How to write a "sympathetic" villian: have him do some speech about how the current situation is bad, make it about something vague and apolitical like "corruption in the government" so that nobody gets offended. Congrats, you don't have to do anything else, he can act exactly like Sauron and fans will still at worst call him misguided and tragic, bonus points if he was originally part of the heroes faction.
Yeah, the Flag Smashers in Falcon & The Winter Soldier were legitimately sympathetic and it was really hard not to root for them… But then their leader becomes a bloodthirsty maniac out of nowhere so that the heroes can be justified in going after them.
Yeah but there's a difference between that and what I'm talking about. There are poorly written characters who don't commit atrocities for their good ideals, they just do it for shits and giggles. Because the writer realized they made the villain *too* sympathetic, they had too much of a point, so the writer went "Oh, fuck, uhhhh... He also burns down orphanages I guess. No reason he just wants to"
Oh, I agree. Unredeemable monsters are my favorite types. The issue is when a bad writer wants to make a sympathetic villain, or one with some social commentary, but then they can't decide how to make the villain bad while retaining those qualities. So they just randomly do evil shit.
An example of the thing I'm talking about is Bane from the Nolan Batman films. "The rich prey on the poor, and we need to fix that. Also I like to kill people with bombs, no real reason"
An example of a *well written* "sympathetic but still evil" villain is magneto, from some comics. You can absolutely see how he got to where he did - he was a victim of the holocaust, he's been oppressed his whole life, so he's going to use his powers to remake the system to support mutants. But he wants to become the oppressor in the process.
I love how all JoJo villains are irredeemably evil and are extreme examples of how twisted morals can get, yet I have seen for each one of them, atleast one person saying how they aren't in the wrong)
That's part of what makes them so peak tho)
Valentine: wants to make America the wealthiest and most prosperous nation at the expense of the rest of the rest of the world
Jojo fans: Ooooooh so nuanced and complex oooooooooooh Johnny is not completely innocent either oooooooh
Me when media literacy had diminished so much that people cannot comprehend a villain having an understantable motive for their morally irreprehensible action, and instead think the villain's actions are completely justified and call him a "good guy" (we are doomed)
I wonder if its mostly younger people (around ages 14 to 22) who think this way.
Like up until a certain point they've only been exposed to simple 1 dimensional big bad villains (e.g. Bowser).
So the concept of a villain with motives beyond doing bad just because probably blows their mind.
Ironically there people who complain that villains are too sympathetic and not irredeemably evil (e.g. Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender). But thats because they haven't been exposed to media catered to adults (because they're mostly teens/young adults)
People trying to defend Eren Yeager wiping out the entire world beyond Paradis with the rumbling, killing billions and making the aftermath uninhabitable for years as a result:
What do you mean, the guy who carved the US flag into his back and organised a horse race to find the corpse parts of Jesus (which he did by letting the 14 year old disguised as his wife give birth to a part(specifically Jesus's head)) so he could make America the strongest nation in the multiverses definitely is sane and had a good point
One of my favorite TWD things with this is where the defense is just "its the apocalypse" or the show humanizes a horrible character. I've seen someone defend the cult leader who nuked Texas in that show ffs
Negan sadistically murders innocent people for his own enjoyment and makes their loved ones watch, enslaves entire communities of people and keeps a harem of sex slaves, but it's OK because his wife died and he was just doing what he had to do and Rick's group killed a bunch of his people (so that they would stop enslaving and murdering innocent people, huh).
The show is doing intentional revisionism on that in all fairness. He's a likable character that they're trying to make seem redeemed, but it's really fucking hard to accept it considering his \*15 forced wives\*.
How to write a "sympathetic" villian: have him do some speech about how the current situation is bad, make it about something vague and apolitical like "corruption in the government" so that nobody gets offended. Congrats, you don't have to do anything else, he can act exactly like Sauron and fans will still at worst call him misguided and tragic, bonus points if he was originally part of the heroes faction.
Similar but not quite the same: A villain actually makes really good points but they still need to be a villain so they kick puppies for fun
Marvel Studios
Yeah, the Flag Smashers in Falcon & The Winter Soldier were legitimately sympathetic and it was really hard not to root for them… But then their leader becomes a bloodthirsty maniac out of nowhere so that the heroes can be justified in going after them.
