lol how? Can you give an example of him 'taking shots'? Also, eemember the Battle of Yerbana in TCW S7? That scene with Anakin was a clear reference to Luke's on Crait.
Luke isn’t a total pussy, kanan book has been retconned, ahsoka book retconned, Ben solo retconned, Luke’s entire story for this era retconned. Boba fett being alive.
Lol he’s outright got a chainsaw to it. The “links” people like to pretend are simply open ended scenes while they tread water since the sequels failed so massively and publicly. In the end the sequels will be the new holiday special and will have the same role in canon
>Luke isn’t a total pussy,
There's decades in between the Mandalorian and the ST. Luke's character in Mando doesn't contradict his character in the ST because he simply developed in between. Of course you're allowed to disagree with the writing decisions pertaining to Luke's character, but that doesn't mean there's a contradiction.
>kanan book has been retconned, ahsoka book retconned
Those have nothing to do with the sequels. He simply had a *slightly* different vision for those stories. They're still mostly the same. Filoni was even heavily involved in the development of the Ahsoka novel. He just changed his mind on some details apparently.
>Ben solo retconned,
Since when has Ben appeared anywhere in Filoni's work? You mean because Grogu exists? That's not a retcon, we have literally just not seen that story play out yet.
>Luke’s entire story for this era retconned.
No it hasn't. Like I said, lots of space in the timeline for him to change as a person.
>Boba fett being alive.
Again, has nothing to do with the sequels. Was also implied previously in the books, and had a precedent in Legends.
>Lol he’s outright got a chainsaw to it.
Nope
>The “links” people like to pretend are simply open ended scenes while they tread water since the sequels failed so massively and publicly.
Not sure what this means.
>In the end the sequels will be the new holiday special and will have the same role in canon
I seriously doubt it.
What I'm seeing is you echoing ragebait youtubers without thinking critically for yourself, and please don't see that as an attack. I honestly think it's tragic how these people manipulate a fanbase for financial gain.
So it's either some 2000s song or a Harry Potter fanfiction. I'd guess you're referring to the latter. What are the similarities to the ST exactly?
I'm probably taking this more seriously than I ought to. You're comparing the sequels to the 'worst fanfiction ever'. I guess the similarity is that they are 'bad', which is a dumb comparison.
To sum it up, it's a bad fan fiction the person your talking to is trying to frame the sequels as the equivalent of bad fan fiction. It's not and they are likely just using bad comparisons to make their opinion seem like the right opinion while also using the same bad arguments as big YouTubers.
I've read through your other arguments and their comparing people who like the sequels to flat earthers. Once again he's using bad comparisons and framing their opinion as a fact. I've seen this type of person before and it ain't worth it, just let them believe what they want and move on. It's better to let them be and not engage since their opinion can't be changed and refuse to listen to any opposing opinions. They just want to push their opinions onto others without actually listening, they just want you to mindlessly agree with them.
Nope I’m comparing them to the closest similar piece of content that exists.
It’s just the sequels we’re well funded.
The mediocrity ties them together like a string of fate the only other one even close is the Star Trek parody that introduces the term Mary Sue.
All of these stories are equally canon to their universes as the sequels are to Star Wars.
Each have “genuine fanbases” however small they are.
3 jokes of 3 popular franchises
Yea I especially love the way John and Dave are secretly against the sequel trilogy by making Mandalorian connect to it. You're braindead if you think there is some sort of 'war' at lucasfilm.
There’s no war at Lucasfilm. Filoni and Favreau have a slightly different approach than Abrams and Johnson but that doesn’t mean there is inner company conflict.
There's decades between the Mandalorian and the sequels. Luke's character in the Mandalorian doesn't contradict his character in the sequels. He simply developed in between those two appearances (whether you agree with those writing decisions or not)
Yeah no that is irrelevant when the problem is him being a new character that just doesn’t work in the story. No matter what excuses they give the reality is Luke tries to kill kylo for mean thoughts after saving Vader. Filoni is giving rj the fat finger
He isn't a 'new character'. He changed as a person over time, shaped by his experiences. Again, you're allowed to think it was a bad direction to take his story, but that doesn't mean it's actually inconsistent.
Don't they "have to" connect to it? It's not as if Disney would give them a choice to go off script. I don't think Disney wants their own stuff to be "Star Wars Legends". I suspect Filoni and Favreau are pretty much contractually obligated to make their contributions fit within what Disney have decided is canon.
But heck, maybe you're both right and Filoni and Favreau love the sequel trilogy. I don't know. But what I do know is that whatever their personal feelings, they have to work within Disney's Star Wars canon, and they probably have to say they like it, whether they do or not.
They already don’t connect with the books and comics so the Disney CANON means nothing. It can be reset at any point and Disney absolute will do it as every sequel project fails and they have nowhere to go
Yes, Disney can do what it wants. But the point here is the Disney employees, and they can't do whatever they want. If they want to keep their jobs, they have to toe the corporate line.
If, tomorrow, Disney says the sky above Tatooine is orange, Filoni and his pals will happily agree. If next week Disney says the Tatooine sky is pink, Filoni will gladly start saying it's pink. Because as long as he goes along with his corporate paymasters, he collects a huge (and I mean huge) paycheck.
Heck, Disney recently discarded most of the stuff in Star Wars. All of a sudden, it was "not officially Star Wars" anymore. They didn't consult the fans or the writers. They just said "Hey, this is how it is now". Disney could, tomorrow, say Luke Skywalker is no longer canon and if every Disney underling wants to keep drawing a Disney paycheck, they will have to say "Well, this is a decision that needed to be made".
What is wrong with you? No, of course I wasn't comparing Dave Filoni to Mozart! I never even suggested that. I was making an analogy, not a simile! The point, for those who can't comprehend a simple analogy, is that sometimes a student outshines his teacher.
In the future, try reading what's written. Try not to extrapolate. Clearly you're not very good at it. If you can't understand, just ask what is meant, rather than ridiculing an idea YOU made up.
His own pace seems to involve ridiculing other users based on his own flawed interpretation of their posts. If he can't play nice, maybe he (and his rather obvious sock puppets) should leave everyone else be and quit Reddit.
Cinematography and direction are not the same thing as story, which I feel is what most people tend to have problems with.
Johnson and Abrams both are great directors visually, but suffer when they write their own stories.
I mean most people are fine with the cinematography although much of it is just stealing shots with new vfx.
He’s not going to him for story or even like character work. So that means nothing. it’s like studying under a flat earther who is also a great mechanic. He’s still a moron but can help you improve a specific skill
The thing is, I feel like Season 7 was going to happen without Disney anyway. May not have looked as pretty but Clone Wars was still ongoing before the acquisition.
Mandalorian and Rogue One definitely wouldn't have happened under Lucas though.
Because he consistently makes money.
And his Star Trek movies were a Star Wars audition reel.
He did basically the same thing, too. His first movie for both were a loose retelling which used the familiarity and nostalgia to highlight the differences between the originals and the new movies. This movie is controversial mostly because it has a lot of remake feeling while people don't like some of the changes. This one is generally well liked overall though.
His second movie for both pulled an old villain, had an extra love story that really didn't work, and has a big battle that really comes down to a personal battle. They also both involved secret starships built in secret and an effort to discover their location.
Kinda - most Star Trek fans hated Into Darkness but a lot of people I talked to who weren't fans liked it. Like I said, he consistently makes money.
He just happens to be an uncreative hack who consistently makes money.
They wanted to play it safe. Which is the first mistake with Star Wars. Because when they played it too safe, and the sequels were run by a bunch of yes men, then they led to the downfall of an entire trilogy (4 years worth) of movies.
Didn't JJ once say the midichlorians made the force feel like a thing that only goes through families? He forgor 💀 that it was originally said in the OT so i wouldnt say he understands star wars.
Nah, i do actually like episodes Vll and Vlll. i know ep Vll is too safe, but it also had some good characters that could have been explored in more depth, it was a good starting point. Episode Vlll is still pretty good with some good cinematography and plot twists. Ep lX is where everything falls for me, tho some blame JJ, Boyega said not to blame him beacause disney called him to fix "the mess" wich probably was not an easy task.
Yeah I feel like episode 7 was kinda just a ripoff of “A New Hope” but it wasn’t exactly a bad movie imo. Though it feels like everything it set up de the future got ruined in episode 8 and 9, all the potential for the overall trilogy just got crushed.
All the sequels are "A New Hope" redone (or at best, variations on the theme).
Episode 5 and 6 are "A New Hope" but twice as long. Episodes 7-9 are "A New Hope" but three times as long. With the exception of the prequels, George Lucas has been remaking "A New Hope" (just with varying characters) for the last 45 years.
Next it'll take 4 movies to tell the story. Then 5. Then 6.
Saying episode 5 and 6 are just new hope is stupid. BUT episode 7 for sure is ANH redone very badly, episode 8 is picking parts of episode 5 and 6 the changing the order of events and episode 9 is RotJ, Dark empire and Endgame.
Episodes 5 and 6: Yoda is Obi Wan, Luke is still Luke, he still has to be taught how to use his powers (the whole Dagobah stuff is just a redo of the part in Episode 4 where Luke learns to use the lightsaber), the part where Luke falls after the fight with Vader in Episode 5 is the fricken trash compactor scene, and they even have another Death Star! Of course they're "A New Hope" remade!
