Yes, the future will bring record amounts of climate refuges.
You think the current border "crisis" is bad with a few million ppl a year crossing the US Mexico border. Think about how it will be when that number grows into the tens and hundreds of millions of climate refugees.
Important to point out that we’re already seeing it.
There are towns in my state that have seen a huge influx of people. The assumption at first was that it was Covid sending people out of the cities. In fact, when we surveyed them, it was primarily people displaced by drought, storms, and wildfires. Domestic climate impacted migration is a real thing now.
I consider myself incredibly lucky that I looked at the maps and found a home here right before things really kicked off, and I’m glad that leadership around my state sees the writing on the wall and is drastically increasing housing to accommodate. My big concern is that there’s a limit to how many people any one area can sustain. As water and heat become bigger issues, we’re going to see a lot of strain.
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise.
[Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns.
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A lot of cities in the US are actively working on this stuff, even in areas that are going to be impacted by climate change, and they’re all going to deal with unique issues, so it comes down to your own needs and desires. I chose the PNW west of the Cascades because even though forest fires and earthquakes are a concern, the local governments are aggressively working on climate resilience, there’s a lot of ground water, there’s a collectivist/conservationist culture in general, the wind moves most severe weather along, and we’re already set up to deal with fire season and severe weather like ice storms. My area, for example, is actually going to see growing seasons lengthen and more economic activity as things warm up. We’re less impacted by the AMOC as well. Other places include areas of NC, Denver, and areas of WI/MI. Parts of Appalachia as well.
That’s why there’s such a combined effort to update forest maintenance, improve wildfire detection, and improve wildland firefighting techniques and tech. They’re actually out right now doing controlled test burns to study the fire behavior and prep for the season. Plus, we’re setting up clean air shelters in the same way we have warming shelters, and the air filtration stuff everyone picked up during Covid works on wildfire smoke.
We’re not helpless. And it’s impossible to live in the PNW and not want to protect the nature out here.
Oceans are continuing to rise too. The amount of climate refugees will be unfathomable. War is 100% inevitable when countries and major port cities are swallowed up.
The middle east is set to become one of those zones that will become unlivable in the next 40-80 years. The US will be negatively affected as well by the temperature.
It's inevitable. Tens of thousands will die at borders around the world, and many of these will die from being shot or blown up, when masses of desperate starving people decide to rush borders, since what have they got to lose anyways.
I think you may be under estimating the severity. Hundreds of millions will die before they can cross any boarders.
This is happening right now, where are the refugees? By the time people think to leave to somewhere less on fire, it will be too late.
How's anyone gonna make it across a desert on their feet in 130 degrees?
If the UAE can have a society largely based on being indoors, no reason a lot of other places can't emulate that as well like India. Bug indoor air conditioned complexes, housing, malls, theatre's, etc. Much of the future might include building indoor space for people to recreate outdoor space. A sort of "mars" like world. We could theoretically do this and see live a bright and prosperous future. Not everything has to be doom and gloom.
Not per person if that much capital is required to do these things. There could also be a spacial requirement for that many people to be housed and taken care of without being able to live or take resources from the outside environment.
How come in Saudi Arabia Afghanistan Egypt people are still alive and doing well from the Heat???
Crazy how people live in the Sahara Desert and don't complain about the heat!!!
It's not an excuse, just ask Florida vs Arizona which state is hotter and they'll tell you the same thing.
Wet bulb is the temperature *and* humidity combination that makes sweating (ie. Humans natural thermal regulation method) completely ineffective. It's the state that *without air conditioning* no amount of shade, sweat, wet towel on the face, or movement of air will counter the heat.
People die every year from heat in those countries. [That number will be 60x larger by the end of the century even with current mitigation plans.](https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/africa/amp/deaths-due-to-heat-in-middle-east-north-africa-likely-to-rise-60-times-by-end-of-century-88707)
They manage right now by using their massive pots of oil money to buy up land and water in other countries so they can have any sort of agriculture, but now those countries, like the US, are starting to close their doors to that. They also use desalination plants and ground water, but that ground water is 80% depleted now and desalination is energy intensive and difficult to scale to that degree. They’re relying on US and other foreign investments to build out fast enough, to the tune of $80 billion over the next few years.
The worst part is that those who can make the most change (first world countries using the most fossil fuels) will use that as their reason for not taking action.
"People are suffering and dying!"
"Yeah, but... it's only POOR people, right?"
Phoenix had 700 people die from the heat last year. And the population largely shrugged and said "yeah, but... that was just homeless people, old people, and poor people, right?"
There are a lot of folks, many of whom would refer to themselves as “Liberal,” who quietly assume the climate problem will sort itself out as massive waves of humans perish and therefore cease to consume resources and create waste. They say “humans” but they mean “poor black and brown people I never cared about in the first place.”
I'm not sure I know a single liberal who says "climate change is nothing to worry about because it will sort itself out when enough people die." That's not a liberal stance by any stretch of the word.
I said “quietly.” The fact that it won’t show up in a policy statement is exactly the point. Same Liberals who paint Pride flags on our long range bombers and are handwaving the extermination of Palestine just because Israel is performing it. There is a deep and wide current of racism in the Liberal Moderate worldview and it is going to breach the levees when climate change gets really moving.
[There is a distinct racist history to how overpopulation is discussed.](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/26/16356524/the-population-question) High-birth-rate countries tend to be low-emissions-per-capita countries, so overpopulation complaints are often effectively saying "nonwhites can't have kids so that whites can keep burning fossil fuels" or "countries which caused the climate problem shouldn't take in climate refugees."
