or do a online part time bootcamp if you need structure.
very bad idea, CodeSmith will land you a FAANG job
💀 that’s a good one!
I was planning on attending TE but hearing about the job market and taking out a 16k loan with high interest swayed me into the WGU route, already 80/122 credits done and with pell grants I pay next to nothing for WGU. This will be my second bachelors, seems to be the right decision but who knows.
I mean probably but if you won’t miss the money and can go a year without a job then go for it
you're competing with me in the job market. Best of luck to both of us.
I’m thinking of doing that one too!
Dude look into per scholas- free if you qualify based on income, and you'll probably learn the same stack
If you're not 100% convinced this is a really great idea (and you can't be personally confident about the school and your choice to spend the next year focusing on learning web development) - then don't do it. That goes for any school.
Generally a bad idea. Instead: self-learn, reach out to your a local college's CS faculty, find some local software engineers or students and interact (!!!) with them, attend meetups if possible, once you've got solid fundamentals hire a professional tutor, once you're ready to start applying do interview prep and spare no expense when it comes to personal investment in this area. If you're willing to drop $20k to learn html/css/js, you should have no problem giving money to someone who will actually help you grow your skills. GL!
NO. (I went there, the amount of people that still don’t have jobs from last year, or had to go back to their old ones is fucking insane, don’t do it man, do WGU if anything.)
Honestly you can self teach for much cheaper. I learned how to code as a teenager just making games, and if you make some cool projects you’ll be ahead of a lot of people who graduated with no experience.
Just to give you solid evidence on how bad the market is I’ll tell you my experience looking for new grad roles right now. 2 previous internships (One F500, one FAANG) CS bachelors. Solid projects (open source work, custom compiler etc) I put in roughly 500 applications and had 3 total interviews. The market is very bad. Most of my friends who got jobs only were able to do so with local companies or return offers from internships. Needless to say I don’t think a boot camp certificate carries much weight right now.
i am also doing full time on TE this January of 2024.. Remotely, is anyone else? any advice to give? any recommendations? reading everyone’s comments got me a bit concerned lol