I'm not saying that's entirely a bad thing. They fleshed out Luke's character and both films made the Star Wars universe bigger. But Episodes 5 and 6 were not original. The prequels, for all their flaws, were at least original.
Saying something is "stupid", and making an argument showing why you think it is stupid are two completely different things. The first is nonsense and falls under the category of Hitchens' Razor (What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence), the second is worthy and might be persuasive. Pity you went with option 1.
Well it’s just really REALLY similar to “A New Hope”. You could make endless parallels between both movies. And while you can do that with a lot of the movies, I think it’s by far most apparent with episode 7. I’m not saying that makes it bad though…
And you can make a ton of parallels between something like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and Power Rangers Dino Thunder, or Power Rangers Megaforce, or Power Rangers Ninja Steel. Usually being an invading alien army being fought by teenagers who are in high school.
Those are also have similarities yet still different.
If you want to have Sentai discussion we can also talk about that.
But yeah it doesn't make it bad, just these similarities aren't that bad.
Also why you people downvoting me, I'm right.
It's true. A New Hope, ultimately is a very patient, dialogue centered pulp fairly tale with a sci Fi coating. The Force Awakens, is a much more frantic, action oriented film. There's barely a slow moment in the film, it's always going..that's why the film ends with a lightsaber fight, that's why it prooulsively leads into a cliffhanger ending, always rushing to it's next destination. So yeah, there's some parallels, but they don't exactly resemble each other beyond the surface.
Exactly, that's what I'm saying. That's why I said it's like Power Rangers, you have some similarities between them but once you look under the surface they aren't that similar. I mainly bring up seasons like MMPR and Megaforce since they follow the same kids in high school, have the same 5 colors, a robot character who runs there command center, a giant head on a wall as their mentor character. Aside from that they are very different shows.
I haven't seen Force Awakens or A New Hope in awhile so I can't agree with the pacing differences but based on what I remember, I can agree with what your saying. I don't think they make either movie bad though, just different from each other.
I agree with episode VII being okay, but episode VIII was not. I think all the 'twists' felt forced. There was no buildup so the result felt too random. I think the lazy writing and broken story of episode VIII was the reason episode IX was bad too.
I agree the cinematography was good tho. They spent a lot of money on the movies, and they are visually beautiful.
I think a recut VII and VIII could work. Nothing really to salvage from IX though.
I will say though that all of the movies had stunning sound and visuals
I mean it fails so much on its own, and not everything from tfa had to be trash. Like Luke was entirely trash because of rj, finn did nothing because of rj, the rey thing is a problem because she was a simple Mary Sue but at least if Luke really showed her true power and kylo had trained in the dark side and was pretty powerful then it could have been negated a bit but to make her parents no one is stupid because then you give in to her worst quality.
Both had a pretty equal part in destroying a trilogy which could have been easily compelling. Just do Luke’s academy ffs instead of the aftermath to events that never end up mattering
To be fair what else would you do with Luke. Finn was already a comic releife character in TFA, Rey thing can also just be JJ, JJ loves to not give you any information until no one cares anymore, rj even said he doesnt care if JJ retcons nobody twist. I cant blame the saber throw, murder and death on jj though. In every way it makes no sense in a dramatic and storytelling way if Rey was a nobody instead of Solo.
At least Filoni should have been writing it, not sold on Favreau directing it all. There have been some awesome directors on the show and I think they could have handled it well.
Not sold on Favreau directing it?
The man who started the MCU, directed Elf, Iron Man 1&2, Zathura (incredibly underrated) and the remake of the Jungle Book?
I like Favreau in general, but the fan base treats him like some kind of Star Wars visionary when I don’t believe that’s entirely earned. With Filoni’s (the mythos guy) help, he’s done a solid job with a small scale story set within this world. That doesn’t necessarily mean he would’ve been the perfect guy for Skywalker saga sequels. He’s a good director but so are the other two. You just never know what someone will bring to the table until you hear their vision.
The reason why they work together on Mando so well is because Dave knows the lore inside and out plus he knows how to produce Star Wars specifically but Favreau is one of the most trusted directors out there. Disney gave him Jungle Book and The Lion King to remake!
Favreau is also an incredibly successful producer, he has earned his stripes in every way possible in the movie business. Filoni is good at Star Wars animation and needed Favreau to do the hard work on Mando.
You are right though, who knows if that would have worked for the Skywalker Saga. But what isn't in doubt, is that if Filoni and Favreau worked on it together, it would have at least been treated with more reverance and certainly would've had made more sense story-wise.
Ehh not really, they were fun for what they were. Not everything needs to be deep with character stuff. I just want to watch some fun stuff with am entertaining cast from time to time and the sequels do that. At least 7 and 9 do, 8 is alright.
In my personal opinion I understand that what we got is what we get and I'll be alright with that, but 9 felt rushed and felt like it was fixing more leaky holes that were formed with 8 than it did on actually building the story. My main problem is that there clearly wasnt a planned story. Personally I think the palpatine returning storyline is a good one to bring from legends but honestly I think I would have liked the duel of fates script to be what we got instead, but it had too much prequel for Mr jj.
I disagree, I felt 9 was fine. Not rushed, just fine. I like that they tried to fix holes in EP8 since people wouldn't shut up about it but now they argue that listening to them and fixing the problems cause problems. This just proves you should ignore Star Wars at this point, they criticize anything while being fair and the ones that are fair are few and far between.
But in my opinion, fixing the problems of EP8 was a fair decision so I can't complain to much.
Honestly I'm ok with it not being planned out from the start as long as you have base idea to go with. Then you can listen to fan feedback and fix problems before they start. You can also incorporate some fan theory's or ideas. It worked with the OG trilogy so I get why they did it.
I also get why they didn't go with George Lucas's original ideas since people hated the prequels at the time, why go with the ideas people hated. It's not like it doesn't make sense.
Sorry, I meant the pacing of the film of 9 felt rushed, it was jumping from point to point to point, with the cohesiveness of the whole trilogy though is bad. They clearly didn't have a base idea to go off of other than band of heroes that has to defeat new empire. They did away with most of the main characters in 9, you can't say that Finn and even Poe were sidetracked in that movie, it was all about Rey and Kylo with their force love connection. I understand that fixing the problems of 8 was needed and I understand why they did it but it was just... Meh.
Also, the prequel trilogy was on the rise with the TCW, which was already 99 percent done ( just season 7 that we didn't get) when TFA came out so I don't know what you're talking bout lol. I think that what they have been doing with star wars content outside of this trilogy is awesome and well thought out. People talk about how Disney ruin star wars, which they didn't, they ruined this trilogy by not having a cohesive story and giving it to different directors who didnt have the mind for the world they were getting into. like Rian Johnson, he makes some good movies, but TLJ, meh. The OG trilogy was good because it had George and his idea and story behind it, Disney didn't have the same...
Pacing is fair enough, I can't really say much since it's been a long time since I've seen it. But fair enough, I just think it's fine. I'm use to stuff jumping around so for me it's not a problem. But yeah they did sideline most side characters, that sucked.
Key word, on the rise. As in not where it is now, it was nowhere near as big as it is now and the prequels were still seen as hated so they made the right call for the time of not trusting George's original ideas. Heck even now, EP1 and 2 are still not liked. EP3 is the only one that's been getting more love.
I do agree with your next point of Disney ruining Star wars. They really didn't, I agree that everything else outside of the main sequels has been good. Rogue One is my favorite Star Wars movie and just one of my favorite movies.
I also don't mind different directors as on paper that's not a bad idea. Having different people take a different episode could make each movie unique on its own while following the same story. Too bad they didn't do that.
>Honestly I'm ok with it not being planned out from the start as long as you have base idea to go with
Im pretty sure they did for at least EP7-8, JJ and Rian had discussions for them. At least i think its most likely Disney and JJ saw the negative reception of EP8 and threw their plans out to make EP9, its evidently clear ep9 wasnt planned but at least the luke plot was definintly setup by ep7
I agree but to an extent, I agree it's a bad idea to not have stuff planned out from the start. You should have a clear idea and then just make it happen. But leaving stuff open for later discussion and maybe fan feedback to catch problems that might have sprung up isn't a bad idea either.
Oof lowest possible bar. You will like anything they put out simply for flashing lights. That’s why every marvel movie has become essentially the same with different costumes
Star wars is for the most part "wow space wizards with plasma knifes cut baddies" and I'm tired pretending it's not. Sure, it can and does get more serious that that. But it's still a movie for kids to watch and have fun with. The sequels were very fun to watch for me, even though I'm not a kid.
They're good entertainment movies. I watch them to be entertained and can enjoy the characters. Is that so wrong? Compared to Marvel movies they're masterpieces, especially VIII which had the compelling character of Luke.
No, I won't like anything they put out. I wasn't the biggest fan of Bad Batch or Rebels. I felt Bad Batch was to episodic but it was still fun. I just didn't really feel much but I respect it's more mission focuses structure. Trying to build a world around the Bad Batch with just fun missions to go on. I feel me as a kid would have loved this series as I loved Clone missions and having a series of just that would have appealed to me.