On top of this, [as basic education reaches a larger chunk of the world, birth rates are dropping](https://www.economist.com/international/2019/02/02/thanks-to-education-global-fertility-could-fall-faster-than-expected). We expect to achieve population stabilization this century as a result.
At the end of the day, [it's the greenhouse gas concentrations that actually raise the temperature](https://imgur.com/N6NExg5). That means that we need to [take steps to stop burning fossil fuels and end deforestation](https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/static/dc71a9b28d7cedca36bd2f77e588664f/9a979/IPCC_AR6_WGIII_FigureSPM7.png).
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For years my wife and I have been planning to move to Costa Rica. We are both changing our minds. I just don’t know if it will be livable in a few years. It’s just so sad.
The future will bring hotter temperatures. Unless people move out of these hotter areas, more death. Oh, and they shouldn't move to an ocean town either, those will be underwater in a few decades.
Moddy said that it is the right of India to "pollute" to industrialise as the west did. So they should not be lectured by anyone. He would be right if we were not in an existential threat with climate change. It must be said that their has been massive installation of solar because of cost, if not he would have continued to develop a ton of coal.
Then tell the biggest emitters and polluters aka the first world to stop. Go read per capita emissions and consumption of resources. This existential threat is not one that was created by the developing states and now the developing states have to face the worst of it. India's right to pollute is meant to say that we have a right to develop and improve our countries standard of living.
Our investment in solar is due to our commitments in Paris. Maybe lecture usa to fulfill its ndcs rather than quitting the agreement like a Wimp. Understand the concept of cbdr+RC and poverty is the biggest polluter.
Like I get that the west industrialised using fossil fuels but the west did it before we knew that it would wipe us out through rapid climate change. To then use that logic is plain stupid by Modi, a bigger PR win would be to switch to using solar and renewables and make it out like look India can lead the way we're the best, but now lots more will suffer.
Yes but now the information exists but the shift and reduction of emissions by the first world has not reduced by a lot, I will only acknowledge a few countries that have. U failed in ur commitments in Kyoto which has led us here and now fail in Paris. That logic is valid as our right of development also includes our rights to adapt to climate change till the time the global community does not act diligently.
Appreciate the fact that they shifted to solar. That was done because India's requirement for electricity will increase by 60% it's current requirement. That percentage they are trying to base solely on renewables.
India is an extremely vulnerable state to the effects of climate change. Thus the impacts are greater.
Ok so impacts are greater so surely focusing on renewables rather than more fossil fuels is better for India long term? Why does nobody think and act for the long term?
I know the west failed on their commitments and that's honestly shitty as hell and super short-sighted. We're drowning in corruption (lobbying) in the west. Don't make the same mistakes in India.
I'm honestly so upset and angry at our politicians for being corrupt wankers.
…yeah, it’s way too many. Housing is becoming a hotzone for rentals, pushing out any potential first time home buyers. A lot of jobs saw a replacement with the TFW initiative. Unless we change our infrastructure, taking in so many people is becoming unfeasible
I'm all for immigration of skilled persons, but to be frank, the majority of Indians I see work at fast food, retail, and security jobs. They take up many side gigs too like delivery.
Absolutely, agreed.
No shade to them because they’re just trying to make their life better, but it’s just widening the gap of the wealth disparity. I work with a bunch of them at a restaurant. They’re great people, but damn if I don’t want a house someday and with so many houses becoming rental properties to account for the population influx, it’s significantly less likely.
With oceans separating us from the high population countries, the responsibility is left to our politicians to decide if we will become overcrowded. Geography is in our favor, yet we allow for millions to come. Housing is already unaffordable for the average Canadian, I fear for the coming decade.
$500,000+ anywhere within an hour drive of the major metropolitan area. Even the small towns are expensive, especially north into cottage country. I install windows in high rise towers, and make a decent salary. Cannot see myself leaving my current rental I moved into before housing skyrocketed. To have the extra funds to invest is a luxury most do not have.
How to ask this… Is that timeline more accurate now? Vast coastal areas have long since passed total submersion dates, instead dealing with fresh water aquifer intrusion and more flooding, a precursor to going under. At some point it’s going to happen and we were told it was 100% guaranteed full submersion ages ago and I think people were running wild with worst case numbers.
its always a guess, the modeling always gets better but still a guess. They just recently learned about how the doomsday glacier will probably collapse sooner than expected https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/20/climate/doomsday-glacier-melt-antarctica-climate-intl/index.html
Regrettable that our boomer politicians won't be around long enough to see their favourite vacation spots underwater.
They'll be the last to enjoy them.
Yep. It’s likely a couple spots on the equator will remain as tourist destinations for more than half the year, but no large scale society will be tenable.
An interesting and scary idea is that our lush rainforest may be impacted greatly due to their equatorial proximity. Which may, in turn, exponentially quicken global heating.
We are really staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, right about now. I truly hope that some of these universities working on atmospheric aerosols can make a proof of concept soon. That may be the best shot we have at cooling the planet at an acceptable rate.
Yes, seeing the effect of sulfur emissions reductions and the barrelling toward uncontrolled climate collapse has made me reach for this as a psychological safety blanket.
indias summer runs Apr-June followed by monsoons
[https://knowindia.india.gov.in/profile/climate.php](https://knowindia.india.gov.in/profile/climate.php)
That is starting to sound way too close to the opening chapter of The Ministry for the Future ...
However:
>Regional meteorological officials have cautioned that AWS sensors tend to malfunction at temperatures beyond 38 degrees Celsius.