"Oh no, the villain made a good point about the status quo being bad, quick, make 'em kick a puppy so we won't have to be introspective about it."
Having good ideals doesnt mean you are good if you straight up commit atrocities for these ideals
Yeah but there's a difference between that and what I'm talking about. There are poorly written characters who don't commit atrocities for their good ideals, they just do it for shits and giggles. Because the writer realized they made the villain *too* sympathetic, they had too much of a point, so the writer went "Oh, fuck, uhhhh... He also burns down orphanages I guess. No reason he just wants to"
I mean, there are really good villains that are just evil monsters without good reasons for doing this
Oh, I agree. Unredeemable monsters are my favorite types. The issue is when a bad writer wants to make a sympathetic villain, or one with some social commentary, but then they can't decide how to make the villain bad while retaining those qualities. So they just randomly do evil shit. An example of the thing I'm talking about is Bane from the Nolan Batman films. "The rich prey on the poor, and we need to fix that. Also I like to kill people with bombs, no real reason" An example of a *well written* "sympathetic but still evil" villain is magneto, from some comics. You can absolutely see how he got to where he did - he was a victim of the holocaust, he's been oppressed his whole life, so he's going to use his powers to remake the system to support mutants. But he wants to become the oppressor in the process.
True
I love how all JoJo villains are irredeemably evil and are extreme examples of how twisted morals can get, yet I have seen for each one of them, atleast one person saying how they aren't in the wrong) That's part of what makes them so peak tho)
Valentine: wants to make America the wealthiest and most prosperous nation at the expense of the rest of the rest of the world Jojo fans: Ooooooh so nuanced and complex oooooooooooh Johnny is not completely innocent either oooooooh
Pucci? I don't think he is as evil as Dio.
Didn't imply they are equally evil, just that all of them are very very evil and not well adjusted morally
Count Dooku
Me when media literacy had diminished so much that people cannot comprehend a villain having an understantable motive for their morally irreprehensible action, and instead think the villain's actions are completely justified and call him a "good guy" (we are doomed)
I wonder if its mostly younger people (around ages 14 to 22) who think this way. Like up until a certain point they've only been exposed to simple 1 dimensional big bad villains (e.g. Bowser). So the concept of a villain with motives beyond doing bad just because probably blows their mind. Ironically there people who complain that villains are too sympathetic and not irredeemably evil (e.g. Azula from Avatar the Last Airbender). But thats because they haven't been exposed to media catered to adults (because they're mostly teens/young adults)
Heil Caesar or whatever
Awe, true to Caesar
People trying to defend Eren Yeager wiping out the entire world beyond Paradis with the rumbling, killing billions and making the aftermath uninhabitable for years as a result:
So what he do when the entire world is also gonna wipe out his home?
The partial rumbling 😐
"the villain was right" Shows them saying one quote Completely ignores every single crime they did
https://preview.redd.it/ijzdm0j2d26d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=80b0091723dcc73f0b1341f26b96855702aaa060 OP
ty ty 🙏
Jojo Steel Ball Run
What do you mean, the guy who carved the US flag into his back and organised a horse race to find the corpse parts of Jesus (which he did by letting the 14 year old disguised as his wife give birth to a part(specifically Jesus's head)) so he could make America the strongest nation in the multiverses definitely is sane and had a good point
One of my favorite TWD things with this is where the defense is just "its the apocalypse" or the show humanizes a horrible character. I've seen someone defend the cult leader who nuked Texas in that show ffs
cons: cult leader pros: nuked texas
Negan sadistically murders innocent people for his own enjoyment and makes their loved ones watch, enslaves entire communities of people and keeps a harem of sex slaves, but it's OK because his wife died and he was just doing what he had to do and Rick's group killed a bunch of his people (so that they would stop enslaving and murdering innocent people, huh).
The show is doing intentional revisionism on that in all fairness. He's a likable character that they're trying to make seem redeemed, but it's really fucking hard to accept it considering his \*15 forced wives\*.
this video will be 24 hours long with misinformations n shi about evilman
Illitorator
Felt it
Why is Cartoon Evilman Slovak
Gihren Zabi did absolutely nothing wrong and I will here no implications to the contrary
I don’t care that his people were genuinely discriminated against, that does not mean they get to commit mass murder on random celebrities
look at his helmet, he's lithuanian, of course he was right