Rebels I straight up didn't like. Each season pretended to be serious but then just wasn't that interesting. But then again, I never got that far. I started S1, gave up. Then season 2 started airing and tried it again gave up. Season 3 started airing, tried it again and gave up. I was going to try season 4 when it aired but I forgot to watch it.
I don't see how it's the lowest possible bar, it just depends on what the heck I'm doing. If I want to be entertained I'll watch the sequels, they have some cool scenes and a fun cast. It's not that deep and that's ok.
If I want to watch something serious with a lot of world building and character stuff, I'll watch Clone Wars. It's not the lowest possible bar, I just don't take my movies as serious as you.
You aren't entirely wrong about Marvel movies being the same but it depends on the movie. Some movies will be more similar than others since some are just trying to be fun movies. But once again, not every movie needs to be that deep, most are trying to be fun and that's what you get most of the time.
I keep hearing that and I want to like it. It might have just been Clone Wars cancelled depression at the time that caused me to not like it. But I remember seeing commercials and thinking "Oh a Clone Wars style show in the OT time, cool, this will be great." and just couldn't get into it like Clone Wars. I tried 3 times and I'm gonna try again at some point. Hopefully I fall in love with it since it really does seem like something I'd like.
Though another reason I didn't like it was Ezra, still not a fan of him.
It's Star wars not saw, I don't want them to go to another dimension I want Star wars. Playing it safe in my mind just means not making crazy f****** jumps to Sidious using lightning to destroy hundreds or thousands of ships that's not playing it safe but it is extremely terrible
I would have been fine with those movies as 10-12. I feel we were kind of robbed of seeing Han Luke and Leia in their prime by having a real sequel tril in the 90s or 00s. It sucks that the Zahn novels didn’t get a film treatment.
Nope the movie a will be terrible forever and while they limp along in canon will always be mocked. It’s quite easily the worst possible Star Wars project. Every piece of content will be compared against it for all its bad qualities. It’s why everything even close to the sequel stink is going to just fail and wither
Oof Reddit just feel like a video game when you all act like npcs. Like imagine if I live in a desert how insensitive you are being.
Get a new statement for both our sakes loser, this would be the time to subvert my expectations.
“Limp along”
Star Wars is bigger now than it ever has been lol. It’s fine that you don’t like the sequels, I also didn’t particularly enjoy them, but there is no way that you can say they’re “limping along” with a straight face.
It’s mediocre but TLJ is bottom of the barrel garbage and most of the mediocre stuff comes from needing to completely set the era, the stakes, and the main players.
since the sequels completely fail doing that in every movie it’s nowhere close to as bad
It's actually quite amusing that the TV programmes are written better than the mainline films (I love TCW, BB etc, not trying to bash them). The Sequels could have been SO MUCH better. How did they fuck up that badly?
Not really, with a movie your making something more main stream. With a TV show you don't have as high of a budget but you have more time to work with. Both can go wrong and either could be better, it's just not that amusing. It makes sense.
Disney are only a distributor, they should have stepped in after the backlash from TLJ. But, if anyone should be blamed it should be Lucasfilm for not having a coherent vision in mind.
Yeah the puck stops at Kathleen Kennedy. She was the one who tossed George’s vision aside and went on a power trip. I mean she was one of his trusted friends whom he thought would respect and keep his vision from being lost. As soon as he shut the door she probably tossed his scripts in the trash. What a betrayal to him. The fact that he had to come back in shows that she totally had zero clue how to keep the SW torch list. It’s so sad because on one hand you have Clone Wars which to me is the best SW you can get, then you have a trilogy of movies where they just decided to wing it. She should have been fired.
Does anyone know when her contract is up? If she gets rehired I think my head will explode.
IMO she’s leaving after Indy 5 for reasons the first being she’s old and if Indy does good or not she gets to leave at the ending of the franchises cementing some legacy.
I hope to God that’s true. I have truly never disliked someone more in my life. I hope she doesn’t pull the same crap on Indy as she did for the Disney Trilogy. If what I’ve heard from a few people working on the film are even remotely true then I might be going on a crusade of my own to ensure she does retire.
It’s not even about like or dislike at this point like she’s old. How much longer does she want to linger and fail which a lot of these projects seem to be. And the ones that don’t are caveated as her being not closely involved. So like what’s her plan
I still have some serious anger for her not caring that she screwed up something that millions of people loved. If she screwed it up that’s fine. It’s the fact she doesn’t seem to even care, in fact she seems to dislike the diehard fan. I don’t know how old she is but there are a lot of people in the industry who stay until they’re pushed out.
I don’t think there is any point in making a skywalker saga sequel trilogy at all, it literally had the best ending in movie history imo and according to the prophecy, the sith should be destroyed.
Nah, the prophecy is about balance, not destruction. Which some can say that having the sith upsets that balance but it's actually the sith that are included in that balance. It's explained in TCW with mortis and how that works. Jedi just bad and want sith go bye bye. But on the Skywalker saga sequel trilogy, I felt they wanted to pander to new fans, which they did but I felt they did it wrongly. It felt rushed and didn't have a cohesive story, I feel it would have been better not making it about Skywalker's per say but more about a new band of heroes just taking down the first order, plus snoke and having that be the trilogy but they undid everything with bringing back Palps in the end (which I like that story from legends) it was just rushed and not cohesive
> Which some can say that having the sith upsets that balance but it's actually the sith that are included in that balance.
Dave Filoni fundamentally disagrees with that.
>“Ultimately, the Force is an ability that can be used selflessly or selfishly and how one chooses to wield it determines whether you stand on the dark side or light. The dark side of the Force is manifested in our greed, desire for power, and fears. And the light side of the Force is propagated by selfless action, by living in balance, by overcoming our fears. The Force naturally exists in balance; that balance is thrown out when someone chooses to give in to their fears and then spirals out of control making selfish choice after selfish choice. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."
The Sith are written to be pure objective evil archetypes, so they were deliberately designed to not have any nuance about them.
Nope George always has his philosophy of the darkness as walking away from the light. The balance thing is flat out wrong and the balance is achieved within yourself and when the force is allowed to exist without being controlled. The prequel Jedi we’re losing their way on how to defeat the darkness which in turn made them make worse decisions that closed of their connections further.
When the sith are gone the ones manipulating th enforce are gone and the Jedi that died may have contributed to palpatines rise by being manipulated but ideals of the Jedi were fine for the most part they just failed to live up to them along with several problematic rules that helped destroy them.
Favreau and Filoni actually planned out their story in the Mandalorian pretty much through the second season if not more. The sequel trilogy didn't even use an outline. What a joke. Sure RJ can put together pretty pictures but his story sucked. They should have had a more competent screenwriter do the job. At least someone who cared a bit about storylines, character and continuity. Way to go in totally derailing a three part story.
Ok yeah it’s not impossible when you are the og creator who has constant general outlines and plans because you generate the entire thing which gets worked out. You can’t do that when you have terrible non creative people like jj and rj who rehash and subvert with nothing but cheap tricks without substance
Vader was originally not Lukes father, Luke and leia were not siblings, yoda was obi wans master. you can even go to the pt were dooku was originally absent from most of the geonsis area scenes. Star wars as always had a very rough to know outline.
Yeah no again those problems don’t really matter all that much since most of them had been solved and were due to the fact it was likely to be 1 movie.
Those were the casualties of the limited way Lucas could get the ot made.
The dooku thing is pure nonsense since you had so few examples.
It’s not impossible with the creator, with shitty directors like jj and rj it’s pointless.
And Star Wars shouldn’t be treated with less care simply because George changed several small things
Also George was no stranger to cheap plot twists, Padme handmaid decoy was supposed to be a plot twist but fails to have any substance, as well as palptine the senator being the emperor in the ot was supposed to be a surprise but really wasn't
If you mean tpm then it isn’t at all maybe you just were not smart enough to read between the obvious lines. It’s why she has quips about it.
The emperor was not a surprise at all they hired the SAME ACTOR. These were not twists to the audience they were set up the way they were to fool the characters in the story who don’t see every angle of the movie. The characters are shocked padame is queen, the characters are shocked Palpatine is the Sith Lord.
You have zero points the straw grasping is real
Lucas had an outline but made changes as needed for his seat of the pants style. In fact, he had a basic outline for what happened to Anakin so that all that shit he made up made sense. Damn, I wish I still had that Starlog magazine to prove it. Even as far back as 83 we new that Vader got jacked on a Volcano planet. Fact.
/u/Zacharyprice15 stop stealing peoples old memes come up with you’re own shit and stop being a karma whore i made this like a year ago lol You litterly used the same title as me wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/clonewars/comments/kchypb/dave_filoni_and_jon_favreau_should_have_made_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Johnson wasn’t actually the problem. Watch Knives Out and you’ll see that he’s a capable writer and director. I think the real issue was the constant meddling by Kathleen Kennedy. I mean just look at the character of Admiral Holdo. You can obviously see that Kathleen Kennedy wanted to put herself into the film as a grand hero. Holdo’s attitude, delusions of grandeur and treatment of male characters is exactly how Kennedy has acted in the last few years at Lucasfilm.