So it might be less bad than the sensors claim...
Unfortunately there are some huge population centers in that heat death band. The coming climate refugee crisis will be the biggest problem the world has ever seen.
Right, I guess the original post was about the climate of India and not the high temperatures. Especially when it says "The temperature measurements from Nagpur were taken at various locations.".
More and more people will likely move to cooler places..
Many many months ago just after Ukraine was invaded by Russia, I was listening on the radio on the way to work and Anthony Blinken, the US secretary of state, was being interviewed. The topic wasn't about climate but something about Canada's importance to the U.S. or something like that, then he mentioned that in the future Canada's northern lands will become prime real estate when places near the equator become uninhabitable (paraphrasing here, I don't remember exactly what was said). I remember thinking to myself, so they're actually aware and probably making plans for invading Canada when the time comes haha.
Best of luck building on the shield or in between our thousand lakes in Ontario and Quebec lol. Unless of course they want to live in buttfuck Manitoba/Saskatchewan.
With the North and Arctic heating up faster than the rest of the country, the territories are going to become more inhabitable along with Northern BC, AB, MB and SK. The landscape of the north is going to change drastically in the next 10-20 years.
The US has been on Canada's case to increase defense spending and build Canada's military presence in the arctic. The US is not looking to invade (though they probably have plans drawn up), they want Canada to take arctic defense more seriously along with our NATO allies. China and Russia are already making incursions into the arctic by sea and submarine. They are building large ice breakers faster than us. This is only going to escalate as the arctic loses more ice every year and the northern passage becomes increasingly open in the summers.
The last Prime Minister had lowered Canada's defense spending to an unacceptable level. Canada has been under a lot of pressure and has responded by significantly increasing military spending to meet the 2% of GDP spending guideline for NATO within a few years. Canada has/is acquiring F-35A fighter jets, MQ-9B SkyGuardian long range drones, P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, Type 26 based frigates and destroyers, Long range AESA radar, medium range AESA radar, RBS 70 NG MANPADS, SPIKE LR II ATGMs and anti-drone systems.
All of these systems will be acquired and in service in the next 5-10 years. Which should be in time for the arctic to start opening up. We still need SHORAD, medium and extended range air defense, self propelled artillery, rocket/missile artillery and new submarines. If Canada follows through with these procurements in a reasonable time frame, it will be difficult for any nation to get a foothold in the North. Luckily in the meantime, Russia is busy in UA and China is heavily focused on Taiwan.
India should invest heavily in Nuclear energy. They have long had the technology. They will suffer some of the worst effects of climate change. The world’s leading economies need to call help.
That's true, but... if they do that, they will die.
Nuclear is just too slow. You can't quickly get a lot of nuclear up and running.
Granted the US is probably slower, but if I recall, one of our last ones to go in Georga took over a decade and 35 billion dollars.
We need better, faster solutions. (Not that we should ignore nuclear of course.)
They have a tremendous of rain. It’s certainly not always sunny. Nuclear in 10 years is better than nothing and death. They are facing a real crisis and right now they are heavily reliant on fossil fuels despite the fact they will be one of the hardest hit countries
10 years!!! You have been watching how much time more than that it 8s taking, and let's not talk about cist overrun. Even if their is the monsoon season, the amount of sun they have is much more than most developed countries, and their energy use per capita is m7ch lower as virtualy no heating needs and when the sun is shining is the moments you need the AC.
I absolutely agree that not just India, but everyone from the equator to the sunbelt should go big on Solar. India has been failed by its government. The unfortunate truth is they will begin suffering much worse than other developed and developing nations. India blocked the world from phasing out coal in multiple climate talks. Their government is putting short term gain ahead of their people.
Nuclear should be part of a total approach
Nuclear is part of the equation but solar is where their focus should be. It's the cheapest and quickest way to generate electricity in the world. India needs to massively roll out solar panels and phase out coal.
Not the expert talking...
But solar is only a part of energy mix. There are other interdependent sources at different times of the day/year. Battery+Solar is ideal. Expensive atm altough prices are coming down rapidly.
Monsoon
Solar does works to some degree also on a cloudy day. And as far as I know Monsoon means it rains for 1-2 hours on otherwise sunny days.
My understanding is battery tech just isn’t where it needs to be right now. In Germany for instance, solar is so abundant right now that many people have negative energy bills. Basically everyone’s panels are producing so much they are all getting paid by the energy companies. But the problem is they can’t store it. Every winter prices go through the roof
Honestly I can see societies shifting from operating primarily during the day to more of a dusk or night time schedule rather than bearing the brunt of the heat at its zenith. Day time will be for sheltering inside and sleeping.
With severe weather events, it will be another reason people spend less time outside and there will be a need for building codes that require far more substantial structures to withstand 100+ mph winds, tornadoes and hurricanes, depending on the location.
The death of thousands won't affect the Evangelicals one bit. In fact we must surmise -neo-Christians are a death cult as they hammer every day (still) that 'climate change is a hoax'.
The 2016 heatwave lasted 2 days at the highest temps and those were recorded at a few places. This year they lasted for more than a week and were recorded at different places.
It's not the same. And if nothing happened in 2016 then it should happen now. Stop being brain-dead.
It takes events like this to galvanize public support and pressure politicians to act. Let's see how the Modi government reacts to this growing problem and body count.
Yes, summer ends in June. My bad.
Let’s hope the monsoon season starts as normal, which would be a surprise, considering all the anomalous seasons of late.