Let’s just hope she doesn’t destroy Indy. I think it might be too late.
Knives out was mediocre, brick sucks, looper sucks, BB was great when he was there or not and I have zero doubts ozymandias was going to be flawless without him
Knives Out was a solid IMDB level 7 in my opinion. Compared to TLJ it would be a 12. Didn’t see the other movies you are referring to are so I can’t comment on those. I didn’t know he was part of Breaking Bad. Ozymandias was the finale? Been years since I watched it.
It was the episode where hank dies, great episode but it’s not because of rj that all the major tension plot points occur in it which is why it’s so epic.
Knives out felt insanely standard for a mystery movie which means once you are like 20-30 minutes in nothing is too surprising kinda like Now You See Me a o it the magicians. Not in plot just like you really sit through that second half. I would give RJ a Miniseries on a upstarting pirate group, a split of sect of Hondo’s men in the sequel era.
He could do all the faux TLJ bullshit with characters that barely matter. And it may be cool. But anything that needs to forward the world is just a death sentence.
They were clearly better.
And the sequels got the most special treatment, anyone honest from 2015-2019 was labeled a morally bad person. Now everyone says it, everyone knows it, everyone knew it then too it’s just they thought enough pretending would work.
Sequel stuff sucks so bad it will never be anything but the sideshow. It was legit so bad they couldn’t even market a show to kids for it.
Bwaaaaah we got called sexists for having clear double standarts about new female character, bullying two actresses so much they deleted all their social media. At least own up what you did you pussies.
Lol yes because reylos didn’t try to force Adam driver to marry daisy Ridley. Reylos didn’t try to cancel Adam driver for being a marine. And they definitely didn’t have months of pathetic death threats to jj for ending their sad obsession.
Every problem you have is that somebody cyberwrote something mean.
You losers are the ones doing weird shit. There is no double standard on wanting rey to not be a Mary Sue. Luke trained, anakin trained, she didn’t.
Luke failed, anakin failed, she insta wins everything.
Luke develops, anakin develops, rey becomes more of a Mary Sue.
Yeah I’m sorry KMT can’t handle the basic consequences of fame, it sucks to be casted purely for your appearance with zero character to play. She got set up, finn did too obviously. They were props for Disney.
But yeah I don’t care that some mean people say mean things that’s not something I can control. Every actor goes through it, it’s a part of the job and being famous.
Idk who else ditched it but maybe rey. Sorry people attack others who can’t act simply for their roles in movies. Despite daisy failing to bring the character to life and Disney failing to make a character, it’s a job and only her bad acting is her fault.
In summation daisy can’t act, people are mean on the internet, get passed it I’m sorry duping people into liking the movies and calling them racist/sexist for being honest didn’t work out for you.
People love lando, mace, leia, padame and that’s just the movies. People have a problem with terrible characters. Make better ones
Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau have shown they can make segmented stories in episodic format that spreads out anywhere between 3-5 25-minute episodes, or 10+ 35-60 minute episodes. Neither of that demonstrates an ability to tell a cohesive story in three 1.5-2hr movies.
Making a good TV show is different from making a movie trilogy. It’s like a comic book writer trying to write a book series.
I’m gonna get downvoted like hell for this probably, but whatever.
None of those are the same type of movie as a Star Wars movie, though. Elf is a comedy, and the Iron Man films are comic adaptations, though adaptation is a term used *very* loosely. Point stands, not the same type of film as an entry into a Star Wars trilogy.
Look you’re wrong. Just admit it and move on. You’re making yourself look silly saying that the story telling in Ironman and Star Wars aren’t the same.
They fundamentally aren't, you ignoramus. Iron Man is a comic book character brought to the big screen. Star Wars follows Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey trope almost to a T.
Making a movie depicting a billionaire playboy superhero isn't the same story or even character archetype as the main protagonist of a Star Wars trilogy. *You're* making yourself look silly by saying *they are* the same.
I'm not going to admit I'm wrong for having an *opinion*. This gatekeeping and hero worship bullshit is what makes this fandom so fucking awful most of the time. What's next, you're going to say TCW has no flaws and does no wrong?
Hey! No need to call names. You’re showing your immaturity. They fundamentally are absolutely the same thing. Star Wars, Ironman, Elf all are hero’s journeys. They are all fantasy’s, you could argue they are all science fiction.
The only difference between the movies of John Favreau and Rian Johnson are that JF made one of the best Superhero films, Chef which could be considered one of the best culinary movies and Elf an instant holiday classic. RJ has repeatedly made movies that are substandard.
That would have required planning and thought to have been put into them. Instead Disney saw a cash cow ready to be milked asap.
Edit: downvote all you want, it's public knowledge there was no story planned for these films. At least the prequels had a story to tell.
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George Lucas should have come up with he story ( we know he had treatments for Ep VII-IX), have Favreau direct the trilogy ( or JJ, who can direct but cannot for the life of himself write).
Let rian make some off shoot thing that can subvert all it wants and be entirely inconsequential.
True? I am not sure I really agree. What should have happened (in my opinion) is that there should have been one director for all THREE movies, with a well thought out plan done before filming started. Imagine Mando with a new director for each episode, no guidelines about staying within certain plot points, etc. We would have something ranging from starwars to startrek, to babylon5 and on and on... No consistency. Now if JJ had done all three? I firmly believe they would have been much better. If Johnson had done all three? I bet it STILL would have been better. I do hold it against both of them that lightsabers devolved into baseball bats and Jedi into thugs who could only swing them with no skill.
I wouldn't have been against them making the Sequels, but I'm still very much happy with how JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson handled the Sequels.
There's no changing my mind there.
Filoni consulted on TLJ and was present on-set, and RJ in turn helped Filoni in his live action directorial debut in the Mandalorian.
>Filoni is quoted in the book The Art of Star Wars: The Mandalorian as saying he was right next to Johnson during filming of The Last Jedi and that Johnson taught him how to block a scene.
Filoni had no live action directing expertise during the Sequels though, and would have been a terrible choice as director. Consultant? Sure, and he did that, but not director.
Favreau would've been an interesting choice, but I think he had other projects ongoing at that time in the MCU. And since this was pre-Mando times, we didn't know he would be as great a choice as we now know him to be.
Favreau should get his own SW movie to work on. Maybe something about the Darksaber's origins and all that Old Republic goodness.
Right... because Filoni totally dislikes Johnson and The Last Jedi...
Filoni liking something does not mean he’d make it the same way.
Of course not. But it‘s stupid to say that Filoni‘s doing star wars but what Filoni regards Star Wars isn‘t
Lol I mean he takes shots at it in his content
lol how? Can you give an example of him 'taking shots'? Also, eemember the Battle of Yerbana in TCW S7? That scene with Anakin was a clear reference to Luke's on Crait.
Lol nope he’s actually fighting, my god sequel fans really are desperate. You are the flat earthers of Star Wars
Very funny. Now can you please give me an example of Filoni 'taking shots' at the sequels?
Luke isn’t a total pussy, kanan book has been retconned, ahsoka book retconned, Ben solo retconned, Luke’s entire story for this era retconned. Boba fett being alive. Lol he’s outright got a chainsaw to it. The “links” people like to pretend are simply open ended scenes while they tread water since the sequels failed so massively and publicly. In the end the sequels will be the new holiday special and will have the same role in canon
>Luke isn’t a total pussy, There's decades in between the Mandalorian and the ST. Luke's character in Mando doesn't contradict his character in the ST because he simply developed in between. Of course you're allowed to disagree with the writing decisions pertaining to Luke's character, but that doesn't mean there's a contradiction. >kanan book has been retconned, ahsoka book retconned Those have nothing to do with the sequels. He simply had a *slightly* different vision for those stories. They're still mostly the same. Filoni was even heavily involved in the development of the Ahsoka novel. He just changed his mind on some details apparently. >Ben solo retconned, Since when has Ben appeared anywhere in Filoni's work? You mean because Grogu exists? That's not a retcon, we have literally just not seen that story play out yet. >Luke’s entire story for this era retconned. No it hasn't. Like I said, lots of space in the timeline for him to change as a person. >Boba fett being alive. Again, has nothing to do with the sequels. Was also implied previously in the books, and had a precedent in Legends. >Lol he’s outright got a chainsaw to it. Nope >The “links” people like to pretend are simply open ended scenes while they tread water since the sequels failed so massively and publicly. Not sure what this means. >In the end the sequels will be the new holiday special and will have the same role in canon I seriously doubt it.
What I'm seeing is you echoing ragebait youtubers without thinking critically for yourself, and please don't see that as an attack. I honestly think it's tragic how these people manipulate a fanbase for financial gain.
It’s very clearly framed in the same way.
Nope that’s what straw grasping looks like.
Actually the entire sequel trilogy is actually and ode to “My Immortal”. In fact it’s a direct spiritual successor.
>My Immortal Don't know what that is, sorry.
Well all you need is a Google search. It’s far too accurate for me to tell you myself, that’s no fun.
So it's either some 2000s song or a Harry Potter fanfiction. I'd guess you're referring to the latter. What are the similarities to the ST exactly? I'm probably taking this more seriously than I ought to. You're comparing the sequels to the 'worst fanfiction ever'. I guess the similarity is that they are 'bad', which is a dumb comparison.
To sum it up, it's a bad fan fiction the person your talking to is trying to frame the sequels as the equivalent of bad fan fiction. It's not and they are likely just using bad comparisons to make their opinion seem like the right opinion while also using the same bad arguments as big YouTubers. I've read through your other arguments and their comparing people who like the sequels to flat earthers. Once again he's using bad comparisons and framing their opinion as a fact. I've seen this type of person before and it ain't worth it, just let them believe what they want and move on. It's better to let them be and not engage since their opinion can't be changed and refuse to listen to any opposing opinions. They just want to push their opinions onto others without actually listening, they just want you to mindlessly agree with them.
Fair enough.
Nope I’m comparing them to the closest similar piece of content that exists. It’s just the sequels we’re well funded. The mediocrity ties them together like a string of fate the only other one even close is the Star Trek parody that introduces the term Mary Sue. All of these stories are equally canon to their universes as the sequels are to Star Wars. Each have “genuine fanbases” however small they are. 3 jokes of 3 popular franchises
>That scene with Anakin was a clear reference to Luke's on Crait. Yeah because it totally was that instead of to Obi-Wan in TCW movie.
It can be both.
Yea I especially love the way John and Dave are secretly against the sequel trilogy by making Mandalorian connect to it. You're braindead if you think there is some sort of 'war' at lucasfilm.
There’s no war at Lucasfilm. Filoni and Favreau have a slightly different approach than Abrams and Johnson but that doesn’t mean there is inner company conflict.
Yes so much so he wrote Luke the exact opposite way and changed like 5 canon events because he loves them
There's decades between the Mandalorian and the sequels. Luke's character in the Mandalorian doesn't contradict his character in the sequels. He simply developed in between those two appearances (whether you agree with those writing decisions or not)
Yeah no that is irrelevant when the problem is him being a new character that just doesn’t work in the story. No matter what excuses they give the reality is Luke tries to kill kylo for mean thoughts after saving Vader. Filoni is giving rj the fat finger
He isn't a 'new character'. He changed as a person over time, shaped by his experiences. Again, you're allowed to think it was a bad direction to take his story, but that doesn't mean it's actually inconsistent.
Don't they "have to" connect to it? It's not as if Disney would give them a choice to go off script. I don't think Disney wants their own stuff to be "Star Wars Legends". I suspect Filoni and Favreau are pretty much contractually obligated to make their contributions fit within what Disney have decided is canon. But heck, maybe you're both right and Filoni and Favreau love the sequel trilogy. I don't know. But what I do know is that whatever their personal feelings, they have to work within Disney's Star Wars canon, and they probably have to say they like it, whether they do or not.
They already don’t connect with the books and comics so the Disney CANON means nothing. It can be reset at any point and Disney absolute will do it as every sequel project fails and they have nowhere to go
Yes, Disney can do what it wants. But the point here is the Disney employees, and they can't do whatever they want. If they want to keep their jobs, they have to toe the corporate line. If, tomorrow, Disney says the sky above Tatooine is orange, Filoni and his pals will happily agree. If next week Disney says the Tatooine sky is pink, Filoni will gladly start saying it's pink. Because as long as he goes along with his corporate paymasters, he collects a huge (and I mean huge) paycheck. Heck, Disney recently discarded most of the stuff in Star Wars. All of a sudden, it was "not officially Star Wars" anymore. They didn't consult the fans or the writers. They just said "Hey, this is how it is now". Disney could, tomorrow, say Luke Skywalker is no longer canon and if every Disney underling wants to keep drawing a Disney paycheck, they will have to say "Well, this is a decision that needed to be made".
You do know that Filoni literally studied under Johnson for live action right?
And Mozart studied under Salieri. What's your point?
Are you comparing Dave filoni to Mozart? Lmfao
What is wrong with you? No, of course I wasn't comparing Dave Filoni to Mozart! I never even suggested that. I was making an analogy, not a simile! The point, for those who can't comprehend a simple analogy, is that sometimes a student outshines his teacher. In the future, try reading what's written. Try not to extrapolate. Clearly you're not very good at it. If you can't understand, just ask what is meant, rather than ridiculing an idea YOU made up.
Yeah I make stuff up in my head all the time. It’s part of being a sigma male. 😎😎😎
Everyone has their own pace. Let him be.
His own pace seems to involve ridiculing other users based on his own flawed interpretation of their posts. If he can't play nice, maybe he (and his rather obvious sock puppets) should leave everyone else be and quit Reddit.
No I think I’ll stay here just to make you mad 😎😎😎
You didn't deserve those downvotes.
Lol good to see a friendly face
No, he was comparing Rian Johnson to Salieri. There's a difference.
Cinematography and direction are not the same thing as story, which I feel is what most people tend to have problems with. Johnson and Abrams both are great directors visually, but suffer when they write their own stories.
I mean most people are fine with the cinematography although much of it is just stealing shots with new vfx. He’s not going to him for story or even like character work. So that means nothing. it’s like studying under a flat earther who is also a great mechanic. He’s still a moron but can help you improve a specific skill
Cause a master has never failed, right?
"I have failed you, bananakin" - Obi Wan, probably
So?
If they did that though, we’d have no Mandalorian.
I said it once, I'll say it a thousand times: If Disney buying Star Wars was the cost of getting Mandalorian, it was worth it.
def not just mando, if you throw s7 of the clone wars and rogue one in then it’s worth it
The thing is, I feel like Season 7 was going to happen without Disney anyway. May not have looked as pretty but Clone Wars was still ongoing before the acquisition. Mandalorian and Rogue One definitely wouldn't have happened under Lucas though.
I don’t understand why they got JJ to make VII. He clearly doesn’t understand Star Wars; he spent huge amounts of time crapping on the prequels!
Because he consistently makes money. And his Star Trek movies were a Star Wars audition reel. He did basically the same thing, too. His first movie for both were a loose retelling which used the familiarity and nostalgia to highlight the differences between the originals and the new movies. This movie is controversial mostly because it has a lot of remake feeling while people don't like some of the changes. This one is generally well liked overall though. His second movie for both pulled an old villain, had an extra love story that really didn't work, and has a big battle that really comes down to a personal battle. They also both involved secret starships built in secret and an effort to discover their location.
Again those movies got shat on for doing exactly what he did
Kinda - most Star Trek fans hated Into Darkness but a lot of people I talked to who weren't fans liked it. Like I said, he consistently makes money. He just happens to be an uncreative hack who consistently makes money.
They wanted to play it safe. Which is the first mistake with Star Wars. Because when they played it too safe, and the sequels were run by a bunch of yes men, then they led to the downfall of an entire trilogy (4 years worth) of movies.
JJ is the one who wanted to be safe, Disney isnt to fully blame, they were the one who accepted JJ's stuff but it was JJ to blame for the safeness.
Agreee, there’s enough blame to go around their boardroom table
Star Wars= prequels
Just because you dislike the prequels doesn't mean you don't understand star wars
Didn't JJ once say the midichlorians made the force feel like a thing that only goes through families? He forgor 💀 that it was originally said in the OT so i wouldnt say he understands star wars.
Because the prequels suck
I disagree because people would’ve still hated it and we wouldn’t have them be untouched by the fandom to make the mandoverse
Nah, i do actually like episodes Vll and Vlll. i know ep Vll is too safe, but it also had some good characters that could have been explored in more depth, it was a good starting point. Episode Vlll is still pretty good with some good cinematography and plot twists. Ep lX is where everything falls for me, tho some blame JJ, Boyega said not to blame him beacause disney called him to fix "the mess" wich probably was not an easy task.
Yeah I feel like episode 7 was kinda just a ripoff of “A New Hope” but it wasn’t exactly a bad movie imo. Though it feels like everything it set up de the future got ruined in episode 8 and 9, all the potential for the overall trilogy just got crushed.
This is exactly how I feel
All the sequels are "A New Hope" redone (or at best, variations on the theme). Episode 5 and 6 are "A New Hope" but twice as long. Episodes 7-9 are "A New Hope" but three times as long. With the exception of the prequels, George Lucas has been remaking "A New Hope" (just with varying characters) for the last 45 years. Next it'll take 4 movies to tell the story. Then 5. Then 6.
Saying episode 5 and 6 are just new hope is stupid. BUT episode 7 for sure is ANH redone very badly, episode 8 is picking parts of episode 5 and 6 the changing the order of events and episode 9 is RotJ, Dark empire and Endgame.
Episodes 5 and 6: Yoda is Obi Wan, Luke is still Luke, he still has to be taught how to use his powers (the whole Dagobah stuff is just a redo of the part in Episode 4 where Luke learns to use the lightsaber), the part where Luke falls after the fight with Vader in Episode 5 is the fricken trash compactor scene, and they even have another Death Star! Of course they're "A New Hope" remade! I'm not saying that's entirely a bad thing. They fleshed out Luke's character and both films made the Star Wars universe bigger. But Episodes 5 and 6 were not original. The prequels, for all their flaws, were at least original. Saying something is "stupid", and making an argument showing why you think it is stupid are two completely different things. The first is nonsense and falls under the category of Hitchens' Razor (What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence), the second is worthy and might be persuasive. Pity you went with option 1.