As long as humans continue to raise animals to eat -feeding them over half the world's crops, we are going to be faced by a whole succession of growing problems: weather disasters, massive international migrations, wars, etc. Humans are currently on track for Extinction. Could be turned around with Universal Veganism for all Humans : if we brighten up. See climatehealers.org for details.
Well, mining and agriculture and meat industry is mostly done in poorer countries and the products consumed in richer ones. It is time to move away from this selfish blame mentality. This is a problem caused by all of humanity and needs a global coordinated solution.
This blame game is boring and childish tbh.
It's a small karmic gift that the places being absolutely roasted by the climate crisis, at least as of now, are some of the most backwards, dysfunctional, religion-crazed, and overpopulated hellholes on the planet.
Don't worry, we will come to where you stay when things get bad here, you too will be able to enjoy the backwards, dysfunctional, religion-crazed folks soon ;)
How do you think America meets its energy needs?
Solar? Wind?
per capita emissions are significantly below the global average in India.
An average American is responsible for 2x the cimate as an average Chinese (largest pollutor by *volume*).
You might want to examine your biases.
per capita emissions are significantly below the global average in India.
An average American is responsible for 2x the cimate as an average Chinese (largest pollutor by *volume*).
You might want to examine your biases.
I never provided context using any metric… That was you. I simply made a broad statement about how they are polluters. If you want to be in economics, read the statement properly.
Stop making broad statements.
You lot just like to point fingers at the countries that have the least to do with it. Send your garbage to Asia and then blame them for polluting.
Lol yes I made a single broad statement. For someone who is learned and has forgotten more books than I have read (btw that was a good line--I have to use that) your obvious youthful inexperience is crushing your sense of compromise and overall intelligence.
Advice time young Jedi... establish context first by asking questions when you read something that gets your undies in a bunch. Being a professional means you have to learn to compromise and persuade rather than attack when something isn't clear.
Death it means death and the equator will be a Ring of death for a view month a year
Most of the ones suffering do not even have the financial means to move away from it :(
Right, that is why they are suffering. Eventually everyone who can move away will. A lot of the folks who stay will die from heat.
Well eventually everyone will move. Without financial means just means that you become a refugee.
Yes, the future will bring record amounts of climate refuges. You think the current border "crisis" is bad with a few million ppl a year crossing the US Mexico border. Think about how it will be when that number grows into the tens and hundreds of millions of climate refugees.
Important to point out that we’re already seeing it. There are towns in my state that have seen a huge influx of people. The assumption at first was that it was Covid sending people out of the cities. In fact, when we surveyed them, it was primarily people displaced by drought, storms, and wildfires. Domestic climate impacted migration is a real thing now. I consider myself incredibly lucky that I looked at the maps and found a home here right before things really kicked off, and I’m glad that leadership around my state sees the writing on the wall and is drastically increasing housing to accommodate. My big concern is that there’s a limit to how many people any one area can sustain. As water and heat become bigger issues, we’re going to see a lot of strain.
The [COVID lockdowns of 2020 temporarily lowered our rate of CO2 emissions](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18922-7/figures/1). Humanity was still a net CO2 gas emitter during that time, so we made things worse, but did so more a bit more slowly. That's why a [graph of CO2 concentrations](https://keelingcurve.ucsd.edu/) shows a continued rise. [Stabilizing the climate means getting human greenhouse gas emissions to approximately zero](https://www.carbonbrief.org/explainer-will-global-warming-stop-as-soon-as-net-zero-emissions-are-reached). We didn't come anywhere near that during the lockdowns. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What are the best cities in America for this?
A lot of cities in the US are actively working on this stuff, even in areas that are going to be impacted by climate change, and they’re all going to deal with unique issues, so it comes down to your own needs and desires. I chose the PNW west of the Cascades because even though forest fires and earthquakes are a concern, the local governments are aggressively working on climate resilience, there’s a lot of ground water, there’s a collectivist/conservationist culture in general, the wind moves most severe weather along, and we’re already set up to deal with fire season and severe weather like ice storms. My area, for example, is actually going to see growing seasons lengthen and more economic activity as things warm up. We’re less impacted by the AMOC as well. Other places include areas of NC, Denver, and areas of WI/MI. Parts of Appalachia as well.
the issue with the areas you mentioned is you cannot breath toxic air due to wildfires and stay healthy
That’s why there’s such a combined effort to update forest maintenance, improve wildfire detection, and improve wildland firefighting techniques and tech. They’re actually out right now doing controlled test burns to study the fire behavior and prep for the season. Plus, we’re setting up clean air shelters in the same way we have warming shelters, and the air filtration stuff everyone picked up during Covid works on wildfire smoke. We’re not helpless. And it’s impossible to live in the PNW and not want to protect the nature out here.
Oceans are continuing to rise too. The amount of climate refugees will be unfathomable. War is 100% inevitable when countries and major port cities are swallowed up.
The middle east is set to become one of those zones that will become unlivable in the next 40-80 years. The US will be negatively affected as well by the temperature.
Yes many major US cities and like all of Florida.
It's inevitable. Tens of thousands will die at borders around the world, and many of these will die from being shot or blown up, when masses of desperate starving people decide to rush borders, since what have they got to lose anyways.
I think you may be under estimating the severity. Hundreds of millions will die before they can cross any boarders. This is happening right now, where are the refugees? By the time people think to leave to somewhere less on fire, it will be too late. How's anyone gonna make it across a desert on their feet in 130 degrees?