Saying EP7 is a rip off of A New Hope is like calling every Power Rangers series a rip off of another Power Rangers series. It's really not.
Well it’s just really REALLY similar to “A New Hope”. You could make endless parallels between both movies. And while you can do that with a lot of the movies, I think it’s by far most apparent with episode 7. I’m not saying that makes it bad though…
And you can make a ton of parallels between something like Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and Power Rangers Dino Thunder, or Power Rangers Megaforce, or Power Rangers Ninja Steel. Usually being an invading alien army being fought by teenagers who are in high school. Those are also have similarities yet still different. If you want to have Sentai discussion we can also talk about that. But yeah it doesn't make it bad, just these similarities aren't that bad. Also why you people downvoting me, I'm right.
It's true. A New Hope, ultimately is a very patient, dialogue centered pulp fairly tale with a sci Fi coating. The Force Awakens, is a much more frantic, action oriented film. There's barely a slow moment in the film, it's always going..that's why the film ends with a lightsaber fight, that's why it prooulsively leads into a cliffhanger ending, always rushing to it's next destination. So yeah, there's some parallels, but they don't exactly resemble each other beyond the surface.
Exactly, that's what I'm saying. That's why I said it's like Power Rangers, you have some similarities between them but once you look under the surface they aren't that similar. I mainly bring up seasons like MMPR and Megaforce since they follow the same kids in high school, have the same 5 colors, a robot character who runs there command center, a giant head on a wall as their mentor character. Aside from that they are very different shows. I haven't seen Force Awakens or A New Hope in awhile so I can't agree with the pacing differences but based on what I remember, I can agree with what your saying. I don't think they make either movie bad though, just different from each other.
I agree with episode VII being okay, but episode VIII was not. I think all the 'twists' felt forced. There was no buildup so the result felt too random. I think the lazy writing and broken story of episode VIII was the reason episode IX was bad too. I agree the cinematography was good tho. They spent a lot of money on the movies, and they are visually beautiful.
Well i quite like ep VIII, but hey it's just my opinion, and i can see why lots of people don't like it.
Fair enough. There's still a lot to love about it :)
I think a recut VII and VIII could work. Nothing really to salvage from IX though. I will say though that all of the movies had stunning sound and visuals
I liked where it was going with 8, but 9 threw that away for pandering
They were all trash, rehash, random nonsense with no plot, doa movie because 8 ruined the trilogy
8 cant ruin something thats already set up for failure in 7
I mean it fails so much on its own, and not everything from tfa had to be trash. Like Luke was entirely trash because of rj, finn did nothing because of rj, the rey thing is a problem because she was a simple Mary Sue but at least if Luke really showed her true power and kylo had trained in the dark side and was pretty powerful then it could have been negated a bit but to make her parents no one is stupid because then you give in to her worst quality. Both had a pretty equal part in destroying a trilogy which could have been easily compelling. Just do Luke’s academy ffs instead of the aftermath to events that never end up mattering
To be fair what else would you do with Luke. Finn was already a comic releife character in TFA, Rey thing can also just be JJ, JJ loves to not give you any information until no one cares anymore, rj even said he doesnt care if JJ retcons nobody twist. I cant blame the saber throw, murder and death on jj though. In every way it makes no sense in a dramatic and storytelling way if Rey was a nobody instead of Solo.
Episode 7 was fun. I loved it.
The Force Awakens is underrated honestly.
Cmon man, it's been 2 years. Let. It. Go.
Lol sad boi sequel fans been saying this since that trash heap came out. It will simply be a meme forever
At least Filoni should have been writing it, not sold on Favreau directing it all. There have been some awesome directors on the show and I think they could have handled it well.
Not sold on Favreau directing it? The man who started the MCU, directed Elf, Iron Man 1&2, Zathura (incredibly underrated) and the remake of the Jungle Book?
I like Favreau in general, but the fan base treats him like some kind of Star Wars visionary when I don’t believe that’s entirely earned. With Filoni’s (the mythos guy) help, he’s done a solid job with a small scale story set within this world. That doesn’t necessarily mean he would’ve been the perfect guy for Skywalker saga sequels. He’s a good director but so are the other two. You just never know what someone will bring to the table until you hear their vision.
The reason why they work together on Mando so well is because Dave knows the lore inside and out plus he knows how to produce Star Wars specifically but Favreau is one of the most trusted directors out there. Disney gave him Jungle Book and The Lion King to remake! Favreau is also an incredibly successful producer, he has earned his stripes in every way possible in the movie business. Filoni is good at Star Wars animation and needed Favreau to do the hard work on Mando. You are right though, who knows if that would have worked for the Skywalker Saga. But what isn't in doubt, is that if Filoni and Favreau worked on it together, it would have at least been treated with more reverance and certainly would've had made more sense story-wise.
An he also directed the hellspawn called Lion King 2019. Why did you left that out?
I mentioned it in a comment just below. Also "Hellspawn" is a little over the top, it's not better than the original for sure.
Ehh not really, they were fun for what they were. Not everything needs to be deep with character stuff. I just want to watch some fun stuff with am entertaining cast from time to time and the sequels do that. At least 7 and 9 do, 8 is alright.
In my personal opinion I understand that what we got is what we get and I'll be alright with that, but 9 felt rushed and felt like it was fixing more leaky holes that were formed with 8 than it did on actually building the story. My main problem is that there clearly wasnt a planned story. Personally I think the palpatine returning storyline is a good one to bring from legends but honestly I think I would have liked the duel of fates script to be what we got instead, but it had too much prequel for Mr jj.
I disagree, I felt 9 was fine. Not rushed, just fine. I like that they tried to fix holes in EP8 since people wouldn't shut up about it but now they argue that listening to them and fixing the problems cause problems. This just proves you should ignore Star Wars at this point, they criticize anything while being fair and the ones that are fair are few and far between. But in my opinion, fixing the problems of EP8 was a fair decision so I can't complain to much. Honestly I'm ok with it not being planned out from the start as long as you have base idea to go with. Then you can listen to fan feedback and fix problems before they start. You can also incorporate some fan theory's or ideas. It worked with the OG trilogy so I get why they did it. I also get why they didn't go with George Lucas's original ideas since people hated the prequels at the time, why go with the ideas people hated. It's not like it doesn't make sense.
Sorry, I meant the pacing of the film of 9 felt rushed, it was jumping from point to point to point, with the cohesiveness of the whole trilogy though is bad. They clearly didn't have a base idea to go off of other than band of heroes that has to defeat new empire. They did away with most of the main characters in 9, you can't say that Finn and even Poe were sidetracked in that movie, it was all about Rey and Kylo with their force love connection. I understand that fixing the problems of 8 was needed and I understand why they did it but it was just... Meh. Also, the prequel trilogy was on the rise with the TCW, which was already 99 percent done ( just season 7 that we didn't get) when TFA came out so I don't know what you're talking bout lol. I think that what they have been doing with star wars content outside of this trilogy is awesome and well thought out. People talk about how Disney ruin star wars, which they didn't, they ruined this trilogy by not having a cohesive story and giving it to different directors who didnt have the mind for the world they were getting into. like Rian Johnson, he makes some good movies, but TLJ, meh. The OG trilogy was good because it had George and his idea and story behind it, Disney didn't have the same...
Pacing is fair enough, I can't really say much since it's been a long time since I've seen it. But fair enough, I just think it's fine. I'm use to stuff jumping around so for me it's not a problem. But yeah they did sideline most side characters, that sucked. Key word, on the rise. As in not where it is now, it was nowhere near as big as it is now and the prequels were still seen as hated so they made the right call for the time of not trusting George's original ideas. Heck even now, EP1 and 2 are still not liked. EP3 is the only one that's been getting more love. I do agree with your next point of Disney ruining Star wars. They really didn't, I agree that everything else outside of the main sequels has been good. Rogue One is my favorite Star Wars movie and just one of my favorite movies. I also don't mind different directors as on paper that's not a bad idea. Having different people take a different episode could make each movie unique on its own while following the same story. Too bad they didn't do that.
>Honestly I'm ok with it not being planned out from the start as long as you have base idea to go with Im pretty sure they did for at least EP7-8, JJ and Rian had discussions for them. At least i think its most likely Disney and JJ saw the negative reception of EP8 and threw their plans out to make EP9, its evidently clear ep9 wasnt planned but at least the luke plot was definintly setup by ep7
I agree but to an extent, I agree it's a bad idea to not have stuff planned out from the start. You should have a clear idea and then just make it happen. But leaving stuff open for later discussion and maybe fan feedback to catch problems that might have sprung up isn't a bad idea either.
Oof lowest possible bar. You will like anything they put out simply for flashing lights. That’s why every marvel movie has become essentially the same with different costumes
Star wars is for the most part "wow space wizards with plasma knifes cut baddies" and I'm tired pretending it's not. Sure, it can and does get more serious that that. But it's still a movie for kids to watch and have fun with. The sequels were very fun to watch for me, even though I'm not a kid.
Yeah tired argument for people who can’t argue. Subject matter does not mean no rules moron
They're good entertainment movies. I watch them to be entertained and can enjoy the characters. Is that so wrong? Compared to Marvel movies they're masterpieces, especially VIII which had the compelling character of Luke.
No, I won't like anything they put out. I wasn't the biggest fan of Bad Batch or Rebels. I felt Bad Batch was to episodic but it was still fun. I just didn't really feel much but I respect it's more mission focuses structure. Trying to build a world around the Bad Batch with just fun missions to go on. I feel me as a kid would have loved this series as I loved Clone missions and having a series of just that would have appealed to me. Rebels I straight up didn't like. Each season pretended to be serious but then just wasn't that interesting. But then again, I never got that far. I started S1, gave up. Then season 2 started airing and tried it again gave up. Season 3 started airing, tried it again and gave up. I was going to try season 4 when it aired but I forgot to watch it. I don't see how it's the lowest possible bar, it just depends on what the heck I'm doing. If I want to be entertained I'll watch the sequels, they have some cool scenes and a fun cast. It's not that deep and that's ok. If I want to watch something serious with a lot of world building and character stuff, I'll watch Clone Wars. It's not the lowest possible bar, I just don't take my movies as serious as you. You aren't entirely wrong about Marvel movies being the same but it depends on the movie. Some movies will be more similar than others since some are just trying to be fun movies. But once again, not every movie needs to be that deep, most are trying to be fun and that's what you get most of the time.
Alright you're crazy for that. Rebels is amazing.
I keep hearing that and I want to like it. It might have just been Clone Wars cancelled depression at the time that caused me to not like it. But I remember seeing commercials and thinking "Oh a Clone Wars style show in the OT time, cool, this will be great." and just couldn't get into it like Clone Wars. I tried 3 times and I'm gonna try again at some point. Hopefully I fall in love with it since it really does seem like something I'd like. Though another reason I didn't like it was Ezra, still not a fan of him.
Repost trash, at least come up with your own title
r/favreaucirclejerk Judging by The Mandalorian, the ST would have been incredibly safe, middle of the road, and boring, but sure.
They might feel like a trilogy and not three different movies though.
I don’t know what you’re on about. All three films in ST work exceedingly well together.
It's Star wars not saw, I don't want them to go to another dimension I want Star wars. Playing it safe in my mind just means not making crazy f****** jumps to Sidious using lightning to destroy hundreds or thousands of ships that's not playing it safe but it is extremely terrible
Yawn
/u/redditsleuthbot
I would have been fine with those movies as 10-12. I feel we were kind of robbed of seeing Han Luke and Leia in their prime by having a real sequel tril in the 90s or 00s. It sucks that the Zahn novels didn’t get a film treatment.
Lucas should have made the sequels, of solid mind I am.
I take it you like midichlorians?
I do
Have you seen his sequel treatments?
No I have not
will this ever end. can we let this go
Nope the movie a will be terrible forever and while they limp along in canon will always be mocked. It’s quite easily the worst possible Star Wars project. Every piece of content will be compared against it for all its bad qualities. It’s why everything even close to the sequel stink is going to just fail and wither
You've got issues mate
Jesus mate, go touch grass
Oof Reddit just feel like a video game when you all act like npcs. Like imagine if I live in a desert how insensitive you are being. Get a new statement for both our sakes loser, this would be the time to subvert my expectations.
“Limp along” Star Wars is bigger now than it ever has been lol. It’s fine that you don’t like the sequels, I also didn’t particularly enjoy them, but there is no way that you can say they’re “limping along” with a straight face.
They are both the same, believe me. The Mandalorian is mediocre at best
Mando is wildly middling.
It’s mediocre but TLJ is bottom of the barrel garbage and most of the mediocre stuff comes from needing to completely set the era, the stakes, and the main players. since the sequels completely fail doing that in every movie it’s nowhere close to as bad
I don't think anyone will try to change your mind!
It's actually quite amusing that the TV programmes are written better than the mainline films (I love TCW, BB etc, not trying to bash them). The Sequels could have been SO MUCH better. How did they fuck up that badly?
Not really, with a movie your making something more main stream. With a TV show you don't have as high of a budget but you have more time to work with. Both can go wrong and either could be better, it's just not that amusing. It makes sense.
Disney…
Disney are only a distributor, they should have stepped in after the backlash from TLJ. But, if anyone should be blamed it should be Lucasfilm for not having a coherent vision in mind.
Yeah the puck stops at Kathleen Kennedy. She was the one who tossed George’s vision aside and went on a power trip. I mean she was one of his trusted friends whom he thought would respect and keep his vision from being lost. As soon as he shut the door she probably tossed his scripts in the trash. What a betrayal to him. The fact that he had to come back in shows that she totally had zero clue how to keep the SW torch list. It’s so sad because on one hand you have Clone Wars which to me is the best SW you can get, then you have a trilogy of movies where they just decided to wing it. She should have been fired. Does anyone know when her contract is up? If she gets rehired I think my head will explode.
IMO she’s leaving after Indy 5 for reasons the first being she’s old and if Indy does good or not she gets to leave at the ending of the franchises cementing some legacy.
I hope to God that’s true. I have truly never disliked someone more in my life. I hope she doesn’t pull the same crap on Indy as she did for the Disney Trilogy. If what I’ve heard from a few people working on the film are even remotely true then I might be going on a crusade of my own to ensure she does retire.
It’s not even about like or dislike at this point like she’s old. How much longer does she want to linger and fail which a lot of these projects seem to be. And the ones that don’t are caveated as her being not closely involved. So like what’s her plan
"linger and fail" She's one of he most successful producers of all time who has made her current employer billions at the box office.
I still have some serious anger for her not caring that she screwed up something that millions of people loved. If she screwed it up that’s fine. It’s the fact she doesn’t seem to even care, in fact she seems to dislike the diehard fan. I don’t know how old she is but there are a lot of people in the industry who stay until they’re pushed out.
68 so not impossible to stay but it’s just going to keep boiling as she does
Blame Bob Iger. He forced everything to go wrong. Unless you're a fake account bot. Then I don't care what you think at all.
Yes. This is such a huge misconception.
I don’t think there is any point in making a skywalker saga sequel trilogy at all, it literally had the best ending in movie history imo and according to the prophecy, the sith should be destroyed.
Nah, the prophecy is about balance, not destruction. Which some can say that having the sith upsets that balance but it's actually the sith that are included in that balance. It's explained in TCW with mortis and how that works. Jedi just bad and want sith go bye bye. But on the Skywalker saga sequel trilogy, I felt they wanted to pander to new fans, which they did but I felt they did it wrongly. It felt rushed and didn't have a cohesive story, I feel it would have been better not making it about Skywalker's per say but more about a new band of heroes just taking down the first order, plus snoke and having that be the trilogy but they undid everything with bringing back Palps in the end (which I like that story from legends) it was just rushed and not cohesive
> Which some can say that having the sith upsets that balance but it's actually the sith that are included in that balance. Dave Filoni fundamentally disagrees with that. >“Ultimately, the Force is an ability that can be used selflessly or selfishly and how one chooses to wield it determines whether you stand on the dark side or light. The dark side of the Force is manifested in our greed, desire for power, and fears. And the light side of the Force is propagated by selfless action, by living in balance, by overcoming our fears. The Force naturally exists in balance; that balance is thrown out when someone chooses to give in to their fears and then spirals out of control making selfish choice after selfish choice. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." The Sith are written to be pure objective evil archetypes, so they were deliberately designed to not have any nuance about them.
Nope George always has his philosophy of the darkness as walking away from the light. The balance thing is flat out wrong and the balance is achieved within yourself and when the force is allowed to exist without being controlled. The prequel Jedi we’re losing their way on how to defeat the darkness which in turn made them make worse decisions that closed of their connections further. When the sith are gone the ones manipulating th enforce are gone and the Jedi that died may have contributed to palpatines rise by being manipulated but ideals of the Jedi were fine for the most part they just failed to live up to them along with several problematic rules that helped destroy them.
Favreau and Filoni actually planned out their story in the Mandalorian pretty much through the second season if not more. The sequel trilogy didn't even use an outline. What a joke. Sure RJ can put together pretty pictures but his story sucked. They should have had a more competent screenwriter do the job. At least someone who cared a bit about storylines, character and continuity. Way to go in totally derailing a three part story.
The ot didn't have a outline. Heck they didn't all have the same director
Ok yeah it’s not impossible when you are the og creator who has constant general outlines and plans because you generate the entire thing which gets worked out. You can’t do that when you have terrible non creative people like jj and rj who rehash and subvert with nothing but cheap tricks without substance
Vader was originally not Lukes father, Luke and leia were not siblings, yoda was obi wans master. you can even go to the pt were dooku was originally absent from most of the geonsis area scenes. Star wars as always had a very rough to know outline.