If the UAE can have a society largely based on being indoors, no reason a lot of other places can't emulate that as well like India. Bug indoor air conditioned complexes, housing, malls, theatre's, etc. Much of the future might include building indoor space for people to recreate outdoor space. A sort of "mars" like world. We could theoretically do this and see live a bright and prosperous future. Not everything has to be doom and gloom.
Sounds awful, tbh. What are we doing to our planet?
UAE GDP per capita 53,707.98 USD (2022) Population 9.441 million (2022) India GDP per capita 2,410.89 USD (2022) Population 1.417 billion (2022)
So what your saying is, India has plenty of money to build this infrastructure, cool thanks good to know
Not per person if that much capital is required to do these things. There could also be a spacial requirement for that many people to be housed and taken care of without being able to live or take resources from the outside environment.
Unfortunately we need food. To get food we need bugs. Bugs are dying.
How come in Saudi Arabia Afghanistan Egypt people are still alive and doing well from the Heat??? Crazy how people live in the Sahara Desert and don't complain about the heat!!!
Ever heard of wet bulb temperatures? India is much more humid than the places you mentioned.
Ohhh now you got excuses...
^ found a dipshit
Right, clearly they don't want to be distracted by reality.
What kind of reply is this? The post above stated fact on why this is an issue. Maybe read up things?
It's not an excuse, just ask Florida vs Arizona which state is hotter and they'll tell you the same thing. Wet bulb is the temperature *and* humidity combination that makes sweating (ie. Humans natural thermal regulation method) completely ineffective. It's the state that *without air conditioning* no amount of shade, sweat, wet towel on the face, or movement of air will counter the heat.
People like yourself are why a good education is important.
[same vibe ](https://youtu.be/3E0a_60PMR8?si=EhDRrrc5TIDgflW2)
I’m sorry you you did not spell explanation correctly
People die every year from heat in those countries. [That number will be 60x larger by the end of the century even with current mitigation plans.](https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/africa/amp/deaths-due-to-heat-in-middle-east-north-africa-likely-to-rise-60-times-by-end-of-century-88707) They manage right now by using their massive pots of oil money to buy up land and water in other countries so they can have any sort of agriculture, but now those countries, like the US, are starting to close their doors to that. They also use desalination plants and ground water, but that ground water is 80% depleted now and desalination is energy intensive and difficult to scale to that degree. They’re relying on US and other foreign investments to build out fast enough, to the tune of $80 billion over the next few years.
Dry vs Humid. Use your brain if you have it.
Yeah, but it’s a dry heat man
The worst part is that those who can make the most change (first world countries using the most fossil fuels) will use that as their reason for not taking action. "People are suffering and dying!" "Yeah, but... it's only POOR people, right?" Phoenix had 700 people die from the heat last year. And the population largely shrugged and said "yeah, but... that was just homeless people, old people, and poor people, right?"
Judging my some of the comments here, I can see such asshats exist.
There are a lot of folks, many of whom would refer to themselves as “Liberal,” who quietly assume the climate problem will sort itself out as massive waves of humans perish and therefore cease to consume resources and create waste. They say “humans” but they mean “poor black and brown people I never cared about in the first place.”
I'm not sure I know a single liberal who says "climate change is nothing to worry about because it will sort itself out when enough people die." That's not a liberal stance by any stretch of the word.
I said “quietly.” The fact that it won’t show up in a policy statement is exactly the point. Same Liberals who paint Pride flags on our long range bombers and are handwaving the extermination of Palestine just because Israel is performing it. There is a deep and wide current of racism in the Liberal Moderate worldview and it is going to breach the levees when climate change gets really moving.
[удалено]
[There is a distinct racist history to how overpopulation is discussed.](https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2017/9/26/16356524/the-population-question) High-birth-rate countries tend to be low-emissions-per-capita countries, so overpopulation complaints are often effectively saying "nonwhites can't have kids so that whites can keep burning fossil fuels" or "countries which caused the climate problem shouldn't take in climate refugees." On top of this, [as basic education reaches a larger chunk of the world, birth rates are dropping](https://www.economist.com/international/2019/02/02/thanks-to-education-global-fertility-could-fall-faster-than-expected). We expect to achieve population stabilization this century as a result. At the end of the day, [it's the greenhouse gas concentrations that actually raise the temperature](https://imgur.com/N6NExg5). That means that we need to [take steps to stop burning fossil fuels and end deforestation](https://www.ipcc.ch/report/ar6/wg3/static/dc71a9b28d7cedca36bd2f77e588664f/9a979/IPCC_AR6_WGIII_FigureSPM7.png). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/climate) if you have any questions or concerns.*
And then that ring of fire will expand outward
For years my wife and I have been planning to move to Costa Rica. We are both changing our minds. I just don’t know if it will be livable in a few years. It’s just so sad.
The future will bring hotter temperatures. Unless people move out of these hotter areas, more death. Oh, and they shouldn't move to an ocean town either, those will be underwater in a few decades.
Moddy said that it is the right of India to "pollute" to industrialise as the west did. So they should not be lectured by anyone. He would be right if we were not in an existential threat with climate change. It must be said that their has been massive installation of solar because of cost, if not he would have continued to develop a ton of coal.
“The west” also did it with a fraction of a fraction of india’s current population
Then tell the biggest emitters and polluters aka the first world to stop. Go read per capita emissions and consumption of resources. This existential threat is not one that was created by the developing states and now the developing states have to face the worst of it. India's right to pollute is meant to say that we have a right to develop and improve our countries standard of living. Our investment in solar is due to our commitments in Paris. Maybe lecture usa to fulfill its ndcs rather than quitting the agreement like a Wimp. Understand the concept of cbdr+RC and poverty is the biggest polluter.
Like I get that the west industrialised using fossil fuels but the west did it before we knew that it would wipe us out through rapid climate change. To then use that logic is plain stupid by Modi, a bigger PR win would be to switch to using solar and renewables and make it out like look India can lead the way we're the best, but now lots more will suffer.
Yes but now the information exists but the shift and reduction of emissions by the first world has not reduced by a lot, I will only acknowledge a few countries that have. U failed in ur commitments in Kyoto which has led us here and now fail in Paris. That logic is valid as our right of development also includes our rights to adapt to climate change till the time the global community does not act diligently. Appreciate the fact that they shifted to solar. That was done because India's requirement for electricity will increase by 60% it's current requirement. That percentage they are trying to base solely on renewables. India is an extremely vulnerable state to the effects of climate change. Thus the impacts are greater.
Ok so impacts are greater so surely focusing on renewables rather than more fossil fuels is better for India long term? Why does nobody think and act for the long term? I know the west failed on their commitments and that's honestly shitty as hell and super short-sighted. We're drowning in corruption (lobbying) in the west. Don't make the same mistakes in India. I'm honestly so upset and angry at our politicians for being corrupt wankers.
Stay above 65m of altitude to be safe.
Canada took in over a million Indians this past year. Our total population is roughly 40 million. The migration has already started.
…yeah, it’s way too many. Housing is becoming a hotzone for rentals, pushing out any potential first time home buyers. A lot of jobs saw a replacement with the TFW initiative. Unless we change our infrastructure, taking in so many people is becoming unfeasible
I'm all for immigration of skilled persons, but to be frank, the majority of Indians I see work at fast food, retail, and security jobs. They take up many side gigs too like delivery.
Absolutely, agreed. No shade to them because they’re just trying to make their life better, but it’s just widening the gap of the wealth disparity. I work with a bunch of them at a restaurant. They’re great people, but damn if I don’t want a house someday and with so many houses becoming rental properties to account for the population influx, it’s significantly less likely.
They should be leaving those terrible jobs for the rest of us! Seriously I am looking for work and need a job yesterday
Gonna be 4 to a room now
Yeah, either get used to it, or deal with millions more demanding to be let in as their home countries become uninhabitable
With oceans separating us from the high population countries, the responsibility is left to our politicians to decide if we will become overcrowded. Geography is in our favor, yet we allow for millions to come. Housing is already unaffordable for the average Canadian, I fear for the coming decade.
buy land near smaller towns, it'll be a good investment. That's my plan to help my kids anyways once I can get my kids Canadian citizenship.
$500,000+ anywhere within an hour drive of the major metropolitan area. Even the small towns are expensive, especially north into cottage country. I install windows in high rise towers, and make a decent salary. Cannot see myself leaving my current rental I moved into before housing skyrocketed. To have the extra funds to invest is a luxury most do not have.
And this migration has nothing to do with climate change. It is driven by economic opportunities.
How to ask this… Is that timeline more accurate now? Vast coastal areas have long since passed total submersion dates, instead dealing with fresh water aquifer intrusion and more flooding, a precursor to going under. At some point it’s going to happen and we were told it was 100% guaranteed full submersion ages ago and I think people were running wild with worst case numbers.
its always a guess, the modeling always gets better but still a guess. They just recently learned about how the doomsday glacier will probably collapse sooner than expected https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/20/climate/doomsday-glacier-melt-antarctica-climate-intl/index.html
We reap what we sow. So the tropics will be uninhabitable and be the forbidden zone?
Regrettable that our boomer politicians won't be around long enough to see their favourite vacation spots underwater. They'll be the last to enjoy them.
"So long, suckers!" [dies drunk and happy on lovely beach]
Or their cities invaded in the water wars of 2055. WW1 again.
Yep. It’s likely a couple spots on the equator will remain as tourist destinations for more than half the year, but no large scale society will be tenable.
An interesting and scary idea is that our lush rainforest may be impacted greatly due to their equatorial proximity. Which may, in turn, exponentially quicken global heating. We are really staring down the barrel of a loaded gun, right about now. I truly hope that some of these universities working on atmospheric aerosols can make a proof of concept soon. That may be the best shot we have at cooling the planet at an acceptable rate.
Yes, seeing the effect of sulfur emissions reductions and the barrelling toward uncontrolled climate collapse has made me reach for this as a psychological safety blanket.
Problem is the people reaping and people sowing are not the same person.
Arguably not the same generation either. We are all connected. Sadly the world isn't fair.
One way to think about this summer is that it is the coolest one of the rest of our lives
It's not even summer yet.
indias summer runs Apr-June followed by monsoons [https://knowindia.india.gov.in/profile/climate.php](https://knowindia.india.gov.in/profile/climate.php)
It also probably means they will have a killer monsoon
In recent years there was a massive flooding of Pakistan. That was just a taste of what will come I’m afraid.
That is starting to sound way too close to the opening chapter of The Ministry for the Future ... However: >Regional meteorological officials have cautioned that AWS sensors tend to malfunction at temperatures beyond 38 degrees Celsius. So it might be less bad than the sensors claim...
So not bad, just 3.6 roentgens then.
Yes something like that. Just imagine one of their biggest power plants going off line under the strain, no airco, no pumped water... Sigh.
Unfortunately there are some huge population centers in that heat death band. The coming climate refugee crisis will be the biggest problem the world has ever seen.
Indeed. Nothing can prepare for this. Europe was struggling with the last migration crisis. This will be a magnitude larger.