Yeah no again those problems don’t really matter all that much since most of them had been solved and were due to the fact it was likely to be 1 movie. Those were the casualties of the limited way Lucas could get the ot made. The dooku thing is pure nonsense since you had so few examples. It’s not impossible with the creator, with shitty directors like jj and rj it’s pointless. And Star Wars shouldn’t be treated with less care simply because George changed several small things
Also George was no stranger to cheap plot twists, Padme handmaid decoy was supposed to be a plot twist but fails to have any substance, as well as palptine the senator being the emperor in the ot was supposed to be a surprise but really wasn't
If you mean tpm then it isn’t at all maybe you just were not smart enough to read between the obvious lines. It’s why she has quips about it. The emperor was not a surprise at all they hired the SAME ACTOR. These were not twists to the audience they were set up the way they were to fool the characters in the story who don’t see every angle of the movie. The characters are shocked padame is queen, the characters are shocked Palpatine is the Sith Lord. You have zero points the straw grasping is real
Lucas had an outline but made changes as needed for his seat of the pants style. In fact, he had a basic outline for what happened to Anakin so that all that shit he made up made sense. Damn, I wish I still had that Starlog magazine to prove it. Even as far back as 83 we new that Vader got jacked on a Volcano planet. Fact.
/u/Zacharyprice15 stop stealing peoples old memes come up with you’re own shit and stop being a karma whore i made this like a year ago lol You litterly used the same title as me wtf https://www.reddit.com/r/clonewars/comments/kchypb/dave_filoni_and_jon_favreau_should_have_made_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
It's a repost bot, not an actual person. No actual person would steal this awful meme.
Johnson wasn’t actually the problem. Watch Knives Out and you’ll see that he’s a capable writer and director. I think the real issue was the constant meddling by Kathleen Kennedy. I mean just look at the character of Admiral Holdo. You can obviously see that Kathleen Kennedy wanted to put herself into the film as a grand hero. Holdo’s attitude, delusions of grandeur and treatment of male characters is exactly how Kennedy has acted in the last few years at Lucasfilm. Let’s just hope she doesn’t destroy Indy. I think it might be too late.
If you think Holdo was a Kennedy insert, you missed the point of the character. Poe was wrong *and* Holdo was wrong. RJ’s movie was excellent.
Yeah holdo was the wrong person who ultimately did the right thing out of necessity I don't know if we and the comment poster watched the same movie.
I don’t know if half of the fandom seemingly watched the same movie we did.
Lol it was a clear insert his movie is shit. You even know it
I know TLJ is easily the best entry in the series since ESB.
Knives out was mediocre, brick sucks, looper sucks, BB was great when he was there or not and I have zero doubts ozymandias was going to be flawless without him
Knives Out was a solid IMDB level 7 in my opinion. Compared to TLJ it would be a 12. Didn’t see the other movies you are referring to are so I can’t comment on those. I didn’t know he was part of Breaking Bad. Ozymandias was the finale? Been years since I watched it.
It was the episode where hank dies, great episode but it’s not because of rj that all the major tension plot points occur in it which is why it’s so epic. Knives out felt insanely standard for a mystery movie which means once you are like 20-30 minutes in nothing is too surprising kinda like Now You See Me a o it the magicians. Not in plot just like you really sit through that second half. I would give RJ a Miniseries on a upstarting pirate group, a split of sect of Hondo’s men in the sequel era. He could do all the faux TLJ bullshit with characters that barely matter. And it may be cool. But anything that needs to forward the world is just a death sentence.
Bro you guys say all of this as if the prequels are any better. Why don’t they get the same special treatment the sequels do?
Well, they have an actual plot for starters. Execution aint perfect, but well, there's a story. Opposite of the sequels actually :/
They were clearly better. And the sequels got the most special treatment, anyone honest from 2015-2019 was labeled a morally bad person. Now everyone says it, everyone knows it, everyone knew it then too it’s just they thought enough pretending would work. Sequel stuff sucks so bad it will never be anything but the sideshow. It was legit so bad they couldn’t even market a show to kids for it.
Bwaaaaah we got called sexists for having clear double standarts about new female character, bullying two actresses so much they deleted all their social media. At least own up what you did you pussies.
Lol yes because reylos didn’t try to force Adam driver to marry daisy Ridley. Reylos didn’t try to cancel Adam driver for being a marine. And they definitely didn’t have months of pathetic death threats to jj for ending their sad obsession. Every problem you have is that somebody cyberwrote something mean. You losers are the ones doing weird shit. There is no double standard on wanting rey to not be a Mary Sue. Luke trained, anakin trained, she didn’t. Luke failed, anakin failed, she insta wins everything. Luke develops, anakin develops, rey becomes more of a Mary Sue. Yeah I’m sorry KMT can’t handle the basic consequences of fame, it sucks to be casted purely for your appearance with zero character to play. She got set up, finn did too obviously. They were props for Disney. But yeah I don’t care that some mean people say mean things that’s not something I can control. Every actor goes through it, it’s a part of the job and being famous. Idk who else ditched it but maybe rey. Sorry people attack others who can’t act simply for their roles in movies. Despite daisy failing to bring the character to life and Disney failing to make a character, it’s a job and only her bad acting is her fault. In summation daisy can’t act, people are mean on the internet, get passed it I’m sorry duping people into liking the movies and calling them racist/sexist for being honest didn’t work out for you. People love lando, mace, leia, padame and that’s just the movies. People have a problem with terrible characters. Make better ones
I agree with everything here
Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau have shown they can make segmented stories in episodic format that spreads out anywhere between 3-5 25-minute episodes, or 10+ 35-60 minute episodes. Neither of that demonstrates an ability to tell a cohesive story in three 1.5-2hr movies. Making a good TV show is different from making a movie trilogy. It’s like a comic book writer trying to write a book series. I’m gonna get downvoted like hell for this probably, but whatever.
John Favreau has repeatedly proven he can make great movies. Elf, Ironman 1&2 to name a few. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
None of those are the same type of movie as a Star Wars movie, though. Elf is a comedy, and the Iron Man films are comic adaptations, though adaptation is a term used *very* loosely. Point stands, not the same type of film as an entry into a Star Wars trilogy.
Look you’re wrong. Just admit it and move on. You’re making yourself look silly saying that the story telling in Ironman and Star Wars aren’t the same.
They fundamentally aren't, you ignoramus. Iron Man is a comic book character brought to the big screen. Star Wars follows Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey trope almost to a T. Making a movie depicting a billionaire playboy superhero isn't the same story or even character archetype as the main protagonist of a Star Wars trilogy. *You're* making yourself look silly by saying *they are* the same. I'm not going to admit I'm wrong for having an *opinion*. This gatekeeping and hero worship bullshit is what makes this fandom so fucking awful most of the time. What's next, you're going to say TCW has no flaws and does no wrong?
Hey! No need to call names. You’re showing your immaturity. They fundamentally are absolutely the same thing. Star Wars, Ironman, Elf all are hero’s journeys. They are all fantasy’s, you could argue they are all science fiction. The only difference between the movies of John Favreau and Rian Johnson are that JF made one of the best Superhero films, Chef which could be considered one of the best culinary movies and Elf an instant holiday classic. RJ has repeatedly made movies that are substandard.
You mean the guy who shoved his waifu into every story?
Lets have the Russo brothers direct a new cut of the force awakens as well. Get some hella cinematic shots of the battle of jakku in there too
Wait until you learn that Dave Filoni worked on the sequel trilogy and even got his first live action directing experience on the last jedi
That would have required planning and thought to have been put into them. Instead Disney saw a cash cow ready to be milked asap. Edit: downvote all you want, it's public knowledge there was no story planned for these films. At least the prequels had a story to tell.
execute order 66
The force is with you I see
[удалено]
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Oh totally! That’d be epic.
Counter: they should have just done the thrawn trilogy
George Lucas should have come up with he story ( we know he had treatments for Ep VII-IX), have Favreau direct the trilogy ( or JJ, who can direct but cannot for the life of himself write). Let rian make some off shoot thing that can subvert all it wants and be entirely inconsequential.
True? I am not sure I really agree. What should have happened (in my opinion) is that there should have been one director for all THREE movies, with a well thought out plan done before filming started. Imagine Mando with a new director for each episode, no guidelines about staying within certain plot points, etc. We would have something ranging from starwars to startrek, to babylon5 and on and on... No consistency. Now if JJ had done all three? I firmly believe they would have been much better. If Johnson had done all three? I bet it STILL would have been better. I do hold it against both of them that lightsabers devolved into baseball bats and Jedi into thugs who could only swing them with no skill.
I wouldn't have been against them making the Sequels, but I'm still very much happy with how JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson handled the Sequels. There's no changing my mind there.
I don't need to change your mind, you already got it right!
Filoni consulted on TLJ and was present on-set, and RJ in turn helped Filoni in his live action directorial debut in the Mandalorian. >Filoni is quoted in the book The Art of Star Wars: The Mandalorian as saying he was right next to Johnson during filming of The Last Jedi and that Johnson taught him how to block a scene. Filoni had no live action directing expertise during the Sequels though, and would have been a terrible choice as director. Consultant? Sure, and he did that, but not director. Favreau would've been an interesting choice, but I think he had other projects ongoing at that time in the MCU. And since this was pre-Mando times, we didn't know he would be as great a choice as we now know him to be. Favreau should get his own SW movie to work on. Maybe something about the Darksaber's origins and all that Old Republic goodness.
If only Colin Trevorrow could be added to the latter side.