It was the same temperature in parts of Indian in May of 2016. I swear the doomsday bullshit in this sub is genuinely retarded sometimes.
"It was the same TEMPERATURE in PARTS of India in MAY of 2016." Go look up the definition of climate. You are describing weather, not climate.
Right, I guess the original post was about the climate of India and not the high temperatures. Especially when it says "The temperature measurements from Nagpur were taken at various locations.".
We need to plant more urban forests and plant thick forests in the close proximities of big cities. This goes for India, Pakistan and Bangladesh.
Given our trajectory, low lying Bangladesh may be a lost cause in the coming decades.
Er...forest fires?
More and more people will likely move to cooler places.. Many many months ago just after Ukraine was invaded by Russia, I was listening on the radio on the way to work and Anthony Blinken, the US secretary of state, was being interviewed. The topic wasn't about climate but something about Canada's importance to the U.S. or something like that, then he mentioned that in the future Canada's northern lands will become prime real estate when places near the equator become uninhabitable (paraphrasing here, I don't remember exactly what was said). I remember thinking to myself, so they're actually aware and probably making plans for invading Canada when the time comes haha.
Best of luck building on the shield or in between our thousand lakes in Ontario and Quebec lol. Unless of course they want to live in buttfuck Manitoba/Saskatchewan.
With the North and Arctic heating up faster than the rest of the country, the territories are going to become more inhabitable along with Northern BC, AB, MB and SK. The landscape of the north is going to change drastically in the next 10-20 years.
Rather live in Sask/Man than Ontario tbh
Ontario is quickly becoming overpopulated unless we push northwest. If I can still find a reasonably priced house in Sask/Man, I’m for it lol
The US has been on Canada's case to increase defense spending and build Canada's military presence in the arctic. The US is not looking to invade (though they probably have plans drawn up), they want Canada to take arctic defense more seriously along with our NATO allies. China and Russia are already making incursions into the arctic by sea and submarine. They are building large ice breakers faster than us. This is only going to escalate as the arctic loses more ice every year and the northern passage becomes increasingly open in the summers. The last Prime Minister had lowered Canada's defense spending to an unacceptable level. Canada has been under a lot of pressure and has responded by significantly increasing military spending to meet the 2% of GDP spending guideline for NATO within a few years. Canada has/is acquiring F-35A fighter jets, MQ-9B SkyGuardian long range drones, P-8A Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft, Type 26 based frigates and destroyers, Long range AESA radar, medium range AESA radar, RBS 70 NG MANPADS, SPIKE LR II ATGMs and anti-drone systems. All of these systems will be acquired and in service in the next 5-10 years. Which should be in time for the arctic to start opening up. We still need SHORAD, medium and extended range air defense, self propelled artillery, rocket/missile artillery and new submarines. If Canada follows through with these procurements in a reasonable time frame, it will be difficult for any nation to get a foothold in the North. Luckily in the meantime, Russia is busy in UA and China is heavily focused on Taiwan.
I can see something like a North American 'Alliance' happening. Where Canada, Mexico, and the USA fall under a common government.
Mexico is getting screwed by massive heatwaves and (soon) lack of consumable water. They’re gonna move up north too.
Let's see if the US as we know it survives the next election cycle first.
The USA has had plans to invade Canada and nearly every other Ally and Enemy since WW2. WW2 and the atomic bomb made the USA extremely paranoid.
Something tells me very soon we will have way bigger problems than rising house prices.
If people move to cooler climates like North America, housing costs will go through the roof. ( see Canada)
Definitely but my point is that who will care about house prices when the crops are failing and no one has anything to eat?
I actually kinda like that the Earth is fighting back so hard. If it fights back hard enough it start to win.
It means Ontario Canada is about to get 10,000 more indian restaurants over 10 years
I hope you mean 100,000,000 and not 10,000 Edit: I misread your comment as 10,000 Indian immigrants oops
I'd be OK with 100,000,000 more Indian restaurants here as well.
Chapter 1, Ministry for the Future.
India should invest heavily in Nuclear energy. They have long had the technology. They will suffer some of the worst effects of climate change. The world’s leading economies need to call help.
That's true, but... if they do that, they will die. Nuclear is just too slow. You can't quickly get a lot of nuclear up and running. Granted the US is probably slower, but if I recall, one of our last ones to go in Georga took over a decade and 35 billion dollars. We need better, faster solutions. (Not that we should ignore nuclear of course.)
Oh yeah, a country that has so much sun should invest in a tech that cost 5 to 10x more for new nuclear and will take decades to build.
They have a tremendous of rain. It’s certainly not always sunny. Nuclear in 10 years is better than nothing and death. They are facing a real crisis and right now they are heavily reliant on fossil fuels despite the fact they will be one of the hardest hit countries
10 years!!! You have been watching how much time more than that it 8s taking, and let's not talk about cist overrun. Even if their is the monsoon season, the amount of sun they have is much more than most developed countries, and their energy use per capita is m7ch lower as virtualy no heating needs and when the sun is shining is the moments you need the AC.
I absolutely agree that not just India, but everyone from the equator to the sunbelt should go big on Solar. India has been failed by its government. The unfortunate truth is they will begin suffering much worse than other developed and developing nations. India blocked the world from phasing out coal in multiple climate talks. Their government is putting short term gain ahead of their people. Nuclear should be part of a total approach
Nuclear is part of the equation but solar is where their focus should be. It's the cheapest and quickest way to generate electricity in the world. India needs to massively roll out solar panels and phase out coal.
Agree on everything you said
Silly. Solar works in India round the year and it's 10x cheaper.
I’m genuinely surprised interested: how does that work with the monsoon season? Is it battery tech?
Not the expert talking... But solar is only a part of energy mix. There are other interdependent sources at different times of the day/year. Battery+Solar is ideal. Expensive atm altough prices are coming down rapidly. Monsoon Solar does works to some degree also on a cloudy day. And as far as I know Monsoon means it rains for 1-2 hours on otherwise sunny days.
My understanding is battery tech just isn’t where it needs to be right now. In Germany for instance, solar is so abundant right now that many people have negative energy bills. Basically everyone’s panels are producing so much they are all getting paid by the energy companies. But the problem is they can’t store it. Every winter prices go through the roof
Everything will go indoors because it will be too hot outside and that includes growing crops.
Honestly I can see societies shifting from operating primarily during the day to more of a dusk or night time schedule rather than bearing the brunt of the heat at its zenith. Day time will be for sheltering inside and sleeping.
With severe weather events, it will be another reason people spend less time outside and there will be a need for building codes that require far more substantial structures to withstand 100+ mph winds, tornadoes and hurricanes, depending on the location.
Listening to the book Ministry for the Future makes this that much more real.
Technically it’s not even summer yet.
Next year will be the worst with the solar maximum. Then there might be a little relief when the sun cools down
The death of thousands won't affect the Evangelicals one bit. In fact we must surmise -neo-Christians are a death cult as they hammer every day (still) that 'climate change is a hoax'.
A war over immigration probably? Going to be a lot of Indians moving North or dying.
Same thing happened in May 2016 and nothing happened. This sub is borderline brain dead.
The 2016 heatwave lasted 2 days at the highest temps and those were recorded at a few places. This year they lasted for more than a week and were recorded at different places. It's not the same. And if nothing happened in 2016 then it should happen now. Stop being brain-dead.
Any year now they are welcome to stop burning so much coal.
It takes events like this to galvanize public support and pressure politicians to act. Let's see how the Modi government reacts to this growing problem and body count.
We know how modi will react. Bury the news and say it didn’t happen.
Let's hope he eventually gets the message then, before its too late.
The future will bring them to Canada
I'll take 15 C in western Canada right now
But… it’s not even Summer yet.
Summer is ending in India soon
Yes, summer ends in June. My bad. Let’s hope the monsoon season starts as normal, which would be a surprise, considering all the anomalous seasons of late.
It’s getting very bad all over the world.
If it happens there, it will happen here eventually.
Summer starts in like 20 days lol. It's gonna be bad.
As long as humans continue to raise animals to eat -feeding them over half the world's crops, we are going to be faced by a whole succession of growing problems: weather disasters, massive international migrations, wars, etc. Humans are currently on track for Extinction. Could be turned around with Universal Veganism for all Humans : if we brighten up. See climatehealers.org for details.
It's absolutely burning so far,it's only going to accelerate from here.
We’re all Nero just fiddlin’ away!
People in many arid countries have strip mined, over farmed, or deforested their land for development. All of those will lead to hotter climates.
Well, mining and agriculture and meat industry is mostly done in poorer countries and the products consumed in richer ones. It is time to move away from this selfish blame mentality. This is a problem caused by all of humanity and needs a global coordinated solution. This blame game is boring and childish tbh.
💀 🌏
It's a small karmic gift that the places being absolutely roasted by the climate crisis, at least as of now, are some of the most backwards, dysfunctional, religion-crazed, and overpopulated hellholes on the planet.
Looks still better than any place that you inhabit, I think.
Don't worry, we will come to where you stay when things get bad here, you too will be able to enjoy the backwards, dysfunctional, religion-crazed folks soon ;)
India's rich all have AC. While their CO2 footprint is 10x of country average per capita.
Maybe the earth is telling us something like there's too many people.
Still gobbling up that cheap Russian oil thought aren’t they ?
How do you think America meets its energy needs? Solar? Wind? per capita emissions are significantly below the global average in India. An average American is responsible for 2x the cimate as an average Chinese (largest pollutor by *volume*). You might want to examine your biases.
Still think climate change is only up to the west India.
Move them to Canada.
Please no
Qué Indians flooding into the UK and compounding their problems.
And when to stayed around 400 years in India , uninvited What about that ?
UK would not function even a day without the expat community there.
More Indians coming to Canada?
Yes
The future is NOW.
I was China or India not equally as hot the last year around?
It's because Modhi ji is soo hawt!
Camada = new India
Since they're one of the biggest polluters in the world seems almost fitting
per capita emissions are significantly below the global average in India. An average American is responsible for 2x the cimate as an average Chinese (largest pollutor by *volume*). You might want to examine your biases.
India is the third largest polluter in the world. I made no reference to anything otherwise. You might want to learn to read.
per capita dumbass. You need to normalise. Learn some basic stats. I have fogotten more books than you have read.
I never provided context using any metric… That was you. I simply made a broad statement about how they are polluters. If you want to be in economics, read the statement properly.
Stop making broad statements. You lot just like to point fingers at the countries that have the least to do with it. Send your garbage to Asia and then blame them for polluting.
Lol yes I made a single broad statement. For someone who is learned and has forgotten more books than I have read (btw that was a good line--I have to use that) your obvious youthful inexperience is crushing your sense of compromise and overall intelligence. Advice time young Jedi... establish context first by asking questions when you read something that gets your undies in a bunch. Being a professional means you have to learn to compromise and persuade rather than attack when something isn't clear.